You have 30 seconds to justify eating meat

>>41008520
it's delicious

top of the food chain

Delicious protein

>>41008525
so are veggies, without the murdering part

Its nutritious and while yes we are originally frugivores, we have evolved to having mean in our diets without problems

>>41008520
I like it

>>41008532
so why are you visiting /fit/?
/lit/ is also a board without exercising part

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>>41008528
That arguement is retarded

T. Avid meateater

>>41008532
that's why I eat both before murdering your mom's pussy

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>>41008545
to make sure the gullible newbies realize that you do not need meat to be strong and big

>>41008557
>getting infopics from Facebook

fucking pleb confirmed

>>41008564
You've already been told, that people eat meat because it's tasty.

I kicked a vegan's teeth in outside a bar once. I hope he liked his veggies blended

>>41008568
I post shit privately to archive them because phonefag

>>41008585
2edgy3me

>>41008589
don't know what the fuck that means. All I post from is a phone and I know I don't download any pics from FB bro

>>41008578
I find sex tasty too, that doesn't mean I should rape.

>>41008597
scrawny pale guy litreally had a vegan tattoo on his arm. My drunk friend called him a faggot and was trying to fight him. I stopped it and we drank some more then left. Dude followed us out talking shit, then for some reason he tries to go after me with his scrawny little vegan arms, my friend blind sides him, then I kick him in the fucking face while he's down. I could hear his teeth crack, then we just left him there. call it what you want but it was hilarious

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I am a solipsist and meat isn't real

>>41008616
or does it...

>>41008623
Ok yeah it was

>>41008616
It mean you should have sex, brah.

>>41008520
I cant be assed inconveniencing myself for a fucking cow

>>41008534
you dont consider ass cancer and heart disease problems?

>>41008623
it was also fiction wasnt it breh

I would kinda like to go vegan but let's be honest, you sacrifice health and aesthetics for it.

>>41008657
I don't give enough of a shit to try to convince you either way

I eat it to get proteins

>>41008520
>>41008532

I just love killing things

>>41008520

If god didn't want me to eat cows he wouldn't have made them out of hamburgers.

>>41008520
You have 30 seconds to justify why all meat substitutes are more expensive than actual meat despite being mostly wheat/soy protein

i would rip the lung of a lamb to get dat sweet high avaibility protein. also i eat whatever i like and dont give a fuck about some retarded random cucks and their delusional bullshit.

>>41008789
you can always get that protein from beans or protein powders, the latter is the cheapest source of all.

>>41008978
yeah if you like being a pussy

>>41008534
>we have evolved to having meat in our diets without problems
most of the top10 diseases people die from are related to eating animal products. that's not a problem, no?

>>41009042
>being so brainwashed by the animal industry to think that eating meat is manly

>>41008752
Don't fucking eat meat substitutes, they are shit for you. Eat whole foods, not processed garbage.

>>41009045
Who cares? humans live too long anyway and who's to say that will evem be a factor in the future. Ya know we have that things that makes us the dominant species on earth, our brains. And we are rapidly advancing in technology. Only retarded faggots care about other animals

This is what i hate about oher vegans they always try and push the animal welfare bullshit on people all the time, guess what trying to guilt people doesnt work it makes them defensive you need to explain the health benefits, thats how i got into it

>>41009063
>who cares?
>we will fix it later
>only retards care about animals
sounds like you have a turd for a brain

>>41009057
A vegan talking about being brainwashed. That's fucking laughable.

>>41009064
Try telling people that eggs and milk are harmful, they will think you're a delusional retard.

>>41009073
whatever breh. humans are fucking bad ass. We can almost do anything we fucking want and in the future will may just be immortal. We walk around smoking chemical filled sticks just for the fucking hell of it because we can. We're too awesome to ask if we should because we are an alpha species (for the most part) and we can do whatever the fuck we want despite what a bunch of cry baby bitch vegans protest about on the internet

>>41009092
milk is harmful even without peoples lactose intolerence and osteoporosis do some actual research

>>41008520

more bcaa density.

>>41008564

People on PEDs don't need to follow the rules the rest of us do.

>>41009120
I know, that's not what I said. Why would it be healthy to drink another species' breast milk?

I'm not vegan but I hardly ever eat meat. Study after study shows how unhealthy it is. A steak now and then sure, but regularly eating meat is like regularly drinking or regularly smoking. Also, most shitty cheap farmed meat is disgusting. Hard to say no to a nice rare steak sometimes though.

>>41009137
You can tell them the facts and leave them to it rather than spouting the same rhetoric of animals are killed for our food, everyone knows animals are killed for food and if they are an adult they probably also know theyre not given a luxury hotel and spa before being killed. What they probably dont know thanks to kellogs and the dairy industry is that the animal products are bad for them and their families

>>41008520
it's earies for me to reach my macros if I eat meat. Less time thinking about what to cook too.

>>41009074
who's benefiting from brainwashing me into a plant-based diet, apart from myself?
it's you who's laughable

>>41009099
none of what you wrote is alpha, it's just plain stupidity

>>41008520
Tastes good and I'd prefer to look like I lift, kill yourself.

>>41008626
shit brah you're a solipsist too? I thought I was the only one :^)

>>41008545
We don't need anymore shitposters goddamnit

>>41009183
hahaha you caring so much is stupidity. get a hobby loser

>>41009173
Well in my experience people are resistent to facts. If it was that "easy" that ethic/moral spouting wouldn't be that popular in the vegan agenda. People just react with "huh so it increases the risk for many major diseases, so what". Or they reference that the official position is never strictly against dairy, every official guidline allows milk in the diet and almost never mention anything negative about it.

>>41009227
>official guidlines
Follow the money.

>>41008520
It's one of the most nutritious if not the most nutritious food you can eat, veganism and vegetarianism are both based in pseudoscience and the demonization of animal proteins/fats are bad, búnk science supported by the most tenuous of links to supposed diseases and ill effects they cause; along with very poor correlation/causation arguments and are nothing but forced memes
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
>https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>https://authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
>>http://caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/
>http://www.saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>https://rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>https://deniseminger.com/the-china-study/
>>41008534
>and while yes we are originally frugivores
This is yet another meme
>>41008648
These are even more forced memes

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pic related; your average vegan lmao

fucking faggots. Genocide when?

>>41009227
in the uk milk alternatives are becoming much bigger as well as lactose free milk because of peoples allergies, so ive found it pretty easy to at least 'convert' people to trying these milk alternatives. Might be harder in the US because the dairy industry is heavily intertwined with politics but here its becoming more apparent that milk isnt good for you

>>41009251
And there's the habitant vegan/no-fap threads troll.

>>41008532
Veggies are bland, meat is inherently tasty

>>41009254
I genuinely don't know what this shirt is supposed to mean. Literally no idea what the "cheap meat" is.

>>41009251
lol linking to blogs nice facts m8

>>41009264
learn to cook you child

When you stop eating meat you become a leftist faggot. I am not into that

>>41009251
Ohh look, its the blog guy.

>>41009277
Vegetarianism has always been, historically, a conservative position.

>>41008520

I like to.

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>>41008520
Jesus says it's OK.

>tfw too poor to raise, kill, and butcher own animals for meat

>>41008520
red meat increases testosterone

the primitive humans were not fucking vegans you piece of shit hipsters

>>41009322
humans are supposed to be vegans though, our teeth's structure indicates that

we are not meant to eat meat

>>41009322
The primitive humans were merely trying to survive and would eat anything that provided any amount of calories, like a pig. The non primitive humans, the one who created civilisation, were effectively plant based

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>>41009339
life finds a way you dumb nigger

>>41009339
Well our dental structure does not suit eating sugary foods either.

So go sort out the corn lobby for us.

God says its ok. Most nutritious food on earth but oh no were not supposed to eat it !

>>41009351
>The non primitive humans, the one who created civilisation, were effectively plant based

What?

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>>41009401
They were farmers, dummy.
Pic related, its the Mayan maize god.

>>41009339
>implying our teeth structure has anything to do with it.

If you actually look at the evolution of humans and their diet it becomes pretty clear that we've been eating meat for at least the last 100,000 years.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that the switch from fruits to cooked meat is the reason for us actually becoming humans in the first place.

Our dentistry hasn't changed much because the switch to eating meat co-incided with our development of tool use. I.e. because we started to cut meat with tools and then cook it we had no need to develop carnivorous dentistry.

>>41009339
That's assuming we had to hunt down animals and kill them and eat them right there. Wild animals have sharp teeth because they have to rip the flesh. We are smart. We made tools to do that so we fucking do it. The teeth structure thing is the fucking dumbest thing I've ever heard of. It's been literally thousands of years, our earliest time on this planet, since we haven't had tools to harvest corpses of animals with. Of course our teeth aren't going to be evolved for ripping raw hard meat apart you fucking retard

>>41008532
>so are veggies, without the murdering part

Veggies are alive, anon. Just because they don't feel exactly like we do, doesn't justify their murder.

>>41009422
>Mayan
The sure built a strong and long lasting civilisation, didn't they?

Once again not one meat eater has been able to prove they possess the mental ability to apply logic and reason to an argument.

Fucking retards

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>>41009092
>>41009120
>>41009137
More memes
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/true-or-false-dairy-is-toxic-hormone.html
I also have my doubts to "milk=prostate cancer" entirely especially when in the article it says:
>Estrone and prostate cancer risk in men: As far as the estrone levels Maruyama et al. measured in their 2010 study are concerned it is very difficult to tell, whether or not the 26% increase in E2 levels is or isn't a problem.
>The estrone values in the Maruyama study are unrealistic. With a normal range of <68pg/ml the subjects in the Maruyama study would have elevated E1 levels to begin with, if the measurement was correct.
>difficult to tell
>unrealistic
and
>What remains to be seen, though, is whether future epidemiological evidence will support or refute the currently heralded hypothesis that dairy consumption increases prostate cancer risk and whether we will be able to identify more feasible explanations for this relations than those that are implicated by the results Maruyama et al. present in their 2010 study.
>>41009260
>>41009274
>>41009278
Oh look, more shitposters who are to lazy to do their own research or read

>>41009339
That just means we weren't mean to eat raw meat fresh from a dead animal dummy.

>>41009459
hahah butthurt vegan

>>41009459
Come on then pal, enlighten us all as to why humans shouldn't eat meat and we should all be vegans. Dazzle us with your mental ability and logic

>>41009455
Yup, thousands of years of civilisation while Europeans were dwelling in mudhuts. Shame that up 95% of them were killed by infectious diseases when the Europeans arrived.

>>41009459
>This level of projection
The only people who aren't arguing logically or rationally are you and your lot. All the 'meat eaters' ITT are doing perfectly fine

>>41009499
Yeah. Being vegan gave them a weak ass immune system so the first foreign visitors got them sick and they all died like the vegan pussies they were. you are disproving your own argument dummy

>>41008520
>habit
>more options with less restrictions
>easy to hit KCAL / protein numbers daily
Also I don't have to take a bunch of vitamins while claiming to be getting them all from nature.
I think being a vegetarian would be doable though.

>>41008557
your argument is retardeter

>>41009521
>being this retard
Funny how the hunter gatherer Indians also died then. Its almost like it was a genetic susceptibility to infectious disease; probably due to the lack of animal domestication in the western hemisphere.

>>41009462
Now whos doing mental gymnastics to try and prove something retard

don't haveto

>>41009422
That doesn't mean anything. The Mayans were also practitioners of animal husbandry, fishing, and hunting and had corresponding deities for these practices.
What do you mean by "The non primitive humans, the one who created civilisation, were effectively plant based"? Because they weren't vegan in either principle or practice.

>>41009483
My main argument is that it's unnecessary to cause the suffering and death of other sentient beings in order to sustain myself. It is undisputable that a human being can thrive on a vegan diet.

Secondly Animal Agricultural has a huge impact in the environment and reducing consumption of animal products will have a positive effect on the environment.

Now you can counter with "hahah I don't care faggot", but that just proves to me you are mentally a child and we can end the conversation there

>>41008589

Lots of better ways to do that.

>>41009554
You, with this huge ass level of projection again

>>41008520
Because fuck you and fuck your stupid morals

>>41009580
I dont think you know what that word means :)

>>41008520
>I need to justify my nature

>>41009567
I never said they were vegans, I'm just pointing out the vast majority, and I mean over 90%, of there calories were from plant sources, like all agricultural civilisations. (except perhaps the ancient Norte Chico civilisation, interestingly.)

>>41008671
no u dont, rather the opposite

>>41008616
Except rape isn't socially accepted and more to the point is illegal, retard. Stupid comparison

>>41009598
>I dont think
Should've stopped right there because you sure don't

>>41009575
I don't necessarily disagree. I absolutely agree that the reduction of consumption of animal products would have a positive effect on the environment, and I think that in the modern era, those with the financial means to do so could (not should, however) thrive on a vegan diet.

The suffering and death of other sentient beings in order to sustain human life is something I find contentious. I think proving that animals possess meaningful sentience and regarding them as a moral agent is difficult, but were it to be proven then you would be right to make a moral argument that as moral agents, killing animals for food would be wrong. However, where the vast majority of animals bred today are bred for the singular purpose of eventually being used for meat or their products, I don't take issue with their being used so. If a cow is bred and raised with the singular purpose of being consumed as meat, I don't take issue with doing so.

I think that meat itself is something which has wrongly become a staple rather than a luxury. Humans are so removed from the process of rearing and slaughtering animals for meat that they no longer appreciate the signficance of the meat they consume, which is wrong. Personally, a far more persuasive argument from a vegan perspective would be whether or not someone is willing to be involved in the rearing and slaughter of animals for their meat. If you can't justify doing so yourself, then eating meat by extension is something you should have doubts about.

Also at least you didn't make all the moralising or pseudo-scientific arguments like humans' teeth etc. Those are bullshit and we both know it, if only because they do nothing to persuade someone to become a vegan or sympathise with their perspective.

>>41009274
Or I won't willingly inconvenience myself and instead choose to eat something that inherently tastes good?

>>41008671
Not really, if anything you will be healthier and aesthetics as always depend on what, how much you eat and how much you train. The little bit of test stimulation from meat is pretty negligible.

>>41009425
we are the only species that needs to brush their teeth on a daily basis so that they do not get rotten

that alone says a lot

we are not supposed to eat meat, period.

>>41009459
No, we actually do recognise all the health benefits a vegan diet gives you, we just fucking love meat so will continue to eat it

>>41009662
>inherently
Bad processed meat tastes like shit though.

>>41009667
You realise tooth decay is a factor that often kills animals in the wild, idiot?

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>>41009641
Just because something is socially accepted and legal doesn't make it ok. Look at slavery for example.

>>41009667
>we are not supposed to eat meat, period.
Yet somehow science proves this to be a bunch of bullshit

>>41009673
As does unprepared vegetables

>>41009670
That's fine, but I do question your sanity to indulge in such a destructive behaviour to yourself, the planet, and other living beings, just for some hedonistic pleasure.

>>41009575
>My main argument is that it's unnecessary to cause the suffering and death of other sentient beings in order to sustain myself.

You are wrong. Even if you kill nothing (which you won't as it's nearly impossible to not accidentally kill a few things over the course of your life) you still eat, still drink. If you eat and drink something else cannot and nature does you share your high morals. It will produce creatures who will compete with you for resources on some level, if they lose they will simply starve.

You are pointlessly trying to control nature and make the world what you want it to be. It will not work, nature will be what it is like it or not.

>Secondly Animal Agricultural has a huge impact in the environment and reducing consumption of animal products will have a positive effect on the environment.

Positive in that the pastures and hay fields will go wild? Or are you going to make the argument that land could be better used?

>>41009623
Where are you getting these figures, anon?

>>41009688
Fair point

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Meat is just so delicious. I wouldn't go vegan for a million dollars. RED MEAT NIRVANA

>>41009339
our teeth indicates that we are omnivores

that doesnt mean we are supposed to be vegan

>>41009701
Life isn't fair I guess, humans have it all

>>41008520
>if you don't eat meat you have to be a vegan

ITS CALLED VEGETARIAN RETARD

>>41008687
>>41008789

>what are lentils

>>41009660
>whether or not someone is willing to be involved in the rearing and slaughter of animals for their meat
I like this a lot too, people should at least witness a live slaughter of livestock and the conditions in factories that supply those cheap products. I think it would change the view of many people. If a farmer raises cows and pigs to later sell their meat it's fine but what the meat industry is doing can't really be ethically justified, it's plain disgusting.

I don't believe any sane person can watch those movies about some of their methods and not be appalled.

>>41009758
Realistically though the meat industry now is too big to be stopped, no?

>>41009771
The idea is to give money to the dairy/meat alternatives so the meat industry will have to scale down with a decrease of demand or open up alternatives

>>41009771
Yeah probably but I like wishful thinking.

>>41008520
cheap source of protein

>>41009758
>If a farmer raises cows and pigs to later sell their meat it's fine

...for fucks sake anon, where do you think the slaughterhouses get the animals they slaughter? They are trucked in from fucking farms you mong.

>>41009786
The majority of consumers aren't willing to do that though

>>41009758
See, I'm less convinced by them than I probably should for a few reasons. Firstly, its not in the interests of vegan groups to show you animals being slaughtered ethically or humanely, so naturally the videos you see of abbatoirs and slaughterhouses are likely to be extreme. Now, maybe these kind of things are likely commonplace, but that doesn't prevent skepticism based on those videos. Secondly, the slaughter of animals has become industrialised as with any other product. Whilst it doesn't make it any more palatable, expecting anything else is naive in my opinion. If you have 1000 cows to kill, you're not going to be able to make it dignified and calming for every single one, you have to apply industrialisation at some point in order to meet demand.

That being said, I absolutely think that in an ideal world, every man, woman, and child who wants to eat meat should be challenged with actually rearing or slaughtering an animal themselves. If you are unwilling to butcher an animal, why should you be entitled to eat its meat? I realise this establishes a double standard (it wouldn't be reasonable or rational to apply this standard to every product people consume) but when you're eating what was once a living, breathing animal (regardless of it being bred and reared for the sole purpose of slaughter) you ought to appreciate it.

>>41009707
If you look at the modern descendants of the ancient people who still follow the traditional diet, you tend to find the poor eat meat only on special occasions, even to this day. Some of these civilisations had cities huge populations even by today's standards. They were only sustainable through agriculture.

>>41009809
you dont need the majority every little helps, each person spends 10s of thousands if not 100s on meat and dairy throughout their lives. That money makes a big difference to smaller alternative companies

>>41009803
I mean "small" farms, the old family model where they have maybe a few dozen cows and pigs, not the industrial famrs with literally hundreds of thousands of animals.

Tastes fucking great

>>41009339
Do some research. Humans have teeth that are meant for both meat and vegetables. If we weren't meant to eat meat we wouldn't. It's that simple

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>>41008532
>murder
Never understood this whole meat is murder phrase

It's the quickest way to illustrate that someone is soapboxing with a slanted agenda and don't know what they're talking about. Basically it's the quickest way for someone to write off vegetarians/vegans, just makes no sense to me that they use that phrase/idea

I don't even have a problem with veganism/vegetarianism, just that idiotic concept

>>41009811
Yeah I'm not fully into the vegan ideology myself, I think it's perfectly fine to raise animals for the purpose of eating their meat. Just the scale has become absolutely ludicrous so I do try to "speak for them" even though I do eat meat and dairy from time to time.

>>41009836
>if they meet my disney fantasy of a farm it's ok

Just shut the fuck up, you know shit about ag.

My neighbors run a small farm, 100 head cow and calf operation. As do many others out here. What do you imagine they do with their steers (males)? They keep them for a year, ship them off to a feedlot, then into a processing plant.

Do you expect them to make a living doing all stages on their own? They can't, they would go broke because it's inefficient as fuck and trying to meet the food safety rules for packing would be quite literally impossible for them.

>>41008520
>cheap source of protein
>tastes good
>I really like eating it
>>41008557
>food chains don't exist and are ego-driven inventions by men
>sharks and fish can coexist

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>>41009811
>>41009886
To add to this- the way animals are killed in nature is routinely far, far more heinous and gruesome than slaughter practices.

All someone is illustrating with the "animal welfare and slaughter practices are bad" argument is that those need to be improved, not that it's inherently wrong

But then that's the rub- Any argument for vegan/vegetarian diets based on anything other than subjectivity is purely based on false logic

>>41009811
probably the most balanced opinion in the whole thread.
I don't know why American idealists so commonly fail to take a nuanced position. They have to be PRO or ANTI.

This solution is elegant : If you want to have a meat eating permit, you need to slaughter at least one animal of each meat group you want to eat, with your own hands and tools, and witness the subsequent agony (I guess, you could be trained for it so that the animal doesn't suffer and you don't get to see a botched execution that will scar you for life)

>>41009701
>Only get maybe 70-something years on this earth
>marginal benefits of extending that life span by a couple of years past 78 and giving yourself a self-satisfied pat on the back for being so "moral" are vastly outweighed by the marginal cost of having to give up doing something that brings you a great amount of pleasure for the rest of your life

>>41009934
>vegan/vegetarian diets based on anything other than subjectivity
Environmental and health reasons?

>>41009915
clearly shark and fish can coexist, otherwise sharks couldn't meet fish to consume...
But i see your point.

>>41009499
>while Europeans were dwelling in mudhuts
>this meme again
>Europe is the only place outside of the Americas and there were no other successful meat-eating civilisations before it

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>>41009949
>Environmental and health reasons?
No, the extrapolation here is that animals take up more space and energy to raise/breed/slaughter/process than vegetables. All you're concluding here is that we should 1. Eat less animals and vegetables or 2. Process meat by more environmentally sound means

>>41009906
I don't know shit? The meat I eat is from a small village with farms like this, I sometimes help with cutting the meat. It's the exception and rare as fuck but it can work. If meat wasn't expected to be cheap as fuck maybe there would be a little switch.

>>41009945
Your ignoring the fact that its not just the amount of the number of years you live, but the quality. I would rather live my last decades of my life free of preventable chronic disease.

>>41008623

Wow you are a cool guy

>>41009886
There's no sense in putting yourself on a cross, anon. I think you're sensible for realising that. I actually have quite a lot of sympathy and respect for vegans, or people like you who try to maintain a vegan diet. My issue with 'veganism' has always been that they don't make effective arguments. It baffles me that with a generation like millenials, who I think have proven their susceptibility to virtue signalling and moralising of issues, that they can't/ haven't made veganism more mainstream than it is. If you want people to stop eating meat that's fine, even respectable, but goddamn if you make people hate you and your cause then all you're doing is holding back your own cause.

>>41009906
I think the assumption that anon is making is similar to mine in that, the idea isn't to suddenly replace mass scale industrialised farming with small, 'micro' farms. It would be to change the way people view meat from an endlessly exploitable resource and product, to something that is valuable and appreciated for the hard work involved in its production. Sadly you're right about those sort of farms being unviable currently.

>>41009934
I think you're right. There's nothing inherently wrong with killing an animal bred for meat for its meat. Its like complaining about cutting down a planted forest specifically planted for paper or timber. But I think you're right to acknowledge the idea of these practices as needing improvement.

>>41009937
Going to have to disagree somewhat, in that I don't agree that a 'permit' would be necessary (or desirable). I'm not saying people should be forced, even in our hypothetical ideal world, to rear or slaughter an animal. I think the most desirable outcome is to make people appreciate meat for what it is more than they do now. If you can crack that, the rest sorts itself out really.
>t. broke Europoor university student

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>>41008520
My body can process it and my brain rewards me for doing it. Plus, I don't have to justify it since you can't do anything about it, faggot.

>>41008557
That pic is such feelsy bullshit.

>>41009986
Fucking right I am. You use sarcasm like a 13 year old girl btw

>>41008557
argument*

>>41009688
Where is slavery legal?

>>41009937
please be bait, this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard.

>>41010000
Nice quads and nice post, agreed.

>>41009339
our teeth structure also isn't designed to use a knife and fork

>>41009975
By its nature animal husbandry is always going to require exponentially more resources than simply growing plants, on a calorie for calorie basis.
Here is some non-subjective facts. Meat and dairy industry:
Creates a biohazard - swine flu, mad cows etc. Also antibiotic resistant superbugs.
Contributes to global warming.
Major contributor in our modern health crisis.
Leads to expanding land use, causing major deforestation
others i cant be bothered to name.

>>41009707
From his ass, like all vegans.

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>>41010061
>By its nature animal husbandry is always going to require exponentially more resources than simply growing plants, on a calorie for calorie basis.
Agreed, but the logic is still completely broken

If you want to campaign for veganism on purely ecological terms then I'm all for it but you cannot logically want to end meat eating as a result of that argument alone, it does not compute

Also as a side note literally every single one of the negatives you've listed for meat production are also true of industrialised vegetation


As a side note, I'm blown away by the generally rational nuanced argument taking place in this thread.

>>41008520
>being a broccoli cuck
K
Y
S

>>41010098
>meat production are also true of industrialised vegetation
The point is you need far less "industrialised vegetation" To feed everyone if you are not feeding to animals first. Also, plants do not create methane or cause a biohazard.

>>41009707
Not him but come on, it's common knowledge that basically through all of human history the diet of common people was plant based. Potatoes, rice etc.

>>41010132
you realize that organic agriculture require animals and that animals require agriculture right ?

You guys have to stop picking a side as if you were 100% correct. We just need to balance our plates so that the meat consumption isn't much more than 50% of all we eat.

If everybody ate only vegetable, we would need so many animals that the methane production would increase...veganism is only good for the comfort of the animal, but it's not a sustainable ecological solution.

>>41010132
Not >>41010098, but I think the idea is that the ecological argument for veganism is only compelling to a certain extent. If you want to argue that eating meat is ecologically damaging, then by all means have at it. You really have to try and bury your head in the sand to deny that, and its certainly a better argument than 'humans aren't *supposed* to eat meat' (emphasis on the supposed because that argument makes absolutely no sense).

The issue is that the same argument doesn't provide a compelling enough argument in of itself to stop eating meat altogether. Imagine if mass-scale, industrialised farming and husbandry were replaced with smaller-scale farming methods which were less ecologically harmful. You still need to provide a reason as to why eating meat in that instance is still 'wrong'.

>>41009688

Are you implying if slavery was legal you wouldn't get rich off owning them because you bet your ass i would
It was a ridiculously profitable venture

>>41010098
Yeah the problem is the industry not the meat eating itself. But can you really convince people with that? I doubt you can rally people, "We don't want to ban meat, on special occasions it's fine but the excesses of the modern meat and dairy industries are disgusting and bad for health and environment". It sounds so weak.

Been doing it for centuries

>>41010179
The reality is, with over 7 billion people on the planet, industrialised farming is the only way to feed a substantial percentage of the population any significant amount of meat; even today, the majority of the world population does not eat a substantial amount of meat. If you want to make meat a expensive luxury good, restricted to only the top few percent, go ahead. I cant say I see anything wrong with that, per say, but I do believe it is a complete fantasy.

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>>41010013
Yes, arguments involving the ethics of environmental protection and conservation are purely >muh feels vs reals

>>41010236
No disagreement here anon. I think the idea is less to make meat an expensive luxury good restricted to the top few percent, than it is to make meat something which is viewed as somewhat more of a luxury than a staple. Its worth acknolwedging that most of my arguments about making these changes are pretty much restricted to the West; a particular bone to pick with vegan arguements is the idea that starving populations should have to suddenly try and subsist on a difficult and expensive diet rather than subsisting on what is cheap, available, and plentiful. And you're right in that it is a complete fantasy, and likely always will be. But if vegans are going to try and persuade people to embrace their diet they need to do so without resorting to empty moralising or appealing to 'scientific' facts which don't really have any place within the veganism argument, which is more my contention within this thread.

>>41008520
You have 30 seconds to justify forcing your bullshit on others.

>>41010283
>starving populations should have to suddenly try and subsist on a difficult and expensive diet rather than subsisting on what is cheap, available, and plentiful
I think you have this backwards. Poor populations subside on a predominantly plant based diet, although not vegan, precisely for these reasons. Rural india, Africa, China etc; we forget that this is where the majority of the planet lives. As the wealth of these countries increase, so does the animal consumption -- with the inevitable rise in western disease along with it.

>>41010341
You know what, that's not a bad point. Well put desu

How can you tell if somebody is vegan?
Don't worry they'll tell you

>>41009811
>its not in the interests of vegan groups to show you animals being slaughtered ethically or humanely
Because that's an oxymoron. There is no such thing as "ethical" or "humane" slaugter.

>>41010148
>common knowledge that basically through all of human history the diet of common people was plant based. Potatoes, rice etc.
No this isn't common knowledge and it's majoritarily a meme. A diet that merely has plants in it comes nowhere close to equaling plant based

>>41010509
Then why is there any argument against or for it? You're just shifting it to ecological or subjective arguments

>>41010509
Have to disagree. There is a vast difference between giving an animal a quick, painless death than subjecting it to a long, drawn out and stressful death. You might be right that killing an animal is inherently unethical or inhumane, but given that animals are being killed the emphasis ought to be put on how they are killed, rather than whether or not they should be killed at all.

Its the same reason why when prisoners are sentenced to death, we don't have them torn apart by wild dogs but instead try and afford them some dignity in a quick, painless death (yes, I know these methods aren't foolproof but you take my point). The act of killing the prisoner may (and should) remain subject to debate, but if they're going to die, then the manner of their death is significant.

>>41008520
Im not a fucking degenerate faggot

>>41010523
Plant based as in "the majority their food was plants". Sorry is that was ambiguous.

>>41008532
Veggies were alive too.

Plus I don't give a shit.

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>>41008679
>>41008623
yeah that was totally true story, you're definitely a badass that nobody should mess with

>>41010554
of* if*
God I can't type right now.

>>41009045
Nope, they are related to OVER EATING.

i don't care about the studies attempting to disprove veganism. the vast majority are funded for by companies who stand to lose a lot from the popularisation of a vegan diet or they're flawed. The fact so many people get defensive when veganism is mentioned show that there is something wrong with a meat based diet. These are just ancillary arguments too- if you can watch footage from factory farms, whether it's a slaughterhouse or a chicken cage, and not be disgusted, then in my eyes you don't have the emotional intelligence required to be a decent person. People are offended by the act of abstaining from causing suffering. That alone speaks lengths.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Twain

"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." Tolstoy

>>41009227
>Resistent to facts
>Lookat my studies based on a shitty methodology that actively try to prove my ideology!

I eat meat for the gains Mr Skeleton

>>41010528
I'm arguing it's not humane or ethical so we shouldn't do it

>>41010546
I don't give a fuck how the animals die, the point is they shouldn't die by our hands in the first place. My point remains, and you even agree, it is unethical to kill animals, period. The rest doesn't matter.

>>41010593
>i don't care about the studies attempting to disprove veganism.
Then your opinion shouldn't be taken seriously. Veganism and vegetarianism have already been disproved as pseudoscience anyway. It's a choice no more, no less.
>The fact so many people get defensive when veganism is mentioned show that there is something wrong with a meat based diet.
No, it just shows you've fallen hard for pseudoscience and memes

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>>41010634
>I'm arguing it's not humane or ethical so we shouldn't do it
Then you're literally making an ethical/moral argument.

You don't get to decide what's right or wrong, only what's right or wrong for you

Get a grip

>>41009422
>Farmers
What is Animal Husbandry for five bucks, Alan?

>>41009552
Farmer cultures weren't farming only, Jesus fuck.

>>41010648
Yeah, so then why did we as a society do things like outlaw slavery and give women the right to vote? All they did was literally make ethical/moral arguments. Who were they to decide right and wrong?

It's almost like making these arguments is the cornerstone of acheieving progress in socitey.

>>41008532
>greens are delicious

>>41010634
>I don't give a fuck how the animals die, the point is they shouldn't die by our hands in the first place
I promise you I'm not trying to be facetious here, but why not? If an animal, which has been domesticated, bred, and reared specfically for the purpose of providing a resource, why shouldn't it be killed in order to extract that resource?

Likewise, ff your argument is that it is unethical to kill animals, period, then you have to account for instances beyond husbandry in which animals are killed. Take culling for example. It might be unpleasant, but culling plays a very real ecological role in preventing overpopulation of certain species from causing greater harm to their environment. If doing so preserves the wider ecological health of an environment, then killing a specified number of those animals would appear to be justified. Its not a great example, granted, but the idea of establishing a moral absolute in this instance seems odd.

>>41010680
I'm also going to assume that this is you too so I'll take a crack at this one as well. Equating slavery to killing animals for meat is a pretty poor false equivalence. The reason we outlawed slavery is because we recognised that the subjugation of another human being violates their rights as a moral agent, bodily autonomy, etc. Affording women the vote is an acknowledgement of equality between human beings, and the lack of a justifiable rationale for denying them suffrage. We can arrive at ethical/moral arguments for both these instances, but they aren't the only arguments present or involved. Making these arguments might be the cornerstone of achieving progress in society, but they aren't the only arguments required or involved.

>>41010712
Absolutes are always stupid!

>>41008671
Sorry but you havent read up on veganism. You actually sacrice health on being a meat eater. We get a shitton of diseases/health problems from eating meat and other dairy products. Please educate yourself so you can also go vegan!

>>41008532
>veggies
>delicious

pick one

>>41008520
because I am an environmental scientist who regularly undergoes fasting and ketosis, and understands that humans evolved to have a portion of their diet be animal protein.

>>41010756
I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me but yeah, that's my point

>>41010801
>not appreciating the glorious sweet taste of based brocolli

>>41010807
It was a joke because the statement itself was also an absolute.

>>41009322
Why does vegan have the highest testosterone then? Fucking idiot

because i'm straight

>>41008520
we don't have time to eat 1.5 kg of oats to get enough protein

>>41010841
It's basically impossible to not eat enough protein. On the contrary protein overconsumption is a huge thing, you don't need that much.

>>41010874
No, YOU don't need that much.

>>41008520
I have my own free range chickens so they get a pretty good life.
Factory farming is reprehensible but convenient. I feel bad when indulging in it but I'm slowly transitioning away.

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>>41010680
>Yeah, so then why did we as a society do things like outlaw slavery and give women the right to vote?
Because as a society we decided those were right for society whereas with veganism and vegetarianism we didn't, we decided it was a subjective choice

You're missing the point on purpose.

Get a grip and stop trying to rule the world for other people

>>41010712
>Likewise, ff your argument is that it is unethical to kill animals, period, then you have to account for instances beyond husbandry in which animals are killed. Take culling for example
You're missing the most important and biggest one- animals eating each other. By his demented logic this is the biggest horror on the planet because it results in the most animal deaths. By his logic the ABSOLUTE best way to be a vegan is to kill all the animals in nature to stop them killing all the animals in nature

I've said it multiple times- there is not and cannot be a non subjective, logical argument for veganism

>>41010896
Wrong the human body can't process that much, 150g+ protein per day is just plain stupid and bad for your liver.

It is my right to kill for myself, that includes food, self defense

I don't have to justify it

>>41010874
You're talking about sugar and salt

>>41008520
Because eating meat and offal can supply certain nutrients (a multitude of B vitamins, iron, copper, phosphorus), protein, and fat (inb4 'but muh heart disease') in a quantity that veggies simply cannot match. Most, if not all, meat also a complete protein source, something that most veggies/grains cannot say.

Seriously, why is it so hard to comprehend that a diet comprised of large amounts of veggies and meat - especially if it's offal - is superior to a pure vegan diet?

>>41008520
Veganism is unhealthy

>>41010914
No real disagreement here. I mean after all, why not simply argue that eating meat is humanity's reward for assuming primacy over the planet, and cultivating its resources (including not just animals, but plants, geology etc.) to our own ends. The point I keep coming back to is that, whether or not you agree its ethical or inhumane, millions of these animals exist with the sole purpose of being slaughtered for their meat. Its why I object to trophy-hunting (eg. lions) but not culling; sometimes there is a legitimate purpose behind killing an animal, and sometimes there isn't.

>>41010931
That is an even bigger thing true. Still, many people believe that more protein = better and more muscles so they stuff themselves with chicken breast and protein pulver/shakes every day. Just look at the catalog, there are tons of threads about this every day.

>>41010712
> If an animal, which has been domesticated, bred, and reared specfically for the purpose of providing a resource, why shouldn't it be killed in order to extract that resource?
Because your subjucating the animal. I think that breeding and rearing animals is also unethical. They shouldn't be used as resources.

As for culling, I'd have to look into that further but I do agree that maybe in some rare cases, killing an animal is unavoidable.

>equating slavery to killing animals for meat is a pretty poor false equivalence.
It's only a false equivilance because you have a speciest mindset. It's still subjugation of another being, whether it's human or otherwise.

>>41010914
>Get a grip and stop trying to rule the world for other people
We're in a transitory period. Socitey is starting to decide veganism is morally right.

>By his logic the ABSOLUTE best way to be a vegan is to kill all the animals in nature to stop them killing all the animals in nature
You've entirely missed the point. Vegans want to stop HUMAN SUBJUGATION OF ANIMALS. Animals lack the capacity for this type of rational thought, and so they cannot be held accountable for their actions.

>>41008532
You can't murder animals, just like animals can't murder people you retarded fuck.

>>41010992
Again, I'm not trying to be facetious but you're going to have to explain to me why using animals as a resource is unethical. Subjugation implies that these animals would otherwise be frollicking freely in the wild, which I've explained isn't the case when referring to animals bred and reared solely for slaughter. (I'm curious though as to whether or not your objection to breeding and rearing animals extends to positive aspects of domestication, such as breeding animals which are more suited to their environments, or breeding out of undesirable traits?) If you're basing it on the idea of my being speciesist, then things get a whole lot worse. Human beings are superior to animals in every sense, and there is in my mind no logical, comeplling, or justifiable argument against or objection to this idea. Subjugation of an animal and a human being are nothing alike, and trying to establish equivalence between the two is in no way justifiable in my mind.

>>41010637

Vegans and vegetarians live longer and are healthier in general, of which has been proven. That's the only important study about it. Occam's razor.

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>>41008520
B12, iron, zinc, creatine, omega-3 acids, sulfur, and other animal-based nutrients, that I don't feel like going to the next state over to get.

Also, I'm an animal. Yes, an animal that has superior intelligence and social skills (being able to grasp concepts such as Social Contract) just like the rest of my species, but never the less an animal with omnivorous traits.

>b-but killing animals is murder

Most normal sane people see anything that isn't a human as "other". Generally speaking, most animals can't pay taxes, can't provide major infrastructure beyond food, hold a job, further technology and knowledge, or be able to handle being around hundreds of their own kind, be able to understand concepts outside of that of a two year old, etc.

t. fly-over who hunts for his meat

>>41008520

I have a digestive disease that means literally every single plant based orotein source causes major digestive distress.

Anything with insoluble fibre fuggs my shit up. Soy, beans, nuts, peanut butter, etc.

>Implying bivalves are not an ethical meat to consume
>implying insects like crickets are not ethical to consume
>basing your ethics on 'meat' and not what has a CNS and not to determine it's ability to CONSCIOUSLY experience pain

Yeah you're a brainlet. If you unironically think eating a mussel is bad you should get shot into the sun.

>>41011058
Bringing them into existence for the sole purpose of subjugating them is unethical.

I'll go back to the slavery example, bringing a human into existence for the sole purpose of making them a slave is unethical.

>Human beings are superior to animals in every sense
Superiority is subjective. I'll concede that we do have greater intelligence but that's pretty much it. In the end we're just another animal, and you should think of yourself as one.

The superiority argument was also applied to slaves, and also the jews. "White people are the superior race and we have a right to rule over the lesser races". It's essentially the same argument.

Even if we are superior, what right does that give us to needlessly exploit animals?

>>41010874
vegan moron 3 months I lifted while not caring about protein bread,pizza,fruit,sweets and I was so deficient when I cumed there was only one drop and my brain was slow af now I cum almost whole cup and brain has normal speed

>>41011185
>I ate shit, got deficiencies and felt bad
No way!

Newsflash, vegan doesn't automatically mean healthy. Chips, pizza and cola is a vegan diet. Also you're retarded because pizza has good amounts of protein.

>>41008520
I'm dumb and don't care about the well being of myself nor anyone or anything else.
Fuck the planet too.
>tfw vegan myself
feels good
Watch Cowspiracy and What the Health? and see for yourself how many of your """""""arguments""""""" will stand

>>41008545
what are leafy greens ?

>>41011252
>Also you're retarded because pizza has good amounts of protein
I thought that too but body needs much more protein when it has to repair muscle every day
and half a vegan pizza a day is far from enough protein

>>41008616
alkaline pussy > adic pussy

and vegans how do you socialize when you fart like crazy .with all them plants in body your body has less power for training when it needs far more energy for digestion

>>41008644
why is a vegans blood so inhospitable to cancer cells

>>41011134
>I'll go back to the slavery example, bringing a human into existence for the sole purpose of making them a slave is unethical
Again, because we understand that there is a vast difference between human being and animals. A human being is a moral agent and posesses bodily autonomy; therefore subjugation of a human being is wrong because of the restriction of this agency and autonomy, moreso if they are brought into existence with the intention of subjugating them. But this same standard just doesn't apply to animals

>Superiority is subjective. I'll concede that we do have greater intelligence but that's pretty much it. In the end we're just another animal, and you should think of yourself as one.
But this just isn't true. Intelligence alone isn't what separates us from animals. Moral agency (I keep bringing it up because its important), self-awareness, the ability to ratioanlise, empathise, create, organise etc. all separate us. We aren't slaves to our instincts like most animals, and we are able to utilse our abilities in order to better our own lives. The superiority argument was also applied to slaves, and the jews, you're right, but those are larglely emotive arguments since we have since reconciled with the immorality of those actions. If slavery were still socially acceptable, or the Holocaust viewed as justifiable instead of universally abhorred and reviled then you might have a point, but they aren't and you don't.

>Even if we are superior, what right does that give us to needlessly exploit animals?
Last one I promise but I feel that this is a useful exchange. You're right to question the legitimacy of exploiting animals, but I'd caution the use of needlessly, because it implies that human action requires a practical need in order to make something legitimate. Human's dont 'need' to do anything. We could still be living in caves in the middle of bumfuck nowhere if we wanted. There's no need to adapt, develop, and achieve anything. But we do.

>>41010170
>If everybody ate only vegetable, we would need so many animals
Not even a vegan, but are you having a stroke?

>giving a shit about what animals feels
>Valuing animal life over plant life
>Spooks
>Morality

Lmaoing@urlife

>>41008557
W-why is the man above the woman in that food chain?
Am I supposed to ingurgitate women for gainz?

>>41011371
> Moral agency, self-awareness, the ability to ratioanlise, empathise, create, organise etc. all separate us
Those are all just facets of intelligence

>If slavery were still socially acceptable, or the Holocaust viewed as justifiable instead of universally abhorred and reviled then you might have a point, but they aren't and you don't.
They aren't acceptable because people argued that it was morally wrong, just the same as vegans do.

>but I'd caution the use of needlessly
But it is needless. Where most advancements humanity has come up with improve quality of life in some way, animal agriculture has now started to have adverse affects on both the health of the population as well as the environment (water use, farmland use, greenhouse gasses, etc). Yes, ultimately in the end everything is needless but that doesn't get us anywhere

>>41011079
No, they haven't. This is the most meme argument of all touted by vegans/vegetarians as truth

>>41009251
These could be the most cherry picked sources I have ever seen in any argument ever

>>41009650
Coming from the guy that talks about projecting. Kek

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cause fuck you
>pic related, its me

>>41011110
What does your diet consist of? Geniunely curious, if you can't eat plants or vegetables

>>41008520
I'm a member of the apex species on planet Earth who can kill other animals with ease.

what are herbs, spices,roots, grains, fruits, vegetables, leafy-greens, legumes and calisthenic exercises ?

Did you know that animal product consumption by humans is likely the leading cause of modern species extinctions, since it's not only the major driver of land degradation, pollution, climate change , over-fishing, sedimentation of coastal area, facilitation of invasions by alien species, and loss of wild carnivores and wild herbivores animals.

But I don't care about that, I eat only plants for fitness stuff.

>>41008520
meat is delicious. fuck vegans
sage

>>41012292
And your post could be the most non argument I've ever seen in any argument ever.
>>41012301
>Shitposts and projects
>Gets mad when he gets called out on it

ITT: How does food chain work?

>>41009667
Tooth decay is caused primarily by the switch to eating grains.

>>41009915
>sharks and fish can coexist
They do.

>>41008520
Can I have an hour?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5RZ4i6DmlQ

>>41010801
>>41010711
Imagine an adult person typing this

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>>41009251
>blogpost.com is my source

>>41008525
not an argument

>>41008529
not an argument

>>41008534
not an argument

>>41008544
not an argument

>>41009123
not an argument

>>41013096
It is though senpai

>>41013038
>not reading

>>41008534
> without problems

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

>>41013115

Nope, saying ''I like it'' does not justify something as harmful as eating animal based products famalam. If a murderer would justify his actions by saying ''I like it'' or ''I dont care'' then we would not accept that either

Do you drink water?
That's the fish's home asshole

>>41013115
yep senpai

Humans are animals
Animals eat other animals

>>41013379
Murdering a human and killing an animal for the sake of using it's remains for consumption is quite different and don't act like you don't realise that

I'm not a vegan, I'm a Pescetarian and don't regret it a single bit. I used to eat an insane amount of cheese/eggs/pork/chicken/beef/etc. I was gaining muscle, so it was all good. Ever since switching to attaining most of my protein from nuts/fish, I've felt much better than normal. Maybe it's a placebo effect or something, but eating "lighter" food seems to not make me so sluggish. Anyone else have this effect?

>>41013426

Yes please compare yourself to a Lion more lmao.

>B-but muh canines! muh hunters instinct anon!

yes, if you see a bird or a squirrel outside you want to rip it open to shreds with your canines right? it's not like you buy your meat from a grocerystore when it's already been killed and pre packaged right lmao.

Don't know why the fuck you compare yourself to a wild carnivore

>>41013443

In which way is it different, both are done because someone likes it.

Or is it because we have more power than animals? That it's convenient for us? Because tradition and the social norm are powerful tools to tell people what to and what not to do?

Riddle me this Einstein. Let's say an alien race comes to earth, said alien race has much more power when it comes to intelligence, technological advancement, military capability, body types etc. In every single way they are more advanced than us.

Would you find it justified to let them wipe out humanity just because they can? or they like it?

If you do find it justified, then tell me why we think it's illegal to murder or rape.

If you do not think it's cool for them to murder us all then ask yourself why you do the same thing to other living creatures.

Oh and if you want to get into the medical side of things be my guest, I'd love that

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I eat meat with a pretty guilty conscience. A hundred thousand years ago, sure, eating meat and whatever else came your way was fair game. These days it's completely unnecessary, there's a ton of non-animal based food. I'm eventually going to transition to being a pescatarian since you get to eat meat (fish meat) with no negative feelings. Yeah, it's hypocritical but I genuinely do not feel bad for fish getting killed.


I wonder what would happen to all the cattle we have if everyone stopped eating meat. Would the species just die out? What would even be their purpose?

>>41013608

Pretty amazing step in the right direction, atleast you're seeing the big picture. Most pescatarians I know went plantbased after a while though so there's that

>>41013604
im not vegan but ive never seen a counter to the point you're trying to think, really makes you think

>>41013604
All life exists as food for other life. That's why we exist in the first place and how natural selection works.

Natural selection is an arms race of things "trying" to get better at avoiding being eaten by other things while getting better at being able to, themselves, eat other living things.
Animals kill other animals in the trillions per day. This isn't some tragedy; it's nature.
The reason humans don't kill other humans -- which we actually do very regularly, by the way -- is because of genetic social cohesion. That is, natural selection is driven by reproductive success -- genes that produce traits that help make more copies of themselves will inherently exist more commonly than genes that produce traits that aren't as good at making copies of themselves. That includes our physical and psychological traits.

Given limited resources, there is mathematical benefit in collaborating instead of competing. That is, if there is enough food for two people and there are three people, two ganging up on the one will get the food and split it. This principle is what makes the difference between social animals, like humans, and individualistic animals. Humans have often killed each other between groups, but within group loyalty means we evolved neutral truces instinctively with others. It's that instinct for neutrality with other humans we view as part of "us" and not "them" that leads us to principles like the golden rule.

>>41009874
>killing is murder
>idiotic concept

>>41013529
Unlike lion, we have intelligence. We don't need to hunt because we made tools. That's our killer feature, tools, technology and our intelligence. We don't need razor sharp teeth because we and our ancestor were smart enough to make tools like a pointy stick to kill our food. Over time we figure out it's easier to cage some animals and eat them later. Unlike a wild animal, we're smart.

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>>41013652
Well, there's the guilt factor, yeah, but also I just want to feel healthier while also eating tasty things. Fish is perfect for that reason, it's delicious and healthy. So I don't think I'll go plant based, unless one day I suddenly start feeling guilty about killing fish. Which might happen.

>>41013714
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-12344/why-eating-fish-is-even-more-dangerous-than-you-thought.html

>>41013733
>Canned Albacore Tuna
Halibut
King Mackerel
Sea bass
Shark
Spanish and Atlantic Mackerel
Swordfish
Tilefish
Tuna Steaks

Yeah, I think I can safely avoid those while eating the rest anon.

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>>41013757

>>41008520
Because between my fiance's and my backgrounds (RD with a PhD in nutrition and MS in environmental science/PhD in evolutionary biology, respectively) we both know that going full vegan is pants on head retarded and that humans are supposed to be omnivores.

>>41013777
LUCKY TRIPS OP LITERALLY AND MEMELY BLOWN TFO

>>41013777
>RD with a PhD in nutrition and MS in environmental science/PhD in evolutionary biology, respectively
Sure thing.

>>41013777
As a meat eater who is tired of all the vegans morally bashing us over the head all day, can you give some reasons as to why?

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>>41013775
Yeah, so don't eat big, fatty fish and stick to smaller ones. I love me some sprats.

>>41013604
Tou seem to imply that there is such a thing as universal morality. In this universe might makes right so it's moot to ask if aliens are "justified" in wiping us out because it's their decision to do so regardless. In short, yes thay re justified by virtue of their strength and our inability to stop them. Is a lion not justified in fucking up a gazelle and eating it? Is a gazelle somehow more "moral" and "justified" in its existence because its diet?

>>41008520
I like triggering vegan fuckboys like you

come at me faggot

>>41013819
Which is basically the main point of the 'ethics' argument that vegans such as this anon like to bring up, something which (that also contradicts his argument) is a social construct, and doesn't really fly in nature

>>41013604
To answer your dumbass question, killing is the simple ending of a life. A murder is a killing done outside of the bounds of a legal framework. There is no universal morality but there is law in civilised society. Animals are not a part of society thus they cannot be murdered per se.

>>41008616
questionable

>>41013681

>All life exists as food for other life. That's why we exist in the first place and how natural selection works.

And yet eating animal based products is horrible in many ethical, medial and environmental ways hmmmmm makes you think doesn't it?

>Animals kill other animals in the trillions per day. This isn't some tragedy; it's nature.

Why are you appealing to nature? do you lick your anus as well like a wild animal? do you kill other young animals or humans just so you don't feel threatened? If you truly think humans cannot think of any better way to regulate our dietary intake than a wild carnivore than I must say you are either A) lowtier baiting or B) stupid

>The reason...psychological traits.

You are missing the point here. If you were to go up to 2 random dudes on the street and ask them if they would be okay with one killing the other for no reason than ''I like it'' or ''I like the taste of human flesh'' neither would find it okay to kill for pleasure. you're going on a complete tangent about our genetic traits but by doing so you're completely avoiding the issue. It's not justifying it at all

>Given limited...golden rule

In which way is buying your pre packaged and already murdered flesh in a grocerystore a matter of survival? Again, you are completely avoiding the issue. Saying that we have often killed in groups does not justify the problem we are facing right now. If you're worried about resources being scarce then why are you even eating animal based products at all? having to sustain 130+ bilion animals each year is much harder to sustain than crops

>>41013793
Every other ape is an omnivore, from an evolutionary perspective. Humans still have many of the same genes as other apes and we're programmed to process both plants and meats. However, we lack the same enzymes as other herbivores, so we can't efficiently process all the nutrients from a purely plant-based diet.

From a nutritional angle, humans have a much harder time absorbing micronutrients from plants than they do from meat, in particular zinc and iron. In addition, humans need levels of protein, B12, and fat that cannot easily be obtained from a solely plant-based diet unless you are quite literally constantly eating. Plus, when you try getting your protein from plant sources, you need to eat various combinations of foods to get all 20 amino acids, but you'll always have a few that aren't at full capacity. Plus, your carb load from a pure plant diet is way off, which messes with testosterone development, fat absorption, and energy use.

tl;dr - we don't have the enzymes other herbivores have and cannot effectively or efficiently process nutrients from plant-based diets. If you need to supplement your diet, it's a shitty diet.

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>>41013714
>nobody recognizes Requiem
>remember than I'm on /fit/, not /tg/

Why hs /fit/ been such a shit board for the last 6 years?

Why can't you be more like /diy/? Or even fucking /o/?

>>41011371
You clearly know jack shit about zoology and how animals live and function.

>>41013885
how about you get the fuck back to your gay ass boards

>>41013885
>be like sl/o/w, /fit/

Pls go

>>41013900
Nigga, I posted in the original help thread for tiny Alex, before we convinced him he needed a (tiny)trip.

You go back to the fungus infected cunt you crawled out of. I bet you can't even run a 7 minute mile and deadlift 500.

>>41013923
Slow boards are best boards. If you have time to track fast boards, you're not lifting enough.

>>41011371
>our ability to ratinoalise empathise nyahnyahnyahnyah

Our ability to dominate all other species is what makes us OBJECTIVELY superior. The mechanism of action for our dominance is irrelevant.

>>You're moving the goalpoasts, I was contesting the point that murdering an animal is the same as murdering a human, which it isn't.

Ultimately, this argument come down to preference. People very much like meat. Sure, we can survive without meat, but we evolved with a natural taste for it as we evolved eating it and many of us like it. It provides a great source of protein. Life isn't about just doing the minimal need to survive. People generally like to do things they enjoy. We don't need to play sports, or video games, but we play them anyway. Think of all of the environmental damage from everything that people simply enjoy doing, such as all the cars at sports games, the environmental costs of stadiums, power used, etc. If only we'd just lay in bed all day and be fed an intravenous synthetic food sufficient to stay alive, that'd be a much better way to live? No, life is about doing things you enjoy and like, and meat is part of that.

On top of that, we almost universally eat domesticate animals. That is, we eat animals that wouldn't exist if we didn't create them. The cattle we eat don't exist in nature and never did. They wouldn't survive in it either. They've been artificially bred for thousands of years for human purposes, including meat and dairy cattle. If we all stopped eating meat tomorrow, billions of cattle would die anyway. They would all cease to exist. Either we kill them or let them lose in which case they die soon after from predators, disease, or starvation. It would probably be an environmental disaster as well if it happened quickly.

>>41013964
whoops didn't mean for the greentext

>>41013874

>However, we lack the same enzymes as other herbivores

You mean just how we lack the capability of producing vitamin C? Or how we require fiber to attain peristalsis? or how we produce alkaline with ptyalin? we have MUCH more in common with herbivores than carnivores.

>From a nutritional angle, humans have a much harder time absorbing micronutrients from plants than they do from meat, in particular zinc and iron

Define much harder. Oh and ima need sources for these bold claims. Btw B12 can easily be supplemented unless you want to eat the dirt which is able to house the B12 and which isn't found in meat.

>but you'll always have a few that aren't at full capacity. Plus, your carb load from a pure plant diet is way off, which messes with testosterone development, fat absorption, and energy use.

Again, sources please.

>>41013990
>teach me about anatomy and the endocrine system, anon. pwetty pweese!

Look it up

>>41008520
I am vegan, no need for justifications

>>41013990
Vegans are deficit in b12:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329

Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

>>41013956
It becomes relevant when it's shit for our health and environment. Regardless of objective superiority.

>>41013964
> Life isn't about just doing the minimal need to survive

In what way is eating plantbased just enough to survive? do you have any idea what you can eat when you're vegan? outside of the you know, ''grass and hay'' meme.

>They would all cease to exist. Either we kill them or let them lose in which case they die soon after from predators, disease, or starvation. It would probably be an environmental disaster as well if it happened quickly.

Ahhh another fuckup we made which we have problems solving since we are fucking stupid. Sooo murdering them is a better way than providing a way for them to reintegrate in nature? the fuck? and please tell me how they would cease to exist and how this would cause an environmental disaster.

>>41013874
>Plus, your carb load from a pure plant diet is way off
Only that the diet in basically all of history was heavily leaning towards carbs/plants. Even today the healthiest populations eat mainly plant based. Also a vegan diet doesn't say much about macros, sure low carb isn't possible but you can still eat a lot of fat or protein if you wanted. I highly doubt that part of your post and I don't believe you have any scientific background.

>>41013687
Top tier bait

>>41008520
Veganism affects memory:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/you-illuminated/201102/does-vegetarianism-make-you-dumber

Veganism causes progressive cognitive impairment:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/554564-effects-of-a-vegan-diet-on-the-brain/

Veganim bad for athletes:
https://blog.bulletproof.com/carl-lewis-vegan/

Veganim dangerous for developing children:
http://www.ancestral-nutrition.com/veganism-extremely-dangerous-for-babies/

tl,dr: I need my BODY and my BRAIN to work CORRECTLY, and IDGAF about the goddamn animals. Humans are CLEARLY OMNIVORES. You Vegans need to realize your brains don't work correctly anymore, and EAT SOME MEAT before you wreck your lives.

/thread

>>41014051
overpopulation of a particular species can cause a great deal of damage to the local ecosystem due to overgrazing and can lead to an increased amount of illness and roadkill disproportional to the increase in population. Under a situation like this and where the natural predators are incapable of bringing down the population whether it be due to not enough of them, easier prey, or they have been pushed out of the area, then the best solution if for humans to take up the role of natural predator. This then applies a pressure to the population to keep it at a level that the habitat can support. However, we won't be taking the role of a predator in this situation.

>>41014051
>it's shit for our health and environment

This is the biggest load of bullshit.

You faggots just can't stomach the animals being killed.

>>41014119
Veganism is an unhealthy meme diet

>>41014051
>shit for our health
Tenuous links based on shaky science

>shit for our environment
There are waaaaaay bigger fish to fry in that regard. Do you use automobiles or airplanes? Do you live in a city? Do you buy bottled drinks or eat exotic products from other countries?

What's shit for our environment is so many of us being here on this planet.

>>41014119
The biggest thing that gets me about it is this. It would be perfectly fine if you don't like eating animals because animal suffering and death makes you uneasy. Why all the other hubbub to try to prop it up as some moral superiority thing?

>>41014045
As always that can easily be taken care of with a little bit of effort.

>>41014077
Half of these sources are bullshit about anecdotal shit and, again see above.

All of their claims go back to the same argument "it's harder to get a 100% healthy intake of all nutrients" which is a problem with any diet because it requires active planning. If you do that you can easily incorporate vegan alternatives. If you list the deficiencies in the regular western diet there are many more problems than "just" a few nutrients that often trouble vegans.

>>41013874
>PhD in evolutionary biology
>can only spout broscience
what a waste of an education

>>41013964
>People very much like meat
One of the greatest problems is not the basic notion of eating meat, but rather the amount of the meat eaten, which is unhealthy for us and for the environment.
>but we play them anyway
Which doesn't cause anyone's suffering (except Indian and Chinese kids and dead Ukranian workers who were there illegally anyway)
The environmental problem is real, but for the most part, humans are trying to minimalise it and find new ways of limiting it. The animal production, however, is aimed in a completely different direction: increase.
>life is about doing things you enjoy and like, and meat is part of that.
But the ethical point is, are you truly happy knowing that it causes great harm and sufering to living beings? Try to look at things not from the sheltered POV (some people really think meat is "made" in a supermarket somehow) but look up how actually meat comes to appear on your plate.
> wouldn't exist if we didn't create them
we conditioned them, not created them, they would exist in an almost same form, possibly giving less milk and being less prone to genetical diseases, more happy
>billions of cattle would die anyway . . . environmental disaster if it happened quickly
The question is not simple, and solving it would in no way mean everyone turning vegan overnight with billions of animals left alive somehow. It would mean limiting and then stopping breeding new animals, or at least limiting. If people ate meat much less than they do know, it would 1) it would incredibely improve their health and 2)not piss off so many people asthe animals would ot be treated like complete shit
It would not be an environmental disaster. That argument is completely invalid if you just think about the fact that there are millions of species of animals living without serving your dietary needs yet the Earth is fine and swell (apart from humans fucking it up crazy).

The endline is this: We can, but that we can does not entail that we should.

>>41014131
>Veganism is an unhealthy meme diet
It's actually worse than that. Veganism exists to place animals ABOVE humans on the food chain. Vegans literally sacrifice their health and overall quality of life so that dumb animals can live better than humans. Given the ability to 'humanely' decimate the human population of the Earth, Vegans would do so, because they believe humans are a plague on the Earth, like locusts, and shouldn't even be here anymore. This insanity is reinforced by the cognitive deficit caused by their long-term malnutrition. Really, seriously, honestly, it's evil.

>>41014133
>There are waaaaaay bigger fish to fry in that regard
Actually it pretty fucking big. I forgot the exact numbers but every pound of meat costs loads of resources and pollution. Considering how much meat people usually eat these days it's incredibly relevant.

>>41014194
The fuck is that nonsense. Stop generalising some retarded view and making retarded assumptions yourself.

>>41014045

Belief confirmed, you are a legit tard.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788 Nice 404

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

All levels were favorable except B12 which is easily supplemented.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329
Are you even fucking trying with this one? Biggest contributing factor in general is getting enough sunlight, and why is it performed on high fiber Asian immigrants do you know the dietary analysis of an Asian? It's not fucking plantbased, contributing factor to having a less desirable D and D3 is not just the fiber but their whole dietary intake in general.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478

Raw. Vegetarian. Diet.
When were we discussing a raw vegetarian diet again?? PLANTBASED, cunt.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700
takes a sample of 2 families, tries to give a conclusion based on said 2 families... great work dude, a sample of 2 is enough for a valid peer reviewed study.. holy shit..

>>41014176
Careful Anon, your cognitive deficit is showing.

You can't make any valid arguments if you're Vegan, because your brain, documentably, doesn't work correctly while you're eating a strict vegetarian diet, and unless you're eating HUNDREDS of grams of fiber every single day, you CANNOT get all the nutrients your brain needs to be healthy. Therefore any arguments you make in favor of 'veganism' are not valid, because you are INCOMPETENT by definition.

Go eat some meat before it's too late, you're a danger to yourself, and perhaps to others.

>>41014186
I'll concede and agree with that endline

>>41014234
That's a long post for a shitty ad hominem. Also I had meat for dinner today so where's your god now.

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>>41014194
Best part is they accomplish absolutely nothing in the end because meat is still being farmed and sold. Not even a dent. No one gives a shit so they can do mothing more than screech louder over the sound of us all chewing our delicious steakums and chicken tendies.

>>41014194

Autism in physical form, everybody.

>>41014265

Change, how unfortunate as it may be, does not happen overnight. Just ate some vegan tendies though, shit was tasty as fuck.

>>41014206
Bullshit vegan fag.

Your type always have the same bullshit claims that water given to cows is suddenly destroyed, if we didn't grain finish we would give that grain to the poor, or every piece of shit pasture could be planted with soy.

>>41014206
Bigger than fossil fuel consumption and commercial agriculture and the lopsided consumption of urban centers vs less populated ones all ultimately pointing and screaming at the main source of this problem, human overpopulation?

It wouldn't be a problem if there we weren't so goddamn many of us and to expect people to suddenly make such a giant radical shift is naive, at best. Other solutions need to be found to reduce impact. But none of this makes eating meat immoral.

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>>41014336

Triggered meathead cunt know's he wrong

>>41009264
>Veggies are bland
>Coats meat in spices and sauces made of veggies so it can actually be edible

>>41014336
How can you even argue against that? Are you literally retarded? Also convenient how you just forgot about the pollution part.

>>41014355
Tell me, what is moral about eating meat when we don't need it to survive, it harms both our bodies and environment and hurts the one who's being murdered? Or would you like someone to murder you for your flesh just because he has more power over you.

>>41014358
>using anything other than salt for a steak

>>41014387

>Implying you only ever eat steak, autism at it's finest.

>>41014355
So because there are other bigger problems ir somehow doesn't matter? Most vegans I know also don't drive and you can't really do anything about overpopulation as an individual (except killing yourself I guess but whatever). If you care about the environment vegan is a the right and ethical choice, there's no arguing that. Also I actually had meat and dairy for dinner (yes it was from sources I consider good) so no ad hominems needed.

>>41014364
>pollution

All AG runs on diesel. Everything in the grocery store comes at a cost of liters of diesel burned. Or are you calling the output of a natural creature pollution?

>>41008520
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/one-third-of-americans-are-willing-to-eat-lab-grown-meat-regularly/

Presuming this could beat the rate of production of farms, would this be enough to shut you faggots up?

>>41014194
>Vegans literally sacrifice their health and overall quality of life
This is very true.

We do need population control to save the environment, which is why it is a good idea to get rid of non White and non Asian races

>>41014422

The fuck are you actually trying to say?

>>41014496
>Vegans literally sacrifice their health and overall quality of life

VALID, CREDIBLE Sources please.

If you do not know what those 2 big words mean, btfo

>>41014495
yes, I might even eat it myself on occasion, probably not regularily though

>>41013608
Killing fish doesn't make me feel bad, destroying the oceans do
Hope you look into the source of your sea food

>>41014496
Aren't there studies that vegans tend to be more happy and content with their life?

>>41014496
Add the vegans to that list. If they can't accept the basic premises of life they have failed at it and should not be kept going out of pity.

>>41014418
It's not that it doesn't it's nust that it's one small contributor to the same problem to which there are much greater contributors that the elimination of which would make the impact of meat production a relatively smaller problem.

>>41014596
> basic premises of life
Survive and reproduce?

>>41014596

>If they can't accept the basic premises of life they have failed at it and should not be kept going out of pity

Yes. The basic premise of life is eating pre packaged flesh that has been murdered for you already. Good job anon.

>>41014611
but it tastes nice