You have 10 seconds to convince me extended water fasting is

Water fasting is objectively the easiest and healthiest way to lose weight.

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People need food to stay alive.

>inb4 can survive months without food

Yes, but it's objectively unhealthy

you dont develop proper dietary habits

The complex science of not eating food everyone. Make sure you subscribe to my youtube channel where I will talk about different not eating food strategies and don't forget to pick up my ebook which contains a lot of information on not eating food. All really ground breaking stuff we are touching on never heard before research on not eating food.

>>41896027
Conventional wisdom
>>41896055
Not relevant to the efficacy and health benefits of fasting itself

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You have 10 seconds to convince me south beach diet is bad without saying "it's a meme!" or spouting other convention wisdom.

>>41896068
It's conventional wisdom that people need food to live?

Perhaps try air fasting, solves all your issues far faster than water fasting.

>>41896087
The point that is it objectively unhealthy is conventional wisdom

Yes you need food to live but you don't need daily food intake to live and nothing in that comment provided any evidence or rationale against a time limited water fast

>>41895319
Because you probably don't even know what is true hunger.

>>41896099
Eating every hour every hour you are awake has many health benefits. Also I like to hook myself up to a nutrient rich drip while I sleep to maximize health gains. Please do not respond with convention wisdom.

>HERBERT M. SHELTON
>He saw himself as the champion of original natural hygiene ideas from the 1830s
>In 1942, Shelton was charged with negligent homicide and "treating and offering to treat a human being without a state medical license" for starving a patient to death.[4] The case was never tried and charges were dropped.
>By 1972, at the age of 77, he was completely bedridden from a degenerative neuro-muscular disease believed to be Parkinson's disease.[4] He died thirteen years later, unable to improve his own health despite many attempts.

Even a pioneer of water fasting couldn't fix himself.

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>>41896079

>>41895330
What about the "you will regain all the fat you burned" meme? I'm genuinely asking cause I'm quite ignorant

>>41895319
lmao
food is enjoyable

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>>41896317

>>41896713
Only if you eat more than you burn

>>41895319
it's a meme!

>>41896713
Typically fasting leads to binge eating habits. Combining binge eating, lack of nutritional knowledge, and calorie counting skills means people tend to end up heavier.

>>41897166
What type of fasting? Do you mean like 16-8, 5-2, OMAD style or extended water fasts? I think there is a very big difference between the two categories

>>41895319
There's a ton of misinformation about fasting and fatties hate it, so you know it's good if you do it right.

>>41897202
Can't answer that. There are three variables. How intense the diet is for the dieter, how much will power the dieter has, and how much dietary knowledge the dieter has. Fuck up any one of those three and it's usually negative.

>>41896713
It can easily happen if you go back into a standard eating habit too quickly. You have to eat very little food coming out of an extended water fast, like fruits and soup, for another extended period of time so you don't just balloon up

>>41896302

>lived to 90 years old while being bedridden and with parkinsons for that long

Huh, still not a single coherent argument against water fasting.

>>41897741
.03 cents has been added to your account.

>>41896079
It's just a low-carb, high protein diet. Not bad, probably too many calories for a proper semi-fasting diet and too many carbs for keto.

>>41897821
Conventional wisdom, argument void.

>>41897741
The first 2 to 3 days is pretty rough.

Low calorie diets don't have that.

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>>41896713
Have some legitimate proof of the contrary.
This was a 27 year old male on a 382 day water fast with vitamins.

"During 382 days of the fast, the patient's weight decreased from 456 to 180 lb. Five years after undertaking the fast, Mr A.B.'s weight remains around 196 lb."

>>41896027
Please read
>>41897915
In what ways (if any) is it objectively unhealthy?
Sounds like you know absolutely fuck all on the subject.

The study heavily monitored the man's metabolism, blood, etc and they reported no declines until 1 YEAR into the fast.

>>41897949
Wow... compelling stuff. Great image I will share this with my private facebook group.

Here is the study in full
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

>>41898027
So one guy drastically reduced his calorie intake for a year and maintained it for 5 years after that. My whole world is a lie. I'm literally shaking.

>>41898100
Drastically? Wew. He took in ZERO calories for a fucking year and maintained after breaking the fast.

Unless you've studied this yourself I guarantee you didn't know this was even possible yet still you act like a hyperfaggot.

>>41898253
>He took in ZERO calories for a fucking year
Someone please explain to me how it's possible to stay alive by in-taking zero energy for an entire year? Maybe your wording is just stupid as fuck but I don't get it.

>>41898284
>what is fat

>>41898292
You can survive on just body fat?

>>41898284
Your body will use up all of your stored glucose first, then start dipping into your fat stores and some small unneeded muscle mass and excess useless shit in your body to make up for the stuff that it can't produce on it's own.

So if you do go without eating for a while and have a bit of fat on you, as long as you remain active, do some small exercise to maintain muscle mass, and maybe take a multvitamin you'll be safe and healthy.

The multi is needed so that your body doesn't decide to eat your organs so that it can make or use the certain things that it needs to function.

>>41898297
Not entirely, which is why he took vitamins and electrolytes. Water, salt, and a multivitamin a day can take you far it seems.

>>41898306
>>41898324
wtf i love fasting now

>>41898253
What do you want me to say? It is a calorie deficit diet. One man did it with the help of professionals.

>>41898326
thats why keto and intermittent fasting is all the rage now on /fit/

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>>41897369
This. I hadn't quite gotten the hang of managing my intake after a fast, but I know the times I put weight back on immediately were my own damn fault. I've since gotten a lot better at it, and now I find water-fasting much easier than any other method.

I find that after a fast, if I ramp up my intake slowly, then my own appetite tends to settle on a lighter diet than I was on before. This is much more pleasant than going low calorie.

Have some Girls in Peril.

>>41898413
to be expected.
the stomach is a balloon. the more you inflate it, the greater its capacity becomes.

therefore through prolonged fasting, you end up being full on less.

its also why its better to eat many small meals than 1 large meal daily (among other reasons).

>>41898438
Wow the bullshit in this post is off the charts.

>>41898452
>therefore through prolonged fasting, you end up being full on less.
I found this to be true, mate

>>41898482
Yes inflating balloons and many small meals. Thank you dr oz.

>>41898373
And veganism.
It's litterally people starving themselves while taking in just enough calories and nutrients to live.

>>41898512
So whats the issue if there are no adverse health effects?

>>41898589
No one cares if you starve yourself you dumb faget.

Extreme calorie deficit diets have a shit track record on your average 1st world living person. The people who sell the fad diet shit and pitch it to vulnerable people are evil and I hope they die alone. That is the issue.

>>41898624
Actually no.
All diets have a shit trac record.
All fucking diets, as long as they don't kill you are permanently cripple you, work.

The problem is that people have no goddamned idea of how to change their life to maintain that weight loss.
They have no idea of how to keep it off and most everyone thinks that it's an all or nothing kind of thing.

No one knows what balance is and only lives in full extremes because that's where all of the thrills are. That's where the same kind of emotional bullshit that drives them to eat so goddamned much lives.

>>41896713

no a lie bro, I lost 33lbs within 2 weeks and after that i regained 4lbs back (probably water and glucose) and within 1 month I lost 6lbs again. About to do another water fast for 2 weeks or maybe 3.

>>41898624
You are a fucking moron that is completely uneducated and wrong in every regard. Watch the fucking videos at least before you criticize them. Why do people have the urge to comment on things that they have NO CLUE about?

Firstly, his videos focus on overweight, obese, and those with metabolic syndrome. He has cited dozens of studies in which the process of determining the cause of weight gain in these patients and a reluctance of weight loss, even when comparing patients on a caloric deficit. Insulin is directly responsible and is KNOWN to be response. It's very well understood function is to empty the blood of glucose, either by pouring it into lean tissue via insulin-activated receptors, or being stored as tryglyceride and fat. Since insulin-receptors are often downregulated in those with metabolic syndrome, this causes weight gain as fat instead of being used by other tissue. It doesn't dispute laws of thermodynamics or otherwise. The ultimate goal of fasting for Fung is to reestablish healthy insulin receptor concentration and establish healthy blood glucose activity, which in turn causes weight loss for overweight, obese, or diabetic patients. All of this is well documented and understood without a shadow of doubt or speculation.

>>41898729
I agree with this post. People who sell fad diets are still evil.

>>41898766
blah blah blah no one cares about your timeshare dude

>>41898780
tl;dr is a viable argument, yes.

>>41898784
I don't even know what point of mine you have an issue with.

>>41895319

One of the most interesting aspects of fasting (to me) aside from it's potential for weight loss is the effect that it has on hormones.

For body builders fasting may be less attractive, but for powerlifters and pure performance athletes the amount of circulating GH coupled with the increases in adrenaline may result in faster recovery and higher peak force output potential.

>>41898837

Additionally, during periods of re feeding following strenuous, multi-day fasts, there is evidence to suggest that the hormonal, anabolic response to food is increased as well as insulin sensitivity increasing.

The general consensus seems to be that bouts of periodic fasting (multi-day fasting), radically improves the body's efficiency in terms of energy expenditure and storage.

>>41895319
the study conducted on fasting found a 5% loss of total muscle mass in untrained individuals, in 2 weeks of fasting.
That is a large amount of muscle mass, and it could be higher for trained individuals.

>>41898837
HGH doesnt do shit for muscle growth. and you dont know if trained individuals get the same resonse as they already get a response from training.

Untrained individuals could simply get a better hormone profile simply because of the stress caused by fasting. As they dont recieve any stress from any other places, like exercise.

>>41898929

Why would it be higher for trained individuals? There's demand being placed on the system for tissue repair and maintenance

>>41898949

The body wouldn't release HGH if it didn't have a desire to maintain lean tissue homeostasis in the absence of food, which implies to me at least that while it may not directly impact muscle growth, it inhibits it's breakdown.

In a certain sense, training heavy while fasting (but avoiding high volume sets to failure), could potentially just be a method of redirecting stored fat energy to lean tissue with minimal losses to total muscle mass in the shortest time frame possible.

>>41896027

Mm, no.

Objectively unhealthy is a constant flow of sugars into your blood.

Hence why we have so many chronic diseases these days secondary to that fact.

The human body has only relatively recently been exposed to frequent high calorie meals throughout the day.

You seem to forget the majority of homo sapiens exist was spent in prolonged periods of fasting and brief bursts of feasting.

>>41898983
not eating anything cause you to lose muscle faster then with a high protein diet with a moderate deficit.
If untrianed individuals lose 5% of their total muscle mass in two weeks then that number is probably way higher for trained individuals. As trained individuals also lsoe more muscle mass during a cut than untrained individuals. The more muscle you have. the greater the loss will be.

>>41899001
Sugar isnt to blame for chronic diseases.

The sudden lack of movement/exercise and the caloric surplus is.

We used to eat the same amount of kcals 50 years ago, except we moved more, and didnt get fat becuase if the increased energy expenditure.

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>>41895319
>he got memed this easily

>>41896713
if you lose weight, have lower caloric requirements and go back to eating the way you were when you got fat, what do you think is gonna happen ? you're gonna get fat again, quicker this time BUT if you lose the weight, calculate your needs based on the your new bw and go from there its totally possible to keep all of it off, the most famous example of this is that one study years ago about a guy in scotland that fasted 382 days, lost ~120kg and ended up ~80kg, started eating got up to 90kg and five years later when they did a checkup on him he was still 90kg

>>41899050

> We used to eat the same amount of kcals 50 years ago, except we moved more, and didnt get fat becuase if the increased energy expenditure.

Patently wrong, go do even 5 minutes of study.

The magnitude of our caloric intake has increased every decade.

Constant consumption is to blame.

50 years ago the trend was to eat breakfast, a small lunch, and nothing till dinner.

These days its: breakfeast, morning tea, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner, dessert, snack before bed.

>>41895319
How long is "extended"? And prolonged calorie restriction will temporarily shut down bodily functions not necessary for survival, so expect to see your libido drop. Which may not be a bad thing, I'm just sayin.

>>41895319

Muscle
Protein
Breakdown/synthesis

I swear I only ever hear about this retarded fucking meme on /fit/.

Protein sparing modified fasts work, but water fasts are absolutely retarded.

>>41899035
Trained individuals on a cut tend to do a lot of activity to speed up catabolism.
Remember, losing weight is inherently catabolic.

Of course they are going to lose a lot of excess muscle mass.

Also, the people who lost 5% muscle mass lost it not because their body ate it up for energy/nutrients.

It used that muscle because their bodies are not heavy and fat and thus is not placing the constant stimulus on that muscles from just basic day to day activity that made it big in the first place.

There is a reason that when I tell fat as fat ass people how to lose weight I always ALWAYS tell them to do basic calisthenics workouts that have clear defined steps from totally untrained and weak to advanced to help maintain muscle as well as hurry along the weight loss.

Also since they no longer have the constant anabolic environment that comes with constant eating and rest they were bound to lose muscle.

Simple as that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the body wanting to burn muscle first and everything to do with the body simply getting rid of the excess musclea along with the fat.

I can garauntee you with 100% certainty that if those people that were doing that fast did some pushups squats situps and some kind of upper back exercise they're muscle loss would have been far lower.

>>41895319
Jason Fung is a meme

>>41899065
>fasted 382 days
Then he would be dead.

this is annectdoatal at best but my father used to do water fasts when he was young and now (at 60 yo) he has a mirriad of bone and joint problems (athritis being one of them)

water fasting is a meme

>>41899161
And what happened in the meantime?

>>41899136
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

>>41899161

water fasting is retarded and it requires constant supplementation or you will fucking destroy your body, and in some people they can actually die short term from it.

>>41899175
not a lot
he worked as a construction engineer
he didnt lift or put any particular effort on his joints
his body is just fucked from from a bad diet

>>41899080
there is an increase of about 250kcals since the 50s, its small, but the energy expenditure have still dropped a lot. Still doesnt mean that sugar is to blame for chronic diseases.

>>41899235

Except, sugar has an underlying pathology that ties into several chronic diseases.

Including: T2DM, peripheral vascular disease, coronary artery diseases, peripheral neuropathy, kidney damage, non-alcoholic liver disease.

That's off the top of my head.

My question is: where were you educated that sugar has no link to chronic diseases?

>>41899113
>Trained individuals on a cut tend to do a lot of activity to speed up catabolism.
if its 500kcals deficit it doesnt matter if its from increase in exercise or decrease in caloric consumption, in trained individuals.

>Also, the people who lost 5% muscle mass lost it not because their body ate it up for energy/nutrients.
¨
yes, thats the exact reason. Why would you think otherwise?

>It used that muscle because their bodies are not heavy and fat and thus is not placing the constant stimulus on that muscles from just basic day to day activity that made it big in the first place.
Lifting weights is the most muscle sparing thing you can do. The second most muscle sparing thing you can do is to eat enough protein with a moderate caloric deficit, when it comes to weight loss. People who fast doesnt eat calories nor do they eat protein.

And even if you are trained, the more muscle mass you have the easier it is to lose it. Which is why its more difficult for untrianed individuals to lose muscles than an advanced lifter.

Yes, you will always lose muscle on a caloric deficit, but the amount of muscle lsot will be different. Which is why everyone is doing a moderate caloric deficit with a high protein amount to hinder breakdown of muscle as much as possible.
Fasting doesnt have this quality. Youll lose more muscle mass on a fasting diet.

>I can garauntee you with 100% certainty that if those people that were doing that fast did some pushups squats situps and some kind of upper back exercise they're muscle loss would have been far lower.
yeah, lower than people who didnt lift. But more than people who lift and have a proper diet.

It seems more like fasting is the newest fad. were everyone think its magic. When in SOME cases it may be usefull, but for others its inferior.

>>41899258
>Except, sugar has an underlying pathology that ties into several chronic diseases.
i would like to see the evidence for it. Because ALL of the diseases you lsited are caused by eating too much and lack of exercise.

>>41899296

.. Right .. if you're not even going to type the phrases into google there's no point continuing.

Sure thing boss, all those people I see M-F with these morbidities didn't get them from a high sugar diet .. cool.

I'll pass that onto the AMA.

Anyway.

>>41899280
>if its 500kcals deficit it doesnt matter if its from increase in exercise or decrease in caloric consumption, in trained individuals.
okay...
it seems like you're trying to defend something but i'm not entirely sure what.


>yes, thats the exact reason. Why would you think otherwise?
You should really read everything.

>Lifting weights is the most muscle sparing thing you can do.
Resistance training in all forms is how you maintain muscle, stupid.
>The second most muscle sparing thing you can do is to eat enough protein with a moderate caloric deficit, when it comes to weight loss.
So not fasting or eating on too much of a cut spares muscle? HOLY SHIT!!
>People who fast doesnt eat calories nor do they eat protein.
Yes of course.
>And even if you are trained, the more muscle mass you have the easier it is to lose it. Which is why its more difficult for untrianed individuals to lose muscles than an advanced lifter.
Yes. But natural trained individuals who have a lot of fat to lose on strict HEAVY cuts or fasting will lose muscle mass. That's just how it is.

>Yes, you will always lose muscle on a caloric deficit, but the amount of muscle lsot will be different. Which is why everyone is doing a moderate caloric deficit with a high protein amount to hinder breakdown of muscle as much as possible.
Yes. But this is about fasting for heavy normal individuals. Nothing you've posted has fuck all to do with anything in my post and seems to be you defending the basic bodybuilding gym monkey bulk and cut thing.

>>41899321
Type what phrases the name of the diseases?
Type 2 diabetes is linked with obesity. Not sugar intake, all though it becomes a major factor after you have it.

Peripheral vasculare disease is linked with obesity, not sugar.

Coronary artery disease is linked with obesity, not sugar intake.

Peripheral neuropathy is a common symptom of T2DM.

And the last two are comon in obese people.

Obesity isnt caused by increased sugar intake. Its caused by overconsumption and lack of exercise. Just because some people get a lot of their calories from sugar doesnt imply sugar is the reason.

>>41899365

>Fasting doesnt have this quality. Youll lose more muscle mass on a fasting diet.
Massive natural bodybuilders with low bodyfat going on a strict cut or fasting will lose muscle period. If they are within the 12-15% bodyfat range and are fasting or doing a strict cut then it's a fucking garauntee that they will lose muscle mass. This has nothing to do with anything. This is you bringing up an extreme because you're terrified that I'll discredit da eat big then cut bodybuilding thing.

>yeah, lower than people who didnt lift. But more than people who lift and have a proper diet.
You are fucking retarded.

>It seems more like fasting is the newest fad. were everyone think its magic. When in SOME cases it may be usefull, but for others its inferior.
Fasting works.
Intermittent fasting works
Protein modified fasting works
Short fasts work.
There is no fad here.
This reality.
No, this is not for people with eating disorders and problems with food. This is for normal people who just want to feel better and drop a few pounds quickly.

So many people talk about this meme diet but why are there so few before and after pictures?

And don't post that youtube fat fuck, if you ACTUALLY watch his video he explains the pictures aren't a true before and after of the fast itself, the before picture was months before he went on the fast

If you basic TDEE is 2000 say, then fasting is 4 x more time effective than a 500 calorie deficit

Now will you lose more muscle in a 2 week fast or 8 week cut?

And those are an extra 6 weeks of bulking you get too

>>41899377
Because no matter how much the keto / if communities spout shit about how it's good for health / how it's not just for weight loss , it doesn't change the fact that 98% of both of theses communities are obese people who look like shit and just search way to be "healthy" will still being allowed to do "walking" as their only exercice .

If you're an obese person spending all of his time in front of his computer you could benefit from fasting because you're already in a near comatose state anyway .
If you aren't in this category of subhuman then there is no reason to fast , eat your fucking carbs and fruits and do fucking exercise , you get way more HGH and hormonal benefit from exercice fueled by carbs than through some meme fasting .

>>41899402
Walking is exercise.
As a matter of fact powerwalking burns more calories then heavy lifting with the added benefit of being able to do it longer and being able to do it every day.
And why is walking in quotation marks?

>>41899423
Source?

I'm sick of this cavemen were healthy meme

They were not fucking healthy

Nobody in history has been healthier than us or lived better lives

Why the fuck do people believe this crap? You want to live like an abo go into a forest.

>>41899446
>"Walking" is "exercise."

Maybe to americans

>>41899501
How many cavemen had diabetes?

Modern medicine has improved are lives but modern food is making it worse

>>41899512
Nobody force people to eat burger and nobody force people to watch Netflix all day longs .

>>41899508
The fact that this basic acticvity is shunned because it's seen as an "exercise" and inferior to running or lifting or whatever else shows how lazy people are.

If you walk just 1 extra hour a day and changed nothing else, you'll look and feel healthier. Period.

>>41899524
nobody force people to eat 3 meals a day, or eat every day

>>41899531
Well I do real sports and my TDEE is close to 4500 so I do need to eat multiple meals a day and not cut out on sugar like a ketard .

>>41899540
how is that relevant to this thread?

>>41899547
that instead of fucking trying to fast as much as possible and rely on 1200 Kcals a day people should move their fucking fat ass more often and bring their TDEE UP instead of their BMR down through stupid shit like fasting .

>>41899512
Maybe they all did. You don't fucking know.

>>41899554
There is no argument against fasting here, just "people should do what I do". Which of course works, but then so does fasting.

>>41899554
Your BMR drops because you lose weight. Not because of some mythical metabolism slow down.

Although your body WILL slow how many calories it will burn from any activity once the ghrelin levels are off and you'll lower your NEAT.
BUT if you increase your activity inspite of your lowered NEAT you might be able to offeset that somewhat.

>>41899554
move all you want caloric deficit has been proven time and again to be more effective than exercise.

quick don't stick

>>41899566
Yeah bruh , it's not like exercice CREATE a caloric deficit on top of metabolic adaptation to exercise .

>>41895330
You will if you aren't lifting. I prefer a psmf

>>41899579
You can exercise rest of the time, what is a 2 week fast compared to the whole year?

>>41899579
>on top of

Yes, just that. But the deficit can easily be achieved without any exercise at all.

I'm not knocking exercise and value it's benefits to overall health. But weight loss can be achieved just through calorie control.

Why not a 500 calorie a day diet?

>>41899606
Because putting a normal sized woman or a smaller man on a -500 calorie diet would be torture and basically be starvation anyway.

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>>41899512

How many cavemen lived beyond 29y of age?

The average life expectancy of the paleolithic man past childhood was 30 years of age.

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Why legitimately starve yourself instead of unfucking your diet altogether? How the fuck has a water fast ever come into the consciousness of a living human male?

All this time you could be completely changing how, what and when you eat instead you're going to do what unemployed house wives and teenage girls are doing and failing at.

>>41899606
What would be the benefits of 500 over 0?

Drawbacks are obvious, it would increase hunger significantly

>>41899579
Most people don't and can't move enough to offset how much they eat.

You're the dumbest motherfucker alive if you can't understand that basic simple fucking fact.

>>41899652
ANYNODY can pick up biking of swimming or rowing , ANYBODY .

>>41899652
Isn't that why your body has a base metabolic rate just to continue operating before accounting for physical activity?

If you don't like exercise just say so because that's literally the reason why people are starving themselves.

>>41899645
Why spend months on a semi starvation diet instead of just going full fasting ketosis and get it over with in a couple of weeks?

>>41895319
I'm thinking about doing it, I'm just not sure on what the vitamins I need are, and how I should schedule days for food.

>>41899660
Are you done?
Are you finished making a fucking fool of yourself?

Good.

NEAT accounts for 90% of all calories burned by physical activity.
Exercise is fucking nothing.
Your fagball sport that you play for not even 2 hours or whatever you're doing burns fucking nothing compared to what a normally highly active person who does not workout burns in a day.
NOTHING.

You are stating that TDEE is king because you fucking personally do enough activity with your sport that you obviously do 7 days a week to burn 4500 calories.

You're absolutely fucking retarded and should not be in this conversation.

You can't even comprehend the fact that many people physically can not do enough activity to do 4500 calories worth of activity!

Unless you're simply bringing up morbidly obese people who have a 4500 tdee from simply fucking existing. I really hope you're not, because you'd have gone completely off the rails and gotten lost in fucktardsville.

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>>41899687
Because you've at least learned something?

You've already got so fucking fat in the first place you are considering just consuming water, pills and salt as an every day thing and then likely going back to the same habits that got you to your starting point in the first place all the while you could spend this time actually getting physically active and changing everything about your every day diet.

Do whatever you want nobody will convince the OP or you for that matter anyways.

>>41899708
>You can't even comprehend the fact that many people physically can not do enough activity to do 4500 calories worth of activity!

Work up to it then bitchboy :^)

>>41899687

Because being in ketosis and in a fasting state is less favourable for muscle growth.

>>41899710
>Do whatever you want

So you finally admit you can't think of any real reason against fasting except for your bias against it and your opinionson what would happen post-fast

>>41899748
2 weeks of ketosis vs. 8 weeks of a deficit

hmm

>>41899721
I knew you were fucking stupid.
Go on.
Get out.
Leave.
Shoo
Shoo

>>41899375

No, muscle growth has been found in advanced athletes even when lean, because even when you're lean you still have a good ammount of lipds in your body that can be metabolized into energy.

The "you cant build muscle on a cut" meme is dead.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/gain-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

Being in a fasted state will absolutely eliminate all chances of maintaining your muscle not to mention growing, it's 100% inferior to regular controlled hypocaloric diets.

>>41899767
Make me faggot

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>>41899767
For that matter did you forget about BMR alongside NEAT? Oh wait no you just want to feel smug on an internet board

Enjoy the pills, water, salt and rebound salt afterwards, this shit is the next honest to god fucking DNP. All talk but when it comes to posting pics I assure you nothing will come of it.

>>41899757

>2 weeks of FASTED ketosis

Enjoy your muscle loss, I guess.

Ketosis is retarded, but a fasted ketosis is on a whole new level of mental retardation.

>>41899771
Strict long term cuts, the kind serious guys who want to lose fat quickly = muscles gone.

This is not a fucking meme. This is a fucking fact.
If I click on that fucking link and the cut is less then 500 calories and the cut lasts less then a month then you're fucking retarded.

>>41899804
>For that matter did you forget about BMR alongside NEAT? Oh wait no you just want to feel smug on an internet board
No retard I didn't.
The guy is claiming that he, who is more then likely a normal man and needs at most 2500 calories a day to maintain, plays as sport that is demanding enough that it burns 2000 extra calories a day.

And that's why fasting is bad.

I said that most people physically can not raise their TDEE high enough to offset how much they eat and called him a buffoon.

He then went on a deeply retarded rant that had fuck all to do with a single fucking thing posted anywhere and made an even bigger retard out of himself.

>>41899839

>Strict long term cuts, the kind serious guys who want to lose fat quickly = muscles gone.

Wrong, dead wrong.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26132746
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/abstract/1990/08000/the_effects_of_self_selection_for_frequency_of.3.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3411406/

Unless you're an absolute retard in training(causing too much muscle damage like a gym bro moron) you have no reason to lose muscle, or unless you're at your genetic limit or ridiculously lean which 99% of the people in this board aren't even close in obtaining.

>>41899875
SO YEAH
GOING FOR A CUT FOR TOO LONG AND TRAINING HEAVILY WHILE TRYING TO ATTAIN VERY LOW BODYFAT WILL CAUSE FUCKING MUSCLE LOSS!!!

BIG GODDAMNED SHOCK!!

>>41899839
You know fatty , I raise my TDEE to 4500 because all of my free time is spent doing that sport and I love it , fatty should find a sport that they like instead of power walking to the groceries store to buy potassium and magnesium supplement for their fast , 1 hours of light low impact cardio could add 600 calories to a fatty TDEE , i'm not telling them to raise their TDEE to 4000+ , but an extra 600 would already be more than enough .

NEVER EAT BELOW YOUR BMR , only cut through increased TDEE .

>>41899902
Because of like 3 study on obese or dadbod tier men the fasting community believe that it's the magical muscle sparing diet, but all of those fucker had no muscle in the first place

>>41899911
You're fucking stupid.
Shut up.

You're on 4chan at 3 in the morning making a complete ass out of yourself by LYING about playing some sport every day that pushes your tdee up to 4500 calories.

Get the fuck out of here.

>>41899902

Except you can gain muscle on a caloric deficit regardless of the time you are at a deficit, which was what was being argued.

You only lose muscle on a cut if you have a ridiculous caloric deficit and not eating enough protein to keep muscle protein synthesis elevated enough to compensate for the muscle protein breakdown, and the closer you are to 0% bf the harder it is, but even at 8-10% bf it is possible.
It doesn't matter how long the cut is, what matters is the speed with which you do it.

>>41899921
..
Anyway
Heavy people can fast and lose weight and spare muscle up until they are around 13-15% then they'll have to star worrying about losing a lot of muscle and performance.

>>41899929
I'm in Europe fucking cuck it's 1 PM here, and I do more than 4 hours of cycling a day mix of road and moutain , so YES my TDEE is in the upper 4000 .

>>41899931
So...yeah.
I'm not hearing anything novel or new.
Anything that is saying that I'm wrong.

You are litterally just describing basic body recomp. And that basic body recomp and muscle building ONLY happens if you have enough energy, meaning fat on you, and enough protein.
That's it.

You aren't building any amount of muscle if you are in the 10-12% bodyfat range and eating almost nothing.
I don't give a fuck what kind of workouts you do.

>>41899965
The guy replying to me originally was literally claiming it is not possible to build muscle on a cut, but it is possible and there have been trials done on athletes that are already pretty lean and have a good ammount of muscle who are able to do it.

Idk if you're the same guy.

>You aren't building any amount of muscle if you are in the 10-12% bodyfat range and eating almost nothing.
Why? The rate with which you can build muscle on a caloric surplus is miniscule, your muscles can only grow so much, just being at a caloric balance is gonna enable you to build 80% of all the muscle you can possibly build regardless of caloric intake.

>So...yeah.
I'm not hearing anything novel or new.

Then why are you even replying to me, I'm guessing you're not the same guy that just moments ago said and I quote " If they are within the 12-15% bodyfat range and are fasting or doing a strict cut then it's a fucking garauntee that they will lose muscle mass."

>>41899957
lol so rather than just eat a little less every day, everyone should just cycle for four hours every day instead.

kek

Imagine a scenario, 2 monkeys that haven't eaten in 3 days and their bodies need energy to find food.
One of them uses their fat for energy and the other uses it's muscle.

The monkey that burns fat keeps its strength and is able to find food. The monkey that burns muscle gets weak and doesn't have the strength to find food.

tldr; If we burned muscle instead of fat we'd be extinct.

>>41899136
he would only have died if he ran out of fat.

so no

boogie could do the same.

Guarantee that more than half you fucking faggots don't even look like you lift. You cunts can try all the fad diets you want, none of them will make you look better.

Eat like a normal human being and do some exercise you absolute subhuman cunts.

>>41901050
Agreed, do you people think the majority of guys with decent bodies are going full autist about fasting and all these stupid fucking diets? They are consistent with proper diets and exercise, you guys are all pathetic desu

>>41899190
what happens when you're done with your short term death?

My piss becomes burning acid if I don't drink enough.

>>41895319
It depends on what your definition of fasting is.

Are you talking about eating at a deficit while increasing your water intake? If so, this is a great way to lose weight. You just need to be sure that you calculate the calories that you need and don't eat too little.

Are you talking about replacing food with water for extended periods of time? No, this will simply cause your body to go into starvation mode and skyrocket your metabolism. Your body will consume your muscles while ignore your fat, and if done for long enough will cause all sorts of body disorders and diseases. Even if you managed to maintain a diet and didn't give in to your bodies intense cravings for food your end result would be a weak body with all the fat intact, making you look like shit.

Do the first, not the second.

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>>41895319
You have 10 seconds to convince me suffering through water fasting is worth it when you can simply eat in a solid calorie deficit, throw in a few cheat days here and there, and attain weight loss.

Water fasting might be faster for weight loss but it's far from ideal. Ideal is finding something that A) won't make you suffer too bad B) something you can remain consistent with and C) is do-able.

I guarentee you most people cannot water fast in their daily lives unless they are sitting at home on their computer desk the entire time. Most people have to get up and move around and burn energy and associate with people who eat around them. When you are moving around burning energy you get hungry as fuck, being around people who are eating after even a couple days of fasting is not do-able.

If you want to fast why not just do IF? Eat one meal a day, get your protein targets, workout, support keeping as much muscle mass as you can while losing fat. There is no way on a water fast with no protein that your body is achieving a solid nitrogen balance to keep your body from eating away at muscle fibers. Why push your metabolism and body through that when you don't have to?

Have some patience, eat in a deficit, workout, and in time you will eventually hit your goal weight. You will have to change a few things along the way (lower calories, increase energy expenditure, add in a few high calorie days to keep your metabolism going etc) but it's fucking sustainable.

I'm not arguing that water fasting will kill you or that it's bad for you, but it's far from ideal.

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>>41895319

How about you try it out and tell us your symptoms?

I just do short-term caloric fasts. 24-hours without food 1-2 per week. That does me just fine. I stay hydrated all day, though. Those are pretty damn easy. Water fasting, though? No, thanks.

>>41902122
>Water fasting might be faster for weight loss but it's far from ideal

desu if you just think about it, we as humans used to not eat every single day 3x a day for the past 2 million years of our evolution.

>>41898512

>starving

Nope. Fasting is driving around using up your gas, starving is pushing the car when you've ran out of gas.

>>41902156
So because a bunch of starving humans trying to survive who had a life expectancy of early 20's means water fasting is ideal?

Also pretty sure humanity has only been around like 200,000 years not 2 million.

>>41902210

cmon bro... i said "evolution". The whole reason why our body stores fat is because of this. Also they didn't die earlier because of their nutrion or at least I would not consider it as one of the biggest factors why.

The reason water fasting is beneficial is that our body is used to store fat and if you fast our body is using this fat for energy. Well you can say that a water fast is great for overweight people but not great for normal people or even people below 10% bodyfat.

>>41902122
King epic?

>>41899526
This is truth. Its aerobic excercise, not matter what you compare it to. It burns calories, albeit in a lower rate than running/ biking. The other anon doesn't seem to know that actuall lifting burns prettly few calories compared to cardio. Walking is legit.

>>41895330
It's actually pretty hard to accomplish. I agree with you if you meant the fastest way.

>>41899395
This tbqh, fasting is roughly 4x the speed of a regular 500 kcal deficit. It would surely follow that your average muscle loss would terms at 4x the speed. But as this poster said, fasting is preferred because it's extra time for bulking which, in the end, accounts for a greater net muscle growth over time.

> our body is used to store fat and if you fast our body is using this fat for energy.

Your body also needs vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids that it cannot synthesise that you deprive yourself on this retarded fast to lose weight all because you cannot count calories.

Your body also starts shutting down any non-essential processes as it just struggles to survive and is not getting any protein to repair itself.

Water fasting is an extremely dangerous thing to do especially with zero medical supervision and I don't want anyone who sees people doing it just because of some youtube video or forum post. If you have to fast, use IF, which has been medically proven to have benefits, is practiced by millions of people for a variety of reasons, medical or spiritual and is safe.

The water fast is honestly one of the most dangerous and idiotic fads I've seen recently and as much as I don't want people to die from doing them, I'm also hoping that a lot will so people won't do it.

>>41895319
you kill all the good gut bacteria which need fibers to survive

>>41902122
>I don't have the willpower to say no to food or to ignore my hunger for a short period of time so others should just do what I do, the post

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Nobody but me seems interested in fasting's effect on insulin sensitivity and androgen receptors.

"…And another one where the subjects actually did a 10-day water fast, then resumed eating and they were followed for 5 days as they consumed their normal meals, as you can see from the graph, their testosterone levels shot up like crazy and kept climbing for the 5-day post-fasting follow up. The likely explanation here is that their bodies became more sensitive towards androgens during the ruthless 10 days of no calories whatsoever."

I don't think anybody doubts that starvation is bad, but the data is showing that short bouts of it triggers an anabolic adaptive response.

>>41902560
>The water fast is honestly one of the most dangerous and idiotic fads I've seen recently


You will not be able to provide proof of this, you're just parroting ideas you've heard.

>>41899190
>it requires constant supplementation.
A single multivitamin a day and some salt. Holy fucking SHIT!!
>some people can die from it
No they fucking can't you mong. Unless there is something medically WRONG with them to begin with.

Some people are so bluepilled and unwilling to accept basic facts of human anatomy it's ridiculous.

>>41902560
>your body needs vitamins
thats why you take vitamins.
top quality post there bud.

>>41902660
Thats very interesting, what's the source on that graph?
Also it's not "starvation" until you are suffering and dying. "True hunger" is something entirely separate from food cravings. This takes months.

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>>41895319
>Your body wants amino acids
>You aren't giving it any
>Your muscles are 20% protein and so your body starts cannibalizing your muscles during catabolism

Go ahead and water fast just don't come back and complain when you reach DYEL skinny fat levels you dumb fuck.

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>>41904751
Are you proposing that your body literally consumes most muscle mass and leaves you with fat more so than muscle mass? If so do your research you fucking retard

>>41904718

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2686332

"Short-term fasting increased the GnRH-elicited LH response by 67% in the non-obese group (LH incremental areas 2147 +/- 304 vs 3581 +/- 256, p less than 0.01), and the corresponding testosterone response by 180% (testosterone incremental areas 111 +/- 61 vs 311 +/- 49 micrograms.l-1.min-1, p less than 0.01)."

https://www.anabolicmen.com/how-to-increase-androgen-receptors/

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>>41904894
Oh look another idiot who doesn't understand how oxidative phosphorylation works. Go ahead and fast you moron and then tell me what you lose more of, fat or muscle.

>>41904978

>oxidative phosphorylation

What does that have to do with muscle loss?

>>41905026
It has to do with the fact that your body can break down muscle for nutrients way faster than it can with fat. That's why you need good protein consumption to prevent muscle mass loss.

>>41905064

For the cellular membrane to absorb free fatty acids is a simple one step process... the breakdown of proteins is a complex and inefficient multi-step process, which is why it's always the option of last resort.

>>41904678
>>41905165
You body cannot get amino acids from fat. How can you retards not get this.

Your body cannot synthesise essential amino acids at all. A water fast won't give you them. Keep being stupid to lose weight fast.

>>41905208

You just said the body can break down muscle for energy way faster than it can with fat, now you're saying you can't get amino acids from fat?

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>Mfw seeing this thread during fast

>>41905064
not true. Your body does indeed break down about 7,1g of muscles everyday for the first week, since we need BCAA but once you past this week it goes down to 2,0g a day.

Because you can't lift when fasting.

Nobody has ever claimed you can synthesize amino acids from body fat.

>>41905255
Do you know what amino acids are?

>>41905272
Because you can't. If you could then they wouldn't be "essential".

>>41896079
It's not a "diet", really. It's just a prepackaged meal plan money grab. Nothing wrong with it from what I have read if you don't mind throwing away your money.
nice b8 too

>>41905281

First this guy says it's easier to digest your skeletal muscle for energy than it is to digest body fat, then he switches it up and says I'm retarded because you can't synthesize BCAA's from bodyfat.

>>41905308
This is only my second post in the thread. Stop assuming that everyone that disagrees with you is the same person

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>>41904978
>>41905208

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>>41905366

>>41902660
Well it would go back to normal pretty fast... Test drops low during a long fast

>>41905681

So cycle.

>>41905366
can't i just do this on keto + exercise

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>>41895319
You know what would convince me this is not just a meme? Actual before and after pics. Or better yet a video series of someone actually doing the "diet".

But because it is a bad meme, all you can present are misinterpreted abstracts and shitty chink doctors

>>41905322
t. Community College Nutritionist

>>41905732
technically speaking no because protein (amino acids) trigger the release of insulin which inhibits lipolysis but if you're goal is purely to shed fat you can do keto and lose fat like crazy still. May I suggest you watch this though? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od92UbXCCYI

>>41905745
t. Guy who is wrong and insults others to hide it

>>41905366
> -5 days of fasting
cool graph bro, really well made

>>41905739
Ive lost about 15kg in 3 months using CICO. I'll be uploading pics on my next weigh in, and when I started this diet, I saw water fasting threads everywhere, surely at least one of them would have some impressive weight loss pics?

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My sons,

Can you not fast for 40 days?

-J

>>41905784
keto + exercise produces effects similar to fasting minus the intense autophagy right? if i wanted my body to eat up scar tissue how long should I fast for? got any studies on hand that prove fasting is legit for this?

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>>41905844
this was me shortly before ending a 4 day fast

>>41905832
Thanks bro ms paint is still good for something https://www.dietdoctor.com/fasting-muscle-mass

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>>41905872
For scar tissue? No I don't believe anyone has done fasting studies specifically for scar tissue removal but for fat loss and being safe see>>>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

>>41905896
no offense but all you did was deplete your glycogen stores and water weight...

literally eat some carbs and you'll like how you did 4 days ago

>>41905896
Before pic?

>>41895319
>extended water fasting is bad

You're missing the point

>>41905940
nigger i went from 198 to 188 and stayed at 189 since the fast
>>41905844
xD u prolly lost more muscle cuz of that reddit tier diet

>eople fasted approximately 36 hours and compared to those with caloric restriction alone. At 32 weeks, there was 1.6 kg lean tissue lost with calorie restriction, but only 1.2 kg with fasting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27569118

>>41905739
>I cant be arsed to look up before and after pics from fasting.
>Please spoon feed me.
>Id believe a youtube channel before a peer reviewed study any day
Another top shelf frogposter.

>>41905940

After two days of zero calories your only source of fuel is stored body fat, so that can't be true in a literal sense.

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>>41905959

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>>41905940
>>41905896
"When you consume carbohydrates, your body converts them to glycogen, which is then stored in the muscles for energy. For every gram of glycogen stored, you gain approximately 2.7 grams of water. This water retention occurs because your kidneys hold on to sodium in response to carbohydrate consumption." Go on keto my dude :)

>>41905832
As in 5 days before the fast starts you fucking moron

>>41905832
Are you legally retarded?

>>41905977
Do you have a massive ass or APT?

thinking of doing a 24 hour fast (first time)tomorrow, any tips/things i should know.

>>41906075
i have a thicc ass from squatting

>>41906098

Gut yourself tonight; eat until you're completely full and satiated, then stop at midnight, then don't eat anything else until tomorrow night @ midnight.

As the water in your body depletes it thickens your blood and makes it harder for organs to expel toxins. Dramatically increasing your risk of heart attack, stroke, or blood clotting.

500 calories a day will yield almost the same amount of fat loss and get you in ketosis

If i fast one day every week, does it work?

>>41906246
And?

>>41906313

It might make you feel better and reset your appetite, but calories in/calories out still applies.

>>41906339
So i wont lose the same weight as if i fasted for 4 days straight, instead of once per week in a month?

>>41896079
First of all, those fat fucks would have to have the willpower to read through a whole book. They don't even have the willpower to put down the fork

>>41906393

I'm not qualified to say one way or the other for sure, but I imagine that cumulatively, the weight loss would be close to identical, although an extended four day fast would probably yield a stronger adaptive response.

>>41895319
How much salt to not die?

>>41905739
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E484qiQXxzM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6OfRL1yt4Y

>>41906894
that first video is NOT a before and after, listen to what he actually says, the first image was taken months before he started the fast

the second video is extremely unimpressive

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>>41906894

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>>41906894
THE POWER OF DIET AND EXERCISE

>>41906894
>>41907258
>>41907282

How will fast-cucks recover? Only 2 months and he looks so much better

>>41906313
Problem with one day a week is you'll just feel hungry as fuck and light headed. Try to do 3 days to at least give your body some time in ketosis>>41905401

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>>41907258
>>41907282

this thread has convinced me to do it

now how do i do it?

>>41895319

Just want to report to my fellow /fit/izens... currently day 2.5 of no-eat and have been doing heavy but brief lifting in the gym the last 3 days... the feeling is incredible. I can feel life churning on the inside, it's the best way I can describe it, but the euphoric sensation is moderate to high.

>>41908279
>I can feel life churning on the inside

that's your body literally eating itself

>>41895319
The feedback loops between leptin and ghrelin will become destabilized and you will not receive micronutrients.

>>41908519

Good! There's plenty to eat! Eliminate all redundancies. Smooth out all rough edges. Maximize efficiency. The free ride of empty self gratification is over... Do you want life? Reach for it.

>>41899771
>advancd athletes

there in the top 1% already you retard. they have better genetics than you

>>41905366
thats from IF you dumb fuck not waterfasting. fucking IF isnt some magic shit, all it does i forces you to eat in a smaller window,thus consuming less, and WOW BEING IN A DEFICIT. please dont site that dumb study that says ur HGH and everything else shoots up 100%. That study was done with one person, and even if it does it doesnt give you the same god damn muscle sparing properties as synthetic GH that you inject you turd.

> science says that when fasting your body utilizes 90-95% of energy demands from body fat and 5-10% of energy from muscle mass
> every single nutritionist, doctor, health professional, guy at your local gym, mum and dad says your body immediately starves and preserves bodyfat and uses primarily muscle mass

:^)

>>41908531
oh shit ive heard of this , starvation meme

>>41906894
This guy didn't have a job if I am right? For anyone working, I can't see a fast this long being practical in any way.

>>41909516
Also it's complete bullshit as demonstrated
>>41907258
>>41907282


The before and after were NOT caused by fasting

>>41896059
Underrated kek

>>41896176
ConventionAL, fucking gook.

>>41902104
don't post again

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>be me
>be caveman
>experience first famine
>immediately lose all muscle and die
>humanity becomes extinct

>>41910787
caveman were fucking dyel in the first place .

>>41902104
"No, this will simply cause your body to go into starvation mode and skyrocket your metabolism. Your body will consume your muscles while ignore your fat"
Retardation; the post.

>>41911060
it was ironic, i hope

>>41911007
not an argument

>>41899647
Minus 500, idiot. As in TDEE -500.

>>41909075

How is that an argument for fasting you absolute fucking moron?
Read my post again, carefully, advanced athletes regardless of their genes have to maximize their nutrition and training in order to get any gains, and they still get gains on caloric defficits, the average faggot in this shitty board has no business doing water fasting.

>>41911251
Yeah, he's the idiot for assuming that guy (you?) meant what he said. Twat.

>>41910787

>be caveman
>experience famine
>malnutrition rampant
>average life expectancy is around 30 years

We should totally emulate our ancestors :^))

>>41906246
It's not fasting from water. It's fasting while consuming only water, and some vitamins and mineral supplements.

>>41911351
Not me. Even if it was, though, nice ad hominem, newfriend. This is a fitness board and eating -500 is common jargon, which someone who's even slightly informed would recognise and understand.
>read the fucking sticky

>>41911517
consdering we're talking in a thread about eating nothing, why wouldn't 500 be unreasonable to discuss? kys

>>41911517
>nice ad hominem, newfriend

>>41911251
>Minus 500, idiot
>idiot

Kill yourself, kid.

>>41895319

>the brain needs glucose to work normally. Glucose cannot be obtained through burning your own fat, it's obtained from carbs

>when in a calorie deficit your body will burn itself to give you the calories you need to live and move. First it will burn fat and muscle and then all living tissue until you die. water fasting = 0kcal = quick death

>Do you want to look like a fucking skelleton? Because without consuming protein you are just giving your body no reason to preserve it. Which is alright if it's what you want, but then i don't know what the fuck you are doing in /fit/

>>41910787
are you stupid? Cavemen didn't have any fucking muscle besides the bare minimum. They were just gatherers and runners wtf do you think they lifted rocks 3 times a week doing starting Rock? No you dumbass the reason humans are one of the mammals with less fast-twitch fibers is because we suck ass at mucle building genetics while we exceed at endurance-related activities like what do you know walking to gather fruits and out-running animals.

>>41897915
ONE person
nice proof

>>41911592
t. idiot

>>41911606
people of ancient times were much more physically strong than us.

yes they did starting rock.
you fucking retard

>>41911668
oh shit man you got me there. definitive proof/10. I'm going to start water fasting asap holy shit

>>41911655
i r8 this b8 1/8 m8 kys

>>41897915
geez it happened to this one person, i'm sure it will happen to everyone!
Oh btw i just heard Steve Jobs dropped out of college and ended up filthy rich so the same will happen to me!

>>41911606
>do you think they lifted rocks 3 times a week doing starting Rock?
jej

>>41896099
you need about 2500 calories a day to maintain as a regular guy. some may need more, some less depending on many factors but lets go with this figure.

say you fast for 3 days at a time ( which you shouldn't do ), that would mean that you should consume 10000 calories during the day you are eating to make up for lost cals ( 7500 ) and the cals you need for that day ( 2500 ). and again, it is unhealthy do it, and generally most people couldn't do it.

water fasting might work if you're a fat ass who doesn't do much physical activity and who can feed his body with the lard he carries around. i do agree with intermittent fasting tho

>>41895319
>You have 10 seconds to convince me extended water fasting is bad without saying "it's a meme!" or spouting other convention wisdom.
You have 10 seconds to convince us that you're not a lying faggot and are sitting there eating pizza and chugging a 2-liter bottle of soda even as we speak.

>>41911927
But if you're trying to lose weight you're trying to burn calories

>>41898512
Intermittent fasting vegan appears

>>41911927

Err .. you don't eat to make up for the calories lost.

Do you actually think you're supposed to eat 10,000 calories after you fast 3 days? Jesus .. I don't know how /fit/ gets so confused on topics so easily.

>>41911606

> look at modern day equivalents to prehistoric man

> they're all muscular and lean.

mmk

hey maybe you shouldn't try to use sweeping generalisations based on pure speculation as an argument?

thanks pumpkin.

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>>41909368
Lmao why are you so mad big boy I'm just here to state information regarding fasting, and there's a difference between a fasting deficit and caloric restriction you shithead and it is some pretty magical shit

>>41909368
>thats from IF you dumb fuck not waterfasting

What are you basing this statement on? Looking at the graph, I'd say it's based on a continuous fast, not intermittent fasting.

>>41911348
do u have any proof? bro chad and pro athletes dont count macros lmao. they eat what they want when they want and probably meet with a nutritionist that reccomeneds them food, but then you see NFL players who go out and drink and party and smoke weed. Pretty sure they would still be at the top even without the right nutrition because they have the best genetics u dumb thrd

>>41912280
what are you even talking about when you say modern day equivalents to prehistoric man?

Do you think prehistoric man fought animals to the death with their bare hands?? No, they were mainly scavengers and the little hunting they did did not require any muscle whatsoever because it was outrunning animals in africa and using spears and such in europe. They were all lean and endurance-based built, so little to no muscle. Why? Because they didn't have McChickens to get 3000kcal from, they had to live with almost no calories everyday so they couldn't possibly sustain a heavy and muscular body.

And above all that, the main point of this thread is water fasting what does that even have to do with caveman that ate every day fruits and berries found in the wild???

This whole thread is a joke and baitland to confuse stupid noobs that will think that only drinking water is somehow a solution to being fat. Guys if fasting with water was a magical solution somebody would have prooved it a while ago instead of it being the cause in africa and asia for thousands of deaths due to malnourishment.

Fourth day no eat + heavy lifting in gym. Feel fine. Better than fine, feel above average.

Unusually horny.

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>>41909368
Have you actually even read that study?????????