Extended Fasting Help thread

>>40988250
How much salt water should I have on a fast? How frequently?

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121 hours in. Belly is noticeably smaller.

>>40988350
There's not really a downside to taking a bit more than you need, but if you take less then you'll feel like shit. Just start off taking "some" every few hours and increase if you think you need to.

>>40988352
Hell yeah man, keep it going. I'm on 62ish hours and feeling awesome. My body seems to want to pull all the fat from everywhere EXCEPT my bellyfat... but all in good time.

>>40988350
Salt really isn't necessary but it is incredibly beneficial and is a harmless supplement to the fast. You will also find that salt water actually tastes good since your body is is craving it.

Salt does not hurt you in a practical sense. You could have up to 10g a day just fine, or 6g, or 3g, however much you are comfortable with.

Here's an article on why salt is good:
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2014/05/13/salt-is-good-for-you/

When doing IF would drinking a 10kcal energy drink or coffee in the morning reset the whole process or is there a certain threshold of calories its okay to consume?

>>40988461
energy drinks usually have artificial sweeteners, many of which cause an insulin response. avoid them and just have coffee (with just a splash of milk/cream if you want it)

>>40988461
Black Coffee is 100% fine. No creamer, no sugar. Stay away from artificial sweeteners. They have adverse effects that are yet to be fully understood. They could have effects on the digestive hormones, insulin especially, that could completely throw your body into fat storage mode, disrupting the fast.

Another Anon asked this in the other fasting thread: I will answer it here for anyone curious because it is a good question:

>Seems like as good a place to ask as any.

>Been doing intermittent fasting for the past 3 months and I've only seen moderate results. Kinda feel like a water fast would help me get a nice boost for the summer cut.

>Question is; is working out during a water fast safe? I only planned on fasting for like 3 days, 4 tops. And I was only going to do a light workout during one of those days.


It will take a while to acclimate your body from food storage to fat storage, during this time you will feel like shit. But if you want to power through it and work out you are completely fine to. Just listen to your body. Exercise is actually very good for you during a fast because it helps you retain muscle and minimize muscle loss. It also helps in reducing the fat in your muscles and making them more efficient. I don't fully understand that science, though.

Here's a great article on exercising in the fasted state.

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-exercise-fasting-23/

Can women do this too? I've been cutting for a long time, on IF, but the last few pounds off my legs won't go no matter what.

I can get through the fast no problem in terms of will, but was wondering whether it'd fuck up my stupid complicated female hormones

Reminder that this thread is probably made by some guy who's developed an obsession with "proving" that CICO isn't real, and has admitted that he's been flooding the board with fasting threads.
desuarchive.org/fit/search/text/fung/type/op/

>>40988615
This is actually a common question. Women have been fasting for 6,000 years with no problems. Source: Every Religion Ever.

The only consideration is whether or not you are pregnant, no? Then you are good to go.

Children should also not fast. And you should take every other consideration that a man would take when undertaking a fast:

http://www.allaboutfasting.com/who-can-fast.html

>>40988580
Thanks a ton man!

Another dumb question. Will black coffee with a teaspoon of Stevia throw off the fast? Kind of addicted to the caffeine. From what I get, coffee is fine (black coffee), but the stevia is what concerns me about throwing off the fast.

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>>40988632
>muh calories!

>>40988632
>desuarchive.org/fit/search/text/fung/type/op/

The 3rd, 5th and 6th posts were not me. But thanks for noticing my hard work. A reminder that I do this for free, I am not a doctor, and you should research this all for yourself. I'm only here to help because helping others, in my eyes, is the greatest joy.

I'm tired of fat /fitizens/ cutting calories and failing only to be berated in fat hate threads for not having any willpower. They were given bad advice, I'm here to change that. Proceed at your own discretion.

>>40988632
I should also add, here's Mr. Not Dr. Fung himself admitting that he was gorging and couldn't count calories.
desuarchive.org/fit/thread/40923109/#q40928230

>>40988637
>Women have been fasting for 6,000 years with no problems.
>Life expectancy doubled since we stopped doing all that crap

Ok

>>40988642
Black coffee is just fine. I would stay away from sweeteners just to be safe. Coffee has actually been shown to speed up metabolism during a fast and increase the gains (losses?) of autophagy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24769862

>>40988678
and now it's going down. this generation of americans is the first that will die younger than their parents. could it be, dare i say it, all the insulin they're bathing their bodies in all fucking day?

>>40988487
>>40988503

You fags got memed, the insulin response from artificial sweeteners is so small it's meaningless. Of course you're doing fucking water fasts so you got memed in the ass already.

OP still waiting for your pic

>a fat fuck is going around giving advice, telling people to stop eating

lmao

>>40988692

It could be insulin, or maybe it's the hordes of third worlders shitting up our healthcare system and dragging the life expectancy down closer to the shithole where they came from

>>40988691
So I've been doing IF for like 3 months now, and the only thing I have in the morning before I break the fast in the afternoon is black coffee with a teaspoon of stevia.

Is the stevia throwing off my fasting period? I also drinnk a cup of coffee with a teaspoon of stevia before I go to bed (during my fast). For some weird reason it helps me fall asleep...

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>>40988735
STOP EATING FOOD

>>40988741

You're asking if something with zero calories is breaking your period of zero calories?

>>40988741
>Stevia
Hey there Dan Quinn

>>40988749
It's almost like things without calories can cause an insulin response.

>>40988250

>At about 24 hours into the fast your HGH will spike. This is mostly for rebuilding the proteins that your body has torn down. It is important for maintaining muscle mass that you do light exercise. All that is explained in the link above.

Absolutely wrong. Even vastly supraphysiological doses of GH (which I have taken) have not been shown to actually increase muscle protein synthesis or skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Will it increase lipolytic effects and IGF-1 production? At those levels, very slightly.

>Yarasheski KE, Campbell JA, Smith K, Rennie MJ, Holloszy JO, Bier DM. Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth in young men. Am J Physiol. 1992 Mar;262(3 Pt 1):E261-7
>Yarasheski KE, Zachweija JJ, Angelopoulos TJ, Bier DM. Short-term growth hormone treatment does not increase muscle protein synthesis in experienced weight lifters. J Appl Physiol (1985). 1993 Jun;74(6):3073-6.
>Blackman MR, Sorkin JD, Münzer T, Bellantoni MF, Busby-Whitehead J, Stevens TE, Jayme J, O'Connor KG, Christmas C, Tobin JD, Stewart KJ, Cottrell E, St Clair C, Pabst KM, Harman SM. Growth hormone and sex steroid administration in healthy aged women and men: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA. 2002 Nov 13;288(18):2282-92.
>Lange KH, Andersen JL, Beyer N, Isaksson F, Larsson B, Rasmussen MH, Juul A, Bülow J, Kjaer M. GH administration changes myosin heavy chain isoforms in skeletal muscle but does not augment muscle strength or hypertrophy, either alone or combined with resistance exercise training in healthy elderly men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Feb;87(2):513-23
>Berggren A, Ehrnborg C, Rosén T, Ellegård L, Bengtsson BA, Caidahl K. Short-term administration of supraphysiological recombinant human growth hormone (GH) does not increase maximum endurance exercise capacity in healthy, active
young men and women with normal GH-insulin-like growth factor I axes. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Jun;90(6):3268-73

>>40988760

If it has zero calories it cannot raise your insulin in any meaningful way

>>40988760
Yeah, stevia does not.

>>40988715
If I had a camera I would post before and after pictures, I'm going to go ask my neighbor if they have one. I WILL have a picture up in this thread. I have lost almost 45 pounds and am at 5'11 165 lbs.

>>40988789
Nobody is arguing that not eating will make you lose weight. You're still a fatass at heart if you can't control yourself to the point where you need to completely stop eating to lose weight.

>>40988778

With 0 calories an insulin response will have no effect regardless. Fuck, it might actually be *beneficial* for clearing out blood glucose and further putting you into a deeper ketogenic state.

>>40988805

Idk I'm not a medfag. If you were to inject yourself with some insulin while fasting (to simulate an insulin response) I can't imagine anything good happening.

>>40988805
The point of fasting is to lower your fasting insulin level.

Okay...so no solid response on the Stevia...

I just won't use it.

>>40988766
Not sure what you're on about:

>But our concern here is HGH. It starts at 0.73 and peaks at 9.86. That is a 1250% increase in growth hormone. Even with a relatively short 5 day fast, we are talking about 300% increase. All this HGH increases without drugs.

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/

>>40988741
Ergh mate... Stevia is very estrogenic. It should be avoided like soy.

>>40988741
I don't know much about stevia dude. I would avoid it just to be safe.

>>40988824

You'd drop into a hypoglycemic state and likely lose consciousness - unable to prevent the nasty things about to happen due to a dangerously low blood glucose level.

>>40988826

>fasting level

Correct. In which case it isn't *fasted* anymore, but you're still clearing out blood glucose to initiate a ketone response which will do more to reduce fasting insulin levels.

That's even accounting for the fact that very few artificial sweeteners have any effect on insulin levels - some actually promote glucagon-like peptide 1 (which fasting already promotes) but the majority do not show any statistically significant increase in insulin levels.

>http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/12/2184.full
>http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005106
>http://ajpgi.physiology.org/content/296/4/G735.short

>>40988860
>>40988867
Will do.

Solid black coffee it is.

Thanks for the help.

>>40988885
Yeah I'd rather stay fasted and let my ketone level go up by itself.

>>40988911
Bruh, I started doing IF, and just forgot about drinking coffee after like a week. Don't even know why, but I haven't had caffeine in like 2 months, and I don't feel bad.

After reading some of this shit, is my 18:6 daily fast worthless?

>>40988853
It's feminizing anyway, best to avoid it unless you are a woman.

>>40988854

And if you would care to look at the studies I've shown, it lists that even massively supraphysiological doses (15 IU's daily or more, which is vastly more than a 1250% increase) has been shown to have no effect on healthy men.

Your article cites a small study on 61-81 year old men with low IGF-1 levels, who had no controls put in place for diet or exercise over the 6-month period. This is not an accurate representation nor is it relevant to our particular age demographic.

>>40988503
>fat storage mode while fasting
And what exactly is the body converting into fat?

>>40988940
>is my 18:6 daily fast worthless?

It depends how quickly you want to lose fat. Longer fasts lead to faster fat loss.

>>40988955
Nothing, but it will take some time to go back to fat burning mode.

>>40988960
When you start eating again, do you eat at maintenance or deficit? How long is an "average" fast once you're acclimated?

>>40988955

Bingo.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of IF and prolonged fasts, I think there are a multitude of health benefits that be gained from it. That said, I'm on exogenous hormones so I can get away with a lot more than a natural. However it appears OP hasn't done any research and I'd like to dispel some of these ridiculous claims.

>>40988970
But you're already in a fat burning mode because you are in a deficit of not eating.

>>40988940
Yea, but I have a pretty bad caffiene addiction. I get headaches if I don't drink coffee in the morning, and other withdrawl symptoms as well.

Regarding the 18:6 fast, I'm not seeing a difference from when I was doing 16:8...but I'm wondering if that's because of all the stevia I was using.

>>40988978
>When you start eating again, do you eat at maintenance or deficit?

A surplus.

Fasting periods are for fat loss. During feasting periods, you need to eat a lot. Otherwise you're basically just doing a calorie-reduced diet, which is shit.

>How long is an "average" fast once you're acclimated?

What do you mean?

>>40988948
Those supraphysiological doses aren't relevant to a natural hgh increase and all the physiological changes that would go along with it.

You are arguing that the HGH released during a fast plays no role in maintaining and even growing muscle mass? Why is the body releasing it then, for shits and giggles?

Lots of professional athletes use the eat, fast, eat method to take advantage of the HGH released. I would be happy to cite some for you.

>>40988990
Start drinking less and less coffee each day. Maybe supplement it with tea.
t. some guy that gets caffeine withdrawal after having caffeine for 3 days and then none for the 4th day

>>40989023
So if you eat at a surplus, don't you just gain back all the shit you lost? This doesn't make sense to me, but 18:6 (I know 16:8 is standard but I don't eat "lunch" until 2pm) has helped me with eating less calories throughout the day. Basically, I do 18:6 and only eat about 900-1300 calories, but I still make sure I get over 100g of protein every day. Is this wrong? If so, why?

Also, I thought the 2nd question was pretty easy to understand. I guess what I mean is, after you've done a few long term fasts, how long do you fast for on average now? 5 days? 10 days? Does it vary wildly? I need consistency in whatever program I follow. I need boxes to check, for my own neurosis.

>>40989023
>During feasting periods, you need to eat a lot. Otherwise you're basically just doing a calorie-reduced diet, which is shit.

Wut. But if you're not reducing your calories overall, then you're not gonna lose weight are you?

Do you mean, eat above maintenance on your "feasting" days, but your weekly total calories should be below your TDEE so you continue cutting?

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>>40989035

So endogenous and exogenous GH have different effects now?

GH has no effect on skeletal muscle hypertrophy, hyperplasia or muscle protein synthesis (studies cited >>40988766)

GH is lipolytic up to +/- 2 IU in which case the free fatty acid/glycerol metabolism of a fasted state peaks out. I.e burning all the fat your body can handle at once.

GH is required for hepatocyte growth and cell proliferation which is brought about by IGF-1 and MGF pathways - this *may* increase muscle protein synthesis via other pathways however without AAS in the mix it's unlikely to have any effect, as confirmed in the studies above (done on natural subjects).

Systemic IGF levels increase which is important for vast amounts of body processes, most of which don't affect athletes more than anyone else as they are generally autophagic/overall health improving functions. As we get older obviously our GH levels decline which drags our IGF-1 levels lower, supplementing or (as shown in the article you cited >>40988854) fasting at an age where it has declined can improve this.

GH has no effect on athletic ability.

>>40989098
>>40989102
No. Your metabolism will speed up to avoid gaining back a bunch of fat. It's more about the hormones than about calories - and by fasting, you are improving your hormonal profile.

>>40989098
>Also, I thought the 2nd question was pretty easy to understand. I guess what I mean is, after you've done a few long term fasts, how long do you fast for on average now? 5 days? 10 days? Does it vary wildly? I need consistency in whatever program I follow. I need boxes to check, for my own neurosis.

But the great thing about fasting is its flexibility. If you feel like you need to lose more fat, fast more. If not, just stick to 18/6.

>>40989035
>>40989137

So basically, what I'm saying is that you need to cite some studies that disprove all of the ones I have provided here. Otherwise you're just parroting common mantras.

I fast from 5-9am every day but my issue is when im hungry im super grumpy and hangry. What did you guys do to counter this?

>>40989154
I'm losing an average of .6 lbs a day right now (mega fatty, 328 -> 296 in 55 days), and I'm OK with that for the time being I guess. I do think I will give the long term thing a try soon though. I just got a gym setup at home, though, so I want to do some lifting first.

>>40989169
5 pm or am?

4 hours ain't a fast bro.

>>40989169
are there any refined carbs in your diet? if so, replace them with unrefined ones and natural fats.

>>40989206
-.-
comon you dweeb pm of course

>>40989137
Listen I realize that you are an academic, your write well and your sources are on point. But you are using too much medical terminology for me to follow, I am doing my best here, I'm trying to learn. That being said:

I don't think it is fair to compare doses of GH to naturally produced and released GH. There is a lot more that goes into making it effective than just one hormone being released. Your line:

>GH is required for hepatocyte growth and cell proliferation which is brought about by IGF-1 and MGF pathways - this *may* increase muscle protein synthesis via other pathways however without AAS in the mix it's unlikely to have any effect, as confirmed in the studies above (done on natural subjects).

can be used to support that claim.

>GH has no effect on athletic ability.

I find this very hard to believe, but I will have to research it in the meantime, which is exactly what I'm off to do. Thank you for the constructed bantz, I'm here to learn.

>>40989213
woops woops my bad im an idiot 5pm-9am""""

>>40989228

The image I posted in >>40989137 has links to the studies in the far column if you want to peruse them.

I'm all for helping you learn, that's why I'm sourcing my claims and showing you information where you're incorrect, so you can be better educated on the topic.

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>>40988250
Who else fasting for /Jesus/?

>>40989230
>>40989213
I was about to go apeshit lol.

I used to be a grumpy asshole all the time, but it was due to other shit going on in my life (hiding shit from my wife and lying to her all the time). Once I did a week of 18:6, the hunger didn't really bother me (or wasn't even really there anymore), so just keep going anon. You have to stop obsessing over food so much that it affects your mood. That shit is in your brain. Tell your brain to fuck off and get over it.

>>40989297
But like the stomach pain is what makes me grumpy and its not like i want to be.

>its 2017 and people are still trying the nigerian diet lmao

>>40989349
I think you'll find that Nigerians have limited access to sea salt and clean water.

>>40989154
>Your metabolism will speed up to avoid gaining back a bunch of fat
You are one persistent troll. Your body loves putting on fat, it's a security blanket for times of famine. And people fall for this faggots bait

>>40989040
I've heard that tea is a good supplement for coffee. I'd give it a try, but I really don't see the big deal in drinking coffee. It tastes good to me and makes me feel good. Are there any really bad side effects?

>>40989332
How long have you been doing daily IF?

>>40989401
about 2 weeks

>>40989276
I appreciate it. I'm reading this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439518/

Its seeming more and more that you may be correct. I cannot find anything that GH increases muscle mass, but there is a correlation of GH deficiency and muscle loss. Not sure what to make of it, my brain hurts. I'm still reading.

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Would SARMS be the ideal thing to take during a fast? I would prevent any muscle wasting.

>>40989405
It will get better anon, just stick with it. I'm like 2 months in, and I don't even think about lunch until like 2pm, sometimes it's like 4pm.

>>40989405
I found that stomach/hunger pains went away around week 4.

I've started making my eating window less and less (down to 4 hours now) and I only get the occasional fit of stomach growls. And even then, it doesn't hurt like it used to. It's more an annoyance than anything.

>>40989405
Oh, also, if you're not, drink LITERAL FUCKTONS of water. It really does help.

>>40989276
>>40989417
Ok, I fucking get it now, dude. I think.

HGH is important in the MAINTENANCE of muscle and bone mass. Therefore it would make sense that it is released during a fast, to minimized muscle and bone density loss. How do you feel about this? Am I on to something?

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I am interested in this extended fasting. Recently I decided I need to cut a bit (13% bodyfat atm), but I wonder if an extended fast is beneficial for me. I do loads of cardio (running, boxing, muay thai) much more than weight training. I train 1-3 times a day. Right now I'm doing a very light form of intermittent fasting. I eat 3 meals basically and my fast lasts about 14 hours. My meals are timed so that I have energy to complete my next workout, but if I would do an extended fast, I would be too weak to perform these workouts well. Last time I tried training where I hadn't eaten anything yet for the day, my workout suffered dramatically. The only thing feasible is a light jog or light calisthenics.

Is there a way to work around this, or should I just forget the idea of an extended fast?

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I have low blood pressure and have passed out more than once because a blood rush when I stand up. I am 6'6 and 230lb, I do cardio twice a week. Anecdotal evidence suggest that I am more likely to pass out when I fast.

How can I work around this? How can avoid blood rushes when I fast?

>>40989551
if you are dead set on losing some fat, i'd suggest trying to shorten the eating window to 6-8 hours and eating 2 meals instead of 3.

>>40989296
I am.

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>>40988885
>lose consciousness
insomniac here , that sounds relaxing
kek

>>40989551
Once your body acclimates to the fast you will be running on ~2000 calories of body fat a day. You can get plenty done on those calories. I am on 65 hours and I am feeling amazing, I've been stretching and doing random exercises with my barbell and pullup bar while I monitor this thread.

Coffee would help you a ton, while you are fasting, to get the energy you need to exercise. Do note that you will likely not GAIN any muscle mass during a fast. You will benefit from minimizing muscle and bone density loss as well as staying in cardiovascular shape. I hope this helps.

Also 13% is pretty low to do an extended fast. But I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. Just try to minimize muscle loss as much as you can by following the advice above and researching more on your own. Good luck!

>>40989578
lmao

>>40989564
I do not know anything about this, my man. My kneejerk reaction is to say don't do it. However, if there is down-time in the thread I will dig into your situation.

>>40989619
I got ya. I've fasted before and haven't had issues. Its just when I go hardcore I run into problems. I didnt think about saltwater though, it might help.

>>40989619
>>40989564
Apparently your BP actually drops during a fast, go figure. Salt can help increase your blood pressure by helping you retain water. So I would say, if you fast, drink a lot of salt water. You should 100% talk to a doctor before you start one though. Your situation seems quite volatile.

Do I take my suppies while fasting?
multi, vit D, zinc, etc.

I have potassium and salt covered.

>>40989573
Seems like a good approach. Slowly decreasing the eating window and eating a meal less is what I'll do.
>>40989599
Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind if I ever decide to do an extended fast.

>>40989750
salt for sodium
epsom salts for magnesium

i read that potassium supplementation can be dangerous (and is unnecessary when fasting)

Nearing 24 hours and actually feeling pretty good. I know 24 hours is not much, but last time I did this I felt like killing myself

Maybe it's the salt?

>>40989834
electrolytes definitely make it easier. how long are you fasting for?

>>40989874
gonna try for 3 days, then break the fast in the morning, which will be like 72-80 hours total

>>40989888
good luck.

>>40989834
Your body is becoming more accustomed to burning body fat. Glad you're taking it so well. If you make it to 3 days you'll find that the ghrelin induced hunger pangs start to fade away. You might just end up saying fuck it and keep on going


>>40988715
>>40988789
I will have a before and after picture uploaded here in the next 30 minutes to an hour, hopefully.

>>40989958
>You might just end up saying fuck it and keep on going
with the insane appetite that I've always had, it would be a miracle lol

>>40989958
also
>If you make it to 3 days you'll find that the ghrelin induced hunger pangs start to fade away.
Do you mean the stomach rumbling/aches? Because that's never bothered me, it's more mental for me. I'm just addicted to food, whether I'm actually hungry or not I want to eat for the sake of eating. I wonder if that goes away

>>40989551
Yeah. Why go with the proven and well-researched standard approach of eating below maintenance on a varied diet, when you can just try one of the newest meme diets which promises better and faster results.

>>40990097
Maybe he doesn't want to tank his metabolism? Just a thought.

>>40990088
The grumblings and aches went away for me after day 1. But I found my mind always drifting toward food and I'd have to bring my focus back. Today I've thought about it a couple times but the craving is getting easier and easier to defeat.

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>>40990097
>newest meme diet
>dates back 6000 years

>>40988250
Alright, so a few questions

Would it be ok to water fast 5 days of the week and eat my weekly calories in 2?

If so, in the days I do eat, would it be alright to eat before going to sleep or 1-2 hours beforehand?

Can I drink coffee and tea(without sugar) during a fast?

As a heavy smoker(1 pack+/day), would smoking while fasting fuck up my stomach or some shit?

I have a fucking workout routine.
Basically lift and cardio days.
What do I do now if I want to fast long times?

>>40990429
>Would it be ok to water fast 5 days of the week and eat my weekly calories in 2?
holy shit man

so say your weekly cutting calories are 14,000 total (2000 a day), you're gonna eat 7000 a day?? da fuck.

>>40990767
I like having an extra full stomach. Sleep better as well.

>>40990164
Remember how fit and active people were 6000 years ago?

>>40990131
>eating is bad for your metabolism

This is the new /fit/.

>>40990793
Me too, so that's why I want to fast a long time so I can eat a LOT in my non-fasting days... but won't that many calories be uncomfortable? It'll be like a calorie challenge or something lel

How many would you be eating in a non-fasting day?

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>>40990853
I have to get roughly 1250-1500 a day for my weight(I'm not a skeleton, but I'm sedentary); so that means 4375-5250 a day if I'd fast for 5 days.

As for eating that much, if I'd actually stick to that, I'd try to strike a balance between caloric dense foods and what I usually eat(meat, eggs and dairy products being my favorite foods).

>>40990966
damn, must be pretty sedentary. i don't move much either, besides going to the gym. I could eat around the same amount as you to cut, but I don't know if I could stick to 5 days fasting. Might go for 4.

I only feel satisfied if I can finish eating basically stuffed. I don't know what's wrong with me lol. I'd love to just eat a few steaks and a tub of icecream on top so that's the main reason I'm trying this.

Ffs if I went to a doctor this would probably be classed as an eating disorder

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>>40991112
>I only feel satisfied if I can finish eating basically stuffed.
Same. And I think it's only normal since our early ancestors used to hunt for days on end and then lavishly feast once done since they didn't know how to preserve the meat for long term storage.

Anyhow, pic related is how I currently look. Wouldn't mind losing a few kgs, but overall I am content with my bf%.

>>40990164
Yeah, and paleo claims to date back tens of thousands of years. doesn't make it not a meme-diet.

>>40991166
>And I think it's only normal since our early ancestors used to hunt for days on end and then lavishly feast once done since they didn't know how to preserve the meat for long term storage.
That's probably true. I wonder why a lot of people, who don't count calories either, seem to be happy eating average portions and not wanting to stuff beyond that. Meanwhile I've always wanted to just go complete apeshit on the fridge. IF only made it worse since it got me used to stuffing myself lel

Anyway good luck anon, if there's a similar thread to this in a few days let us know how that 5 day fast went.

>>40991202
>>40991202
>I wonder why
Prolly out of habit since that's how they were raised. I always ate mostly meat and wasn't too fond of the likes of bread and vegetables, but nowadays since I've go to uni, I eat meat, eggs and dairy products in large meals almost exclusively.

>Anyway
Thanks, anon. Will do.

>>40988350
>>40988417
wait wut
salt is ok?
and sodium is not?
wut
wut

>>40988711
that ain't true anon, there is a reason why people with diabetis II are only allowed a small amount of drinks with artificial sweetener

>>40991166
You're happy being above 20% body fat?

>>40991761
Until I get some muscle, yeah. Don't want to be some twig that'll get blown away by the wind.

My ideal is bearmode anyhow.

>>40991166
LMAO. Is this what people who advocate fasting look like? You look like shit bro.

Fucking retard pajeets and punjabs advertising fasting. I fucking kek'd so hard when I saw that picture. I thought generally FIT people were posting this shit. Not some skinny fat retards that are "motivated" to be fit.

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>>40989575
>>40989296
there are jesus freaks on 4 chan !
next thing yer gonna tell me is there are girls here too !

>>40991926
>people who advocate fasting
Haven't fasted, only plan on doing it, m8. And yeah, I know I look like shit.

>>40992052
dude forget fasting. START WORKING OUT you fucking cunt. fucking hate faggot cuck boys like you that ask way too many questions and talk way too much instead of just fucking DOING IT.

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>>40992074
I keep telling myself that I'll start hitting the gym.

>>40992086
What the fuck is actually wrong with you? I remember when I wanted to start working out and getting more fit, I literally started with the gym before nutrition and everything else that came with it.

You're literally paralyzed by inaction. You're a lazy, lonely, pussy boy that just comes to 4chan for meaningless conversations because you don't have any friends.

>>40992127
Nobody to go with, so I'd have no clue how to start out.

I know that's just an excuse, though.

How to break a 3 day fast? With what food?

>>40992139
You're socially retarded. If you're not comfortable doing anything by yourself, then you should kill yourself.

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>>40992155
kfc obv.

>>40990807
Quite dense, aren't you? I meant that eating - but not to the point of satiety (which is what you suggested) - is bad for your metabolism.

>>40989530
>>40989228
>>40989417
>>40989530

HGH's role depends on context.

In the context of a fast, it stimulates the body to break down fat for energy and preserve muscle mass.

In the context of a standard diet, it increases muscle mass through sarcomere hypertrophy.

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>>40992155
This is actually a really good questing I haven't considered too much.

http://www.wikihow.com/Break-a-Fast

I need to read-up more on this. Thanks for asking.

>>40989296

All day, my dude. He helped me find purpose.

.. Anyone have any questions I'm back and monitoring.

>>40992782
Yeah thanks. I was way wrong and I'm sorry for misrepresenting the science in the OP. Learned something new, though.

>>40989394
I don't think there is anything wrong with coffee, but I try to keep my tolerance for all substances as low as possible. So if drinking more and more coffee doesn't bother you then keep going, I don't see why not.

Plan: when i get my hand on albuterol i will start a cycle of albuterol and fasting. I want to lose as much fat as i can in 1 week.

>>40988632
From a thermodynamic point of view CICO is 100% right. If you expend more calories than you put in you should lose weight. What i want to know is if i fast will ii lose fat and retain more muscle than if say i do a normal cut?
That's what interests me. I could starve myself 1 week every month to lose 3kg each week.

>>40988970
That's incorrect. Think about it. If you're fasting there are no calories going in. You need to take energy from somewhere OR DIE. So there's no "fat deposit mode" while fasting, you either use fat or you body has no fuel to burn.

>>40993227
I have heard that you lose a lot of muscle on a cut, aka counting calories at a deficit. That seems to be the consensus.

Fasting, however, has the advantage of HGH being released. HGH is very important in maintaining muscle mass and bone density.

I would love to see a study comparing the two but I have yet to find one.

>>40989564
salt

>>40989564
E P H E D R I N E
P
H
E
D
R
I
N
E

There is no proof that CICO is how the body operates. It's a myth perpetuated by the health industry to get you to buy "healthy food".

>>40993279
There may not be any calories coming in, but that doesn't mean it won't fuck up your hormonal balances. It is shown that the slightest insulin spike can stop autophagy right in its tracks.

Saying "fat storage mode" was just a misnomer to identify a much more complex system.

>fast for 72 hours
>eat very small meal to break my fast
>eat whatever I want during one meal on the next day
>eat one normal meal the next day
>fast again

the fat is melting off me brehs

I've posted this about 20 times on this board in the past few weeks for the people who are worried about their gains.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leangains/comments/356gyl/results_with_pics_of_my_accelerated_lean_gains_cut/

>>40992139
READ THE FUCKING STICKY.
You go to the gym, talk to the cute girl at the counter, tell her you want to pay for a subscription. She will tell you how much it costs. Give her the money, don't say thank you, she's clearly fucking a nigger. You go to the locker, change into your pussy suit, you go to the power rack, put the bar on and start squatting with an empty bar, do that 3x5, then you go to the bench and bench the bar 3x5, then you do the other exercise SS says you have to, i forgot. You come back 2 days later, do same shit, but you deadlift instead of squat, son. 2 days later, when it's squatting time you add 10lbs, same goes for bench and OHP.
YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT. Don't forget to eat a lot and sleep a lot..

>>40993342
Fucking meme asshole. Ofc it's CICO. It's basic physics.
The only things hormones are good for is regulating your mood and metabolism, if by any means you have an iron will power you can struggle when you have no energy and still do some cardio to lose more fat. Die in a fire for being stupid.

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>>40993370
When I read this I am overwhelmed my man. It makes it all worth it. I'm so happy for you, keep it up dude.

I'm coming up on 72hr in 15 min.

>>40993448
CICO is 100% real. Its just mis-represented. There is an underlying dynamic of weight gain and weight loss mechanisms that are completely lost if you simply say calories in calories out. Thermodynamics is still the law, we're just trying to expound on it.

>>40993368
I'm new to this fasting thing, do you people starve yourself to lose weight or restart the immune system or wth fasting does?
Genuinely interested in the losing weight and keeping more muscle than cutting aspect of things.
Let's say i starve myself for 1 week, my BMR is about 1900 calories, i need about 500 more just to go to work and come back home, maybe if i force myself into doing some cardio i can ramp it up to 3000 calories per day. Can i lose 21000 calories that week and retain more muscle then say cutting for 42 days on a 500 caloric deficit?

>>40993485
I still have the impression some people here thinks CICO is a meme. And it really pisses me off.
>inb4 someone trying to trigger me

How much muscle loss prevention there is compared to losing the same amount of fat but with a normal cut (500 caloric deficit)?

>>40993492
So, when you fast you have to acclimate your body to burning fat. It will be rough the first day, 2 days, depending on your diet.

If you are already eating a high-fat diet then your body already know what to do.

Once your body is acclimated your body will burn about ~2000 calories a day, a little more than half a pound.

HGH is released at around 24 hours, usually spiking each day when you wake up on the fast. It is great for maintaining muscle mass and bone density. You can also reduce losses by exercising. You will know how much you should exercise, just listen to your body.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

>>40993492
>>40993552
Also, depending on your BMI, you may want to consider intermittent fasting. I can give you a rundown on that as well if you're not familiar.

>>40993552
I will try a 7 day fast with albuterol and coffee. These should give me the energy to do shit. I'll also keep some sugar on my in case i feel like i'm about to die because of the low blood sugar.


>>40993579
i've done 5 3 1 and put on more fat than i wanted to and i want to just get rid of it and go back to lifting shit. I'm 75kg with about 20% bf

>>40993542
I'm actually trying to answer that. Another anon is asking.

>>40993419
is from a helpful anon

>>40993227
>>40993323

>>40993614
That's actually a very novel and original idea. Sounds like you don't like fucking around. I'm not familiar with albuterol but make sure its black coffee if you do have some, its completely fine on a fast.

As far as the sugar, it will fuck up your autophagy gains, but only as long as it takes to fully deplete the glycogen and resume fat burning.

Depending on how physically demanding your job I think you'll be just fine. You may want to acclimate yourself to the fat burning first because the first time you fast it can be quite brutal. Again, that depends on how much fat in your diet prior to starting the fast.

>>40993630
>Strength increased on most exercises throughout the month, except for bench press and OHP where I lost a bit of ground.
How is that possible? He must have been on gear.

>>40993660
Albuterol is a b2 mimetic used in people with asthma as a bronchodilator. It promotes fat loss via beta 2 receptors in the fat cells. It also is a pretty good stimulent, like ephedrine and coffee.
Check this out http://www.steroidology.com/forum/burning-fat/636355-albuterol-lose-fat-gain-muscle-enhance-endurance-heavy-hitter.html


It's not a steroid.

>>40993666
I've answered this question so many times, forgive me. Read this though, it is a great article on a common question. If it doesn't help I will give you my attention:

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-mass-fasting-part-14/

>>40993687
I mean, I did a quick google and I can't find anything. As far as what I've researched thus far I'm getting no red flags. Just be careful and listen to your body.

I've been mixing 2 fasting days (Monday and Wednesday) into my week. I do IF the other 5 days. Only 2 weeks in now and feeling and looking good. Might try to go M,T,W fast next week to see if I can do it. It's funny because when I wake up the day after fasting I don't eat until noon. Most days I'm not hungry and need to force myself to eat.

>>40993687
>>40993727
Drink lots of water and some salt water. Never hurts and can only help. Water is mandatory.

>>40993727
Albuterol is the brand name of salbutamol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salbutamol

>>40993690
I read this and it sounds logical. Btw i'm 8 months away from getting a medical degree so what he says there is very logical. If you think about it, primitive people must have had days, maybe weeks without food during the winter. If the body ate the functional tissue(muscle) how would they have the strength to go hunt again? First eat the fat, then eat the muscle.

Thanks for the article. It's 3 am, i wouldn't have read it if it werent for you.

>>40993748
Water, coffee and MAYBE some salt (i've got idiopathic high blood pressure, this will give me the answer if it's from high sodium intake or an exagerated response to normal sodium intake).

>>40993801
Hey man grats on the medical degree (almost). That's quite impressive. If you really like medicine let me refer you to my hero. Dr Jason Fung. He is just the most brilliant person, humble, and honest. He's where I got these fasting ideas from, he's literally curing diabetes without using any medicine, just fasting. Its beautiful.

I'll link his short version, but he has a 6 part series on the aetiology of obesity, its 7 hours long and I've watched it all and some of them twice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk

>>40993860
Type 2 diabetes is know to be manageable by restricting caloric intake or a keto diet. But type 1 has a completely different ethiology, it's autoimmune, some event triggers an autoimmune response against beta inslet cells in the pancreas and kills them. I'll read everything in this thread tomorow, now i have to sleep or i die near my computer.

>>40993922
Night, dude.

>>40993860
Also, thank you, i can't wait to get my MD. >>40993929

>>40993932
good night (i can't go to sleep now if i don't say that, you were nice to me).
Have a nice day.

Stop being a water fast pussy and get on my level. Did a 20 day no food just plain water fast 2 years ago.

>>40988250
>Don't be a cunt

Is it summer already?

>>40988250
Been fasting for the last 3 years. I can almost see my abs brehs. Here's hoping year 4 I finally hit it.

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>137 hours of fasting
>thingken of avocados

>>40996400
Considered ending my fast today, but fuck it. I NEED to lose this belly.

>>40994614
>Stop being a water fast pussy
>Do a water fast
Am I reading this right?

>>40996400
I'm on 80 hours. I woke up hungry AF. We're in the shit, man. I don't plan on stopping anytime soon.

>I NEED to lose this belly.
This is me every time I look in the mirror. Its like GET OFF ME.

>>40996820
I have pseudogyno, or maybe real gyno. I need to starve my man boobs off. If it's real gyno i'm cutting myself with a knife.

>>40996865
Well god I hope its not man. If it is just use peroxide and a kitchen knife you should be good to go.

>>40996820
>>Stop being a water fast pussy
>>Do a water fast
>Am I reading this right?

Kek. I think he meant stop being too pussy to do a water fast... maybe?

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>>40996883
I hope so because I spent 5 minutes re-reading it.

>>40993342

Yes it's exactly how the body operates. The thing is is you maintain a caloric deficit, your metabolism drops so your calories out drops because youre energy expenditure lessens.

You become sluggish, low energy, sickly, weak... But you still don't lose weight because you're not outputting much despite taking less in.

CICO still holds true.

If you fast, however, supposedly your maintain your metabolic rate even on a caloric deficit so that your expenditure stays the same and thus you continue to lose weight.

>>40988250
Anyone fasting with GERD/acid reflux?

I fast during the weekdays and train on weekends, currently pretty satisfied - can't train very hard because other medication I'm taking so at least I'm motivated to cut.

But I get massive flareups of acid reflux especially on Sunday/Monday. I bought licorice tablets and hoping that this will help.

>>40996871
If it is i'm buying a surgical knife, lidocaine, broadspectrum antibiotics, povidone-iodine and lots of prayers. I have no idea what to do with the resulting scars...

>>40996932
Just tell chicks you found a helpless bearcub in the woods and nursed it back to good health.

>>40996930
Are you contemplating fasting or are you already on one or?

>>40996865

You can tell if it's pseudo because there's pretty much no tissue underneath the nipple.

That's how it was for me. I had big puffy nips and 'gyno' which was actually just me being chubby and not really realising it.

I dropped a few bf% with IF. Now I have normal nips. Get them cold and get them hard and then if it looks like you've got normal pecs and nipples it's pretty much pseudo.

>>40996930
This might help. Sorry, I didn't really pay attention to the answer because I don't have gastric issues.

http://www.fastingtalk.com/8-cholesterol-keto-vs-fasting-for-fat-burning-autophagy-causing-pain-gastritis-adrenal-issues-fasting-with-a-gastric-sleeve/

>>40996954
Like I said I already do alternate days IF (5 days fast 2 days refeed, I'm 3 weeks in.

>>40996981
Sorry dude, just woke up.

I don't really have experience with it. Found some stuff though:

>Ginger tea, ginger ale, chamomile tea and broth may help minimize acid indigestion without derailing your fast.

Also the article says to stay away from ibuprofen, aspirin, and acetaminophen because they fuck your stomach up on an empty stomach.

Nothing I've searched for says you shouldn't fast though. Sounds pretty rough, sorry dude.

>>40996956
I always read there has to be a hard shit underneath the nipple. There isn't a HARD shit, but there is something soft and different from the other tissue. I saw somewhere that if you have gyno there has to be some discharge if you squeeze the nipples. I almost tore them off to see if it is discharge, there isn't. I can't go to a doctor for this cause i have no money for a mostly pointless appointment. He'll likely refer me to a psychiatrist.

>>40997024
Yeah already found advice like that, thanks - hoped that someone had similar experience.

I drank ginger, chamomile and licorice last week, replacing licorice with tablets because of the potential of side effects.

Also staying away from coffee because it triggers GERD like mad cunt

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>>40997056
Just imagining you furiously milking yourself just made my morning.

>>40997069
yeah, man, it's the bane of my existance. Atleast it made you happy, cause it's making me miserable.

>>40997066
Have you symptoms improved at all? Some rumors on google of people reversing GERD but I'm assuming that's too good to be true.

Do I get fasting "benefits" for doing 24 hour fasts. I´ve seeing good results and been shedding fat this way for the last month.

At the moment I´m 23 hours since my last meal. It´s my off day from training so I might as well go to 30 hours. These kinds of mini-fasts are very easy in my opinion, does 24 hour fasts give any hormonal benefits?

>>40997086
I'd rather lose a tooth by manual extraction with pliers than have gyno...

>>40997091
Yeah definitely. Whatever works for you. You'll basically get all the benefits but just not as steadily and quickly. A pretty cool thing you can do with your situation, though.

At around 22 hours your HGH is spiking on a fast. So you can train super hard before your next meal and reap the benefits. I hear a lot of athletes take advantage of this hack. Its called the warrior diet, I believe. Going to try it as soon as I get lean.

>>40997089
Not really - it started flaring up since I started IF, hoping supplementing with probiotics will help.

Just reaching 40 hours. Yesterday was easy, today I can tell it's going to be harder. Hoping hunger pangs stop tomorrow. I've noticed that I've stopped craving junk (which I normally crave like crazy even when I'm not cutting), and I now really just want fatty food like steak, chicken, and a massive salad. Fruits and nuts too. Seems like the fast is making me want natural fatty food.

Just got done with my lower body workout too. Energy was absolute shit, felt very weak. Don't feel like fainting though which is nice, must be all the salt helping.

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>>40997154
Hell yeah man. Basically you've reset your insulin resistance to a healthy level, at least to some extend. The body doesn't need that shit anymore! You've literally just cured pre-diabetes. How about it. Good luck with the hunger pangs.

>>40997168
Feels pretty good brah! I never thought it was possible to not want chocolate or chips all the time. I could control my urges, but it wasn't nice always wanting that junk food.

I found myself browsing Instagrams of fucking fruit bowls and salads and steaks and shit.

I hope this lasts

>>40997188
Oh man. I don't even want to talk about food right now because I'll definitely trigger myself or someone else. But ya I hear ya. We're getting mad will-power / discipline gains the longer we go. Good for the soul.

>>40997218
Shouldn't bubbly water help with food cravings? It expands the stomach stimulating the satiety sensation? I think it's ghrelin mediated by the distention of the stomach.

>>40997287
Very interesting. I might run to the store later and grab some. Sounds like you just chug a bunch until it sets off the stretch receptors in the stomach.

My only concern is how long will the fullness feeling last.

>>40997313
and bubbly water usually has minerals disolved in it helping with losses during a fast: magnesium, calcium, sodium, phosphorus. It's also more satisfying than plain water.
Question: can i chew on some cinnamon?

>>40997330
I ate about 3mm from a cinnamon stick, that's about 1/6th of a teaspoon, will that throw me out of fasting mode?

Check this out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamaldehyde

>>40997287
>>40997330
Yeah, I've heard that sparkling water is excellent for curing hunger pains. Haven't tried it myself though, I don't really like sparkling water.

>>40988766
>>40988948
>>40988988
>>40989137

Thank you albfag for BTFO'ing this chump, and pulling those research papers so we don't have to.
What's your background, medicine/biochem/biomed?

Ok, so i just decided to do this, actually 9 hours ago.
I have NO hunger at this moment.
I ate only that cinnamon i said, about 1/6th of a teaspoon. I bought some mineral water and some decaff cofee so i can drink at night too when the hunger will be bad. Wish me luck, 41 hours left.

>>40997881
9 hours is nothing. i'm on hour 42 and it's turning into hell.

still, i'd rather power through hell for a month than eat barely anything every single day for 3 months.

>>40997907
You have to start somewhere, also i miscalculated, last time i ate was 15 hours ago. I feel you brah, I'd rather force myself to not eat anything for a week than eat like a fucking rabbit for 3 months. I enjoy eating without counting shit. Buy some decaff, drinking that makes me feel so good.


I hope there's always a no food thread.

>>40997953
>I'd rather force myself to not eat anything for a week than eat like a fucking rabbit for 3 months.
Yeah for some reason I find it easier to just not eat rather than eat very little.

There's something very depressing about looking at your calories for the day like "...oh, so I have...a salad and 100g chicken breast today". I'd rather avoid anything to do with food for 3 days, then eat normally for 4.

>>40997907
>>40997953
>>40998075
Plus, this is a lot more natural than calorie counting.

anyone noticed any odd side effects of fasting?

>require less sleep
>intense, vivid dreams
>more talkative

>>40998253
>require less sleep
This, strangely. I can get by fine on 5 hours when normally I feel sluggish on even 8

How long should I run a fast? What''s optimal? Currently 38 hours in.

What happens if I fast but dont exercise? Im fairly fit, wanna get my bf% down for summer vacation.

>>40998253
>>require less sleep
Yeah this also happens to me even on IF

>>40998561
>>40998273
Is this a thing?
Can someone explain why?

Hi guys, had a few questions from a newb pov.

Used to be fat and weak, picked up weightlifting but didn't care about my diet at all so I've put on muscle but I still have high %fat.

Would an extended fast help? I've been doing keto/IF for a few days now, feeling alright and less bloated, with a fast around 16/8 period.

Can you still train at the gym on an extended fast? What would be better, strength or hypertrophy?

>>40998720
>Would an extended fast help?

it can't hurt.

>>40998720
>Can you still train at the gym on an extended fast? What would be better, strength or hypertrophy?

yes. strength. your performance will suffer, but it should go back to normal when you start eating.

>>40998253
>>require less sleep
nigga fasting makes me sleep 16 hours a day, when normally I barely need any.

>>40998791
you're doing something wrong.

>>40998787

Thanks bud. Will try to incorporate 48/72H fasts in between clean keto meals.

Is it better to eat a big meal at night, or in the morning.

>>40998909

I'd say it's better in the morning as your metabolism is faster but I'm not sure. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can reply.

>>40998844
good luck.

>>40998909
eating in the morning will probably leave you hungry for most of the day.

>>40988799

> this is the same guy that will argue keto is the only viable diet

19 hours in and a headache started.
Took my bloodpressure, it's higher than it already is. I have 140mm with 70mm now it's 150mm with 70. Motherfucking diseased body.

>>40998540
Its all up to you my friend. I have a feeling that a longer fast has "deeper" autophagy gains. Thats 100% speculation though and nothing I've read backs that up, heh.

>>40998549
>What happens if I fast but dont exercise? Im fairly fit, wanna get my bf% down for summer vacation.
You lose everything that exercise would normally do for you. Cardiovascular shape, muscle and bone density have a higher chance of dropping but really insignificantly because your body is already producing HGH.

>>40998720
>Would an extended fast help? I've been doing keto/IF for a few days now, feeling alright and less bloated, with a fast around 16/8 period.

You would do great on a fast, you are already on a fat diet, so switching to fat storage wouldn't be so rough.

If you want to train on a fast, don't expect to gain muscle mass, although I've heard it's possible. I'm still lifting on my fast, I get sore and the muscles heal in the same amount of time. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be gaining muscle.

The most important benefits of fasting are resetting your digestive hormones and activating the almost miraculous body function; autophagy.

>>40998909
>Is it better to eat a big meal at night, or in the morning.
Whatever works for you and keeps you going. There might be differences but they are insignificant. When I was on IF I ate a big fatt meal at night, helped me go to sleep.

>>40998791
Dunno about other peoples experience but I have this issue for the first 1-3 days then it becomes the same as other people have mentioned where I need less sleep, maybe it'll be the same for you

>>40999046
Yep, don't worry if you don't make it. Just keep trying. It took me a few 24 hour fasts before I was actually able to commit to an extended one. Every moment your body is in the fasted state you are healing tremendously. Take it nice easy and slow, I don't want anyone to be over-zealous and have a bad experience.

How many calories can you eat without breaking the fast?
Can i add cinnamon to my coffee?
Can i add 2 table spoons of milk?
Can i drink the juice from 1/2 lemon?The pectin in lemon helps with the hunger pains.

i take daily fasts of 6 hours between my meals, is that enough?

>>40999269
Do you pray to jesus while fasting?

I went on a 3 day fast last week and i haven't pooped since. What do?

I cant speak of extended fasting, but I've followed IM for years now and wouldn't go back,

Food between noon-7, fasting until noon the next day

>>40999249
I would actually like to know more about this. I do know that the slightest change in digestive hormones will stop autophagy dead in its tracks.

I would really try to stay away from the milk in the coffee, but that is up to you. It will stop autophagy for up to 6 to 12 hours. Your body will not burn fat until all of the energy from the milk is burned away, so that really shouldn't take long and hardly effects your weight loss in the grand scheme of things

The cinnamon should be fine if used sparingly.

As far as the lemon juice goes It should be 100% fine in theory. I use lemon concentrate in my water every now and then, I like the taste. It doesn't contain anything that would throw a fast off its tracks. I can't find any direct studies on lemon concentrate and fasting, though.

>>40999273
yes I am an orthodox christian and not a degenerate

>>40999269
No. It takes about 6-8 hours before you burn through all of your glycogen stores, depending on what you have eaten. You also want to give yourself ample time after that for your body to burn fat. It depends really on what your goals are, but I would at least have a 12 hour+ fasting period if you're trying to lose any weight at all.

>>40999296
I have a 1 inch cinnamon stick, I chew on it. The pinching sensation it give in my mouth kinda dulls the hunger.
1 teaspoon of cinnamon has 6calories, that should not effect anything.


Can someone compile a complete fasting guide? How to, benefits, tips, q&a, the science behind it.

>>40999329
I've been meaning to do something like this. Something more /fit/ accustomed. I haven't really gotten around to it, I mostly like making these threads and monitoring them. Its therapeutic for me. We will see, it is a great idea.

Here is a great video, about 35 minutes, explains a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk

>>40999317
can you explain more a bout this glycogen store stuff? I want to go on that PSMF diet but scared about losing muscle, what is your opinion on PSMF?

>>40999353
Why are you spamming this guys videos? Are you trying to sell his books & videos?

>>40999364
Glycogen is the way body deposits carbs for immediate use. Your body breaks down glycogen to produce blood glucosew which you use for energy. You have about 500g of glycogen stored in your muscles and liver. Once that is gone, you body only has fat reserves for energy.
Glycogen is supposed to store energy for about 12 hours.

>>40998253
This. I couldn't even sleep last night and I had a more vivid dream. I also feel super focused and clear. I'm on my 50th hour.

>>40999364
I have no idea what PSMF is but I can do a quip on glycogen stores.

The problem with obesity is that people forgot about fasting. Literally everyone that is overweight has an insulin problem. That is, you can almost gaurantee that insulin is the underlying problem of why people are gaining weight.

Insulin is released into the body every time you eat and is responsible for the storage of fat. If you eat too many times throughout the day you never allow those insulin levels to drop and your cells develop an insulin resistance. This causes you to crave higher insulinogenic foods (i.e. carbs like sugars, cereals, bread etc). This again, raises the insulin levels, increasing the insulin resistance, and on and on. It is a vicious cycle.

When you haven't eaten your body instead goes for the glycogen stores for energy. Only once those stores are depleted can the body switch to burning body fat, and that is what we're all after, reducing body fat.

This is a very crude, lamens term heavy explanation of it. Hope it helps.

>>40999379
He knows infinitely more than I do about fasting and I happen to have incredible respect for him. He's basically giving a giant middle finger to all the assholes keeping us sick and selling us bunk medicines. The hospitals, the food industry, they want you sick and addicted to food. Its all about the money. Like Dr. Fung, I could give a shit about the money, I want to help, I don't make a single dime. What I receive is priceless.

>>40999429
>>40999393
thanks it makes sense, back when I used to fast I wasnt as hungry as I am now where I am supposedly bulking yet every time I eat I get hungrier and start craving carbs more.

I am going to start my PSMF tomorrow and see how it goes

>>40999486

It's just fasting & only eating a small protein focused meal.

It's quite a miserable diet, but it works.

>>40999486
If I were you I would keep the fats in your diet. They are very good at making you feel full, that is they are very satiating. They are also, despite what the government health organizations would have you believe, very good for you. They say eat carbs, don't eat fat. Every item in the super-market says LOW FAT! Like its a good thing. Make sure they are saturated fats if you do and not trans fats.

Having a fat heavy diet also makes it easier for your body to switch to fat burning mode, as it is more accustomed to fats already.

>>40988250

>increased energy
>better moods
>feeling of calmness
>reduced food craving

I think that pic is confusing 'fasting' with 'eating'.

>>40999540
Short term yes, eating will temporarily give you those feelings. It is like giving a heroin junky his heroin.

Long term, however, on an extended fast you will have balanced your digestive hormones. You will have strengthened your mind and be sharper and have reduced brain fog. You will not crave food so much, especially the wrong foods.

It is a matter of deferred gratification. Get your heroin now and feel good? Or detox yourself and be miserable for a week so that you can live a healthy life in the future.

>>40999540
I think you're wrong

>>40988417
Too much salt is bad for you. Nutrition major here specialising in diet and chronic disease. Debate me faggots

Most people should aim to have under about 2g/day

>>40999731
You're confusing sodium with salt. Salt is 38.75% sodium, the rest is chloride.
you should aim for 2000mg sodium per day, or 5g of salt per day.

>>40999731
Salt increases blood pressure, sure. Not by a significant amount, about 3%.

It also reduces renin and aldesterone which is good for you. Salt is directly linked to mortality rates and myocardial infarctions. That is, the less salt you have, the higher your mortality (you die earlier).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAGrUwE8zpY

>>40999731
low salt increases the risk of heart attack.

>>40999758

jokes on you i get my salt by chugging water with added elemental sodium and inhaling chlorine gas.

>>40999811
>Elemental sodium in water

>>40999822

> inhaling chlorine gas

>>40999828
No, let him do that, maybe it helps.

>>40999089
Healing from what? During a fast I am weak, tired and hungry. It helps me with my deficit and strengthens my self control but what is it healing?

>>40999892
insulin resistance

>>40999892
Oh man, so many things. There is an important function called Autophagy, last year the guy researching is received the nobel prize.

It basically cleans out all of the damaged old and dying cells and replaces them. Its an opportunity for you to break down all that shit and renovate.

I'm talking brain gains, muscle gains, organ gains. You fucking name it, let me find some links.

>>40999947
>>40999892
There are tons of links but here is a great article by Fung himself:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-autophagy-fasting-25/

>>40999528
I already have done that mistake unfortunately, I was morbidly obese (maybe?) 3 years ago at 270 5'8 and went on a reckless suicide cut with no fats. The results was indeed weight loss but I also made myself low-testosterone in the process. I fell for their meme and got fucked in the process

>>40996400
Decided I'll end my fast tomorrow, at the 168 hour mark. I could probably go longer, but I've been thinking about food a lot and it seems mentally unhealthy to keep fasting. Plus I don't want next week's lifting sessions to suck.

So do any of you guys fasting also lift heavy?

My concern here is that fasting while working out will impact my body's healing process between sessions. I'm starting to love the fasted workout I get on IF but I'm curious about doing a 24/h fast as well. If there are no nutrients available for my body to heal itself, though, won't the muscles just suffer?

>>41000629
I think the best thing would be to eat on training days and fast on rest days.

>>41000629
I've been lifting, not extremely heavy, but moderately. I get as sore as I'd expected and heal in the same amount of time. This is just me personally, here's a great article on it:

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-exercise-fasting-23/

>want to be skinny
>was never really muscular, never really cared about being strong
>people constantly give me shit for not lifting while I do IF
why cant people just be normal looking, why does california either have to be anorexic or bodybuilder? why does everybody feel the need to constantly tell me their opinion on weight training after going to the gym for 2 months?

>>41000879
People love extremes, it's either black or white for most

You do you man

File: Goal Body.jpg (94KB, 500x350px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 500x350px

>>41000879
I life for functional strength and martial arts. I don't want to have to take any shit from anyone. I don't want to have to cower when things get heated. Looking good is a nice bi-product, and nothing more.

That's my perogative. Other people lift for other reasons but they definitely shouldn't impose their philosophy on you.

48 hours in and I want to die. I just want a massive steak or cottage cheese or something, not even carbs. When does this get easier? I thought around 40~ hours it was supposed to get better.

would fasting for 48 hours with 1 day of cardio be a good idea? these would be my rest days

I caved at the 24h mark. My fucking family made food that smelled so good and my asshole father sent me a video of a guy making something to eat(dont wanna say what so i don't influence you guys too).
It was my first time, i guess 24 hours is still better than nothing.

>>41001560
The first time I tried IF I only lasted 14 hours. Slowly build that up to 20, then did 3 24 hour fasts (at different times). Just finished a 48 hour one and it's not too bad.

Baby steps man, no need to throw yourself in, or you might cave in and binge.

>>41001601
I didnt binge, i ate a normal dinner. I drank a lot of water to make sure i'm full.

File: Capture.png (241KB, 456x367px) Image search: [Google]

241KB, 456x367px

>>40999758
I wasn't confusing sodium and salt, I was just using them interchangeably as most people do because I didn't think /fit/ was clever enough to know the difference

>>40999793
Sodium is linked with hypertension (increased blood pressure), yes, and it seems to have an almost linear dose dependent response. Over a chronic timeframe (years-decades), most people consuming too much sodium will develop high blood pressure, and most studies show that the more they consume, the greater an increase in blood pressure they get. Yes, there also *seems* to be a natural increase in diastolic blood pressure as people age, but in tribal societies and places eating a more 'natural' diet low in sodium, this doesn't seem to be the case. There are cases of some people groups that have made genetic adaptations over time to eat more sodium (innuit people, many japanese), but for the general population, rules about limiting sodium to below about 2200mg/day still rings true. There are also people who seem to have exaggerated negative reactions towards sodium (african americans) and they need to especially be mindful about sodium consumption.

Also the thing about blood pressure, is as blood pressure raises, it doesn't seem to ever come down. The best dietary trials seem to have lowered it by like 2 or 3 mm/mg, and the best statins and medications seem to lower it by a fairly insignificant amount as well as having other adverse side effects. Once you raise resting blood pressure, it's generally near impossible to get it to come back down to normal, so you want to avoid anything that may potentially (and in the case of sodium, does, and there's a wealth of evidence supporting this) raise resting blood pressure.

Also refer to pic related for a pleb summary if negative effects from chronically high sodium intake. Natriuresis (peeing out the excess sodium) takes its toll on the kidneys, high blood pressure takes its toll on the cardiovascular system, etc

>>40999797
Citation needed

>>40999793
>>41001990
Oh and one more thing about the renin and aldosterone thing. This is a ridiculous claim and one that I've never heard before. The renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system is finely regulated and unless you have some other health problem, should be completely capable of maintaining homeostasis. This is like saying 'muslces are bad, they use up testosterone which is necessary' or 'moving is bad, it uses up dopamine which makes us feel good'

Ya silly goose

Would it be okay to eat one day, then fast the next, and keep cycling them like that?

>>40999446
Dr fung pls go

I don't know why but it feels so much more amazing fasting for a few days then breaking it by indulging in steak, oats, whatever, than eating "moderately" every day. Maybe this is disordered thinking, but getting to eat so much and still be cutting is great

>>40993860
>He is just the most brilliant person, humble, and honest
I dont know about the humble part, he seems like a dick

>>41002071
Yeah, it's called alternate day fasting and it's one of the more popular protocols.

>>41002891
If anything, it's more unnatural to try to moderate your intake each day.

>>41001990
>studies show that the more they consume, the greater an increase in blood pressure they get.
1. source
2. high blood pressure is not inherently bad

>I don't care about sodium in take of tribes, they aren't industrialized and their diets are much different

>There are also people who seem to have exaggerated negative reactions towards sodium (african americans) and they need to especially be mindful about sodium consumption.
Source. Let me guess they have higher BP, what about mortality?

>Also the thing about blood pressure, is as blood pressure raises, it doesn't seem to ever come down.
Again, hypertension is not inherently bad. Its a trade off because studies show lower mortality the more salt in your diet.
Source: Salt and Mortality: NHANES II
I'm quoting the study here: The inverse association of sodium to CVD [cardiovascular disease] mortality seen here raises questions regarding the likelihood of a survival advantage accompanying a lower sodium diet.
Raw data from NHANES I, II, and III all show low sodium = more death.

>high blood pressure takes its toll on the cardiovascular system, etc
But there are questions regarding less amounts of salt and increased CVD.
Source: The New England Journal of Medicine.
And I quote: The benefit of reducing dietary sodium for lowering the risk of cardiovascular disease has been questioned because some studies have also linked low sodium intake with increased CVD risk.

There seems to be a major problem with confirmation bias in studies done on salt intake. Most studies find "questionable" conclusions on salt intake vs. mortality rates and CVD. And the only ones you hear about are in favor of lowering salt, the ones that show negative effects of lowering salt simply aren't published.

>>41002967
Considering that to his understanding doctor's are literally killing their patients with bad advice, I'd say he's taking it pretty easy on them.

How do you people deal with the headaches? They cripple me.

>>41003405
I love hot showers. If that doesn't work I take a nap. I try to stay away from pain-killers because I believe in listening to the body and letting it heal itself. Also drink lots of water and salt water.

>>41003331
>Source that sodium intake is associated with linear increase in BP
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/65/2/626S

>high blood pressure is not inherently bad
Ok.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa003417#t=article
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/docs/guidelines/jnc7full.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8439223

Also: http://www.bmj.com/content/339/bmj.b4567.full

>No association between hypertension and CVD
You're quoting one observational study here which represents just one community likely with a similar gene pool. There is plenty of stronger, contradictory evidence to this claim and I wouldn't take too seriously. Also, much like the reason some studies have shown overweight people to live longer, this is due to people being in 'at risk' categories for disease such as the overweight or the hypertensive are typically treated much earlier and more carefully than the healthy population. If you're spending half your life in hospital, you've got a better chance at living a long time than someone who is not, simple as that. I'd guess (without reading the full study) that this is just one population with some kind of genetic variation that means they require slightly higher levels of sodium in their diets, doesn't represent the majority of the human race.

>There seems to be a major problem with confirmation bias in studies done on salt intake
I don't think you're keeping abreast with the literature here m8. Instead of questioning people who know more than you, I'd generally just heed their advice. This is why climate change deniers still exist

>>41003405
take a bit of salt

>>41003800
Show me the studies that salt in-take increases mortality, or the inverse, and we'll talk. High BP is bad, but there is obviously a trade-off in mortality. I don't care about studies on non-industrialized peoples. I want studies on people that are within the same country.

>>41004434
Please actually read the studies I linked, or at least skim them haha

>>41004434
>http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/65/2/626S
Also literally the first study I linked says 'The INTERSALT results, which agree with findings from other diverse studies, including data from clinical observations, therapeutic interventions, randomized controlled trials, animal experiments, physiologic investigations, evolutionary biology research, anthropologic research, and epidemiologic studies, support the judgment that habitual high salt intake is one of the quantitatively important, preventable mass exposures causing the unfavorable population-wide blood pressure pattern that is a major risk factor for epidemic cardiovascular disease.'

This is from a large scale meta-analysis with over 10000 people from 32 countries in a highly respected journal. Now if you're trying to argue that CVD has no impact on mortality, then I think I'm done debating you m8

>>41004555
Yes, hold up there breh. Give me a minute to digest all this so I can rebuke.

>>41004555
The intersalt studies I'm familiar with. The problem is that they had 4 outliers from primitive societies that skewed the data. You get rid of those outliers and you actually see a correlation in the other direction. That is, in the developed world, you see a decrease in CVD the more salt intake.

I'll skim your other studies. I admit I ignored them. I'm kind of being a cunt but I've realized that and I've reminded myself that I'm here to learn. Cognative dissonance is a bitch.

>>41004628
I appreciate your honesty and friendliness mate, all good brother.

While we're being honest, I admit that I haven't read the INTERSALT study in a year or two now, but from memory, I don't recall these 4 'primitive societies' you speak of. Even so, that is why reading the discussion section is important because expert researchers are allowed to draw conclusions based on their highly qualified interpretations of the data, and the discussion here says that there's basically no question of the association between sodium consumption and CVD.

I have more studies if you'd like to read them. I like that you're coming here with an open mind and I can tell that you're trying to learn, just think you're not approaching this in the most scientific way possible and are displaying a bit of your own confirmation bias when the majority of the literature and the medical and nutritional communities agree with the sodium-hypertension hypothesis and hypertension is near universally agreed to be a significant risk factor for CVD

<3 u anon

>>41004691
You are accurate with the confirmation bias. I have a huge 'fight the power' inclination every time I hear a government agency is for something I always do the opposite.

I appreciate the bantz man, don't worry about the articles if you don't want to but I will be back here in the morning to read any additional posts and answer questions. For now I'm destroyed, had a really long day on a fasted metabolism, going to sleep like a baby.

<3 and g'night.

>>41004748
U r a cutie anon. I'm right about sodium, but you're still a qt

Sweet dreams big boy <3

How often and how long should I fast? I'm a student and I work a decent bit as well. I'll usually hit the gym each day on my way home from uni or work, monday-friday. I'd like to have some energy to fuel my lifts.

Would fasting each weekend be a viable option? Would it hurt my recovery? Will it be enough to see benefits? I don't want to make myself miserable half ass committing to something.

>>40988632
This. Fasting has been shown to have harmful long-term effects on your body.

>>40988637
That's not true. Historical records have shown that fasting had detrimental effects which is why the practice has been done away with.

>>40999312
>Christian
>Not degenerate

Pick one.

>>41005130
Sources, links, studies. Please provide them. Not just the person I'm replying to, but anyone. For the sake of knowledge, if you are able to prove any negative effects of fasting please provide it. From my personal research, I'm inclined to believe otherwise. I have not encountered a single resource that supports your claim.

>>41005210
Apparently you didn't read the thread, because three anons already did.

>>40988250
Hey OP, I want to see if I have this fully understood. I have a few questions.

When am I able to eat at all, and around how many calories if so? If not, then I have to stick completely to water and coffee?

I do strength training 6 days a week, and also do cardio about 45 minutes daily. Anything I should worry about?

Thanks in advance

And I guess... that's it? I'm worried about getting hungry but I suppose if I force myself to chug a lot of water, then that shouldn't be a problem.

This thread is full of the most retarded rock-headed fucks.

>>41005320
you're a fucking idiot lol

Question, are you allowed to take fish oil/softgels that contain oil during a fast? You aren't supposed to get ANY calories during a fast or it fucks it up, and an Omega-3 pill is like 20kcal for 2 pills, will that fuck up your cycle.

I'm just water fasting now, and not too terribly concerned with not taking my vitamins for like 4 days, HOWEVER, my yohimbe is either in a liquid form contained in grain alcohol, or ain a softgel pill made of gelatin, and possibly containing oil in it.

I REALLY don't want to fuck up the cycle on day 2 of a 4+ day fast and have to start all over again, where could I read more about this?

reposting here

>>40998253
Better sense of smell is a funny one and its not just a little better it's very noticeable

I imagine that fallum gum or w/e it's called is useful on a fast so you can keep stimulating your jaw muscles and also occupy yourself with something similar to eating since fasting can be pretty boring

>>41007305
Falim gum, and yes, although the constant high saliva production (you can literally chew it for 12 hours and notice) supposedly increases hunger pangs for some people because it primes the stomach for food intake. Never noticed anything of the sort myself though.

>>41007584
*and not notice