VEGANS BTFO

If humans weren't meant to eat meat, it would literally be poisonous to us. You could literally murder someone by sneaking a small amount of it into their food.

Now, the QUANTITY we eat, and how we PREPARE it could be improved. But that's a separate issue.

>>41330324
>>41330664
>Strawman
Eating meat is unnecessary, not unnatural

>>41330324
Not even vegan but most vegans don't argue whether or not it's natural. They claim animal products aren't needed because we don't need to hunt for our food anymore. Since we all easily have access to the nutrients we need through plant sources at local stores, animal product consumption is unnecessary and wasteful.

The sooner you switch to a healthy vegan diet with vitamin B 12 supplements, the sooner you can function at optimal health.

>>41330664
Humans aren't 'meant' to eat anything. Certain evolutionary adaptations allow us to digest meat in order to survive, it doesn't mean it's optimal for health

>>41330664
We can eat it, it is just detrimental. No one in their right mind thinks it is poison.

It is a direct cause of heart problems though, so if you can avoid eating meat then you are preventing a lot of future issues for yourself

>>41330763
>>41330796
I've heard it argued many times.
>>41330845
>Supps
Not even once

>>41330893
Senpai you are headed straight for "HURR DURR I WAS ONLY PRETENDING" at an astounding pace

>>41330882
>Cause
Nope just some correlative studies. Finding the causational link and actual mechanism by which the body turns dietary cholesterol into the plaque that sticks to arteries is modern medicines north west passage. Seems like a good hypothesis but it's never yielded solid proof just some circumstantial evidence.

>>41330915
I don't take supposed they are a waste of money and an inefficient way for your body to use available nutrients.

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>>41330929
Been thinking-why not just eat like a gorilla fruits, veggies and the protein dense insects that thrive among us.

Seriously not memeing you could live on that diet alone.

>>41330763
>Strawman
You say that like they were responding to you in particular. There are people who do believe it is unnatural, and you can assume those are arguments against those people.
That is, if you aren't a self absorbed vegan :^)

>>41331040
Yeah why not eat a bunch of bugs a lotta people do. Gorillas eat other meat besides beetle meat too but still insects might be the cheapest protein out there.

>>41330664
>If humans weren't meant to eat refined sugar, it would literally be poisonous to us. You could literally murder someone by sneaking a small amount of it into their food.
>Now, the QUANTITY we eat, and how we INCLUDE it in our food could be improved. But that's a separate issue.
That's what you sound like. And there's another piece of wisdom in that. Just because something is unhealthy doesn't mean you have to stop eating it. You can still indulge on it, but don't delude yourself into thinking that cupcake is healthy.

>>41331040

because animals have different stomachs and enzymes and shit they break down things differently.

Anyone who sees an animal eat anything and think they should because they're doing it a complete fucking moron

>>41330324
>VEGANS BTFO
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
>>41330882
>We can eat it, it is just detrimental.
Meme
>>41330893
>I've heard it argued many times.
And it's bullshit
>>41331152
>Just because something is unhealthy doesn't mean you have to stop eating it.
Meats not even the titular "unhealthy". This myth is a pseudoscientific meme pushed by idiots why know fuck all about science, biology or nutrition; and have and will say anything to justify and push their misinformation
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
>https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>https://authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>http://caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/
>http://www.saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>https://rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>https://deniseminger.com/the-china-study/

>>41331152
What are you trying to prove here? You sound like somebody arguing with someone who agrees with you.

>>41331058
>You say that like they were responding to you in particular
I say that like they were responding to veganism. Just because some vegans are idiots doesn't mean you shouldn't be vegan. Think of it this way: Mark Rippetoe unironically advices weak males to consume about 2500 kcal daily from whole milk, and a total of about 6000 kcal. That is idiotic advice, but it doesn't stop you from drinking say a glass every morning.
Another example inspired from >>41331181:
Many meat eaters say "my canines though", but don't acknowledge how we have terrible canines, even among herbivores/omnivores: take a look at a gorilla's (plant based but eats a tiny bit of meat) canines, or a hippo's canines (100% vegan, among the longest canines in the animal kingdom)

You can keep attacking weak arguments from dumb vegans and think you've "won" (hint: that's the definition of strawman), or you can swallow the red pill, realise that eating meat is unsustainable in regards to deforestation and GHG emissions, acquire some empathy for vulnerable sentient beings and at least reduce the consumption of animal products, by making substitutions where it doesn't affect your pampered taste buds. For example, rice or pea protein are perfect substitutes for whey, most sweets like cakes or ice cream have vegan alternatives that taste and feel just like the dairy versions, order a falafel wrap instead of a burger every now and then, etc. Things like that.

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>>41331281
Oh my god, finally. I was worried you had a heart attack, you took way too long to show up. Don't scare us like that man

>>41331396
>empathy for vulnerable sentient beings
That's the gayest thing I think I've ever read.

>>41331281
I'm definitely not disagreeing with you but Chaos and Pain is honestly a terrible source to try to back up your claims with anon.

>>41331472
His next response will be: "but it links to studies!"
>>41331446
https://m.liveleak.com/view?i=46e_1322945068
>I am such a manly testosterone hairy balls masculine male man that I totally hunt 100% of the meat I eat and totally don't buy prepackaged, precut and preground meat from a factory far away from my eyes and ears. I also wear denim boxers, shave with a rusty box cutter and trim my pubes with the lawnmower because I am a manly man. Huge hairy balls.

>>41331396
>Just because some vegans are idiots doesn't mean you shouldn't be vegan.
Nor does it mean you should
>You can keep attacking weak arguments from dumb vegans and think you've "won" (hint: that's the definition of strawman), or you can swallow the red pill, realise that eating meat is unsustainable in regards to deforestation and GHG emissions, acquire some empathy for vulnerable sentient beings and at least reduce the consumption of animal products, by making substitutions where it doesn't affect your pampered taste buds. For example, rice or pea protein are perfect substitutes for whey, most sweets like cakes or ice cream have vegan alternatives that taste and feel just like the dairy versions, order a falafel wrap instead of a burger every now and then, etc. Things like that.
You haven't given anyone a reason to go vegan or to convince people who know what their talking about that they've "lost" and to take up your pseudoscience rooted meme diet. How you 'feel' because you'd rather nutride a pseudoscientific fad ideology doesn't mean anything
>>41331413
It never matters how long or not it takes me to show up to you, it's not like you read what I post before your spout ignorance and shitpost anyway.
>>41331472
It's a good primer on vegan/vegetarian history and ideology and the pseudoscience behind it; and includes sources. It does it's job well enough.
>>41331517
>His next response will be: "but it links to studies!"
It does. You might want to try reading them,.

is this thread b8? I never heard a vegan say "eating meat isnt natural".

lmfao, random ass claim pulled out of your ass

>>41330877
This guy gets it.

>>41330324
Meat is tasty fuck off vegans

>>41331584
>You haven't given anyone a reason to go vegan or to convince people who know what their talking about that they've "lost" and to take up your pseudoscience rooted meme diet. How you 'feel' because you'd rather nutride a pseudoscientific fad ideology doesn't mean anything
Wrong, you retard
>>41331396
>realise that eating meat is unsustainable in regards to deforestation and GHG emissions, acquire some empathy for vulnerable sentient beings and at least reduce the consumption of animal products
There is more where that came from:
https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/why-go-vegan
In b4 biased, your blogs are biased too and they link to studies
>pseudoscience
TIL the world health organisation and the American dietetic association spout pseudoscience, but CHAOSANDPAIN.BLOGSPOT.ISUCKDICK doesn't
>it's not like you read what I post
Oh I'm sorry, here:
http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
Pinpoint a single source here, I must have missed them

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>>41331281
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html

is this the guy who shoved a banana up his ass?

>>41330877

How about I choose what's optimal for my health then, instead of bowing down to your world view?

>>41331833

enjoy your poor cardiovascular health and a wide array of digestion track issues.

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Can you all agree that people should eat more of a plant-based diet and less meat/dairy?

>>41331911
Who is this trap?

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>>41331880
not him but I will you limp-dick faggot

>>41331911
"no"

>>41331911
i am doing texas method and judo 5 nights a week senpai.

i tried eating like 70-80% veggie diet and could not keep up with recovery. Also brutal amounts of shit and farting. I still eat a lot of oats and beans, but meat is necessary for easily accessible proteins and calories.

>>41331911

yeah, and at this point, its indisputable. The less animal products you consume the less health complications you will have later in your life. If people wanna eat a steak everyday, more power to them, just don't try to claim healthy or doesn't increase mortality

Hey vegans, why is your healthy diet lacking essential nutrients? Doesn't seem very healthy to me.

>>41331911
Maybe some people. Some people eat McDonald's every day doesn't mean I can't have a couple of mcdoubles on a long road trip. Doesn't make my lifestyle unhealthy.

>>41331963
>doesn't increase mortality

Sitting increases mortality.

>>41331974

i think veganism can be healthy short-term with supplements assuming that they actually eat fruits and vegetables and not just taco bell minus the meat and cheese and oreos.

>>41332023
A varied diet is the best.

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>>41331911
people are already eating a "plant-based" diet lmao

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>>41332023

i think it's funny when vegans/vegetarians don't even eat vegetables. it's in the fucking name of your diet.

>>41332062
missing the point lmao

>>41332054
>more
try reading the post before shitposting

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>>41332073

yeah, meat isn't that great for you. maybe grass-fed/organic beef is better but still not great.

>>41331963
>Increase mortality
The mortality rate is 100% unless your a bog bro but they aren't human anyways. Of all the reasons to vegan this is actually the dumbest one, but vegans cling to it because it's the only part of their ideology that has even an iota of actual science behind it. Btw there is no wide meta analysis study that has properly accounted for rise in caloric intake overall, decrease in physical activity overall, and increase in sugar intake overall since WW2. This would go a long way into explaining why blue zone people are able both consume meat (fish too) in moderation and live a very long time. All the blue zone people tend to leave active lifestyle including traditional farm labor activities (except the 7th day Adventist one) it is not a simple subtract this get that equation.

>>41331627
>>41330877

and since we no longer need to eat meat and are an advanced life form that does not require needless torture of others, we should be vegan/vegetarian

>>41332114
>we no longer need to eat meat

We don't need to suck dick but it hasn't slowed you down.

>>41332106
>it's the only part of their ideology that has even an iota of actual science behind it

besides the part where you opt out of unnecessary torture and killing of other creatures

that part doesn't need science you dolt

>>41332125

couldn't care less about animal rights, i just don't want heart disease/colon cancer

>>41332083
yeah better replace that wild sockeye salmon sashimi with fritos, that'll make you much healthier

>>41332125
epic post friend!!!! i'm also 14 and haev just discovered le random board

>>41332140
So eat chicken then. It's obvious there's more to it than what you're letting on because you're equating all meat together. You're either being disingenuous or ignorant.

>>41330324
Vegans are deficit in b12:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329

Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/6/1032.full

Vegans are deficient in omega threes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323085

Vegans are deficit in carnitine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2756917
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928

>>41332144
You discovered /lgbt/ and it was far from random.

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>>41332160

i do eat chicken every now and then, i even eat beef from time to time but most of my diet is plant-based

Vegans are deficient in taurine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3354491

Vegans are deficient in iodine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354

Vegans are deficient in Coenzyme Q10:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873950

Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11269606

Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19103647
http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2346.full


Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35465
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/

Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127.abstract
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772
http://m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49

Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

>>41332183
Then why are we even having this conversation. You're like a Catholic girl.

>>41332137
>Your feelers about life and death don't equal science
See this is why people think vegans are stupid. Your argument is a moral philosophic one when I said science. If you'd like I can bytfo there too because there is nothing morally wrong with killing living things inherently and agriculture is a far cry from torture and in fact comfort of the animal leads to higher rates of production and quality of product.

>>41332193
Is this a chicken-and-the-egg scenario? (no pun intended)

Does being vegan make you more likely to be beta or does being beta make it more like you choose to be vegan?

Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4067152
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8005079

Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874810/pdf/canmedaj01383-0052.pdf

"There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788369

Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137939/

"Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/

These next five are case studies:

Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25076673

Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8442642

Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244

Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3948463

"We report the case of a 7 month-old girl that presented with acute anemia, generalized muscular hypotonia and failure to thrive. Laboratory evaluation revealed cobalamin deficiency, due to a vegan diet of the mother."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18293883

>>41332137
Why not take it to an obvious conclusion? Why not just end your life if the goal is to do as little harm to other lifeforms as possible?

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>>41332194

because even with all its deficiencies veganism is still better than the average american diet.

>>41332237
You're not a vegan though.

>>41332237
Vegan athletes use steroids and other stuff as well and have to use supplements and fortified foods. If the vegan diet is so good then why is all of that required for it to "work"?

>>41332140
You don't need to eat fat as fuck meat, which is a relatively new phenomenon. People never used to finish their animals on grain or corn, it was too fucking expensive. They ate lean grass fed meats.

Listen to this old German

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=advtISqFpac

>>41330324
No vegan says eating meat isn't natural. It's the fucktards that make appeal to nature fallacies that do.

>Our ancestors ate meat!
>We grew through time eating meat!

Our neanderthal ancestors also died at like 30 years old, appeal to nature fallacies = retarded.

>>41332221
Kek. Good question! Hasn't he thought of all the abused Chinamen making his electronics? Why doesn't he protest their industry and abstain from that?

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>>41332247

but i will defend veganism for the most part

>>41332237
>Average American diet
What even is that? That's a straw man if I've ever heard one. Lol how do you define that exactly?

>>41332260
>Our neanderthal ancestors also died at like 30 years old

That was mostly due to our fucked up teeth and the numerous problems that can arise from them. Not to mention these stats are always skewed because they include infant deaths which bring the average down.

>>41332284

fast foot and tostinos pizza rolls?

>>41330324
There's seriously not one single legit reason for eating meat.
inb4 muh convinience and tastebuds

>>41332237
Is your argument "veganism is better than eating yourself to death"? Or are you saying "veganism is easier than eating a healthy balanced diet"?

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>>41332316

what exactly is a healthy balanced diet?

>>41332293
Please take the time to reply to as many of
>>41332213
>>41332193
>>41332164
>>41331281
I'm more than happy to never eat meat again if you can disprove that it's unhealthy not to

Eat whatever the fuck you want and keep your opinions to yourself

>>41332291
Lol average frat boy diet≠all Americans. America is so large and so diverse that any attempt to create an "average diet" wouldn't probably represent very many individuals at all unless you distilled it down to something generic like just macros but this isn't a great indicator of dietary health overall at all.

>>41332331
I suppose in the simplest terms, and there may be a better way of phrasing it, but the correct amount of calories, nutrients and vitamins

>>41332293
>Creatine
>B12
And it tastes good which is subjective but hey so is half the shit you're about to spew I'm sure.

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There's a lot of conflicting research in terms of the health effects of a vegan diet. In my research I've come to the conclusion that it is optimal for health. If you're curious, I would suggest watching some lectures or reading works by Dr. Colin Campbell, Dr. Caldwell Esselystyn, Dr. Neil Barnard, Dr. John McDouggall and many more. These doctors have used plant based diets to not only prevent but also treat chronic disease in their patients including cancers.

I don't want to get into a PubMed link debate because I dealt with that the other day. However, let's assume for convenience of the argument that vegan diets really aren't more healthful than a standard diet, okay? Even so, it is still unethical and horrific for the environment. Animals have a capacity for suffering and exploiting them in inhumane. I'm not trying to make appeal to emotions i.e. MUH ANIMALS. But watch Cowspiracy if you want to know more, it's fucked up. (I don't know why you would want to consume the meat of an animal that exists in it's own shit anyhow, but that's besides the point.)

Also it's been estimated that animal agriculture causes more global green house gases than all of our cars. As well as being completely unsustainable in the long term considering how much water and grains we use to feed said livestock.

>>41330324

I forgot humans had the same brains, stomachs, livers, kidneys, intestines, lungs, etc., as chimpanzees.

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>>41332354

can i get an example?

>>41332361
you are a fag

>>41332382
Not an argument.

>>41332370
Sure, a little research will get you some nice results. If you want to avoid mistakes like veganism in the future, feel free to check out the dozens of sources in this thread stating how unhealthy it is.

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>>41332361

agreed

>>41332361
Can you dispute the frankly more in detail links and resources in this thread contradicting your opinion?
Also do you care about insects if we move on to those as a source of animal meat?

>>41332361
>What's that? You have a brain tumor? Just eat lentils and soy.

>>41332370
Fruits, vegetables, nuts, lentils, leafy greens, whole grains, dairy, eggs, chicken, fish

>>41332361
Just because you saw a few videos of animals in distress doesn't make it the industry standard or common occurrence at all. Comfort of the animals leads to larger yields and higher quality but unfortunately life isn't perfect so situations arise where animals are in distress. I couldn't make the argument that cities are wholly bad because homelessness exists. A vegan monoculture agro economy would be more harmful than the one we have now. It would leave little room for co2 sequestration and because plants are so calorically light it would take an increase of worked arable land to a level that doesn't even exist on Earth.

>>41332361
Insects or guinea pigs would probably be the most efficient source of calories. We don't live in a dystonia nightmare though, so having fulfilling, satisfying food is okay.

>>41332417
In terms of insects, I mean I haven't personally ever really thought about that. But we buy our food at grocery stores now. Unless you're in a survival scenario you don't need to eat meat. If you were in that scenario then yeah! Eat meat so you survive! But we get food from stores, no need. As for all those links I could go through them but that's going to take a lot of time and effort and I don't feel like getting into a PubMed debate.

>>41332419
Strawman fallacy. Look up their work, John McDouggal has a part of his website where his clients show results.

>https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/stars/

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>>41332419

bad diet and unhealthy lifestyle = higher chance of dna being damaged during replication process and creating cancer cells

>>41332443
Oh, you mean from his personal web site that also serves as a way to advertise his programs and shop? Looks extremely unbiased to me.

>>41332331
>what exactly is a healthy balanced diet?

Her ass. Seven days a week

>>41332449
Quite a bit of difference between TREATING the cancer and eating in a way to minimize your chances of getting it (which is largely genetic, by the way)

>>41332458
It's the result of his prescribing them a plant based vegan diet. Either way, generally speaking vegans have lower BMIs than meat eaters and have less health problems.

>>41332368
Closest living relative and we diverged 13 million years ago. That's a lot of meat eating.

>>41332472
Of course there are genetic factors that play into disease risk, but yes, cancer is fucking diet related

>https://www.four-h.purdue.edu/foods/Diet-Related%20Diseases.htm

>>41332477
>vegans have lower BMIs than meat eaters and have less health problems.

Isn't it likely that obesity has more to do with it than the diet itself?

>>41330324
Oh gtf, whoever says that is a tremendous cunt.
Why do we have teeth then? Or forward facing eyes?
Try reasoning that with a lion.

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>living your life based on what apes do

>>41332486
>may increase the risk of
>generally believed

I'm not going to respond to this level of argument.

>>41332491

nature fallacy.

>>41332477
>Lower bmi
Christ do you fall for every meme that walks down the road? Bmi is a formula to measure the effects of famine over general population nothing more. It tells you nothing about the health of a particular individual because composition isn't considered and thanks for admitting veganism kills gainz btw

>>41332490
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4TbTmMF5SE

Here's a study explained simply in a video. Sedentary vegans had better arterial health than marathon runners following a standard American diet. Obesity could be a factor, but it's the animal products and the saturated fat, trans fats, and cholesterol in them that cause atherosclerosis

I still haven't been given a reason why meat is morally bad. Like what is so fucking special about the animal kingdom that makes me unable to eat it? Why is it more special than the plant kingdom or fungus kingdom?

Also apparently killing stuff like mosquito is OK, what is the fucking difference between an insect and a stupid fucking chicken?

Fuck that shit, I am eating everything that isn't pets.

>>41332486
>Related
The Dark Night series is related to a bunch of people getting shot in Aurora but it's not responsible for their death.

>>41332507
Humans are apes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

>>41330845
Optimal health other than being severely mentally ill and always looking DYEL

>>41332561
Been vegan for almost 8 month now, non of the shit you say has happened. Same with all other vegan bodybuilders (Jon Venus, Brian Turner, Torre Washington, Patrik Baboumian). Your fear mongering is weak.

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>>41332559

>living your life based on what other humans do

>>41332544

this isn't a moral issue, fuck animals and we're apex predators after all. I just don't ever wanna die and want to live long enough to become a Robosapien

>>41332579
Oh wowzers 8 months huh!? Lol "vegan" bb with their meat eating gainz are a joke. How would you even know they aren't like all other shills chugging whey protein and pinning anyways?

>>41332561
I know anecdotes aren't arguments. But in my experience, all that has happened is that I lost weight (good, because I needed to cut down), my digestive health improved, I used to have irritable bowel syndrome and couldn't stop vomiting and that's gone away. In my experience, it's been fine, none of the shit you've mentioned in those links has happened.

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>>41332595
>Living your life
>Living

>>41332609
To be fair, a vegan like Nimai Delgado (IFBB pro), he's been vegetarian his whole life and vegan for the last few years. He's definitely on gear, no doubt about that. But the guys I mentioned were natty, you can tell just by looking at them. As for the whey protein thing, well, Brian Turner attributed his skin clearing (he had terrible acne problems) to the vegan diet and eliminating dairy. If he were to eat dairy again, his acne would come back. So that's just one example.

>>41332535
That guy is a quack. His website is set up to look like some government body but it's his personal website and he makes all kinds of ridiculous statements on it for profit. It's not a reliable source.

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>>41332680
He's a fucking doctor. Specifically a physician who graduated from Cornell University and he owns the website.

>>41331396
>I say that like they were responding to veganism.
How fucking full of yourself are you that you could type this?
Also tl;dr

>>41331396
This x1000

>>41332635
>Say I eliminate dairy
>Actually just started clearasil
>???? (Shill)
>Profit

>>41331678
>Wrong, you retard
An guy so up his ass with own memes that he's willing to use any excuse to justify it has no right to call anyone retarded
>In b4 biased, your blogs are biased too and they link to studies
Quit using biased as a buzzword for correct facts and science that hurt your feelings
>TIL the world health organisation and the American dietetic association spout pseudoscience, but CHAOSANDPAIN.BLOGSPOT.ISUCKDICK doesn't
You've brought this up before. The WHO and the ADA do, because they, like you; want to down the memes and nutride this bullshit as much as possible. Just because they want to buy into this bs doesn't mean people with a brain have to. It's actually sad both organization could be this shit.
>Pinpoint a single source here, I must have missed them
Well you've sure got me. Technically it doesn't contain sources, just common sense backed by science, which you can look up; as well as the rest of what I posted which does have sources. Again, you should give them a read.
>>41331880
>enjoy your poor cardiovascular health and a wide array of digestion track issues.
animal products/fats and meat have been shown to have an inverse correlation with each of these
>>41331281
>>41331911
No. Because that's bullshit
>>41331963
>yeah, and at this point, its indisputable.
No. It's not, in any capacity.
> The less animal products you consume the less health complications you will have later in your life. If people wanna eat a steak everyday, more power to them, just don't try to claim healthy or doesn't increase mortality
>>41331281
>>41332099
More memes
>>41332140
>i just don't want heart disease/colon cancer
You've got something much worse. Falling for pseudoscientific bullshit
>>41332114
>and since we no longer need to eat meat and are an advanced life form that does not require needless torture of others, we should be vegan/vegetarian
No one ITT "should" be your fad bullshit. And your posts just keep proving why people shouldn't
>(cont.)

>>41332491
Explain how nature is false then.

>>41332693
Doctors also said smoking was healthy. And drinking while you're pregnant is fine. Because someone is a doctor doesn't make them infallible or even inherently trustworthy.

>>41332724
Lol, you're just on a crusade aren't you? You're clearly not smart enough to engage in an actual debate when you only link biased blogs as evidence for your claims. I don't understand why you're so triggered by vegans though. All they want to do is not eat stuff from animals. You know, the ethical thing, the environmentally friendly thing, and the health conscious (although you deny it no matter what evidence is brought against you). Damn those vegans! You call anything that conflicts with your opinion or position "pseudoscience", you're acting like an SJW would if someone tried to argue with them. "Oh you're a white male!" "Patriarchy!" etc.

>>41332693
>He's a fucking doctor.
Doctors are the most jewish people on the planet. You can't trust them more than any other Jew (not at all).

>>41332693
Some more relevant facts about this guy

>He works for the Humane Society
Pretty fucking odd career choice for a dietary scientist
>His website "NutritionFacts.org" used to be titled the "Vegan Research Institute"
Sounds pretty unbiased to me
>Despite selling books and guides on his site, he claims all the proceeds go to nonprofit charity....a nonprofit charity that runs the site that he also owns

If you're going to argue for veganism this is not the source to do it with. I'm actually doing you a favor.

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>>41332765
At this point there's no reason to even argue anymore. You really just made the "It's the Jews!" argument. I'm fucking done with this, this is laughable.

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Just eat nutrient-dense whole foods, ya dummies. If you wanna eat meat and dairy...eat meat and dairy but in moderation. If you don't want to eat meat and dairy...don't eat meat and dairy but supplement. It's that easy.

>>41332777
I looked it up, and he literally is Jewish.
I tell ya, it's the Jews trying to get white men to all stop eating meat and consequently become giant pussies so their takeover is unhindered.
You are a Jewish spy.

>>41332777
Feel free to address this >>41332766

>>41332766
BTFO

>>41330664
Alcohol is literally a poison to us

>>41332784
In terms of my politics, I'd consider myself a right-wing libertarian. I voted for Trump, and I support Le Pen in France. Not all vegans are liberal sissies, I know it's hard to believe.

>>41332766
>Pretty fucking odd career choice
Ever heard of extracurricular, bud? Or volunteer work? You can do more than just your job, although you don't have to.

>His website used to be titled "Vegan Research Institute
Citation needed.

>a nonprofit charity that runs the site that he also owns
You can sell things that still go to charity. Ever heard of a fucking fundraiser before?

>>41332823
You don't think it's off he's laundering his charity donations back to a site he owns? You just come off as so gullible so many times in this thread.

>>41332823
>Jew thinks anyone'll believe his Jewish lies anymore

>>41332823
>Citation needed.
4chan thinks the link is spam but google "michael greger vegan research institute" and the business listing is the first result.

>You can sell things that still go to charity.
You're being intentionally obtuse at this point. What's the difference between selling my book and paying for my website and selling my book so my nonprofit can pay for my website? Tax breaks, probably.


This man compared eating eggs to smoking five cigarettes a day. He's a quack.

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>>41332823

okay lets steer the conversation to other hippy shit...do you guys think CBD has health benefits?

>>41332882
>CBD

Don't do drugs. I'm the vegan guy. Just don't do them, they're bad and sap you of your masculine energy.

>>41332897
Hahahaha I hope this is a troll.

>>41332926
It's not.

>>41332897

what about JUST CBD?

>>41332931
>JUST CBD
>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Does+CBD+have+health+benefits

>>41332599
>>41332486
Reminder that Steve Jobs was an og vegan since the early 80s and died of colon cancer.

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>>41332724
>(cont.)
>>41332160
>So eat chicken then
The rest of meats just fine too
>You're either being disingenuous or ignorant.
He's being both
>>41332237
>because even with all its deficiencies veganism is still better than the average american diet.
That comparison only works with unhealthy people who eat the SAD. Compare it to Healthy/fit people's diets that include animal products and it doesn't stack up at all.
>>41332260
You're the only one who's retarded if you belive any of that. Go research literally the majority of human history that proves you wrong
>>41332279
Because you want to nutride your pseudoscientific memes
>>41332293
Yes. There is.
>inb4 muh convinience and tastebuds
How about science that blows you out
>>41332361
Again, just because you want to be up your own ass about meme bullshit doesn't mean anyone with a brain has to be
>>41332414
Then you have no idea what you're talking about
>>41332477
>Either way, generally speaking vegans have lower BMIs than meat eaters and have less health problems.
Even more memes
>>41332516
Even if that is, he's righter than you
>>41332579
>Your fear mongering is weak.
Your pseudoscience is weak
>>41332599
>I just don't ever wanna die and want to live long enough to become a Robosapien
Buying into memes isn't going to get you any closer, Also pic and link related are the closest humanity is reasonably going to get. especially since pic related happened already in a way throughout humanities history. Borg-ing ourselves(mechanical transhumanism) and playing Tetris with genes (genetic engineering) still have a long way to go as well as problems and risks. A more /fit/, human, and seeing what we can do with what we already have could do the job and can especially realistically be done now. Especially regular people just plain currently getting fitter.
>http://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/respect-threads/48059-joseph-newton-respect-thread
>(cont.)

>>41332954
Single data point in a sea of data points. Like I said, obviously genetics matter, vegans can definitely still get cancer, but their risk is much lower.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048091/

>>41332930
U HAVE NO MASCULINE ENERGY VEGAN FAG. You're such a ninny ass prude it's unbelievable, do you actually enjoy the life you lead? Living in constant fear of every little thing

>>41332986
Hahaha when did I say I was living in constant fear of every little thing? And yes, I do enjoy the life I lead!

>>41330763
>Eating meat is unnecessary
Vegan diets are not healthy and require external supplements during pregnancy to make up for the deficiencies of the diet.

>>41332964
>Although plant-based diets including vegetarian and vegan diets are generally considered to be cancer protective, surprisingly very few studies have directly addressed this question

>The direct and indirect evidence taken together suggests that vegetarian diets are a useful strategy for cancer prevention.

Grasping at straws.

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>>41332957
>(cont.)
>>41332599
Evolution is also still ongoing.
>>41332714
You know fuck all about what you're talking about x100
>>41332758
>You're clearly not smart enough to engage in an actual debate when you only link biased blogs as evidence for your claims.
>This level of projection
You ignore properly researched science and facts, as well as the near entirety of the human historical record; because facts hurt your feelings about your meme bullshit. You and your ilk are the only ones here not smart enough to debate.
>>41332954
Steve Jobs falling for pseudoscientific bullshit and bad science means nothing

>>41332779
Who is this and where do i see those titties get fucked

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>>41332995
If you're afraid of weed and meat I can only imagine the other basket of anxiety you carry in your slow little head.

>>41330763
Your existance is unnecessary not unnatural.

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>>41333086
This is funny coming from the guy who thinks the Jews are out to get him and veganism is one giant conspiracy to dismantle Western Civilization. But I'm the scared little vegan? Yeah, when you're done being a basement dweller and you actually get laid, maybe then you'll be able to rationally debate.

>>41333141
Nah I wasn't Jew guy. He was funny tho.

I'm not getting into it on this thread, but you'd have to retarded to think eating meat isn't natural. The problem for me is that it's unnecessary (I've made great gains as a vegan with just creatine supplements) and it just feels wrong to let an animal that can feel pain die just so I can have a better tasting meal.

>>41333062
>>41332779
Someone please have mercy

>>41333272
They don't feel pain when the death is so quick tho. Besides it's not like they weren't going to die anyway

>>41330324
Meat eating is a scavenger tactic the monkeys employ to gain nutrients and fat for childbirth. Doesn't btfo anything fag.

>>41330763
Eating vegetables is unnecessary, not unnatural

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>>41333006
>Only vitamin a vegan should be deficient in is B12
>The only way to get B12 naturally is untouched natural soil and spring water
>Not even the cows you eat can get vitamin B12 naturally, so they're given supplements
>You eat their meat, which is now laced with B12
>You say that vegans are unhealthy because they need supplements
wew lad

>>41330763
>Eating meat is unnecessary
Get off your computer now.

>>41332544
At least the mosquito lives a full live before it's crushed animals are packed together with no room to move pumped full of drugs and transported in trucks with no food or water for days until they're eventually bled out years of suffering vs an instant of suffering for an insect

i don't know what to tell you mean

it's been scientifically proven that eating animal products causes cancer and early death. keep eating it if you want

>>41333474
It's not like you aren't going to die at some point bro, so let me kill you.

>>41333555
Meat would be necessary if it contained a nutrient that no vegetables did. B12 is not naturally found in meat. Cows are fed B12 supplements, making them fortified with B12, like almond milk.
>>41333098
>existAnce
Ok
>>41333006 see above
>>41333505
>Fiber and antioxidants are unnecessary
Please eat only animal products for a month, not even ketchup or pasta
>>41332724
>correct facts and science that hurt your feelings
>Technically it doesn't contain sources, just common sense backed by science, which you can look up; as well as the rest of what I posted which does have sources. Again, you should give them a read.
>The WHO and ADA in fact are memeing us
Lol kys man
And for good measure: >>41331281
chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
Sources:
Bryant, Josh. The M&F “GFH” Diet. Muscle and Fitness. Web. 3 Oct 2014. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/gain-mass/mf-gfh-diet?page=2

Croft, Henry. 100% British Beef: The Reg Park Story. Gym Talk. 24 Jun 2013. Web. 3 Oct 2014. http://www.gym-talk.com/the-reg-park-story/

Everson, Jeff. Incredible muscle mass: How Sergio Oliva and Victor Richards built theirs. Strength Old School. 8 Jan 2010. http://www.strength-oldschool.com/topic/108-incrediable-muscle-mass-how-sergio-oliva-and-victor-richards-built-their-physiques/

Gaudreau, Leo. The Saxon trio: what they ate and how they trained. Natural Strength. http://www.bobwhelan.com/history/saxontrio.html

Liederman, Earle. Bill "Peanuts" West. The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban. http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/09/bill-peanuts-west-earle-liederman.html

McCallum, John. Keys To Progress. Nevada City: IronMind, 1993.

Rheo Blair Protein- How to mix the protein drink. Iron Guru. http://www.ironguru.com/rheo-blair-protein-how-to-mix-the-protein-drink

Training Methods of Larry Scott. Iron Guru. http://www.ironguru.com/training-methods-of-larry-scott

AMAZING sources.
>>41332698
K;ys

>>41333062
>>41333307

some tumblr chick.

Eating meat is completely natural. The problem is just that the earth cant support 7 billion fuckers all eating meat. Being vegan strains the environment much less.

>>41330893
>I've heard it argued many times.
>yet I cannot find a good argument against it.
Not even vegan, but you only look pathetic when you say stuff like that and then don't back up your bullshit attitude with a proper argument.
>>41330845
Also, vegans have to admit, a vegan diet is a subpar diet. It is the healthiest option for your average joe, though, so I wouldn't argue against it in a government programme or something. However, supplementing vitamins B12, and D (C and E can also be supplemented, but it's rare to see a vegan with suboptimal vitamin C or E consumption), creatine and omega 3 can make it a great option.

>>41331833
lmao yeah brb I'm gonna get 3 of everything on the dollar menu at McDonalds choose for it to be healthy

Everyone's talking about eating meat not being natural for humans, or being bad for our health at the least.

But nobody tackled the REAL issue here - WHY THE FUCK DO WE SIT INSTEAD OF SQUATTING?

>>41334985
>Fiber and antioxidants are unnecessary
We can get them from supplements, just like vegans supplement their unhealthy diet.

>>41336127
I try not to

>>41330324
Fuck man why do you get so angry that some people dont eat meat? Stop being a spastic and chill out, get laid or something

>>41334985
>Meat would be necessary if it contained a nutrient that no vegetables did.
Meat isn't known as one of the most, if not the most nutritious foods you can eat for nothing. There are nutrients that are only found in meat, and in nutrient quantity and well as quality meat outdoes almost all other foods. Not to mention meat has complete proteins, and is hands down the best protein source
>https://authoritynutrition.com/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/5-muscle-nutrients-in-animal-foods/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/5-brain-nutrients-in-meat-fish-eggs/
>https://dailyhealthpost.com/4-brain-nutrients-found-only-in-meat-fish-and-eggs-not-plants/

>B12 is not naturally found in meat. Cows are fed B12 supplements, making them fortified with B12, like almond milk.
>Animal sources with a significant content of vitamin B12 (range among top 20 sources of 50 to 99µg per 100 grams)[23] include clams, organ meats (especially liver) from lamb, veal, beef, and turkey, fish eggs, mackerel, and crab meat.[2][3]
>Animals store vitamin B12 in liver and muscle and some pass the vitamin into their eggs and milk; meat, liver, eggs and milk are therefore sources of the vitamin for other animals, including people.[3][5][28] For humans, the bioavailability from eggs is less than 9%, compared to 40% to 60% from fish, fowl and meat.[29] Insects are a source of B12 for animals (including other insects and humans).[28][30]
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Foods
>The WHO and ADA in fact are memeing us
If they're willing to push this bullshit regardless if it's right, when it's rooted in pseudoscience, and when actual science and research says this retarded fad is bullshit, then yes they are. And if they're willing to keep downing the mems in the face of all evidence to the contrary it's even sadder.
>Lol kys man
You literally just proved my point that
>correct facts and science that hurt your feelings
You're so butthurt...
>(cont.)

>>41334985
>>41336450
>(cont.)
that you're not only ignoring facts and science to the contrary and refusing to read what anyone who knows what they're taking about posts; you're telling people to kill themselves.
>K;ys
And how ever many times you do it, it won't make you're fad pseudoscience any less bullshit
>AMAZING sources
They're perfectly fine and you're conveniently ignoring the rest of the sources I posted

>>41336477
>anyone who knows what they're taking about
Okay buddy. Post your face, body and PhD in medicine or nutrition with a timestamp and I will post myself with a timestamp eating a gyro. No bs. Temporary tripcode for good measure so you know it's me.
>They're perfectly fine
They are absolutely not
>you're conveniently ignoring the rest of the sources I posted
It is inconvenient to read through 50 articles when the first two are trolling at best and malicious misleading at worst
Post ONE link with a credible meta analysis, not a blog (that cites books from Amazon lmao) or something that proves without a shadow of a doubt that you can't get X or Y from a vegan diet. Tip: a population study that says "vegans were found deficient in X" doesn't count, BECAUSE I can just as easily post a population study that says "vegans are at lower risk of all cause mortality, obesity, diabetes, heart disease and cancer, compared to the standard American diet". It is poorly controlled, there are too many variables at play, the average American isn't as health conscious etc. You'll have to post a MECHANISTIC study. Do it, or be silenced forever.

>>41336649
>I can just as easily say vegans are at a lower risk of... Compared to the standard American diet
This is why everyone is bumping this thread to watch you get BTFO'd by a guy with actual sources and a brain
You're on /fit/ trying to argue that veggies are healthier than A HEALTHY BALANCED DIET by saying the only thing you can prove is that they're better than eating yourself to death on fast food and processed trash

>>41336713
I literally said that I could post it ant that it wouldn't count because it would be stupid.
>A guy with actual sources and a brain
Kek
First, don't talk about yourself at the third person, it's cringey
Second, stop shilling your shitty blog
Third, none of the shit posted here >>41334985 count as sources
Last, blow me. The fuck out I mean, post your big bad source.

>>41330324
>chimps eat meat
>vegans btfo

god why meat eaters are so stupid? also stop making appeal to nature fallacy. it doesn't mean shit if it's natural or not as long as you can be healthy on a vegan diet, which you can be.

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>>41336757
>I could post my only point but it would sound stupid
That's what I just said
Also le samefag fallacy and le shill meme
Are you even replying to me? I said we're all laughing at you for not having any sources and your reply is "WHERE YOUR SOURCE THE OTHERS NO COUNT"

>>41336805
>I don't know the difference between POPULATION and MECHANISTIC studies
>I don't know what statistical significance and sample size means
>I don't know the difference between a university and strength coaches
>I don't own a smartphone but I own a PC with paint
Sad.

>>41336917
>Lowered to projecting this hard
Can't hear your over my lack of of a shit diet bud

>>41334426
>Implying animal life is anywhere near equal to human life

>>41334985
>Cows are fed B12 supposed
Hahahaha lmao dude you're gonna have to get better b8 than that.
>>41335738
It doesn't tho if everyone we're to be vegan their wouldn't be enough arable land to raise all the calorically light veggies to feed everyone. Plants take many more acres to raise than meat.

>>41336422
They are evangelical in their ideology and must be challenged every day.

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Why are meat-eaters still so salty about this if they're not wrong?
Humans don't "need" to eat meat. In fact, not eating meat makes you marginally less of a shittier person to the environment, as well as other living creatures (though it doesn't eradicate all the issues, as a lot of things most people in the common world use are made from animal byproducts or environmentally counterproductive methods). There are also ways to keep your health optimal without meat consumption, especially with all the less-than-stellar processes that meat goes through in factories that drain it of most of its potential nutritional value.
If you eat meat, though, that's your decision in the end. What I don't understand is why meatfags are so insecure about it that they need to turn things into a full-scale war whenever they even read the words "vegetarian" or "vegan".
Maybe it's because they secretly understand that they have no willpower and are trying to rationalize everything, but that's just a hunch.

>>41336771
It's just a flashy thing to say to get the discord going. If I didn't post something provocative it would get 0 bumps.

>>41337172
Nah op here, started the thread because I genuinely enjoy riling vegans, also seeing their bs arguments here helps me shut them down irl. Good times all around.

>>41337132
>dude you're gonna have to get better b8 than that.
http://eerainuh.com/supplementation-of-vitamin-b12-in-cattle-and-sheep-to-prevent-deficiency/
>It doesn't tho if everyone we're to be vegan their wouldn't be enough arable land to raise all the calorically light veggies to feed everyone. Plants take many more acres to raise than meat

>ABLOO ABLOO I AM RETARDED AND BELIEVE BEEF DOESN'T NEED FOOD THAT TAKES UP ACRES TO GROW
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/549
>While 56 million acres of U.S. land are producing hay for livestock, only 4 million acres are producing vegetables for human consumption.
—U.S. Department of Commerce, Census of Agriculture

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>>41337132
>>41336713
>trying to argue veggies are healthier than A HEALTHY BALANCED DIET
>if everyone we're to be vegan their wouldn't be enough arable land to raise all the calorically light veggies to feed everyone.

This argument is retarded, what are fruits? What are nuts? What are GRAINS AND LEGUMES? Also, in terms of obesity, it wouldn't be a bad thing for there to be less calorically dense foods considering the obesity epidemic in America. But do you think that vegans only eat fucking lettuce? Because that's retarded, I eat shitloads of grains and legumes (calorie dense), as well as fruits and vegetables, I just exclude dairy and meat. But the idea that we can't feed people because of land is dumb. Also, if you're concerned about land, you would care that animal agriculture uses so much land and destroys it too. Hell, we could use the grain we use to feed livestock to feed an estimated 800 million fucking people.

>http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat
>https://www.cast-science.org/file.cfm/media/products/digitalproducts/CAST_WaterLand_Issues_IP_50_final_w_6AC28B58B3918.pdf

>>41337263
>Implying you convert corn, soy, and hay as efficiently as livestock
>Implying *some* animals getting supps means meat would lack B12 without it
Bro are you yankin my chain or are you this dumb?

>>41337294
Both. He's already had replies listing things such as the huge variety of meat that is high in B12, he thinks he's trolling a group of people that are laughing at his trolling

>>41337294
>Implying you convert corn, soy, and hay as efficiently as livestock
I must be really fucking stupid. What are you even talking about? Convert to what?

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>>41337280
See
>>41337294
Humans are less efficient at turning plants into gains. You would need much more land.

>>41337317
Gainz bro. Usable energy. Humans eating a bunch of corn and soy just makes us fat. Even our muscles would have marbled fat throughout. Lol why do you think we feed it to livestock?

>>41337320
>Pigs

Yeah, there's cows, chickens, AND pigs, as well as turkeys. There are plenty more livestock than just pigs, and yes, it takes a shitload of resources to feed and grow them.

>>41330763
>Eating meat is unnecessary, not unnatural
So is working out but yet here we all are

>>41337424
Working out doesn't cause the suffering and death of billions of sentient beings

>>41337198
try working out your brain muscle for once faggot

>>41337469
You're forgetting about all the gains goblins that can't feed their families everytime you don't skip gym day

>>41337320
>Humans are less efficient at turning plants into gains.
Your picture says that large pigs are less efficient than small pigs, not that humans are less efficient than pigs
Also, here is a source that says the opposite
http://www.economist.com/blogs/feastandfamine/2013/12/livestock (chopped up because char limit)
>Livestock is the biggest land user in the world. A third of the world’s crops are fed to animals, and a third of available fresh water. Meat is an inefficient source of calories. It accounts for 17% of global calorific intake, but uses twice that amount of land, water and feed.
Livestock accounts for between 8% and 18% of GHG. A fifth of all the world’s pasture has been degraded by overgrazing. Livestock uses water inefficiently: 15,000 litres water for a kilo of beef but only 1,250 litres for a kilo of maize or wheat. animals form diseases that affect humans
worldwide meat consumption will double by 2050.
Chickens and pigs convert grain into meat at rates of two or three to one (ie, it takes 2kg of feed to produce 1kg of chicken). The ratio for lamb is between four and over six to one and that for beef starts at five to one and goes as high as 20 to one. greenhouse gases of a kilo of protein: 3.7kg for chicken; 24kg for pork; up to 1,000kg for cattle. The lower ratios for chicken and pigs because they are kept in factory farms.
five times as much feed to produce protein in the form of meat than in milk
A cow in America or Europe will need to eat between 75kg and 300kg of hay for each kilo of protein. In Africa, 500kg or more. In Ethiopia, Sudan and Somalia the figure is 2,000kg, because the land is poor. Cattle on dry rangelands produce 100 times as much GHG as in America or Europe for the same protein. Cattle account for 77% of GHG by livestock for 59m tonnes of beef each year. Pork and poultry produce 10% of the greenhouse gases, but 215m tonnes of meat.
>Lol why do you think we feed it to livestock?
Because we are dumb.

>>41330796
Yes, many vegans do argue what OP said. Don't post as if you know what you're talking about when you haven't even been here for a year and when you haven't even seen any vegan threads.

>>41337527
Strawman, some vegans are stupid. That doesn't mean you need to eat meat

Rippetoe advocates GOMAD, which is stupid. That doesn't stop you from drinking 1 glass every morning

>>41337469
>Suffering
Try again. The vast majority live in perfect comfort the vast majority of their lives
>Implying death or killing animals is inherently bad
There is no moral grounds for this argument.
>>41337343
Chickens are even more efficient. Sheep and goat operations are pretty marginal compared to the rest of the livestock industry and are 100% pasture based so unless you get on your hands and knees and start eating grass you aren't gonna eat what they eat.

>>41337527
>Implying rippletits isn't right
I drink 4-5 pints of milk at least a day for 10 years. No gyno just gains. In highschool I squatted 350lbs at 189 lbs and could run a 40 dash sub 5 seconds. Yah bish ass vegan I bet you couldn't even perform as well as my 16 year old self.

>>41337566
>The vast majority live in perfect comfort the vast majority of their lives
No they don't.
>>Implying death or killing animals is inherently bad
>There is no moral grounds for this argument
Because that wasn't my argument. My argument was that their death for the specific purpose of being your food is wrong and uncessessary, not their death in itself. Of course that's also debateable but I think we can agree that they are being enslaved for a specific purpose, in which case it is easy to see the moral quandry some might have, even if you don't.

>>41337611
Kek

What a shit thread.

>>41337526
Are you actually implying you can achieve a rate of gain of over a pound per day on less than 5 pounds of feed? Makes since why vegans are so huge... Oh wait.

>>41337632
Hahahaha yeah bud all these animals achieve insane amounts of rate of gain in the midst of incredible discomfort. TOP KEK DUDE. Do you even think before you post? Or do you just watch a couple PETA videos and decide that's how everything works all the time?

>>41337611
I tagged the wrong post,
>>41337556

>>41337645
>Comes to 4chan
>Expects something other than whole threads dedicated to shit posting.

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>>41337684
>all these animals achieve insane amounts of rate of gain in the midst of incredible discomfort
So did pic related.

It's almost like if you feed something, it will accrue mass regardless of it's mobility or living conditions

>Think before you post
Words to live by anon, try it next time

>>41337839
>Bed sores ≠ torture
Do you actually believe that couch bound ham planet has ever experienced true suffering? I gotta bridge in Brooklyn for sale bruh.

>this thread
Anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence everywhere.

>>41336713
+1

sick and tired of these vegans and their pseudo-science. And when that fails they always default to emotional manipulation... you murderer.

>>41330664
It may work with raw chicken

>>41337938
It's not inherently invalid. Evidence isn't an empirical ranking either. Different types fir different arguments. Something like diet has no one right answer for all individuals so anecdotes get more weight in these arguments than say an argument about the number of traffic citations given in a particular intersection.