Is veganism healthy?

not even a little bit
babies fed on milk from a vegan mother die from malnutrition

>>40366014
The studies say no.

>>40366015
This is the most laughably ridiculous thing I've ever read in one of these vegan threads.

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>>40366014
>AYO SHE GOT A FACE LIKE A HAM AND A BODY LIKE DA HOLLACAUST

>>40366014
Look at his fucked up ass and tell me. Get this man a butter fried steak

Does that creature look healthy to you?

>>40366014
Wanted to post that article about a vegan woman who wanted to show how veganism is cool by climbing Mt. Everest
She died.

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>>40366015
>meat eater logic

>>40366016
What studies? Vegans have the smallest negative impact on environment, the smallest obesity rates, the strongest hearts and the overall healthiest lives.

>>40366018
>she
>beard

>>40366019
>man
>implying

>>40366128
this argument right here is so retarded
using kale as an example
4,3 grams per 100 gram, i can easy eat a steak around 300 grams+, and would hit 60 grams of protein, so if i want to reduce my calorie intake i should just grab 1-2kg of kale next time?

>>40366017
case for the brest milk
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371172/French-vegan-couple-face-jail-child-neglect-baby-died-vitamin-deficiency.html

in other cases hospitals were able to save the children. last summer there was some case IIRC

>>40366128
>Vegans have the smallest negative impact on environment
because they are the minority. what do you think would happen if everyone switched to vegan?

>>40366014
where is its chin?

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>>40366144
Uhh, xhe identifies xherself as nonbinary, shitlord. Xhe can have whatever facial hair xhe wants

It's fucking 2017. I thought we were better than this

>>40366014
lmao someone tell this nigga the hall of cost ended and feed him

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>>40366188
>waaaaaaaaaa kill more animals waaaaaaaa I am too weak to chew a little bit more waaaaaaaaa

>>40366193
bullshit argument, read every single source out there, veganism is the best way for our environment

>>40366193
Humans would stop over producing livestock and the energy used to kill and transport animals would greatly decrease. Methane levels would decrease and food supplies would increase since there aren't 1.5 billion cows eating and shitting up the planet.

>>40366263
and how would you grow vegan food that is not even 1/3 in calories in place of those 1.5 billion cows?

>>40366188
there is a video i need to find it. basically a vegan tries to prove a point with protein and eats like a gigantic pile of salat. like kilos of it. ther person sits there for like an hour and suffers through that pile to prove its viable.

>>40366222
I'm a vegetarian and this argument is retarded.
100 calories of broccoli is much more massive than 100 calories of beef, thus harder to consume in large quantities.

>>40366222
alright then, im sure next time i want to make a meal with around 75gram of protein i will cook 3kg Broccoli, im sure the vitamin overdose is just good for me yeah? also 3kg of broccoli must be nothing compared to a 300 gram steak for my stomach right?
Cmon lad use atleast a better alternative than these, Beans can be used more effectively than these vegetables that u need a couple of kilos to get a decent protein amount.
Or just use the argument that we dont need that much protein anyway.

I have been eating around 400 grams of meat 3-4 times a week for 2 years now, i know its not really healthy, but please show me an example of someone who is not a cow that eats around 10 kg broccoli every week for multiple years

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>>40366305
>>40366327

Then it something like pic related.

>>40366338
*eat

>>40366294
exactly, its retarded that they use this argument, they should use beans or vegan protein powder as an argument, i dont care if people go vegan or not, and i understand some of the risk of meat,
but pretending that eating food with less than 5% protein per 100gram is an viable option to get 50grams+ a meal is just a really idiotic argument at this point
>>40366327
pretty much this

>>40366338
>PB&J
>2017

Diabetes

>>40366338
Exactly! thats the kind of stuff they should preach! im still gonna eat meat, but that makes 100x more sense.

>>40366327
im this guy btw

>>40366014
Standard Western Diet < Average Vegan Diet < Well Rounded Healthy Diet. Dozens of meme diets are better than the shit that most people eat, but calling them "healthy" is misleading.

>>40366263
So the solution is to let 1.5 billion domesticated animals run into extinction because we stop rearing them, wait several years until their grazing ground becomes viable as farmland. All this while altering current farm plots to be suitable for crops that would make the diet optimal for mass populations, poisoning water systems quicker, and increasing transportation usage to ensure enough of the foods are able to reach the consumer since the standard diet would know include multiple kilos of various veggies per person per day.

Surely this will be the zenith of the moral, health and environmental ages of man.

>>40366192
>daily mail article

>you cant spell breast

kys

>>40366283
The argument is about the environmental impact growing livestock has compared to vegetables and grains.
But to answer your derailing question.
It takes aprox. 2 acres of land grow enough to feed a cow every year in preparation to be slaughtered.
It only takes 1 acre of land to grow enough to nutritiously feed a human for a year.
So if we're looking at this from view of pure efficiency, we're wasting an acre for every cow we raise. An acre that could be used to grow even more grains and vegetables, or left alone to create habitats for wildlife and trees to filter our carbon.

>>40366387
>killing/raping innocent animals
>MMXVII

kill yourself

>>40366431
but 1 cow feeds more than 1 human

>>40366456
>1 cow is enough to feed one human a whole year

you just provd that meat causes brain cancer

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>>40366415
hey have the guardian then :^) theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/vegans-trial-death-baby-breast-milk

i just picked the first in google and that doesn't make it any less true

>>40366469
Hey dude, >>40366456 has a point. You can feed a family of four off of a cow for a year.
My point is that you need both that cow and nutrients that you can't find in cows, so it's inefficient to raise both. You can still get all the nutrients you need off less land, then use the land saved from not raising cattle to produce excess food with a lower environmental impact.

>>40366014
I'll be the veg fag who argues for it. I think meat should be more expensive because of factory farming being fucked up. I am aware of how delicious meat is and it is nutritionally convenient but it is by no means sustainable for everyone to eat meat as a central part of a meal.

Beans and rice is cheap AF anyway and its a complete protein. Great cardiovascular shape, I take a B12 supplement and that's it.

Also, fish oil is overhyped boys.

>>40366456
i was mainly talking about the milk. and when it gets slaughtered it's a decent amount of meat too.

>>40366193
The lifestyle has the smallest carbon footprint, retard.

>>40366539
Meat eaters are just manchildren who are too weakwilled to give up meat, don't mind them.

>>40366536
>>40366469

>>40366338
>using Maccy's hamburger as a benchmark for nutrition

>>40366539
not until majority of the people get gas from shitty vegan food and start farting

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>>40366588
>this meat eater logic
>this are the people who give you advice

>>40366456 google says a cow at slaughter is around 720 kg so if we just use 50% of the mass for meat (and ignore stuff life soup/stock from bones) we still have almost 1 kg per day for meat. so he is kind of right...

>>40366612
>the only alternative to vegan food is shitty fastfood
WRONG

WRONG

WRONG

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>>40366641
meat is produced by torturing/raping animals therefore it is always bad

>>40366641
don't you get it vegan just love straw men

>It's okay to be pro-abortion and vegan
>Abortions are vegan
Vegans have no internal sense of right and wrong; they parrot junk ethics the same way they parrot junk science. Never let a vegan convince you they have the moral high ground, because they are incapable of occupying any moral ground, high or low. Protecting unfertilized chicken eggs is a higher priority to those people than human life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqiJA5H_wIY

>>40366668
I'm not a fan of factory farming either, so I choose alternatives.

Also, your infographic is misleading it should be expressed as protein/100g.
At the very least it should say that is protein/calories

>>40366713
Technically it's not misleading. It's just using a metric nobody uses

>>40366668
What do these numbers mean? Afaik cucumbers have a gram (literally 1) of protein per 100g cucumber. Am I supposed to eat 5 kilos of that stuff?

>>40366703
>nobody said anything about abortion
>cannot deny that vegans live healthier and longer than meat eaters
>cannot deny that their impact on environment is smaller
>b-but I found this video about abortion
>t-therefore I-I'm r-right

fucking kys already with your strawmans

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>>40366703
just look at this woman. you can clearly see that she is unhealthy not only physically but mentally.

why would anyone want to do this to themselves?

>>40366556
this

>>40366668

The protein found in spinach is an incomplete source of protein, meaning it does not contain all nine essential amino acids like a complete source of protein does. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, and there are more than 20 different amino acids. Nine of these are essential amino acids, which are not made by the body and must come from dietary sources. Vegetable and plant sources of protein are generally incomplete sources of protein, while animal protein is generally a complete source of protein. Foods that are not complete sources of protein, such as spinach, should not be ignored due to the other nutrients they provide, but it is important to also consume food containing complete protein sources. This is generally easily accomplished by following a well-balanced diet.

>>40366739
It IS misleading since it is stated in law that it must be expressed /100g (in the EU, but I imagine it might be the same in the US)

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The Lord gave cattle to eat and provide nourishment.

>>40366703
wow where to start.
So both of these ideologies boil down to consent and whose life is more affected.
In the case of slaughtering animals, the life of the animal is more affected than the life of the human. The animal cannot consent to being slaughtered (and likely wouldn't if it could). This is Wrong.
In the case of abortion, the life of the pregnant woman is more affected than the POTENTIAL life of the fetus. The woman has more to lose if she cannot support the baby or give birth to it safely. Since she is the one who has the most to gain/lose by the abortion, she is the one who is in the position to consent.

>>40366772
You can also just eat more then one protein source a day (which you should do anyway). So that is not an valid excuse imo.

>>40366094
lots of meat eaters die on Everest too

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>>40366222
it's already hard enough to eat enough protein when I'm eating things I enjoy and as if that isn't already a good enough argument (which it is because nobody has infinite motivation) proteins are just amino acids, there are 20 amino acids and 9 essential amino acids. An essential amino acid is an amino acid which must be consumed and cannot be produced by the body from other nutrients. Meats contain all 9 essential amino acids, vegetables do not.

You cannot get all the protein nutrients you need for a $wole body from vegetables. This is an unfortunate truth and thinking otherwise is delusional.

http://www.builtlean.com/2012/10/03/complete-vs-incomplete-protein-sources/

>>40366412
Vegans BTFO

>>40366745
Here she is eating 5lb of spinach to get the protein equivalent of a small chicken breast. I'm surprised more of these idiots don't show up on the competitive eating scene given how often they stretch their stomach to the point where it visibly bulges outward. The banana girl one that Scooby made fun of a few years ago will eat 10+ in one sitting and looks pregnant by the time she's done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4s1I13tmQM

>>40366014
pescatarian, aka

>vegetarian + eggs + fish

is objectively the healthiest diet for humans

>>40366872
i'm not vegan but getting protein from legumes is easy as fuck and more filling than meat

>>40366822
I know you're just trolling, but if you read that to a real vegan they would probably agree with it and go key someone's car because there's a carton of eggs in the back seat.

>>40366879
48 grams of protein on 2000 calories

>>40366964
there is also vegan protein powder

>>40366014
Read blue zones. Learn from the fuckers that lived to be over a 100 years old

>>40366911
add chicken breasts in there and ya thats me

>>40366745
kek

>>40366014

I hear theres no difference between homosexuality and veganism so just look. Maybe I'm wrong but you're either born vegan or not. Also no being a homosexual isnt healthy. Think about all the fruity drinks you have to order

>>40366094
I don't think veganism caused this, I think women thinking they can into fitness caused this

>>40366935
What are legumes?

I'm only an expert on diet and nutrition as of 5 mins ago so bear with me pls

>>40366283
Most people overconsume food anyways. A lot of countries, not just the United States have high amounts of overweight and obese people.

>>40367187
Beans, peanuts, soybeans, etc.

>>40366668
Only in Islam my friend, not all of us eat Halal shite

>>40366014
/f/armer here

Its been shown that a vegetarian diet can have significant health advantages after a certain age.55+

I raise and grow all my meat, my animals are well fed and healthy they probably live as cush a life as any house animal.

>>40367215
Delusional

>>40366935
>more filling than meat
thats a problem for me
t. hungry skelly

>>40367251
>my animals are well fed and healthy they probably live as cush a life as any house animal
shit, bro. i don't kill my dogs once they hit their prime

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>>40366014

>>40367215
go back to fuck your goats, Ahmed

>>40366485
Not who you replied to, but his point was your citing some shit newspaper to make your claim. Newspapers, regardless of good or bad reputation are all garbage tier sources to cite for any argument as they are barely edited, not peer reviewed by credible experts in a field and consistently are shown to report false or misleading information. That isn't saying every article is wrong but if you want to make a valid, robust argument choose a credible source that is peer reviewed such as something you found from pubmed or nhcb etc

>>40367285
In old times, dogs served as protectors of the homestead. They weren't bred for food. :^)

>>40367256
Veganfag lol. I bet you go to all ages hardcore shows to try to get underage girls to suck your dick out in your van by talking about how vegan and straight edge you are. MAGA.

>>40366485
What's up with all the leftists going against veganism and vegetarianism now? Why do they always have to be wrong about everything?

>>40366527
>fish oil is overhyped boys.
I disagree, the balance of oils in our body for most Western diets is heavily biased towards omega 6, fish oil is a good way of trying to restore some sort of balance which has been pretty conclusively shown to be better for you. Unless you are suggesting another source of omega 3?

Second best diet after keto. If you're not doing one of those two you are retarded

>>40367396
Becaue veganism is inherently a symptom of white privilege and leftys are always trying to pretend that they're not white.

>>40367382
>Implying I'm vegan on the bases of me recognizing that the meat/diary industry is one where animals get tortured.
You're simply delusional/not aware of reality then.

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>>40367396
Being against everything is their credo.

Women and gays have exactly the same rights as men or straight people, therefore they invent dragonkin, HAES and #notallmuslims to still hate society.

>>40366786
> /100g
> what is %
Dude of all the things in this thread to argue about you have chosen possibly the most retarded thing to focus on.... Do you know how percentages work?

Also
> it is stated in law
Laws change in different countries. We are on the internet. We are from different countries.... Even if we were from the same country wtf are you going to do, call the police because someone posted information that by law food manufacturers had to adhere to (not the general public) and to arrest some guy called "anon"..........
Fuck me this place is retarded

>>40367285
Quality of life, I never implied the duration or circumstances of death were similar.

>>40367344
Pubmed wouldn't have an article about that specific event.

>>40367396
>What's up with all the leftists going against veganism and vegetarianism now?
Is this a real thing? Can the right pull in yet another block of nobully voters?

>>40366879
She's kinda irritating and I can't decide if she's trolling by eating about 2 full heads of lettuce, but just got to her stats section.
0.8g/kg protein per day
56g/day for men
She's American, what fucking part of your fat cunt of a country has men averaging a body weight of 56kg??? Does your FDA really think men are 56kg and women are 46kg on average? This confuses me.

Jesus just got to the end, 5bs of lettuce. Does this twit seriously think anyone who has an actual job could consume this on a lunch break and not be locked up/fired for being insane?
Her diet for the day:
1 kg of oranges
0.9 kg of banana
2.2kg of lettuce
0.1g of dates
She actually thinks this is healthy??? Fuck me, this person is delusional

Vegan is shit only animal products have complete amino acids

>>40367567
>what fucking part of your fat cunt of a country has men averaging a body weight of 56kg???
According to the first few search results that converts to 123 lbs, which is significantly below the average for American men. The real number is about 50% higher.

>>40366822
>Implying that whatever the woman has to lose from an abortion is worse than the baby losing its life
Nigga

>>40366014

>stick figure form
>double chin

What sorcery is this?

>>40367670
Estrogens trough the roof from too much soy and shitty diet/no exercise probably.

>>40367567
>She actually thinks this is healthy??? Fuck me, this person is delusional
Extrapolation is a pretty common logical fallacy, and probably the number one reason that people believe veganism is healthy. "Lots of fruit and veg is good for you? That must mean 10-20lbs of it a day is the best for you."

>>40367567
>0.8g/kg protein per day
>56g/day for men
>She's American, what fucking part of your fat cunt of a country has men averaging a body weight of 56kg???
It's 0.8g per kg bodyweight, so that makes the average body weight 56/0.8 = 70kg.

Its 56g of protein not 56kg bodyweight.

>>40367759
wouldn't lots of fruit be bad for you because of all the sugar in it?

>>40367636
Yeah that was my point, she's citing the protein recommended intake from America which suggests they think the average weight of an American man is 56kg. I doubt that's the average weight of high school boys let alone adult men in America.

>>40367807
to be fair, she looks like she is about 30 kg.

>>40367768
Figs or dates maybe, but unless it's been artificially added you aren't going to overload on sugar by eating most fruit. Vegans get fat off of starches and grains.

>>40367762
Can't math. Same same though, my point remains, is there anywhere in America that men actually average 70kg bw? Quick google has your average at 89kg for men.

>>40367831
Not disputing the g/kg/day number, I'm just baffled that the American FDA or whoever writes those guidelines is suggesting that the average mass of males is around 70kg. Either the guidelines are about 40 years out of date or there is an extreme disconnect with reality by the body that's supposed to be in charge of your health.

>>40367309
>I wanna adopt you and hog you in my unicorn.
>We will fly all over Candyland and be princesses!!!

hmm

>>40366014
jesus christ

What type of creature is this?

>>40367876
Men who voted for Hillary

any diet is fine as long as you just find a way to get your amino acids, protein, and vitamins. Use supplements or whatever.

Some diets are easier to do this, and others are harder

>>40366338
>pbj
>around 400 calories

>burger
>about 250 calories

>>40366015
Don't know if the breast milk thing is true, but you cannot feed a baby a vegan diet if it's under 2 years old. In some countries you can go to jail for that. Cats also can't survive on vegan diets, and dogs really shouldn't be put on them either

Source: nutrition student and girlfriend is a vet

>>40367861
"Average" is the mathematical mean; it doesn't necisarily mean healthy, natural, or ideal. In the case of American body weight it means quite the opposite; average is not a guideline in this country anymore.

>>40366668
>spinach 49% protein
Ok, so they are going by caloric content for the veggies.

>chicken breast
>23% protein
And they are going by weight for meats?

I guess an emaciated veggie brain wouldn't be able to catch that.

>>40366015
What about children being born with high cholesterol lvls from mother diet being high in animal fats ?

>>40366772
it's a ruse brah

>>40366128
Ey, let me just chow down of a few kilos of cabbage every day, I'm sure I won't overdose on any vitamins.

>Vegans have the smallest negative impact on environment,
Because they're a minority. Farming kilos of kale per person every day takes a lot of fucking land.

>the smallest obesity rates, the strongest hearts and the overall healthiest lives.
When compared to the general population, which includes McFatties.

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Pic related pretty much sums it up

ITT Meatcucks afraid to admit they are wrong. Vegan since January and every aspect of my life has improved.

>>40366128

One of the problems is "vegans" have actively chosen what they view as a "healthy" option. It is not the best option it just looks better when compared to everything else.

Balanced diets are much better overall especially when considering all the factors.

>>40366294

Please post if you find it

Don't bother going vegan for the environment, we're only a few years away from cultured meat.

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>>40366014
>Met a wonderful guy
>he's vegan

>>40366338
>Using a McSoy burger in an arguement against eating meat

>>40366935
>more filling than meat
Because you have to eat half a kilo of a non-dense food

>>40367979
>Because they're a minority. Farming kilos of kale per person every day takes a lot of fucking land.

This is very wrong and stupid for obvious reasons. To produce 1 kilo of meat requires way more resources than to just feed a person the same nutritional equivalent in vegetables.
What do you think farm animals eat?

>>40366014
I'm a dietetics student and write for a fairly reputable nutrition website (not linking cause stalkerz lol) but I wanted to write an article on this and my editor told me not to because, while he thought I was right, vegans are a bit too cultish and unreasonable to start beef with on the internet.

I was essentially going to write what everyone in the nutrition world knows already: a healthy vegan diet can be followed, but it's just really freaking hard to do. The main three nutrients that you just won't get enough of without supplementation are iron, calcium and B12. Definitely don't want to develop any deficiencies in any of those. Also is very hard to get enough long chain omega 3s but it can be done if you're smart and understand nutrition. If you want to make mad gains from it, you'll need to be wary about the amino acid profiles of your foods and make sure you're consuming a wide enough variety that there are no 'rate limiting' amino acids. Can't feed babies vegan diets, they die.

Basically you can do it if you've done several years of study in the field of human nutrition, otherwise most people tend to last a year maybe two before they get sick and their doctor tells them to eat meat again or at least go vegetarian.

Can we stop with these threads pls

Also, vegan stains doesn't know what he's talking about and he misrepresents data and usually cites low impact studies in general. Some of what he says is 100% true, some is kinda true but wrong, and the other stuff is plain old false. I wouldn't listen to him

>>40368017
How does it affect you?

>>40366014
This guy needs anabolic steroids, regardless of his diet.

>>40368057
After studying dietetics have you made any changes to your diet? Are your omnivorous, veg, pisc or vegan? How many meals a week do you consume that contain meat? Do you supplement or get your micros from food?

>>40368053
>What do you think farm animals eat?
Corn, Corn-Products, Factory Waste (Corn)

>>40368073
Are roids vegan?

>>40366128
>per 100 calories
This unironically triggers me.

And I don't even eat meat.

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>>40368060
First off it shows ignorance from his part, it's literally impossible to go completely vegan because animal parts are used in more than just food.

Second it shows that he doesn't actually knows how to form his own opinion, if he's doing because "global warming" then he's losing his health for nothing, if he's doing because of animal cruelty, then he should consider that the amount of suffering the animals have to deal with on the wild is even worse, and there's still the fact that milk and eggs don't cause suffering on animals.

Fishes are mostly taken from the ocean, whether or not that is sustainable is another matter, but eating fish doesn't increase animal suffering.

Lastly I don't want to get attached to a guy that has a higher chance of getting prostate cancer, gyno, lower test, will never get fit and so on.

I was pretty happy I thought I had found a perfect guy for me but it clearly isn't the case.

>>40368116
Lol I'm literally studying for an exam right now so i don't want to answer to much.

Definitely eat better than before I knew anything. I'm still omnivorous, still eat red meat, still eat chicken, fish etc. I eat meat probably 2-3 meals per week but that's mainly because I'm a poor student who can't afford meat haha. As a general rule I'd say you don't need it every day, depending on the type, cut, cooking style, etc of the meat, eating it every day probably isn't *too* harmful. Most people in the field of health and nutrition recommend you should be eating 1-2 serves of fatty fish (salmon, sardines, etc) each week and a few good serves of dairy (contentious whether it should be low fat or not, I personally side with the low-fat people). Lactose-intolerant people obviously need not apply

Get my micros from food but I supplement D3 because I'm currently living and studying in Canada (from australia tho) and there's no sun here in winter. Also take a couple capsules of fish oil a day because I'm not too into fish and it's expensive. Eat it when I can though. Also use protein powder because, while you can easily get enough protein in your diet without even eating meat, for optimal gains you're still gonna want to be near that traditional mark of around 1g/lb a day. So protein powder is just easy for me in that regard

Hope that helps friendo

Also don't study dietetics there's no jobs and it's boring and everyone's an asshole lol

>>40366128
>Vegans have the smallest negative impact on environment, the smallest obesity rates, the strongest hearts and the overall healthiest lives.
All false. The health outcomes have all been refuted ITT already, so let's focus on the environmental impact. The primary killer of species is habitat destruction, and plant cultivation is the number one reason that forests, wetlands, and other essential ecosystems are being cleared. Tilling of soil is a major cause of erosion, significant enough that the dust particulates kicked up by Chinese farmers is detectable as far off as Hawaii. Thousands of years ago desertification virtually wiped out northern Africa. It's happening now in Western China. It will happen in other regions as well. Numerous small animals are run over, shredded, or buried alive during plant cultivation and processing; no processed food is truly vegan because they all contain minute amounts of insect and rodent meat. Pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers contaminate soil, wildlife, and water supplies. Fertilizers have created hundreds of oceanic dead zones by spurring unnaturally large and concentrated algae blooms. Irrigation can dissolve underground salt and cause it to percolate to the surface, turning arid land that previously supported native plants into salted wastelands; Afghanistan's poppy trade started because commercial irrigation salinated its most fertile farming regions. Fresh water is a diminishing resource, and arid regions cannot support plant cultivation without large quantities of water; they can, however, support livestock grazing.


>>40367999
See
>>40366879

>>40368166
>it's literally impossible to go completely vegan because animal parts are used in more than just food
Trying your best is what counts.

>then he should consider that the amount of suffering the animals have to deal with on the wild is even worse
Why? He's not responsible for it.
Besides, it's hardly worse.
>and there's still the fact that milk and eggs don't cause suffering on animals
False. Countless chicks and calves are killed in the process.

>Fishes are mostly taken from the ocean
Wrong, most fish are bred in captivity. Fish farms generate pollution. Besides, among all the animals used for alimentary purposes fish are the ones who are slaughtered in the most brutal ways.

>Lastly I don't want to get attached to a guy that has a higher chance of getting prostate cancer, gyno, lower test, will never get fit and so on
So a meat consumer.

So sick of all those trolls pretending to be vegan for (you)s. Get off /fit/ and do something with your life for once

>>40368181
How many caps of fish oil do you take a day?

>>40367657
>implying you can lose something you don't have
Dude

>>40368181
Cheers for detailed reply mate. Sounds like my diet fairly similar except for the supps (poor fag).

No interest in actually studying dietetics, geologist by degree, don't want to go back to uni again. Interested in it from a personal rather than career perspective, always good to hear someone with full time interest/career in it though.

>>40368195
I feel like you and numerous others are missing the point about environmental impact. No one is suggesting agriculture doesn't do damage, the point being made is animals are sustained by plants either by grazing or feed. The feed needs to come from somewhere, so in order to have animals you need land for animals and plants. For plants you need land for just plants.
All your points about fertiliser, land clearing into desertification, salt levels, water supplies etc are all valid but apply to both meat and plant based farming. Meat however has the added requirement of plants being needed to sustain it.

Your arguments are better directed at the insane vegans who think muh animal cruelty, the thread is generally reasoned and sensible vegans/non vegans so I don't think it is necessary to highlight the stupidity of the typical fanatical vegans.
Finally as >>40368269 said for eggs the male chicks are typically destroyed at birth so not entirely true that eggs don't result in death.

Before someone jumps on me, I'm omnivorous so save the hurr durr vegan fag fuck off arguments.

>>40366911
I literally do this and I don't understand why more people don't do that... we just need to find a way how not to overfish/farm fish without damaging the environment and we are cool... I catch my own fish and raise my own chicken, so I think I'm kinda ok...

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>>40366014

>>40368269
No it's not, being realistic is what counts, if you need to take meds which are made from animal parts because you are on a vegan diet you're literally deluding yourself and no animal was spared of suffering thanks to your hardships.

>Why? He's not responsible for it.
He's responsible between choosing to support the industry that allows said animals to live relatively in comfort or not, in the wild those animals would have to deal with stress of being prey, hunger, exhaustion and even cannibalism.
>False. Countless chicks and calves are killed in the process.
Calves are only ever killed to have their parts used, taking a cow's milk doesn't kill them. Chicks aren't killed either because the eggs we eat were never fertilized.
>Wrong, most fish are bred in captivity. Fish farms generate pollution. Besides, among all the animals used for alimentary purposes fish are the ones who are slaughtered in the most brutal ways.
One of the most dangerous jobs in the world is fishing on certain areas, and said jobs only exist because it's extremely profitable, fish farms are a relatively recent thing and nowhere less brutal than what fishes deal with on the wild.

>So a meat consumer.
A meat consumer doesn't has to rely on soy for milk, doesn't has to rely on supplements for zinc, doesn't has to make regular check-ups to see if the hormone levels are stable. Shooting your own foot because you are spineless to eat meat is ridiculous.

>>40368333
The problem is that animals process the nutrients on plants much better than we do, for every amount that they eat we'd have to eat more and of a type of plant that's harder to take care of.

>>40366128
I fucking love kale, my niggas. Don't even count protein that comes from veggies

>>40366128
>per 100 calories

good one OP

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>>40368396
>you need to take meds which are made from animal parts because you are on a vegan diet
False.

>He's responsible between choosing to support the industry that allows said animals to live relatively in comfort or not
They don't live in comfort. They're so cramped and filled with meds that they can barely walk.

>the wild those animals would have to deal with stress of being prey, hunger, exhaustion and even cannibalism
None of my business, and still not as bad as captivity.

>Calves are only ever killed to have their parts used, taking a cow's milk doesn't kill them
You can't take a milk's cow without removing the calf first.

>fish farms are a relatively recent thing
Demonstrate.
>nowhere less brutal than what fishes deal with on the wild
But much worse for the environment.

>A meat consumer doesn't has to rely on soy for milk
So?
>doesn't has to rely on supplements for zinc
Nor do I.
>doesn't has to make regular check-ups to see if the hormone levels are stable
Everyone should.
>you are spineless to eat meat
Even a baby can eat meat, it takes discipline and self control to avoid it.

>>40366128
>what is nutrient density?

>>40368500
I envie your patience, I feel as if some people, like the one you're replying to right now, are just to dense to ever see through their short-comings in logical thinking.

Keep on the good fight

>>40368166
>>40368017
>>40368396

seriously, I wouldn't want to date an autistic person like you anyway... it literally takes a bit of logical reasoning and few google searches to disprove most of what you say and most of what you say is not an issue even on a personal level, and in a relationship I don't get how the other person could be giving so many fucks... I hope you're still young or trolling (which I believe is the case)... sorry for ad hominems, I know this is not an argument, but seriously, I advise you to rethink your worldviews a bit, I believe you can benefit from it

>>40368500
>But much worse for the environment
This so much. Fish farms are fucking cancer and completely fuck up their surroundings

>>40368500
>False
Many vitamins are made with part of the organs from animals, there isn't anything false on that.
>They don't live in comfort. They're so cramped and filled with meds that they can barely walk.
You think they'd live better in the wild? Besides you're advocating for non-existence at all for many types of animals because they have adapted to be cattle, they have zero survivability in the wild.
>None of my business, and still not as bad as captivity.
Maybe not for you, can you say that's what they would choose if they even had the brain capacity to do so?
>You can't take a milk's cow without removing the calf first.
Of course you can seems like you don't know how farms work.
>Demonstrate.
Go search about the history of fish farming it doesn't even reach 100 years ago.
>environment
Which is fucked no matter what having a bad diet won't change the trend.
>Nor do I.
Then you are having a bad diet
>Everyone should.
Vegans have to do it more regularly.
>Even a baby can eat meat, it takes discipline and self control to avoid it.
It takes delusions, I'm sorry the world is a harsh place for you but said animals wouldn't exist if it weren't for humans, the environment is being fucked by much more than simply cattle and animals are able to process the nutrients on plants in a much better way than humans can.

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>tfw when there is not a single good argument against veganism

>>40368053
>To produce 1 kilo of meat
No one eats a kilo of meat in one week let alone one sitting. Far cry from the graph in question suggesting people can eat kilos upon kilos of greens every day.

>>40368057
>vegans
>start beef with
Kek

>>40368626
>No one eats a kilo of meat in one week
Eh?

>>40368648
Pun intended

https://qz.com/749443/being-vegan-isnt-as-environmentally-friendly-as-you-think/

Chicken, eggs and yogurt = save the planet

>>40368333
No worries mate.

Haha it's definitely an interesting degree, just not really anywhere to go with it except for a clinical setting which isn't my thing really.

Happy to answer anything small while I'm still sticking around here :)

>>40368621
Meat and dairy taste great

>>40366015
they explode

>>40368668
>caring about what food tastes like
you will never make it

>>40368610
>Many vitamins are made with part of the organs from animals
It doesn't matter, I can get them from vegetable matter too.
>You think they'd live better in the wild?
Absolutely. Wild animals can walk and respond to their natural needs.
>Besides you're advocating for non-existence at all for many types of animals because they have adapted to be cattle
Indeed.
>Maybe not for you, can you say that's what they would choose if they even had the brain capacity to do so?
Absolutely.
>Of course you can seems like you don't know how farms work
Not an argument.
>Go search about the history of fish farming it doesn't even reach 100 years ago
That's quite a lot, enough to have dramatic effects on the environment, as it did.
>Which is fucked no matter what having a bad diet won't change the trend
This planet is still inhabitable, I'd like to affect that as little as possible.
>Then you are having a bad diet
I have zero deficiencies. Had a blood test one month ago.
>Vegans have to do it more regularly
No.
>said animals wouldn't exist if it weren't for humans
They shouldn't.
>the environment is being fucked by much more than simply cattle
They play a big part in it.
>animals are able to process the nutrients on plants in a much better way than humans can
Even carnivores? Besides humans are animals, and we can process those nutrients. Being the best at it isn't important.

>>40368610
>animals are able to process the nutrients on plants in a much better way than humans can
Which ones?

>>40368324
I answered this in another thread today, but basically most fish oil supps, you should be fine taking just one. I take 2 because better safe than sorry but I'm poor and don't want to take more. Unless you're taking like 10+ a day there's no negative health impacts from taking too much, so I usually recommend people take 3 a day if they can afford them

>>40368665
>it's another "anon treats internet newspaper article written by jews as a reliable scientific source" episode

>>40368166

>should consider that the amount of suffering the animals have to deal with on the wild is even worse,
That depends entirely on where your meat comes from.
Personally, I believe supporting humane farming is more beneficial than just taking yourself out of the equation and going vegan - if everyone but people who don't give a Fuck about animals went vegan, the only people supporting farms would follow pricing and conditions would just get worse for the sake of being cheaper. Whereas if everyone who cares supported good farming practices, those farms have more financial resources and all farms are incentivised to improve.

>and there's still the fact that milk and eggs don't cause suffering on animals.
Your ignorance is showing. Like holy shit, how can you possibly think this, I don't even know how to address this it's so wrong and shows you can't even have glanced into it.
Again, there are plenty of good farms where conditions are fine, but laying hens and dairy cows are the fucking poster children of being treated like garbage in factory farms.

>Fishes are mostly taken from the ocean, whether or not that is sustainable is another matter, but eating fish doesn't increase animal suffering.
I don't understand your reasoning here. How does the fact that they come from the ocean mean they don't suffer? How would them being farmed, by implication, mean more suffering? They still die the same way. A way which is arguably cruel if you think fish feel pain - I certainly wouldn't want to die suffocated by the air and crushed under thousands of bodies.
Again, not vegan/veggo, I eat fish, but the points you're making here just seem like a load of autistic bull.

>>40368057
>The main three nutrients that you just won't get enough of without supplementation are iron, calcium and B12.

My bottled water has 100mg/L of Ca

>>40368665
>>40367396

>>40366222
I'm going to personally kill and eat an animal just for you sweet heart.

>>40368666
Unrelated but thoughts on Canadian cities/provinces that are easiest to adapt to for an Aussie? Long term plan (5+) years is to go work there for a few years, geo so I'm probably restricted to mining heavy places like Alberta/Yukon/NW etc but curious if any provinces are very dissimilar/similar to Aus to ease in the adaption

>>40368692
>It doesn't matter, I can get them from vegetable matter too.
Sure you can
>Absolutely. Wild animals can walk and respond to their natural needs.
Are you joking? 90% of the time an animal spends on the wild is worrying about getting food, worrying about their safety, worrying about finding a potential mate, worrying about competitors, it's a LOT more stressing and with much more suffering than they'd have to deal in the captivity.
>Indeed.
So you want them to simply not exist, I'm not sure they'd agree with that.
>Absolutely.
You're either joking or insane, animals with the slight capacity to choose between living on the wild and living on captivity will pick the later.
>Not an argument.
It is you dumbfuck, after a cow gets pregnant as long as you keep stimulating their tits they keep producing milk, and even then you don't have to get them pregnant, you can simply use hormones to make them start producing milk.
>That's quite a lot, enough to have dramatic effects on the environment, as it did.
The most productive types of fish farms have zero direct contact with either ocean or sea, their impacts on the environment as bad what the farmers decide to do with the sewage.
>I'd like to affect that as little as possible.
You have zero ability to affect the in-habitability because what really causes problems is related to fuel, industry and mining.
>I have zero deficiencies. Had a blood test one month ago.
Anecdotal evidence of an anonymous person on 4chan.
>They shouldn't.
Because you say so?
>They play a big part in it.
On warming? Yes but there are way worse things being dumped into the environment and if you are using electricity and a computer you are an hypocrite for calling out against cattle.
>Besides humans are animals, and we can process those nutrients.
Cattle isn't carnivore, they are able to process cellulose which we are unable to. It wouldn't be economically possible to feed everyone healthy without efficiency.

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>>40366911
>>vegetarian + eggs + fish

brofist
And I try to get my eggs from an old-fashioned farmer who lives nearby

>>40367959
I think they're also going by caloric content for meat, but they're not using lean meat, but the fattiest stuff they could find

>>40368866
>it's a LOT more stressing and with much more suffering than they'd have to deal in the captivity.

Are you joking? 90% of the time a person spends in modern days is worrying about getting money, food and shelter, worrying about their safety, worrying about finding a potential mate, worrying about competitors, it's a LOT more stressing and with much more suffering than they'd have to deal in slavery

>>40368626
I currently eat 2.4kg chicken and 1.8kg minced meat per week

>>40368772
No YOUR ignorance is showing, like you said it yourself the fact that some farms choose to treat their cows poorly doesn't mean every farm is like that, do you idiots at first world countries really believe that all countries treat farm animals as cogs in a machine?

>I don't understand your reasoning here. How does the fact that they come from the ocean mean they don't suffer?
They'd suffer anyway, you or another animal eating them makes no difference for the fish being eaten.

> I certainly wouldn't want to die suffocated by the air and crushed under thousands of bodies.
Would you prefer to be digested alive in the belly of a predator?

>>40368897
The difference is the time spent on doing such things, humans are capable of earning their living with something they like, we are capable of spending energy efficiently, and we certainly don't spend 90% our time stressing about such things. Take into account the multimillionaire industry of entertainment, which would never exist if people didn't had time to spend on leisure.

>>40368866
Not the anon you are talking to, but fuck me your arguments are strange or downright poor.
> 90% of the time an animal spends on the wild is worrying about getting food, worrying
This just in things that live on this planet need to actively take measures to continue to live.....
> animals with the slight capacity to choose between living on the wild and living on captivity will pick the later.
Ah so you speak to animals do you? Cow whisperer? Or was that the great cow survey of 2010 that you refer to where the astonishing 98% of survey participants communicated that they prefer farm life? Honestly dude.....
> Anecdotal evidence of an anonymous person on 4chan.
Strange, feels like you have yet to cite a single source for your claims yet jump on someone else doing the same
> Yes but there are way worse things being dumped into the environment
Hurr durr other stuff is worse. Proceed to pull shit out of left field in regards computer manufacture when the thread is about diet/impact of farming styles.

Can't even be fucked pointing out your other attempts from above. Honestly just stop dude, you've made about 1 actual point in 3 screens of shit posting.

>>40368846
I've spent a lot of time in a lot of countries and I'd say Canada is one of the closest to Australia culture-wise, but it's still very much a different place. Toronto is shit (I'm living near there lol), just a big, heartless city. Vancouver is apparently really expensive to live in (they have sooo many homeless people asking you for money because of this - only real negative I can think of about Vancouver) but it's kind of the 'cool, hipster' city of Canada. I guess like Melbourne closest-thing? BC is definitely beautiful if nature is your thing. Ottawa is a really friendly, nice small city. Could definitely live there if I didn't need/want to live near a big city. Montreal is very pretty but it's very French dominated and you pretty much need to be French or French-Canadian to live there. Haven't travelled around much yet beyond that.

Culturally it's kind of a mix between straya and the US. Definitely not as hipster as australia, and I guess the college culture is the same as in the US. Much more friendly and laid back like Australia, compared to the US. I think I still prefer Australia overall but you could quite comfortably still live here for a year or two as an Aussie

Also it's waaay too easy to get laid over here if you're a 6+/10 with an Aussie accent. Way too easy.

>>40368866
>animals
>worrying
Do you know what a fucking animal is?

>>40368866
>90% of the time an animal spends on the wild is worrying about getting food, worrying about their safety, worrying about finding a potential mate, worrying about competitors, it's a LOT more stressing and with much more suffering than they'd have to deal in the captivity
They're not constantly cramped in a tiny space, they're not forced to take hormones and other shit that makes them grow deformed, they can potentially live their entire lifespan.
They're basically programmed to do what you described.
>So you want them to simply not exist, I'm not sure they'd agree with that
They're getting killed anyway.
>You're either joking or insane, animals with the slight capacity to choose between living on the wild and living on captivity will pick the later
Wild animals in captivity will take any chance to escape.
>after a cow gets pregnant as long as you keep stimulating their tits they keep producing milk
So what happens to the calves? Especially the male ones?
>The most productive types of fish farms have zero direct contact with either ocean or sea
Not achievable with salt water.
>what really causes problems is related to fuel, industry and mining
And intensive animal farming.
You said "YOU are having a bad diet".
>Because you say so?
Because they don't belong in nature.
>On warming? Yes but there are way worse things being dumped into the environment
Doesn't mean that the rest is irrelevant.
>if you are using electricity and a computer you are an hypocrite for calling out against cattle
Consuming meat is optional, using electricity isn't.
>It wouldn't be economically possible to feed everyone healthy without efficiency
Vegetables require less space and time to produce.

>>40368626
Lets say you eat meat with lunch and dinner. That's 14 meals per week. Then it's 71g per meal, which people certainly eat.

>>40368955
>This just in things that live on this planet need to actively take measures to continue to live.....
It's the amount of time doing such things that matters, and how often they are successful in those pursuits.
>Ah so you speak to animals do you?
How the fuck vegans know so little about wild animals? Whenever an animal gets hurt and is taken into captivity to be healed, the biggest problem comes when they have to return to their natural habitat, many try to return to their caretakers, others regard ALL humans as caretakers and end up dying trying to return to captivity.
>Hurr durr other stuff is worse. Proceed to pull shit out of left field in regards computer manufacture when the thread is about diet/impact of farming styles.
It's about picking priorities, would you really care about the lack of cellphone signal on your house the latter were on fire? Some of the stuff being dumped into the environment permanently contaminates it. If your worry is about the environment you're wasting your energy bi picking the wrong fights.

>>40368925

>like you said it yourself the fact that some farms choose to treat their cows poorly doesn't mean every farm is like that,
Fucking exactly, so why do you keep talking as if no shitty farms exist? I'm acknowledging there's both, you're not.

>do you idiots at first world countries really believe that all countries treat farm animals as cogs in a machine?
Like you literally just said, I've been acknowledging that there are both good and bad farms.

>Would you prefer to be digested alive in the belly of a predator?
Possibly. I'm not a fish, I'll never know. And for you to presume to know what animals would 'prefer' in these scenarios is fucking hilarious.

>>40368954

...Have you ever actually seen a wild animal?

>>40368955
>Ah so you speak to animals do you?
Don't ask that! If Eliza Thornberry tells anyone about her powers, she'll lose them!!

hey guys just stopping by to keep the conversation on track. as long as none of you unironically care about whether or not animals are harmed for the sake of humans, feel free to continue discussing the pros/cons of vegeterianism/veganism/animal product consumption.

>>40368988
>Consuming meat is optional, using electricity isn't.
lolwut
You can live without electricity dude, people did for a long fucking time not that long ago, and plenty of people do today either because they're hippies or deadbeats who didn't pay their bill, or live in parts of the world where electricity is still scarce.
We're evolved to eat meat, it provides pretty essential nutrients that need to be painstakingly accounted for in a vegan diet. Electricity is just a convenience.

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>>40368954
But wild animals also get to play, build nests and do other stimulating activities that satisfy their natural needs, factory animals don't.

>>40369133
Then don't support factory animals, free ranges exist.

>>40369043
>many try to return to their caretakers
Not because there scared of the wild you fucking mongoloid child. Because they know that that's a safe place with resources, no different from a tree filled with edible nuts. As far as they know, they just found a hot resource, of course they're going to try and milk it.

You might as well say domesticated pets are cruel because dogs and cats escape if the doors left open. They're not fleeing their fucking home, they're just dumbasses who are curious to explore and sometimes too dumb to find their way back.

>>40369128
I think he is arguing that electricity is a necessity in a modern society and I agree, since a fuckload of jobs depend on it, you fucking autist

>>40369111
Checked, and too late buddy. 4chan has taken hold, thread is derailed. Next step in the usual process is commence name calling or meme'ing until the thread comes around again later and the first 50 replies are decent before descent into 4chan chaos again. Shame but it's a pretty consistent trend

>>40369159

A fuck load of jobs are in the meat industry too, idiot.

>>40369062
Have you? The only situation where they are able to have leisure is when they are in their infancy and only because their plays are a training of the skills they will need when adult.

>>40369156
>Not because there scared of the wild you fucking mongoloid child.
Never said such, I said that when presented with the option they prefer to live in captivity, and you just agreed with me.

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>>40368869

>>40369196

Yes. All the time. I don't believe you have.
Literally the only time a wild animal is stresses is when it seems to be in immediate danger.

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>>40367309
Bruh what the fuck

>>40368988
>Vegetables require less space and time to produce.
But the amount you have to consume to sustain a meat free diet is so ridiculously high that it's unsustainable for an entire population.

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You have been visited by the vegan cutting and bulking goblins.

>>40368988
>Because they don't belong in nature.
This is philosophical talk, and it's absolutely retarded to base your diet on philosophy rather than science or economy.

>>40369215

No, because wanting access to the resources at a specific location =/= wanting to stay there and never leave, just like wanting to eat at a certain nut tree =/= wanting to stay up there for all eternity.

Nice job sidestepping the quintessential problem of pets running away from home.

It's like your entire knowledge of animals comes from cartoons.

>>40369222
>Literally the only time a wild animal is stresses is when it seems to be in immediate danger.
Which is all the fucking time, when you consider that their food is limited, places to sleep safely are rare and predators will take any opportunity to kill them.

>>40369243
Read the context.

>>40369243

That's not philosophical at all. He domesticated animals we have today are bred to suit specific needs, they're physically incapable of thriving in the wild. Domesticated animals are not wild animals who've been placed in captivity. They're essentially extremely deformed animals and would die as such without human support.

>>40369251
How's that different from animals living in a free range? They have access to exercise, food, water and space.

>Nice job sidestepping the quintessential problem of pets running away from home.
Nice job ignoring how many of them never do so, others try to return home and many move many kilometers to follow their owner.

It's like you purposefully ignore reality to support your delusions.

>>40369241
it's amazing he was able to get that skinny while still being fat.

>>40369241
This is why people say homosexuality is a mental illness.

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>>40369234
completely false.

you should eat 80% of every meal pasta, rise or potatos. very easy, very tasty. humans love carbs for reason, it's their natural food

going vegan often misunderstood by eating vegetables mostly. that's never going to work, you wont feel satisfied.

>>40369262

So you don't even know what 'immediate danger' means, wow.
I give up, you're too phenomenally stupid. I hope you're like 15 years old. Even being developmentally challenged would be preferable to the amount of non-literal retardation this kind of thinking would take.

>>40369309
>pasta
Either you are advocating for pasta that uses soy or you are advocating for pasta that uses milk. The first one does horrors to men and the second one isn't vegan.

>>40369317
You think that when an animal feels like he's starving he doesn't feel stressed? Really?

This is why society crumbles spoiled fucks that have zero contact with the real world.

>>40369331
>Either you are advocating for pasta that uses soy or you are advocating for pasta that uses milk.

Nigger what? 99% of pasta is just wheat.

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>>40369499
>bread
>cake
>sauce for macaroni

>>40366613
You probably won't get 50 percent in meat. Skin and intestines weight a lot.

Probably 30 percent in actual meat, and then organ meat if you can convince people to eat it.

>>40366485
ICEBURN

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>>40367396
Wrong,

Left wing faggots love to be vegans.

>>40367309
>this is what your average vegan looks like

Not surprised desu.

>>40368269
>there are people this stupid posting on /fit/ right now

What a cuck

>>40369697
>Dailymail is now anti-veg
>The Guardian is now anti-veg
>Quatz is not anti-veg
All left-wing bastions controlled by jews.

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>>40369716
>report news
>that means you are anti-vegan

>>40369735
>implying "eating eggs is actually good for the environment" is news
>implying those sites don't post exclusively what (((they))) want you to know and believe

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>>40369760
>they would lie about someone dying to make people anti-vegan

>>40368269
>>40368583
>>40368772
you're all fucking autistic
>>40368166
you're a fucking mastermind

>>40369715
Not an argument

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>>40369795
If only that guy thought the same, I don't want to lose him but I don't want to date a vegan either.

>>40366015
I think the problem is that lots of Vegans just don't eat enough and get enough nutrients because they're so limited in what they can eat.

You see someone like VeganGainz (who you got to admit, is getting good gains with his 4pl8 deadlift, and soon to be 5pl8 deadlift as he claims) who looks good, has pretty good size and athleticism.

Veganism gets a very bad rep from all the aggressive cunts that try and force it down your face and the people who barely eat anything and are twigs because of it.

If you do it right (which is fucking hard) it is healthy you can successfully build muscle and strength

>>40369891
Hasn't he been training for something like 10 years? Considering he is small 4 plate is reasonable, but it has taken him so fucking long and his health is far from good I think you've chosen a poor example.

>>40370021
I could list powerlifters and bodybuilders as examples but I figured he would be a decent example as he's kinda the very day man.

Yeah, he's fucked up mentally. But you can't deny he doesn't have some good gains.

I think he only started strength training seriously now, and all those 10 years before he was just exercising instead of "training"

>>40370076
Stopped watching him a fair while back because he went from a little odd to batshit insane. Didn't know he'd made a focused effort on training since. Might have a peak.

>>40370102
yea his channel is fucking awful and I by no means watch him regularly. His video of him deadlifting 4pl8 just popped up in my "recommended for you" feed and I checked it out.

Seems to be making some good gains. I gotta say. I was impressed. If he can get to 5pl8 as a natty Vegan, I gotta admit, that will do wonders in his crusade to give the Vegan diet more credibility.

>>40370144
Shit ay, actually reasonable form for an all time PR. Usually when you see someone make a major PR it is painful to watch. He's still irritating, the shoes make me want to throw something but I'll give credit for the strength there.

Link for anyone who cares
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRj6DqxN_uw

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So whats the best diet ?

Vegans and anti-vegans fuck off I dont give a fuck about whats right or wrong, I just want to know what is the best diet to have a big shredded as fuck and healthy body.

>>40370447
tren and clen

>>40370447
Balanced diet, meat, fish, whole grains, vegetables

>>40370519
>meat
causes cancer
>whole grains
anti-androgenic
>fish
contaminated with heavy metals
>vegetables
toxic and pesticide laden

>>40370519
>>40370447
Also you probably need a whole lot less meat than you think, anti-vegans will have a fit but excessive amounts of red meat over a long time results in increased heart disease. The things that typically accompany meat based dishes like sauces/potatoes etc can be high in sugar and/or salt which have a host of health problems associated with them as well.

Supplements should only be used as a last resort, your body takes on vitamins/fiber etc a lot better from real food.

>>40370561
Helpful comment mate. Think the dude asking for what to eat has been reassured and is better informed thanks to this. Did you also know consuming water is linked to death in 100% of cases??

>>40370447
Mediterranean diet, this isn't even arguable.

>>40370447
worrying about the tiny details isn't necessary for anyone really unless you're going for the really low bf%.

eat clean (complex carbs, lean meats, plenty veg and water, healthy fats and some trans fats, little bit of salt, enough fibre), sleep enough, train diligently (weights and cardio to keep fat in check) and focus on progressive overload and you'll be absolutely fine.

i fell for the calories in/calories out meme and the no cardio meme in my early lifting career. calories in/out is true for weight gain but whether you want that gain to be fat or muscle is highly dependent on your macros and quality of food. cardio also is a good way to keep up energy for training while burning extra cals.

if you do that, bulking and cutting appropriately, carefully and consistently is going to yield very good gains.

compare bodies on intermittent fasting, keto, vegan diets or any other hyped up fitness diet, so long as they adhered to the above, and the difference will be non-existent. i firmly believe that vegan diets, keto, IF etc are effective because they restrict the potential for screwing up and demand a lot of willpower to stick to and so will only be able to be stuck to by stronger people anyway. take IF for example - you have a long period during whch you cannot binge. also, your mental devotion to it will be infectious and you'll probably be more willing to devote mental resources to keeping it up. same with veganism etc.

there's only so far you need to worry about diet till you're just worrying about an extra tiny fraction of progress.

as far as health, i've never checked out veganism so i don't know but the concensus seems to be that its healthier. however who gives a fuck. eat well like i said and you'll be fine. decreased risk of gout, longer life etc...you'll probably live till about 80 anyway, how much older do you want to get? at that age anther 10 years will feel like 6 months.

>>40370447
Depends on your lifestyle.

>totally sedentary
Pescetarian or vegetarian, whole foods only

>sedentary but lifts
Paleo

>serious athlete (two-a-days)
Pretty much all whole foods, as most people will find they work better with a little starch at this point and cravings can be a valid way to decide what to eat.

>old person
Vegan +supplements and maybe some shellfish, to ward off age-related issues.

There's too many contradicting opinions and studies, It's really hard to separate bullshit from fact. So lets put it this way, veganism is healthy if it aligns with your ethical/moral beliefs, and there is evidence that nearly all people can thrive on a vegan diet. The most healthy type of vegan diet is probably the whole food plant based diet, which may probably be the healhiest diet overall (especially long-term).

>>40370896
Nearly all ADULT people can thrive on a vegan whole foods plant diet plus supplements. Very important to note that kids should probably get some animal products to grow to full potential.

>>40368269
how the fuck are chicks killed in egg production? Eggs are just a chicken's period, no babies were harmed in the making of my omelet

And if you bring up the male chicks, kindly shove your hand into the grinders they use. Roosters are absolute assholes and deserve to get shoved in the blender. I still have the scar one gave me as a kid when it decided that my eyes looked tasty. Fuck roosters

>>40370951
>Eggs are just a chicken's period
Not the ones that are used to make the chicken reproduce. All the male chicks and excess chicks are killed.
>And if you bring up the male chicks, kindly shove your hand into the grinders they use. Roosters are absolute assholes and deserve to get shoved in the blender. I still have the scar one gave me as a kid when it decided that my eyes looked tasty. Fuck roosters
Your personal trauma is not a valid argument, you pussy. Next time think carefully before approaching animals you don't know.

>>40370896
>There's too many contradicting opinions and studies.
There isn't actually, evidence is there, a balance vegan diet is the best and can even reverse diseases. the rest is propaganda against it.

>>40370561

>I get my nutrients by absorbing sunlight

>>40370980
we fucking raised those chickens from when they were chicks, roosters are feathery balls of hatred. Day of the Axe, best day of my life

>>40371041
When a child does something dumb like getting in a chicken pen he deserves to be slapped.
If your parents slapped you more maybe now you wouldn't be an angsty loser with the most ridiculous scar I've ever heard of.

>>40366014
That's not Mordor, you aren't going to find your precious there Golem.

>>40366015
You are mixing this up with the story about the parents that fed their child vegan dairy, like soy milk or something. If a woman was so unhealthy so as to produce worthless, non nutritional milk, she would just not produce enough to feed a baby to begin with. Our bodily systems are aware of themselves, their purpose. Twit.

Most people suck ass at nutrition, so it makes sense that most people suck at veganism. They just get a bad rep cause we're such a fringe population. I went vegan about 10 months ago and I actually feel great. There's a lot of research to back it being healthy for you (anthropological studies, exercise physiology, comparative anatomy and physiology), as well as all the moral and environmental issues you could solve.

That said, it's not a perfect diet that's easy to execute at first. You have to relearn where to get your nutrients from. I always though dairy was necessary for calcium, meat for iron, etc. Turns out you can get calcium from leafy greens, iron from beans, etc. The main problems are 1) most of the foods are less calorie dense since there aren't a lot of fatty foods in vegan diets and 2) Vitamin B12 is essentially non-existent in this day and age from most plant sources since we now wash the shit out of our food so you'll have to supplement that. Those are the only downsides though from what I've seen. You can get all the nutrients you need.

>>40366713
Those alternatives are often less sustainable that factory farming.

>>40367742
If you eat isoflavones in soy milk they dont' have an estrogenic effect, it's when you eat straight soy

>>40371110
>If a woman was so unhealthy so as to produce worthless, non nutritional milk, she would just not produce enough to feed a baby to begin with. Our bodily systems are aware of themselves, their purpose. Twit.
If you try to apply teleology to physiology, you're going to have a bad time. Mechanisms and pathways either exist or they don't, and there does not exist a mechanism for halting lactation over a B12 deficiency.

All the mammary glands do is gather up certain substances and spit them out into a suspension. If one of those ingredients isn't present, the rest of the milk still gets made.

>>40366014
Yeah bro, it's much better than eating meat, make sure to keep us posted on your progress, and get the fuck out.
Seriously why for the past year and a half have these fucking threads shown up? You don't go to /k/ and make posts about nerf guns. Get the fuck out.

>>40368057
B12 is the only one you can make a case for. Iron is in beans and leafy greens. Vegans have rates of anemia similar to omnivores, vegetarians have anemia due to dairy inhibiting the absorption of iron. That's like med school 101. Calcium can be found in leafy greens as well. B12 you're right on, but that's because of hygiene practices which are good.

>>40369138
Free ranges are less sustainable than factory farms.

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>>40368166
>he doesn't think that the world wouldn't be a better place than it is currently if it instantly changed from how things are now to being populated only by animals that have been genetically engineered to be incapable of feeling pain while: being watched over to prevent and counter against the evolution of animals capable of feeling pain by a smaller than current population of humans that have been genetically modified to be incapable of feeling pain, being additionally watched over by an artificial intelligence program that aids the humans in preventing and counteracting the evolution of animals capable of feeling pain, and being the place of creation of an artificial intelligence program sent aboard various outer space vehicles along side populations of genetically modified humans to help the humans look for planets with beings capable of feeling pain and trying to make these planets be populated by beings incapable of feeling pain in a similar manner to Earth through the most ethical means possible.

>>40370988
>There isn't actually, evidence is there, a balance vegan diet is the best and can even reverse diseases. the rest is propaganda against it.

lol

>>40371560
>>he doesn't think that the world wouldn't be a better place than it is currently if it instantly changed from how things are now to being populated only by animals that have been genetically engineered to be incapable of feeling pain while: being watched over to prevent and counter against the evolution of animals capable of feeling pain by a smaller than current population of humans that have been genetically modified to be incapable of feeling pain, being additionally watched over by an artificial intelligence program that aids the humans in preventing and counteracting the evolution of animals capable of feeling pain, and being the place of creation of an artificial intelligence program sent aboard various outer space vehicles along side populations of genetically modified humans to help the humans look for planets with beings capable of feeling pain and trying to make these planets be populated by beings incapable of feeling pain in a similar manner to Earth through the most ethical means possible.

wat

>>40366014

Most healthy diet if it's done right.

>>40371765
>Most healthy diet if it's done right.

too bad there is no "right" way to be deprived of complete proteins

Veganism? More like veGAINism

cuz of the gains

>>40366014
It can be, but it isnt in a lot of cases.

Typically they undereat protein which is exceptionally bad for you

>>40371745
No no, it checks out, he just forgot about maximising pleasure and spiritual/mental enlightenment in addition to removing pain.

>>40370447
Insufficient data for meaningful answer.

>>40371244
>factory farming
>sustainable
top kek

>>40371210
I'm on and off pondering giving it a trial, can I ask what weight you are/if you stayed the same or changed, how often you exercise/strength train and relative cost change from non-vegan to vegan for your average grocery bill?

>>40372309
>I'm on and off pondering giving it a trial, can I ask what weight you are/if you stayed the same or changed, how often you exercise/strength train and relative cost change from non-vegan to vegan for your average grocery bill?

this is how you will have to live just to remain alive if you are a true vegan:

https://youtu.be/DNgA06xE_Ng?list=PLmIqdlomtuStUIWj3h-RzdXx8z6Ex5gyS

>>40366014
>pinup tattoos
>be an actual skeleton
what the fuck. never before have I seen such a discrepancy between the person and the ink they have

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>>40367309
Oh No

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lol. forget the "vegan diets" which fails because people eat vegetables mainly on them. 90% return to eating meat. true veganism is stupid, just mostly vegan diet will do the trick.

perfect weight with no calorie restrictions, eating always till full

you should eat like japs to look like japs. mostly rice and noodles. and pasta. you can even eat meat small amounts no problems. dairy is big no tho

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>>40368626

>>40372359
>https://youtu.be/DNgA06xE_Ng?list=PLmIqdlomtuStUIWj3h-RzdXx8z6Ex5gyS [Embed]

HOLY SHIT

she must not have a job

normal people can't live like that

>>40368689
>too smart to care about minor things like enjoying living
keep on bleep blooping robot

>>40372424
>true veganism is stupid, just mostly vegan diet will do the trick
Vegetarianism > any form of veganism

>>40372453
She actually doesn't iirc, she makes income from youtube and her website + patreon

>>40372359
>five fucking pounds of lettuce in one sitting for 28g of protein

>>40366016
>the studies
>links to no studies

>>40366014
It's healthy if you do it in a healthy way, just like being an omnivore isn't healthy or unhealthy in itself. There are vegans that eat nothing but cookies and pizza all day and there are vegans that eat a really clean diet, hit proper macros and make sure to acquire all the vitamins they need either through the food itself or by supplementing.

>>40366015
That's false and you're a retard.

I know a ton of vegans and a ton of them have given birth and raised their children as vegans with no issues at all. You're making blanket statements probably based on something you assumed and thought up in your own stupid head or heard from some other idiot.

>>40372778
(...but if I'm honest, I really want some lettuce now.)

>>40372359
>78.4g of protein
>only2400 calories
Maybe for a regular person this is okay but if you're trying to make gains the recommended protein intake is 0.8-1.0g*bodyweight
i.e. A 200lbs man should consume 160-200g of protein a day.

According to Wikipedia; which is a site I 100% trust when it comes to general knowledge like what I'm about to drop; 1 cup of chicken is 140g, 335cal, 38g protein.

1 cup of peas (considered one of the highest protein containing vegetable) is 145g, 115 cal, 8g protein.

Now you divide 115 into 335 (calories) and get ~2.91. Using this you multiply the peas 145g and 8g to match the caloric intake of peas to chicken and get 23.28g protein and 421.95g mass.

So to compare, you get less protein and more mass for the same amount of calories. All these are taken from Wikipedia and you can do the math yourself and feel free to do this for every single fucking vegetable you can think of. I guarentee you that chicken will win everytime in protein/calories ratio.

Now if you want a fat free diet and can stomach bloating yourself up to reach micros and macros then by all means, be a vegan. Just remember that vegetables do not contain essential amino acids that I didn't cover yet. Amino acids that make it easier for your body to build muscle out of the protein it takes in. Think about it; is it easier to build a house out of bricks or a house out of the the materials required to make bricks? Your vegan body is expending more calories than it needs to just turning all that raw protein into muscle. Be nice to your body.

Tl;dr chicken > peas

>>40373003
Can you detail the amino acids? Not the guy you were replying to but I'm curious.

>>40373003
so you take BCAAs, big deal.

>>40373081
You're still ignoring the absurd amount of food you'd have to eat to take your needed macros.

>>40366128
>implying you could eat kale/watercress as dense as steak

insectivore/omnivore > omnivore > vegan

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>>40373037
BCAAs are a popular and widely available fitness supplement. They are particularly well known in body-building and other sports requiring growth of strong muscle tissue. They cannot be synthesised by the body and therefore have to be supplemented via foods containing protein and are therefore classed as essential amino acids. -aminoacidstudies.org (it sounds fake but I'm pretty sure it's legit.)

Pic related. Pretty much the majority of essential amino acids come from meat. Why? Because meat is a muscle already and thus naturally contains concentrated amounts of them.

>>40373081
That's more money you have to drop just to stay healthy.
I'd rather eat a 255g steak and get all the protein I need than 700g of veggies. It's time consuming and also excessive.

>>40373081
If veganism is so healthy, why do you have to take supplements?

>>40367979
>Believes that he can get a vitamins overdose from a few Kilos o cabbage...

You are calling fruits and vegetables cabbage?
just kys before you die a painful Tumor death.

Oh you dont believe me, its ok, wait and you will get cancer. Do your chemo like your doc will assist you. He knows better...

>>40366014
no

>>40369678
Around 40 percent of a typical cow is processed into retail beef, and 60 percent is classified as by-products that are utilized in a variety of foods. The majority of a cow's organs are safe to eat, including liver, heart, kidneys, brains, tripe, pancreas, tongue and testicles. Edible beef by-products include beef stock and gelatin, and hooves and intestines are often used in the manufacture of sausage casings. Things we dislike might often be used in other cultures, (think chicken feet in china, blood in europe, rocky mountain oysters and so on) the leftover products get eaten after they get processed. Like for example gelatin from skin and bone.
don't forget people have been hunters for thousands of years so it's no surprise we eat everything and have a use for everything that's left.

The rest like bones and horns are ground to become animal and pet feed and luxury items such as bone china. Hides are transformed into a variety of leather products that range from vehicle interiors to shoes. Leftover fat scraps are rendered for use in beauty products, candles, paints, plastics and detergents. Even the hair sees use as paintbrush bristles, insulation and glues.

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>>40373502
>tfw you eat gelatin from the bone marrows
It's pretty tasty desu.

>>40366222
why do people die without supplements on a vegan diet?

why did the Catholic Church force people to not eat meat for 40 days during lent. Why did people have carnivals before lent.

>>40373274
not a vegan but most people today lack many essential vitamins due to their shitty diets and should be taking them anyway

>>40368057
You are wrong.

>Are carnivores healthier then vegans? No
>Are carnivores getting less Tumors then vegans? No
>Are carnivores having no Iron or calcium deficiencies? No
>Are carnivores Babys dont dying? No

>Are vegans weaker then carnivores? No

There is a very very big Industrie behind Food and health my friend.
Hospitals, surgeons, the pharma industrie want you to eat meat and believe me they can fake studies to make you believe you will get a deficiency, as if carnivores dont have one...
McDonals, Burger King, Pizza hut and all the fucking meat and milk Industrie want you to eat meat and believe me, they can fake studies too... soooooo my friend, who do you want to believe?
People that are making Money making you fat, sick and sending you to the Clinic or People that just want to do good?

The easiest way to find out is to try it yourself you fag and dont believe anyone. Just go Vegan for 2 years and see what happens.

Fags, believing what marionettes of meat and pharma industry says...

>>40366128
>per 100 calories
HAHAHA please tell me this is bait
how about showing grams of protein per 100 gram? whereas watercress has 2,3 g protein and steak has 25 g

Getting enough protein in while on a significant cut is really fucking hard without just eating a shit ton of beans or something stupid.

I'm a vegan for the most part but there's no way I'm spending a fortune on vegan protein powder that doesn't even form a complete protein.

>>40367396
Leftists? They are all for it, you idiot. If anything conservatives are into meat eating

>>40366128
>the strongest hearts and the overall healthiest lives.
You're talking about pescovegetarians

>>40373475
>Myxedema Coma Induced by Ingestion of Raw Bok Choy
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc0911005

>>40374623
>McDonals, Burger King, Pizza hut and all the fucking meat and milk Industrie want you to eat meat

McDonald's now sells salads, wraps, fruit bags, all-day breakfast, and has in-built fucking cafes because it just listens to the people. If the people stop eating meat, it'll sell them something else.

>>40374938

There's no telling what the right and left are for these days. Trump's the first president to be in favour of gay marriage before taking office, and leftist are arguing in favour of physically assaulting people with different beliefs to quash dissent. Who knows what's real anymore.

>>40369241
make a meme of this. YOU, reading this, you are the chosen one, anon.

>>40366014
this is a disgusting human bean, it made me more straight (no homo)

If you need to supplement ANYTHING, your diet cannot be considered natural. Fuck off vegan pussies.

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>>40369241
Kill these fucking insane, perverted, disease bags.

Gays are a plague on humanity.

>>40371017
kek

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>>40376573
>having space only to stand up
>constant noise from thousands of other chickens
>less stressful than living in the wild
Nope. I do eat meat, but I think the modern meat industry is disgusting.

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>>40376682

> be dear
> born like bambi in forest
> grow up run around on green meadows
> normal life in nature with all it ups and downs
> get older find a mate
> *bang* oh god i think i just go shot
> well at least i die in minutes unlike being torn apart by wolves
> i had a good run, now i fade back into the circle of life
personally think hunting is the best, but for me free range is the is current most viable choice

>>40366014
he looks fine, stop bullying people for having different beliefs to yours, healthy at any size, that's my policy