Listen to what Ripp says at 50:44. He literally says what I've

>>40127254

Alright retard, actually delude yourself into thinking that you can't do pullups to increase the size of your lats , work your deltoids to make your shoulders wider, etc.

Look like garbage, not my problem.

>don't do anything

How are you making NO progress in years? Try harder faggot

>>40127254

Link + time stamp of where Rippetoe says training specifically for aesthetics is fucking retarded because aesthetics is one of those things that you either have, or you don't have, it isn't something you can just "train". You can't "train" unaesthetic insertions etc.

https://youtu.be/Kxhw_NvdXLc?t=50m44s

>>40127276
>delude yourself into thinking that you can't do pullups to increase the size of your lats , work your deltoids to make your shoulders wider, etc
He did not say that at all.

>>40127254

Most anons here know that compound exercises at 5-8 reps combined with dumbell work at 10 reps and some other accessories like curls and some ab work here and there with a couple of conditioning days AND -500/+500 will be the way to achieving a nice looking and strong body especially compared to non-gym goers without even lifting elite or intermediate weights is the way to go. We all agree that staying to 10-20% is ideal where the lower end is more good looking because obviously showing the muscles is pretty nice but still 20% is pretty good especially if it's coupled with nice biceps a strong core and a nice back.

>>40127276
Working your delts doesn't make your shoulder joint bigger, it just makes your deltoid muscle bellies larger...if you have a narrow shoulder girdle you're never going to have what is considered by most to have an aesthetic physique, even more so if your waist is average, and not super tiny.


btw: Nobody ever said pullups dont make your lats bigger. We're more so talking about wasting time doing 500 sets of useless exercises in some futile attempt to "shape" your muscles or change your insertions/proportions/joints.

>>40127296

" The only thing you can truly control is your strength through proper lifting methods, and your body-fat through die"

Translation: "I can't change my proportions by working desirable v taper muscles"

>. The only thing you can truly control is your strength through proper lifting methods, and your body-fat through diet.

Trnslation: Translation: "I can't change my proportions by working desirable v taper muscles"

The rest of his post boils down to 'I can't change my insertions'

yeah?

>>40127316
You're misunderstanding.

>>40127329

I read this >>40127315

What a load of autism NO SHIT YOU CANT CHANGE YOUR ISNERTIONS LAMO

But you can change your propertions, making you as asthetic as possible

ALl you can do is the best you can

>>40127254
Literally everybody with a working brain who spends more than 5 seconds reading about fitness knows that all you can do to change your body is building muscle and losing fat. And building muscle works best by building strenght. It is fucking amazing that it took you years of brosplits to figure that out. I stopped doing brosplits after i was sure strenght training was something i was going to keep doing and research the most basic shit. How retarded can you really be?

>>40127316
>>40127360
Nah man. If you do compound lifts, full body training - which Rip is obviously taking as a given - you can really not change all that much as a natty proportion-wise. A tiny bit? Yes. But not to the point of 'I have shitty tricep genetics, so I just added some pushdowns and now they massive and I'm totally proportionate'.

>>40127405

Are you retarded?

Stupid ass fucking strength routines leave with you with minimal fucking size, because you never trained for size- first problem.

Second problem is that you have no fucking delts, no fucking lats, no fucking v taper.

You will look like a fucking fridge.

Sigh, why argue with retards?

>'I have shitty tricep genetics, so I just added some pushdowns and now they massive and I'm totally proportionate'.

Are you retarded FOR REAL? You don't know what proportions mean?

Doing fucking pushdowns will INCREASE THE SIZE OF YOUR TRICEPS HOLY FUCK. THIS OBVIOUSLY EFFECTS YOUR PROPERORTIONS.

WILL IT CHNAGE YOUR INSERTS? NO!

>>40127430
Do you know what increases muscle size?


Strength.

>>40127254
you can still change your proportions, and not lift so heavy you cant walk at 60.

go away.

>>40127430
Doing bullshit exercises like pushdowns will NEVER significantly change anything about your body. Sure it will somewhat increase the pump/"meme-trophy" of that muscle. But without the size being already there you are wasting your time.

- The only way to get actual size is to become strong. ESPECIALLY if you are natural.

However, I do agree to some extent with you. If V-taper is your main goal, you can increase this by neglecting legs/core and maximizing bench and upper body pull strength

But what 100.0% of people seem to refuse to understand is that for actual size, you MUST have STRENGTH. I.e. you absolutely need a proper program with a progression that will take you to 400+lb bench, and 450+lb barbell row

then sure, after you reach these numbers, you can increase some of the smaller muscles (temporarily, for let's say a photoshoot) by doing idiotic shit like pushdowns or dumbbell work

But please for the love of god people, get it through your heads that there is NO WAY IN HELL to become big when natty without becoming close to "muh powerlifting" strong in the process

>>40127524

Tell that to candito/zach

>>40127430
>Doing fucking pushdowns will INCREASE THE SIZE OF YOUR TRICEPS HOLY FUCK
It does. But as a natty, it really doesn't do all that much. It will grow a bit, maybe you'll even notice after YEARS of neglecting it, but you could never make up a weakpoint with this.

Just think about this:
You do a completely compound-based fb workout. The major lifts and some compounds (chins for example). Everything gets stimulated. Everything will grow. Your strongpoints will grow better, the weakpoints worse. Will adding 6x8 tricep isos magically bring your weak ass tricep up to par with that thicc lat? Shit no. It will improve to some degree, but you can't do it Kai Green like
>Ohh my bicep is weak, it needs a couple inches
>does a couple isos
>bicep is now strongpoint

This will NEVER happen as a natty. I have shitty arms. They were shitty when I did brosplits with all kinds of volume and exercises and they are exactly as shitty now, with me barely training them at all in a strength routine. My back always was good and it's still as good. Really not much of a difference at all proportion-wise.

>>40127539
they already know that roidz do the same thing for you that an actual routine does

Pure strength training, with minor (and i mean MINOR) assistance work is literally the final red pill of lifting.

You guys all right now on your splits, shit talking strength routines, yeah, don't worry, when you've mentally matured gym-wise, you'll come to the same exact realization.

File: 1484693264571.jpg (138KB, 500x324px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 500x324px

>>40127254
This is the most retarded thing I've read all week.

What's your point? You can't change your muscle insertions? No shit Sherlock-- that's not what bodybuilding is.

Get off /fit/ and neck yourself my dude.

>>40127653
Do an actual athletes beside bodybuilders even do splits? Does anyone but the >hypertrophy shills even train in the 8-12rep range? Was this all memes?

>>40127254
Rippletits sure has some shit genetics then because that fucker has a gut that won't quit

>>40127739
Nope.

Bodybuilding is literally the only place where you see retard-bro-splits happening.

Every other LIFTING sport does strength based routines, just like EVERY sport in the world that includes weightlifting into its training, they all do strength routines.

There is no one else on this earth besides gym junkies, roiders and nattycucks following roidcucks that do bro splits.

>>40127759
He's also like 70. Even Arnold looked like shit at his age before he hopped back on those protons.

>>40127739
Tons of athletes train in even more retarded ways than bro-splits

If you go to an "athlete" gym, where people who play team-based sports you are gonna be seeing the most retarded shit ever, boss ball squats and quarter squat-mornings all over the place

they also do cleans, which might be good idea, but in reality it's more like "snap-my-back-clean-ofd's"

>>40127803
They may not train properly, but they're not doing dumbbell curls and rope pushdowns......theyre still at least doing powerlifts/olympiclifts

>>40127604
my delts were a weak point, I started doing OHP 4 times a week for 2 years, now they're my strongest lift
shut the fuck up

>>40127839
>ohp 4 times a week for 2 years

did you progress on bench at all during that time?

>>>40127604
barbell OHP is one of the main compound lifts.. you did exactly what he said that you have to do...

>>40127839
You not being a total retard and actually doing the proper lifts in a fucking strength routine was taken as a given in this scenario, as I literally fucking said.

>I didn't do squats, but only leg extensions
>Then I started squats and my legs blw up
>this is proof that compound-based routines and strength training are not enough
Lmao. You friggin retard.

>>40127276
found the "bodybuilder" split midget everybody lol.

they're always so quick to get all bitchy and whiny whenever someone points out that their 5-6 day fairy tale horse shit is complete garbage.

come on everybody, let's all point and laugh at the glue eating retard.

>>40127875
I didnt do fucking strength routines I literally did brosplits except I did OHP extra every time

>>40127851
I almost bench 3 plate now for reps, gonna hit it this month

>>40127535
This isn't true at all.
A split is better than powerlifting for building muscle mass as long as you're eating and not fucking around.
You know what muh trve SS gets you? Ridiculous tree trunk legs and a gut.
Dude 5x5 squats everyday lmao isn't going to give you an attractive physique.
There's nothing wrong with training to maximize strength, but do you actually think that to be aesthetic you have to bench 400 lbs? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. At my college gym full of Chads with great upper bodies, most of them bench 2plate and some change and do a lot of dumbbell work.

>>40127887
This.

Their only response is to austim screech and say that they're right and you're wrong, and you can only prove them wrong by posting a pic of yourself, and if you don't look like Arnold at his peak than you're wrong by default.

This isn't surprising though, because bro-splitters don't know how to logic.

>>40127803
I meant actual athletes like pro footballers, fighters, etc.

But I guess amateur "athletes" like soccer players and such are probably even more retarded, because they fall for even dumber memes.

>>40127897
So you trained like a retard and then you stopped training like a retard and somehow that helped you with gains. And this disproves my point how?

>>40127898
This is mostly about standards and perception.

Those Chads you admire would look like DYELS in my eyes, or when compared to people who actually can bench 400+lb. I used to think that people who used 100lb dumbbells on seated OHP were huge and strong, boy was I wrong.

When you are benching 225lb+ yourself, take another look at those "ripped" Chads. You will laugh quietly to yourself and remember this post, I promise you that.

>>40127926
I only did 10-12 reps, I thought you said that was retarded? so I didnt change anything and I still changed my look entirely because it's not exactly like you say
you just have shit genetics

>>40127898
Suuure, if only you did what Chad did, you would totally look like him. Genetics don't matter, you can actually 100% change your proportions if you only did Chads dumbbell split. Also no roids are needed ;))))

>>40127926
Fair enough, pro footballers with expensive as fuck trainers would not fall into this group. Still, just go one level lower, and it looks like complete disaster when "athletes" train, even full time paid ones. There is no end to how fucking dense people are when it comes to strength and fitness. Luckily you don't actually need to be strong or smart for most sports.

File: dlaid.jpg (74KB, 480x600px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 480x600px

>>40127254
>fat powercel says you shouldn't lift to look better
really gave the noggin an uncloggin

>>40127949
Following a real well though-out program and progression you could have increased ALL YOUR LIFTS, and all your body parts with a similar amount as your OHP during that time, while also spending less time in the gym though.

>>40127957
No one's claiming that lifting can magically reconfigure your body, but focusing on certain groups/muscles works.
I used to be skeleton lord level thin with a super narrow frame, and after a couple of years of focusing on chest and shoulders I fill out most L shirts and have a decent V-taper. I don't squat 800 pounds but I look good (or at least better), which is what my goal is.
You seem to be taking the natty limit memes seriously. You can get well into "damn, he's a huge guy" territory without doing roids.
Actual steroid users are usually so big that they're seen as freaks. Aside from a few knowledgeable ones on /fit/ they generally look unnaturally large.

Most people never learn from their mistakes. I admit it took me nearly 4 years of doing a stupid self made bro-split routines before I woke up and realised I was achieving nothing besides burning calories.

If you asked me about a strength routine even just 1 year ago I would have laughed in your face and called you a fat cunt powerlifter or something.

I was so fucking wrong, can't believe for all those years I legitimately thought I knew better. and used anecdotal evidence (such as YouTubers etc) doing splits, in order to reinforce my own delusional beliefs about how I should be training.

I woke up when I realized almost every single person at my gym who I've seen over the last few years do bro-splits barely make any gains, then realizing I was no better.

>>40128004
I progressed everything. OHP just became my strong suit because I wanted it to be

>>40127949
My point is: A compound-based routine with some accessory lifts like chins will not give you a majorly different physique proportion-wise than some brosplit.
Your point: I did a brosplit and then I added OHP and my proportions changed.

These are unrelated. You'd have a point if you said 'I always did a brosplit with the main lifts and then I added lateral raises and my delts exploded'. You doing the main lifts and big compounds was an assumption that was taken as a given in this discussion.

>>40127936
I do bench 225 for ~5 and I still see them as fairly big guys. I'm fairly muscular myself, even compared to a lot of the posters here who were squatting 6plate after a month of training
You have genuine body dysmorphia if you think people aren't big until they bench 400lbs. The only people who do that are absolute monsters.

>>40128008
>Actual steroid users are usually so big that they're seen as freaks
No, 90% of steriod users are the curlbro Chads you admire.

>I used to be skeleton lord level thin with a super narrow frame, and after a couple of years of focusing on chest and shoulders I fill out most L shirts and have a decent V-taper.
Yes and I claim that you would have this exact frame, only maybe slightly different, if you did a strength routine without 'focusing on chest and shoulders'. Just try it yourself. Switch to big lifts + accessorys for a few months and see if your chest + delts that ou focused on so much chane majorly. I say they won't.

>>40128038
Well I don't know, maybe it's just me but, lets put this into an even broader perspective:

- I would not consider someone playing in division C good if division A was the best (applies to regular sports, and even e-sports)

- I would not think someone is great at (individual sport X) if he doesn't regularly bring home prizes at national level

- I would not consider somebody great at playing guitar (or instrument X), unless this somebody can improvise songs in the style of Yngwie Malmsteen or Allan Holdsworth (just two widely different examples)

- I would not consider somebody as highly educated unless you have a PhD

So why apply a different logic to lifting? I don't much care for aiming to be mediocre

File: Gjfz5jd.jpg (117KB, 709x781px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 709x781px

>people who say they "train for strength"

File: 113254.1440315914.png (617KB, 811x933px) Image search: [Google]

617KB, 811x933px

>>40128128
>people who say they "train for mass/aesthetics"

File: mastthemassmonster.jpg (74KB, 450x259px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 450x259px

>>40128149

'OK'

Poster on this board faggot.

>>40127524
Volume actually.

>>40128154
looks really short

>>40128154
>overcompensating roiding manlet is proof that brosplits and "training for aesthetics" work
'OK'

>>40128173
Sure, curling that bar a million times will give me Arnolds biceps.

>>40128173
No, volume does nothing by itself.

Strength by itself is enough up to a point (then you need to add volume to keep increasing strength).

Being able to do 100 reps at 50kg (5tons, a high volume workout) means absolutely nothing on lets say squats, and will do nothing for your 1rep max or size.

>>40128154

>sickening gains will come to you but only if you reply "thank you balloon man" in this thread

>>40128173
Yeah man, let's see how big, solid, and tight you can get, just benching 135 for 100 reps.

>>40127803
This guy gets it. Brother is a d1 football recruit. The shit they do at is trainer seems retarded. It's more explosive training. More speed training. less strength but it definitely is a huge part.

>You can't look the best, so you shouldn't bother looking good
My guess is you don't want to have to cut, so you've convinced yourself that the strongfat body you're headed for is the way.

File: 4532895983289532.png (10KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 300x300px

>>40128304
>le strength training makes you magically gain bodyfat out of thin air
>le bro-split makes you magically aesthetic out of thin air

>>40128304
Op:
>I'm just going to focus on total strength, followed up by keeping my body-fat low

Retarded shitposter
>My guess is you don't want to have to cut, so you've convinced yourself that the strongfat body you're headed for is the way

Neck yourself you illiterate mongo.

>>40128110
You do realize that your standards are beyond Asian dad level, right? Especially since "great" isn't that big of a compliment.

>>40128199
>No, volume does nothing by itself.
>Strength by itself is enough up to a point
Nope, it's fucking volume.
It's been categorically proven by pure fucking science.

>>40128187
That's...dumb.
Volume and intensity = mass.
Pure strength training/power lifting has never been pointed to as the one and only way to put on mass no mater what until recently and we have a fuckton of studies that outright state that this is bullshit.

>>40128375
It is not only volume. If volume was enough curling the bar as often as you possibly can would be the best method to grow.
Now if we talk 'lift as heavy as you can as often as you can', then you might be correct - but then we'd also come back to strength.

>>40128414
>Volume and intensity = mass.

>>40128530

>>40128199
>volume does nothing by itself
>>40128375
>Nope, it's fucking volume.

>>40128589
>do 5x10 chinups
>back grows but stops pretty quickly
>keep on doing 5x10 chinups for months
>back hasn't changed
>switch to doing 3x5 weighted chinups and just get stronger
>back consistently grows again

strength = size