Keto diet

I'm doing keto Sunday-Friday and carbing up on Saturday. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not but it feels good to me.

>Did you feel worse or better while doing it?
I've been at it for a week now and this is what I've noticed:

1.) Almost never hungry.
2.) Waking up in the morning is easier.
3.) Falling asleep at night is noticeably faster.
4.) Less energy during workouts.

Overall I like keto and I'm going to continue to limit my carbs until I reach my goal body fat %.

You lose a lot of weight easily but if you're looking for strength gains it's really tough to keep them up. You'll also look flat as fuck

>>40919288
>Did keto work for you
Doing it right now. My weight loss went up and I experienced other benefits and read literature such that I'm gonna do it forever. Make sure to eat animal organs if you don't wanna lose your hair. They got the vitamins you need. Esp. grassfed. But I'm poor and was balding anyway so I just took the razorpill and keep my head shaved. Look much better now.

>How long did you do it for?

Been going for about 2 months now. This is the second time I've tried it. the first I quit because of headaches and cravings which made me realize I was literally addicted to carbs and sugar. Worked on that for 2 years and this time when I happened upon a pro-LCHF video that spoke about benefits I wanted I did it and didn't get any symptoms except I was hungrier for about 5 days after hitting ketosis. It's normal to get hungrier when you actually hit ketosis because your body hasn't adapted to actually using them. Pro advice: when you hit keto, put your deficit on hold and just eat maintenance or however much it takes for you not to be hungry for a couple days until your hunger goes back down. You will avoid a LOT of suffering.

>Was it easier to see fat loss compared to a normal lower cal diet?

Undoubtedly. I was able to soar through weight loss without hunger doing one meal a day too.

>Did you feel worse or better while doing it?

Better, across the board. Slept better, needed less psych meds, have better sustained energy throughout the day. Here is a LCHF playlist of videos I've found about the benefits of keto/LCHF the LEAST of which is accelerated weight loss. The first 6 videos are 5 minutes each and well illustrated. the first one is about athletic performance, the second is brain performance/energy efficiency. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH2uhJ2RmgYVETxvU_BCu1Xxb5dFt8xjj

Also, check out /fa/'s /thinspo/ thread because they are literally the best at weight loss advice. I spent a lot of time there until I decided to get thicc.

>>40919407
You'll still get strength gains, just not as much pump, which is superficial, because pump comes from storing glycogen (carb metabolite) in the muscles with water. It's basically the push-up bra of fit physique.

>>40919392
I didn't think that you could eat carbs like that and still be in keto.

Is there a point to keto if you're not looking to lose weight?

>>40919518
If you have cancer.

>>40919392
>carbing up on saturday
Fucking why?

>>40919518
Yeah, check out the playlist linked in>>40919421
it's pretty good and has short videos in the beginning (5 minute, single-topic, infographic-like videos) and longer lectures by M.D.'s

>>40919288

Done this about 3 times before, all varying lengths.

I found that you should do it for about 2-3 months minimum to be able to figure it out for yourself and see a noticeable loss.

1.) It did work for me very well, lost a good amount of fat and retained most strength. I did <30 grams of carbs per day.

2.) See above.

3.) It was easier in the sense that it was something I could "do". As in there was an end to it, once I lost the amount of fat.

4.) After the first few days/first week, I felt like I had very little energy but persevered until my body got used to it. The first few days is where you lose water weight (approx 3-4Kg).


It does get very hard with all the cravings but the good thing is, is that you can eat as much meat as you want to. But you have to be very strict and count all carbs. Also, it's best to get the carbs from vegetables as bad things happen if you don't get enough fiber.

Last thing you can get Keto Sticks which can show you if you are in the ketogenic state by measuring ketones released in urine. To make sure you are doing it right.

>>40919288
Keto is the redpilled diet. Literally works like magic.

Staple foods for ketards?

Also, how does it affect recovery?

>>40919288
>Did keto work for you?

I was already dieting. Switched to keto because I heard it reduces hunger. It worked.

>How long did you do it for?

Probably like a month. Eventually I got tired of not eating carbs.

>Was it easier to see fat loss compared to a normal lower cal diet?

Keto reduced my hunger and food cravings compared to a normal diet, so I'd say yes.

>Did you feel worse or better while doing it?

Better, but eating only low carb foods gets boring.

>>40919288
Just stay away from refined carbs. Stay away from processed meats as well. Eat everything as its found in nature because the industrial revolution fucked our shit up.

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM SUGARAY DRINKS AND ARTIFICIAL SWEETNERS. Study after study shows that your caloric intake goes up when you use these, even when they don't have calories. This is especially important for you sip boys. I'm sure there's more to add but I just woke up.

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>>40919549
>Also, it's best to get the carbs from vegetables as bad things happen if you don't get enough fiber.

You wut?
http://highsteaks.com/fiber/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

No fiber literally solves every intestinal problem for practically every person. Note: P = 1 means no change P=.001 means 99.9% of people improved.

>>40919549
Also ketostix are good initially but become worthless as your body stops pissing its ketones as much. Still in ketosis but with less urinary wasting.

you don't need to do keto to stop eating fucking sugar

>>40919601
Both sources talk about constipation, I experienced the complete opposite.

So if you don't want to ruin your bed sheets, I recommend eating vegetables for some fibre.

>>40919620
sugar is literally aids, I'd avoid it at all costs, as well as artificial sweeteners.

>>40919576
Probably about the same if you're getting the same amount of protein and adequate calories. It's better than a standard diet if you're comparing deficit recover time because when eating on a deficit on keto, you body can use your body fat to make up the difference. I heard about a study ( no link though) that ketoers who were doing resistance training on maintenance calories gained lean muscle mass comparable to restistance trainers on a standard diet eating 800 calories more. Again no link but it jives with all the other literature I've seen about how ketoers can eat more calories (controlled for protein) yet lose more weight, more fat, and retain more muscle.

Staple food for me is kerrygold butter. Staple website, cronometer.com because its goat for tracking keto macros because its got its own keto settings.

>>40919620
Ketones are where the benefits are. Just not eating sugar does little for the fact that insulin <<<< ketones.

>>40919622
Most people aren't mudbutts. Please realize this and think and speak accordingly.

>>40919590
>Study after study shows that your caloric intake goes up when you use these, even when they don't have calories

Well yea you Retard. Fattied think it's ok to slam down an extra mcdouble because they got a diet coke

>>40919636
>as well as artifical sweeteners

Seconded. Stevia makes me less satisfied when eating, hungry 8 hours later (I've been one meal a day for 3 months), and disrupts my sleep.

>>40919654
Just letting you know the possibility is there and advice from someone who has gone through it.

Do whatever you want.

>>40919640
Sounds good, I think fat is my favourite macro anyway. Thanks brah.

>>40919657
Yeah that definitely ads to it. It also fucks up your digestive hormones / glucose balances. You also don't get satiated by sugary drinks, in fact you end up craving more calories.

>>40919590
this

start with some fasting and eat nothing but unprocessed food

there's literally no reason to do any meme diet unless you have some kind of disease

>>40919726
>there's literally no reason to do any meme diet unless you have some kind of disease

Wrong.

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>>40919726
Fasting is the lost art and missing link in the western diet. When you fast your body gets to work restoring all your hormone balances. Don't worry about losing muscle mass, we have a storage system for a reason. Fasting has been a critical part of natural medicine since ancient times. Don't even worry about nutrient balance, although if it makes you feel better you can take a multi and drink water.

Adjusting your diet is about adjusting your hormones, not about how much calories you feed it. Its more about when and what you eat than how much of it. When you have healthy insulin levels and eat the right foods (>>40919590) your body will know when its had enough. You can still count your calories and all that because it still IS important, but it is not the principle causation of weight gain. The principle causation is insulin resistance. How to regain insulin sensitivity? Fasting periods, long or short.

>implying you guys will even read this, absorb it, spend 2 seconds researching it, and not reflexively deny it and scream CICO.

>>40919814
>Don't worry about losing muscle mass,
Frequent fasting will cause you to frequently rely on cortisol releasing glycogen from the liver and adrenaline in order to maintain enough blood sugar to stay conscious/alive. Cortisol promotes muscle wasting.[*]
[*] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC425032/

>>40920535
>Cortisol promotes muscle wasting.
[citation found]
>Frequent fasting will cause you to frequently rely on cortisol releasing glycogen from the liver and adrenaline in order to maintain enough blood sugar to stay conscious/alive.
[citation desired]

>>40919288
https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/

Read the right bar.

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>>40919814
This is bullshit

Keto is great. Doesn't really make you lose weight any faster than other diets, but is much more tolerable and pleasant after adaptation.

>>40919814
Forgive me, but I'm going to refer to Wikipedia here as I'm short on time.
Okay, so there are at least two directions you could go in from fasting more than normal (as during sleeping, for example).
1. Anorexia or the starved state. This one should be obvious. Most people figure out not to fast this much.
2. Cushing's syndrome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing%27s_syndrome
>Cushing's syndrome is a collection of signs and symptoms due to prolonged exposure to cortisol.[2][3] Signs and symptoms may include: high blood pressure, abdominal obesity but with thin arms and legs, reddish stretch marks, a round red face, a fat lump between the shoulders, weak muscles, weak bones, acne, and fragile skin that heals poorly.

Cushing's syndrome is an extreme state probably not normally achievable through mere fasting techniques unless there are secondary health problems (Fat people desperate enough to fast frequently have these.), but it's easy to imagine going in that direction some if fasting promotes cortisol elevation. So does fasting elevate cortisol?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol
>It is released in response to stress and low blood-glucose concentration. It functions to increase blood sugar through gluconeogenesis, to suppress the immune system, and to aid in the metabolism of fat, protein, and carbohydrates.[2] It also decreases bone formation.[3]
I won't be citing a source for fasting causing low blood sugar.
>In the early fasting state, cortisol stimulates gluconeogenesis (the formation of glucose), and activates antistress and anti-inflammatory pathways. Cortisol also plays an important, but indirect, role in liver and muscle glycogenolysis, the breaking down of glycogen to glucose-1-phosphate and glucose. This is done through its passive influence on glucagon.[clarification needed] Additionally, cortisol facilitates the activation of glycogen phosphorylase, which is necessary for epinephrine to have an effect on glycogenolysis.[4][5]

>>40920941
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2723024
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15031319

>>40921210
>Cortisol counteracts insulin, contributes to hyperglycemia-causing hepatic gluconeogenesis[15] and inhibits the peripheral use of glucose (insulin resistance)[15] by decreasing the translocation of glucose transporters (especially GLUT4) to the cell membrane.[16] However, cortisol increases glycogen synthesis (glycogenesis) in the liver.[17] The permissive effect of cortisol on insulin action in liver glycogenesis is observed in hepatocyte culture in the laboratory, although the mechanism for this is unknown.

Now see this table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol#Normal_levels
Here you can see cortisol is highest in the morning after having been fasted from sleeping and much lower at night.

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>>40921215
First off, thank you for searching for the source. I appreciate that and I hate when I do that for someone else and they just automatically jump in and pick apart the source.

But I don't believe either study applies. 1 is a 5 day fast, which is A) much longer than what Intermittent fasting typically advocates B) doesn't mention how many calories they ate to begin it.

Do you know that intermittent fasting isn't about eating a single normal sized meal and then not eating the rest of the day but, instead, putting a single days worth of food in one meal and then not eating the rest of the day? This is true. I believe for study 1 to be even halfway relevant to the practice of intermittent fasting then the participants should have been made to eat 2.5 days worth of calories before going on that 5 day fast.

Again thanks for the sources.

On study two, it is perhaps relevant because of this statement:
>Hepatic glucose production by gluconeogenesis is the main source of glucose during fasting
But I believe a further analysis of their definition would reveal it to be, again, not relevent to the regimen known as intermittent fasting wherein one takes in enough calories for the intended fasting period. If you eat 1 days worth of calories and then fast for two days, sure, your cortisol will increase in order to metbolism protein components. But that is what no one doing.

>>40919392
>keto Sunday-Friday and carbing up on Saturday.
terrible idea.

>>40919576
eggs, bacon, spinach, kale, celery, pork cutlets, steaks, chicken thighs, cheese, butter, coconut oil, bacon fat, heavy cream, coffee, salt

that's the most common stuff i have in an average week.

>>40921299
>1 is a 5 day fast, which is A) much longer than what Intermittent fasting typically advocates
Cortisol was measured every 20 minutes and was persistently elevated. Not suddenly after five days.

>doesn't mention how many calories they ate to begin it
>not relevent to the regimen known as intermittent fasting wherein one takes in enough calories for the intended fasting period
How would this change anything exactly? Reduced feeding frequency is known to cause glycogen supercompensation in the liver

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0086164

but counter-regulatory hormones like cortisol and epinephrine are still required to stimulate its release

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.bi.57.070188.003543
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.ph.54.030192.004321

The exception would be some kind of slow-release foods

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/39/7/775.long

Stuff like complex carbohydrates or casein would work but only for a few hours, good enough for an overnight fast but not much longer

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21917635
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22330017
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25926415

>>40921468
I'm not reading that. You're wrong.

>>40919590
>ARTIFICIAL SWEETNERS

this is actually true in my experience. I noticed on the days I don't drink diet soda I feel less hungry. I really like them but I'm starting to think it's not worth it

plus who knows they might be fucking my shit up in other ways

>attempted to start keto for 2nd time this past Monday
>first time was a while ago but saw good results
>was familiar with the whole keto flu thing
>mfw I also got the flu this week and had to cut it 3 days in

Seriously, I was feeling fatigue and shit but when I started coughing and sneezing I was like, "This isn't keto flu! This is an actual flu". Messed my week up...

>>40921594
Same.
>>40919679

>>40921595
Wew

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>>40921566
>

>>40919288
>Did keto work for you?
It did, I did keto a few years back before I started lifting, did it for about 4months and lost the 15kg I wanted to
>Was it easier to see fat loss compared to a normal lower cal diet?
You lose at the same rate as you would with a normal diet with the same amount of calories, but keto is nice because it's easy since you're never hungry
Did you feel worse or better while doing it?
I felt normal when I did it back then, but when I tried it a second time after I started lifting, my lifts came down quite a bit, and I always felt tired at the gym

Nowadays I cut with a normal diet, but usually the only carbs I eat are rice and some fruits.
It's slightly harder, but after a while you get used to the deficit and stop being hungry anyways.
I'd recommend keto to people with extremely weak willpower, but imo a standard diet is superior.

>>40921629
Exactly. Children are so smart. When someone tries to innundate you with bullshit just cover your ears and drown them out.

the keto flu can be avoided if you keep your electrolytes up. add salt to everything, eat your bacon, pickles are great snacks, take magnesium supplements.

the real flu is a little harder to avoid

>>40921645
t. Dunning-Kruger club

>>40921681
>I've named it so I understand it
Lalalalala.

>>40921468
im not saying you're wrong but you're writing fucking walls of text with multiple links on a vietnamese sugardaddy forum

and besides, who the fuck cares, IF will keep your hunger down, and fatties are fat because they're hungry non-stop

ask any fatty if they'd be willing to lose a fraction of their muscle mass while losing like 25% bodyfat and 99% of them will tell you yes. and you will always lose some muscle mass while in deficit so again, who the fuck cares if you DO lose some muscle kek

the best thing I remember about keto besides everything else everyone has already said (never being hungry and all that) was needing less sleep and having more energy in general

I know I sound like just another "miracle diet" hippy but surprisingly it was actually true. I remember waking up early and not feeling tired at all when I did.

Obviously my energy for doing something like sprinting would have been lower, but my "general energy" was seemingly higher than usual.

Keto can be hella hard to stick to though. The sugar/carb additction is real, and they're fucking everywhere. Imagine having to quit heroin and then you just see bags of herion everywhere constantly. Just fuck my shit up senpai

>>40921687
oh the ironing

what i've found is that keto is an autism-tier diet, right up there with daily weighing and calorie/macro counting of food that many people do.

yes, it works, but are you willing to subject yourself to a diet that eliminates an entire macronutrient (and there's no cheat meals/days, because if you do those, it'll take you 2-3 days to get back into ketosis)

if the answer is yes, go ahead, there's a whole faq on le leddit, but know that keto isn't a magical diet, and your performance in the gym WILL suffer (keto is best suited for couch potatoes who want to lose weight and not exercise)

I found after completing Keto and then going back to a normal diet, I put on the pounds much easier than if I was on a just low calorie diet. Anyone else experience this?

>>40921708
>and besides, who the fuck cares, IF will keep your hunger down
Quite the sweeping statement to make, sure that quantifier holds for everyone?

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-8-4
>Increasing meal frequency appears to help decrease hunger and improve appetite control.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15699226
>Reported energy intake was significantly lower in the EB period (P=0.001)

>>40921855
your body will go immediately back to storing fat rather than using it as energy, so yea, gaining weight is very very easy after keto

>>40921855
yep. me. lost 40kg and then regained it all. and that's what happens with 90% of people. you start eating carbs > carbs are yummy > you cant control yourself > you overeat > rinse and repeat. that's why lowered calories with something like 2 meals/day or IF method works better.

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>>40921823
0/10 attempt to bait my by implying

>>40919288
GEt some keto sticks to know if youre doin IT right

>>40921879
if you didn't search pubmed for scientific papers that back your shit up, and introduced a bit of logic, you'd understand this

everyone i know including me agrees that if you have a budget of 1800 calories, you're better off eating 1 or 2 big meals comprised of ~900 kcal each than to eat 6 meals of 300kcal each. more food = more satiety = less hunger.

and yeah, maybe "Increasing meal frequency appears to help decrease hunger and improve appetite control." is true. i guess i'm just a freak of nature then

>>40921884
+ your body will store the glycogene storage and you will store a lot of water with that.
Depletion of glycogene storage is one of the reasons you loose the first few kilos on a keto diet pretty easily. Though it is mainly water.

BTW You still have to eat on a caloric deficit on keto in order to loose weight, right?

>>40921957
yes. which makes it an unnecessary hard diet.

>>40922003
So what is the fucking point of keto? It is super unhealthy and the only benefits you get are from the weight loss, not from all the unhealthy food you shove in your fat face.
Is it so difficult to eat more veggies and lees processed foods?

>>40921892
>it's b8 cauz muh fee fees got hurt
I accept your admission of defeat.

>>40922054
the only point is you're less hungry when you eat close to no carbs

the keto diet was originally made for children epilepsy patients, and there's some evidence it can slow the rate of growth of some cancers.

that being said, the people who back keto up will fight to death for it, it's a very cultish diet (see reddit.com/r/keto)

>>40921957
>+ your body will store the glycogene storage and you will store a lot of water with that.

Yes and? I don't understand what you are implying. You think you are holding less water when not on keto or what?

>Keto = super little water weight
>Low carb = little water weight
>high carb = a lot of water weight

When you get off keto diet you don't gain some magical "extra" weight, it's literally just the water you would have anyways on a low-high carb diet.

This doesn't make keto any worse or better.

>>40919288
When you transition into keto you will get the "keto flue" all it is, is a lack of nutrients and minerals because your body doesn't hold onto water anymore. You need salt potassium and magnesium. For the first week eat spinach avocados and beef broth to counter these effects if you don't you'll get headaches and feel like shit. After that you'll be fine your body will adapt. Depending on your activity level. You will notice a lot of weight dropping. I've been doing keto for 4 months lost 55 pounds. I feel great you never get intense hunger pains. When you do get hungary after a few minutes you body uses you fat stores and hunger goes away. You also get this mental clarity. Instead of having energy highs or crashes you get a constant stream of energy through out the day. If you are going to the gym carb up eat most of your carbs that time of day to give you a boost max (30g carbs) Personally I'll probably stay on this diet forever makes me feel great. But if you do get off it. And if you do eat a heavy carb meal you will experience intense thirst. You will gain weight but it will only be water weight. But over eating carbs while transitioning back to a carb centric diet will cause you to gain weight. So have an idea of what your diet will be after finishing keto.

>>40922091
i enjoy keto as a tool to lose bodyfat (lost 30lbs in 3 months, 220-190lbs), but yea, the keto advocates can be annoying. they act like carbs are poison, despite 99% of the world living on a carb-based diet.

>>40919392
If you really want effects don't carb up until a few months when you get keto adapted. All you doing is going into keto the dipping out. It doesn't give your body enough time to make the things that break down ketones once adapted you can go back to this way of eating.

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>>40922079
Again, 0/10.

>>40919518
There's a lot of other benefits
>mental clarity
>constant energy

>>40922054
see playlist at >>40919421

Weight loss is literally the least of the benefits of replacing insulin with ketones.

>>40922159
>mental clarity
bullshit.
>constant energy
...which you'll feel if you drop out processed sugar from your diet, and eat mostly vegetables, meats, eggs, dairy, and some complex carbs.

>>40921595
Your body needs magnesium potassium and salt. Eat avocado spinach and salt every day, first week. I did this and never experienced these symptoms. It was a really smooth transition.

So if all these fast is bullshit, why did I hear that Swedes were healthier and stronger than ever when they went rhrough a famine? Or was that bullshit? Or why some places like Cuba where there is barely food have highly aggressive men?

>>40922126
Same progress here. Im going to start lifting soon now that I can afford it. I need to start eating carbs again which will be somewhat fun. I missed rice and snacking a lot on fruits.

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>>40922194

>>40922194
>bullshit
Alright sure how about you try it? When ever I spiked my insulin I always got brain fog and sleepy. I don't get that anymore. But you're the expert right?

>>40921925
Caloric content and density of a meal is definitely a determinant of acute fullness (the intestine has many sensors to detect fuel) but in the longer term things could become a bit more complex than that. For example downstream signaling in the brain that regulates satiety (like hypothalamic mTOR activity and FoxO localization) could have a refractory period and point of saturation much like the muscle full effect.

Some populations may have genetic differences that cause them to have better appetite control when meal frequency is low

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/103/6/1555.full

When low meal frequency self-selectors are put on diets with higher meal frequency their energy intake and body weight even goes up

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666316310315

So there's much inter-individual variation. To say there's a one-size-fits-all solution is ignorant.

>>40922144
It's ok senpai. The bait card is your last infantile resort and it's not gonna become less wrong by throwing it repeatedly. But there's still hope that one day you'll grow up and learn to reflect on your behavior :^)

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>>40922485
Is this what you want, man?