Who should go on the keto diet? Everyone?

>>41882006

no one.

/thread

>>41882006
mouthbreathing retards who cant into normal diets and macro tracking so they fall into memes and this>>41882023

>>41882006
>Who should go on keto
Maybe some epileptics?
>Who does go on keto
People that don't understand the basics of nutrition, like you

>>41882006
All that estrogen with no fiber. You want to be a he-she?

>>41882006
Prediabetics and epileptics.

I'm not convinced it's even safe for anyone else to go on it, especially not for people who eat a lot of protein. Lots of fatty protein-having food is high in sodium, which places stress upon the kidneys. The diet, when used by people looking to build muscle, is high in protein, which can place additional stres upon the kidneys. Ketone bodies themselves also change the pH of the blood, again, stressing the kidneys. In all seriousness I believe ketogenic diets may put you at risk for kidney disease/damage or cardiovascular complications or both.

>>41882006
Heart attack

>>41882249
guess you shouldnt drink water becuz that stresses the kidneys

>>41882006
looks disgusting, how's your blood pressure

>>41882544
Excessive water does stress the kidneys, yeah. More than a gallon a day is completely unnecessary.

carb addiction is a very real thing, as evidenced by this thread. I can't blame them - they were indoctrinated from birth to believe fat is evil and carbohydrates are essential in a healthy diet.

>>41882023
>>41882028
>>41882046
all you nerds ever do on this board is talk shit
>keto is a meme
>nofap is a meme
>bulking is a meme
fuck yourselves

>>41882249
your level of retardation is staggering

>>41882570
the sad thing is they never actually try it, almost like the're looking for excuses

some ketofags are worse than vegetarians in their smugness and selection bias

>dude I drank 10 liters of soda every day but then I did like keto and I suddenly felt better for some reason
>everyone who eats carbs consume 500 grams of sugar a day or something you can't have a healthy diet while eating POISON

>>41882006

Fat manchildren who can't into greens

>>41882570
Keto is the shit, I fuggen love meat, just the low energy sucks because low carb. It would be healthier if people remembered to eat vegetables.
>bulking is meme
What fucking retard said that?

>>41882593

anon tells you legit effects based on renal physiology and you call him retarded? neck yourself.

>>41882006

Serious answer: The ones who will benefit from it most are fatties and diabetics.

>>41882698
This just told me that you have no idea what you're talking about. Go anywhere keto is discussed / shilled and you'll see advice that veggies are just as important as meats and dairy. If anything I ate way more greens on keto than I ever did with any other diet.

>>41882593
You wanna elaborate on why he's retarded champ?

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>>41882006
see ya soon

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>>41882023

>>41882593
Ah, sorry, you're right. Surely your vile smelling acidic urine and unusually frequent urination are signs of stellar renal health and not signs of your kidneys desperately struggling to maintain pH homeostasis. My bad.

just eat vegetables and protein niga shit

eat to feel good and have the energy for your day.

i can't see how anybody is feeling good after stuffing a fatty as shit burger with extra fatty cheese down their throat.

you'd need a fuckin nap after that

>>41882006
Keto is retarded. Zero Carb is the optimal human diet.

Anyone to redpill me on what is true keto?

>>41884195

zero carb high fat moderate protein.

>>41882006
Healthy people can tolerate keto diets alright. The ones who should not go on a keto diet under any circumstance are diabetics and those with kidney problems.
People with hypertension, heart disease, and arterial sclerosis should not go on a heavy meat/saturated fat keto diet if they insist on doing it, but it would be safer not to.
I'm sure there are other similar conditions that wouldn't take keto well, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

>>41884174
>just eat vegetables and protein niga shit
that's literally keto tho

>>41882006
Fatties and obeses. People needing to lose 30+ of fat. Problem is a lot of them think it's ok to just go eat all the fat they want. I lost 30 pounds on it. Now I've switched to just low carb.

>>41884247

Hint: what's the 3rd macro group?

>>41884290
unnecessary

>>41884302

hint: what is the thing that defines a keto diet that isn't present in vegetables and protein?

starts with F--

it's a macro group

Type 2 Diabetics and people wanting to cut weight

>>41884323
Faps

>>41882006
People who have trouble cutting out both fat AND sugar. Also people with trouble controlling themselves around sugar and are approaching the diabetes danger zone. People with allergies to sugar/artificial sweeteners. People who have trouble getting enough iron in their diet or are bad at absorbing iron (this can also be solved by taking a multivitamin though). Women on their periods who are losing a lot of iron (again, multivitamin can solve). People with overly high potassium levels who need to cut back on potassium (this can also be solved by just not eating foods that have a lot of potassium).

everyone knows you need bread and sugar to survive OP don't be stupid!

Consuming high amounts of carbohydrates also helps keep your kidneys healthy, I guess

>>41884179
Zero carb is literally keto

nigger

>>41882570

The first two are true, but bulking being a meme is a meme.

>>41882570
no fap isnt a meme.

>>41882570
I lost 16 pounds and im only on my fourth week, keto aint no job

How do you get nutrients on keto? Vegetables are relatively carbohydrate dense right?

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>>41882908
KEK

>>41882070
Of all the wrong things on that plate one could talk about you pick memey broscience estrogen shit instead, good work

>>41885834
Green Leafy vegetables are low in carbs and chock full of nutrients.

Please feel free to fucking enlighten me on keto vs caloric deficit
>constant war with figuring out TDEE
>carb limit is easier

I'm trying not to look like shit while not dying. My poolooian doctor said low carb is the way to go for better health and fat loss

>>41882070
t. phytoestrogen (which are much worse) guzzling cuckboy

>>41885834
if you don't want to eat veggies you know multivitamins exist right

>>41882249
>especially not for people who eat a lot of protein.
>keto

would you at least take a quick glance at some info about [before] flapping your mouth? you make yourself look stupid.

>>41882249
>Lots of fatty protein-having food is high in sodium

Nope, keto can actually create sodium deficiency, and it is recommended to take sodium and magnesium supplements when on keto.

Damn, you really fucked this up, son

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>>41882249

Prediabetics should not go on keto. Prediabetics should eat complex carbohydrates unsaturated fats to become more insulin sensitive. Epileptics have something to gain from keto, but it's not necessarily a safe diet for them either. In the research on epileptic children that keto is known for, they were closely monitored and showed a wide range of side effects due to the diet.

>>41886415
I actually am not even really sure where to begin on this. Yes, I am aware, you need to take more sodium because your body is actively flushing fluids from your body in an effort to normalize your pH levels. That doesn't mean your kidneys appreciate having that much additional filtration stress placed upon them. Increased sodium intake has been linked to increased blood pressure, and increased blood pressure can cause damage to the glomerular capsules of your nephrons, especially when your blood has a high concentration of things to be filtered out, such as your excess sodium and ketones from your meme diet. The sodium doesn't just disappear from your system once it goes in, it needs to get filtered out somewhere, and that somewhere is your kidneys.

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>>41882006
Is that mayo and mustard?

>>41886529
it's cheese retard

>>41886441
I'll take your word for that. I mostly just assumed that completely removing carbs from a diet would result in a change in homeostatic levels of blood insulin and thus increase cells sensitivity to the hormone but my understanding of the exact details of insulin sensitivity and diabetes in general are lacking, so again, I'll take your word for it. That was irresponsible of me.

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If you want to pile cheese on top of mystery meat you may as well do GOMAD you estrogen ridden queen

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>>41886547
>I'll take your word for it. That was irresponsible of me
it's irresponsible to take the word of a 4chan nigger

>>41886529
Mayo and mustard go very well together. You should try it sometime.

>>41886396
Im sorry, I suppose to most people on this board and in the fitness community in general "high protein" must be a pretty high bar. I know the diet is characterized by high a high fat macro percentage. I mean high protein in comparison to the RDI value for protein. Typically healthy kidneys have no issue filtering out the waste products of amino acid metabolism on high protein diets, but as I've discussed in other posts, ketogenic diets place your kidneys in chronic elevated stress that may put them at increaed risk for damage when then combined with higher protein intakes.

>>41886547

>I mostly just assumed that completely removing carbs from a diet would result in a change in homeostatic levels of blood insulin

Going from simple to complex carbohydrate or eating more vegetables can lower blood insulin levels. Keto and very low carb diets usually but not always lower insulin, and they lower them for different reasons. Less insulin in the blood doesn't always mean more insulin sensitivity; complex carbs increase insulin sensitivity which then leads to lower insulin levels because the insulin signalling is more efficient. Attempting to lower insulin via a low-fat, moderately low protein diet is just trying to avoid dealing with insulin sensitivity altogether rather than fixing the problem. You don't get better at utilizing carbohydrates by not eating any carbohydrates.

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Stop eating.

you should do keto for your health in general, not just cutting
your heart, liver, teeth etc will thank you a few months in

>>41886715

Or even better, eat a healthy diet

>>41886678
That makes sense I suppose, any reading you can recommend on the topic? Not even necessarily studies, but just info on the mechanics of glucose and regulation of insulin sensitivity, anything like that? I'm curious now to read up some more on this, since it seems like everyone and their mother is talking about insulin these days.

>>41886733
define healthy

>>41882570
No fap is a meme though, Anon.

>>41886715
with atherosclerosis, steatosis, and reduced bone mineral density???

>>41882028
id agree with this. lard asses have such little self control that you need to give them strict and simple guidelines to follow. otherwise they wuill cut every corner possible and end up even fatter than before.

>>41886736
http://www.who.int/suggestions/faq/en/
>Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/-y
>a native English suffix of adjectives meaning “characterized by or inclined to” the substance or action of the word or stem to which the suffix is attached

>>41882249
The only legitimate worry about sodium is that it might raise your blood pressure, which isn't a problem in anybody who has a healthy cardiovascular system from exercise. The degree of fear people have for sodium is meme tier overblown. Not to mention that a ketogenic person is going to need a lot more electrolytes in general to maintain hydration without carbs.

If you eat your vegetables and stay hydrated, keto will be no problem for your kidneys. These will help to balance the pH of your blood before it gets to your kidneys, so you will have less of a need for additional calcium and less chance of developing a kidney stone.

>>41882531
>>41882547
Fine. If you accidentally raise your protein intake, there's some danger of increasing your blood pressure. But it's not much, was deemed a non issue in the long term.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

>>41882046
>Low carb, high fat diet.
>Somehow not macro tracking

>>41882698
Greens are keto. Very important on keto. There's not such a thing as a food that makes you healthy just to have eaten in. It's about your whole diet.

>>41882765
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

>>41882908
Literally what?

>>41884174
Carbs are way worse for causing food related lethargy. On keto, the energy is much more consistent and even. Ask anybody who has done keto.

>>41884195
Keto is short for ketogenic, as in the, the diet makes you ketogenic. If you are ketogenic, you fully utilize keytones for energy. Your CNS works better on keytones. Your fat is a much better source of energy than muscle while you're ketogenic. It simulates a pre-agricultural explosion mouth bacterial ecology, improving dental health. Cancer usually can't be ketogenic, I've seen a family friend make literally a full recovery from a fairly dire cancer after discovering keto.

Eat little to no carbs, and no more protein than you need for synthesis (protein as fuel is actually glycogenic).

>>41884236
Saturated fat is not the danger for those with hypertension problems. Protein and LDL are.

>>41884323
As long as we're talking about food types (which we are, "vegetables" isn't a macro), proteins have a lot of the fat you need for keto.

>>41885834
Leafy greens. You're also gonna need dat fiber. Eat these in addition to supplemental electrolytes, micros, and fiber. These are real deficiencies of keto.

>>41886017
The thing is, your base metabolism will not adjust for regular calorie deficit on keto. Not only will you burn fat very easily, you will have a higher TDEE in general, making the cut much easier.

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>>41886565
>>41882070
>Psychosomatically produce symptoms of high testosterone after reading some stuff about phytoestrogens.
>Going around calling people queens cause you're so manly now.

>>41882006
enjoy your fucked up endocrine system
I put this on the same level as the vegan crap

>>41886644
You don't metabolize protein in ketogenesis. It's unuseful as an energy source, instead only being used for synthesis.

>>41886986

>Cancer usually can't be ketogenic

Don't know what that phrasing is supposed to mean, but don't start saying shit like keto cures cancer.

>>41886792
Good, now that you defined it in a way nobody ever disagreed on, I can continue to assert that keto is healthy. And when you contradict me, and I ask you why you think I'm wrong, you can tell me without being a retarded jackass.

>>41887108
I wouldn't, because that's a loaded term in the first place that can't be correct. Keto is an effective way of avoiding most cancer, and has been demonstrated as being an effective treatment for many well developed cancers.

Intermediately lengthed periods of fasting are even better for preventing cancer. You become ketogenic and starve out any cancers in your body. 4-7 days will do the trick.

>>41886986
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587
A biased opinion piece written by a shill who's funded from companies that make low carb programmes, supplements, and convenience foods is sure to have the truth

>>41886678
Recently diagnosed type 2 diabetic here.

Everything I read is contradictory. How do I go into remission? Low carb, keto, or white rice and sugar like that quack on YouTube recommends?

>>41882006
Yes, everyone would benefit from keto. Too bad people hate feeling healthy and energetic because they are used to snorting up sugar every 30 minutes. They get cranky otherwise.

>>41882006
literally JUST EAT LESS CALORIES holy fuck its not that hard just like fucking STOP EATING so much its fucking EASY goddamn FUCK

>>41887149

> Keto is an effective way of avoiding most cancer, and has been demonstrated as being an effective treatment for many well developed cancers.

Bull the fuck shit. If you fell for the "cancer feeds on sugar" line, that's a misleading statement unrelated to diet, and cancer cells can also feed on ketones and cholesterol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3507492/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3896822/

>>41887177

>Low carb, keto, or white rice and sugar like that quack on YouTube recommends?

No fad diets. Eat what you should have eaten before you got diabetes. Whole foods, no processed fatty junk foods, lots of vegetables, legumes, fruits, nuts, and whole grains.

>>41886986
Sodium raises your blood pressure by changing the osmotic gradient between your kidneys and blood to favor water retention in the blood. No level of fitness will change how osmosis works. You deplete your blood sodium so quickly on keto because the sheer volume of blood your kidneys are filtering is much greater than it would be in a standard diet due to the invariably raised acidity that occurs with high concentrations of ketone bodies.

Staying hydrated on keto means exposing yourself to increased sodium levels just to maintain electrolyte balance and putting yourself at unnecessary risk for renal and cardiovascular complications. While I'll grant that you might be able mitigate your risk of calcium leeching, I don't see how you can avoid mild metabolic acidosis and increased renal workload, simply due to the nature of ketones. The body's most effective and utilized solution for neutralizing pH is filtration through the kidneys, and no matter how healthily you eat, this will remain the case.

Basically, increasing your kidneys workload per nephron unit while simultaneously increasing your blood pressure mimics the symptoms of early stages of kidney disease and may very well put you at risk for acute glomerulonephritis or even permanent kidney damage.

>>41887256
You know being a dick makes it a lot harder to absorb your information unbiasedly. I just want to defend myself now, so I honestly couldn't give a fuck about what you have to say. Just because of your tone.

But you don't care, do you. You never knew anybody could have anything but a negative response to an argument, because you never made an argument anything but negatively.

>>41887394
If you're worried about alkalinity, there are ways of combating keto. But, in general, it's hard to say how severe the additional load on your kidneys is. Lowering your pH should increase the work of your kidneys which should force you to eat more sodium which should further work your kidneys which is bad in general and Don't forget to mention how you should be at a greater risk of hypertension... It's all devoid of valuable context. I've been on keto a long time, my stats are perfect. That's all I've got without doing research.

>>41887728

>You know being a dick makes it a lot harder to absorb your information unbiasedly. I just want to defend myself now, so I honestly couldn't give a fuck about what you have to say. Just because of your tone.

Don't give a fuck if you're too thin skinned to accept information if someone isn't overtly nice to you. Just wanted people reading the thread to not believe dangerous psuedoscience.

>>41887728
>I admit defeat but since you did it meanly I take it back. You hurt my feelings, so who's the real winner here? Obviously me.
t. Someone in the science community who has to deal with people rudely shitting on your "beliefs" and watches as others do it to each other as well. The people who can't handle it leave, and the smart ones can see past their precious little ego and realize knowledge is more important.
You would make a poor scientist.

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>>41882570
but no fap is a meme you retard. I cannot phantom how any retard can think that not touching your dick can have any health benefits.

>>41882006
people who have insulin related issues and need to lower blood glucose and maybe some epileptics

low carb vs keto which is better????

>>41882570
those are all memes, clean keto and clean bulking is alright though. Your welcome n00b

>>41887059

> As long as we're talking about food types (which we are, "vegetables" isn't a macro), proteins have a lot of the fat you need for keto.

No they don't, hence why every keto thread is filled with people covering shit in cheese and bacon & oil just so they can achieve the minimum requirements to be on 'keto'.

It's like keto has literally no meaning anymore, half this thread is people thinking low carb is keto.

>>41888308
>half this thread is people thinking low carb is keto

explain the difference

>>41888466

Low carb is low carb.

Keto is low carb/high fat/moderate protein.

The thing that defines keto is the high % of dietary fat intake.

Somehow this information has been lost to the retards of /fit/.

>>41888466
you can do low carb and not get into ketosis, while the whole goal of keto diets is to get into ketosis and stay there

>>41882023
This!

Omg fucking retards eat carbs or youll die lol

>>41882006

mentally retarted and people that want to look good while getting an heart attack or a stroke.

>>41886986
jesus christ, bro you are like 5000 steps behind nutrion.

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>Be me, drinking beer and eating like shit gain a fuck ton of weight
>"Fall for keto meme"
>Lose 27 pounds in about 2 months strength has still been retained, Probably out lift most of you faggots.
>Use to drink about 2 sips and a 5 hour energy per day
>now have so much energy I wake up at six work for 8 hours lift and run after work feel amazing.
>Constant boners sex drive is through the roof
>Feel more focused throughout my days.
267 down to 240.
>Went to doctor HDL cholesterol is a little high but in no danger blood pressure from losing weight has come down.
>Testosterone from 300 ng/dl is around 450.
>meme
>keto
Pick one.

I think keto is great or low carb is great for short term goals but isn't the """"healthiest"""" option out there. I have a lot of people lose weight and it does make cutting very easy. Yes I'm sorry to all the sperglords screaming that counting cals is easier but following a low carb diet is way easier. It's basically impossible to overeat on keto because the food is so rich and filling. It's hard as fuck to eat a giant cob salad.

>>41888728
You ever stop to think that maybe the fact you where eating like shit before might have been the problem, not a lack of ketosis?

>>41888728
its not the keto increasing your test, its dropping the alcohol and the 30 lbs of fat

>>41888862
I'm not saying that wasn't the problem. But to go on a diet that cuts out sugar/ carbs. Carbs being my biggest issue with beer pizza ect. Made it real easy to start dropping weight. My point was people will say it doesn't work when things work differently for everyone. And to say oh well your gonna die, I went to a doctor all my levels are in check. You are gonna have high estrogen, My test went up and my estrogen didn't. Say goodbye to gains, I haven't lost a single pound on a lift. You are gonna have no energy. I went from Drinking about 267 mg of caffeine a day to ZERO. And have more energy now then I did before. Not everything will work for everyone but calling Keto a meme and saying how horrible it will work for someone is garbage. For me Just watching what I eat was too difficult I'd still have some beers still do this. So to set a diet and go nah no carbs so no beer only vegetables fats and some protein was far easier for me to do. And stick with, and I'm reaping so many benefits.

>>41888880
Right, But what got me to drop the fat and cut out the alcohol?

>>41888948
My mom

>>41888862
>>41888880
I also agree keto is a short term thing, I'll probably only do it for maybe another month or two. But For a lot of people myself included, it is a great tool for getting back into a healthy life style, drop weight, and have the energy to hit the gym. I'm not saying do it for life, long run it will lower testosterone but for many people like me. Who got fat as fuck and out of shape it is in no way a meme. Everything in moderation. After keto I'm going to go mainly vegetarian to introduce mainly complex carbs first. After 3 weeks I'm sure my blood pressure and cholesterol will drop. And From there start just eating really well balanced. I just hate how people dismiss it. Is it for everyone nah. Does it just not work and is complete bullshit again, no.

>>41888984
She was my motivation, great lady anon. True superstar.

I went from 375 to 275 with calorie counting. Then I got stuck so I went 275-215 with ketosis/intermittent fasting. I probably would have lost weight way faster from 375 if I had done keto but I don't know if I could have made that transition into a full blown restrictive diet like low carb. Took awhile to get used to not eating every single thing I came across.

I'm hoping to take keto down to 175 and then go back to low calorie down to 155ish. 5'11" sorry for the blog.

>>41882678
I always hated soda my entire life and I didn't eat a lot of sugar even before this diet.

>>41884174
You're retarded. I took my friend to 5 Guys and ordered basically the same thing as him without the bun. I ate my entire burger, and he ate half of his. When we did shit right after that he was lethargic as fuck and I had tons of energy. Literally the only difference was the bread. Get fucked

>>41884236
Keto can be used to tread diabetes better than an insulin regimen you mongoloid

>>41884283
So you're just eating more sugar now? What's the difference between low carb and keto?

>>41882006
i've tried keto for a month and ive tried macros. TRACK MACROS. When i did keto i'd been properly working out for a year. I lost so much strength, event tho i was a beginner. I'm now on my 4th year cutting from 215. Have lost almost 30lbs and my strength has gone up tracking macros (cut was slow tho, 22 weeks)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWybRvggH3s

>tfw people fall for the keto meme.

>>41889579
Low carb/ no carb cuts out almost all sugars. You can only have 20 grams of carbs a day you can get all them from sugars but that's not a good Idea they are usually gotten from greens. Other than that its meat and dairy. So no keto you basically do 0 sugar.

>>41889730
Eating that bbq sauce and shit is not keto. Theres probably over 50 grams of sugar in those sauces which would mean about 50 grams of carbs= not ketosis.

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>>41887059
>>41885886
You know what else is full of nutrients? MEAT. Lol at all the indoctrination in this thread. You can live healthily off of meat and exercise alone.