Any good ohp programs for intermediate/advance lifters?

mon
5x5 ohp

wed
1x5 ohp

fri
5RM, 2x3 or 1RM

>>40920701
did you really just recommend a pseudo-texas method for pressing gains? piss

>>40920688
Greg Nuckols 28 Free Programs 3x Int Medium or Int High or 3x Adv (these are bench programs, but you can just replace the benching with OHP and it will work just fine)

Sheiko with OHP instead of bench

anything with 3x a week frequency and high volume will do it

>>40920820
Why is Texas method bad for presses?

>>40920701
in my very unprofessional opinion, low reps isn't very good for OHP. Or I should say, you can/should do it, but don't make it all you do.

In my experience, for whatever reason, when I do 5 reps with OHP it just doesn't feel like I'm getting anything done. It's good to do low reps for strength and getting used to higher weight though

not a lawyer btw

>>40920853
thats why you cycle rep ranges on intensity day.

you could probably do this till you aren't an intermediate anymore. You could definitely press 225 with this training method.

>>40920820
okay, no gains for you

>>40920688
Do 5/3/1, one of the main lifts is an OHP

>>40920845
a few reasons

1. The most important thing for an intermediate lifter is to expand work capacity (ability to tolerate and recover from volume) and gain muscle mass. These are both accomplished through training with increasing volume. Texas Method constrains the lifter to a very short one week cycle to get enough volume, recover, and showcase the adaptation. By making the lifter peak at the end of each week, TM necessarily restricts how much volume can be used (because you must peak and display strength each ID, you cannot be significantly fatigued on this day) and therefore hinders your work capacity and hypertrophy development.
2. The volume actually isn't all that high, just distributed in a stupid way. By clusterfucking all the volume into one session, you end up with only one productive (maybe destructive is more like it) session, and the other two days are spent recovering and hoping to peak in time for ID.

If you go to the SS forums, you'll see that TM has even fallen out of favor there (which I was pretty surprised by). Mark Rippetoe himself has said that for most people, TM is not a good option.

In my experience TM works incredibly well for some, and not at all for most.

It might work very well if:
1. Talented (can recover from volume quickly)
2. Early intermediate, not truly done with LP
3. Talented (don't need a lot of volume for adaptation)
4. Talented (would have made gains jerking off with ankle weights)
5. Talentbolone Acetate

For most people, TM with a heavy caloric surplus will get them a few weeks of consistent progress and leave them spinning their wheels after that. Most people would be better off with higher volume programming with real periodization (at least a monthly scheme).

If you don't believe me, go to the SS forums and search for "texas method bench stall".

>>40920893
>he's not a talent chad
lol, just do TM 4 day then you old man

>>40920912
I ran the 3 day TM years ago, made no gains. Ran the 4 day, made no gains on anything but squat.

Longer periodization and a lot more volume is the way to go, I'm convinced. Also didn't help that I was only getting to do deadlift, my favorite lift, for one set a week.

Pissening deadlift programming, Rippetoe.

>>40920936
his squat is a hip dominant squat, so doing deadlifts at high intensity is hard as well. 1x5 at 85% is a lot.

Eventually I ended up splitting the deadlift up and doing 1 set of 8 up to the knees or 1x8 from the knees.

Bench started to stall after 3 months. I rotated reps every month, but honestly i just wasn't willing to gain any more weight.

but yeah, you could probably press 225 in under 6months on TM

>ohp

fuk dat

klokov press and face pulls

find a flaw

>>40921023
>but yeah, you could probably press 225 in under 6months on TM

nani?

starting from where?

>>40921053
135 - 155

>>40920688

no they fuck up your shoulders

especially if you do it twice a week

dont fall for the fucking retarded meme

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>>40921077
OHP is a meme? da fuq? Bench seems way more shoulder fucky than OHP too, or rather, you're more likely to fuck up the shoulder-safe form with bench than you will with OHP

I press slightly over 2 plates Ohp. Ama

>>40921096
yeah this, ohp is more gentle on my shoulders tbhfam

>>40921137
give me your programming, it's my current goal as well

>>40921023
you almost certainly couldn't unless you have a lot of talent

>>40921275
then try harder. you aren't fooling me

>>40921137
>bw?
>years lifting?
>programming to get there?

>>40921292
you aren't fooling me, either

a 225 overhead press is pretty damn rare, suggesting most people can hit it in 6 months on a program that is as poorly reputed for pressing and benching as TM is pretty ridiculous

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>>40921436
225 - 135 = 90lbs
90lbs / 5lbs per week = 18 weeks ~4.14months

>>40921023
>but yeah, you could probably press 225 in under 6months on TM

Shoutings

>>40921053
kek

>6 months to reach OHP that 0.000001% people ever reach during their entire lifting careers

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>>40921680
wow, you guys are WEAK. back to /plg/ i gooooo

>>40921616
yeah sure, 5 lbs a week progress on OHP

seems legit buddyboyo

>>40921197
I run the texas method for a few years now. Except I do my deadlifts after squat on friday. Before that just the regular stronglifts program, which I kept running long after the lineair progression stopped.

>>40921400
About 115 kg. Been lifting since summer 2010, had a few injuries which set me back though.

I found out that the placement of the bar in the hand really helps a lot. Try putting it at deep as possible in the hand, so that it's as close to the wrist as possible. Then focuss on squeezing the bar as hard as possible, so that the wrist doesn't move the slightest. Also squeeze Abs and glutes

>>40920688
HOIW LOW DO YOU HAVE TO LOWER THE BAR ON OHP?

barely past chin or all the way to nipples.

>>40923335
It should touch your upper chest/clavicles.

>>40923036
what kind of gains have you made on TM in the past years? if it averages out to a lot less than 5lbs a week, you need to reconsider your programming

you would be making much better gains with a higher volume, longer periodization program

>>40923412
>my program is working great for me
>NU-UH SHEIKO IS BETTER FUCK OFF

>>40923462
what do you define as working? if your progression rate is slower than 5lbs a week on squat and deadlift, TM is probably no longer the right routine for you

i said nothing about Sheiko programs, as those don't contain the overhead press :^)

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>>40921034
>face pulls
It hardly feels like anything, I literally have to put dumbells on top of the weight machine's weight and do 20 reps to feel my shoulders get exhausted

>>40923508
rear delts are little baby muscles, hard to feel them working

try rear delt raises maybe

>>40923526
what about just doing the behind the neck press?

>>40923549
seems like a lot of effort just to train rear delts

>>40920688
hey, is there any reason to do standing OHP instead of sitting OHP? If I can push more weight on the sitting OHP

>>40923592
Sitting OHP might be bad for your spine. Standing OHP let's you use more mussles.
>protip: pick standing OHP

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>>40920688
Im working on one. If it's any good I'll post it in autumn :^)

But hey, there's a PDF called "quest for a stronger press" by Ringo Starr:
>press more
>6x3 + 1×10 backoff set

PS PUSH PRESS IS A MEME

>>40923036
>he can't lift his own bodyweight
>after 6 years of lifting

>>40923709
I'm 6'6" and ready to go on a cut

>>40923549
No press is directly targeting the rear delts because that is not their function. Anatomically speaking a row with your elbow at or above your shoulder will activate them most.

>>40923827
You're ready to go on a cut? Since when, 2015?
Post a pic of your delts, big guy.

>>40923891
2013 actually

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>>40923493
Then what routine do you recommend that includes ohp

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>>40921744
>he can't progress on 5lbs a week under 225lbs
lmao pls. Try harder

>>40920936
>I ran the 3 day TM years ago, made no gains. Ran the 4 day, made no gains on anything but squat.
exactly my experience except my squat exploded.

i have concluded, both from my experience and through the experiences of others, that the TM is fantastic for the squat but shit for the upper body. sad reality is that there simply isn't enough volume to go around. the upper body needs more than the TM, and SS for that matter, has to offer.

did the press emphasis program from lascek's ebooks when switched to the 4 day and didn't notice anythin good for my OHP. currently cutting after that disaster of a press routine.

moving onto greg nuckols 3x a week int med bench program for OHP. hopefully the volume and frequency are sufficiently high to yields good gains this time.

>>40921616
>5 lbs progress on the press for 18 straight weeks
sure. and i can do the same thing by adding 20 lbs to my squat for 18 weeks to improve it by 360 lbs.

>>40924364
>he can't progress on 3.792 lbs a week under 300 lbs

lmao, might as well kys yourself

>>40920688
good luck on finding a program

i hit ohp 2x a week with a intensity day and a speed/volume day. i also dedicate a day for bench presses to keep my body balanced

>>40924534
you only go up by 5lbs a week on TM you moron.

>>40921616
Actually, you only add 5lbs every other week because you alternate it with the bench press. So, it's around 36 weeks so around 9 months and you're most likely going to stall at some point and then you can either deload or turn the volume day into 8x3 and intensity day to 2x3 and progress for 4 weeks like that and go back down to the weight you stalled at and see if you can lift it now.

>>40924661
>thinking that the increments of increase on the squat is possible for The Press
if you can increase your press by 5lbs a week, then you are genetically gifted and are one of the few people that the TM is good for regarding uper body lifts. most people will not experience such large jumps even with religious eating. again, as a generally accessible program for improving OHP, TM isn't good except for people like you who could probably do anything they felt like and stil get stronger.

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>>40924746
>mf while i read your post
ARE YOU DUMB?

>>40924770
ok big guy, you clearly have zero knowledge of the abilities of most people.

if something works for you, it works for you and not necessarily for anyone else. and i can tell you right now that increasing your OHP by 5lbs a week is totally unrealistic to most people. hell, even rippetoe in PPST says that your press maybe only increase by 1lb a week, never mind fucking 5.

>>40924807
well then try harder lmao

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>>40924842
">jus work hard brah, eye of the tiger XD"

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>>40924860
idk what else to say

>>40924873
i was only bitching at you to stop recommending TM to guys wanting to improve their OHP. no h8 just ball busting

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>>40925064
thats how i did it..

Stop caring about your OHP and focus on bench instead. OHP is a meme lift that stalls super easy and you'll spend all of eternity to get a 2.5lb PR after 2 years

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>tfw can only OHP 37.5kg, 40 with bad form
>tfw my lower back has started aching when i do them
>tfw 6'6" so I bend like crazy
help

>>40925101
t. shit OHP back archer

>>40925145
squeeze your glutes as a cue to prevent shitty lower back position when doing it

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>>40920688

Here's some legit advice. I know olympic history and how weightlifters trained pre and post roids when OHP was a competitive lift. I also have a 105kg max single without gear.

>Basically they trained at mostly around 85% for 1-3 reps, at 6-12 sets with rest typically lower than you're used to at around 2min, across 3 (minimum) to 5 max days per week and tested max every 1-4 weeks before adjusting max to reflect the new weight.

>A typical routine from the pre-roid era that was recommended by the British Amateur Weightlifting Association for an intermediate:
>150lbs/67.5kg max press
>110 x 3x3
>120 x 3x3
>130 x 3x2
>140 x 3x1
>[Feel free to simplify to 70/80/85/90-92%]
>3xweek
>Source: 'Bodybuilding' by John Barrs

>Another inter from a top 50s weightlifting with a difference:
>Warm up - 3/2/2 (from 70% of max)
>Take a weight 15kg lighter than your max
>Do 10x1
>Add a set per session until you are doing 14x1
>Add 2.5kg, start again at 10x1 and continue until you stall
>Source: Jim Halliday 'Olympic Weightlifting'

>Another from a top 40s presser that is completely different to what you're used to:
>150 max
>100 x 5
>110 x 4
>120 x 3
>130 x 2
>140 x 1
>130 x 2
>120 x 3
>110 x 4
>100 x 5
>Source: Al Murray discussing Josef Manger's favourite pressing routine

>And here is a schedule so you can text your max:
>120lbs Max
>85lbs 2x3
>95 2x3
>100 1x3
>110 1x2
>115 x1
>120 x1
>ATTEMPT NEW MAX (2.5kg more) x1
>[Use 5m rest for max 2-3 for rest]
>Source: George Kirkley

>[If you're interested in a modern strength writer who does something similar Google Jamie Lewis and his 'Destroy the Opposition' book. He's clearly read/used the same sources in designing his template but does not attribute them directly in his book. 5/3/1 also uses similar thinking, but I've always found my pressing goes down when I do it. (Due to not enough weekly pressing - my opinion.) Though YMMV as few at my weight of 88kg are doing 105kg max presses.]

>>40924343
Deathpress

>>40924343
hepburn method, 5/3/1 (new), GZCL

>>40925260
thanks anon, i'll try it and maybe deload!

>>40925487

I'm dis kunt:

>>40925406

The Hepburn method, for those that don't know, is this:

>A. 4-10x1 (90%rm or 10lbs below/7 sessions/then add 2.5 for lower & 1 for upper/wu-50%x5, 60%x1, 70%x1, 80%x1)
>B. 4-10x3 (80%rm or 5rm/9 sessions/then add 2.5 for lower & 1 for upper/wu-50%x5, 60%x1, 70%x1)
>C. 5x3-5 (70%rm or 5rm/add reps to earlier sets first, i.e. 1st ses=5/3/3/3/3 5/5/4/3/3=/9 sessions/then add 2.5 for lower & 1 for upper/wu-50%x5)
>Done 2xweek M/Thurs for 3 months minimum & you progress through them as you stall

The problem with the above for getting a big press is that they're power focused. It's much better thn 531 and similar modern programs - which, due to OHP not being a competition left since 1972 has made everyone of our era completely ignorant of how to train the press: you need loads of 'stabilizing training' like I describe in my previous post over most of your training year to get a truly elite max.

2xweek in the press isn't enough for a big press. Ron Walker - the sick kunt in the pic I previously attached - trained 8x2 up to 3 times PER DAY for periods to achive his max press of 127kg at around 90kg bodyweight. PRE-ROIDS.

>>40925260
this, as well as try to stick your lower back out (not like really far out but this is a good cue to contract the lower abs since a lot of people don't know what it feels like including many lifters) and stick your chest out at the same time

>>40925644
i was referring to his 8x2->8x3 routine, which was the older one of his

slow volume expansion works real well for presses

i'm sure what you're saying works but 3x a day is not practical for normal people, unless you have a home gym

>>40925644
so what you're essentially saying is increase intensity and decrease volume throughout the week? at a relatively high intensity standard

its very similar to nuckols' 3x a week intermediate bench programs which he has stated are workable for OHP as well. the difference with his is that volume is higher.

appreciate the input though, thanks man. have saved your posts and will dig a little deeper around those names to see for myself. its the rare posts like these that make /fit/ worth coming to.

>>40925695

I'm not saying anyone needs to train 3 times per day. I don't. What I'm saying is that the whole weightlifting community has no idea of how to train the OHP. The idea of training it even 3 times per week is forgotten knowledge. It's a lift that defies most beginner, intermediate and advanced rules of volume/intensity/etc in 2017.

>>40925737
>so what you're essentially saying is increase intensity and decrease volume throughout the week? at a relatively high intensity standard

The Hepburn? No A-B-C are each indivdual programs to be done twice per week (M/Thurs with curl and bench and squat/high pull/deadlift on Tues/Fri). When you stall on C move onto B then A. This training put a lot of beef on me, but wasn't enough press training to increase my press.

Check out these websites foor old school press training:

>davidgentle dot come (go through the ebook section, the Hepburn book is there)
>ditillo2 dot blogspot dot come (google search it for press articles - loads of great content there)

The best bang for your buck books are by George Kirkley and Bill Watson. You'll fin d them for cheap on amazon/ebay easy.

>>40925406
fucking nice and screencapped

OHP is my favorite lift, there's just something about being able to press heavy weights above your head - my big goal of the next 1-2 years is to hit 2 plate strict and be able to progress near a 3 plate push press

>tfw forever mirin Klokov's 162 kg strict and 220 kg push press

>>40925991
2 plate strict is a goal of mine too.

justin lascek from 70s big had a 230lb C&P for a while and he's pretty responsive to comments and questions, maybe ask him how he did it

have any of you guys hit bodyweight OHP?
i'm 10 lbs away if i cut well enough or 20 if i keep the same weight.

>>40926094
>have good genetics
>train hard from day one
>get distracted by crossfit
>make a blog about '70s male lifting culture
>try to discredit everything Rippetoe does even though Justin would be a nobody without him
>write ebooks that don't have much advice
>try to convince everyone Crossfit is legit because they're paying you
>blog fails after a few years

>>40926122
yeah justin is a total mongoloid

>TM sucks shit for bench? better reduce the volume even more!
>keep your workouts under an hour, something something cortisol

>>40925773
honestly man if you look at most of the programming floating around 4chan and the internet, nobody has any fucking idea how to program anything, especially benching and OHP

it's all low volume or low frequency rippetard meme shit on forums now

3,4, even 5x a week for bench/press is best

to press a lot you must press a lot holds true

>>40926122
I didn't know Justin was such a piece of shit.

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>>40925406
You're giving out some really interesting info.
How, and how often do you train OHP yourself?

programming for a better press like ITT deserves to be added to the sticky

>>40926574

5 x currently. Been doing this for the last two weeks 3x with 5x5 (across) @ 50% seated press :

85kg x 3x3
90 x 3x3
95 x 2x2
100 x 1-3x1 (single @ 95%)

Will stop before, at, or push singles depending on feel. Testing max tomorrow at end of two week block.

Note that what I said previously is applied:

>Basically they trained at mostly around 85% for 1-3 reps, at 6-12 sets with rest typically lower than you're used to at around 2min, across 3 (minimum) to 5 max days per week and tested max every 1-4 weeks before adjusting max to reflect the new weight.

Beside this I snatch 2xweek, clean x1, c&j x1, front squat 2-3x when training olympic style. My snatch max is 110kg and c&j 132kg. I don't use squat style like modern weightlifters. Instead I split as I'm physically better built for it.

>>40926315
he' not, that guy seems to just autisticall hate him for whatever reason becausse people on 4chan are deluded

>>40925406
>Google Jamie Lewis and his 'Destroy the Opposition' book
Jamie's legit. /fit/ likes to shout shill anytime someone links chaos&pain but he gives solid advice.

>>40926939
>depending on feel
what does this mean? i have literally never 'felt strong' in my life, or if i did i didn't recognise it. i'm not storng but i surpassed 1/2/3/4 ages ago

Are handstand pushups any good, /fit/?

>>40927153
>handstand pushups
Yeah if you want to get really good at push-ups, but not really otherwise

>>40927153
can't speak for those but tsatouline holds the viewpoint that regular handstands are very useful to OHP because of the hand strength they build. he's big on having strong forearms in order to squeeze the bar harder for maximum stability

this is why i don't use a thumbless grip. my 5RM is 62kg though so don't take this as gospel, not that you would

>>40927126

I'll not do/stop the singles short depending on how hard it is that day.

>>40927153

Yeah. Google Paul Anderson. He did them as a SHW and was a great presser. No matter what the overtraining boogeymen say you won't kill yourself doing them 2x week on top of 3x OHP. Never done them myself as loading would be a nightmare and there are better accessories for OHP for me.

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>>40920688
PUSH PRESS > OHP

>>40927425
why not both faggot? I press for my push press and push press for my press

of course, push press is the more fun lift because it looks more powerful at big weights

>>40927425
this
I only do volume for strict ohp and periodize my push press instead

>>40927425
the one time i tried them i felt a clicking in my neck that caused my neck to go into spasm. couldn't turn it for 2 days. never doing them again.

Ive been stalling at 115-120 lbs strict press for 3 reps. I added in landmine one hand presses and I was able to get to 125 one rep strict. I just started adding in landmines but Im wondering if its a really good addition.

Anyone have any experience with them?

I'm stalling at 135lbs/60kg- any way to break through? Do another set after my third? Push presses at then end? Back off sets with higher volume?

>>40928641
probably any of those would help. also, increase frequency. OHP likes a lot of volume and a lot of frequency, hugely more than squats or similar big lifts

>>40926939
what's your front squat, out of curiosity?

Thank you for this thread guys. I learned that the Texas Method is not a proper approach to increasing my presses, but periodization is the way to go.

Work up to a max triple, should take more than a few sets. Then take 85% of that and push press it 5x10.

>>40920688
>tfw OHP is the only lift that I regularly progress in
It's a bittersweet feeling

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>>40920688
fucking stuck on a 70kg max on OHP for a year, it must be a fucking mental block at this point

>>40930883
that alone probably saved you like 2 years of banging your head against a wall

/fit/ is mostly shit, but not always shit I guess

>>40933054
you an alien breh?

>>40933386
how much weight have you gained? what routine are you doing?

it's either A. not enough calories or B. shit program or both

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>>40920820
>recommends Greg nuckols over Texas method

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>>40933990
>recommending texas method for presses

I press 220x5 at a body weight of 207-210. I really don't think it's that impressive but it seems some people here think so

My programming was 100% Texas method

Week 1: 5x5 + accessories
Week 2: 3rm or 5rm + accessories

Some things I did differently is I don't really do any back off sets or any other stimulation on my heavy days. I do that one PR set and that's it

Also, I microloaded like crazy which is a bit controversial since at some point a 1-2lb increase isn't a high enough percentage for stimulus (in theory)

For example, this is what my training looked like

Week 1: 5x5 170
Week 2: 3x1 190
Week 3: 5x5 172.5
Week 4: 3x1 192.5

Once I got to doing 5x5s with 190+, I actually modified my programming to have two volume weeks followed by one heavy week. My volume also got a lot more drawn out

Week 1: 5x5 190
Week 2: 5x1 195, 5x4 190
Week 3: 225x3

Worked for me. Took two years and I'm still getting stronger

>>40934043
video?

>>40933982
progressing on all lifts slowly but surely except for OHP, I've been doing 3 times a week full body programs, and for the heavy lifts like OHP and bench I've been doing reps like 5/3/1, I've recently started doing more high volume on OHP like 3x10, I think it's getting slowly better that way desu

>>40934073
volume works for press and bench more than anything

>>40934043
>My programming was 100% Texas method
>I actually modified my programming to have two volume weeks followed by one heavy week

you can't change the program in this way and then call it 100% texas method

nice press though

>>40934091
What do you think is the best rep-range for bench and OHP? because tbqh I'm getting bored of heavy reps

>>40934109
do a lot of volume in the 75-85% range with a rep range that allows you to maintain consistent technique

then do some lighter weight higher reps afterwards for hypertrophy reasons (you may want to also do variations of OHP for this part)

>>40934118
so like 3x8 reps with 75-85% of one rep max, and afterwards doing really high reps like 16 with light weight to finish of the muscle right? what if there's chest exercises with high rep ranges following after the bench press in my program like dumbell press on incline bench and dips? Should I still do those very light weight reps on the bench?

>>40934156
just off the top of my head, maybe you should do something hepburn method-esque

start with 8x2 @ 80%, build up to 8x3 @ 80% like so

2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2
3,2,2,2,2,2,2,2
3,3,2,2,2,2,2,2

etc.

one rep per session

do this twice a week, and then follow the main work with some pump work consisting of higher reps and maybe variations of the press that target weakpoints

if you shit the bed in front of your eyes maybe do pin presses on one day from a bit below that sticking point (sticking point at A means you lost velocity a little bit before A, generally) for example

as far as higher rep stuff, use this to build muscle

BBer style stuff, get fuck huge delts, triceps

>>40934175
8 sets of doubles? Weird

>>40934261
yeah it starts off easy but then at the end you are doing 8x3 @ 80% twice a week, which is a lot of volume

>>40934175
what about building strength?

>>40934350
what do you mean?

volume is how you build strength, low volume and high intensity is how you peak so you can demonstrate strength

>>40934357
for clarification, what would a low volume high intensity rep-range look like?

>>40934429
I would say anything from 85->100% is already fairly high intensity

something like 85% for 2 (easy) to 5 (very hard), 90% from 1 (easy-ish) to 3 (hard), 95% from 1-2

if you wanted to come off that hepburn-style routine and check what your 1rm strength is, you could do a week of 85% doubles on both days, then a week of 90% singles, then attempt a PR the next week

>>40934357
twice a week only for presses? has this been proven to work?

>>40934468
if you're that skeptical just make your own routine and test it out

>>40934495
i'm so desperate for press gains at this point that i'm willing to try anything, just thought hepburn was more commonly done for squats, bench and deads

>>40934548
what have you been doing up to this point?

if you ramp up the volume and eat enough anything should work

>>40934070
nah...i only have a video from me doing 205x3 like 2 years ago when i weighed 190. im too autistic to ask anyone to film at my new gym now. i am about 20 lbs heavier now

https://www.instagram.com/p/5aPSzosAtsFeLJmvEW2WtBEYaeHDa5a2WoXaI0/

>>40934568
fucked around with bodybuilding for a year, no gains obviously

then did some basic strength stuff, OHP once a week, stalled around 50kg

then tsatouline's russian bear routine, was OHPing 4 times a week, two of thos esessions being high volume, got up to 60kg x 5

then easy strength by dan john and tsatouline, back down to about 55kg for 5

then 10 months of TM with a press emphasis, got up to 60kg for 5 again

been cutting for about 6 weeks now after that and can't even do 67.5kg for 1 rep.

no idea what's going on with it. the rest of my lifts are high enough

>>40934649
>falling for the bulking and cutting meme

If you're natural, you will always have to reach a compromise between looking a certain way and actually being strong. You can be shredded if you want but you'll spend your life being 155-165 lbs and weak. You can be strong if you want but you'll spend your life being 200+ lbs kinda thicc and without abs but you'll be strong. The way I look at it, no one starts to even look big until youre pushing 185+

The only way around this is roids

>>40934770
i'm currently 190lbs, 5' 11. not the heaviest and if i cared to i'd push it to 200+, but that will take a while of mass building because i dont want to get fatter. already lost my abs. like i said i already have some basic strength (4.5 plate squat, 2.75plate bench, 5 plate DL and pull ups with 29kg attached for sets of 5) and have been working on that strength for years. those lifts have been pretty happy to increase when coaxed to...except fucking OHP.

are you familiar with greg nuckol's routines? i'm going to try the 3x a week intermediate medium volume bench routine but using OHP instead and see how that goes

>>40934770
bulking and cutting is not a meme

you absolutely don't want to constantly eat at maintenance if muscle gain is what you want, and you can't eat at a surplus forever without running into problems (and then have fun losing 50lbs, much different game than cutting 10-15)

meandering around at maintenance calories instead of cutting and bulking is what held me back more than anything in my 6 years of lifting

>>40934851
your OHP is pretty abnormally weak if you can bench 275 but not even press 135 for reps

>>40934915
tell me about it man. i can do 135 for 4 reps though.

>>40934935
i overhead press like once every few months (usually bench 3x a week) and I can still press like 70% of my bench max

i've found my OHP just comes right along with my bench, no need to even train it (probably a consequence of long arms - everything is a delt exercise)

>>40933386
add more volume, do more variations

so is 3x5 a meme?

>>40935192
It is not a meme, if it works for you, keep at it.

But past a certain point it probably will no longer work and you will have to adopt a different training regimen.

>>40928577

I'm the 105kg OHPresser:

>1. Get 0.5kg/1lbs ankle weights, drop 10kg and work up again using the ankle weights as inbetween steps. (By the way, microplates are a godsend for OHP.)
>2. Start pressing 3 times per week. You will not overtrain. You're on /fit/ so may be doing the 5x5/Bill Starr Bench/P/B/P style. It's no good for OHP as it isn't enough work. (That style of training, coincidentally, is simply a peaking program that was intented to get already trained high schoolers numbers up and isn't a OHP.)
>3. Do this:
>A typical routine from the pre-roid era that was recommended by the British Amateur Weightlifting Association for an intermediate:
>150lbs/67.5kg max press
>110 x 3x3
>120 x 3x3
>130 x 3x2
>140 x 3x1
>[Feel free to simplify to 70/80/85/90-92%]
>3xweek
>While focusing on form and feel of each rep
>Then test max in a month. (That week = 3x8-12 50% M/W and max on Friday) It will have gone up past 125. You can then choose to increase all weight by 2.5/5lbs and continue for two more cycles or move back onto wwhat you were doing.

>>40933386
>fucking stuck on a 70kg max on OHP for a year

1. Microplates.
2. You may have genuinely gone stale in the lift. Try seated barbell presses from 40% of your current 1rm or db presses from 1/4 of your current 1rm. Then work up from 70% of your 1rm.

>>40934468
>hepburn

Just to clarify, the Hepburn isn't a press specialization program. Hence only 2 sessions in 'power' ranges.

It's a very good program though that works along similar principles as 531. CTRL+F 'hepburn' I list all 3 programs further up. davidgentle dot com has the book.

>>40935192

105kg @ 88 bodyweight here:

For press strength: yes. 5 gets you out of the heavy groove you need for pressing.

History:

FWIW, 3-5x5 was only recommended for weightlifters as an off-season, peaking or accessory plan because of it. 5x5 doesn't actually come from Reg Park as Ripptoe et al ignorantly claim. It comes from British Amateur Weightlifting Associan head Al Murray who introduced it/used it as I state. Reg Park (who used 5x5 as 5x5-across, 3x5 work sets and 4x5 ramping with 1x5 back off across his career - with many more than 3 movements per day) nicked the methodology from him.

>>40937241
12 sets of OHP in one day?

File: bob1.jpg (10KB, 300x186px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 300x186px

>>40938496
>not doing 8 hour delts

>>40938523
lmao

>>40937241
thanks. im not having trouble with my OHP as of yet, but that will soon come. 5x5 truly is retarded for OHP, feels like unnatural for some reason.

just do it often with several different rep ranges.

keep your feet close together, contract glutes

>>40938496

It'll take a max of half hour if you use 2 min rests. You are not going near max and do not run the risk of missing a rep so resting more is unnecessary.

Add in 3 sets of rows, 3x squats and bi/tri supersets and you have a very good session that'll take you less than an hour. Especially if you are cleaning the bar each press set. (A power clean with a step back is recommended, which is what I do and will get any rep you can strict press up.)

>>40938496
did 10 sets of bench today

4x3 85%
3x6 75%
2x6 70% (close grip)
1xAMRAP 70% (close grip)

volume works wonders

>>40937362
and you said it added mass but not press strength?

aside from the program you just mentioned to the other guy and previously in the thread, do you know of any other press specialization routines? outside of PTTP/russian bear, i've never found one, and those dried up for me after 2 months.

thanks for the info dump too man, i'm sure many other people have read it and appreciated it too

>>40937241
hold on breh

so you do the same weight for a whole month, 3 days a week? what comes after the additional 2 cycles following the first month?

>>40940670
adding mass is adding strength

you cannot increase the cross sectional area of a muscle without increasing its potential to produce force

now, if you've been doing only hypertrophy stuff, you might not be neurologically efficient at hitting heavy weights, so you would need to train with heavy weights and then peak to hit a good max

but a bigger muscle is a muscle that has the potential (discovered through training heavier, getting efficient at maxes again) to produce more force and lift more weight

>>40940715
alright, thanks breh.

>>40940990
http://revivestronger.com/2015/10/28/the-bigger-the-base-the-bigger-the-peak-phase-potentiation/
http://www.strongerbyscience.com/powerlifters-should-train-more-like-bodybuilders/

you can read more about it there

Wait so when you guys say "higher volume" You mean more sets and not more reps? I always thought high volume was like 3 sets of 12 repetitions

>>40941177
volume can be thought of as total tonnage (sets x reps x weight), or number of hard sets

it's used pretty interchangeably but that second definition is probably more useful

when we say volume, we basically just mean amount of work done, which usually means more sets

>>40941242
what would the resting period be between sets, if you're doing 8x3?

>>40941289
hepburn says like 2-3 minutes iirc, lower end of that at the beginning and higher end when you're doing almost all or all triples

>>40941300
so should I be lifting heavy enough to just barely complete the 8 sets?

>>40941327
no

start with 80% of your 1rm for 8 sets of 2, this should be easy

next session, do 1x3. 7x2

continue until 8x3 is complete, then add 5lbs and do 8x2, then 1x3, 7x2, etc

a hallmark of good programming is not starting off as hard as you can manage, you need some time to gain momentum

>>40941355
What if I can do 8x3 right away at 80%?

>>40941385
don't, the program works because it waves volume over time

8x2 is mainly skill practice, lets you dump the fatigue from the 8x3 you just did the previous session and allows adaptation to be realized

>>40941422
This program is good for OHP too right?

what the fuck is periodization

File: Concurrent Starr Method.png (69KB, 590x833px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 590x833px

>>40920893
Here is a modified version of TM programmed concurrently. The volume is more than enough for an intermediate to develop work capacity and there is ample upper body work.

Some notes:
1. I split Day 2 into 2 sessions, one in the morning and one in the evening as the volume is too much in one session.
2. When you stall in the OHP or Bench then switch to alternate movements. For example push press/jerks/dumbbell overheads. There are plenty of alternatives for bench. Doing this allows for constant progress and reduces overuse injuries. This also goes for the squat and rows, switch them up.
3. Eventually you may have to drop a movement because you have reached a level of volume and intensity which you are unable to recover from. I dropped one back movement and rotated between chins and rows every 1-2 months.

TM in its base form is trash although the principles are sound. This is probably the best version of TM I have done and you can get a solid 1-2 years worth of gains if you rotate movements, take recovery seriously and increment correctly.