"proven" broscience

Protein immediately after a workout speeds up recovery

Cardio makes it easier to hold on to muscle during a cut

Cardio burns muscle during a cut

Bcaas help my workout if I haven't eaten in couple hours and don't have time to eat before

cardio kills gains

Doing a cardio movement backwards every so often magics the brain and tissues to be better and not strained. Like running and cycling backwards.

>>40699039
Full body is superior to PPL or splits as a beginner. Because you get the same volume, but you train each muscle 3-4 times a week instead of 2.

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>>40699057
>>40699065
>>40699072

>>40699053
This isn't broscience, its scientific fact. Its not limited to protein though. Eating anything after a workout 100% without a shadow of a doubt, increases recovery rate.

>>40699039
Whey protein right before and after a workout seems to work well for me.

Cheating on dumbell rows is better than doing it strict.
You can do more weight, more reps and is better for grip.

>>40699072
This. My legs were way too sore after a month of trying to combine SS with 30minutes of jogging 3 times a weeks. I stalled hard on the squat and deadlift and suddenly progressed fast as fuck after stopping cardio.

>>40699085
>scientific fact
get out of here with your weasel words

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>>40699039
>carbs at night make you fat
>cardio kills gains
>keto burns fat way faster
>PPL is better for volume

the weird thing is that I've seen studies debunking every one of these things, but somehow they work for me

>>40699079
This isn't broscience either, full body is proven to be superior for new lifters. They even out over time, but new gains are seen much more quickly on full body.

>>40699094
>what is supercompensation and how does overreaching impact it.
>hint: fatigue masks fitness

>>40699039
1g per lb bodyweight. I've tried doing lower protein intakes, like .5g or even as low as RDI. That shit didn't work. I made my best gains on 1g per lb.

>>40699104
So I was gaining muscle, but I was too fatigued to improve performance?

>>40699093
This is not true and makes you look retarded

>>40699098
In what way is full body superior to new lifters who are just starting out powerlifting? In what way is full body superior to sprinters who just started using weight training to sprint faster?
Jesus christ /fit/ has gotten stupid as fuck,

>>40699111
Im not saying you should only cheat. i mean cheating as in using some leg drive. Try it. I havent found a better exercise to put muscle and strength on my upper back. and it seems like its helping my deadlift.

>>40699110
Something like that, it's not cardio that killed your gains, it's your body that wasn't adapted to the workload of jogging along with SS.

>>40699115
Well those are targeted goals, m8. Full body implies a more general approach and full body routines -> splits/PPL for that. Think before you get salty my man.

>>40699093
yeah, but you use less the muscle you're trying to hit, just like in curls, you think you're curling 40's but actually you are working your shoulders more than your biceps

>>40699143
>yeah, but you use less the muscle you're trying to hit

I think people here dont understand what i mean by cheating or have a picture of a guy just swinging weights around.

You use a bit of leg driver to get the weight up, then lower it slowly. So youll hit the muscle youre suppose to, but you also get better grip work, you can do more reps, higher weight, and more anti-rotation training (obliques).

youre not flailing the weight around.

>>40699142
I'll salt as much as i want

>>40699143
You can't really use that analogy, as one of your biceps functions is to move your shoulder forward. An example of this could be throwing with an underhand grip.

The biggest muscle and strength gains of my life happened when I ate like an absolute animal. I mean seriously, I stuffed myself every fucking meal. I'm talking 5-6 thousand calories a day.

I was 6`1 205lbs at 20% body fat, I was obsessed with getting stronger on the bench so I said fuck it. Im talking 2 "all u can eat buffets" a day of chinese food, sushi and grill. Protein shakes, protein bars, the works. I was eating like it was my fucking job.

surprise : I gained very little fat and gained ridiculous amounts of muscle.

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>>40699172
GOTTA EAT BIG TO GET BIG CMON

>>40699039
>that filename

hold the fuck up is that actually a polished turd ?

>>40699172
Ive gone this route and it sure as fuck didnt work lmao.

>>40699172
>I gained very little fat and gained ridiculous amounts of muscle.
I call bullshit.

>>40699094
SS is not a balanced program, it's an assault.

>>40699172
And what were you cycling?

>>40699097
>keto burns fat way faster
You're probably dropping more of the water you would've retained on a more normal diet

>>40699206
Nothing. It just worked for me. After some time of it i DID start gaining fat. It's unsustainable. My guess is that I had been underfeeding my body for the volume and intensity I was putting it through, and as soon as it got enough it ran with it like a motherfucker.

If it worked perfectly always I'd still be doing it , wouldnt I

>>40699172
Ever looked at omarisuf and his first dirty bulk? He did this and he thought he was big and muscular as fuck. Turned out he was almost 30% and had to cut down to under 170 to be ablt to see his abs.

>>40699202
I got my bench to 205, squat to 280, ohp to 140 and deadlift to 320 while still 175@5'9. I'd say it worked for me.

>>40699230

It's possible... but doesn't explain how my bench max went from 115kgs to 133kgs in 2 months :D

>>40699243
Exactly, but you weren't breaking your 10k PR in that same timeframe. It's meant to put a little meat on you and teach you the important lifts, which it does.

>>40699095
Not that guy but I think there's some truth too it. I'm still sceptical about the fact that eating after a workout is extra beneficial but read for yourself in this article
http://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-4-8

>>40699172
this is what happens when you don't get your macros right

>>40699085
No. The protein synthesis enhancement is systemic and not restricted to skeletal muscle tissue, tha majority of the aminoacids are most likely going to be used by your IG tract and liver

>>40699039
You need to train your arms for them to get big. Chinups (even weighted) are not enough for biceps and push compound movements are not enough for triceps. Throw either some curls or triceps extensions or pushdowns in at the end of every workout if you want them to grow.

I trained for almost a year and still only had 13 inch arms. I've been doing curls and skullcrushers for like 2 months now and it's already increased to 13.5 inch. Shit works.

>>40699129
>cheat reps
>omg I can lift more weight
You're not the smart kid in your class, are you?

>>40699251
Holy shit, that's pretty nice, but it's nothing foreign for people with more fat on their frame to be better at benching. You're shortening of the ROM and your fat around your arms is acting almost like elbow sleeves when you're at the bottom.

why is it when you breathe out during a lift you can lift more?

>>40699039
Doing high intensity, low volume sets mitigates the need for multiple sets. As a newb/intermediate lifter you literally do not need to bother with 3x5 80-82% when you could just do 1x5 85-87%

>>40699039
>one of your biceps functions is to move your shoulder forward
It literally isn't

>>40699254
The general consensus in the sport scientific communities is that the post workout window has been abolished. It has more to do with meal timing and quality generally throughout the day.
If you haven't had any proper meals with quality protein, then yea it might be beneficial to eat right after a workout, or even better, have an intra workout shake with leucine. But if you have a solid meal plan you are sticking to, you don't need to eat after a workout, but again that all depends on what your PWO meal is composed of.

https://peerj.com/articles/2825/

In the end it all comes down to preferences and lots of varying factors. There isn't a single best way to eat that everyone should follow. And it is important to get this message out, too many discussion are reduced to shit throwing because everybody believe their own way of doing it is the most correct way.

>>40699295
>do explosive movement up
>heavier eccentric
vs
>moving far less weight up in a controlled manner
>lower the same relatively small amount of weight down on the eccentric.

>>40699353
The bicep tendon literally does function as shoulder stabilization when moving your shoulder forward, by pulling the humerus and humerus head.

>>40699097
Cognitive dissonance is one hell of a drug

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>>40699353
Holy shit are you stupid.
The biceps is a 2 joint muscle, which originates from the front of your scapula above your shoulder and inserts in the radius, which makes it a elbow flexor (most commonly known) a supinator and a shoulder flexor.

>>40699383
>>40699415
>stabilizing=moving
Lmao no

>>40699093
It actually might be better for grip but the rest of this is just not true

>>40699375
So what? You're having a heavier eccentric and a lighter concentric, so you're missing out on the most important half of the reo

>>40699097
>but somehow they work for me
That's literally what training should be about. If you look at good coaches, they costumize routines for their athletes to fit them and give the best results even it what they're doing was proven ineffective by studies and whatnot.

Placebo also helps a lot. I read a study where they compared 3 groups. A was getting and oral steroid, B was getting a placebo and told it was steroids and C acted as a control getting nothing. A of course made the best gains but B made noticably better gains than C simply because they thought they were taking steroids. Crazy.

>>40699430
would you say getting good time under tension with more weight is worse then the same with less weight?

>>40699429
There are literally EMG studies proving that there is significant biceps activation during a military press, which is a shoulder flexion and elbow extension movement. Tell me how the biceps isn't aiding shoulder flexion.

>>40699445
your handling more weight, so the concentric is basically the same as you would do a strict row. its just heavier on the eccentric. You get the sime time under tension. Its just heavier.

>>40699445
Eccentric is more effective than concentric.

one of these 3 things solved my shitty cystic acne problem on my face and body
>cutting sugar almost completely out of my diet
>cutting oatmeal out of my daily diet
>summer ended and winter started so Ive had very limited exposure to the sun
Im not sure which one of those did it or if it was a combination of all 3, but something certainly cured the terrible problem

>>40699547
probably number 1.

sun is in general pretty ok for your skin as long as you're not over exposing yourself

>>40699104
Does fatigue affect recovery periods for "SS-like" linear progression schemes such that at some point there is too much cumulative fatigue to see progress in lifts? How about for more advanced weekly based training schemes (TM or example)? Assuming no or only very light cardio is done.

Basically, how much training is "overtraining" such that you need to account for supercompensation windows and so on?

>>40699057
You've got it backwards. Lifting during a cut helps you hold onto muscle. Doing cardio helps create the caloric deficit aside from just being good for you.

>>40699325
Increased intra-abdominal pressure via tension

>>40699547
>>40699573
>>cutting sugar almost completely out of my diet
Fuck that shit. There's chicks and dudes who eat sweets every day and don't get pimples, I'm not going to change my diet. I'm taking accutane. Shit works. I'd rather have a little try skin and use lotion that denying myself sugar.

>>40699547
>>40699611
BTW, my derm told me the only food that really makes a difference when your acne is genetic, is whether or not you're drinking milk and dairy products.

>>40699093
Cheat curls have their place in the routines of intermediate/advanced lifters whose bodies have already adapted to the strict motion. This logic also applies in the barbell compounds v. isolation debate, SS v. Body part splits, "muscle vs motion", etc.

>>40699179
THATS NOT WEALTHY HARPSICHORD CMON

>>40699623
I meant cheat rows but it applies to all "cheating"/use of body english

>>40699611
everyone is different anon. what works for some wont work for others
>accutane
fucked my brain up. maybe even permanently. but again, maybe it wont for you

>>40699039
Anything that involves "shocking the muscle". Heavy day/Light day splits, Cheating heavy compounds with light high volume of the same motion either one after the other or supersetted. Shit like that that won't really have an NIH study on it because it's meathead minutiae type shit.

>>40699094
>added cardio to SS
>program didn't work
>stopped cardio
>program worked
It's almost like recovery is finite and you should've actually read the book and followed Ripp's instructions. You're not supposed to do cardio on SS for exactly the reason you discovered the hard way, after wasting valuable time and effort.

>>40699094

>he still falling for the squat and deadlift meme

>>40699251

>what is relative strength

You are fucking retarded

>>40699111
>overloading the negative is ineffective and looks stupid
No, you're ineffective and stupid.

>>40699039
I will get my very own temple ball one day

>>40699156
Are you using Scott's cheat and recover method? That's what it sounds like. He's been doing a ton of videos about it the last month or so.

>>40699713

It's his cover for doing roids and making people believe that it's a new supertechnique for getting gains

>>40699638
i think it may be otherwise.
the reason why is that the back is composed of so many different muscles and is so big, volume wise, that you have to cheat to train it properly. And it doesnt seem to affect recovery for this very reason.

Cheat curls is different as you train one muscle, and use cheating to overload it. or try to get more eccentric work in. Which will affect recovery time.

and that is my broscience reason for it.

>>40699713
ive seen some videoes of it. The first time i saw it as a protocol was with kroc rows. But he/she didnt really focus on the eccentric phase.

>>40699640
>fucked my brain up
Sorry, to hear that. I've read a lot and found there are some heavy side effects for some people.
I've been on it for 9 months now and plant on taking it for another 3 months or so. Haven't had any side effects aside from dry skin and lips, so I guess I'm lucky.

>>40699445
Lmao, the eccentric portion of the lift is the most important. You go to dummy school, dummy?

Recomping works

>>40699188
Look up "dorodango"

>>40699773
>Recomping works
what is it?

>>40699679
No shit Sherlock

>>40699722
>tiny traps
>average shoulders
>looked "fuller" after increasing bf%
Oh yeah, definitely roids. You know how to spot 'em, anon.

>>40699807
You acted like a retard, but now you're sassing me for pointing out that you were retarded? Why are you even here?

>>40699773
Recomping isn't broscience though, it's real science and bros never do a recomp. They just bulk and cut.

>>40699812

you are for a hell of a discovery you newfag

>>40699843
>I have secret insider knowledge
Do tell, trustworthy anon.

>>40699843
Look at this >>40699465

Clearly a steroid user. Acne. Boulder shoulders. Overdeveloped traps. Scott shows none of these signs, nor is he visibly more vascular or more cut than he was a month ago. I know people love fallen angel stories, but you're retarded to think he hopped on juice recently. What indication is there of steroid use?

nofap causes better skin and all acne goes away after a few days of it.

>>40699445
>>40699445

Your individual muscles can't comprehend strict vs momentum. They grow based on work output and how much effort it took. Using some leg drive is just as practical as going strict and they both have their place in lifting. I've always found using some momentum has better carryover in other lifts, and then lowering the weight and going strict helps to really refine the whole process.

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>>40699886

You are fucking stupid if you think every roider ends like this

Just search for dianabol transformations in google, you will see thousands of guys who barely look out of dyel and used roids

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If you are really fat or want to lose weight quickly, DONATE BLOOD, eat LITERALLY HALF OF WHAT YOU ARE USED TO, drink a lot of water everyday, and do a bit of excersice. Ive discovered this "cheat" by accident.

>>40699922
Not him. You realise that the muscle that you are targeting itself is not providing the (full) momentum? Are you suggesting that because you drove the weight with some other muscle, the weight has momentum (than a lighter weight) ergo the the muscle you are actually training is doing more work?

>really refine the whole process
and I'm not sure what even you mean by this

>>40699243
Your squat and deadlift were lacking in comparison to your bench and OHP.

>>40699928
>steroids don't disproportionately impact sites rich in androgen receptors
Baka.

Again, what signs are there that he recently began steroid use? Please. I'm waiting. Surely you don't think he has actually transformed over the last 6-8 weeks, other than getting softer around the edges, which actually contraindicates steroid use.

Fuck, watch his informational videos he did on various steroids and you tell me whether he sounds like a guy speaking from experience. He sounds exactly like a grade schooler doing a report on ozone and the obvious reason for why that is is because all of his knowledge comes from Google, not experience.

>>40700019

>Please. I'm waiting.

Just fuck off, you fedora wanker, you probably don't even lift

>>40699207
lower carb diets have a higher thermic effect (meaning they increase your TDEE) and are less insulinogenic (meaning your insulin sensitivity is greater and insulin spikes are smaller and less frequent which make it much harder for your body to "store" fat)
someone eating at a 500 calorie deficit on a ketogenic diet might lose weight at the same rate someone on the same deficit but on an IIFYM style diet would but more of the weight they lose will be fat

>>40700045
Haha, m8, didn't mean to BTFO you so harshly. Seek treatment for that asspain.

Keto made me lose weight and gave me a better sex drive.
Would recommend.

>>40700007

It's broscience. I ain't gotta explain shit.

Muscle memory is very real.No matter how much muscle you lose you can get it back in 1-2 months if you eat plenty and lift the same weights.It's like steroid noob gains

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>>40700165
okay nig nog

Fats make you fat.
Red meat is bad for you.

WHOLE MILK WHOLE GAINS WHOLE SOUL GET SWOLE

>>40700246
Seems unlikely as there isn't a well known mechanism that does such a thing(perhaps just to my knowledge), but I wouldn't rule something like that impossible (faster adaptations to stimuli that the body is "used to"/has had previously adapted for?).

More likely it's probably because you have a better technical knowledge of the lifts, better eating habits and better understanding of proper programming and your personal recovery periods. Basically, you know what works for you.

>>40700288
>Red meat is bad for you.
True. A collective study of about 800 individual studies has concluded that red mean increases certain cancer risks by 17% (I think it was).

>Fats make you fat
Also true. A gram of fat contains far more kJ and either a gram of carbs or protein (was it 9 vs. 4 per gram of each? Look it up). Also fats are generally low satiety foods, although this may be a consequence of the former.

>>40700402
>Also fats are generally low satiety foods

Every keto proponent touts fats as filling and keeping you full for longer.

>>40700438
Yeah that makes sense when I actually think about it. The other point should still hold though.

>>40700454
Isn't that broscience though? How do you scientifically measure hunger in a controlled environment?

>>40700438
>>40700454

It's just fat makes food more tasty and easier to eat, so you tend to eat more

>>40699039
Drinking lots of milk prevents bone injures.

>t. Former marathon runner

>>40699282
Circle logic. You saying that it not being specific to skeletal muscle build, doesnt exclude it.

>>40699039
Magnesium supplements for muscle cramps. The scientific data for that is terrible, but I and many others I know have gotten the benefits, quite clearly to say. Im not saying placebo wouldnt be a part of it, but anyway.

>>40700489
I don't know actually. But it seems to be a widespread opinion.

Alas such is the problem with most soft sciences that there are many things you can't test rigorously, or at least that it would be too complicated to set up a control and no body cares enough to do it.

>>40700526
>Magnesium supplements for muscle cramps

Also works for eyelid twitches.

>>40700546
NO shit? I sometimes get those twitches. Thanks, man

>>40700516
WRONG. The calcium from milk depletes calcium from your bones and causes osteoporosis.
https://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

>>40699085
what if I've eaten before a workout and the last of it is digesting just as I finish?

>>40699946
>If you are fat, eat less

Brilliant.

>>40699093
Look up Alpha destiny on YouTube, he has the same philosophy and he has huge traps and back.
Think of it like, how Olympic lifters have developed backs and traps from pulling heavy, full body movement

>>40700246

"Muscle memory" is a well documented phenomenon with understood biological underpinnings. Google "satellite cell proliferation" for more info.

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>>40700565
ROFL at the website. Absolutely NO sources shown. Fake news! Sad, many such cases. See my reaction picture I attached.

Calcium is a needed mineral for the human body, and a lot of its functions are related to the bone and changes in it. Different hormones regulate the breakdown / building process of the bone structure. Vitamin D plays a part in this as well, mainly to allow calcium to be absorbed. Without calcium, the body does not have enough resources to build to bone and it gets fragile.

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>>40700608
Man, those satellite proteins are probably the shit if you know what I mean. I just recently read about the cold showers for long term muscle gain through increased recovery (DONT do those was the tldr), and they had it all come down to very scientific level and talked about the satellite proteins as well. Interesting to see future development in the fitness industry.

>>40700438

Fats slow "gastric emptying" keeping you Fuller BETWEEN meals. Carbs have more "bulk" to them which helps fill you up DURING the meal.

Take home message: eat some of both.

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>>40700489
I believe it would be the same as for pain, for example. Basically, you don't. It is always an estimate, but an accurate one.

For example, pain medication can be listen based on their potency, and through those findings the so called ceiling dosages have been found. For example, ibuprofen doesnt get any better at pain management after 400 mg, although the inflammatory suppressant factors scale higher.

Hunger could therefore be measured purely based on subjective feelings, and if done on a large enough group of people, it could be called accurate enough.

If any of you niggas is interested in the ibuprofen one, just google ibuprofen ceiling dosage.

>>40699085
>this isn't broscience
>post broscience

>>40700604
>how Olympic lifters have developed backs and traps

You have never seen an amateur natural olympic lifter

they look dyel as fuck, almost crossfit level of dyel

>>40699039
i do many sets of 3-5 reps, pyramid up and down, do drop sets often, it seems chaotic and all over the place but i always leave feeling amazing and it's always worked for me.

>>40700711
You obviously never watched a crossfit competition. There always super jacked and look aesthetic af. Guess if there not fat ass powerlifters there dyel

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>>40700736

Go back to /pol/ you little trolling faggot

>>40700362
I think the Myonuclear domain theory explains the muscle memory.
I'm not sure if I understand it, but each nucleus in the muscle fiber is responsible for monitoring a part of the fiber.
As the fiber gets bigger, the nucleus can't synthetise enough protein for the hypertrophied fiber so the satellite cells come to aid and form more nuclei.
If you stop working out, the protein synthesis slows down and the muscle undergoes atrophy but the nuclei are still there.
When you work out again, it's faster to up the metabolism of the fiber again because there's still more nuclei then you had when you were untrained. You get to your former strength faster.

I'm not sure I got it right and there might be someone who will correct me in this regard.

>>40699039
>stretching the lats and traps is more important than a full ROM

>>40700007
the point is that it puts in the same amount of effort going as you would using that lone muscle and a lower weight. so when you lower (presumably at the same speed) its under higher tension for the same amount of time.

Of course, this is a broscience thread.

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>This thread

>>40700759
Nauh I hate them nazis. I just think it's funny /fit talks so much shit about crossfit when most of fit wants the body that competition level crossfit provides. It's almost all a mix of oly lifts and power lifts. Toss in some running and box jumps bamb crossfit.

>>40700584
Yes thanks for pointing out the obvious, what I've wanted you to understand is that you can greatly speed up the process if you donate blood, dumbass

>>40701856
By temporarily weighing a little less or what?

>>40699611
Not gonna make it

>>40699076
Whoa never thought of this
Also how retarded do you look Running backward like a bird? Lol

What about broscience you discovered yourself?
I'll start with small sliced mushrooms making your shits godly.

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>>40699084
kek

>>40702107
Man I'm the opposite
eating mushrooms always means I will have an awful shit because they fucking leave the same way they got in
My digestive system seems to be ignoring mushrooms completely

>>40702513
Did you try chewing

>>40702008
I tried running backwards. My step counter went backwards as well and I started gaining fat. Pls help

>>40702553
you have to eat backwards too

>>40702559
you don't have to eat backwards idiot, you only have to chew backwards

>>40702559
Fuck that wasn't in the sticky

>>40700913
Med here, this guy gets it

>>40699094

90 minutes of jogging a week hurt your progress on an extremely low volume program? Are you the softest cunt that has ever existed? How do you even get through the day?

>>40699359

>sport scientific communities

That's a laugh. The PWO window hasn't been "abolished," it's just that it's more like 24+ hours of better nutrient partitioning than some 1-2 hour magic window that people thought it was.

>>40699039
Cable flys grows chest.

You need to eat 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight.

Creatine works.

I wanna believe.

>>40703227
Creatine has PLENTY of supportive data to be found in pubmed, go ham.

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>>40699039
>Cardio kills gains
>Whey protein is alright if your not on a budget
>Milk is bad
>Negatives strengthen tendons
>Compounds--->Isolation---->Bodyweight

>>40699076
I swim backwards sometimes

Or if the pool is crowded, I'll use the rowing machine backwards

>more protein: more gains
>Plateauing? Just up the volume
>You can train the same thing 4 days in a row if you're a beginner.

>you don't need protein powder to get big, just eat a fuckton huge meal after your workouts
>eat whenever you're hungry if you're trying to maintain or bulk and you won't get fat
>if you're exercising consistently with heavy weights you can eat junk food alongside your decent /fit/ meals without getting fat

>>40699822
>sassing
Kill yourself

>>40699039
Don't listen to 4chan they're literally all a bunch of skinny fat dyels that use noobie gains to back up their "knowledge" of lifting.

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>>40699085
are you 4 real

>>40699206
>>40699195

Someone at 6'1" 205lbs 20%bf has a lot of muscle to gain. This is reasonable.

>>40699547
did you touch your face less?

>>40703894
is all this purposely wrong?

>>40700710
kek

>>40700045
>Presents no actual argument.
>Gets mad when called out on it.

Kek.

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squat plugs help just as much as a belt.

more intra-abdominal pressure

>>40702553
made me smile.

>>40699547
>cutting oatmeal out of my daily diet

GET OUT.