AHAHAHAAHAAH!!!!!

>>41279516
> AHAHAHAAHAAH!!!!
You might want to see a therapist buddy.

Is this bait? The dude goes over his reasoning and never denies CICO. He just argues that it's not as simple due to bodily physiology, which is factually accurate and backed up by evidence from studies and research.

You can reverse Type 2 diabetes. This isn't news. Unless you've been on diabetic medications for years and your insulin sensitivity gets fucked up.
(Not medical student)

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>>41279647
>no argument

>>41279675
>never denies CICO

Yes, he fucking does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5o0a4p_3U

>>41279724
>(Not medical student)
Oh, really?

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Type 1 diabetic here. The quickest way to spot a fad bullshit diet, product or marketing campaign is that they don't specify which type of diabetes or they claim the effects of something else.

In this case the claim is that no food is the same as no carbs. Keep in mind that ketofags use this same demented logic to say keto reverses type 2 diabetes.

Good diet and good fitness fix all sorts of symptoms and problems. Claiming any more or less is bullshit.

As always, follow the money. Fung is as full of shit as the next guy.

If you want to reverse type 2 diabetes then eat healthily and be more active.
If you want to lose weight eat less and be more active.

However you go about that is your own prerogative.

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>>41279516

CICO doesn't account for the speed at which your blood sugar has to be dealt with by your pathetic shriveled pancreas.

You could consume only half your daily calories in the form of coca-cola and give yourself diabetes pretty easily. Problem is most people have no idea pasta, rice and bread are to all intents and purposes just sugar - hell orange juice remains marketed as, and perceived as, a health drink.

I'm actually a med student studying for my finals right now and this is all extracurricular knowledge - we're still taught it's an irreversible chronic condition and patients are continuously informed its a sliding slope from diagnosis to untimely death.

The medications tackle the issue from precisely the wrong side - overcoming the insulin insensitivity by supplementing with more, thus continuously tightening the ratchet until you lose a leg. People complain about doctors handing out pills but realistically - that's what they want, and it's what we both want because change is hard and takes time.

>>41279880 makes the error of saying "eat healthy" - fruit and starchy vegetables are not healthy within this context - the perception of healthy food is incorrect (it's incorrect generally, but mainly within this context) and continues to damage patients.

I added a picture I just scavenged off google that's just pummeling the patient with carbs and sugar all day, albeit at a slight caloric reduction, and it's just not going to do anything for their insulin resistance - though it will provide a diet that is easier to overcome with medications or injections and - as I suggested - is the precise opposite of the correct approach.

To top it all off, if I gave this as an answer in an exam I'd fail, because it hasn't been officially advocated by supervising medical bodies yet.


TL:DR I'm bored studying and thought I'd write a bit about the complete mismanagement of diabetes Type 2.

>>41280515
Not op but thanks

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>>41280515
>which your blood sugar has to be dealt with by your pathetic shriveled pancreas.
You're thinking of type 2

>You could consume only half your daily calories in the form of coca-cola and give yourself diabetes pretty easily.
False, most types of diabetes are generally considered to be a function of fat and lack of fat intake, not carbs or sugars.

>Problem is most people have no idea pasta, rice and bread are to all intents and purposes just sugar
Because they aren't, though some may contain quantities of similar sugars.

>I'm actually a med student studying for my finals right now
It frightens me that you might pass.

>The medications tackle the issue from precisely the wrong side - overcoming the insulin insensitivity by supplementing with more, thus continuously tightening the ratchet until you lose a leg.
Again, you're thinking about Type 2. Also losing a leg is an association of gangrene due to poor circulation, in the context of diabetes that's the result of fluctuating blood sugars because of poor control, often and not necessarily poor diet

>fruit and starchy vegetables are not healthy within this context
False, any varied diet can be healthy, especially true for diabetics who are commonly deficient in a handful of vitamins and minerals.

> added a picture I just scavenged off google that's just pummeling the patient with carbs and sugar all day, albeit at a slight caloric reduction, and it's just not going to do anything for their insulin resistance
It's not intended to. It's the standard recommended diet for a reason and while as a type 1 I routinely run into endos and nutritionists who are scared of low carb diets, I'm by no means resentful of them for trying to offer what works when controlled. Conversely you're recommending the extreme opposite for completely made up nonsensical reasons

The only thing you're right about is that diabetes is often mismanaged.

Either way, I hope you fail your exam because medicine is fucked enough already

>>41279675
Damn well almost does deny CICO. He calls is Calorie Restriction As Primary, or CRAP. Seriously. Read his article on muscle loss. He is a quack. I got Cahill's book on human starvation from the university library. He says the muscle loss from fasting for a week can be overcome by eating five jumbo shrimp. I shit you not.

>>41279816
>>41281027
No he doesn't. Please watch the videos before you critique them, or be educated enough to understand them. He repeatedly says in these videos that it's not that he's denying CICO, but that CICO is not static. Your body metabolism fluctuates through regulation of T3 and T4 hormones (which are hormones that regulate cellular metabolism and glucose oxidation rate) and hormones like insulin directly affect the usage of the calories you eat.

Again, if you have no education, you're only listening to the parts where /fit/ uses broscience and think you know things. I'll give you a TLDR on what he's saying. He cites a multitude of sources that correlate insulin with weight gain (as is the well known functions: transfer of blood glucose to cells and storage as triglyceride) to weight gain, even WITH a caloric deficit. Notice that one of insulin's functions is to bring glucose into the cell, because since it is a water soluble carbohydrate, it needs a special protein to bring it into the cells which is triggered by insulin. However, when downregulation of the insulin receptors on cells occurs due to excessive insulin (a symptom of diabetes/prediabetes), the only other place it can go is to be converted to triglyceride, or fat. That's why diabetic or prediabetic patients often experience weight gain. Because of the inability for the glucose to get into cells, the sole job of insulin will essentially just to be store fat. So even if you're not eating much, your cells can't actively GET those nutrients, and instead of it going to your cells, it's just going to your adipose, or fat, cells. His postulated solution is to fast to reduce blood insulin, increase blood glucagon, and then increase cell insulin sensitivity. This will cause a proportionately lower amount of blood glucose to be converted to fat and more to be brought into cells.

>>41279516
Intermittent fasting causes you to feel more satiated after a modestly sized meal, thus you consume less calories, and also you re-sensitize your insulin receptors.

>>41279816
>>41281027
>>41282048 (cont.)
Furthermore, he isn't recommending IF for bodybuilders. He's recommending it for overweight, obese, prediabetic, and diabetic patients. He mentioned this as well in another video dedicated to the benefits of fasting. Gluconeogenesis, if you can infer from the name, is the process of GENerating NEO GLUCose. Your body has two main metabolic pathways for this: triglyceride (fat) and amino acids (muscle). Your body will generally prioritize the generation of glucose from fat/triglyceride because muscle is often more integral and fat is meant to be stored energy. However, as your body fat percentage decreases, your body prioritizes the fat more and more simply because adipose tissue has important hormonal functions as well is necessary for some organ function. So as you decrease in bodyfat percentage, the body will eventually use muscle more proactively. This is a point he makes as well. If you're at a FFMI of 22 and have 10% BF, he wouldn't necessarily recommend IF. But for those who have readily available fat, the story is completely different because the body wouldn't rely on muscle.


Also, the jumbo shrimp thing was just about the minimal requirement of protein for you not to lose muscle. Again, unrelated. His method of IF is not intended for bodybuilding. It's intended for generally overweight people.

>>41282048
>>41282141
t. Jason Fung

>>41282176
I'm not Jason Fung you fuckers. Jason Fung is obviously dead and there's no way I could even live that long.

>>41280878
>Because they aren't, though some may contain quantities of similar sugars.
I think the point is that when the body is done breaking them down they end up as glucose, which is a sugar. Not that they are literally made out of cane sugar or whatever.

>>41279516

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21656330

http://www.cell.com/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7

Here are the abstracts to two papers. One was a study in mice, one a small scale study in humans. Both showed that Type 2 Diabetes can be reversed by fasting. Rebut them and please show your work.

>>41279816
he wasn't trying to argue, he was just saying that you need help anon

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CICO is bullshit, OP. Deal with it. Its not as simple as thermodynamics, your body isn't a fucking dump. Its a very complex organism. Countless processes are taking place. Fuck you and fuck CICO. You'll never make it if you keep perpetuating this bullshit.

>CICO CICO CICO! Eat less lose weight eat more gain weight. Fat people just need to put down the fork!

Ya no shit, any 3rd grader can understand the concept of 1-1=0. What do you think you're a fucking genius because you can spell thermodynamics? There is a lot more that goes into it. When we deny CICO, we're saying that CICO is shit on its own. Not all calories are the same. Every macro has a different hormonal response on the digestive system.

Dr. Fung is blowing your dumb asses out of the water. Better jump on the fucking band-wagon now and save face because you'll come around sooner or later. Fucking uneducated dogmatic faggot.

>twinkie study
>thermodynamics
>read the sticky

Fucking use your brains.