behind the neck press

>>41315989
but why? same muscles used on regular ohp but with lot less stress on rotators, its the same thing with behind the neck lat pull down, its doing the same thing on the same muscles, but with more stress on some joints

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>>41316042

daily reminder that baselessly posting something over and over doesn't make it true

>>41316070
Behind the neck press is what I see almost every pleb do though
It's a retarded move and you're retarded for shilling it

>>41315989
why the fuck is arnold here using the suicide grip, as well as not angling his wrists correctly to the bar?

everything I thought I knew about my hero is a lie

>>41315989
Post a picture of your massive delts

if you don't have massive delts I'm not taking your advice about delts

I use it as an accessory, keep it light, keep it slow, and if it hurts at all stop for the day. I press over 1pl8 and still only do just the bar BTNP

>>41316173
arnie is a noob

Me under the bar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC15Dgw4Ee4

>>41316042
it works lateral delts not front

>>41316042
Behind the neck press is only dangerous for your shoulders if you already have problems with your shoulders. If they're healthy, you're perfectly fine, as long as you don't be a retard with the form.

>>41316175
He did post a picture of Arnie doing them.

>>41316173
Because Arnie was lifting in the time before then internet was mainstream so you couldn't ask for advice or people couldn't post on the Malaysian basket weaving forum to get help

Behind the neck press sucks
But only if your shoulders suck

Here's a conundrum

>Behind the neck standing press

or

>Behind the neck seated press

Discuss

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>>41315989

There's probably a smidgeon of truth in there. Doing lots of OHP has gotten me to a PR of 80kg, but my shoulders look puny, especially when compared to guys who struggle with1pl8 for reps but do lots of lateral delt work.

Pic related feels much better than BNP though, and is perfect for accessory/hypertrophy work.

>>41316173
>suicide grip

Look at how much weight is on that bar you silly fuck.

>>41316173
I use suicide grip for all pushing barbell lifts. No reason not to unless you're a mongoloid.

>>41316772

I've used that for OHP and low bar squat (if that counts) for a long time, but it has recently started to cause me this weird nerve pain that starts off from the shoulder and then works out up to the forearm. It got so bad that I couldn't bench or press the day following heavy squats because the pain got really disorienting. Dunno what exactly causes it, but I've switched to regular grip and the pain has been even at it's worst much more manageable.

Safety wise monkey grip on OHP or BNP is very safe, as it's very easy to dump the bar without it landing on you.

>>41316442
>>41316341
post yfw arnie is a dyel

>>41316772
>>41316734
How in the fuck does suicide grip help you with weight? Maybe if you have to threaten your safety in order to put the weight up, you aren't strong enough for that weight yet. just a thought bois

>>41316173
>>41316924
wrists cocked back to get the bar more backward without having to force elbows as far back.
at BTN-press weights, your wrists should easily be able to handle this.
klokov can even press 160kg+ like this, because he doesn't have piss weak wrists.

thumbless grip to allow a bit of supination of the wrist, which is less stressful on the wrist and shoulder.
completely safe for overhead pressing, as it's very easy to dump the bar if something goes wrong.

>>41316042
>Works the same muscles

You feelin alright, bud?

The medial and anterior faces of the deltoid are different. You know that.

>>41315989
it only makes sense as push press, because then the weight moves inertly through the part where it'd put unnecessary strain on the rotator cuffs and allows to use bigger weight when the delts actually do the effective work.

>>41317004

>completely safe for overhead pressing, as it's very easy to dump the bar if something goes wrong.

Precisely, much much easier to bail out in case of a catastrophic failure than, say, in an average failed snatch or jerk. All you have to do is throw the bar in front of you.

>>41316173
Elbows forward on the BTNP is pretty fuckin handy if you're going to be doing 3+ times a week with any volume.


I've done both ways, and elbows forward takes a lot of stress off the shoulder. Like, my shoulder pain (during exercise) ceased to be when I made that change.

There isn't much literature on this lift (the blog of The Tight Tan Slacks of Dezso Ban has some info on it), and consistent info on form is basically non-existent. I watched videos of people that did the lift with heavy weight. A consistent cue I saw is how Kolokov would do a deep thoracic extension and drive his elbows forward while pressing off with it. I mimicked this and found instant relief (I had been doing BTNP 5 days a week for two weeks before any soreness manifested). That's how I stumbled onto it

>>41317062
he's right though, the front and lateral delt are used only very slightly more because you externally rotate your shoulders more as you do a BTN press.

in the Arnold picture, notice how the front delts are still best in line to contract and move the weight up.
in his position contracting only the lateral delts 100% would bring his elbows back without moving the weight up much.

EMG research confirms this.
look it up.

>>41317319
EMG research also shows that BTNP hits the medial face significantly more than OHP.


Pick your research, I guess. Anyone that has done BTNP and OHP can speak from experience and tell you that the latter definitely works the medial better

>>41317481
Could you link me those studies then?
The EMG studies I've seen only show a very minor difference.
They also show that both front and lateral delt activity increase, so the front:lateral delt activity ratio doesn't even change.
I think that's important to note to.

I have done BTNP and OHP and can tell from personal experience that I don't feel the lateral delt worked more on BTNP.
I do notice the lateral delt working more if I don't use a narrow grip on OHP and really focus on getting my upper back involved.

>>41317607
Tbqh, I tried to find the research to include in my last post but couldn't locate the article.

I personally use wide grip OHP right now (I noticed it hits the lateral head better than narrow grip OHP) and finish off with a few high rep BTNP sets.
What do you think about wide grip OHP actually having a higher maximum potential? I did better with narrow grip OhP for a while, but wide grip feels much more natural and powerful now

>>41317679
oh, I think that it doesn't really matter if you do OHP or BTNP, or what grip you use.
I think it's best to just use whatever works best for you by trying out OHP/BTNP and varying grip width, elbow position, etc.
Some exercise variety is also good to avoid overuse injuries.
Besides, you can train lateral delts well with (landmine) lateral raises, upright rows, facepulls, etc.

Most people are strongest with a grip just outside of shoulderwidth, or a little narrower or wider.
https://youtu.be/WnJd42b3EfI?t=43

I started out with a fairly narrow grip on OHP, then widened my grip a bit to try to get more lateral delt involvement, but lately I've narrowed it a bit such that I grip it just outside of shoulder width.
As I've had quite a bit of issues with my shoulders, my main focus is injury prevention (and thus upper back involvement).

Pretty good video on OHP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0jN04L32so

This stupid thread made me try btn press today

It felt really nice but i cant comment on gains

Definity will use as accessory to ohp

>>41317836
I started at shoulder width, switched to super narrow, and now I'm pressing wide-probably an inch or two outside of shoulders. On BTNP I go snatch grip.


Lots of people are preaching super narrow grip, but I find you hit a wall fast and your elbows have to flare like crazy

>>41317893
Ah, yes, Klokov does snatch grip BTN presses too, although his mobility and stability is superb.

I think that the rotation of the shoulders is one of the most overlooked tips for a good OHP.
People often try to keep the elbows infront, while they shouldn't.
Yury Belkin shows well how it should be done here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BHcXaxtjLTT/?taken-by=belkin_one_power
Notice how his elbows start infront, but go back and to the side smoothly throughout the lift.

>>41315989
This is why you shouldn't listen to /fit/. You guys are fucking dumb.

>>41315989
I have always do BNP as my first gym didnt have the machine for shoulder

>>41317940
The people that tell you to do narrow grip say to not rotate shoulders much, but that means you're going to have to push them out.


I had never watched gokuflex until that video. That mirrors a lot of my own experiences with the press. I'll have to check out more of his stuff.


You seem to know a lot about lifting. What do you think of barbell hyperextensions or doing barbell rows on the hyperextension machine

>>41318119
I've never seen people do rows on the hyperextension machine, so I haven't really thought about that.
Seems easier to just do them bent-over, feet on the floor.
But I don't see anything particularly wrong with them either.

I don't do them myself, but barbell hyperextensions can be a good exercise for the back (mostly spinal erectors), glutes, and hamstrings.
Klokov seems to like them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuHJYKUapZw

>>41316394
>it's only dangerous if you do it wrong
I'm so sick of this shit advice on this board. It's empty words. Driving 120 mph on a country road is only dangerous if you do it wrong, too. Jfc.

>>41317062
>criticize somebody's knowledge of deltoids
>"""""medial""""" delt
Well that's embarrassing.

>>41316428
as a bodybuilder arnold wasn't particularly known for his delts

many bodybuilders with better delts who don't do bnp