/Routine General/

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>>42025291
>After 4-6 months on a LP beginner program, if you are struggling to progress and have been deloading a bunch, you might wanna look into a more intermediate-y program.
>If you keep progressing by all means ride out that linear progression as much as you can

Some popular Intermediate routines are

>Texas Method
>Madcow's
for maximum strenght gainz
>PHUL.
Good trade-off between Strenght and Aesthetics
>PPL
more aesthetic's centric

Don't do brosplits. Your muscles take approximately 48 hours to regenerate after a workout. Training them once a week is a loss of potential gains, also those routines are filled with volume, due to them being 1 or 2 muscle groups per day, so strenght gains are non-existent.

This is the routine I'm currently on.
I started out 1.5yrs ago with SS, went on to GSLP and then PHUL. Finally settled on this ULPP (Upper Lower Push Pull).
This is a good routine if you dont wanna completely forget legs but also dont want to train them twice a week.

>Day 1 - Upper Power
Bench Press 531
Cable crossovers 3x8
Chinups 3xF + Pulldowns 3x8
Rows 3x6
OHP/seated DB press 3x6
BB curls 3x8
Tricep Pushdown/LTE 3x8

>Day 2 - Lower Power
Squat 531
Leg Press 3x8
Deadlift 2x5 (80% 5RM)
Leg Curl/RDL 3x8
DB Lunges 3x10 (per leg)
Abs: planks, hanging leg raises and cable oblique twists

>Day 3 - Push
Overhead Press 531
Dips 3xF
Bench 3x8
Cable crossovers 3x10
Incline DB press 3x10
Tricep pulldowns/LTE 3x10
Cable lateral raises 3x10

>Day 4 - Pull
Deadlift 531
Chinups 3xF sset Pulldowns 3x8
Rows 3x6
1arm DB rows
Rack Pulls
Facepulls 3x8
Curl variation 3x10

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>>42025357
>>42025291
If you can't afford a gym membership and want to get into bodyweight, pic related is a good program.
or check out the bodyweight general /bwg/, or r/bodyweightfitness

>>42025357

I'm trying the ULPP, do anons think it's worth my time?
Or should I do CoolCicacada's PPL, seems bretty gud

AxBxCxx

>A
Power Cleans, 5x5, ramping up to 5RM
OHP, 5x5, ramping up to 90% of 5RM
Squat, 5x5, ramping up to 80% of 5RM

>B
Power Cleans, 5x5, ramping up to 80% of 5RM
OHP, 5x5, ramping up to 5RM
Squat, 5x5, ramping up to 90% of 5RM

>C
Power Cleans, 5x5, ramping up to 90% of5RM
OHP, 5x5, ramping up to 80% of 5RM
Squat, 5x5, ramping up to 5RM

All sets of each exercise are done in a circuit

>>42026864
>no bench or DL

you're not gonna make it anon

>>42025291
Day 1
>Arms
>Wrestling
>Flexibility
>Bag work
>Core
>Cardio

Day 2
>Legs
>Stand up
>Flexibility
>Bag work
>Core
>Cardio

Day 3
>Shoulders
>Wrestling
>Movement
>Bag work
>Core
>Cardio

Day 4
>Back
>Stand up
>Flexibility
>Bag work
>Core
>Cardio

Day 5
>Chest
>Sparring
>Flexibility
>Core
>Cardio

Day 6
>Movement
>Sprints

Day 7
>Rest day

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>>42026864
and
>>42026821
pic related

>>42027027
why?
ppl is not good?

>>42025291
>If you are just getting started, a proven and popular program is always going to be better than something you came up with
Wrong. This assumes the person knows nothing and/or is aiming to be a bodybuilder from the ground up. If all you want are gains, a modified routine is fine.
>>42025357
>Don't do brosplits
Sounds like bitterness, not based on fact.
>Your muscles take approximately 48 hours to regenerate after a workout
Wrong. This varies wildly on a case by case basis. It can vary anywhere from a full day to 4 full days. Diet, genetics, intensity, christ do you even know anything?
>Training them once a week is a loss of potential gains
Again, if you are aiming to be a bodybuilder then yes, you are missing a minimal amount of potential gains on your numbers. For 90% of lifters you're talking about shit that doesn't matter.
>so strenght gains are non-existent.
>strenght
Fucking retarded, this has to be bait.

3 day PPL will get you jacked in a year. You don't need AxBxAxx bench/squat/dead, squat/dead/ohp. Honestly sometimes /ic/ you are literally the squat rack curlbros of the fitness world.

>>42027089
Both are good, pick the one that seems better for you. It will only be only worth your time if you stick to it. The most important think is if you are going to be able to go 6 times to the gym, if you stick better if you go every day, or prefer to have 3 days of rest per week...

You are the only one that can answer this question.

Just came back from a one year hiatus and started doing PHAT. I really like it and I've been getting bigger and stronger every week, even on a cut (based noob gains). However, I don't really like the idea of alternating squats and DLs, but both of them heavy on strength day feels like it's both counterproductive and a fast ticket to snap city (same deal with OHP and bench on upper body strength).

Anyone have any input?

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is this ok?

>>42026821
I have heard mixed opinions about that ppl, it doesnt have diddys for one

>>42027020
If you take away the extra activities you do, that is a brosplit, and can get better results with other programs imo

>>42027089
It's ok if you can go to the gym 6 times a week.
Any routine, unless its completely retarded, will give you gains if you keep at it, just look at buffed dudes at the gym and some exercises they do
>>42027191
I'm not super familiar with phat, but I guess yeah I would agree that going heavy both on squat and dl on the same day is not advised, unless you're a beginner, which you arent.
I'd say, heavy on one and volume/work on form the other?

>>42027369
Push/pull imbalance on squat days, and to a lesser extent deadlify days

>>42027552
>>>42027369
>Push/pull imbalance on squat days, and to a lesser extent deadlify days
how would a balanced version look like?
is it possible to get classic thicker with it?

>>42027600
adding another row/chinup to squat days
it's tricky with the deadlift days, since the dl works both back and legs.
I guess if you feel it works your back then keep dl days as they are, if it works mostly your legs add another pull

doing nSuns 3CAP program, anybody have any input or tips about it?

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Still messing around with frequency on this. Is there too much volume?

I am lifting primarily for aesthetics, strength gains are nice but not important

Sets are usually 3-4x10, and I try to superset everything to up intensity cut down on workout time

Feedback is greatly appreciated

>>42028052
Is everything twice a week? If no the frequency seems short, but if yes, then there is a respectable volume

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>>42025291
In case anyone wants Naturally Enhanced (original), I found a link to it here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/350233611/naturally-enhanced-pdf

You might have to sign up to download the PDF, but you can read it in the browser either way. I'd recommend downloading it before it gets removed though.

>>42028052
You should be hitting each muscle group a week assuming you're natty. Rework your program. If you really want to run a split routine instead of a full body routine, try PPLxPPL or ULxUL.

> Day 1: Pull
Weighted chinups 3*6-8
3-point row 3*8-10
Low row 3*10-12
EZ Bar curl 3*8-10
Cable reverse fly 3*12-15
DB curl 3*12-15
Abs

>Day 2: Legs
Bulgarian split squat 3*8-10
Hip thrust 3*8-10
Single leg press 3*10-12
Glute ham raise 3*8-10
Abs

>Day 3: Push
Swiss bar floor press 3*8-10
DB Overhead press 3*8-10
Weighted pushups 3*12-15
DB Skull crusher 3*8-10
DB Lateral raise 3*12-15
Rope pressdown 3*12-15
DB core row

I'm fairly new to this with a history of shoulder and back problems, meaning deadlifts and BB squats are off-limits for the time being. I'm trying to work around that but I'm not sure if this split is the best way to go. For the push day at least it feels I'm overworking the triceps while not really exhausting the shoulders. Also wondering whether to go for a 4-a-week instead of 3, with a lower volume. Thoughts?

>>42027369
>4x4
>4x8
when will the memes end

>>42027729
alright, will do, thank you!

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My current gslp
It's great for motivation only training 3x/week, doing only 4 exercises per day and having only 6 amrap sets per week

AxBxCxAxBxCx

A
5x10 Bench Press
5x6-12 Deadlift
3x10 Seated Rows
2x10 Pulldowns
3x10 Weighted Decline Sit-ups
3x10 Bicep Curls

B
5x10 OHP
5x8 Back Squat
3x10 Seated Rows
3x12 Dips
2x10 Pulldowns
3x10 Weighted Decline Sit-ups

C
5x10 Bench Press
5x10 Front Squats
5x10 Rows
3x10 Romanian Deadlifts
3xF Farmer's Walk
3x10 Weighted Decline Sit-ups

>>42026864
Whats wrong with you

>>42027020
If you don't take steroids, hit each muscle more often

>>42027369
I'd say it's a bit too much volume. Maybe don't take more than 3 to 5 min rest between sets. You also want to add curls and a little bit of triceps. Other than that it's great I think

>>42028052
Deadlift on leg day and far less sets. Start with 1x8. Shoulders on push day and facepulls on pull day. Frequency is ABCx and having two rest days in a row whenever you feel like it

>>42028314
You always have to adjust sets and reps. Frequency is ABCx and having two rest days in a row whenever you feel like it

>>42029021
I like it but having two rest days in a row once a while feels awesome

sup /fitizens/. I alternate between A and B. Open to adding or subtracting anything to the workouts. Keep in mind I'm a /homegym/.

Workout A:
Bench Press 3x5
Dips 3x10
Overhead Press 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x5
Pull ups 3x5

Workout B:
Back Squat 3x5
Power Clean 3x5
Deadlift 1x5-2x5

3 days a week.
core/running 2 days a week.

>>42028205
>>42028252
Natty ~1year of weight training. Alternating 2 days on 1 off and 3 on 1 off.

I've hit 1/2/2/3 so legs are lacking. I ran candito UL for a few weeks but didn't really like the program, however ppl keep recommending UL so I'll look into it again.

What would a rework for this look like?

>>42029141

Swap your Bench / OHP first & last to train both at their peak. Treat the "off" day (where the exercise comes second) as a day for lighter weight.

>>42027369
Question for anyone here, I can't do deadlifts specifically due to an injury, what could I sub them out for in order to keep up volume?

>>42029223
So start with bench and end with OHP or just swap their order? Also I thought you weren't supposed to touch the weights at all on a rest day so I just do slight bodyfit stuff like situps and shit.

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It's a PPL
It's reps x sets

A1 - Legs (focus on quad)
- Front Squat 5x5 , 85% 5RM
- Back Squat 5x3, attempting 105% 5RM on all three reps (if succeeds, it will be the new 5RM starting from the next "A1" day. Front squat RM is considered to be 75% of the Back squat RM)
- Lever 45° leg press, feet slightly high, 12x3, 90% 12RM
- Db walking lunges, 10x2, 90% 10RM
- Deadlift, 5x4, 85% 5RM

B1 - Chest, arms and shoulders (focus on middle chest, arms)
- Barbell bench press 5x4, 95% 5RM, attempting 7 reps on the last two sets. If succeeds, 5RM increases 5% starting from the next "B1" day. Close grip bench press on on "B2" increases too
- OHP 12x3, 90% 12RM
- Skull Crushers 12x3, 85% 12RM
- Db Curl 12x3, 90% 12RM
- Barbell Wrist Curl 12x1
- Barbell Reverse Wrist Curl 12x1

C1- Back
- Underhand barbell bent-over row 45° 12x3, 85% 12RM
- Lat Machine 12x3, 95% 12RM, attempting 14 reps on the last two sets. If succeeds, 12RM increases by 5% starting from the next "C1" day.
- Barbell Shrug 12x3, 90% 12RM
- Chin ups AMRAPx2
- Barbell bent arm pull over, focus on lats, 5x4 90% 5RM

A2 - Legs (focus on hams)
- Deadlift, 5x4, 95% 5RM. Attempting two more reps on the last two sets. If succeeds, 5RM increases by 5% starting from the next "A2" day.
- Back squat, 5x3, 85% 5RM
- Weighted 45-degree hyperextension 12x2, 95% 12RM
- Barbell step up 12x3, 95% 12RM

B2 - Chest, arms and shoulders (focus on shoulders, upper chest)
- Db raises 12x3, 90% 12RM
- Db OHP, standing, 12x3, 105% 12 RM (if succeeds, it will be the new 12RM starting from the next "B2" day. OHP in "B1" is increased too)
- Close grip barbell bench, 5x4, 85% 5 RM (reduced rest times)
- Dumbbell Incline Bench Press, 5x4 90% 5RM

[cont.]

>>42029331
[cont.]

C2 - Back and core
- T-bar row 12x3, 85% 12RM
- Pendlay row, 5x4 95% 5RM. Attempting two more reps on the last two sets. If succeeds, 5RM increases by 5% starting from the next "C2" day. Underhand barbell bent-over row ("C1") is increased too.
- Chin ups AMRAPx2
- Raised weighted planks, 2 minutes x2
- Hanging Straight Leg Raise AMRAP x2

Frequency is: one training every ~36 hours. If A1 is on Monday morning, then B1 is on Tuesday evening and C1 is on Thursday morning. So, while it may look like A1/B1/rest/C1/A2/rest/B2 and so on, the time span between two exercises is the same. If I hit the gym in the morning, it's 06:30-07:30. In the evening it's 21:30-22:30 (yeah not exactly 12 hours later compared to morning times)

I could have missed something while rewriting the whole thing here

>>42029331
you're overthinking this way too much

>>42029355
it's simple, it's just long to write.

>>42029331
>>42029355
seconding that. thanks for the infograph though

>>42029141
What are your goals? I'd add shrugs and DB bench/incline for accessories but the routine looks solid.

>>42029021
Too much volume, cut it in half

>>42028314
If you're new use a beginner program and progress from there

>>42027369
No

>>42027020
I guarantee you are overtraining. Opt for more specialised workouts rather than throwing a bunch of different stuff onto one day. +1 for all of the flexibility work though, not many people understand how important it is

>>42026864
What is the purpose of this. I am actually confused

>>42025357
Looks good but I'm not a huge fan of 531, to each their own. Your rep ranges are all over the place too

>>42028917
Where is your cardio?

I need to be pointed in the right direction. I need to build upper body mass, and only upper body mass. My lower body, through a mix of genetics, luck, and habit is great without me actually working it out. I've decided to start working out but I have a very specific goal. I want to add 20 lbs to my upper body as fast as possible. I'm 6'6" around 210 lean.

Should I just bench press/dips/dumb bells 5x5 5 times a week?

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>>42029392
>Should I just bench press/dips/dumb bells 5x5 5 times a week?

Guys I must know if ULPP is worth doing.
>>42025357
The routine that this anon posted.

>>42029392
>Should I just bench press/dips/dumb bells 5x5 5 times a week?
man

Anyone have a good 3 day PPL program that I can run?

>>42029429
>3 day PPL

>3 day
>PPL
pick one. then read the thread

>>42029446
REEEE fuck off normie a 3 day PPL is possible. Just put more volume in for each day.

>>42029429
push
bench
ohp
lat raises
lying triceps extensions

pull
chinups
curls
facepulls/reverse flys

legs
squat
one set deadlift
calf raises
bodyweight ab work

6x12 reps, number of sets you have to adjust ofc

>>42029446
>Push
>Pull
>Legs
Why must I run this for six days? I'll just do it for three days but with more strength focus. Lower reps and higher weights. Fock off.

>>42029459
you'll lose/not gain neuromuscular effeciency and also detrain a bit if you just hit errything once per week
best do full body 3x/week

>>42029381
Hard question considering my only real goal is just "self improvement". Would it be ok to add the shrugs and DB bench to Workout B so that I don't overload Workout A? Workout B is naturally supposed to have less exercises total b/c of Deadlift and Back squat on the same day, and how tiring power cleans are, but I feel like Workout A would become too bloated if I add both to it.

>>42029446
>>42029473
you do push, pull, legs and then have one rest day

>>42029381
531 was a godsent for me personally.
might be that any type of periodization would do the same, but after struggling so much with linear progression it felt good to gain strenght and never deload
about reps, not all exercises are the same and they all require different volume.
I'm often dubious of programs that have the same rep scheme for a big lot of exercises
I did mess up in a couple places tho

>>42029415
I'm in the third week and it's pretty good

>>42029429
>>42029473
no matter the volume you manage to cram into a day, it wont be enough.
and then you'll put so much in that in order to do all exercises, your lifts suffer

>>42029392
Just do Push Pull 6 times a week. fuck it

>>42029463
Donde esta Shrugs? 6 x 12 for bench, squats, ohp, and deadlifts too??

>>42029459
>>42029473
No. PPL is for a frequency around twice a week. "Adding more volume" won't make up for such a low frequency. Adding a "strength focus" (whatever it's supposed to mean) won't make up for frequency. You probably want a full body routine if three days a week is your max. Otherwise you want an Upper/Lower split (and variants) if you can reach a 4-times-a-week frequency. PPL "three times a week" isn't different from a brosplit. Please read the thread.

>>42029506
no shrugs. if you think you need them put them on push day
thats 6-12 reps, my bad

>>42029415
also, this routine is good for me for a variety of reasons, which basically boil down to:
>I wanna go to the gym 4 times a week, but dont wanna do two leg days due to my jeans-tearing thighs

>>42029515
Please excuse my obtuse manners you have been nothing but polite in face of all this shitposting. I'm glad that we could have a civil discussion about PPL and because of you I've decided to run ULPP. Thank you for your patience and sage advice anon. Don't let this thread die guys. It's a diamond in a pile of shit.

>>42029331
>>42029348
Missed this one, and I'm inclined to agree with >>42029355

First off, your infographic needs a source or all that effort and thought is meaningless

You also post this in a routine rate thread, leading me to believe that you are new.

If either of these are correct you need to take a step back and follow a real program

And on the off chance that I am wrong and this is the new starting strength, kudos to you for thinking of such a fucked up program

>>42029556
Any actual critic besides the "you're thinking too much"?

>>42029484
You're right to be cautious about adding too much, especially since your program denotes higher weight. Shrugs are great as a finisher so I'd put them at the end of workout B. For the incline or flat DB bench you could swap a few sets of OHP/bench because they are fairly similar

The only reason I suggested you add them is because I have found them to be incredibly helpful for bench/OHP strength

>>42029381
>If you're new use a beginner program and progress from there

All the routines from the sticky contain deadlifts and squats though. Also BB overheads which are a real pain on my shoulders. Is there something I can swap those three for in a straightforward way?

>>42029704
Alright thanks anon.

>>42029543
What this guy said, absolute diamond in the rough-esque thread.

upper lower ABxBCxx
i cycle volume and intensity each week since i'm past intermediate with my lifts 205/320/385/445 at 190 and can't improve everything each week

>1st week intensity
(main lift 5x3, rest at 3x6)

>2nd week intensity-volume
(main lift 5x5, rest at 4x8)

>3rd week volume
(main lift 5x8, rest 5x10)

>4th week deload (everything the same as wk2, but at 80%), then start again with more weight

i also rotate exercises (if first upper day started with bench, 2nd upper day will start with ohp, etc., same for lower days and squats-deads)

almost all exercises are supersetted
balanced (shoulder) vertical and horizontal pushing-pulling ratios and hamstring-quad volume ratio

>UPPER DAYS
bench/pullups (week1 - 5x3, week2 - 5x5, week3 - 5x8, etc.)
ohp/db rows (week 1 - 3x6, wk2 - 4x8, wk3 - 5x10 you get the picture)
dips or extensions/curls
laterals/facepulls
band pullaparts

>LOWER DAYS (on 2nd lower day i do deads as first exercise)
squat (week1 - 5x3, week2 - 5x5, week3 - 5x8, etc.)
deadlift variation (wk1, 1-2x3, wk2 1-2x5, wk3 1-2x8)
hyperextension / cable crunches (3x6, 4x10, 5x15 for each week)
shrugs/ ab wheel (3x6, 4x10, 5x15)

i can't really hope to increase my stats quickly, if i could get from 275x5 bench to 300x5 bench till new year, i'm golden (without going on some fullretard dirtybulk)

>>42029579
Sure

dont work front and back squat on the same day

never use leg press

dont go heavy on lunges, that's the quickest way to fuck up your glutes

stop focusing on 5rms and 12rms

OHP is not enough for shoulders, you need lateral raises with light weight for a shit ton of reps and deltoid work

planks are a meme exercise, do modified crunches

ffs stop focusing on 5 and 12rms. you can push yourself without constantly worrying about increasing your maxes. You'll have bad days where you may barely get through your workout and others where it all seems easy

If all you think about are maxes you'll burn out quicker than a fat fuck on one of those meme diets

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>>42025291
Can you have a look at it, please?

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I'd really appreciate some advice

Background information
>28 years old male
>85 kilo
>SS for 8 months
>plan was SS -> Texas Method

Issue
>Chronic Stress, sleep problems = Piss poor Recovery
>Heavy Squats and deads = hello overtraining

Solution
>Switching from powerlifting type training to more bodybuilding type training
>lower weight, more reps, no heavy compounds because this is easier on the nervous system and should be easier to revover from

Want
>Training as many days per week as possible to fill up time without training to heavy
>Cardio =hiking, mountain cykling, mountain running instead of hitting legs. Its summer and this is awesome to do.
>>Basically i need the high and the positive mood effects a workout gives (and the supposedly better sleep) without training to heavy

Possible way of doing it:
Lyle Mcdonald's upper/lower, but switching lower body day with cardio instead so it becomes
Training 5 times a week (most ideal imo): Upper/ cardio /lighter cardio or rest / Upper/ Cardio / Cardio or rest / rest
Training 4 times a week Upper/ rest / lower / rest / Upper/ cardio / rest

This will be done until recovery problems are taken care of and i can return to lifting heavy and going back to original plan.

How does this sound? This seems pretty good to me.

>>42025357
Hey anon I think that your routine has a lot of potential. Do you think you could post a official version of this routine? Like a spreadsheet or something? That way we wouldn't have to scour through archived threads and try to find this routine. If you could do this that'd would be unbelievably based and you would have the thanks of all anons on /fit/.

>>42029986
Lyle McDonald’s ‘Generic Bulking Routine

Mon: Lower
Squat: 3-4X6-8/3′ (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3′ rest)
SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3′
Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2′
Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3′
Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2′

Tue: Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3′
Row: 3-4X6-8/3′
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2′
Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5′
Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5

>>42029943
Oops, i forgot to replace Cable-Row with Facepulls on Friday. Also, Push-Ups will be progressed by increasing my angle, hopefully I'll do headstand presses some day.
Mobility work is given.

>>42029986
ZMA
M
A
>for toptier sleep
>Just buy some cheap-ass generic ZMA from Ebay
>Drink a lot of water

What's your stats btw?

>>42029896
>dont work front and back squat on the same day
I can't find a single reason not to. The first front squats are "light reps". They are not only "light", they are easier on my back.
>never use leg press
The "don't you the leg press" is a meme. It could be a good complement. I don't lock out my knees and I don't go lift one thousand plates. It's an average-effort high-reps exercise
>dont go heavy on lunges, that's the quickest way to fuck up your glutes
mmh I disagree. I wish I could actually fuck up your glutes (no homo)
>stop focusing on 5rms and 12rms
my goal is not hypertrophy and besides this, I don't see a good reason to switch, nor you are presenting me one.
>OHP is not enough for shoulders, you need lateral raises with light weight for a shit ton of reps and deltoid work
Both are there. Maybe I could add one more set hitting deltoids--- now that I re-read, I missed to include a rear-delt db exercise I actually have in my routine. Oh well
>planks are a meme exercise, do modified crunches
I disagree and no, I'm not going to do any kind of crunch. Ever. Hanging leg raises with all the possible variations or ab-wheel
>ffs stop focusing on 5 and 12rms. you can push yourself without constantly worrying about increasing your maxes.
I'm not worrying about it at all. If (and only if) I feel the last two sets "easy", then I try two more reps. On deadlifts/squats it's a little bit different, but I follow a rule called "2+2", quite standard in resistance training.

If I left out all those "effort" percentages and kept vague references to "heavy" and "light" days maybe no one would have been triggered. No, I'm not new, I took some time and effort to rewrite it down here. It's a pretty real program and there's nothing "fucked up", yet I'm open to actual critics.
As for the pic, the source you asked with witty remarks is here: Rob Faigin, NHE (it was written in the pic itself), chap. 21. It's a pic floating around /fit/ since 2012 at least, maybe I'm not that new.

>>42029986
Take up meditation to fix your sleep. Just 10 mins a day, even just in the mornings. Check out the Headspace app.

>>42030058
>I wish I could actually fuck up your glutes
*I wish I could actually fuck up my glutes
(I meant, I hardly feel anything in the gluteus any more)

>>42030051
My experience is that ZMA does not help with sleep.

Deadlifts 125kilo x5
Squat 110kilo x5
Bench 67kilo x5
OHP 50kilo x5
Power Cleans 60kilo x3

I do drink a lot of water.

>>42030078
I'll try. Thanks.

Anyone have anything to say about my routine? Its basically a upperbody hypertrophy routine done 2 times a week with 3 days of cardio lol. Should be enough to give me some development in the upper body and giving me positive mood effects and not overstressing me, which is the goal.

>>42029986
>>42030013
u gotta fix the sleep and stress stuff first, trust me. routine looks good and replacing the lower day for cardio seems like it would be highly beneficial to you.

who knows, you may enjoy it more than what you were doing before. If your end goal is to return to your current situation sans negatives you need to ensure that you don't fall into the same bad habits - overtraining and lack of sleep

good luck anon

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>>42029986
Anon, what's stressing you?

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how is this for noob 5' 7 " 118?

>>42030150
Aight! I don't think its the training it self that causes overstraining. Its other factor outside of training that is giving additional stress which makes it all to much. I'll try this new approach and see if it works. When going back to SS/Texas method i'll keep in mind of weather its the training that is to much. (it shouldn't be)

It will be fun with some variation that is for sure.

Thank you.

>>42030168
Family stuff, relationships, work, living conditions, the future. Basically there is a lot of stuff to work on. 1 year ago i was a full on NEET that NEVER left his house, i was hiding from life but now i am fixing it. Maybe its all a bit to much.

>>42029986
>Issue
>>Chronic Stress, sleep problems = Piss poor Recovery
>>Heavy Squats and deads = hello overtraining


You whiny bitch.

>>42030058
>>42030080
k buddy, we obviously have different mindsets and experience when it comes to training. what works for each person is different.

you put time and effort into this and I hope it works for you, what I see isn't congruent to any program out there so I question it.

My question to you is how long you have been running the program and why you choose if over others. Stats would be helpful as well

>>42029987
do you mean make an actual spreadsheet?
how would I share it ananamousely?

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I've been running PPL for about 4 weeks now and this is what I look like right now. Any thing I should work on? If I wanted to get more defined what routine should I switch to. I've been thinking about ULPP since it might build more mass. Honest feedback appreciated.

>>42030291
>i was hiding from life but now i am fixing it
That's good to hear. May your dreams come true.

Could use some advice on a routine for my girlfriend. She has started to come to the gym with me but doesn't really have a routine. I don't consider myself qualified to make a routine for a female. Obviously she's doing all the glute workouts, but... I don't want to make a brosplit for her. Anyone know of any good tried and true routines out there for girls?

>>42030402
Starting Strength is perfect for women. Lowbar squats and deads = dat ass and all that

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>>42030402

What do you lot think about Squat Everyday?

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>>42025291
My Candito. I also do wrist roller, ab wheel, and/or bridges at the end sometimes.

>>42030484
I mean those are all great exercises but there's absolutely no upper body in that routine. She's definitely interested in at least some upper body strength for practicality/reducing injury.
>>42030457
I agree with you but for the top tier datass you need kickbacks/bridges/hip thrust etc as well, and I dunno if that's too much volume to tack on to SS for a girl starting out.

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>>42029987
here's a cleaned up version of my spreadsheet
a couple clarifications:
-this is not even close to a perfect routine, but I feel that it's pretty great for me, for what are my personal needs and goals

-I deadlift twice a week and squat once yes, I like deadlifts and I'm trying to recover from a couple months during which I completely ignored them.
also I dont really like squats and my legs are already too big. BUT, as soon as I reach an acceptable lvl of mobility, I will slap a front squat at the end of push

-the chinups+pulldowns is because I cant do many chinups, couple pounds overweight and my legs are heavy, trying to fix that.

-rack pulls dont have reps, because I do as many as I can and after I pull I hold the bar as long as I can, they're a great trap AND grip exercise

-abs wise, I like ab wheel, bicycle crunches, planks, leg raises or anything that is in the pic related of the next post

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>>42030742
>>42029987

>>42030663
let her start with SS, and add hamstring and gl00t accessories when you and she think she can handle them

ABxABxx

A
>Bench 3x10
>Incline Press 3x10
>Dip 3x5
>Skull Crusher 3x10
>Squats 3x10
>Lying Leg Curl 3x10
>Calf Raises 3x10
>Abs exercises

B
>Deadlift 3x5
>Pullup 3x5
>Bent-over Row 3x10
>OHD 3x10
>Upright Row 3x10
>Curl 3x10
>Abs exercises

Best Upper/lower split?

>>42030742
>>42030752
Holy shit nice dude. Thank you gay retard. You should trip so that we can see who you are next thread. Also /cbt/ if possible?

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>>42030302
This routine in particular is something new, less than 5 weeks in. I'll probably suspend it between the last week of July and the last one of August, because summer (I may do some maintenance like 2/3 full body a week, maybe even callisthenics or other seaside sport)
It's not something so "strange" imho, there are three workouts in which one main lift is heavy (or pushed with a greater effort), the other one is light (or performed with a lighter effort), alternating roles and keeping each overall work out within one hour max
Stats? 182 cm, 88 kg (lower abs are still 404 not found), 5RM in OHP/Bench/Squat/Deadlift are 72 kg/116 kg/156kg/172kg
I never test 1RM directly anyway

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Can I get a rate? Main goal is trying to get stronger with a small aesthetic focus. I feel like the high volume accessories are really good at helping my work capacity for the main lifts. I've also noticed it's hard to go heavy on chinups more than once a week.
Anything I should consider adding or revising? Posting doggo as thanks
>monday
Squats Juggernaut method
Sumo/Romanian deads 5x10
Lunges 4x8
Calf raises 3xf
Dragonflags 3xf
>Tuesday
Bench Juggernaut method
Chins 3x5 weighted
Dips 3x10 weighted
Rows 4x10
Lat raises 3x15
>Thursday
Deadlifts Juggernaut method
Front squats 5x10
Lunges 4x8
Calf raises 3xf
Dragonflags 3xf
>Friday
OHP Juggernaut method
Chins 3x10 weighted
Dips 3x5 weighted
Rows 3x10
Lat raises 3x15
LTE 3X10

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My routine:

Greg Nuckols' 2x week intermediate squat program (Monday and Friday), and 1x week intermediate deadlift program (Wednesdays.

Combined with 5/3/1 just for OHP and Bench press, with them alternating as main lift/accessory (first set last, alternating) each day, so I complete a cycle in two weeks. I'm putting in joker sets as well for them. The pic explains it a bit better, but I haven't found a routine that I'd want to do when I finish where I am now

>>42030823
I dont have a good body and I would consider myself still relatively new.
I am just a nerd with a lot of free time and assburgers

>>42030372

Stick with it for longer - 4 weeks is fuck all time, go for 2-3 months then reconsider. Make sure your diet and recovery is good. If you want to get more defined then you want to lost body fat aka a caloric deficit aka cutting - you might find it easier on a higher intensity lower volume routine. Bear in mind that building more mass and getting more defined are quite tricky to do. If I were you I would bulk a bit more (not to powerlifting obese mode, just slowly and sensibly to put on some muscle) on PPL, then maybe cut on another routine if you want to switch it up for a cut. I wouldn't say cut now though, I don't think you have enough mass to really make it worth it.

>>42029050
>If you don't take steroids, hit each muscle more often

I don't take them. Uping my gym workouts makes me too tired though.

>>42029381
>I guarantee you are overtraining. Opt for more specialised workouts rather than throwing a bunch of different stuff onto one day. +1 for all of the flexibility work though, not many people understand how important it is

I don't think I am sometimes when we go hard in wrestling my CNS is fatigued and I struggle to sleep otherwise I am doing fine. Weight is constant and energy is fine too. I don't have to go to a desk job so morning training, afternoon training and night training helps a lot. (Split into three sessions)

I usually up training when a fight approaches and then take 2-3 weeks off completely. I really want to go pro in the next two years so pushing hard. Shitposting, reading about fighting and doing fighting exercises, sleeping, eating and occasionally playing CS:GO is literally all I do.

>>42030896
It seems to me you're throwing in dragonflags as a generic, low-effort exercise - which leads me to wonder if it's of any relevance.
Calf raises are the most meme exercise ever. You either have big calves thank to genetics and to your compounds, or you don't. If you don't, cycling or running outdoor (not on treadmill) is your only way out from being a calflet.
"Weighted dips"... targeting chest? Targeting triceps? Targeting shoulders? imho bodyweight dips are enough, weighted start to be dangerous. If you're targeting chest, maybe you could consider to insert incline bench (more effective on upper pecs). If you're targeting triceps, you may consider to place some skull crushers or vertical french curl. If you're targeting shoulders... you shouldn't.
Lunges happen twice. Hopefully they're not the same variant.
Rows... which kind of row?
There's not much/not enough targeting shoulders. Just OHP on Friday and some lat raise.
Weighted chins 3x5... I'd just throw bw 3x12 on Tue and 3x20 on Fri. Chances are you'd be even doing more volume there

>>42025291
Anyone have a stretching chart or something?

>>42031412
Can I get an explanation on why dragonflags are low effort? It's usually the hardest part of monday/Thursday after my main lift.
I wanted a compound to hit tris and chest and it was between dips and db bp. I personally like the feel of dips better and can do about 50lbs added for reps right now with no discomfort.
Also why no weighted chins?

>>42026995
Not beneficial for my goals.

>>42029050
Right now I'm a little bit dehydrated, if you must know.

>>42029381
Strength training with cardio benefit. Look up Bill Starr if you want more info.

A
Deadlifts 2x5 (with warmup sets)
Bench Press 3x5 (Last set is AMRAP)
T-Bar Row 3x5 (Last set is AMRAP)
Pull Ups 3x10
Dips 3x10

B
Squats 3x5
OHP 3x5 (Last set AMRAP)
T-Bar row 3x5(Last set AMRAP)
Chinups 3x10
Dips 3x10

Am I doing anything wrong? I've been lifting and following this for approx 1mth now, and while my lifts are progressing, my arms aren't developing as fast as I hope they would. Should I just be more patient anons? Any general tips would be helpful for a noob.

>>42032832
It seems to me you don't know which your goals are. That, you're very dehydrated.

>>42032837
>for a noob
Are you in your first 6 months of training?
SS or SL or ICF. Don't try anything else.
Nothing.
Else.
>but I see some progression
you're wasting your first 6 months of neuromuscolar hyperadaption (see pic in >>42030889 or get yourself a copy of SS)
And read the sticky. Thank me later

>>42032861
I am perfectly certain of what my goals are.

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im a dyel doing ss with chinups and dips

what should my progression with chin ups look like? im doing 3 sets of 8, at what point should I start adding weight? when I hit 3x12? 3x15?

>>42033099
>I'm very dehydrated.
Yes, it's pretty clear. Your routine is awful for "strength training with cardio benefit" and Bill Starr would vomit over it.
It's also pretty clear that you're coming here just to smear on our face your obtusity over such an inane circuit.
Good luck to you and take care. Drink sometimes.

>>42033139
yes

is there a good begginer routine for 5 days? most of them are of only 3 days

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>>42025291

This has been working pretty well for a while now.

>>42033198
Learn to read, I said mildly dehydrated, and even at that I was being factious. And I doubt that Bill Starr would vomit over the routine, since he's the one who wrote it.

>>42034630
facetious*

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Bodyweight vs PHUL for Aesthetic mode? Also, my routine rn

Day 1
Upper Power
Barbell Bench Press 3x5
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 3x10
Bent Over Row 3x6
Lat Pull Down 3x10
Overhead Press 2x5
Barbell Curl 2x10
Skull crusher 2x10

Day 2
Lower Power
Squat 3x5
Deadlifts 3x5
Leg Press 3x15
Leg Curl 3x10
Calf Exercise 3x15

Day 4
Upper Hypertrophy
Incline Barbell Bench Press 3x10
Flat Bench Dumbbell Flyes 3x10
Seated Cable Row 3x10
One Arm Dumbbell Row 3x10
Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3x10
Seated Incline Dumbbell Curl 3x10
Cable Tricep Extension 3x10

Day 5
Lower Hypertrophy
Front Squat 3x10
Barbell Lunge 3x10
Leg Extension 3x10
Leg Curl 3x10
Seated Calf Raise 3x10
Calf Press 3x10

Also my stats. My OHP is shit

>>42034687
Just switched as well

>>42034687
not enough back/shoulders too much chest/tris

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This is something I threw together, i'm a beginner. Any advice would be appreciated. I only have dumbbells

Volume/frequency is the natty's friend. Lift often and lots, don't sweat maxing unless you're gonna compete.

>>42025291
What's the difference between leg presses and squats? What are brosplits and why are they bad?

For a 64.5 kg 180cm skinny fat/ skelly, if I have bad proportions, e.g. wide hips etc, and want to focus more on upper body as a result, is phraks greyskull lp a good alternative to SS or SL?

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>>42032837
>>42034964
>>42034365
>If you are just getting started, a proven and popular program is always going to be better than something you came up with, save yourself the time and headaches
>If you still don't know what to do, SS, GSLP, Reg Park's, ICF, SL or any Linear Progression Strenght program based on the big 3 lifts will be ok

>>42030896
>>42031996
it's not that dragonflags are low effort in themselves, but just doing them alone is.
like with every muscle, abs need overload
6 sets a week wont achieve that
make abs an everyday separate routine, doing dragonflags on two days and that's it is not that useful
make a little 10-15 minute routine you can do at home or after your workout.
I like this chart >>42030752 to pick exercises, or just do the usual suspects: hanging leg raises, ab wheel, planks, russian twists, some crunch variation etc etc
also., weighted chins and dips are fine, just dont go crazy and watch your form, or you'll rip your joints
your program seems fine, it's an UL, I would just add some more stuff on upper days, just keep in mind that the ratio should be 2 chest, 2 back, 1 shoulders, 1+1 arms.

>>42035314
leg press is an accessory movement, doesnt target as many muscles as the squat.
brosplits are "bar" because you train every muscle once a week, even though your muscle have the recovery potential to be train up to 3-4 times a week, and instead brosplits do a shitload of volume each day, since you're just training two muscles and gotta fill the time somehow, so even strenght progression becomes difficult

>>42034687
looks like a regular PHUL, with bodyweight, unless you go complete ham, you're not gonna get the same gains as with weight lifting

>>42031569
pic

>>42030793
shoulders?

>>42035370
yes, also cardio.

>>42029381
>>>42027369
>No
could you expand a bit please?
how would it become more balanced or satisfactory?

>>42025291
This confuses me. I'm new to lifting so what does it mean by alternating? Do you do 1 set of overhead press then 1 set of bench then 1 set of overhead again to make 3? Or do you do 1 set of each 3 times?

If it's the latter, what about doing 3 sets of one then switching? Why alternate?

>>42035738
You alternate them between days.
Week 1: Mon bench, Wedn ohp, Fri bench.
Week 2: mon ohp, wedn bench, fri ohp

Is doing SL and ICF on off days fucking stupid? I feel like I'd destroy my legs

>>42036157
SS and HIIT my bad

I've been doing GSLP for quite some time and I now need to switch to an intermediate routine, hypertrophy focused.
All I'm seeing are 4/5/6 days intermediate hypertrophy routines, are there any good 3 days one, like GSLP was? Thanks.

My lower backs fucked. What can I replace squats and leg press with in the meantime before I see the dr

hey guys,i have only 45kilos,a bench,two dumbbells ,a pull up bar,and ill get a squat rack,can you recommend a routine please?

>>42034630
>I'm completely dehydrated.
Yep, it was clear.
>And I doubt that Bill Starr would vomit over the routine, since he's the one who wrote it.
No, he didn't write that shit. Fuck off.

>>42036352
read the sticky and the fucking thread.

>>42036518
is this sufficient ?
Workout A
Split Squat 3x8 (each leg)
Bench 3x8 (If you don’t have a bench do floor press)
DB Rows 3x8 (One arm on bench, back parallel to floor)
Reverse Flies 3x10
Calf raises 2x15/French Press 2x10 Superset

Workout B
Walking Lunge 3x8 (each leg)
Overhead Press 3x8
Romanian Deadlift or Straight Leg Deadlift 3x8 (Use single leg version when you max out your weight)
Lat Pulldowns or Pull/Chin ups (Once you reach 3x8 begin adding weight)
Ab work 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset

>>42036165
>>42036157
alright that makes more sense.
Sure, that's a good combo

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Just started PHUL but am recovering from a herniated disc in L5. Have tried modifying it to be a lot more lower back strength and hamstring centric. Is this good for someone in my position?

>>42035404
>shoulders?
>OHD 3x10
>Upright Row 3x10

>>42029536
>worth doing
literally what

hit a muscle twice a week, and progressively overload em, the way you set that shit up on a weekly basis doesn't matter

yes it's ok to train legs once a week, if your legs aren't sticks and you think their size is proportional to your upper body

its not fkn rocket science

>>42029943
this is not a routine, it's an exercise layout.
routine is progression scheme + exercise layout + deload plan

how are you gonna progress week to week? you can't lift that shit for the same weight, sets and reps every time you hit the gym. i mean you can but it will take you nowhere

>>42036206
take any of those 4/5/6 days routines (the good, proven ones), count the number of reps/sets per muscle group, and then spread that shit over 3 days, or you can spread a 4 day plan over a bigger span so let's say the 4 day plan is U/L twice a week, just do U/L/U week one, then L/U/L week two, etc.

remember anons, some guy just like you sat down and wrote down the exercises, sets/reps schemes and progression and slapped a cool name on it and now it's "their program". they also learned from someone how to set that shit up so you should do a little research yourself

if you're too lazy to do that then read the first paragraph

>>42036855
what does "D" in OHD stand for? Over Head Dip? Dick?

>>42029896
>>42029896

>that's the quickest way to fuck up your glutes
literally the biggest and strongest muscle group in body
you're not tearing glutes unless you pull 7pl8+

What are my options when I stall on The Press on SS?

The most obvious is to buy microplates.

I've seen some suggestions to increase the weight one set at a time,
i.e. 100 1x5 + 95 2x5, then 100 2x5 + 95 1x5, then 100 3x5.
or similar for 5x5, 1x5+4x5, 2x5+3x5, 3x5+2x5 etc.

Rippetoe himself recently advocated for alternating 5x5 and 5x3,
i.e. increase weight, do 5x3, then next time do the same weight 5x5, then repeat
100 5x3, then 100 5x5, then 105 5x3, then 105 5x5.

What do you think is the best option?

>a) continue with 3x5, increase weight one set at a time
>b) transition to 5x5, increase weight one set at a time
>c) transition to 5x3/5x5

For option b), I would add 1 set to The Press the next 2 times, with the same weight (i.e. 100 4x5, then 100 5x5), and after that proceed with the slower increases (105 1x5 + 100 4x5, 105 2x5 + 100 3x5, etc)

For c), I'm not sure how I would transition. I guess doing the same weight I just did 3x5 for 5x3 next time and then 5x5 would be an option. But it seems like still a pretty fast progression, not sure how long I could keep that up.

>>42037467
d) fuck what rippletits says, and add ohp 3-5x8-15 on a second day, so that you work it twice a week

you become stronger at a lift when you do it more oftenm through different rep schemes

also,
>listening to a "strength coach" with a bsc in geology
>sprouted from crosshit
>mediocre strength in his prime

eh

>>42037467
SS does wonders for newbies and if it's an excellent guide for newcomers. It's also a program you shouldn't keep for too long.

Back to shoulders. Shoulders are traversed by a bunch of tiny, puny muscles. Generally speaking, high reps work best for shoulders. An high rep load (=lower load) may allow you to attempt few more reps, while a low rep load (=higher load) on a tiny muscle won't allow you to even try to push something more.

So yes, what >>42037528 says.

>>42037114
OHP, no I idea why I put D there.

>>42037528
>>42037569
I'm only 2 months into the program.
I press 62.5kg (137lbs) for 3x5. (yes, I've lifted before doing SS)
I've got a good few months of LP left on my other lifts, I'd like to drag out progression on The Press for as long as I do SS.

1.DEADLIFT (heavy, pyramid)
Shoulder accessory work (15 sets, high reps)

2.HIP THRUST (heavy, pyramid)
Back accessory (15 sets, high reps)

3.ZERCHER SQUAT (heavy, pyramid)
BENCH PRESS (heavy, pyramid)
Chest accessory (12 sets, high reps)

4.LISS RUN

5.MISC ACCESSORY WORK

Rest days as needed

How's this for a HLM (Heavy-Light-Medium) setup?

Squat: Back Squat / Front Squat
Pull: Deadlift / Barbell Row / Power Clean
Push: The Press / Bench Press / Push Press

Rep ranges:
5x8, 5x5, 5x3

Percentages, based off a Training Max (85-90% of actual max):
65-75, 75-85, 85-95

The 5 sets always ramping sets + 2 down sets:
e.g. 65 - 70 - 75 - 65 - 65

Cycle through all lifts and rep ranges, then increase the weight for the percentages.

Every Training Day has 1 Heavy (5x3) , 1 Light (5x8) and 1 Medium (5x5) Lift, and 1 Squat, 1 Pull and 1 Push respectively.

For example:
Heavy Back Squat: 85 - 90 - 95 - 85 - 85 5x3
Light Barbell Row: 65 -70 -75 - 65 - 65 5x8
Medium Push Press: 75 - 80 - 85 - 75 - 75 5x5

Next day would be H Push, L Squat, M Pull
Then H Pull, L Push, M Squat
And so on, until I did all Lifts once heavy, once light and once medium.

Not sure about the percentages though. I've taken these more or less from 5/3/1
Alternative Rep ranges to keep the volume the same: 3x8, 5x5, 8x3

>>42037695
"Pyramidal" schemes are a known scam. More lactic acid and cortisol in the pursue of hitting every fibre. Just go for high reps and low reps in two different days or with two different exercises hitting the same muscles.

But it's just a mess. Trash it and start over. That's not even an exercise layout.

>>42037846
Pyramids work beautifully. Low reps with an amrap at the top set. lol @ calling them a scam. For strength gains it works. re: it being a mess though - no arguments here.

>>42037903
>Pyramids work beautifully. Low reps with an amrap at the top set. lol @ calling them a scam.
It's not just a scam, it's an awful scam. They work only for someone really bad at programming a decent layout, since the the trainee has the impression to include both a strength and resistance focused training in one easy-to-remember exercise.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/28130627/
> Eur J Appl Physiol 117 (2)
>2017 Jan 27

>Randomized Controlled Trial

>Crescent Pyramid and Drop-Set Systems Do Not Promote Greater Strength Gains, Muscle Hypertrophy, and Changes on Muscle Architecture Compared With Traditional Resistance Training in Well-Trained Men
>CP and DS systems do not promote greater gains in strength, muscle hypertrophy and changes in muscle architecture compared to traditional resistance training.

>Participants had trained their lower limbs for at least 4 years with a frequency of two times per week, and were able to squat with at least 130% of their body mass to be deemed as resistance trained
>free from using anabolic steroids
>To the authors’ knowledge, this is the first study comparing the effects of Crescent Pyramid (CP) and Drop-set (DS) RT systems with Traditional (TRAD) RT in a volume-equated program on muscle strength, cross-sectional area (CSA), and architecture parameters in well-trained individuals.

Other studies speculated that a drop set may possibly allow for more volume in the same session or for the same volume in less time, but it comes at cost (intramuscular hypoxia which leads to harder/longer recovery) and there's generally no metabolic nor mechanical difference in the response as far as strength/resistance/mass is concerned. Many other studies compared DS with various routines, but never directly with a volume-equated "Traditional" training.

>re: it being a mess though - no arguments here.
There has been quite literally zero thinking in that "layout". Are you a female?

>>42037033
did you mean to respond to the guy I was responding to? im op

>>42037980
You're taking that as gospel? It's a shit study. Firstly it used 6-15 reps, rather than something closer to 5-3-1. And they tested it on a single leg, leg press ffs rather than a compound movement that the scheme would actually be applied to, like a deadlift or squat. I can see what they're trying to do by doing a single leg movement on the same person, but it's so far away from how you'd actually put it into practice I'm taking it with a massively grain of salt. Any better ones?

>>42038038
yep, my bad lel

>>42037467
V O L U M E
O
L
U
M
E
micropl8s help a little but after a certain point they wont, LP is hard to sustain.
add accessories and/or ohp light load high volume on other days
>>42038084
>>42037903
>>42037695
that is not a program, and piramidal schemes are not good. what are your numbers.
why would you tire yourself with several high rep sets before attempting a low rep set?
they are known to not work, they're quintessential dyel rep scheme, literally every dumb pt makes you do em.
feel free to listen to the advice or not, we are not the ones missing out

>>42037980
holy shit, im not the anon you responded to but holy shit, where do you find the energy to scour studies and argue on a jamaican baby-raping forum

just lift heavy, and let others lift heavy, who tf cares jeez

>>42037980
Also, I don't think there is a significant cost to the extra volume. Greasing the groove principle. Staying away from failure, at least anecdotally allows me to recover a lot better. And I love how you say there's no mechanical difference. You're performing more sets/reps, and in doing so becoming better at performing the movement itself.

If your response is "just do one day heavy, one day light" instead-- then OK. But that doesn't mean it's a scam. It means there's two different ways to get the same result. If someone prefers to up their volume via pyramids, so be it. Even your own link didn't show less strength gains- but comparable ones. So again, lol at calling it a scam.

>>42038154
anecdotally, i've increased my bench and pullup maxes with reverse pyramid training (2-3 warmup sets, then 5/8/10/12/15 reps)

>>42038084
>Randomized Controlled Trial
>shit study
>they can't check the complexity of a compound movement!!!11
I doubt you ever opened a "strength and conditioning"-related paper in your whole life. That's a pretty standard and accepted methodology. You're just grasping at straws.
If you bothered to read 10% of it, it's the first randomized controlled trial on volume-equated CP/DS/TRAD trainings. I also included results from other studies (more volume, but at cost)

Are you a female?

>>42038154
>Also, I don't think there is a significant cost to the extra volume
You don't seem to think well.
>If your response is "just do one day heavy, one day light" instead-- then OK.
That's it.
>But that doesn't mean it's a scam. It means there's two different ways to get the same result.
It's a scam for the reasons I've already detailed.
>If someone prefers to up their volume via pyramids, so be it
Yep, you're free to be shit at creating a routine. Not that you have one, it's a total mess. So enjoy shit+shit.
>Even your own link didn't show less strength gains- but comparable ones. So again, lol at calling it a scam.
Are you a female?

>>42038139
I did research that for myself in the distant past and some months ago I stumbled upon this paper while researching for my thesis.

>>42038210
What are your numbers?

Still no evidence of it being a scam. Just a definitive sounding claim of "more lactic acid and cortisol" without any evidence, and posting a shit study that focused on rep schemes/percentages that are miles off base. IDGAF if I'm wrong, but you speak with way too much authority for someone who hasn't posted anything convincing. What are your numbers?

>>42038312
It's awful to reply to a question with a question.
Are you a female?

I've been going to gym for almost two months.

Is it time to ditch stronglifts for GSLP with some arm work?

>>42038131
You're not tiring yourself out with high rep sets. It might look something like 3,3,3,3,3 AMRAP 3,3 building up to the top set an coming down

>>42038312
>IDGAF if I'm wrong, but
it seems you are giving more than a fuck about you being wrong and it seems you're eluding the topic, actually
more than one anon already told you to consider something different, see >>42038131

>>42038330
Where's the evidence of more cortisol/lactic acid? Nothing in the abstract you posted contained anything regarding that -- and that's basically what your argument rests on, since the study you posted was a strawman.

>>42038384
It's awful to reply to a question with a question.
Are you a female?

>>42038330
And I am female, but I can probably lift more than you. At least with my lower body.

>>42038332
switch after the third deload

>>42038406
And I am male, but certainly get laid more than you do. Definitely because of my bb routine.

>>42038406
numbers nigger

also, what do you think is best for strenght gains.
>doing 3x5 or a 531 type rep scheme, after a couple of warmup sets, rested and warmed up
>doing 3 to 4 sets of high volume, tiring yourself out, before attempting the new 5rm

also I dont think you shuold be making your own program, you dont seem to know much about programming and the extent of your knowledge seems to be bro-tier gym science

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What do y'all think of a 5-day brosplit with gym-workouts in the evening and 30mins of calisthenics in the morning (different muscle-group), to hit everything 2x per week?

>>42038466
lol what? 5-3-1 IS apyramid rep scheme nigger. Wtf are you talking about? Once again, you aren't tiring yourself out with high reps at any stage. If you wanna say it's a scam, don't strawman it.

>>42038518
Shhh, sweetie.

Stick to the squats and get yourself a man.

Real fitness ain't no business for a girl.

>>42038533
>be /fit/
>hate on pyramid rep schemes
>here, try 5-3-1 instead

>>42038562
just lol.

>>42038518
>>42038562
go back to squatting in the smith machine honey, you know jack shit about lifting
>And I am female, but I can probably lift more than you. At least with my lower body
fucking kek

>>42038478
fine if you don't train the same bodypart twice a day

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what is a good routine for someone who will never be aesthetic, and has low energy (cant do too much volume before i need to shit myself and puke), and only autistically cares about the deadlift, squat/frontsquat, bench and OHP?

>>42038597
hepburn method

>>42038562
Clocks a ticking.

You only got a few good years left before you womb dries up and there ain't no body that's gonna pay your bills.

>>42038406
Post tits

>>42038578
>confused cunt who suggests 5-3-1 instead of pyramids

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AxBxCDxx

A:
Squat 3x10
OHP 3x10
WG-Pullups 3x(10+n) n=week since starting
Dips 3x(10+n)
Wrist curls 3x10
Calf/Donkey raise 3x20 slowly

B:
Barbell Benchpress: 3x10
DB Benchpress: 3x10
DB chest flies 3x10
Skull crushers 3x10
Tricep pulldown 3x10
Heel touchers 3x20 slowly

C:
Incline BB BP 3x10
Incline DB BP 3x10
DB front overhead raise 3x10
DB lat overhead raise 3x10
DB rear flies 3x10
DB Arnold press 3x10

D:
Deadlift 1x10
Chin-up 3x(10+n)
Barbell rows 3x10
Barbell curls 3x10
Hammer curls 3x10
Shrugs 3x(15+n)
Heel touchers 3x20 slowly
Glute-ham falls 1xfailure

Two of the x days are usually substituted with either cardio (non-stop incline running for at least 12 minutes at 10km/h) or mountain biking (about 1h)
Currently trying to cut down from 85kg (about 20%bf) to at least 80kg, with about 1500 calories a day.
am i gonna make it /fit/?

>>42038602
thanks, reading up on it now on t-nation

>>42038623
honey the only confused one here is you, you boasted of how much you can lift "at least with your upper body" and havent yet posted one number.
Your knowledge of programming and lifting is shit, your numbers are shit, and you probably look like trash. like one of those wide shoulder narrow hip'd androgynous femlet

>>42038640
it has highish volume, but it will always feel light, but at the same time you will always progress week to week, either in reps or in weight

its great if you're not rushing for a meet/to look good until certain date

it can be run for life literally

check posts by user "twiceborn"on this archive, he consulted with hepburn personally

http://web.archive.org/web/20120202100124/http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_article/hepburn_solution_for_strength_and_power_1?

6 day upper lower, with lighter days in the middle

This is how I'm transitioning out of linear progression into some more bigness

On upper body days, all compounds superset with oblique work (typically pallof presses) and lower body lifts are supersetted with ab wheel

Upper 1 (heavy bench)
Bench + Barbell row 3*5, 2*8
Z press + chin 4*8
Face pull + Side raise 5*20
Arm circuit:
Hammer curl 5*10 + DB Curl 5*20(F) + DB floor press 5*20 + Band pressdown 5*20(F)

Lower 1
Squat 3*5, 2*8
Emom DL 75-85% 1-3*10-15
Giant set 5 rounds
SLDL 8-12
Goblet Squat 20-25
Glute bridge 20-30

Upper 2 (light)
1 Arm standing press + chin 4*8
Press up + 2DB row 3*12-20
Face pulls 120-150 total reps

Lower 2 (light)
Front Squat 3*3
Emom squat 70% 1-3*6-8
Giant set 2 rounds

Upper 3 (heavy vertical)
Z press + chin 5*5 or 3*5, 2*8
Press up + 2 DB row 4*8
Face pulls + Side raise 5*20
Arm circuit 5 rounds

Lower 3
Deadlift 3*1-3, 1*5-8
Emom front Squat 75-85% 1-3*10-15
Giant set 5 rounds

The day off is usually for messing around with a sandbag

>>42038672
Tick tock tick tock.

>>42038672
*lower body

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>>42038406
>I am female
Great! Thanks for answering eventually.
I was almost sure about that. Not because you did include hip thrusts in your non-existent routine but because you're a stubborn clueless idiot.
I'm the first one who doesn't give a fuck about changing your mind. I'd rather argue with a capybara.
>>42038384
>the study you posted was a strawman.
nigger, calling a randomized controlled study on this exact topic "a strawman" is a bit too much of a stretch. Yours are straws for sure.
>>42038384
>evidence of more cortisol/lactic acid?
I'm not here to educate yourself on papers you clearly won't understand. You awfully commented already on the methodology of a randomized controlled trial. The simple fact you need a paper to understand that a CS/DS increases lactic acid makes me wonder if you have high-school-tier concepts of human physiology. The whole CS/DS premise is to abuse the anaerobic glycolysis, letting you diving in lactate and hopefully proportional GH. ex multis, http://jap.physiology.org/content/74/2/882.long , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12853908 , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7604197
But really, first you need to understand a few things about glycolisis and ATP.
>>42038406
>I can probably lift more than you. At least with my lower body.
Can you squat more than 155 kg and deadlift more than 170 kg? I have some serious doubts given that you don't have a routine.

But hey don't worry baby girl, you're gorgeous!! Here, have a cute pic of a capybara
xoxoxox

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>>42038681
>But don't forget one of the most important points that Hepburn made in his book: Have a life outside of training. Do the workouts and do them well, but afterwards, get your mind off training.

>>42038672
tick tock tick tock

>>42038633
>3x10
>1x10 anything
>three rest days
What is this Men's Fitness tier workout plan?

>>42038748
>>42038697
this is embarassing, poor little thing. that must have hit a nerve

>>42038700
she's not used to being contradicted, her small brain cant process her own retardation.
she will barely be able to read your post

>>42038672
Tick tock tick tock

>>42038672
Tick tack tick tack

>>42038700
I hope you're a sub 70kg manlet or have only just started, because your numbers are garbage. Seriously. Such confidence with such weakness!

It's a strawman. You're extrapolating the vague "65-85%, 6-15 reps" that your study quoted onto all forms of pyramid training. You're one step above the guy who doesn't understand 5-3-1. Just.

>>42027369
>>42035435
Just do it, the logic behind ivysaur's workout is sound. I'm going to give it a try as well. ~36 hours until you can lift a muscle group again, doing bench and OHP every workout on AxBxAxx makes sense. Will probably make some huge chest and shoulder gains.

>>42038672
Tick tock tick tock.

>>42038820
Tick tock tick tock

>>42025291
HIIT routines?

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>>42038844
>>42038820
>>42038815
>>42038796
>>42038748
>>42038697
>>42038856
we've got a full on autistic meltdown on our hands lads
it's glorious

>>42038633
no, you're not gonna make it. you're doing too much shit, and in too high of rep ranges

what you need to do to preserve muscle is keep the intensity (ie weights lifted) high, and volume moderate to low, depending on your kcal.

so something like 3x5 for all lifts also cut half of these fluff exercises

>>42038820
Tick tock tick tock

How's this for a modified PH upper lower split?
Should I keep the incline bench on power day?

ABxCDx

A (upper Power)
- 4x5 Bench Press
-3x10 incline bench
- 3x5 pendaly row
- 3x10 pullups
-3x8 Overhead Press
-3x10 barbell curl
-3x10 skullcrusher

B (Lower Power)
-4x5 squat
-4x5 Deadlift

C (Upper Hypertrophy)
-3x12 incline bench
-3x12 flat bench dumbbell flye
-3x12 pullups
-3x12 Kroc row
-4x12 lateral raises
-4x12 incline dumbbell curl
-4x12 tricep extensions

D (Lower Hypertrophy)
-4x12 front squat
-4x12 barbell lunge
-4x12 hip Thrusts
-4x12 good morning
-4x12 calf raises

>>42038743
he was a very philosophical guy, and generally a nice dude who wanted to help everyone, or so i've read atl east

>>42038918
I do all of that everyday for 2 hours.

It sped up my cuts.

As long as I took creatine preworkout, I was fine.

>these are the people giving you advice

It's fine for preserving muscle, but goddamn are those exercises mismatched for their respective days.

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>>42038792
I gave up on arguing with females a long way ago. If they share something, they are never asking for comments. They only beg validation. Any comment against their beliefs (even if constructive) will be seen as an attack. It's a sort of selective blindness. I guess it has its ethological reasons to exist

>>42038820
Yep, babygirl, you're totally right!
A 70 kg manlet who just started has those 5RM and I'm definitively a 70 kg manlet!

No, I'm 182 and I weight 88 kg. I never test 1RM directly, 155 kg for reps (5RM) for squat and 170 kg for reps (5RM) for deadlifts are not exactly novice. I'm not asking for yours 'cause you're really so strong!

>It's a strawman
Sure honey, a paper made by one of the major supporters and contributors of PS/CS on this exact topic (pyramid schemes and drop sets) is moot! And 5/3/1 is totally the same thing.

Stay strong baby xoxoxox

>>42038924
why modify it? whats your progression scheme? i bet you're a beginner who thinks he'll look like zyZZXDBRAHHHH in 3 months on this routine

here's a hint: wont happen

>>42038820
Tick tock tick tock

>>42038963
I'm actually approaching intermediate... Also nice projecting
My main reason for the changes is because the only machine I have access to is to do tricep extensions and lat pull downs.
As for the other changes like the one asked about specifically I just feel that that scheme is a bit out of place for a day dedicated to Strength.

>>42038944
you write like a middleaged wannabe hipster who heard some terms from his pt that he pays $3k/mo

>it sped up my cuts

here's a hint buddy: you can't outrun a bad diet, and you certainly can't outlift it in the gym. what "sped up your cuts" was low calorie intake

Hey there /fit/ boys

So I have a question regarding exercises and my program.
I have started working out with a friend, who has been doing so for two years now.
His aesthetics are good, and I trust him.
However, after reading the sticky about programs, I am wondering what we're doing is any good.

Our program is variable, it's not much of a set program really. Right now we go to the gym about three days a week, sometimes four, depening on our schedule.
When we arrive we determine what groups of muscles we have done and which one we haven't, then choose one we haven't done this day.
>Did chest / bicep, lets do leg

All these days are centered around one compound excersise, i.e. squat / bench / deadlift
Then, when we did the main compound excersise we add 3 isolation excersises, or more compounds corresponding to the muscle group.
This means that no one day is the same except for the compound excersises we base it around.

Is this way of training any good? Are there pros and cons?

>>42038957
You're clever enough to know that you can't extrapolate the vague parameters of that study onto all forms of pyramid training. It makes about as much sense as linking it and saying "see! 5-3-1 with back off sets is bunk! It's a scam". Because that's not far off what my training is. Anyway my squat max is 135, deadlift 160. I'm 65kg. And a girl. Cya!

>>42038996
i'm not projecting
>approaching intermediate
so you're still a novice and you're doing a plan for advanced lifters that has no progression scheme

progression = increase weight, reps, or sets weekly, biweekly, monthly

it doesn't have to be straight linear progression like rippletits and other guys recommend, ie adding 5-10lb to the bar every time you're in the gym

anyways, listen to my advice or don't, i dont really care, all im saying is you need to get at least some kind of progression planned in there

>>42039000
If you were confident in your advice, you wouldn't be blowing up on the first person to disagree with you lol.

Stuffing more volume turned my 15lb/3week cut into a 15lb/1week one. It's literally god-tier for competition prep -- not having to cut for 10 weeks and being able to stuff in more leangains.

Stay bluepilled, lad.

>>42039023


Pros: Contributes to being lean.

Cons: You won't get big with hitting a muscle one time a week.

You bro's ottermode, right?

>>42039023
it's good if he's laying it out for you correctly. but he probably isn't.

so just tell him you want to do your own thing, find a linear periodization program (from the sticky) and do it 'till you get decent strength gains. of course, you can add the fluff exercises everyone loves doing, like bicep curls, triceps/lateral delts, etc.

basic things he should be telling you to do considering you are a beginner:

1. train each muscle twice, or even 3x a week
2. increase either weight, sets or reps every time you hit the gym
3. stick to compound lifts (bench press, squat, deadlift, overhead press, row, chinup, dip)

this is why it'd be easier for you to just do starting strength, stronglifts (SL has an app that tells you how much to lift exactly), etc

>>42039050
Yes, he's ottermode, which is kind of what I want to achieve.
Maybe when I am near plateauing I will consider going big, but first things first.

To go big, you suggest doing the same compound excersise multiple times a week, as suggested in the programs?

i.e. ABA - BAB

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>>42039035
>Anyway my squat max is 135, deadlift 160. I'm 65kg. And a girl
haahahaha sure it is baby, I have no doubt those are your numbers. With such a powerful routine! And a so deep knowledge of resistance training! Only a fool would believe you're e-statting and you just gave a peek at the maximum potential for natty females in your bw range on symstrength.

stay strong xoxoxoxo

>>42039038
Sure bud

My progression plan is to try and increase my compound lifts by 5-10lbs every sessions and if I can't handle the weight of the previous session to deload by 10%

As far as advice goes you didn't really give me any. You just said if you can't do it 100% the way it was originally intended don't do it all. But I don't have machines so what do according to you?

>>42039077
I am aware of the basics of lifting.
Check weight, start low, increase weight.
He's the kind of guys who loves to explain things, so I often hear shit a trillion times untill I'm bored of it.

Is your advice based on going huge, or get an aetheticly good body (i.e. ottermode)

>>42039050
>hmm im not sure if this workout is okay
>better go ask for advice on /fit/
>okay anon now i'm gonna tell you why you are wrong and why this approach is right

why ask for advice then? it has been working beautifully for you, keep doing your shit, dont ask us for reassurance

>>42039112
eh you can get ottermode with 6 months of calisthenics but yeah, whatever mode you want to get to, you should hit every muscle group twice a week, you're basically losing time and potential imho

>>42039109
nah man i'm just saying people do way too much shit, way too early on, but if that's your goal then who tf am i to stop you

sure, do it your way, after all you can't make a machine you don't have magically appear

i'm just saying you need to find a way to progress, which seems to me now that you have

the problem with (some) routines is they are not routines, they're just exercise layouts

a routine has to have a progressive overload planned into it so ya

>>42039089
Otter's a 6-month max endeavor, don't fall into that trap. You'll hit it easily, but you could get juicy in the same amount of time with a better routine.

To get big you gotta hit a muscle intensely 2-3x a week. PPL is fine, brosplit is fine, as long as you're doing a good amount of volume and hitting it consistently.

ABA - BAB PPL is great for beginners.

Check out Arnie's book if you ever feel like delving deep into it.

>>42039113
Shoulda made it more clear: I'm not the same guy that posted that routine.

I do in volume the same amount as the guy does in those four days, natty.

>>42039093
You're weak, and it follows that you think 5-3-1 -- one of the most reliable strength builders, and what I base my training on with a slight variation -- is a scam. Nobody should be listening to you.

>>42039164
Is this the tick tock thread I've been hearing about?

>>42039156
fair enough

>>42039180
Eyy, you watch Bill Burr?

>>42039156
What are brosplit and PPL?

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>>42039035
>squat max is 135, deadlift 160. I'm 65kg
>>42039093
>maximum potential for natty females in your bw range on symstrength.
ahahahah jeez for real. will she ever recover?

>>42039191
yep

>>42039152
If there's to much shit in it what should I cut out? I figured that a normal progression scheme would be fine until it stops working. Thank you for all your help

>>42039211
PPL: Push Pull Legs

Brosplit: What you and your friend were doing, but x2. Chest/ Bis x2, etc.

>>42039227
Fair enough.

>>42039211
bro split = generally hitting a muscle group(s) once a week so something like
mon-chest/triceps, tue-back/biceps, wed-legs, fri-shoulders

or splitting it even more so ches/back/legs/shoulders/arms or a combination of these

PPL = push/pull/legs, generally done twice a week so PPLPPLx where x=rest
push=chest/triceps, pull=back, biceps, legs=legs obv

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>>42039164
Yep, I'm very weak and you're very strong. Everybody should listen to you! You know everything about resistance training and you have a deep knowledge on the subject. You happen to understand perfectly what's the purpose of CP/DS, the role of lactace, cortisol and GH. You are exceptional in skimming papers too! And your routine is wonderful!

Please don't punch me I'm so weeeeeak

>>42039293
Show me your tits and I'll go easy.

>>42039050
>Stuffing more volume turned my 15lb/3week cut into a 15lb/1week one
if you lost 15 lbs in one week then I'm sorry to tell you that much of that was muscle

>>42038924
what are your numbers?
Is the LP still coming or are you having trouble
as a general rule, I wouldnt fuck too much with a routine, unless you've been on it and experienced it and know what you would change.
I'd say start and see how you feel about it, then act accordingly

>>42039023
I mean, he's better than the average gym goer due to him even knowing what compound barbell movements are, but he doesnt seem to know much about programming
any type of training without structure is doomed to be inefficient.
You're basically doing a compound-centered brosplit, which even if it was structured would yield lesser results than a fullbody, upper lower or ppl.
I'd say read the sticky, what I wrote in the OP, and just browse for a bit until you kinda get the hang of it, dont worry about lost gains in the beginning, everybody needs a learning period.
>Yes, he's ottermode, which is kind of what I want to achieve.
First thing you need to realize is that there is no magic beginner routine to get big and another to get ottermode.
Ottermode is literally the next step from looking skinny untrained.
It's like with chicks that dont wanna lift because they "dont wanna get huge and bulky".
it's a continuum

>>42039035
>shitposting autistically for one hour
>comes up with elite tier numbers
This is the biggest sign you know close to zero about lifting
it's ok sweetiepie, now go shitpost in another thread, this one is for people that actually lift

>>42039227
>>42039191
>>42039180
fair enough yacunts

>>42039228
if you've got the time, energy, and are interested, youtube search "brendan tietz programming", and watch every video that has the word programming in the title (there's one for beginners, intermediates, etc); make notes while he talks and apply the knowledge you gain to make a plan perfect just for you

if not, search the same thing and download his free beginner program from the vid "programming for beginners"; the dude's knowledgeable as fuck imo

if you think you're not a beginner/don't want to do that shit then do either

coolcicada's ppl
greyskull LP (check google images for this one)
or even texas method (im not a fan of rippletits but this program worked well for me)

i've done all 3 and had great success on all 3

Stay weak and autistic boys

>>42031084
What do you mean by "high intensity" routines? Do you have any good examples that I can work with?

>>42039304
>if you lost 15 lbs in one week then I'm sorry to tell you that much of that was muscle

Lyle's got some great stuff on Protein Sparing Modified Fasts (PSMF) that shorten the cutting window and slow down muscle wasting.

1 week's generally not enough time to go asuchwitz catabolic, especially at a high BF%.

>>42039338
Probably:

Higher weights, less reps, less resting time.

>>42039164
>it follows that you think 5-3-1 -- one of the most reliable strength builders, and what I base my training on with a slight variation -- is a scam
we have never said 531 is a scam, your shitty pyramidal scheme is, for fuck sake I use it in my OP routine.
you are the one who said 531 was a pyramidal scheme as well, so apparently that made your shit routine ok

>>42039338
intensity = weight lifted
volume = generally reps+sets

so high intensity, low volume would be heavier weights for lower reps sets (3x3, 3x5, 5x3, or even singles, etc)

>>42039364
Oh ok I see what you're talking about. Is RPT by leangains a good high intensity program to follow on a cut?

>>42039357
unless you're severely overweight, you lost a lot of muscle in that 15lbs, there's just no way around it

>>42039384
apparently not, check 10ish posts above, people are pissing over pyramid training

from my own experience though, im this guy >>42038208

so i guess it varies, i tried it and worked nicely for me

>>42039402
Checked my BF% before and after.

Didn't lose an ounce.

>>42039319
Ok thank you I will. I'm currently on Greyskull lp and have had alot of success on that. I'm more or less researching for a routine for when I'm done with Greyskull witch I'm planning on around mid August to switch. I want a program that would be a good balance between strength and aesthetics. With that in mind I doubt I'll do Texas but in my final result program I may use the ideas from it to progress on the big 3 lifts.

>>42039304
>>42039238
>>42039256


Thanks for the advice and answers.


Say I'd go for the first program I found which is this one;

It is attractive to me because going to gym more than 3 days a week is unrealistic in my current life style.

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
2x5-8 dips (only add weight if you are doing >10 bodyweight dips)

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay Rows (or power cleans for 5x3, 5 sets of 3 reps apiece)
2x5-8 chinups ***if you do the power cleans, do 3 sets of chinups***

aside from the fact I wouldn't be even able to do chinups (I could do them assisted, I know).

Why are certain isolation excersises like tri extensions / bi curls not included.
One of the things I would really like to improve are my teeny tiny arms.

>>42037846
>>42037980
>>42038210
So wise anons, should one do all his sets on the same weight? Or should he do all sets in the same reps but with different weights if possible?

>>42039429
Ok so I guess pyramid training is a meme. Do you have a good high intensity routine that I could follow?

>>42039459
>Why are certain isolation excersises like tri extensions / bi curls not included.

because it is generally believed that if you can't bench press/military press a certain amount of weight, you shouldn't isolate your arms, but it's bullshit

you can add these:
bicep curl 3x10-12
tricep extension or rolling skull crusher 3x10-12
lateral raises 3x10-12
face pulls or reverse delt flys 3x10-12

you can add them after each and every workout (so 3x/week), it will not hinder your progress whatsoever

>>42039459
Looks like a bastardization of the SL 5x5.

And it's a pure strength routine.

I can vouch for >>42039507's exercises though.

>>42039520
its from "rippletits"
http://newbie-fitness.blogspot.nl/2006/12/rippetoes-starting-strength.html

>>42039482
Familiarize with the concepts of linear periodization once you've done with linear progression. A different rep range may elicit a different growth, yet the common knowledge "high reps for small muscles, low reps for big muscles" is pretty correct.

>>42039364
Would 5/3/1 Triumvirate be adequate for a high intensity routine?

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>>42039528
A god in his prime. The product of all BB knowledge condensed.

>>42039487
each and every well made routine will be somewhat high intensity. i will list a few options, google around and see which ones you like:

PHUL
Texas Method
Metallicadpa PPL
coolcicada PPL
candito 6 week program (highly reccomend this one, here's a link: http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-programs/)

>>42039550

5/3/1 BBB variant is 2nd best to candito's program, imho

>>42039558
>>42039528
Why does SS specify 3x3, while SL is 5x5?

I feel the 5x5 actually impedes weight progress. 3x5 I could probably be on much higher weights. Is it just to really hammer home form? is 5x5 supposedly better for strength gains?

>>42039584
*Specify 3x5, not 3x3.

2 hot 4 me

>>42039558
i have an unexplainable hate for that guy, and i don't know if it's cuz of his mediocre PL maxes, the accent (he pronounces what as "hWat", where as "hWhere" etc), the fact he used to work for crossfit, the fact he stole the concept of SS from bill starr, or that he's just preached around here like he's a fucking second jesus

>>42039507
>>42039558

Alright, now that i have my custom needs newbie program, a small question about food.
It said about 1 gr of protein per lb.
So about 2gr of protein per kg.
That would mean about 140 gr of protein for me.
Elsewhere I read that people said its about 0.7xBodyweight?
Which one is true, and does it even matter if I overeat on proteine? (Tuna/whey/eggs/cottage cheese)

>>42039361
read beyond 5-3-1, get to spinal tap training, look at the only 3's variation. Tell me more about shitty pyramid training?

>>42033139
is that dog dead?

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>>42025291
I have back issues which cause terrible pain in my leg

going to PT and working on the issue

any lifting that compresses my spine will make my leg hurt later that day - sometimes to the point where I can't walk

exercises that cause it:
deadlifts
squats
ohp

leg press machine is fine

what shoulder lifts can I do to that won't push down on my spine?

>>42039617
1g/lb = 2.2g/kg

if you're trying to lose weight, make it around 1.8-2g/kg of GOAL bodyweight, that should be enough

so if your goal bodyweight is 100kg, you should eat roughly 180 to 200grams of protein

if you're trying to gain weight, you can eat a bit less (so something like 1.5-1.7g/kg, but CURRENT kg, so adjust as you gain weight)

and it's better if you overeat on protein, especially if trying to lose weight, while staying in a caloric deficit, because protein + lifting = you get to keep the muscle you have + even gain a little bit

for gaining weight, it still doesn't matter, up to 400g/day if i recall correctly isnt bad for your body at all (general concern is that kidneys get fucked cuz of protein, it seems to not be true though)

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>>42039584
>>42039600
So you don't look like pic related.

3x5 is getting close to pure CNS development. Atleast with 5x5 you might build a little muscle.

See: Mehdi's physique vs Rippetoe's.

>>42039617
140g is a "safe number" for protein. As a beginner, it'll likely be more than you need, but there's padding in there just in-case you need more than the "scientifically safe" .6-.7xBW (the amount a regular athlete needs).

I would take /r/fitness' advice with a grain of salt.

It doesn't really matter if you overeat on protein (some studies show an increasing anabolic effect the more protein you eat).

>>42039617
anything from 1 to 2 grams per kg of bw is proven to be enough. try to stay over 100 to be safe. it's not recommended to go over 2.2g/kg

>>42039584
because SL is actually a bastardize version of SL, but with a lot of stuff missing, and no book
with 5x5 you tend to hit the wall pretty quickly.
mind you, it happens with 3x5 but at least, if your diet/sleep/rest is in check, it should happen right when you should switch to an intermediate routine

>>42039682
what issues? sciatica?
>leg press machine is fine
do you mean leg extensions? because the leg press does put some weight on your spine
>what shoulder lifts can I do to that won't push down on my spine?
lateral raises, front raises, cable lateral raises, DB shoulder press (seated or standing)...there are plenty of them

>>42025291
Any apps for beginner routines that tells you exactly what to do?

>>42039781
stronglifts has one, i believe

>>42039747
fuck i want to try trap bar deadlift so badly

there's no gyms afaik in my vicinity at least, that has it

but it seems like such a great and safeish lift you can go ham on

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>>42039747
Man I wish my gym had a trap bar, so fucking good.

>See: Mehdi's physique vs Rippetoe's.
this actually made me wonder, I never saw Mehdi's physique, and the results were keklicious
good ol rippetits can probably pull not more but close to him even though he's an old fat fuck

>>42039753
>>42039747
wew

So i'm on SL 5x5 at the moment, I added in Dips, curls, cable crunches and planks as accessories.

I've already had to deload on squats once and on OHP; squats because I'd started at a higher weight than I should have and my core wasn't keeping up with the weight so it lead to complete form breakdown.

OHP because hitting even 5/5/5/4/3 on 40kg OHP was so much effort I knew I wouldn't be able to do it if I just kept slogging at the same weight.

Should I just continue as best I can? I'm unsure now.

>>42039823
that's not rippletits though

>>42039781
stronglifts if you do stronglifts, cant be customized that much.
Progression fitness tracker for android is good, there are a bunch
dont know about ios, I guess the same

>>42039824
I know that struggle mate, I remember especially with OHP.
I guess, make sure your form is alright, and if you see you cant go on with 5x5, pull it back to 3x5

>>42039823
>>42039811
Bring Your Own trap-Bar.

My gym doesn't have one either, so I just bring a long piece of nylon rope everytime I need to do shrugs or hack squats.

>>42039824
>planks

Isometrics are shit for muscle development.

Besides that, how are you eating and sleeping? Are you taking creatine and any preworkout?

>>42039852
Cheers mate, I'll keep at it for now.

I've started thinking about it lately because it really does feel like there's a massive wall coming straight for me. I'll endure until I hit it, at least.

>>42039863
eating well, around 3500 kcals, evenly spaced macros with lots of protons, including veg and such. My sleep isn't the best but I get around 7 hours a night; I do try for 8 but it takes me ages to fall asleep and I usually wake up like an hour before my alarm.

Pre workout I take 200mg caffeine 1 hour before the session and 5g creatine half hour before.

>>42039896
Chronic low-grade sleep deprivation will fuck up your lifts.

I used to have trouble with 25 sets a day on 7 hours. I'm doing 80 sets and sleeping 9 hours nowadays, and couldn't be happier.

You shouldn't be stalling if you're young and healthy. Have you gone to a sleep specialist or an endo?

Get that shit checked out before it kills your gains.

>>42039753
yeah, sciatica

seated leg press but my legs (shins) are horizontal and my back is pretty much vertical - the weights swing out, it's not one of those laying back kinds

I've done OHP and fucking kills my back/sciatica - that's why I don't know if standing lateral raises will cause issues like OHP does now

thanks for the response

>>42039781
excel spreadsheets
otherwise, pen and paper.
if that's too much for you, stay cardiobunny

>>42039936
I haven't. I probably should, fuck.

>young

Does 27 count as young?

>>42039960
yes.

>>42039952
have you started stretching?
I got sciatica after a period where I didnt lift nor stretch
your sciatica might just be due to postural and muscular imbalances
try stretching the it band, piriformis and glutes, that worked for me big time

>>42039781
>>42039957
yeah I made a google sheet and use that, like this>>42030742, colums are weeks and I blocked the exercise column so that I can scroll horizontally without losing track of the exercises

>>42039960
Yeah, mate.

>>42039952
what this >>42040011
anon said

just rest and stretch the shit out of your lower body, and it should heal, at least it did for me

What's the best beginner's routine to go along with keto and intermittent fasting and will make me go from chubby to aesthetic?

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>>42040011
>have you started stretching?

yeah, PT has me doing stretches and recently started yoga

the last few days I've been stretching a few times a day, haven't done squats, deads or OHP, and been feeling better

I think I'm going to hold off a week or so and try some light squats - I have PT tomorrow, so I'll see what she says

thanks m8