You don't have to torture and kill animals to get good gains

>>40536311
Clarence is vegetarian, not vegan, and he hasn't always been vegetarian. Stop shitposting.

>>40536311
Why are you calling those men "boy"

>>40536320

lol you are wrong, he is vegan (for ethical reasons) just watch his latest Q&A videos

>>40536320
he explicitly details his exclusively vegan current diet in at least four of his latest videos

>>40536332
>>40536336
You're literally wrong and hilariously so.

>>40536348

how does it feel to be mentally handicapped?

>>40536311
>You don't have to torture and kill animals to get good gains
Well if I want to live in a house, not have my city infested by rats, wear clothes that don't cost 200$ per pair of socks, have electricity, have a computer and the internet, not die of pneumonia at age 40, drive a car or take public transport or own a bike - I have to make peace with the fact that all those things cause animals to suffer and die.

If I ate eggs and the occasional chicken+vegan diet, would I still have all the usual deficiencies vegans get? My backyard is large enough to raise chickens and modern farming techniques are really fucking unethical

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>>40536311

>You're a powerlifter harry

>>40536361

Some suffering is unavoidable. Veganism seeks to eliminate the unnecessary suffering. Also, if you look at the scale of suffering, the suffering you do inflict by wearing woolen socks, eliminating rats etc pales in comparison to the suffering caused by the meat, egg, and dairy industry.

Its honestly a really bad argument to say because some suffering is unaviodable, there's no reason to eliminate undue suffering. I mean, really?

>>40536361

[citation needed]

what does that have to do with anything. are you referencing biomedical research? because thats been debunked sweatie :-)

>>40536387
Good thing things don't suffer as much as you claim.

Lemme guess, you watched Food Inc and are now a food activist?

>>40536311
>eating animals kills fewer of them than the simple act of living in modern society
the only way to be "cruelty free" is to kill yourself
>inb4 but you can at least try to minimize the suffering
even if non-faggots cared, the simple act of paying taxes causes the death of more animals than you could eat on a pure meat diet. good luck explaining that to the IRS.

>>40536311
natty omnivore > fraudulent vegan

>>40536375

What do you mean by "all the usual deficiencies vegans get"? Some vegans are low on vitamin B12 but supplements for that is cheap. Cattle is also enriched by B12 so it carries over to meat, which is why meat eaters arent deficient. Some vegans are low on Vitamin D3 but the body produces it naturally on exposure to sunlight, so D3 deficiency is mostly related to sunlight exposure (and not really diet-related).

Most soy/almond milks etc are fortified with these vitamins so its not really a problem tbf

>>40536311
I like eating dead animals and won't stop

>>40536348
he's vegan, watch his videos

>Eat crops
>Have to execute hundreds upon hundreds of birds with shotguns

>>40536403

Funny that when I destroyed your shitty argument, you have to revert to ad hominem attacks. And as a matter of fact, I have not watched Food Inc. Is it any good?

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>>40536311

>>40536412
>having to modify your food to prove a point
Absolutely howling

>>40536393
>[citation needed]
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/roads.html
Here, and that's just roads. No roads = no civilization.

>are you referencing biomedical research? because thats been debunked sweatie :-)
[citation needed]

>>40536387
>Its honestly a really bad argument to say because some suffering is unaviodable, there's no reason to eliminate undue suffering. I mean, really?
By not buying sweatshop clothes and electronics, buying solar panels, moving to the countryside, eating only local food etc. - you can do far more to minimize suffering.

I have nothing against people who do that, but idiots who post on their iphone about how great their exoitc fruit salad tasted while wearing nikes, and then post about how they are so fucking saintly for being vegans - are utter and complete hypocrites and faggots.

>>40536454
>>having to modify your food to prove a point
>Absolutely howling

>forgetting that most non-vegan foods are also fortified with the same vitamins and minerals

btfo boy

>>40536463
>how dare you call me out on my bullshit
>y-your food is fortified too
Absolutely howling

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>>40536311
how does it feel to be below a fucking CHICKEN?

faggot

>THINK OF THE ANIMALS

You sound like a pro diversity activist

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>>40536311
Even plants laugh at you

>>40536472

If you claim my diet is deficient because it requires some fortification (but yours also require fortification) that nullify your point

>>40536387
>some are unavoidable
>sigh*
>well I decide what's necessary for human and what's not

Fuck off. To my standard you should tear down your house and everybody burn down the city we should all go back to ancient world where we don't hurt animals and environment

Ducking double standard unreasonable liberal fag

>>40536456

Ok, so because some suffering is unavoidable with modern life we should just say fuck it and accept all suffering.

Any action that causes LESS suffering is more moral compared to the action that causes the same or more suffering. This is also naturally proportional to the degree in which the undue suffering can be eliminated. Cell phones, computers etc are an integral part of existence in todays society but meat products are NOT.

Jesus christ dude

>>40536474
>>40536487

kill urselfvs

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>>40536518
Take your own advice

>>40536498

You havent really proposed any good arguments against veganism, all you're really saying is that because your existence is dependent on inflicting some suffering onto animals, that legitimizes all suffering inflicted onto animals, and that includes the suffering that is completely unnessecary to live a healthy and prosperous life.

You see why you are wrong?

>>40536498
roid rage?

>>40536492
>if I make excuses and jump to conclusions I'm right
Absolutely howling

>>40536556
>Your diet requires fortified foods
>So does yours

wow good point bro

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>>40536541
Which diet will keep you alive in the wild?

>>40536570
are you in the wild?

>>40536567
Prove what I'm eating is fortified
I'll wait lol

>>40536574
Why are you avoiding the question and attempting question deflection?

>>40536574

Funny how vegans ALWAYS gets stranded on a deserted island, or in the woods or wild or some other crappy scenario during discussions. Its like the last shitty argument they have hurr durr u cant survive in the wild, ur diet must be shit then, going to the supermarket to get ground up animals for food that was raised on factory farms must be okey dokey then

>>40536517
>Any action that causes LESS suffering is more moral compared to the action that causes the same or more suffering.

Not necessarily , there are three mechanisms of judging an action as "good":
>Hedonic
This clearly doesn't apply to this debate. If you don't eat meat because you don't enjoy it - fine.
>Utilitarian.
An action needs to be efficient in achieving a goal - as I pointed out veganism is far less effective at minimizing suffering than many other things. Just shopping only for local goods and foods has more of an effect. Contributing to corruption, explotation, polluting the seas and causing all manner of mayhem - so you can have a computer is only utilitarian if you are reasonably sure you will use it to end a huge portion of human suffering. Otherwise it's an hedonic choice.
>Moral absolutism
Black or white - let justice be done even if the heavens fall, as they say. If you subscribe to this then throw your computer/phone in the trash, burn down your house and move to the woods.

People mix and match all three all the time, you choose to be absolutist or hedonic about some stuff, I choose to be it about other stuff. But don't fucking tell me you're automatically better than me - you're not.

>>40536311
>You don't have to torture and kill animals
I don't, I let other people do it for me :^)

>>40536593
*autistic screeching*

>>40536387
And the elimination of the meat and dairy industry would cause domesticated animals to suffer to extinction, not to mention the environmental ramifications of converting to a scientifically optimal diet for the mass populace

>>40536582
I'm not avoiding it. You're not in the wild and it's a weak argument. Who wouldn't kill an animal to stay alive? But are you in a situation where you need to kill to stay alive, anon?

>>40536593
>ignoring 2/3rds of the planet that kills their own food or go to the local butcher and dont have the luxury of supermarkets
First world problems

>>40536311
kys

>>40536627
>I'm not avoiding it
>I'm making excuses
Whoa!

>>40536608
To clarify:
>An action needs to be efficient in achieving a goal - as I pointed out veganism is far less effective at minimizing suffering than many other things
... that you could do just as REASONABLY as not eating meat and that you CHOOSE not to do.

>>40536627
>Who wouldn't kill an animal to stay alive?
You mean your diet isn't natural?
Shocked I tell you

>>40536641
I pretty much affirmed your argument, yet you accuse me of making excuses? For whom? For you?

>trains like a work horse eating meat and steroids
>stops eating meat for a few months
hehe look how strong vegans are XD

>>40536660
wtf are you talking about?

>>40536608
> An action needs to be efficient in achieving a goal - as I pointed out veganism is far less effective at minimizing suffering than many other things. Just shopping only for local goods and foods has more of an effect. Contributing to corruption, explotation, polluting the seas and causing all manner of mayhem - so you can have a computer is only utilitarian if you are reasonably sure you will use it to end a huge portion of human suffering. Otherwise it's an hedonic choice.

If the only thing you change is to move your diet to a vegan diet (but remain the same in all other aspects) you have indeed decreased suffering and increased pleasure as Bentham would have called it. As for J. S. Mill and his qualitative utilitarianism would also say that a society in which ethical values such as avoiding undue suffering has its own intrinsic value.

In the utilitarian perspective, veganism wins.

> Black or white - let justice be done even if the heavens fall, as they say. If you subscribe to this then throw your computer/phone in the trash, burn down your house and move to the woods.

Immanuel Kant argues in favor of natural law because humans have rationality. It is easy to understand this rationality as conciousness, ie it is immoral to perform actions that inflict external heteronomy onto the individual, and especially if the action cannot be generalized to law etc. Animals have conciousness so the idea supporting natural law would also apply to them; if you disagree and you state that they are too "dumb" to get rights, then what about a handicapped person? if he is a mental 3 year old (which is the same cognitive level as a grown pig) is it then moral to kill and eat him for food?

>>40536632
what's wrong with going to the local butcher?

>>40536666
*his been vegan over a year and have been breaking new pr's constantly

I didn't know Filthy Frank lifted.

>>40536412
>What do you mean by "all the usual deficiencies vegans get"?

Veganism causes b12 deficiency:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

Veganism causes d3 and calcium deficiency:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Vegans are deficient in omega threes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323085

Vegans are deficit in carnitine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2756917
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928

Vegans are deficient in taurine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3354491

Vegans are deficient in iodine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354

Vegans are deficient in Coenzyme Q10:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873950

>>40536664
>I pretty much affirmed your argument, yet you accuse me of making excuses?
Elaborate how it isn't a excuse
You avoiding the question and used question deflection
>For whom?
Yourself
>whom
Autism

>>40536311
Nigga didn't start vegan, he changed his diet about a couple of months ago. I wonder what he ate during that time to get most of his gains. Omnivore diets > meme diets

>>40536685
Nothing at all
But vegans think everyone gets their meat from the supermarket.

Rednecks and hillbillies are known for hunting and killing their food

>>40536632

Most of the third world have scarce/limited access to meat. Increased prosperity in third world countries increase meat consumption which again increases lifestyle diseases.

>>40536689
>Definitely not roids or genetics, its his vegan diet goy. Put down that chicken and buy my organic, gluten free, grass fed eggplants

>>40536739
>Most of the third world have scarce/limited access to meat.
Innuts, Amazon and African tribes prove you wrong.
And they are below third world

>>40536731

Yeah I'm sure you (and every other meat eater out there) hunt and kill your own food. Its not like your main source of meat is the factory farmed meat found at your closest super market. Nope. You hunt your own food.

Gimme a fucking break

>>40536739
>people live longer
>therefore more of them die of cancer and heart attack instead of non-age related inflictions
>this is the meat's fault

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>>40536311
You might want to be vegan, but your vegetables do not. Plants need meat. Crops require manure and blood and bone to thrive. Flora has evolved for billions of years to coexist with the fauna that feeds on them by feeding back on the animals once they have died and are reclaimed by the soil.
Then humans came along and invented agriculture. We started selectively breeding crops to produce bigger and sweeter edibles, whether grain, leaf, fruit, or root. We bred freaks of nature to sustain our populations. But nothing comes from nothing. These freaks of nature that are greatly more nutritious to us have greater nutritional demands themselves. They put strain on the soil that could not be sustainable under a wild condition. What could by chance wander into them and shit or die at their feet and decay into the soil would still be insufficient to nourish them. They require human intervention. They require the procuring of plentiful carnal supplements.
We could stop eating animals, but we would still need to butcher them to feed our vegan diets. It makes no sense to do that when so much of the animal is perfectly, even superiorly in many aspects compared to plants, nutritious for us.

>>40536759

Oh, I'm sorry. When you said 2/3 and stuff like that I thought we were talking about whole populations? Or are we talking about about super adaptation in isolated tribes/communities? Make up your mind

>>40536760
>How dare you poke holes in my argument
>muh begging the question fallacy
>give me a break
Hmmm

>>40536311
I dont have to.. I just dont care about animals.

>>40536713
Elaborate why you're making that argument against veganism, retard. I'm not in a position where I'd have to make excuses.

>>40536806
>No U elaborate
Yep lol

>>40536679
>If the only thing you change is to move your diet to a vegan diet (but remain the same in all other aspects) you have indeed decreased suffering and increased pleasure as Bentham would have called it.
You assume that only action is an ethical choice, inaction is as much one. Resource allocation, monetay/physical/mental, is also an ethical choice.

>it is immoral to perform actions that inflict external heteronomy onto the individual
I would only agree if people and animals were by nature rational. Humans try from time to time, animals don't care.
>if you disagree and you state that they are too "dumb" to get rights, then what about a handicapped person? if he is a mental 3 year old (which is the same cognitive level as a grown pig) is it then moral to kill and eat him for food.
From an utilitarian perspective? Yes. The only reason we don't is because he reminds us too much of ourselves. Maintaining human sanity and conditioning empathy, from a purely psychological perspective, has it's value.

>>40536778
>Oh, I'm sorry. When you said 2/3 and stuff like that I thought we were talking about whole populations? Or are we talking about about super adaptation in isolated tribes/communities?
We are talking about how eating meat is natural

But on the topic of super adaptation tribes and community's
How come none are vegan?

>>40536821
fuck off, troll

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>>40536487
>WOOOWWWWW
>HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT WOULD HAPPEN?
>this plant is bugged

>>40536822
>I would only agree if people and animals were by nature rational. Humans try from time to time, animals don't care.

Then you either havent read Kant or you havent understood him fully. Who are you referring to when you are talking about moral absolutism besides Kant?

> You assume that only action is an ethical choice, inaction is as much one. Resource allocation, monetay/physical/mental, is also an ethical choice.

Is buying vegetables instead of meat a specitic action, or is the avoidance of meat inaction?

Whatever you do that increased pleasure (like not buying meat so the demand for animals decrease) is more moral than not doing it.

>>40536854
>REEEEEE
Still waiting on that elaboration
Stop avoiding it

>>40536311
You don't HAVE to, I grant you that.

But some of us just don't give a shit.

>>40536859
>No Carlos pic
Disappointed

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>>40536903
I think you missed the joke

>>40536570
>>40536879

There's more than 1 vegan in this thread. I'll see if I can give you an explanation.

You state (as an argument against veganism) that the diet wouldn't sustain you in the wild. Fair enough, that true. But it is only a valid point if you LIVE IN THE WILD.

Because all people (where I live) get their foods from stores and supermarkets, the "wild"-argument against veganism is weak because it has no relevance. you cannot say that veganism is flawed because it cannot sustain a man in the wild when most of the worlds population live in big cities and most meat comes from factory farming.

Your argument wasn't avoided, it was ignored because it is so incredibly shitty and bad.

>>40536920
That was a joke?
Boo! lame

I got a better one

Why didn't the lifeguard save the hippie?

Because he was too far out man

>>40536944
It was a reference.

Do some research on the guy in the picture.

What kind of country would America be if everyone drove a pink car?

A pink-car nation!

>>40536933
>There's more than 1 vegan in this thread.
Prove it

You state (as an argument against veganism) that the diet wouldn't sustain you in the wild. Fair enough, that true. But it is only a valid point if you LIVE IN THE WILD.
So you admit it isn't a natural diet?
Glad we agree

>Because all people (where I live) get their foods from stores and supermarkets, the "wild"-argument against veganism is weak because it has no relevance.
Prove it
>you cannot say that veganism is flawed because it cannot sustain a man in the wild when most of the worlds population live in big cities and most meat comes from factory farming.
Yes, you can
Because it isn't natural
If it wasn't the human body wouldn't be able to process meat
But going by you logic the same applies to Vegans that don't grow their own food and how most vegetables come from the supermarket.

>Your argument wasn't avoided, it was ignored because it is so incredibly shitty and bad.
That's a funny way of saying you are wrong and then admit you avoided my argument because it triggered you lol

>>40536968
>It was a reference.
>Do some research on the guy in the picture.
Nah

Why don't some couples go to the gym?

Because some relationships dont workout

>>40536867
>Then you either havent read Kant or you havent understood him fully.
Because I'm not allowed to disagree with Kant. He also isn't the only one to deal in this: for example the Suffi take on the concept of Niyyah is similar in his definition of good.

>Is buying vegetables instead of meat a specitic action, or is the avoidance of meat inaction?
I was talking about choosing to do any of the other things I listed that have more of an effect on the world or just even animal suffering.

>>40536994
>So you admit it isn't a natural diet?

What is a "natural diet"? Is cooked meat natural? Last time I checked, lions didnt eat cooked meat. But hey, if what happens in nature is the measuring stick for all that is correct maybe we should kill all the kids of our next girlfriends, because thats what lions do? Or maybe we should rape a lot because thats only natural right, I mean baboons rape a lot. They are natural. Rape must be natural then.

The natural-argument sucks because humans are capable of rational thought and technological advancements that makes "natural diets" obsolete.

> Prove it
> Prove it

Prove to me the easter bunny doesn't exist.

> If it wasn't the human body wouldn't be able to process meat

We are having troubles processing meat. What do you think atherosclerosis is? Jesus christ dude. Why doesn't lions have atherosclerosis? Because they are adapted to eating meat.

> That's a funny way of saying you are wrong and then admit you avoided my argument because it triggered you lol

I didnt get triggered, I felt like avoiding your argument since its so bad. But since you insisted I caved I guess.

>>40537051
Humans wouldnt have sharp teeth if we weren't evolved to be omnivores, we cooked our meat because we are smart and innovate and as a result can no longer eat it raw. Atherosclerosis seems to be a build up of fatty materials in the arteries, something thats not necessarily from eating meat, just fatty foods. Meat has fat in in it because it is from a animal and animals have fat in it. There are arguments for Veganism and eating meat, but really it all boils down to whether or not you care if some animal who isn't going to appreciate or notice that it isn't being nurtured to be slaughtered.

>>40536311
the guy on the right also has more FUNCTIONAL strength than that vegan harry potter

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>superstar running back
>cucked into veganism by his GF a couple of years into his NFL career
>next couple years is plagued by injuries and poor performance
>retired in disgrace last year

Veganism. Not even once, lads.

>>40537114
>Humans wouldnt have sharp teeth if we weren't evolved to be omnivores

With the exception of rodents, rabbits, and pikas, nearly all mammals have canine teeth. In fact, several herbivores and primary plant-eaters have canine teeth such as hippos, gorillas, the saber toothed deer, gelada baboons, camels, the javelina. google them if you dont believe me.

> we cooked our meat because we are smart and innovate and as a result can no longer eat it raw

but isnt uncooked meat unnatural? or, is it ok to process our foods now and still call it natural? if your diet consists of raw vegetable (like raw veganism) isnt that MORE natural than your cooked meat? since that diet is more closer to nature?

> Atherosclerosis seems to be a build up of fatty materials in the arteries, something thats not necessarily from eating meat, just fatty foods

Only herbivores get atherosclerosis bro

> it all boils down to whether or not you care if some animal who isn't going to appreciate or notice that it isn't being nurtured to be slaughtered

Thats where human rationality and compassion intersect.

>>40537114
> Atherosclerosis seems to be a build up of fatty materials in the arteries, something thats not necessarily from eating meat, just fatty foods. Meat has fat in in it because it is from a animal and animals have fat in it.

From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/

> Is atherosclerosis a disease affecting all animals or only certain animals?
> Atherosclerosis affects only herbivores. Dogs, cats, tigers, and lions can be saturated with fat and cholesterol, and atherosclerotic plaques do not develop (1, 2). The only way to produce atherosclerosis in a carnivore is to take out the thyroid gland; then, for some reason, saturated fat and cholesterol have the same effect as in herbivores.

Plants talk to me.

They're hurting. Please be concerted when walking on or cutting your grass.

Thank you.

>>40537244

By that reasoning, shouldn't you cut out meat? Since you have to feed plants to cattle, so you're essentially causing suffering to plants and cattle. If you only eat plants, you cut out the suffering of the cattle

>>40537262
every living organism is destroying earth.

t. indian blessed with ancient powers

>>40537276

Sounds like jain vegetarianism. They take it to the extreme, but they are also religious tbf

>>40536311
If everyone were vegan, domesticated cows would go extinct. I'm pro-cow; therefore, I'm anti-vegan.

>>40537362

Domesticated cows are so far removed from their natural starting point that there is no value besides their ability to grow at a rapid pace. Besides, cows would exist for example in shelters etc (as they do now as well). Your argument is wrong.

>>40536311
No I don't but I don't care about the animals because they taste good
Now fuck off

>>40537421

wow so manly you are, have to pay people to exploit and kill animals. im sure your mother is proud of how her son grew up.

Vegans are trolls. Pay them no attention as nutrient deficiency has destroyed their mental faculties.

What if I don't give a flying fuck about tortured animals, and I only eat chicken/fish for my meat source. So that red meat is bad argument is out.

I can't see any reason to go vegan.

>>40537454
>What if I don't give a flying fuck about tortured animals

Then you are immoral and without compassion.

>>40537433
She isn't but it's not because I eat meat, in fact if I didn't eat meat she'd literally call me a faggot only in her mother tongue

>>40537220
Not this shit again

if you look at the first source he gives, it's an autistic rant by some cardiologist with no sources and some handwave-y esoteric mumbo-jumbo about humans evolving as 'one of three'

>>40537479
everyone on the world knows animals don't have the best living conditions in those places and are treated poorly. Doesn't phase the majority of people because they aren't little pussies

>>40537525
>Doesn't phase the majority of people because they aren't little pussies

On what planet are conciously treating animals manly?

>>40537542
>On what planet are conciously treating animals manly?

What was he getting at here?

>>40536311
Too bad for fags like you I LIKE torturing and eating animals

>>40537542
Do vegans cry when wild animals don't kill their prey in humane ways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtVXFonpaWo

I put my own race above all, animals are simply livestock

without animals we would have metal to work out...baka

>>40537574
i just redirect vegans to /r/natureismetal when they keep saying that animals are innocent

>>40536311
>You don't have to torture and kill animals to get good gains
I totally agree. That's why I only eat meat that someone else tortured and killed. It saves me a lot of time and energy.

>>40537574

I dunno man, why dont you go to the dog meat festival in china and see if that phases you or not.

Meatards are the worst kind of stupid

>>40537587

What you don't seem to grasp is the enormity of human induced suffering, simple because the demand for meat is litteraly unstoppable. Suffering in nature is not the same thing as undue suffering created by factory farming.

jesus christ you people are so dense

i go buy raw beef from the grocery store and throw it in the trash for lols.

>>40537610
lol I'll gladly eat dog meat

I grew up on a farm, I've seen some shit.

>>40537650
i bet the guards at auschwitz also got desensitized after a while

>>40537574
Looks yummy

>>40537610
I've tried dog. It taste really good actually.

Wish they would sell it in the states.

Dogs and great apes are the only animals which deserve human empathy

>>40536311
They could either die in a slaughter house ,which is quick and painless, after a life of stuffing their faces constantly or they could die a natural death which is guaranteed to be far more painful than what they currently go through. A natural death means dying of a horrible disease, starving, or being eaten alive by predators. Or are you suggesting we should kill all livestock? Or maybe we should force them to live their entire lives in captivity.

All these people and their "righteousness."

>>40536311
Yes i do.
Excuse me im going to eat some chicken now.

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>need meat in my diet to bulk up
>animal lover
>can't eat burgers or chicken cause I don't like hurting innocent creatures
>decide to eat sluts
>ACHIEVE MASSIVE GAINS
Would vegans be opposed to this diet?

ITT: Big strong men defending the abuse of defenseless animals

>>40536311
Yes you do. Go away gains goblin.

>>40537992
>cows
>defenseless
Don't fuck with cows man

>>40537992
Shouldn't you be outside rescuing some defenseless bunnies from wolves

From all vegans I see they are either jacked roiders or dyels

is there an inbetween

>>40536627
>Who wouldn't kill an animal to stay alive?

We agree that animal suffering is less important than human suffering. All we disagree on is how much less important it is, and on the varieties of human suffering that justify animal suffering as a remedy.

>>40536311
>torcher and kill
A bullet is fairly quick and painless
>he doesnt hunt

>>40536311

>"Eating ethically"

>95% of your practitioners look like malnourished twigs

mmm, really gets the neurons firing.

>>40536311
>You don't have to torture and kill animals to get good gains
other people do it for me, so it's all good
some kid was tortured so you could get those Nikes and cellphone of yours. How do you feel with that? Or do you care only about animals?

>>40536311
Why are vegans so vegans. Could they shut up.

>>40538159
>We agree that animal suffering is less important than human suffering
most vegans think it's the other way around

>>40537656

Eating meat is basically anudda Shoah at this point...vegan logic.

>>40538205

I heard it explained the best but I can't remember who said it.

Veganism is hard, it's a real challenge to not eat the foods that everyone wants and likes. Furthermore just to get daily caloric intake to a healthy level, vegans have to sit around eating for a far longer period than meat eaters. Fruits, veggies, and various carbs have low calories but are very voluminous and dense, so you must eat a lot.

Knowing these things and the challenge of veganism, it's no wonder that vegans are so absolutely obnoxious with their identity. Just eating enough is a challenge for them. It basically takes over their entire life, friends, and social circles, it becomes centered around what you can eat.

Combine that with a "I'm holier than thou" feeling, and it's no wonder that vegans have become one of the worst phenomenons on the internet. For every one healthy vegan bodybuilder, there are 99 who are unhealthy, sickly, deficient, and malnourished.

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>>40536311
ON TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN BABY
Vegays are faggots though.

>>40536375
Why do you have to be such a faggot about farming? They're fucking livestock, who gives a shit about the cows and chickens. They exist solely to feed me

>literally a guy who's been vegan for less than a year and on loads of steroids

Why do vegans literally always choose steroid users for their propaganda?

>>40536311
Is there some vegan athlete/bodybuilder who was like that since the beginning of their training? All these examples they put out are of people who switch to veganism well into their careers

>>40536311
So eating meat for 20+ years and training hard for years has nothing to do with his current lifts? THey'll all thanks for his new 4 month in Vegan diet? KYS. What I think is happening to all these dudes going Vegan is after years of 'performance enhancing products' their health is starting to come into question so they turn to veganism to try and offset the many side effects. Most successful vegan lifting became Vegan AFTER years and years of eating meat and training. Look at VG, after 8+ years of lifting that's what he looks like. He probably can't even squat over 315.
>people go Vegan after years and years of good food and training
>People go Vegan to try and offset use of gear
>True Vegans who have been Vegan 90% of their life look like shit

>>40536311
The gains aren't as satisfying without a blood sacrifice

I don't give a raw fuck about da poor widdle animals

I demand to eat them

>>40536711
i love how this post gets ignored.
also i'm sick of these threads, if anyone really cared, they would simply push for people to stop eating beef, as it TOTALLY eclipses the damage done both environmentally and per pound of animal life. i would consider going pesca if anything but you guys are ridiculous.
i have 3 horses, a cow, 6 dogs, 3 cats and 2 goats. i would slaughter and kill an animal in front of them if i had to in order to survive, i don't understand. i eat meat because it's good for me in certain quantities and i desire it. the fact that my body craves it's nutrients should be the only defense i should have to give.

>>40536311
I don't give a fuck it's still better for feeding muscle and more pleasurable to eat. I don't give a shit about lower life forms beyond not exterminating entire species. Otherwise, fuck them and you. Faggot.

>>40538372

>steron

Come on, Isley. Clarence has been lifting for 7 or 8 years consistently now, it's not unbelievable that he has the amount of strength he does.

>>40538682
Well you like in 2017 and have Internet access. It would be safe to say you don't need to "survive". Basically vegans are that way because they have a choice. Obviously if we lived back in the end of all days there would be no such thing as veganism but we live in a world where everything is given to you so there is no need to kill animals when you can eat vegetables and take suppliments. I think veganism is stupid and I love meat no homo. But you're an idiot if you think it's bad for anyone. For most of the population in America we don't need to be strong for any reason. We have machines to do stuff for us but some retards keep lifting and trying to get stronger. You don't think they're dumb, do you?

>>40538703
He weights 100 kg lean at 178 cm. Keep believing is just consistency and hard work.

>>40536311
Of course not. I have other people that do that shit for me.

>>40538682
most of those links are garbage. the dude who posted it didnt actually read his studies, and you didn't either

>>40536311
The guy on the left will die at the age of 50 due to his rampant PED usage.

The guy on the right will die at 55 due to his rampant fast food binging and sedentary life style.

>>40538336
Having lived on a farm I can tell you that the quality of meat and eggs you get from ethically treated animals is far better than the ones you normally get.
Thicker shells and darker yolks are usually indicators of good health in laying hens, and pork is not supposed to be white like it is in stores.
I have no problems at all with having livestock animals, but the vitamins and amino acids are lacking in the unhealthy products we get in more superstores.

>>40538928
Okay horsefucker

>>40538975
Horses are terrible animals. They tear up your grass, wreck your fences, and you're not supposed to eat them.

>>40536311
Neither of them are healthy.
And neither of them are vegan. Remember folks, steroids aren't vegan.

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>>40538682
>i love how this post gets ignored.
Because it's shit
>if anyone really cared, they would simply push for people to stop eating beef, as it TOTALLY eclipses the damage done both environmentally and per pound of animal life.
Environmentally, yes, with two BUTs:
1) As far as the environmental sustainability argument for veganism goes: If everyone simply stopped eating beef, they would offset the "benefit" by replacing beef with pork or chicken, not grains and beans, unless they were properly educated
2) This does not adress the ethical and health arguments for veganism.
>i would consider going pesca if anything but
Go pesca then! Nobody's stopping you!
> you guys are ridiculous.
What exactly is "ridiculous"? Eating Beans, Grains, seitan, tofu, tempeh, nuts, nut butter, fruits and veggies is ridiculous?
>i have 3 horses, a cow, 6 dogs, 3 cats and 2 goats. i would slaughter and kill an animal in front of them if i had to in order to survive
1) I have a dog and have had many cats and I have killed fish, cuttlefish and octopuses. What's your point?
2) Since you seem to have at least a PC and internet, pretty sure you don't "have to kill to survive". If you find yourself in a position where you "need to kill to survive" then please by all means do.
>i eat meat because it's good for me in certain quantities and i desire it
It's really not that good for you, I mean it has some good parts, like protein, that other foods have, and it has some bad parts, like cholesterol and estrogen, that plant foods don't have
ib4 ">soy has phytoestrogens too", phytoestrogens are weak estrogen-like compounds that your estrogen receptors confuse for the real thing, bind to them and then don't bind on actual cow estrogen which is carcinogenic and reduces testosterone
>The fact that my body craves it's nutrients should be the only defense i should have to give.
pic related

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>>40537574
>Do vegans cry when wild animals don't kill their prey in humane ways
Nah who cares, it doesn't happen in the comfort of my house anyway
>I put my own race above all, animals are simply livestock
See if you can count the edges there

People get way too defensive with vegans
Aslong as they aren't stopping me eating meat i don't care what they do

Personally the pleasure i get from meat justifies the process of producing it to me - and i'm totally at peace with this decision

>>40536311
>le torture meme

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>>40539691
Left: Pig castrated shortly after birth, no anaesthetic
Right: Cow dehorned, no anesthetic
>meme

>>40537986
>tfw dolcett is my fetish would love to smash and then eat hot sluts every day
>coaching your own bitch and then fucking slaughter her to literally take her gains

>>40536711
Did you actually look at any of the links?

>>40537624
This is a cringey post. I love "pet" animals so much...but I have killed and eaten chickens and numerous wild game. It's always a good experience to hunt kill clean and cook something. Also I eat mostly "organic" farm raised meats when I buy meats. How are you so tender???

>>40539916
>How are you so tender???
He's been fed up on a nice grain and plant diet. I'd say he's just about ready for harvesting.

>>40539916
>This is a cringey post.
Yours too
>I love "pet" animals so much...but I have killed and eaten chickens and numerous wild game.
That's cognitive dissonance
>It's always a good experience to hunt kill clean and cook something.
For few people and definitely not for the animal.
>Also I eat mostly "organic" farm raised meats when I buy meats.
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/free-range-organic-meat-myths/
>How are you so tender???
Cringe

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>>40536311
Yeah, but I want to.

>>40538294
Please post this on reddit.com/r/veganism

would rile up so many vegans top bait 10/10

>>40536348
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKiGjQvFN44#t=05m0s

Lets settle this, in 2 seconds

>>40536430
It wasn't so much an ad hominem as it was poking fun at the idea that animals suffer horribly, which is wrong btw

>>40540493
>which is wrong btw

no it isnt btw the suffering and murder of billions of sentient being every year is one of humanities worst atrocities to date. In 100 or 200 years people will look back at this period in time with disgust because of it.

>>40540493
>which is wrong btw
???
Really now, you clearly don't know anything about the industry.

t.
Someone who actually worked in slaughterhouses.

>>40540654
lmfao you actually think that fucking 7+ billion people are actually going to give up meat..

Because it is "morally wrong". holy shit, this is the most delusional post i've ever seen on 4chan.

>>40539296
>unless they were properly educated
Spoken like a true libcuck progressive

>>40537587
Animals in nature also rape each other, so it must be ok for me to fuck your dog by that logic.

I remember seeing something about how much land and resources raising animals for slaughter ends up costing in comparison to the meat output and it actually made me think about veganism as a legit thing for a second.

That should be the way vegans argue this, not "mah animals" but if you can give me some cold hard evidence that the meat industry is mostly a drain on resources I'll be way more interested in your point.

Kek
U fags can only have this conversation because your ancestors ate meat which gave their brains the nutrients to develop.

Furthermore, you need to ask whether all animals are sentient or if they're operating on instinctual programming.

>>40540716

I don't think people "will give up meat". I think factory farmed meat will be phased out with syntetic meat. The moral argument is too advanced for your microscopic brain I guess

>>40540809
Its fairly well established that the idea that animals are "breathing automatons" is obsolete. Most mammals have a conciousness that is comparable to human conciousness.

>>40540773
> That should be the way vegans argue this, not "mah animals" but if you can give me some cold hard evidence that the meat industry is mostly a drain on resources I'll be way more interested in your point.

The ecology/enviromentalist argument is one of three (whereas the two other are the moral and the health arguments). If you want to learn more about the enviromental aspect of veganism check out the documentary cowspiracy. The health aspect if fairly well detailed in forks over knives.

>>40541035
Will do.

>>40541003
>The moral argument
Cheaper mass farmed meat is much more in demand than the humane alternatives. People care about the price, they don't care about treatment of the animals and that isn't going to change any time soon.

People will only switch to synthetic meat if it cheaper than the mass produced meat.

>>40541062
>People will only switch to synthetic meat if it cheaper than the mass produced meat.

Obviously it will be.

> they don't care about treatment of the animals and that isn't going to change any time soon.

I disagree. Even China is starting to implement animal welfare laws now because of consumer demand. The awareness is slowly increasing. But I guess synthetic meat will be cheap enough to out-compete real meat before any meaningful change occurs because of moral reason (But they do happen, look at the abandonment of slavery, feudalism, the strong growth of human rights etc)

>>40540773
>the meat industry is mostly a drain on resources

That isn't a compelling argument, either. Meat is delicious and worth the resource investment.

>>40540773
Public libraries are are a drain on resources. Bars and clubs are a drain on resources. Old people homes and orphanages are a drain on resources.

Every fucking thing is a drain on resources. Nothing happens in the universe without either destruction or decay.

>>40539855
>Not eating a diet of 100% twink cock so they can finally get to be a part of something masculine.
Never going to make it.

>>40536443
Hurhur

Most of the people who have died climbing Everest have been omnivores/non-vegan

Fucking idiot

>>40536311
Clearance is a monster, he also on roids now. I eat fish and heavy amount of greens and avocados, who gives a flying fuck about salmon? Fuck you for judging me, I hope sentient plant life comes to this planet and kills you