Full body vs brosplit

you realize there are more ways to arrange training than just full body or full brosplit, right?

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>>41707368
>Splits may be sub-optimal on paper but I’d say they are more optimal if what’s you enjoy
Abso-fucking-lutely

All that "natties need frequency bro! Hit everything 3x a week with low volume!" advice is garbage for mass/aesthetics. If your main goal is muscle growth, hit it with high volume twice a week.

You can (and should) start with your heavy 3x5 bench press, but if you want a big chest then do some incline or cable flyes afterwards

>>41707368
I've literally never followed a routine before because I learned how to lift properly at a young age. I just do chest/tri, back/bi, and leg. I do abs and calves everyday. Is that what a brosplit is?

>>41707420
> .... / higher frequency training?

Ofc, just a generalization.

>>41707427
So I can keep doing my split with good conscience!

Is every muscle 1x per week too low frequency though, still with high volume 15-20 sets per muscle?

>>41707457
are you me?
i just copied my father and do the same "program" for years

>>41707368
>I dislike thing A and like thing B
Then either look for a potential C (PPL 5-6x week) or do B, which you like
>>41707427
>>Splits are more optimal if what’s you enjoy
>Abso-fucking-lutely
This is true
>everything 3x a week with low volume!" advice is garbage for mass/aesthetics
This is false.
>>41707457
Textbook definition of a brosplit.
How many days a week do you have free time to train?

>>41707457
Thats a Push / Pull / Legs, (Pushing muscles / Pulling muscles / Legs). Some call that a bodypart/brosplit but I usually don't, for me a brosplit is every muscle 1x per week high volume, for example Chest/Back/Legs/Shoulders/Arms/Rest/Rest, or Do a 4on1off, Chest Tris / Back Bis / Legs / Shoulders / off / repeat.

>>41707491
I have personally never tried 1x a week, only 2x a week high volume (PPLPPLx) or 3x a week lower volume i.e. a strength routine (xAxBxCx)

Of those two options, I would say that PPLPPLx is better for mass gains without a doubt.

>>41707514
Low volume will never be good for mass no matter what the frequency is.

>>41707514
Good info thanks.

Still with my current 5-day split I can throw in some extra chest/legs/back or whatever on another day if I feel like it/want to prioritize it.

>>41707533
I'm leaning towards doing a PPL 2x per week, which would make a lot of sense, only downside is a lot of days spent in the gym, but right now im there 4-5 days per week so not that much of a difference.

Most studies have compared 1x frequency to 2x frequency, 2x was absolutely superior but 1x still remained a viable strategy for building muscle.

>>41707577
If you can't make it to the gym 6 days a week then run an Upper/Lower (xULxULx)

The upper session will obviously take longer than a push or pull session but it saves you two days of driving to the gym. I like to run upper/lower during the semester and PPL during summer because I have more free time

>>41707533
3*⅓=1, retard
>>41707544
In which case you're pretty much turning it into a PPL. Go for it, it's comfy. It's what I do when I have a lot of free time.
Shoulders and chest press one day, rows and chinups another, deadlifts and squats another, 2x week, Sunday rest. Do the one movement high weight low reps, the other moderate weight high reps and add some accessories.
If you want to keep dedicated chest, arms, back, shoulders, legs days, I recommend the following setup
>Legs
Squat heavy, deadlift light, Bulgarian split squats, leg press, leg curl
>Chest
Bench heavy, Incline or close grip bench, dips, cable pushdown
>Back
Deadlift heavy, rows, chinups, curls
>Shoulders
OHP heavy, OHP light, DB press, facepulls

Don't do arm day, it's a waste of time, instead do the first day again on Friday and rest on weekends. So it would look like LCBSLxx, next week CBSLCxx etc.

But PPLx is better imo

>>41707701
>3*⅓=1, retard
what did he mean by this

>>41707701
>Don't do arm day, it's a waste of time
If you want no arms, true
Small arm disease is a bitch though

The other thread told me to get off PPL and do fullbody as a natty but this one is pro-split

Make up your mind /fit/

I do back + shoulders, chest + arms, legs + core

>>41707701
>>41707744
Bodybuilding is a question of weakpoints. Got bad arms? An arm-day maybe isn't that bad. Got good arms, but maybe your traps and shoulders are lacking? Have a seperate/extra day for that part.

>>41707725
Training 3x week with ⅓rd the volume is equal volume to destroying that bodypart once per week. Actually it's better because unless enhanced, muscle protein synthesis lasts 48 hours (so ideal frequency is 3x week), not 168 hours.
>>41707744
The way I laid out the setup, you train arms 4 days per week: on chest, shoulder and back days (3), one of which will be repeated twice in the same week (3+1=4)

>>41707773

Frustrating isn't it.. I'm starting to lean more and more to the answer that you should do what challenges you and what you enjoy at the same time. Though some types of training are more optimal depending on what goal you have. For strength no one would run a brosplit for example.

Huh, it might be possible that everyone is different

I did a brosplit for 3 years with insignificant progress in both aesthetics and strength. It wasn't until I switched to a full body hitting everything 3 times a week with moderate to high volume that my body took a turn for the better, almost infinitely so.

My body just responded better to the full body. Do what works for you

>>41707812
Most brosplits have 15-20 sets per week, most fullbody routines I've read have 3-4 sets per muscle per session so 8-12 per week, so the weekly volume is still different.

>>41707812
I've been advocating for OP to hit muscles twice a week with high volume, not once a week.

It's far better than 3x a week low volume for mass

>>41707832
That's because you're supposed to start out with full body, lol. You were probably making noob gains after 3 years of nogains

>>41707368
I usually do some sort of full body, but keep focus on push / pull / legs

so on full body training day one I'll train all my muscles but the focus will be mainly on pushing

day two same shit but focus is mainly on back now

day three same shit but I'll be doing mainly front squats and leg stuff

>>41707827
I spent 30 minutes looking for a different program because PPL was worthless according to /fit/ and I really don't know whats optimal for me right now

>>41707457
No, that's PPL. Literally one of the most common "aesthetics" formats.

>>41707514
>How many days a week do you have free time to train?
I can go after work literally everyday if I wanted to. I usually have one rest day a week where I still run a little bit.

>>41707867
Upper/Lower is a split that works for everyone, easy to manipulate to your liking and goals.

>>41707773
>>41707827
Imagine a 3 day workout. Now imagine rearranging the exercises so that you train P, P and L muscles on seperate days. So your bench would not suffer because you squatted earlier, your chinups will not suffer because bench trashed your arms etc. Assume volume is kept constant between the PPLPPLx and FxFxFxx routines. Wouldn't you perform better in the PPL?
Alternatively think of it this way: if someone tells you that you have exactly 70 days to train as hard as you can to win a bodybuilding competition, or else he will kill your mom/gf/puppy/whatever: would you train 30 or 60 of these days?

PPL is better than full body. However, full body will get you 80-90% the results with 50-60% of the time spent. Diminishing returns.

>>41707887
Is PPL considered a bad way to work out? I started getting in shape again for the first time since high school at the start of summer. Went from skinnyfat to ottermode in 4 weeks. People that don't work out would describe me as big, strong, etc.

>>41707892
If you really have that much free time, read >>41707905 and >>41707701
>PPL. Go for it, it's comfy. It's what I do when I have a lot of free time.
>Shoulders and chest press one day, rows and chinups another, deadlifts and squats another, 2x week, Sunday rest. Do the one movement high weight low reps, the other moderate weight high reps and add some accessories.
PPLPPLx.

>>41707905
>or else he will kill your mom/gf/puppy/whatever: would you train 30 or 60 of these days?

Thing is you fucking faggot you train a body part three times a week on full body meaning= one more time than in PPL

>>41707977
But most fullbody routines alternate between workout so you won't do the same workout 3 times a week

>>41707905
>Assume volume is kept constant between the PPLPPLx and FxFxFxx routines. Wouldn't you perform better in the PPL?
as a beginner, no. you train the whole body 3 times a week on the full body routine and only twice on the PPL setup. there's no reason to only train your body twice a week when you can recover fast enough to do it 3 times.

>>41707977
Past beginner stage and unless enhanced, you cannot possibly train all 3 times of the week heavy enough. Case in point, recovery day in TM. Fuck off.

>>41707993
you alternate different exercises that train a lot of the same muscle groups. most of the common full body routines are just a squat, a press and a pull every workout, effectively training the whole body every time

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>>41707855
>It's far better than 3x a week low volume for mass

Define low volume.

I do on my full body for triceps/chest/shoulders for example 4x12 dumbbell chest press and 4x12 Skullcrushers or Close grip bench press and this shit fucking kills me at the end.

Its all about having a weight that will leave you burning after the set

>inb4 but you cant build muscle if you dont hit <insert 200+> reps for a bodypart!

You can gain muscle with 1rpmax forever as long as the weight is appropriate.

>>41707998
>as a beginner, no
That is true, I should have added an asterisk.

>>41708015
But thats wrong, unless your job doesn't let you rest properly 2 days is completly enough.

>>41708044
>>41707998
Adding on to that, if a beginner had infinite free time, again, training 6x week and better than with a 3x week full body is possible if they do ULULULx

>>41708050
>t. beginner who has never pushed hard on TM

>>41708032
>4x12 dumbbell chest press and 4x12 Skullcrushers or Close grip bench press
Nigga that's not low volume lol

Low volume is doing 3x5 bench and then nothing else for chest on a given day

>>41708085
Then thats doing Full body wrong.

Full body should be one or two big compound exercises + 4x12(not really 4x12 everywhere, just said it cause its the most popular) for every other important bodypart.

Leave shit like glutes calves forearms for offdays

>>41708081
>t.faggot who did 5 triceps exercises for 20 reps on full body and he wonders why he can't recover in time

>t. Everyone in here thinks fullbody means SS

If you guys actually tried looking shit up you're realize that their are fullbody routines that have high volume, and more than 1 exercise per bodypart. The fullbody I'm on right now gets me pumped as fuck on the volume days, I did over 150 reps of tricep and bicep work each between compounds and isolations the other day. If you think that won't give you a pump then you're just stupid.

Goddamn I love ppl. Perfect balance between fb and bs. Still focus on compounds and strength for the first half then a lot of volume and iso in second half. Easily customizable, for fun or for fixing weaknesses.

>>41707368
Full body is only annoying if you don't do compounds. If you target every muscle individually, then it does indeed take fucking forever to finish and becomes boring and strenuous. I guess that makes full body kind of shit if you train for size rather than strength. The upside of full body is that you get faster strength increases because you hit the same muscles more often in the same week.

PPL is for people who don't have a fucking life and waste every day in the gym

>>41707954
Ppl is the best if you want a balance between strength and anesthetics however if you are just beginning it's recommended to start on a full body routine to gain proper strength first for around six months, then you can move on to ppl where your high volume will pay off more since it can handle heavier weights. The only problem with ppl is that most people don't have the time or discipline to hit the gym six times a week, full body is more time efficient but focuses less on isolation. Recovery can also be a problem in which case you should just listen to your body and take an extra rest day if you need to.