Best BB split for naturals?

>>41755171

Full body 3-4x week

or upper-lower, U L x U L x

>>41755171
PPLPPLPPLPPLetc is quite good
the less rest days the better

>>41755219
Does full body allow enough recovery time? Assuming you would go one day on one day off

>>41755256
Yes, you can literally train everyday as long as you program it correctly, e.g. bulgarian light.

>>41755171
I hate this manlet so much.
>muh science

>>41755804
>Bulgarians
and dose it properly.

>>41755808
although hes kind of a cuck I think he gets a lot right

>>41755866
He's an annoying little shit and he's 5'3"

>>41755171
Run PPL but bro-ier, and split-ier. Just keep it as similar to PPL as you can, but with chest on its own day for more volume. So, maybe try something like:

Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, Shoulders/Legs

or:

Chest/Arms, Back/Shoulders, Legs

or even:

Chest, Back, Shoulers/Arms, Legs

>>41755171

ABCABCx - Only x2 per muscle, but better then nothing

:A - Tris/Chest/Delts
-2x10 Chest Press Machine
-2x12 DB Shoulder Press
-2x12 Face Pulls

:B - Back/Bis/Forearms
-2x10 Overhand Yates Rows
-2x12 BB Curls
-2x12 DB Shrugs with DB's held at 90°

:C - Quads/Hamstrings/Glutes/Calves
-3x1p Leg Extensions
-3x10 Leg Curls
-3x12 Calf Raises with your toes elwvated 1.5-2"

Explanation:
Recovery is key because most splits have you working the same muscle multiple days in a row, like doing Pull Ups then doing Squats the next day, both of which use your back and disable your back from fully recovering. Other than that, the low amount of sets is for that reason and the obvious - a Full Body routine only has 8-12 sets for your ENTIRE body, so why would you need more than half of that when working only a third of your body? Other things to note: the reps are high because it allows you to focus on form. When the weight is too high, form degrades and you offset the weight onto different body parts, like using legs to cheat curls. This results in over-working muscles that will be used the next day and seeing less optimal recovery. Leg day has more volume as your legs are larger and have more to push. Lastly, your Calves have two heads, the inner and outer. The inner flexes when going up, the outer flexes when your ankle goes below parallel. This is why so many people have shit calves, they only work the inner head. Elevate your toes so your ankles go below parallel at the bottom.

>>41755818
Bulgarian training and bulgarian light are on VERY different levels

>>41755979

*Underhand Yates Rows I meant. Also, keep rest at 1-2 min minimum for sets of 10 and 1 min for sets of 12. You can up sets of 12 to 15 if you want in which case you could lower the rest to 30-45 seconds reason being your muscles recover faster from lighter weight sets.

>>41755808
He's unironically the only person on youtube that has any idea what they're talking about and actually uses research rather than shit they heard and/or made up. Why is that bad? Are you so insecure that him being short triggers you this badly?

I took full-body and injected some push/pull:

>Sun: pull
>Mon: push
>Tue: off
>Wed: full-body A
>Thu: off
>Fri: full-body B
>Sat: off

I can't say it's "best", but I like it. I've long felt I've done best on full-body, but push/pull was also nice, so I just mixed them together. Only probably with full-body was having to choose between having two days off or my workout days changing week-to-week. So this way works for me. The workout days are always Sun, Mon, Wed, and Fri and I never have two days off in a row.

>>41755171
Jason Bloho is a straight fucking retard in all aspects, but his 5x5 program is pretty solid for natural bodybuilding. Very high volume with a relatively high exercise selection, all with linear progression. I would highly recommend.

>>41755906
>Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, Shoulders/Legs
this is literally what I do, would recommend

>>41756087
If that's true you should probably switch it up. I used to run the same split when I first started. Yes, you can still make gains on it as a total novice (you can make gains on literally anything as a novice), but just because it's not broken doesn't mean it can't be improved. Try a 3 day full body split with more of a focus on hypertrophy (Blaha's 5x5, AlphaDestiny's Novice Program, etc.)

>>41755979
is this a bait?

>>41755229
This.

PPLPPLR is my week.

>>41756108
I didn't start with it, I built enough strength to get around 1/2/3/4 then switched up because I felt like I had enough foundation to start building mass, which turned out to work great. Idk why I'd ever switch up to full-body novice programs, sounds retarded

>>41755979
>DB Shrugs with DB's held at 90°
As in, you hold the dumbbells straight out, as if the top part of a front raise?

>>41756080
All he did was copy Stronglifts 5x5 and add accessories. Stop giving credit to this thief.

>>41756116

Nope. I feel I properly explained the entire mechanics behind it. Look up Strength Theory (I think that's the website) for an article on hypertophy; three sets is about minimum for optimal hypertrophy and the structure of that routine is to have two sets where a certain muscle for that day has the highest recruitment then to work it as an auxiliary muscle during other lifts. A good example is during day B: BB curls bring your arms to failure twice and Yates Rows with an Underhand Grip specifically work your bis albeit not as hard. DB Shrugs with bent elbows force your bis to hold tension resulting in more work. The result is 2 sets where bis are directly worked and 4 sets where they are indirectly recruited totaling six sets for bis.

The issue with splits is that you can't do heavy compounds without sacrificing recovery. Benching properly requires core stability, back flexion, and leg drive, therefore if you go to the gym the next day, those body parts will be more apt to fail the lift due to being worn. If your back fails Squats first, your Quads will not have been properly worked. That routine features each muscle being worked no less than three sets whilst having little crossover in muscles per day and allowing each muscle to be worked twice a week.

>>41756137

Your arms would be against your sides with your forearms parallel to the floor. You could use a Suicide Grip for additional forearm and grip strength,but if you can't hold onto it long enough to complete the set, switch back.

>>41756301
I can guarantee you not a single muscle in your body will grow noticeably with that little volume

>>41756320
Can you show me a video of someone doing this? Even a MS Paint stickman would help. I'm really curious about this.

give good ulul routine pls

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>>41756333
nigger how fucking stupid are you

hold them like this and do shrugs. Yes it's a huge meme, don't actually do it, but that's what he tries to explain to you

>>41756116
>3 exercises per muscle group a week

youre not gonna make it

>>41756333

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qia2yOo6VJo/maxresdefault.jpg

>>41756331

I don't think I could explain the reasonings behind the programming any better than I already have. The trick with natural lifting is to do the least amount possible to promote hypertophy because natty recovery times are shit. If you're bulking and have more calories to use to recover with, increase each set by one if you want but it wouldn't really do anything. There's a reason why Full Body routines with 9 sets are so effective whilst most guys jumping from one machine to the next 6 days a week never make gains - more volume, more recovery, more calories, more rest. Why fatigue a muscle 9 times when it only needs 3? That's a waste of time and non-beneficial when you have to recover from 6 workouts per week. As stated, each muscle has 2 direct sets and 4 auxiliary - that's more than sufficient for a 30 minute routine which amounts to 3 hours a week.

>>41756135
you're literally short changing yourself if you only hit a muscle group once a week. that only works for guys on roids because protein synthesis for them lasts an entire week, whereas it lasts for about two days for a natural. you could do PPL twice a week. However, you might have a bunch of different muscle groups, but ultimately you only have one nervous system, which is being over worked with a 6 day a week program. even then though, it doesn't matter how well you try to divide up exercises for different muscle groups, there will always be overlap. your chest day will always be hitting your shoulders and triceps, your back day will always be hitting biceps and core - you get the point.

but sure dude, stick with your bro split, i'm sure you'll never plateau

>>41756425
but it's just plain wrong. Natty recovery isn't nearly as shit as you make it out to be

no really I'm curious, post your body if you're on this routine. There are thousands of natty lifters who lift high volume so that's proven to work, so why don't you prove yours does?

>>41756448
PPL hits every group twice, it goes PPLPPLx not PxPxLxx like you seem to think. I'm sure advanced lifters have insane gains on full-body novice programs lmao

>>41756378

It's an isometric hold; with a Suppinated Grip, your Bicep is at the peak tension and is held there during the lift. Doing so results in a high time under tension for your Bicep.

>>41756480
>working your biceps
>for shrugs

>>41756480
yeah and that's retarded for shrugs. To begin with the weight you should be doing shrugs with is so big that you can't hold your arm like that. You sound like a huge mememaster who doesn't lift and only theorizes shit day and night after reading some sketchy studies

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>>41756449

I'm not using that routine, I'm doing Full Body x3/week because as stated in my original post, splits are suboptimal. As per my body, pic related. I'm currently doing 8 sets total, 4 compounds, 4 accessories with lifts of 310/405/505 and my lifts are still climbing on a cut.

>>41756551
well yeah, you look as expected. Strong but not aesthetic. Your biceps, delts, triceps, forearms and traps are all small because you don't work them nearly enough for size

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>>41756572

>traps are small

Your traps recede downwards in a front double bicep.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gEKuB6I-HaM/maxresdefault.jpg

>brb gotta go tell 8 time Mr. Olympia that he has small traps

look at that ugly faggot ass manlet. He needs to kill himself considering he is fucking 5'3, what a joke. He looks like a dwarf, stupid piece of shit, id spit down to him if I saw him in real life

fuck manlets, they're fucking disgusting

>>41756683
t. falseflagging manlet

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>>41756683

>>41755171
Higher frequency is better but the degree to which is generally overstated.

For hypertrophy the difference is smaller than most people say it is. You can still make gains on a bro split if that's really what you enjoy.

I think the real reason people make shit gains on bro splits isn't the lack of frequency but the lack of progression. When people run programs like Starting Strength or Strong Lifts they focus on progressing every single week and constantly push to get stronger. When people run random splits from bodybuilding.com they usually just fuck around with no clear progression scheme and barely even try to progress.

As long as you focus on maintaining a consistent progression scheme and
getting strong week to week you can make gains on pretty much any type of split.

How dya get enough volume in with fullbody?

Like trying to do accessories after squats, deadlifts, ohp, bench and pullups every other day seems a bit nuts

>>41755171
Is that guy natty

>>41757072
Probably not. Although he's like 5'5 and competes in drug tested comps, so who knows really.

>>41756627

How long have you been training tho
That's an important factor in judging this

>>41757140

1.5 years lifting.

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>>41757145

I've been on a 3 day split for 8 months and I doubt i'll be far off that at 1.5 years tho

>>41755808
He has good info, but the science shit is annoying.

>>41757066
Fully body doesn't mean you work every single lift every workout.

Maybe one workout you do bench, squats, rows, romanian deadlifts, lateral raises, and curls. Then, the next workout you do overhead press, conventional deadlifts, weighted pull ups, leg press, chest flyes, and tricep extensions.

Only do about 3 heavy compounds each workout and then do lighter accessory work to hit what ever muscles you missed.

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>>41757167

You're at the point of exhausting noob gains where you'd grow doing anything. As is, muscle gain lowers by roughly 5%/month assuming you have perfect nutrition, rest, and diet. Being realistic, if only training each muscle group thrice a week, your muscle gain is going to decline at an even faster rate than that. Take your 8 months of gains then and multiply them by 1/3. Those are your gains going forward. Pic related was me at 8 months.

>>41757272

*If only training each muscle group once

I need to learn how to check my writing.

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>>41757186
>he had good info
>don't like that it comes from science
wot

>>41757278
I think he is annoyed because turbomanlet is acting too pretentious, not because he has scientific info

>>41757285
If you try to remove "being pretentious" then you remove the science and therefore remove the "good info", that he said he likes. You can't have one without the other.

>>41757272

I think i'd struggle with what to drop from my routine in order to make it doable 3x a week
Every exercise i do is there for a reason
Also how dya get over squat doms? I'm generally in pain for 3 days after squatting to the point it impairs my walking and my squat numbers suck

>>41757066
I followTM with regards to frequency/periodization/recovery but add BP on recovery days because the volume is too low alternating. Add bicep curls and lateral raises, some glute work and some back work, and you've literally hit everything in like 5 or 6 exercises. If you OHP heavy, there's no need to add 5 sets of 20 rep lateral raises. Be smart with your accessories.

Only truly necessary accessory work I do is glute bridges because my hip flexors are so many degrees stronger than my glutes that I get debilitating pain if I cut them out. I hit pretty much everything else with just the main compounds. If you're looking for aesthetics as well as strength, add lateral raises/rear delt flies, curls, and some minor backwork. Again, 5-6 exercises is all you need per workout session.

>>41757186
How is the science annoying? I rather him reference a study than just pull shit out of his ass.

>>41757313

Accessories to your compounds like Front Squats for Squat carryover are completely unnecessary until the increase of muscle gain per month gives less increase to your lifts than bettering your form.

>Less volume for hypertrophy improvements
>More volume for form improvements

SS, Greyskull, Reg Parks, 5x5, etc. - the point is to do a low amount of sets while naturally becoming better at the lifts. When you start to stall - which occurs when muscle gains start to become really slow - you go to Intermediate routines that work on higher volume not for muscle gain purposes, but for getting better at the lifts and training portions of the lifts that are week.

If your lifts are Novice, do an Upper, Lower, than Upper Compound then Lower, Upper, Lower on an AxBxAxx BxAxBxx schedule. If you stall and are Intermediate, Do Upper, Lower, Upper Accessory, and Lower, Upper, Lower Accessory reason being that three compounds is too difficult to recover from.

This translates to:
Beginner: Squat, Bench, Dead --- Bench, Squat, OHP

Intermediate: Squat, Bench, Hack Squats --- Bench, Dead, Curls

As the focus shifts more onto bettering form for higher numbers and muscle gains become exhausted, the number of accessories rises. Generally, with perfect nutrition/diet/routine you'll gain 20 lbs of muscle the first year, 10 the second, 5 the third, 2.5 the fourth, and 1 or less every year after training natural.

As per Squats hurting, your form is likely bad. Look up videos, but bend at the knees THEN the hips, turn your knees outwards (look up Omar Isuf's newest video collab with some PL guy), load the bar correctly, and etc.

>>41755808
His body is amazing his girl is asian you just hating

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>>41755171
>Run PPL 6-7 days a week for maximum calories in/calories out
>Run Powerlifting 3-5 for the most efficient gains per amount of time spent.

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>>41755906
>I usually run the typical anterior/posterior split myself : Chest/Tris, Back/Bis, Shoulders/Legs
But I have been known to hit an arms day to get a sick-nasty pump then go back/shoulders and full chest and fuck the legs. Back/Shoulders is GOAT for boosting your thickness at your shoulder line and your broadness between your shoulders as well as powerleveling your vertical lifts.

Day 1
Main Squat
Main Deadlift accesory
2-4 leg/back accesories for 3-5x6-12

Day 3
Light Bench/CGBP
2-4 pressing accesories for 3-5x6-12

Day 4
Main Deadlift
2-4 leg/back accesories for 3-5x6-12

Day 6
Light Squat/Variation Squat
Heavy Bench
2-4 upperbody accesories for 3-5x6-12

GOAT split for casual powerlifting and overall mass + strength gains

>>41757186
>He has good info
>I don't like the way the way he finds his info
>But it's good info

>>41757390
He looks like shit

>le asian gf meme

virgin.

>>41755171
anyone got his hypertrophy routines ?

>>41755229
>>41756126
care to recommend a PPL routine?

>>41756373
Fierce 5 Upper Lower
Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine
A Workout Routine (yes, it's called like that)

Do full body or an upper lower

ppl is fuckin worthless because you're literally hitting every muscle group only 4 Times a month

PPLPPLx is shit because youre spending 6 days a week in the gym

>>41759410
this
Full Body 3x/week or ULRULR are king for natties

>>41757390
>His body is amazing
He's 5'4"

>>41756044
Have you ever tried to sit through one of his cringe worthy videos?

>>41758954
Asians are better than white people

>>41759445
Why the fuck would I want a 1:1 ratio of upper to lower body? Males should be on a 2:1 ratio

>>41759410
What are you talking about? If you do PPLxPPL or something similar you're hitting every muscle 2x a week or 8x a month.

>>41756478
Lmao you realize there's full body routines that aren't SS right? You can rotate exercises, do heavy/light/volume days, etc. If you habe recovery problems if means your work capacity is not up to par,
I've done 225 overhead press, 135 weighted chin up x6, 1000+ pound rackpull ,doing fullbody workouts exclusively. No splits, none of the shit. Fullbody works for all levelsif you know what you're doing,

>>41759476
Yes but if you do it that way you'll be spending 6 days a week in the gym which is totally unnecessary for natties.
Unless you just really love being in the gym but having to drive to the gym 6 days a week as opposed to 3 for no added benefit is retarded

>>41759541
Every natty who says this has a shit physique. I saw my best gains training 5 or 6 days a week.

>>41759541
So in your mind, hitting each muscle group 52x per year vs 104x per year are going to produce the same results?

>>41759445
what is good FB routine for intermediate looking for size with same volume as UL split (lyle mcd one)

>>41759577
Full body 3x a week would be 156x a year and U/L is 104x a year

>>41759573
Every natty has a shit physique. fullstop.

natty is a waste of time and life and energy

>>41759294
coolcicadas routine is considered the best one
in his Bodybuilding.com thread there is also a variant that includes diddlys

>>41759541
I have 3 months summer vacation going to the gym 6 days a week is no problem for me

>>41755171
Lmao jeff nipple fake natty

>>41755808
>>41756044


>uses science constantly on his videos
>dismisses the high frequency study
>dismisses the muscle protein synthesis time window cycle post training
>dismisses the fact that training ANY muscle less than twice a week is absolutely retarded and only "useful" for maintainance fases or for total beginners at best.
>dismisses the fact that more advanced lifters have been found to respond better to higher frequency than beginners

He's just a manlet juicer.

>>41756478

>full body novice programs

most elite lifters(by that I mean people that actually know how to train and don't rely solely on steroids to progress) do full body, they just don't do fucking starting strength.

In fact beginners benefit from less training frequency than advanced trainees, because their muscle protein synthesis time window post training lasts way longer than it does on advanced lifters(advanced lifters usually drop off their muscle protein synthesis afer 12-24h of training a muscle).

My program is a 3 day program done twice a week with a break day, I like it so far..

Monday Chest+tri
Tuesday back+bi
Wednesday shoulders+legs
Repeat and take Sunday off

>>41759460
Asians would be dead if White people wanted, you fucking gook faggot.

>>41756044
>EMG studies show that bicep curls are good for your biceps
What a fucking shocker. His channel is pretty much worthless

>>41755884
Bro he's 5'2

>>41755171
>fuckin huge arms
>pencil neck
Lmao. This is how you spot an unathletic poser.