ATTENTION ALL NOVICES!

Same shit

>>41505465

I've seen this copypasta before.

So I've come to the conclusion that you can't be trusted, you are clearly a SS shill. Why should I listen to you?

I'm starting to think SS is a meme.

they're both garbage programs

I liked SL
I wish I added accessories sooner, deloaded more often, and took advantage of 3x5 sets.

questions for you op

say we progress slower overall on 5x5 while also not hitting the end of our beginner gains as quickly as you would on SS, will that maximize strength gains over all after switching to the texas method for instance, in the same span of time as completing stronglifts? also, Since I'm assuming you've read starting strength, have you read 5x5 in detail with regards on how to do the program? They have periodization in place for when You hit plateaus to maximize gains on the program. Starting strength suggests to increase weight on squats and deadlifts 10-15lbs/ session where as 5x5 suggests only 5lbs and on an empty bar. starting strength also suggests starting with an empty bar but i'll assume you implied that and that the rapid weight adding makes the difference. Is it safer to add such weight so rapidly? especially for the novice who lacks a coach and in most situations lacks proper discipline to enforce good form? Does 5x5 which is slower in weight gaining make a novice feel more secure with shitty form thats been adapted where as good form is easier to adapt with rapid weight gain? I think I already mentioned the 3-set thing with my question of your knowledge of the periodization in 5x5. A difference between 5x5 and starting strength is that Starting strength the book should actually be read because most of the starting strength memes don't give any information about the programs progressions/deloads/accessory work/etc... 5x5 doesn't change aside from periodization. that's why that blaha faggots 5x5 is popular because it includes accesory work that people don't know exists in SS. I can't think of anything else.

>>41505731
SS is not a meme, but in the grand scheme of things ones choice of beginner program is pretty irrelevant

>>41505731
>>41505743
>>41505495
The point is not really to do SS instead of SL. Don't give a shit.

Point is just don't do SL, do any other novice program that was prepared by somebody with actual knowledge !

>>41505465
that's like your opinion, man

makes literally no difference how many sets/reps you do as a novice, as long as you're lifting heavy

>>41505815

The first sentence is literally saying do SS instead of SL.

Are you retarded?

>>41505777
>Starting strength suggests to increase weight on squats and deadlifts 10-15lbs/ session
SS says also that you won't be able to keep doing this beyond about the first 2-6 sessions.
But still, for the first session you should add as much as you want until your bar speed slows down

>>41505465
starting strength doesn't have enough upper body, and who gives a fuck about functional very few people need functional strength in their day to day life

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I can't imagine having to spend 5 minutes between the sets of SL

that would be 20 minutes of rest just to do squat, another 20 for deadlifts, another 20 for ohp, 60 minutes in total

lol no thanks

>>41505465
I started with SL and I wish I hadn't.

But don't pretend for a send that there is any significant difference between SL and SS.

If I could go back in time to give newbie DYEL me some advice, it would be to start with Greyskulls LP

So what is the best novice program?

Can anybody actually come to some sort of agreement on that?

I've seen literally every beginners program dismissed and called shit or called a meme. Is there any that are actually good?

>>41505852
>starting strength doesn't have enough upper body
it has plenty of upper body. it's just you fags think upper body work should be 90% of the workout, and you think doing a bunch of light weight isolation exercises are somehow more productive than heavy compound upper body exercises .

>>41505852
>what is ohp/bench press
>what are accessories

stop spreading this bullshit meme please

>>41505495
>same shit
>10 more reps

a novice doesn't need 5x5 to progress. 3x5 is enough.

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>>41505873
>it's just you fags think upper body work should be 90% of the workout,

holy this, thanks for saying that. Most people I see in the gym have shit legs and general physiology mainly for that.

they call me "strong" for squatting 3 plates and ask me for advice thinking I've been lifting for years or some shit, when I only started SS 5 months ago.

>>41505869
yes the consensus has long been there except for the SS memers who want to troll newbies into doing this garbage and end up looking like shit will continue to stirr this up

Aspiring powerlifters:
> Izzy Naverez' PowerliftingToWin basic

Aspriing athletes:
> WS4SB

Aspiring bodybuilders:
> Lyle McDonald's gneric bulk

General strength and mass:
> Jonnie Candito's linear

>>41505868
>But don't pretend for a send that there is any significant difference between SL and SS.
there are enough difference that it's pointless to do SL when SS exists. it's just a superior routine.

greyskull isn't that great.

>>41505887
>3 plates in 5 months
What the fuck

>>41505909
I didn't start with the bar, my legs where somewhat strong from all the time I wasted doing leg press

>>41505909
not him, but that's expected progress on SS if done CORRECTLY (which almost never happens). SS is extremely effective

>>41505919
>>41505920
brb, switching to SS

>>41505958
note: after 1 month I stalled because my food was not enough. You need to eat to see real progress.

>>41505920
If you're willing to become a fatty, mind you. Only way to gain so much strength is to gain a shitton of mass.

>>41505968
>because my food was not enough.
I've been doing SL but I think that's my problem, I haven't been counting calories until now. After 5 months I'm only on 1 and 1/4 plates for 5x5.

if you are not some ultra skeleton it shouldn't take you very long to squat 3pl8. all you have to do is eat enough and sleep enough.

finished my first workout with 70 kg squat. 6.5 months later i was squatting 140 for 3x5

>>41505903
Mr. ripplingutters himself said that newbies will get stronger on any program that progresses calling it the novice effect. Not sure of the other routines but canditos especially would not be good for a novice. Intermediate maybe.

How long into SS does it take for my body to get used to squatting to the point I don't have DOMS 24/7

>>41506154
DOMS only happens for the first time you exercise a muscle that hasn't been used in a while. it should last for 1-2 days at most. just stretch and it should go away

>>41505867
>another 20 for deadlifts
why are you doing 5 sets of deadlifts buddy

>>41506179
because despite the urban legend deadlift wont overwork your cns and overtrain you. I bet you've never even tried it.

>>41505903

Anyone able to back this up?

I've only heard of candito, but doesn't that encompass 3 different workouts? Are all 3 valid?

>>41506207
Starting strength is excellent for the novice lift to develop the foundation for future strength training. If you want to lift for aesthetics/oly/powerlifting. start with starting strength. After you've hit intermediate levels for lifting (when You can't get stronger without needing more that 72 hours to recover) switch your routine to something that matches your goals.

>>41505465
What program should a novice do instead?

>>41506206
I should prefer not to, given the difficulty of deadlifts as it is.

>>41506154
A week or something

>>41506244
Didn't the rest of this thread make you figure that out by now?

What's the difference?

They both have the same workouts and progression

>>41506345
3x5
5x5

SL's start with just the bar for your first session is kind of silly unless you're so horrifically detrained or maimed you literally can't get more on the bar at the very beginning.

Otherwise, it's a crapshoot as to which is better for someone who's training to get non-sports-specific stronger.

>>41506404
look, if you never lifted in your life, never done any of those exercises in your life, never read anything beforehand, etc. you just want to trust and follow the program by the letter because you don't know better.

by the time you realize what you've done it's too late because you started the first day squatting 20kg, the second 22.5kg, etc.

>starting strength app is $9

why?

>>41506455
better question: why do you need a SS app?
just use FitNotes.

>>41506206

You're clearly still a beginner. When the weight gets heavy, you will experience a burnout and prolounged period of fatigue. This is true for any max lifts, especially deadlift since it's the lift that uses absolute strength. It's also true for olympic lifting. A friend of mine recently did a max effort clean and jerk at nationals and now three weeks later he's just getting back into his regular shape.

Although I see your point to a certain degree. Anyone who does five sets of deadlifts aren't exactly doing five sets of 100% intensity.

>>41506495
never heard of it, but i'll try it

If SS and SL are so bad, then what should a novice do?

made a post in some thread where OP was asking for progression but it got deleted so here it is if anyone is interested in how they should progress

start with SS. in second week start doing chinups. in third week add dips (if you can do them pain free) otherwise add next week exercises. in fourth week add LTE and weighted planks. i'd strongly suggest you also do back extensions. once you can do 3x10 bw chinups and dips start adding weight (pref. in 1kg jumps if you can otherwise 2 is fine). sets/reps are up to you for these two exercises. personally i'd go as heavy as you can and go by prilepin table for progression or you can keep doing them for volume. both are fine however dips will really help you with your press once you can dip heavy.

once you stall on an exercise reduce the weight by around 10% and keep going. when you stall 3 times deload by 10% and switch to candito linear program.

once you stall on candito linear you have several options

>candito 6 week
>sheiko 37-30-32
>28 free from nuckols

all of the above are great intermediate programs with accessories. if you want to look good just add in some accessory work after main lifts in the 4x8-12 range

>>41506670
SS

>>41506670
They're not bad and do what they purport to do - get you stronger, fast. They don't do what they're not designed to do, get you hypertrophy and/or looking buff.

It's been hammered endlessly LOL SS MAKES YOU FAT AND UNAESTHETIC by morons who think spending six months getting stronger without the accompanying fuckboi aesthetic somehow makes it impossible to change programs as an intermediate with a different goal.

>>41506404

That seems to be people's biggest problem with SL.

Can't people just fast forward a couple of weeks and start on a higher but comfortable weight, then just carry on the program from that point, surely you don't HAVE to start with just the bar.

>>41506765
Dead on. SS's recommendation of "your first set is where the bar slows down" is a good one.

>>41506677
Checked and kekked.

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>>41505465
Nice CopyPasta.

I did Stronglifts 5x5 + a diet on point + a good amount of cardio, and I went from 506lbs to 208lbs at 11% bodyfat in 2.5 years. Minimal loose skin. I may be a genetic freak, but 5x5 took me all the way to 450 deadlift, 395 squat, 185 ohp. Maybe 215 bench, cant remember exactly when I got off it.

3x5 is great if you want minimal mass but a good amount of strength gains (or need to preserve existing strength on a heroic cut). More volume = more mass.

>>41506518
I kind of doubt that happened from one single rep. The build up to the competition probably effected his recovery as well