Why did it take us so long to realise sugar, not fat, was the enemy?

>>41683339

Because the retardation of our quick-fix culture has taken time to evolve and pointed at many other things as the cause of own failings people, sugar is just the current fad enemy, dietary fat and genetics have been proven to not be the root cause of obesity, and sugar will given time. But the question is, will society finally realise that lack of willpower, and gluttony are the causes, or will we find another scapegoat to target until enough proof shows them wrong and move on ad nauseum.

cholesterol causes heart disease

>>41683377
Saturated and trans fat are pretty bad for heart health as well.

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>>41683377
>>41683405
>believing this in 2017

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fuark that looks dope.
how'd you make it? spices?

>>41683339
>>41683419
I would also like to know this

>>41683419
>>41683476
lmao are you trolling? literally just some eggs and ground meat in a pan

>>41683339

>sugar

It's been public policy since at least the 70s and widely known and accepted ever since that refined sugars are unhealthy. Everybody knew this.

>not fat

Don't you understand that there are different types of fat and that they have differing effects on your health? Some fats are bad for you. Some fats are good for you. This has also been public policy since at least the 70s, and widely known.

Basically corporations would fund scientists to say that there was no clear link between sugar and weight problems.

Read Merchants of Doubt, corporations have been doing this since leaded gasoline and cigarettes.

>>41683339
way too long man, way too long
I have been doing Keto for 3 weeks, and dropped 2 weekends, eating a lot of carbs because of social reasons, still went from 81kg to 74.4 this morning.
Got a shit ton of energy, no hunger, no cravings, much more mental clarity and feel much better overall.

>>41683506
no shit, im wondering about the spices if any

>>41683339
Now that's an artery clogging meal. Just missign the bacon and something deep fried.

>>41683542
Do you have easy recipes to share? Everything in my house seems to have carbs in it.

>>41683339
Surely you mean excess calories are the enemy

>>41683419
taco seasoning

Too bad you cant bulk on keto, training also goes to shit

>inb4 you can bulk on keto
There is literally no data out there saying you can so I wonder what happens if you exceed your tdee while doing it

>>41683827
>it's physically impossible to eat more than your tdee while eating fewer carbs

>>41683533
>merchants
Oy vey!

>>41683827
I tried bulking on keto and it helped to stay pretty lean and I made some good gains.
Overall I dropped keto and just went low carb because I felt 100g of complex carbs helped recovery more than the 40 or so I was eating on keto.
I did keto to lose weight for about 4 months, ate at maintenance for two and bulked on it for a month before just switching to a low carb clean bulk which I've been on for a few months with some breaks in between. I generally also like the freedom of food choices that low carb offers over keto. Spanishfag so I eat a lot of beans and find it much easier to hit my calorie goals with the little leeway that I have with how many carbs I eat.

>>41683871
I phrased it wrong meant bulking on muscle
>>41683940
you should carb cycle if you train on keto obviously. the experts even recommend that after training while on keto to eat a meal with a lot of carbs + protein. The point is to spike insulin

>>41683709
wrong, you stupid fuck.

>>41683339
Because sugar is less expensive than fat, so the food industry makes more money selling sugary junk instead of fatty junk

>>41684026
not true those vegetable oils are even cheaper and even worse for your health than sugar

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>>41683533

They do that with studies showing no link between saturated fat and heart disease too, and studies about dietary cholesterol. There's shills all around.

https://cspinet.org/sites/default/files/attachment/covermay2014.pdf

>>41684003
I tried doing both a TKD and a CKD while bulking. CKD helped the most but personally I still prefer just doing low carb now for the freedom in diet choice also because I hate stuffing myself full of carbs on a few days. I should also mention I do 20/4 IF to try to maintain insulin sensitivity with the added amount of carbs that I have now.
Performance wise TKD gave me the biggest energy boost for my workout sessions but CKD made me feel stronger. Now low carb gives me a good mix of both.

>>41684092
the fuk is tkd and ckd

Sugar is an $80 billion industry, and like tobacco it's in their best interest that nobody figures out how horrible their garbage is. In the US, at least, sugar is one of the very few protected monopolies (or technically a triopoly of three powerful sugar companies) the government tried to bust up the monopoly in 1894 but they took it to the Supreme Court and with United States v. E. C. Knight Co. the Justices ruled that sugar is "a vital industry and trustbusting them is a threat to national stability".

Then in 1930s, FDR (in a series of deals with the American Socialist Party) passed legislation that guarantees that they can never go out of business and that no new sugar company can be started on US soil.

Once they saw what was happening to nicotine companies in the 70s, they got slimy George McGovern to target "fat" as the enemy. Which threw people off the sugar industry for decades. Then in the 80s they developed a slew of sweetners and started to work on high fructose corn syrup as a way to rake in government funds on such an unprofitable but highly political crop.

Soon they'll figure out a way to throw people off again, they're very powerful and very clever at manipulating the public.

>>41684103
>TKD
Targeted keto diet where you eat roughly 50g of carbs around the time of your workout. It's advised for these to be relatively high GI and not come from fruits so that it gets used preferentially as muscle glycogen instead of liver glycogen. This does not count towards your net carb total for the day since the effect of the workout essentially nulls the anti-ketogenic effects it has.
>CKD
The cyclical keto diet has you do a weekly carb load. The main goal being to fully deplete glycogen within your workouts for the week before doing a large carb load at the end of the week to induce super-compensation of glycogen. After the carb load you attempt to enter a ketogenic state ASAP with some fasted cardio as well as the first workout being a high rep glycogen depleting one. I typically found this type of keto diet to have the best impact on my physique. The day after your carb load you look so goddamn lean and pumped.

Lyle McDonald goes into absurd depth on the physiological effects of both and the proper way to implement them in his book if you want to read more.

>>41684236

>like tobacco it's in their best interest that nobody figures out how horrible their garbage is.

They did a shit job of that then. While our subsidies in the US are pretty dumb, the message to cut down on sugar has been clear for decades. It's not like we're just now starting to understand or accept that sugar is unhealthy. That's been common knowledge for about as long as it's been known that not all fats are healthy.

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>>41683339
Because targeting fat seemed simple and logical. >Fat makes you fat

It wasn't crazy to think that. The crazy part is how long we thought that after everyone kept getting fatter

>mfw I see my fat sister-in-law still falling for the low fat meme.

Recently on a family vacation at the beach she ate a jelly filled nutri grain bar instead of eggs to avoid the fat

>>41684318

>It wasn't crazy to think that. The crazy part is how long we thought that after everyone kept getting fatter

What do you mean? People kept eating high fat diets and continued getting fatter

Sure buddy, keep on feeding on the one macro that is BY FAR the most prevalent in fast food menus.

Surely it wasn't those fries, burgers, pizzas, fried everything, biscuits and cream that made America the obese nation. It was that damn sugar all along. With its property to block arteries with fat.

>>41684237
I guess TKD is better for overall performance

is it true that you look smaller while on keto

>>41683412
Trans fats are bad tho

>>41684045

This is true.

>>41684318
>Fat makes you fat
IF your body runs on carbs that is true though

what happens is whenever your body runs on carbs it will store dietary fat as adipose tissue to spare carbs. if you just eat fat it will use that but if you add carbs to the mix it will directly store the fat as bodyfat. This has been observed in studies. This is why fatty carbs are the worst thing you can eat if youre concerned about getting fat(think of donuts for example)

This doesnt mean you cant get fat off of bulking on carbs since your body can adapt to this. It takes a day or two so in theory you should be able to eat a fuckload of carbs for 1 day and not gain any weight because of it

>>41684349
A diet high in saturated fats and trans fats correlate with a shitty diet of Mc dee's, but it doesn't mean you can't have a healthy diet with lots of saturated / trans fats. Overeating is the problem, and most people feasting on Mc dee's don't exactly count calories

>>41684349
its not fat that's the problem its calories, which fast food has plenty of. Sugar has lots of calories as well, so OP is being a little bit oversimplifying

>>41684424
>what happens is whenever your body runs on carbs it will store dietary fat as adipose tissue to spare carbs
Nope only if it's in excess.
> It takes a day or two so in theory you should be able to eat a fuckload of carbs for 1 day and not gain any weight because of it
Not how it works.

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>>41684424

Calories are the deciding factor. It doesn't matter what your macro ratio is, if you eat 1500 calories each day and your body uses 2000 calories to operate for the day, you'll lose weight. If you eat 2500 calories each day, you'll gain weight.

>>41684437
>healthy diet with lots of saturated / trans fats
i fucked up that last bit

>>41684448
>Nope only if it's in excess.
google the recent studies done on de novo lipogenesis its basicly(obviously not word for word) what I read

>>41684437

>it doesn't mean you can't have a healthy diet with lots of saturated / trans fats

It does though. By definition, a healthy diet is defined in part as a diet low in saturated and trans fats. If all that mattered for health was your body weight, you might be able to make the "you can eat anything, just don't overeat" argument, but it's not. Food directly affects you in other ways.

>>41684314
Normies are easy to trick. I work in a market, and all the sugary crap they market to millennial moms is the same: made with real fruit! organic! made with whole grain! made with fruit and vegetables! non-GMO! natural! no added sugar! no artificial flavors or colors! But it's all the same sugary crap that their little Aidens and McKaylas and Bentlys and Bellas demand, and will be hooked on for the rest of their lives, just like their fat moms and fat dads. Toaster pastries, granola bars, fruit covered in chocolate, fruit in simple syrup, cookies, candy.
And if it's not sugar, it's other simple carbs. Veggie chips! All the carbs and salt, but we made it with peas and carrots so you don't have to feel guilty, mom! Makes me fucking sick. But normies get what they deserve for failing to educate themselves and being tricked by Porky.

>>41683532
>Some fats are bad for you. Some fats are good for you.
Bad fats: Trans Fat (man made)
Good fat: saturated fat (meat, coconut oil)
Great fat: unsaturated fats

The only fat that is even bad for you is trans-fat and it's completely man made and it's in shit like Oreos, cake icing, etc.

No matter what any of the weebs on this board say, it continues to remain fact that the people who stick with the tried and tested "chicken broccoli and rice" have the best results all around.
Obviously there is a need for some fat, but it can come from healthy amount of milk or nuts.

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>>41684479
Its goldstein, not porky you fuckin goy

>>41684521
Wrong. Saturated fat is bad as it does raise LDL, polyunsaturated have been shown to potentially be bad too. What you want are monounsaturated fats.

>cooking ground beef with eggs
>not draining out the fat and grease from ground beef
>not cooking them separately

Enjoy your heart attack

>>41683339
because sugar barons are very very good at marketing. By marketing their candy as "FAT FREE" long enough, people began to actually believe it was. They also more or less invented the concept of snacks which is like a trillion-dollar industry.

>>41683339

Sugar is good if you're active, which lifting 3 times a week does not fall under

>>41684447
By weight your average McCuckald meal will have way more SUGAR than Fats , and it's not Macro % that determine the end game , the simple presence of sugar is bad .
And before shilling the complex carbs meme , just because it's listed as Carbohydrate & not as sugar doesn't means it's not pure fucking sugary trash .
"Sugar" From whole milk will be absorbed way slower than "carbohydrate" from wheat or potatoes , rice .

The length of the chain doesn't matter as much as the strength of the link and how it's packaged inside of the food .

Fries & buns are pure sugar .

>>41684540
fuck of retard

>>41684521

>Good fat: saturated fat (meat, coconut oil)

Those would also fall under bad fat

https://healthyforgood.heart.org/Eat-smart/Articles/Saturated-Fats

>>41684045
Ever heard of corn syrup?
It's cheaper to produce than any plant-based oil

>>41684582
So you can only ad hominem me? Are you that insecure? Just accept you were wrong about it and incorporate it into your life to be healthier.

>>41684593

NOOOOOOOOO

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>41683533
This is the answer and the thread should have ended here because everything else is wrong. It's plain greed and corruption. So much science (especially in diet and exercise science) from around 1930 to 1990 has been overturned in the past decade it's fucking insane. Fucking greedy ass scientists screwing over humankind for a mediocre payout and the capitalist fuckheads paying them off knowing full well what they are doing. Disgusting.

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>>41683611
judging by the orange its probably Sazon. probably half a pack for such little meat. you can get it with reduced sodium too

the problem with sugar is its ADDICTIVE.

its that feeling you get when you say to yourself "another one hurt" and soon its a recursive loop calling itself until you run out of said product

then you buy more and call the method again

If you take the sugar out of food theres a reason you dont want to eat more of it

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>>41684540
You are a fucking degenerate if you say that saturated fats are bad. They are essential for many organs like your stomach and your brains you fucking idiot

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Is this you OP?

>>41684564

I've rarely read so much misinformation conveniently packed in one post.

FRIED potatoes are pure sugar guys
FRIED

>>41684621
Wat. Are you retarded?

The only essential fats are omega-3s and omega-6s and you only need a tiny amount of those. Kids these days, I swear.

>>41684614
This, having to count calories to stay lean or not get fat is the most ridiculous thing ever .

You should never have to use "willpower" to prevent yourself from eating food lol .

Sugar fuck up so much with your hormone that you'd get fat & unealthy if you weren't will powering through the craving .


A well regulated man who know how is body function and eat accordingly to it should never have craving .

>>41683542
> dropped 2 weekends

how much weight is a weekend exactly?

>>41684564
Fast food almost always has shitty fats and shitty carbs because the combination is what makes it so satisfying. They're both equally bad. Also potatoes are really healthy despite having a high GI (assuming you buy and cook/bake them, not deep fr or so).

>>41684621

>You are a fucking degenerate if you say that saturated fats are bad.

I guess every expert who's qualified to make a statement about nutrition is degenerate. It's a global consensus based on decades of rigorous research.

>They are essential for many organs like your stomach and your brains you fucking idiot

Careful how you use the word essential in this context. They aren't essential in the diet because your body synthesizes them when and where they're needed. Exogenous saturated fat that passes through your digestive system causes adverse reactions, the most well understood being the increase in LDL cholesterol leading to higher risk of heart disease.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10490&page=422

>>41684634
They're the only " essential" one because your body WILL die without them for a long period of time .

The other's aren't as vital but they're the precursor to almost every hormone in your body ( including test & growth hormone ) , that's why lowfat highcarb people always look fucking sickly .

>>41684370
I think it varies by people which diet works best which is something /fit/ can't even come close to understanding. Best thing to do is try one and give it a chance for a month or two (this is especially important with keto because of how long it takes to get truly fat adapted). To answer your question though yea you do look smaller on keto. I think (broscience) it mostly has to do with how diuretic it is though because you look leaner and drier as well but you just don't have that plump full look that you have with more carbs.

>>41684437
A little bit of n=1 thinking here but my diet consisted of >140g of saturated fat for several weeks with 0 trans fat roughly 15g mono and 6g of fish oil a day before I got blood work. The results showed low to average LDL and HDL as well as the lowest levels of triglycerides my doctor had ever seen. During this time I was doing very strict keto with only about 15g of net carbs and 1-2g of sugar a day.
>>41684475
There are multiple studies showing how saturated fats have multiple protective properties against CVD. I think like other anons have noted, the danger of high sat fats comes when you are also eating a high carb high sugar diet as well. In which case I'm pretty sure just eating too much is bad for you regardless of the type of food your eating. Moderation is always king
>>41684521
This anon knows what's up

>>41684689

>There are multiple studies showing how saturated fats have multiple protective properties against CVD

I doubt it, but regardless the vast majority of the evidence points to higher CVD risk. The only time saturated fats look alright is when being compared to trans fats or refined sugar.

>>41683339
Enjoy your fucked up arteries and butthole cancer.

>>41684688
You were the one using that word, retard anon. And you literally do not need to eat ANY saturated fat.

Btw growth hormones are correlated to faster aging and cancer. You're spouting some serious bullshit here.

>>41684688
There is a limit in how much Fat we can digested , regulated by the amount of Bile our gallbladder can store , on top of that Fat is the nutriment that trigger leptin & hunger regulating hormone the most .
If you eat only fat & protein from real food , like meat & eggs , you can"t overeat without literally forcing yourself to eat.

>>41684716
enjoy living long enough to buy adult diapers

>>41684689
A lot of bullshit right here.

Saturated fats are found in your body. They are necessary in small amounts.

>>41684717
i'm not the original anon you responded to , just wanted to enlighten you .
And in a healthy body the HGH will regulate itself to the optimal level ( feedback when there is too much ) , but if there is not enough precursor then there will never be enough .

>>41683419
>>41683476
My mom makes it all the fucking time and it's so fucking good.

Basically
>put frozen ground meat on pan with water
>break up ground meat as much as you can
>few minutes in, after meat starts sizzling toss in a few eggs
It's really as simple as that.

>>41683339

/The Jews

>>41683339
Have you considered that it's both, or at least the mixture of the two that is the problem? I remember the BBC had a documentary of fat vs sugar. The conclusion was that mixing the two is the problem. When rats are fed food high in sugar and no fat, they don't overeat. The same holds true when fed all day and no sugar. The problem comes when you feed them a ratio of the two, in the form of cheesecake. Only then do they fail to naturally regulate their diet.

The problem isn't fat or sugar. Its the combination of the two.

>>41684738
I guess dietary cholesterol is essential too then because we have a constant level in our blood right? And sugar is too right?

Retard.

>>41684760
Please educate yourself before posting ever again

>>41684741
Our bodies are extremely efficient and good at synthesizing them. We do not need any dietary fat except those 2 omegas and it does not have any significant adverse effects if you cut all other fats (though a little bit is definitely better). However especially saturated fats are absolutely unnecessary.

The talk about our bodies regulating it to the optimal level is also plain wrong.

>>41684787
>Saturated fats
>essential
Please look up what "essential" means.

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>>41683339

Because the sugar industry pushed the meme in order to make money. I'm not just talking about one specific product. I'm talking about the whole damn thing.

Calorie for calorie, where food is concerned, it is far cheaper to produce carbs than fats and especially proteins. The biggest profit margins are to be found in sugar/carbs.

Decades ago, Americans ate pretty healthily for example. Fried eggs/etc. Those involved in the bread industry (pastries/etc) didn't like this. A lot of doctors were paid off/bought out and thus the meme was born that fat was the enemy. Hence Americans abandoned their formerly healthy diets for bullshit such as having a croissant/coffee and cigarette for fucking breakfast.

Where fat is concerned, we can say that pretty much ONLY trans fats are bad.

Here, however, we need nuance:

1) Although we now know that Saturated Fat is no longer 'bad' for us (Coconut oil especially), it is not really 'good' for us either - in that it does nothing for us despite the health benefit claims so rife in the present fad

2) If you want a healthy, good fat/oil - your best bet by a country mile is Hemp Oil. Not only is most of it polyunsaturated, but it contains shitloads of Omega 3 & 6 as well. You can meet and exceed your RDA's easily with that stuff.

>>41684314
They also own all the artificial sweetners as well. They'll get you hooked on SOMETHING.

>>41684742
>put frozen ground meat on pan with water
what the fuck, are you living in some 3rd world shit hole

>>41684804
Our bodies absolutely need dietary fat. It's completely essential to hormone production, among other things.

>>41684829

>Hemp oil

My nigga. Liquid gold, tastes good too.

>>41684734
On mobile so can't link the studies I have bookmarked but you can start with this video
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RwGteseHyas

>>41684829
I agree with most of the things this anon is saying however I would add that mono unsaturated fats are shown to have a positive effect on CVD that I don't think anyone will deny. But I will say avoid relying entirely no veggy oils as the large majority of them have considerably more Omega 6s than 3s while the recommended ratio is about 2:1.

>>41684829
Wtf man , Poly aren't specifically good by themselves , it's just that they work in tandem to do shit in your body , the ration should optimally stay between 1;2 to 2:1 O3/O6 .
The average man get around 1:10 to 1:20 in today's society .
Hemp oil are shit because the ratio is something like 1:15 .

>>41684952
A cardiologist "overthrowing" decades of science and the consensus? Cmon that's just stupid and obviously a career thing. He has a following and gets payed to give speeches and I bet he also has some bait book to sells. But yeah if the thread is still around I'd be interested in the studies. It really is a shame but so much of the research on nutrition is biased, faulty or just straight "bought" from the industry.

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>>41683339

Sugar was always the enemy and it will always be, like wtf? If you are talking about carbs in generel, sorry you are dead wrong. Carbs from natural sources are the best you can do to your body.

Fat has been shown to be the enemy because of how bad the ratio of saturated/unsaturated fat we get through the normal diet. Everything if full of "bad" fat, every fast food, everything processed has a ratio if 14 (saturated) / 1 (unsaturated). This is also true in meat, even lean meat like chicken is full of it. You simply can not deny that saturated fat is bad for your fucking health (in huge amouths and a bad ratio).

And this is where keto and low carb people should wake up. Its not about that keto or low carb is bad or worse but that is contains a bad ratio of these 2 fats with all the fucking meat and eggs you shove down your throat. Transfats are the worst, avoid them completly.

Pls GOD don't just say "sugar" and "fat", there are good and bad in both fucking fag.

>>41685001
Did you even watch the video? Obviously everything he says doesn't just destroy years of evidence and research. However he makes great points about misunderstandings as well as general misinformation that has been spread in both the medical and scientific community. The video is a great starting point to broaden your views and do further research on questions or doubts you have.
I should also point out, this video as well as my own research is what has influenced my diet and diet choices j make. Noone should watch one video and believe it's the best for all mankind, rather they should do research and experiment with what they believe in and feel is the best information out there.

>>41683368

wait 50-60 years when avg people who had normal diets outlive people w keto-paleo diets,

>>41685127
You're on a keto diet right? I personally think that's one of the worst possible diet choices, I'd rather go raw vegan than keto and I've been reading up on general nutrition/diet/metabolism for some months now too. I really don't feel like watching some speech from someone who doesn't seem to specifically work in the field of nutrition. And it's probably stuff I've long read too, probably against some anti-fat studies that got a ton of attention like the China Study or the 7 countries study.

One doctor I really like is http://jacknorrisrd.com/ he is very open about misinformation and tunnelvision of especially the vegan frontrunners.

>>41685206

yeah agree, this guy is solid.

>>41685008
What foods would you recommend to eat daily and if I'm able to eat chicken daily what is the maximum to avoid a bad diet but still have the good tasty meals?

>>41685127
>>41685206
Apparently the doctor got huge flak for that speech and publicly apologized for mistakes he made. Doesn't seem like a good starting point to broaden anyone's view.
>https://www.medpagetoday.com/cardiology/prevention/63824

>>41684829

>Decades ago, Americans ate pretty healthily for example. Fried eggs/etc
>1) Although we now know that Saturated Fat is no longer 'bad' for us (Coconut oil especially),

What is the basis for your understanding of nutrition? No qualified professional thinks this stuff

>>41685329

nuts, seeds, avocado are by far the best. When it comes to pure oil I would go for walnut, olive or hemp oil. Overall if you eat the ones I said above you still should be able to eat chicken and still avoid an overall bad ratio. Salmon ofc and some other fish (you should research this). Btw I'm not saying that these 2 meats are healthy, because both still have some factors that makes them not good for health but the fat ratio is not as brutal as beef or something else.

Also what I've heard is that dark chocolate (cacao nibs) is good, but I would recommend to do some research on your own.

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>>41684603
Wh-what are you talking about goyim? Socialism is the real Jew! Do you hate America or something? Everyone shun this communist!

>>41685392

>No qualified professional thinks this stuff

Most """qualified professionals""" are fucking retarded.

Have you ever interacted with a """qualified professional"""? My own fucking doctor told me not to go to the gym and just walk my dog every day instead for weight loss

>>41685484

>Most """qualified professionals""" are fucking retarded.

According to you, who apparently needs no education to have an informed opinion about things. You're just naturally smarter than everyone, right? And everyone who disagrees is just dumb

>>41685484
There's a difference between your random family doctor and leading scientists in the field of nutrition.

All this "back then" talk is also pretty stupid to begin with, general health was way worse the further you go back in time (in general), food was way less available and fast food wasn't really a thing. You can't just make a super broad general statement like that.

>>41685484

>My own fucking doctor told me not to go to the gym and just walk my dog every day instead for weight loss

fat as fatass detected

>>41685484
>My own fucking doctor told me not to go to the gym and just walk my dog every day instead for weight loss

this works wonder for highly overweight people, so as this point I am thinking what your T-Shirt size might be.

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It's not in the sugar industry's interests for you to learn that. Ever since fats have been vilified Americans eat more and more and more sugar.

>>41685645

As well as more fat. Americans eat a lot of everything, except healthy food.

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>>41685008
>Carbs from natural sources are the best you can do to your body.

I can't believe there's still retards believing that in the current fucking year.

>>41685008
Did you just say that lean chicken is full of saturated fat?

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>>41685654
No, that's completely false.

>>41685654
>sugar industry shill detected

>>41685705

Not sure exactly what you're trying to say with that image, but in the overall diet, fat and sugar both went went up since the 70s, despite guidelines telling us to eat less of both. At no point in recorded American history did fat intake ever go down in absolute terms.

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/nutrient_content_of_the_us_food_supply/KilocaloriesandMacronutrientsPerCapitaperDay1909-2010.xls

>>41684583
>Meats and coconuts are bad for you.
t.Jews at American Heart Association

>>41685751
>retarded contrarian
>/pol/ meme
Figures.

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>>41685738
Oops, except that's also wrong. Do you legit work for the sugar industry?

Fat is good for you as long as you respect CICO.
Sugar is always bad, always.

>>41684829

>Decades ago, Americans ate pretty healthily for example

The reason dietary guidelines were put out in the first place was to help combat the already rising obesity rates and high rate of heart disease mortality compared to other countries.

> A lot of doctors were paid off/bought out and thus the meme was born that fat was the enemy.

Completely made up. Fat got a bad reputation in regards to obesity because it's the most calorie-dense macronutrient and is added to a lot of junk foods and desserts, just as sugar is. Fat got a bad reputation for heart health when research in the 1950s looked at fat consumption in several major countries around the world and found correlations between fat intake and heart disease. This relationship was explored in depth in the years after the study, where it was found that saturated fats in particular were bad for heart health while polyunsaturated had opposite effects and monounsaturated seemed to be neutral and possibly beneficial.

>>41685815

>Oops, except that's also wrong

You're arguing with data at this point. You've been given the information, at some point you will have to accept it.

>>41685815
Not him b why is that a crop that doesn't return anything on google? Also that's just animal fat, there are more fats you know. You don't fry with animal fats. Are you legit working for the fat industry?

>>41685774
>Not going against eating habits dating back 100s of 1000s of years.
>contrarian

>>41685815

jesus christ you are a legit idiot.

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>>41683339
excuse me?

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The only healthy food on earth.

>>41685916
That guy is a massive faggot and I'm all for plant based diets.

>>41685936
Fuck off tripfag. Go attention whore on tumblr or reddit.

Watch the documentary "Fat Head" on Youtube, it explains this greatly

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>>41685645
lol

>>41685916
>>41685937
It's hilarious that people just bring up Durianrider like "lolol what a meme, what a retard, he eats refined sugar everyday", meanwhile he posts all his blood tests for years and recently he even posted 24 hour blood sugar readings proving perfect insulin sensitivity and the only response that fat earthers can come up with when confronted with a case study of somebody consuming hundreds of grams of refined sugar a day for over a decade with no ill effects is "lololo"

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>>41685953
Haha you're so funny
Have you seen this funny "mem"

>>41685964

As if that's a good source of information. If you're going to watch it, watch it to see how stupid the dietary fat acceptance movment has gotten.

all macronutrients are fine, just don't sit on your all day

huge difference between 'added sugar', e.g. refined, and natural sugar.

apparently some of you apes have difficulty understanding this, for some reason. keto is great for weight loss, but you're going hypoglycemic and cutting off important nutrients for your brain for quick weight loss

you do need some sugar, not the refined shit, though. just like fat, there's a huge difference.

>>41685977
He does? I have no idea I wanted to watch a few videos of him but he was so obnoxious at the very beginning I immediately closed it again. Maybe he is just lucky with his genes. If you're at a healthy weight, do sport and get your nutrients you will very likely stay healthy even witht 500 calories KFC every day.

>>41683339
Sugar is a huge enemy but I would say it's due to the lack of information and research. But I am glad that more and more channels are starting to educate viewers. Especially


https://youtu.be/hKpJc4Kbzd4

Mind over munch. It's not even to say sugar is bad but the type we have is bad and it is in abundance. Alcohol sugar and especially naturally occurring sugar like monk fruit and Stevia can be used to make certain food(especially banana pancakes) sweeter without having any sugar at all.

>>41685977
Sure I brought him up as a meme, but I've actually been high-carb low-fat vegan for a few months now, and as a runner/cyclist, it's fucking incredible what smashing in the carbs and eating clean can do for you

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>>41686031
>keto is great for weight loss, but you're going hypoglycemic

since fucking when

>>41683339
food companies spreading misinformation via paid studies

>>41683542
You have only lost water.

Get back when you have been on ketosis for 2 months.

maybe I feel for the "meat and dairy shills", but low-carb / keto was the best thing that ever happened to me. I lost over 100lbs and cut my LCL, triglycerides, and total cholesterol while still increasing my HDL. Never been healthier and never had more energy in my life.

>>41686544
Well losing weight universally improves that. Still good job, though it really seems like keto is primarily a weight loss thing, especially for overweight people. If you want to push your bodyfat to 10% it makes a lot less sense.

>>41686031
>huge difference between 'added sugar', e.g. refined, and natural sugar.

explain, oh wise anon, how huge is that difference

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>>41683405

ITT: Deluded sugar and starch addicts with insufficient willpower for keto getting triggered and having to crusade outdated 1970s momscience

>>41683339
>Why did it take us so long to realise sugar, not fat, was the enemy?
Because schools are shit and don't teach kids about proper nutrition and exercise.

>>41688251

>Deluded sugar and starch addicts

The message of the thread has been "sugar and fat can both be bad." There's different kinds and sources of each that have different effects on your health. It's not an either/or argument where you have to choose between refined sugar or "fat" in general.

>insufficient willpower for keto

Oh right, I have too little willpower to gorge myself on bacon and cheese. I need that heroin-like gratification my bowl of plain unsalted oatmeal gives me.

>>41684533
Lots of Jews in agriculture so your statement makes total sense

STFU, IT'S ALL ABOUT CALORIES IN, CALORIES OUT YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS!!! EAT SALADS AND DRINK WATER AND YOU'LL LOSE WEIGHT!!! STUFF YOUR COCKSUCKERS WITH GREASY, SUGARY SHIT AND YOU'LL REMAIN FAT FUCKS FOR THE REST OF YOUR WORTHLESS LIVES!!!

>>41683940
This is basically where I am at. I originally began keto for the alleged mental clarity and the fact that I don't think humans should be eating very many grains. But I found it hard to recover on keto, not to mention the amount of money spent on avacados, coconut oil, etc. My big worry with going low carb is my energy levels, I feel like if I have to be either in ketosis or eating a bunch of carbs to maintain my energy. I'm on day 2 after quitting keto btw.

>>41683339
>not realizing that sodium is the real silent killer

sort yourself out or face certain doom breh.

>>41688518
Shut up sodium bitch

>>41688518
just drink more water faggot

>>41683339
how much calories in this ?
>4 eggs = 7x4 = 280 calories roughly
>that beef is like 500 calories


I estimate around 800 if that plate is as big as I think it is but im shit at estimating

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>>41685977

Just a reminder. This graph is indexed from the year when US per capita sugar consumption PEAKED.

It's massively dishonest and if you are using it for any kind of argument at all you are a fucking fool.

It's similar to this >>41685645 That graph ends the year sugar consumption peaked.

Always look at the start point and end point of graphs kids, particularly year indexed graphs. Manipulating that shit is chapter one of page one of "How to lie with a graph."

>>41684023
Do tell how.

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>>41688897

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>>41688954
>inblyign

>>41688954
Why is he so fat?

>>41684628
he ate half a stick of butter a day

>>41683377
>>41683405

I know bait, but its amazing medical professionals still shill the lipid hypothesis when keto has blown it out of the water.

>>41684479

I like this post

>>41689025
>he ate half a stick of butter a day and a bunch of sugar

fixed that for you

>>41684871
Have you ever cooked a meal before? And no getting your mommy to cook some tendys for you doesnt count.

>>41689067

No sugar, he was a prominent low-carb advocate/blogger. As such, he got sucked into the same false narrative.

>>41689077
Obviously he was a weak-willed beta cuck and cheated.

>>41689077
Healthy dietary fat can't hurt your heart in the absence of sugar.

>>41689086

Or he ate a diet high in saturated fat and low in healthful carbohydrates and experienced the expected outcome

>>41689122

Not all dietary fat is healthy

>>41683339
There were actually multiple "holy shit we need to ban sugar" freakouts during the years where sugar and then corn syrup were subsidized by the gov, we always knew.

>>41689158
>sugar
>healthy

This guy!

>>41689576

>I think entirely in strawman arguments

>>41689047

It hasn't if you check more recent studies they've come to the conclusion that as of right now.

Some people can handle it fine, some handle it better, and some just can't handle it. It's no longer the black and white issue people have thought it has been.

>>41689599

What recent studies and who specifically has come to that conclusion?

>>41689592
>I think carbohydrares are more than sugar
Comedy gold

HFLC works but you must, must do weightlifting and cardio to get the effects of longevity

>>41685916

durianirder is a fucking cunt.

>>41686592

never heard of fruit and vegetables, do you?

Those have sugar in it.

>>41689646
what frequency of cardio/lifting?

>>41683339
other way around.
sugar is fine
satuarted fats is the real killer, and is what causes diabeties, not sugar.

>>41683339

enjoy the inflammation and cancer.

>>41689780
this

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>>41684450
>mfw calories are literally just a measurement of energy
>people still reject the notion that if our bodies have to burn more energy than we take in on a given day, existing energy stores must be used, therefore reducing weight

>>41684349
All those things you mentioned are 70-95% sugar by weight, most of it in the form of starch which starts breaking down into simpler sugars via our saliva.

I eat 150g whole wheat pasta daily, as well as 100g rice.

Are carbs really that bad, or is it a meme?

These are the only carbs i eat outaide of trace carbs in other food items.

>>41689914
carbs are diabetes

>>41684023
>being this retarded
lel

>>41688996
It's ok bruh , this FAT FUCK runs on KETONE , he's a FAT burning machine , he's allowed to look like a fucking Hippo because he run on FAT.

Keto is perfectly ok but some FAT retard use it as escapism , they believe they're allowed to be sedentary fat piece of shit if they run on FAT & KETONE .

>>41689965

Instead of making their body run on ketone more Fat fuck should make their body RUN .

>>41684053
I eat about 30 eggs per week and my cholesterol levels are completely normal.

>>41690188
Post them

>>41690188
It's said that there are individuals who are basically unaffected by dietary cholesterol. Good predisposition.

>>41689938
Could someone other than this chuckle fuck elucidate me?

>>41690302
Whole wheat pasta is perfectly fine. Rice is too if you're not evereating, might consider buying brown/black over white though.

>>41684742
your mom still hasn't learnt what defrosting is?

>>41683377

this is literally based on one bullshit cherry picked study from fucking forever ago

>>41683339
bump

>>41683412
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

My grandparents did high fat low carb all their lives, they died in their mid-90's. My genes want me to do keto, there's no two ways to it.

>>41683339
Nothing wrong with both, the problem is people overeat.

Moderation is key.

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>>41689158
>healthful carbohydrates

>>41685936
looks like shit

please kys

>>41683339

because sugar industry in the US lobbied, marketed and produced "research" to make it seem that way

>>41689856
"pre" breakfast? wtf

>>41692244
you don't want to eat breakfast on an empty stomach

>>41692244
I eat pre-breakfast.

But I am not fat, nor is it as many calories as there are in a single one of those items.

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>>41690231
here

>>41683695
mostly I have a lot of meat, eggs, cheese, i use butter and oil to cook..... one thing I like a lot is chopped cauliflower heated in the pan, bacon, chorizo, eggs and cheese, its delicious
>>41684662
i meant that I dropped the diet because i went to a festival and had a lot of beer and kebabs etc for example..
>>41686398
I dont think so, I drink 3L of water a day and i have much less fat everywhere in my body

>>41684479
What does this poster eat I wonder?

>>41683339
Sugar lobby in Washington DC. No joke. They paid for all those studies in the 20th century that said fat was bad for you.

Wait, Americans still believe in low carb despite getting fatter and fatter? Nice. You'll be easy pickings very soon.

>>41692756
>Wait, Americans still believe in low carb

The vast majority of Americans don't believe in low carb though? Which is why they're so fucking fat.

>>41689808
its the opposite

carbohydrates are what cause apoptosis and inflammation which leads to cancer

>>41684521
>Trans fat: man made

Have I got news for you... Grab a steak or jug of whole milk and read the fat section.

>>41683339
>sugar
>enemy
rip

>>41684479
And vegans,
>Hey! I'm gonna eat this cookie that has no animal products in it! Its vegan! So healthy!

>>41692843
>Grab a steak or jug of whole milk and read the fat section.
those are saturated fats dummy. Trans fats are hydrogenated vegetable oi

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>>41693270
Nig nig. Also saturated fats aren't worse than unsaturated

>>41693317
>>41693270
>>41692843
Are you guys from a 3rd world country?

The US has outlawed Trans fats. Nothing has trans in it anymore.
Perhaps you should move to a more developed, advanced country.

>>41693382
Not true. Companies were given time to taper off and find new recipes. They aren't actually banned until mid-2018.

>>41693382
Red meat inherently has trans fats you fucking idiot, especially if you fry or sautée it.

>>41685008
fucking hell, you just went full retard

>>41693397
Are you fucking retarded?
protip: Google.com has all the answers
PropPROtip: Look for the .gov sources

>>41692772

Carbs have been normie enemy #1 since Atkins first came out. Atkins, South Beach, Paleo, Keto, etc. All these low carb diets and everyone's fatter than ever.

>>41693382
newsflash when you heat vegetable oils it becomes a transfat, its a loophole

>>41683339

Sugar industry propaganda. They hired an army of "scientists" from the same school the tobacco industry hired their "second hand smoke isn't harmful" shills.

>>41692176
What ethnicity are you?

>>41693896

Can we use this loophole to activate our almonds?

>>41693927
white I guess

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>>41692529

Severely underrated response.

The "food pyramid" from the 20th century with carbs/grains as the largest part of a healthy diet was very literally bought and paid for by a powerful lobby of grain farmers, along with all of the underlying "science" backing it. That's literally the *only* reason generally-accepted nutrition knowledge was so bad until very recently.

I knew two men who made it past 90 and they both ate greasy meat and white bread and generally way too much salt according to nutritionists, I guess. They also worked in their gardens and with tools their whole lives, got plenty of sunlight and had plenty of kids and grandkids. I think the idea that there is one correct way for everyone to eat is absurd, and I think that psycho-social lifestyle is overlooked by people who get too focussed on nutrition and weird autistic gym workout culture. Plus, one of my grandfathers got thyroid cancer in his 70s and when you're unfortunate enough to get hit by that (be it genetics or something else that caused it) all your fitness and stuff won't matter, that type of cancer is never detected early enough to save you. Who knows, maybe he would have lived as long as the other two if his cancer had been detected fast. He had a similar but slightly worse lifestyle than the others, many night shifts and subjected to quite a bit of radiation probably.

>>41694006
>>41692529
>>41693908

>every explanation is an appeal to conspiracy

>>41694024

>conspiracy

American agricultural lobbies are not a weird conspiracy theory, anon. America is one of the great bread-baskets of the world, and the lobbies that our food-producing industries control have always been a powerful force in our politics.

Between that, and the fact that the USDA publicly *invited* food-industry executives to advise the federal government when it was creating and propagating the food pyramid, it's really not a "conspiracy theory" at all. It's just a history lesson in American politics.

>>41684604
>Sazon

this is probably the most underrated seasoning. makes the leanest of chicken breasts taste great

>>41694155

>American agricultural lobbies

And these American agricultural lobbies also control every other government and every international group of nutrition specialists? Everybody gives virtually the same diet advice, because it's the only advice with adequate scientific evidence behind it. Whole grains are good for you.

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>>41684053
Are you bait? There is a ton of research to support little to weak correlation between dietary cholesterol and your cholesterol profile.

>http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/02/10/ajcn.115.122317.abstract

Conclusion: Egg or cholesterol intakes were not associated with increased CAD risk, even in ApoE4 carriers (i.e., in highly susceptible individuals).

>>41694344
That's a cohort study though. There are tons of studies on both sides that seem objective and conclusive. It notes that the cholesterol consumption has been pretty stable for decades and the main counter-argument is that what matters the most is baseline serum cholesterol. Meaning if it's normal eggs won't change anything but if it's low or very low (which is better) dietary cholesterol has a big effect. I tend to belive the contra eggs side more, it just doesn't seem to make sense that consuming cholesterol has no effect on serum cholesterol. I mean just purely from a common sense standpoint why the hell wouldn't it?

>>41694344

>There is a ton of research to support little to weak correlation between dietary cholesterol and your cholesterol

And what you posted isn't one. It's not looking at the impact of dietary cholesterol on blood cholesterol levels, you posted an observational study looking at egg consumption and health outcomes.

It looked at a small number of men for this type of study and even less were able to provide carotid IMT data. They used a 4-day food diary at the start of the study to make correlations 21 years later, assuming those 4 days would be an accurate representation of their diets for that long. The study took place in Finland, where the differences in diets between people are insignificant. The lowest quartile of dietary cholesterol intake was 100mg lower than the highest consumers, and was still over 300mg/d. At the start of the study, less than a percent were using cholesterol-lowering medication. By the time of the follow-up, nearly half were. The level of egg consumption they looked at was also between 1/3 of an egg per day at the low end and 2/3 of an egg per day at the high end.

There's another study like this done in America that had the opposite results for carotid IMT.

http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/article/S0021-9150%2812%2900504-7/abstract

Meta-analysis of egg consumption found increase in CVD risk and diabetes even at low level of consumption

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23643053

Meta-analysis of controlled feeding experiments showing dietary cholesterol definitely affects blood cholesterol

http://www.ibcmt.com/2009-03-16-EffectsOfDietaryCholesterolOnSerumCholesterol-PaulHopkins.pdf

Even when there isn't a significant increase in blood cholesterol, dietary cholesterol can increase CVD risk

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002191509900310X

>>41694222

>And these American agricultural lobbies also control every other government and every international group of nutrition specialists?

Good question. You would have to check your own country's 20th century history. Maybe your country was influenced strongly by USDA-propagated guidelines, maybe not. American institutions were highly respected in the mid-late 20th century.

>Everybody gives virtually the same diet advice, because it's the only advice with adequate scientific evidence behind it.

Again, check your history. The Americans making up most of this thread are talking about a history that includes a USDA-pushed set of guidelines that was influenced more by executives than dieticians/nutritionists.

>Whole grains

Irrelevant, whether or not you're right. We're talking history here; the whole-grains meme is extremely new on the relevant timeline.

You're way off base here senpai.

>>41694602

If you're arguing by way of conspiracy, you need better posts than "check your history"

>>41694601
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23643053

Do you have access to the absolute risk values? All I see are RRs and can't view the full paper?

>>41683533
this.

Check out the book Salt, Sugar, Fat.

>>41683339
If you eat a diet super heavy in fats or sugar, you gain weight.

In the 60s or 70s, some guys found that high fat diets lead to obesity, so they said "eat less fat". They did not think this through.

You basically have three macronutrients: fat, protein, carbohydrates. If you tell people to cut fat, they need to fill the void with protein or carbohydrates. Protein is expensive, so people wanting to cut fat ended up eating way more carbs.

This also happened at the same time as processed sugar became a big thing. Now complex carbs were being replaced with simple sugars, and could still be called a "low fat" product.

Now that almost everything has sugar added to it, the amount of sugar the average American is consuming is significantly more than a few decades ago. And now people are realizing that sugar makes you fat, there will eventually be a swing to low sugar diets that are inevitably high in fat.

People need to realize that they key to a healthy diet is balance.

>>41694824
you forgot to mention that everything also has palm oil in it, which is even worse for you than sugar

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Both the keto lovers and haters will get buttmad, but the best diet is your favorite foods from the edge of the store.
Fruits veggies section, meat counter, dairy.
None of the shit in the middle. If it comes premade in a box or bag it's shit.

>>41683827

Yes you can dude it's called cyclical keto, you carb up once or twice a week to replenish glycogen stores. I fucking hated being in perpetual brain fog but it's definitely possible

>>41694824

>In the 60s or 70s, some guys found that high fat diets lead to obesity, so they said "eat less fat". They did not think this through.

Where do you get this shit?

Go back and read >>41685840

There's valid reasons for limiting some types of fat regardless of calories. That's the fat people are told to eat less of. When you see recommends for things like low-fat dairy, skinless chicken breast, etc, it's not because you're being told to eat less fat, but because those foods have the type of fat that is bad for health. When it comes to healthier fats, they're actually pushed pretty hard. 1/3 of your calories are to come from fat, a lot of it coming from oils.

>>41683339
Because we named it fat.

That is it, marketers went crazy saying LOW FAT which is easy when you pour in a bag of sugar to compensate

>>41694006
You just gonna ignore the fact that rice ,legumes, tubers,grains have been part of our diet since the agricultural revolution. The real enemy is refined enriched wheat,corn sugar products, hydrogenated vegetables oils.

>sugar is bad for you

Meanwhile, any endurance athlete is gorging on high carb anything and are completely fine. You would expect tour de France cyclists to drop dead from all those sugars they ingest during the race and training and yet, they somehow manage to live to their 80ies and 90ies. You food autists are like that old grandma who's 115 and being asked how she managed to live that long she replies with some random shit like drink some lemon juice, get up precisely at x in the morning, etc. Basically, she doesn't know jack shit and neither do you.

>>41694651

The posts are fine. You're just an ignoramus who thinks that, "lobbying groups often influence political actions, like the propagation of guidelines and regulations" is some kind of wild conspiracy theory.

You haven't even proposed an alternative explanation for historically-bad public nutritional knowledge. You've just autistically fixated on this "conspiracy" idea, and arbitrarily equated a basic history lesson with some kind of area-51-tier lunacy.

>>41695247
I'm not an endurance athlete.

>>41695590
Everybody who does sport should carb up, especially high intensity sport. The only athletes who sometimes don't are super long distance runners who run for like 10 hours which is not sustainable with carbs.

>>41695575

>The posts are fine

They really aren't for what they're trying to argue. There's a global collective of researchers who have all come to about the same conclusions on what a reasonable diet looks like. This isn't because some lobbying group is paying the world off, it's because that's what the best, most consistent data indicates.

>You've just autistically fixated on this "conspiracy" idea

It's your entire argument.

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All of you (maybe not, I'm not reading this whole thread) are wrong.

https://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1970

>>41696059
>forums
>/showthread
No thanks.

>>41683533
thanks for the recommendation

>>41696070
Don't be so paranoid.

>Q: What is the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook?

>A: The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook has been completely updated for 2008 and comes bundled with the Beginner Home Exercise Program and an Online Calculator to set up the diet. The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook can be ordered as a hardcopy book or e-book, both come with digital downloads of the Exercise Handbook and Online Calculator. You can read more about them here.

>The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook is an integrated approach of nutrition and exercise to drop fat and bodyweight rapidly in the safest way possible. By focusing only on the essential nutrients, and doing the right kind of weight training, you can drop fat and bodyweight rapidly.

>This comes in handy when you only have a short time to generate huge changes. The Rapid Fat Loss Diet approach can also be used to kickstart a more moderate fat loss diet.

>>41696107
>here's my opinion on a topic
>buy my book

Please, you can't take someone like that serious. ANYONE who does that has to be immediately doubted, their incentive is not to improve science and educate people, their incentive is to sell their shit to make a living. Same goes for basically every related youtube channel.

>>41696147
Dude, that's literally Lyle McDonald.

>>41696188
Literally who?

>>41683339
no insulin
no fat retention
but also no energy uptake to the muscles
so shit gains
talking from experience, after years of fasting, eating 'clean' (which translates to eating like you live in a hospital)
people are literally obsessed with looking dry
they train like olympic athletes while eating like cancer patients

enjoy your dry look and stale gains for life

>>41696188
>>41696188
Should I know him? Because I've literally never heard of that name. There is nobody you should belive just because the name. Especially not if he pulls shit like "here's my guidance book, buy it now as a physical copy or e-book!!!!"

Can you at least see how fundamentally bad that is? It's basically clickbait.

>>41696225
takeaway:
TRAIN THE CARBS

>>41696212
I see you've only read the sticky. I'm not going to waste my time responding with a rookie in fitness.

>>41696225

>no insulin
>no fat retention

What does that even mean? Whether you're eating any kind of food or fasting, you're secreting insulin. If you eat more calories than your body uses, you're storing body fat.

>>41696235
>no true scotsman on my brosciencefu with a petty kinesiology undergrad degree
Let me laugh even harder

neither sugar nor fat is "the enemy"
"the enemy" is overeating, plain and simple. the "what" doesnt make you fat, the "too much" does.

I eat salt peanuts. Am I fucking up?

>>41696321
if that is the case, then why care about sugar?
the calorie model literally invalidates any macro partition
that is why it is pretty much an oversimplification

>>41696342
Bro, at least google his name before you keep making a fool of yourself.

>>41696444
Did you know that Einstein said some fundamentally wrong things too?

>>41696466
Einstein was a fame seeking hack, like every kike. He just stole from minds much greater than his. He was just really smart about propaganda.

>>41696466
Wow, imagine the world if everyone was as brilliant as you.

>>41696384

>if that is the case, then why care about sugar?

Because free sugars have other harmful effects independent of weight gain. If we're just talking about body weight, yeah, you can eat anything and either gain, lose, or maintain if you calculate it correctly. It may be harder to stop yourself eating too much depending on the foods you eat, but that's the bottom line.

Long-term health is a separate issue.

>>41696354
Sugar fucks with my liver, my heart, my teeth, and my dick. Fat doesn't seem to be hurting me in any way I can quantify. You can be thin (not fit) as fuck on a 100% sugary diet but you can say goodbye to your teeth and your dick.

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>>41696444
>argumentum ad googlum
Just as expected. And quite rich coming from a broscientist-worshipping toddler.

>>41696786
>>41696736
Using fat only also produce WAY less free radicals , recovery is insane on a low carbs diet .

>>41696795
I just read the articles about macros in general, they are actually pretty good overall.

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>>41696801

The opposite of refined sugar isn't fat. Fruit for example as a source of natural sugar also contains a lot of antioxidants and anti-inflammatory compounds.

>>41696853
Yeah. "Look at me being retarded" makes for pretty good entertainment.

>>41696801
Fat metabolism causes the most oxidative stress out of all macronutrients. In fact it's one of the mechanisms by which high fat diets induce insulin resistance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604133
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19188683

>>41696894
He makes diet regimes for Mr. Olympia contestants, what do you make?

>>41697151
You really are stupid, aren't you?

>>41694916

Cool now we have momscience in the thread

>>41697006
You telling me you bough that first study ? Because the abstract tell us nothing about Fat & oxidative stress . Care to upload it please ? Or did you just google some keyword in google scholar and took the first link that seemed to support your view ?

Study 2 :
>Make rat Eat 100% or 60% VEGETABLE oil
>Lot of oxidation stress
>WHO WOULD'VE THOUGH .

>>41697276
And we have absolutely no information on the rest of the diet , GREAT , so the 40% could be fucking fruity loop .
This is biased study 101.

There's interesting research that shows people have a sugar consumption over time threshold before sugar starts to act as an arterial inflammatory. This inflammation response over and over will, the research suggests, lead to a slow build up of microscopic scar tissue within the circulatory system. This is where the the lipids initially start sticking to eventually create buildups and blockages.

>>41697276
>You telling me you bough that first study ? Because the abstract tell us nothing about Fat & oxidative stress . Care to upload it please ?
I have access to the journal through my university. Try not being a middle school dropout.

>Make rat Eat 100% or 60% VEGETABLE oil
There's some soybean oil to satisfy the EFA requirements (~5.5% of calories), the rest is lard. Are you mentally deficient?

>>41697006
What is a "high fat diet"?

>>41697361
>And we have absolutely no information on the rest of the diet , GREAT , so the 40% could be fucking fruity loop .
The diet content is published by the manufacturer. A 0.1% carbohydrate diet is still worse than control btw

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25055153

For humans, in the first reviewed I linked earlier

>An isocaloric comparison of all three major macronutrients administered independently, as well as incorporated into a mixed meal in a sample of young (27 ±7 years), healthy men was recently conducted in our laboratory
>The independent test meals were based on each subjects’ body mass and were comprised of liquid whipping cream (lipid; 1g fat/kg), dextrose (carbohydrate; 2.25g CHO/kg), and a whey/casein powder (protein; 2.25g protein/kg), with the mixed meal being an equal combination of the three (33% of each). We noted an exacerbated increase in H2O2 and MDA in response to the lipid meal when compared to all other meals.

>This is biased study 101.
More like it triggered you because it happens to threaten your diet religion, meaning you anti-intellectually and reflexively reject everything it says regardless of the empirical support.

>>41697707
A diet with a high percent of calories coming from fat.

>>41696342
Not that anon but... Bash him all you want, Lyle's stuff is always on point for it's purpose, his books were never meant to get you living to 100 but they will get you thick, tight, solid very efficiently.

>>41697873
80% fat 15% protein 5% carbs is a "high fat diet" then
60% fat 20% protein 20% carbs is also a "high fat diet"

high fat diet is a shit descriptor

>>41698005
It describes a diet high in fat, you fucking clown. You can't read? You're illiterate? Go to the nearest kindergarten and learn the alphabet.

>>41698207
I think you might qualify for neetbux. Look into it.

>>41684479
Kek

>>41698495
Probably do. STEM PhD students aren't paid very well in my country.

> not giving your body the best fuel for maximum energy
>making it
pick one

>>41683695
tuna, mayo onion, cheese combo

breakfast egg, cheese, bacon, sour cream scramble

peanut butter, half and half, spinach, protein powder, greek yogurt, strawberry shake

>>41684952
>he's fat

what a surprise

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>>41689914
The longest lived population on Earth lives almost entirely off of carbs.

>>41699131

Or at least did in the past. They eat more fat and meat now and coincidentally are more overweight with more health problems.

>>41684045
>vegetable oils are even cheaper and even worse for your health than sugar
Idiot.

>>41688500
So, you basically you found out you had no idea what you were talking about.


Tell me more about your grain theories.

How is it always the Jews?

>>41684349
soda is king over all of those x1000. sorry bud.

>>41689856
Just imagine her post dinner. Or her dinfast?

>>41683368
Danf g rhis sounds like something a mortal kombat character would say nice

>>41692277
I break my fast before breaking my fast.

>>41689047
This?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw8hufhIDu0

>>41701231

No, the lipid hypothesis is the principle idea of cardiology where an excess of cholesterol-carrying lipoproteins in the blood is said to encourage the development of and increase the severity of plaque build-up in the walls of arteries

Nutritionfacts has videos on that too

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-do-we-know-that-cholesterol-causes-heart-disease/

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/optimal-cholesterol-level/

>>41688444
TRIPS OF TRUT