Who's more retarded? Vegans or ke-tards?

>>40121203
vegans

> diet is based entirely on feel-good ethics
> swear up-and-down that it's a natural diet when they need to supplement everything
> 90% are skinnyfat fuccbois but hold up Patrick Baboon-i-whatever as proof that you can get big on beans and rice
> propagate pseudoscience that's easily disproved by even a cursory google search
> smug about their 'natural diet' while wolfing down refined soybean paste

ketofags are just as zealous, but at least keto has a lil bit more scientific backing than being a herbivore

>>40121203

ketards are fatshits trying to justify eating bacon.

vegans are more likely to be normal sized people, just that they're cucks and liberal.

ketotards are worse, at least in terms of /fit/ shitposting, in real life vegans are worse.

>>40121240

I'm on keto and eat way more fish than bacon.. Haven't had bacon or pork belly in weeks.

>salmon
>tuna
>mahi mahi

Thank you god.

>>40121203
They're both horrible. Just put all the meme diets in one category and call it a day.

>>40121231
>but at least keto has a lil bit more scientific backing
Lmfao, good one

>>40121203
/paleo/ is the kino diet.

>>40121323
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

medfag here. It's a valid method to lose weight but is definitely not sustainable outside of only that

>>40121314
You guys just eat less and better, right? Meme diets seem like just a starting point for people. They aren't long term things.

>>40121203
What are ke-tards? Is that something to do with ketosis?

>>40121203
>eat two fists of green leafy vegetable a day
>eat two fists of crucifer a day
>eat one fruit salad a day
>still eat meat
>fuck legumes
>moar fat

I don't hate my diet.

Biased question.

>>40121345
>links to wikipedia
>claims to be a med fag
Oh my sides. Gotta love 1st year pre-meds.

>>40121203
>>40121240
>>40121314
>>40121323
Clueless.

I tried being vegan and had more energy but my body can't handle beans

I lost weight and got abs for once in my life with keto but had zero energy
>>40121345
if you were actually in school you would have learned that WIKIPEDIA ISN'T A RELIABLE SOURCE

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>>40121420

>bb-b-b-buy muh bacon and poptarts! fuckin CARBfag you'll never understand the science of eating a bowl of melted cheese, bacon and a small head of cauliflower with half a tub of mayo, ITS FUCKING SCIENCE ILL LOSE FAT AND GAIN MUSCLE AT THE SAME TIME

>>40121420
yes you definitely are

>>40121436
How would pop tarts be carb free in any world view?

>>40121424
How long were you vegan for?

>>40121454

you are allowed 30-50g of carbs ya know, and we all know the ketotard does not partake in vegetables and would rather utilize that precious little allowance instead on a bit of dirty carbs/grains (still enough for a burger).

>>40121203
The one that is shilled by leftwing parties becaude it is a method of voter retention.

We MUST kill keturds

>>40121340
/paleo/ ONLY works if you are 100% aryan germanic white

>>40121424
>>40121419
>W-wikipedia is no-not reliable!
Confirmed for actual high school dropouts. Tell me more how if I eat coke and mentos I'll die.

Look up what the "Notes" Section is for, you mongoloids.

The problem with vegan and vegetarian is the difficulty in hitting the correct saturated fat target which should be very high (mine is 150g). In fact, it's impossible to have a high fat diet, perhaps medium, but either way very high in carbs.

Pervasive carb intake means occasional or frequent high insulin spikes, which eventually lead to insulin resistance. Insulin is extremely damaging to the whole body. It causes inflammation, resulting in cholesterol being required for repairs. That's just one side effect from high insulin.

You can never ever ever get fat on a zero carb diet. No carbs mean no insulin mean no chemical mechanism to increase adipose tissue. Fat consumed cannot be taken up as adipose tissue. But excess carbs will, because that's insulin's fucking purpose, and it should be left as an emergency reaction not a day to day event!

Plants are deficient in certain nutrients. Meat, especially raw or rare red meat, is a complete provided you eat high fat. No B vitamin deficiency!

I am a carnivore only. I eat nothing but meat, fish, eggs, and cheese/cheese/butter. No plants. Less than 5g carbs a day. I never have insulin fluctuations, no energy spikes, I can skip meals without getting hungry. Sugar is revolting. I drink water only.

Eat like a predator, not the prey.

For those willing to dig, read up on the Bear from the Grateful Dead. He did zero carb, as above, for 47 years. Read his diary, and research for yourself.

I'm not aiming this at vegans or vegetarians. I respect your choice. But for those curious at a rather unorthodox idea in today's age, read and try yourself.

Don't take this as criticism, but the programming offered by the USDA is not gospel.

Fruits, especially modern fruit, are large and sweet and absolutely loaded with fructose. Fructose is a very difficult sugar to digest as it can only be metabolized in the liver, and there's a price be paid for that in phosphor, higher insulin, and nuking your leptin supply. More leptin means you stuff your face more, leading to more insulin, and repeat.

Saturated fat is what the body runs best on. Poly oxidizes rapidly and turns into free radicals. Better have that vitamin C supplement. Mono.. better but omega 6 is not terrific. Saturated is stable and will not oxidize in your body. The metabolic reaction for saturated fat is efficient.

Eating a fatty cut off steak will generally get you that 80/20 split. That's all you need. And contrary to popular belief, fiber isn't required. Just more toxic carbs.

>>40121203
Ive been vegetarian for 10 years. It has nothing to do with ethics or health, i just think the idea of eating a carcass is kinda disgusting. But thats a personal choice, i have no problem with people eating meat next to me.

That being said, i dont know how i could survive being vegan. I get too much of my protein from dairy (eggs, milk, cheese). I do balance it with rice/beans, veggies, and whole grains. Being just vegetarian and hitting macros really isnt that hard. You just kinda get used to eating the same shit all the time. My breakfast is always the same, my dinner is a rotation of 3 dishes. Just count calories/macros, dont put shit into your body and poof you have a well balanced diet.

>>40122955
Hope you're eating your organ meats. Also your diet is as much of a pseudoscience meme as veganism.

>>40123318
What diets besides "eat less, eat better" aren't?

Veganism is not a diet per se; it's an ethical position that includes food choices (but also stuff like not wearing fur, etc.), but the food part has to do more about avoiding certain sources of nutrients and not with what nutrients one actually consumes or does not consume. Doctors seem to think it CAN be healthy given that one gets all the proper nutriens.

Keto is just a diet and has nothing to do with ethics. Doctors seem to recommend it for certain disorders but I don't really know how healthy it is if you don't have said conditions. Doesn't seem to be bad at least and I've heard very good things.

Also, it's quite possible to be both vegan and do keto.

I don't do either, I just wanna clear this up. Nothing against either, just not my thing.

>>40123467
>it's quite possible to be both vegan and do keto
I don't think you can do vegan AND keto without massive hassle, in any case vegetarian and keto.

>>40121203
I was thinking of doing starting Keto next month when I begin cutting. Is it really a meme?

>>40122955

your whole post is invalid because protein releases insulin too

>>40123528
Oh yeah I checked it out just out of curiosity and it's basically the most autistic diet ever: shit-ton of tofu, very little veggies and tons of nuts and avocados. And just that over and over like every day for years. Massive hassle indeed, but some people seem to be really into it.

>>40123467
>but the food part has to do more about avoiding certain sources of nutrients and not with what nutrients one actually consumes or does not consume

You contradict yourself in the same sentence.

Eating solely meat CAN be healthy as well, it's just that virtually nobody does that because it's retarded as veganism. Veganism isn't healthy, it's just a fucking cult.

It depends.

Keto can be eating piles of microwave bacon, butter and cheese or it can be bowls of green beans with chicken breast and fish. If you are talking about the latter, than definitely them.

>>40121392

>eating fists full of food
>not eating the fists

Enjoy your no gainz

Keto is something you do on a bulk to keep the amount of adipose you gain down.
You can use it on a cut too if you want, but in general it's difficult to do and has some nasty downsides of you aren't careful.

>>40121203

Ketards, as being vegan actually does make you live longer.

>>40122955

Can't tell if b8 or if this guy is legit killing himself.

>>40123671
Isn't tofu carb heavy as all fuck?

>>40123596
No, it's not.
>Inb4 angry retards saying "M-muh it's psuuudooo sienseeee" angrily while they chew the most god awfully disgusting vegetables they could muster to cook

>>40123815
What is the bacon meme?
>tfw I remove all bacon in all meme keto recipes I do because I dislike bacon

Honestly trying keto because I'd just have to remove potatoes, pasta and rice from my normal diet.

>>40121203
Ketards. At least vegans have a pretty valid moral basis for their beliefs. Well, except the dumb ones.

>>40121203
Vegans. It is a complete fucking cult with all the pseudoscience and absoluteness going around. Ketotards are usually just autists that take low-carb too seriously.

>>40123815
>bowls of green beans with chicken breast and fish

But who was fat?

>>40123704
like any group of people that follow an ideal, there's a few bad apples. there's actual substance to a legitimate vegan diet

but with almost anything people don't understand or can't/refuse to learn about (ignorance), they'll bash it because it's different.

it's hilarious watching people take offense to veganism even more so than radical idiot vegans take offense to meat eaters.

try to have an open mind about things...maybe less talking and more listening. most of you seem like fools here, probably are fools.

>>40125393
Except keturds. I did NOT suffer months and MONTHS eating the most tasteless, grueling and repulsive food for some faggot to go "Lol u should just not eat carbs u idiot"

>>40125654
But...what if you did?

>>40125393
This. I've been vegan for around 6 months now and the plant-based diet has turned my training the fuck up. I've healed parts of myself that I didn't even know could be sick, and am stronger than I've ever been. If any omnivores have any questions or would like to debate the morality of murdering animals and eating their flesh, let me know. If you want to see what my physique looks like and/or what my diet and lifestyle is like, please feel free to ask.

>>40121345

You're getting terms mixed up and acting like a knowitall faggot. I've done a lot of keto and every single time some kid who's in medschool has to try and lecture me on how dangerous it is because they can't tell the difference between a ketogenic diet and ketoacidosis.

Keto isn't zero carbs.

Ketards
Atleast vegans consume sufficient carbs

>>40123955

>You can use it on a cut too if you want, but in general it's difficult to do and has some nasty downsides of you aren't careful.

How can people be this objectively wrong?

>>40122955
This has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

>if bait
Just not funny, try harder

>if srs
Actually very funny

>>40123596
I'm starting week 3 on keto. I'm down 13 pounds and lifts haven't gone down. Do lots of research and push past that flu period

>>40126039

You virtually get no keto flu if you monitor your magnesium/potassium intake. Just get on Lo-salt which costs like 1/10th of supplements.

>>40126142
I didn't ever get headaches. But the transition of running from carbs to fat and that sluggish feeling. That's part of the flu

>>40125393
>like any group of people that follow an ideal, there's a few bad apples. there's actual substance to a legitimate vegan diet

Yeah, you're totally not a vegan.

>yeah vegans are bad, but you know whose worse? NON VEGANS. I'm not a vegan myself, I totally eat steak but I still think veganism is totally healthy and great and everyone should do it :^)

>>40121203
a plant-based diet is really healthy, but vegans autism is another thing entirely. Just another excuse to herd and get laid, while following a punk attitude

Keto is an extreme way of forcing a catabolic state on the body, while missing vitamins, performance, muscle and hair. You can get the same results doing HIIT every other day

>>40124458
What's the diff between low carb and keto?

>>40127445

Low carb is low carb, keto is minimal carbs for bodily function (usually 25g)

>>40121203
both there is no grain or potato how do they achieve carb intake?

>>40127471
So if I just eat beans and like, tomatoes and broccoli for my carbs I should be fine?

Everything has carbs in it, more or less, right? I'm just like, not getting bun on burgers, no alchohol or sweets.

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Can somone tell me why vegans are idiots?

>inb4 list of vitamin deficientcies that everyone else has
>inb4 soy leads to gyno

Vegans got the following

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>>40127496

Keto isn't really a diet you can just "eat like this" and wing it, it's best to measure things pretty precisely when you're starting out. But yeah I usually get my daily carb intake from tomatoes/ green beans etc

And when a ketoer talks about carbs they're meaning net carbs (total carb count - fiber) So some shit might seem high carb but are actually sweet for keto, like chia seeds in pic related are only actually 8g of carbs per 100g because you can't process the fiber.

>>40127445

Low carb means youre not in ketosis but your overall carb macros are low, generally taken pre and post workout for the brunt of it

100 to 150g is the usually the case for non pros below 200lbs

>>40127445
Not who you replied to.

They're the same. Ketogenic diet is kind of a misnomer because you don't have to enter ketosis. Ketosis is a complete, last stage of low carb diets that comes from when you have so few carbohydrates, that your brain needs to undergo ketosis of triglyceride in adipose tissue to fuel the brain. The brain uses sugars exclusively as means of fuel because pH imbalances caused from converting fat to sugar via the Citric Acid cycle WITHIN the brain would cause you to die. Ketosis isn't very commonly achieved on ketogenic diets because you usually get enough carbs to make this unnecessary.

The guy who you replied to is completely uneducated though and has no clue what he's talking about. Ketogenic diets aren't really optimal for people who have low bodyfat percentages because the RATIO of gluconeogenically created sugar to ketogenically created sugar is not worth it and your progress will be slow. There are benefits, such as increased performance and respiration (caused by the increase of pH which activates various cardiac and respiratory centers), but if you're trying to cut, you may want to consider your options. But for fat as fatasses, who have high amounts of bodyfat and easily accessible fat, a ketogenic diet is perfect because your body avoids slow gluconeogenesis if it requires more muscle and needs energy in a faster form from the Citric Acid cycle.

So keto isn't a meme by any standards and has a lot of science behind it and is commonly accepted in the medical world.

t. 4th year med school student

>>40127540
Well, I "cut carbs" about a week and a half ago and am seeing results. I'd rather just keep going with this than start measuring. I was just worried I was actually gonna do Ketosis without realizing it and fuck up everything. I can't afford to feel like shit at work.

I'll just keep avoiding obvious shit.

>>40127577
Understood.

>>40127582

Why are med school students so self righteous on subjects they only briefly touch on? worse than arguing with a law student.

>The guy who you replied to is completely uneducated though and has no clue what he's talking about.

If you're referring to these posts >>40127471
>>40127540 what exactly gives you this impression? Because they're worded in a dumbed-down every day conversational manner? It's not usually necessary to spout a bunch of technical jargon when having a light discussion other than if you're an insecure faggot wanting everyone to know you're a "4th year med school student"

>>40127611

Oh yeah if you're not actually trying to do a ketogenic diet you'll be fine, I thought it was the opposite, and yeah just keep avoiding obvious shit and you'll be sweet.

In my experience, the biggest deal about false keto is insulin reduction
hence why it trashes your performance and gains, but helps fatasses on getting out of bed

>>40127675
Actually, this material wasn't brief at all. I was surprised by how much this material is stressed in med school and how much of it applied to lifting. The Anatomy, Physiology, and Microbiology classes you take go a lot over this material and how it matters. Most of Physiology was this material.

I was referring to the guy who said ketards are just guys who take low-carb to seriously, because it's not really that simple. That's why I spouted so much jargon. It's not about just saying nonsense to prove that I'm super smart :3333, but it's to give you a basis of what to research on your own if you (logically) don't want to take some random faggot's advice on 4chan who's claiming to be something. It's to help give people who want to research the individual parts of what makes an optimal diet, or why these body processes occur, a legitimate direction.

>>40127675
>>40127777
also check em faggot

>>40122968
>fiber isn't required

B-b-but I like to be able to easily shit...

>>40125683
Veesaws is that u

>>40125683
Diet and physique?

There's nothing inherently wrong with veganism since it is in fact proven to help you live a longer, healthier life. The problem comes when vegans try to enforce their beliefs onto other people.

But the same can be said for any group. Fitness buffs who try to enforce fitness onto fatties. Graduates who try to enforce their methods of learning onto undergraduates. Etc.

Veganism itself isn't to blame; retards are.

>>40121203
Both are misguided.

>>40122955
>difficulty in hitting the correct saturated fat target which should be very high (mine is 150g).
holy fuck shit you better stop that shit before you fucking drop dead of a heart attack or stroke