/NBB/ Natty Bodybuilding General

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>>39950020
>The general premise is that we train in sets of 8-12 ITT.
nice meme retard

saged

How exactly do you count calories and percentages? Do you have to use measuring cups and scales? How long does it usually take? I'd like to set up a rigorous diet, but don't have enough interest to do all that stuff all the time.

as a rule of thumb, if a youtuber looks natty and is under 5'9 then he is natty.

>>39950141

try this wbesite called chronometer

it counts calories AND macros for you for FREE

I tried my fitness pall and it was so confusing and hard to use I switched to a pen and paper before I found chronometer

>measuring cups and scales

Yes if you wanna just eat random shit, gotta measure and weigh everything.

What is a lot easier, and a lot of people do, is to just make meals for the next couple days/week all at once, weigh it out, and package it in Tupperware containers and you know exactly how much you are eating and it's macros

>>39950055

>strengththeroy.com

the premise of that site is that their advice will make you stronger while the goal for bodybuilders is to get larger

Obviously it's hard for a beginner to do one without the other but the (idea) is that 8-12 results in more size less strength which is preferable

>>39950020
>Natty Bodybuilding

youre not serious are you?

>>39950202
>the premise of that site is that their advice will make you stronger while the goal for bodybuilders is to get larger
you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

read the article linked in the image before you open your dumb dyel mouth again

or just read the fuckin image and try to comprehend what it's saying, it's fairly simple

>>39950202
>myfitness pal was confusing and hard to use
>being this retarded
>thinking you're capable of giving advice

STOP

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>>39950020
>There is a bodybuilding general in the form of /fraud/, /owg/, /plg/, but no resource on the board for people that want to learn more about bodybuilding specifically.

THAT'S WHAT THE ENTIRETY OF /FIT/ IS FOR

>>39950237
>i use calorie count for my diet
>i tried myfitness pal after starting calorie count because i wanted to see if it was better
>its much more complicated, didnt even bother trying to figure it out
that anon isnt alone, i saw the "pay for premium" part of mfp and noped my way out of the app

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>>39950211

I also have an image are you going to toss your training methodology in the trash now

>a website

I have a website too.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek8.htm

The fact that PLs that care about strength train in low low rep ranges while BBs stick to 8-12 overwhelmingly seems to suggest that... if you want to get strong, lower rep ranges, and higher rep ranges to get larger.

This seems logical to me.

>>39950267
you are a fucking mongoloid

>>39950237

Certain foods, you enter, like ground beef, and the only fucking way to enter it is '1 package - Aldis" or "1 lb"

What if I want to enter 5.9 ounces because that's what I ate?

Shit is awful.

>giving advice

They 100% know who is giving them advice

>I will trip mostly so people know that I *do not* have either of those things
>I will trip mostly so people know that I *do not* have either of those things


Also having a good physique is hardly, hardly relevant in terms of having an opinion on if MFP or chronometer is better, that's sort of, an opinion,

>>39950277
>insult
>argument
pick one

>>39950300
he literally ignored the argument to go with his stupid broscience hearsay related to entirely enhanced bodybuilding

if you (or he) want to argue, go read the image, see that there are actual studies done to back up the image, then read the article on the website and understand that you're also a fucking mongoloid

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Got this routine from another anon's post. My goal is strength+a bit of size. Anon was working AxBxCDx as shown.

Is there any reason why I couldn't do ABxCDxx? Fits better with my schedule.

Any changes to said routine that you guys would recommend?

>>39950260
>>39950298
You two are retarded and don't know how to use a simple app

Wait, do you think you're using a tripcode?

>>39950244

>that's what /fit/ is for

No. It's for people to tell obese people that want to "look good on the beach" to "follow this routine made by a football coach to get people STRONGER for a SPORT, drink a GALLON of MILK a day, and AVOID CARDIO".

The prototypical user that actually takes his advice from the board instead of just taking advice from other sources and shitposting here will

1. Start at 30% bf.

2. Six month SS + Six month +2000 calorie a day bulk (Eat big get big).

3. Never count a calorie (for nerds)

4. Avoid cardio (Wouldn't want to murder those gains + why care about cardiovascular health)

At the end of this process they will emerge on t he beach looking like they got beached and be unable to walk up a flight of a flight of stairs

>>39950346

why you do this d00d

>>39950398
Ignore this imposter, I don't know who he is. I'm the real OP, I don't even know what's going on with that name

>>39950398
>>39950417
please stop, I'm the real OP

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>>39950417
>>39950445
faggots pls im the real alex here

Well this general has potential. One good thing Strengtheory did was amalgamate natural bbing calculators to get a decent range of estimation for your potential. For instance me being 5'9 with my wrist and ankle circumferences I can be about 180 lb at 10% or 165 at 5% completely shredded stage ready.

>>39950486
Nice use of photoshop faggot, stop trying to derail my thread

>>39950445
Stop

>>39950316
You can get strong as long as you ramp up the weight every workout.
You can get mass as long as you have the volume.


That is it.
That is all.

Also, 8-12 reps has been recently stated to be optimal for new trainers or completely untrained individuals.
And it's been shown that simple calisthenics and stretching are superior for every single person at every stage of life in ever single society that has at any point concerned itself with physical fitness.


Your rebuttal?

>>39950539

>5% bf
>natty

'No'

how do i get a thicc waist without looking like a fatfuck

>>39950592
I'm not going to argue with you if you're just gonna ignore the studies and argue around them

when controlled for volume, there is no difference in hypertrophy between sets of 5 reps or sets of 8-12 BUT sets of 5 are better for strength. 8-12 is an old school broscience meme.

>>39950626
Unilateral upper body movements are great at building obliques

Circus db press, one arm farmers walk, turkish get ups

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WELL WHAT IS IT YOU FUCKS DO I GO 8-12 OR SHOULD I GO 5x5??

I want to get bigger but I don't want to be jacked and not be able to lift as much as I like like I can

>>39950020
OP your thread is a fucking trainwreck, just quit while you're ahead

>>39950601
It's POSSIBLE to get to 5% bodyfat as a natural.
But by god, they will HATE themselves and the entire goddamned world while they take up the broken glass bottle covered road to get there.

Those guys will have lower test levels then fucking castrates and look horribly deflated and lose a good amount of muscle mass in the process.

I honestly have no idea why natural men have to follow the rules of the BBer when it comes to looking good as a bodybuilder.

Going below 11% should be seen as something that naturals should not do.

Can I ask you guys something.
Do you think all natural men should be advised against going below 10-12% bodyfat and sort of push beach body fat levels as the norm?

>>39950654
Work up to a daily technical max of 1-3 reps in primary movements to drive strength and then do backoff sets anywhere from 5-20 reps to drive size

>>39950662
8% is actually the lowest you can go before your hormones really crash. I think 8-12 is optimal for male function, 15 is honestly fat let's be real

>>39950672
Got it, thanks

>>39950629
1-3 is actually better for strength.
And 8-12 when controlled for weight will actually get you comparable strength gains, but because of the volume will also get you more muscle mass.
And it's been shown that bodybuilding type workouts are optimal for complete beginners and beginner powerlifting stuff is quite litterally for people who have some low amount of physical fitness already.

Powerlifter here, but I also want to develop a certain level of aesthetics. I bench press four times a week and have started to add in a 3-4 sets of 10-15 curls after most sessions, but my arms still seem small, especially my biceps. Any tips?

>>39950658

Hey, we're talking about rep ranges, and no one is whining about how they don't have girlfriends.

>>39950654

5x5 for sure

>>39950693
>And 8-12 when controlled for weight
you have no fucking clue what "controlled for" means

I'm out

>>39950694
Are you getting a pump when you curl? If not then your form is bad. Don't neglect the contribution of the brachioradialis in arm size.

>>39950267
>posts a paint scribble
>Look I have a picture too XD
>bb.com
>See my website is better than urs xd

Kill yourself bro.

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Alex should I bulk or cut. 160lbs 5'7

>>39950719
Cut you are looking soft. But some decent size

>>39950385
>newfag who takes memes seriously is gonna give people ""advice""

Kek

>>39950712
I get a pump, yeah. I do my sets super strict then sometimes go for a burnout with cheat reps and lighter weight. I usually do a mix of hammer curls and pronated to supinated grip

>>39950687

this desu

from what people say, their dick stops working and they get depressed at contest bf % of 7.5%, some even at 8% have this problems.

>>39950694

triceps are the biggest muscle in your arms so work your triceps too

work your forearms or they'll be disproportionately small

mast's wrist roller really helped my forearms go from toothpicks to slightly 1% larger toothpick's and I highly recomend

IMO V taper is the most important thing to looking good so maybe do some pull ups too

>>39950687
Lot of seals and special ops guys sit around 12-15% because it's apparently optimal for male health and needed for when they need extra energy to keep them alive.

Anyway, the amount of effort natural, like really really natural guys, go through to maintain a sub double digit bodyfat is ridiculous and basically kills their libido and normal test production.

I think we should push 10-13% bodyfat as being a male fitness ideal.

>>39950719

reee no bully me dude

probably bulk you're looking really natty and dyel desu you could use the size

youll be BIG like me one day dont worry

>>39950693
Jesus christ dude are you 12?
The dude posted several studies that literally PROVE the opposite of what you're saying, and all you do is say "no ur wrong" and continue spewing the bullshit you learned from bb.com like a fucking mantra.

>>39950749
I work my triceps a lot with bench, I do need to get onto some wrist/forearm work. I'll look into wrist rollers. What do you think of farmers walks or wrist curls?

>>39950705
Explain it to me.

>>39950741
Ah well then I have no advice to give lad except for increase frequency to 3-4x/week if you're not there already

>>39950760
You make a good point about resisting stress under dire circumstances. I was thinking of function more of in modern life lol, wearing suits having a sharp jawline slaying puss.

>>39950774
wrist rollers are hands down the best forearm builder, can work both pronators and supinators with it, easy on the joints because you can make it almost all concentric. wrist curls feel awful on the joint to me, farmers great for building strength but not so much size

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>>39950766
Just jump on test already with me bby and we can eat Taco Bell together and make gains.

>>39950784
>tries to argue acting like he knows he's some kind of expert on the field
>throws around statements like "it's been shown that x" without backing them up
>gets called the fuck out on his bullshit

>ok lol pls explain 2 me xd

Kys senpai

>>39950768
Did you actually read any of those fucking studies?

>>39950730

people un-ironically bulk at 35% bf and unironically just 'eat as much as you can natty' bulk

look

>>39943689

everyone is saying 'bulk bulk' out of hopes that he comes back with a "progress" pic in 6 months for them to laugh at

very mean spirited

Plus, if you are a typical fat fuck, and someone tells you that you can keep being a fatty, (actually, you can eat MORE than ever before now!) and that is just IDEAL for asthetics, well, they're gonna "lean bulk" (at 40% bf)

>>39950799
fuck that is some disgusting skin

>>39950807
The most you know about the subject comes from a picture that you or someone else constantly posts.
You know up there in the sticky?
That thing with the dinosaur?
Go listen to what Mcdonald actually says about putting on muscle mass.
Go look at what people who aren't getting paid to push strength training or have some kind of ulterior motive says about it.

Actually fucking read about the subject.

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My friend says he uses this as a supplement to his protein intake, but I'm admittedly not experienced with anything outside of pre-workout and whey.
There's not a definite answer I can find online about this but I think its supposed to help your body get the most out of your protein by processing more and help with recovery?
I don't know, can anyone weigh in

>>39950808
Great rebuttal bro. Go read up and then come talk to me again.

>>39950799

>start pinning
>as a skeleton
>that hasn't started noob gains yet
>bulk obviosuly on cycle
>my skin literally explodes as I gain weight so rapidly
>next thing I know, I am one giant stretch mark

24/7 free tony the tiger cosplay how could I turn it down?

Are you the guy in CBT that says he's from hawaii?

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>>39950857
No I'm not from Hawaii lol. And you'll be fine I started pinning at 113lbs. Not many stretch marks either.

>>39950885
> roiding for this

>>39950851
That's what you're going with.
A tacit admittance of ignorance.

>>39950784
"controlled for" means you're comparing two different things with an identical control value to see whether it changes

how I used it earlier:
>when controlled for volume, there is no difference in hypertrophy between sets of 5 reps or sets of 8-12 BUT sets of 5 are better for strength.

in other words, when you're doing the same volume, 5 reps sets are better for strength than 8-12 and the same for hypertrophy, so 8-12 is FUCKING POINTLESS

you can't just say "8-12 controlled for weight" it makes no fucking sense. and obviously if you're comparing the same weight but one set is done at 8 reps and the other is done at 5 then the 8 reps set will fucking win, you can lift a higher percentage of your 1RM when you do fewer reps

anyway you're a fucking idiot beginner talking about things he doesn't understand just like the rest of /fit/

I thought I'd read the thread just to make fun of Alex but fuck that, /fit/ outside fraud is a goddamn cesspool of garbage

>>39950847
>proprietary blend
Generally code for underdosed ingredients, if those ingredients are even present. Particle-sized BCAA sounds pretty meme tier--speed of digestion really isn't that fucking important. EAAs only is a pretty good move though.

I wouldn't buy it but I would throw it in if I got a free tub.

>>39950894
Yea they're not magic I still have a shit diet I eat fast food daily and workout for maybe 30-40 mins a day. I'm in college very busy with work and school I just like steroids and making gains at a faster rate with minimal effort. Show me your body I bet I'm still ahead.

Who here constantly overtrains and knocks hard?

>>39950885

Your base was pathetic and youve used drugs to gain muscle. Good luck with gaining or maintaining mass once you come off with your no doubt pathetic nutrition.

>>39950911
So it is for recovery and better protein synthesis. I walked into a local vitamin shop and the owner was a lifter who let me get it for 15 off to try it

>>39950963
>come off
nice meme

>>39950919
>making gains
think again bud
you're taking steroids for shit gains but you like it
save your money next time you want to pin and just work out natty, you look like it

>>39950919
> steroids
> not magic
> make gains with minimal effort
> make excuses for terrible progress whilst dealing with magic

>>39950971
Yea I won't be coming off ever bud.

>>39950055
>No difference in hypertrophy between 30% 1RM & 80% 1RM.

Is this legit? If so why am I working so hard?

>>39950964
I mean it might make a 5% difference but the other 95 is lifting eating sleeping correctly. They're marked up hugely in shops so letting you get it for 15 off is really just selling it at internet retail price

>>39950995
Show me your current body I couldn't have gone from 113 to 160 fgt.

>>39951002
because doing billions of reps is boring, it's harder to know when you're approaching failure, and because strength is fun

>>39950907
>thought I'd read the thread just to make fun of Alex but fuck that, /fit/ outside fraud is a goddamn cesspool of garbage

You see my frustration? I talked about it in fraud but bimbo got triggered. There is very little resources for newbies here, just actual toxic advice.

The only reason I made any fucking progress AT ALL is because of the fucking roid general thread. How sad is that?

Why do you think Natties pollute ur general?

>make fun of Alex

Dude I do it fine just by myself l0l you can't possibly say anything or do anything that makes me look worse than I do with blogposts

///immune///

>>39950919

Yeah don't worry he is just pissed you look better than he does.

Why these people spend their lives comparing themselves to other I will never understand, you could be number two placed at the Olympia and still an insecure wreck with this attitude

I cannot even understand in what universe it effects his life what you pin

>>39950897
Big words coming from some dipshit who likes to throw terms around he doesn't even know.

You got btfo m8, just shut your retard mouth

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>>39951016
>show me your current body to prove I couldn't put in the work for my body and I still don't
kekekekeke
I won't tell ya what to do with your money though friend

>>39950998
legit if you're blasting and cruising and look like that your pathetic. let me tell you this, you might think now that blasting and cruising is a great idea, but guess what. peoples priorities change and their goals change, and so will yours. I have so many friends that are above 100kg and 8%bf and blast and cruise and their biggest regret is doing it. Not using drugs itself but blasting and cruising, reason why? your HPTA is FUCKED, well and trully fucked.

Chance of having kids? probably sub 5%.
Come of drugs? guess what? no more fucking boners or sex or sex drive.
"Oi bruh il just pct".not a chance of being back at normal levels of test....EVER.
So guess who now has to shoot test e every week for the rest of their lives just to remain in a state or normality.

and guess what, these are guy who look fucking epic, your going to do it to yourself AND YOU LOOK LIKE SHIT.

If you arent a competitive BBer, blasting and cruising is not for you. Im all for blasting and cruising if youve had children and are using test and these other drugs while or HRT/TRT. But to do it while your in your 20s is rediculous. Especially when your not even close to your natural potential. Your doing so much more harm than good.

>>39950907
Oh well sorry.
I spent my time working out and playing sports rather then jacking off over english books.
So you know.

Anyway, You can gain as much strength by doing 8-12 reps and superior mass.

This has been proven basically everywhere.

Once again. Your rebuttal.

>>39951016
lol 70kg and on drugs, i was 70kg at 16 years old before lifting. thats actually so sad.

>>39951047
No big words here bruh.
Just asking you to put up or shut up.

>>39951081
Here's your (you)

>>39951081
This is the level of stupidity that bullshit bb.com articles peddle

>>39950963

Yo d00d stop

It's not a competition. Someone else pinning to make progress that's not possible for us doesn't diminish what you are doing and have done, or anything

The only thing that anyone could do on gear that's bad is competing in a drug tested league

He's not so it doesn't effect your life. Let go of this totally irrational anger.

Just accept that natty gains are slow and painful or start pinning already

Living your life pissed about what another man does with his money and body is stupid

The idea here wasn't 'let's bitch and whine that people use roids' more 'tLk about how to make gains in size' and avoid falling for meme power lifter routines

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>>39950325
Add higher deadlift volume man, that's a quick way to find you limit. Operate under a laod that won't stress you joints so much breh.

>>39951081
>contradicts over a handful of studies proving the opposite
>doesn't post a single reference

Wew lad

>>39950385
I always thought that face you make showing off your jaw gains from mastic gun was literally you puckering your lips and having your mouth open at an angle for muscle representation. Little did I think that's how you actually try to keep your jaw at all times.
Why are you so autistic.
How do you fail so hard at not listening to all the people telling you what you're doing is wrong.
Do you lack that little voice in the back of your head or is it autistic as well.

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>>39951016
>mfw 5'8" and 160 before lifting
>mfw natty at that
You're not a manlet too are you?

>>39951081
wong mate sorry,

Most people gain more strength between 3-5 reps as opposed to 8-12.

Theres a difference between strength and hypertrophy training.

Both arnold and Coleman have both said they trained in powerlifting style routines. And theyre probably the 2 most successfuyl Mr O's of all time.

>>39950055

It's missing a column titled "Aesthetics Effect"

>>39951069
Eh just started to blast and cruise because every time I cycled in the past would lose everything post due to my lack in diet slash poor lifting habits. And I'll still have kids one day look at the pros bro

>>39951167
what exactly do you think hypertrophy is

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>>39950202

>chronometer

nice site you got there

>>39950385

But I read that sufficiently strenuous exercise can get you roughly the same amount of VO2/max as cardio.

>>39951190
cronometer for the record

>>39951106
Sorry I don't buy into the strength base and bulk cut for naturals thing you faggots peddle around here.

>>39951132
I'm not actually contradicting anything, go and read the studies.

>>39951151
We're talking naturals here.
Secondly arnold trained for hours on end every fucking day with bodybuilding type training. Powerlifting was a rare fucking thing for him.
Coleman CLAIMED to lift that much and mostly did it for the cameras.

You can put on comparable strength, also you can gain more strength from doing 1-3 reps singles at 75-90% of your max multiple times a day.
Every day.

It's just fucking impossible for normal busy people.

>>39951190

https://cronometer.com

Just ignore TDEE and BMR and all that shit, you gotta calculate your own, no website can get it accurate or even close

It is amazing. Tracks every macro and calorie with ease

>>39951193
vo2max isn't the only important metric for CV health

>>39950267
stop arguing and do BOTH you retards

>not wanting to be strong AND look good

>>39951135

>improving yourself is wrong

Kek. I should just get surgery when the option of keeping my jaw positioned properly is there right?

Or just accept a recessed chin and underbite?

>trying to

That's how I keep it 24/7 there is no try. Shit is EZ. Don't even need to consciously try anymore.

>listening to all the people

Why would I listen to crabs when I'm on my way out of the bucket

>>39951110
I agree, it isnt a competition.

Yes, Noob/natty gains are painfully slow, but lets be realistic. 58kg and using drugs is just silly. Im not just saying that its stupid for his sake but for the sake of others. If you cant gain mass without drugs at this weight then either your diet is seriously flawed or your training is. If you rely on using the drugs to gain mass then once you come off your going to lose a serious amount of mass if not all of it due to the lack of knowledge in diet and nutrition regardless of PCT.

To say "i wont ever come off" is stupid. Dorian Yates did just to have kids, and he was Mr O. Even then there was no guarantee he would have kids and chances are it came down to pure luck and a shitload of fertility drugs.

Im not saying steroids shouldn't be used, Im currently doing a pct for a 16 week 800mg tren e 250mg test e cycle. Though im 90kg @ 8%. This guys blasting and cruising and not even 80kg yet.

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>>39950687
>8-12 is optimal for male function

more like 12-15. assuming you have muscle on your frame, 12-15 will still look good and you will perform your best here

>>39951232

Even ignoring that... if you want to be as big or as strong as possible you pretty much have to work in multiple rep ranges. No successful powerlifter exists solely in the 1-5 rep range and no top level bodybuilder lives entirely in the 8-12 range.

>>39951175

Pros:
Serious diet (nutritionists)
Serious Training
Doctors monitoring them constantly
Access to virtually all drugs because they are PRO BODYBUILDERS.

You:
Shit diet (no/shit nutritionists if any)
Probably shit training
No doctors monitoring you
Not a pro.

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>>39951272
spot on my man

>>39951254
Those guys are all on gear, HEAVY amounts of gear.
We need pics of natural guys...sadly, it's fucking impossible to find natural guys with mid level bodyfat.

>>39951244

Also you'll be happy to know that I do not need to pucker my lips anymore, as it has gotten more natural. Haven't ever been keeping my fucking mouth open, that was legit your autism

Everything I post about mew,mastic, non surgical alignment, all works like a charm

Try it, don't try it, but sitting there at your pc in an autistic rage about how my mouth is open is ridiculous

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>>39951297
ok how about this anon

Hi

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>>39951304

Why do you guys all aspire to be 12-15% bf

That guy in your pic if he had enough dedication and determination to get to that size lean do you think it would be hard for him to put down the fork and cut for literally two weeks and hit single
digits?

Of course not.

Keep in mind the more fat you have on your body the less muscular you look. Obviously.

No hormone problems at 9-10%, no errectile dysfunction, no nothing.

Search 'NatT' in archives dude is shredded year round and natty

That's how you fucking do it

All he does is cut to very very lean, lean bulk for a month, cut for a month. Simple.

No one is putting a gun to your head and making you bulk for 2 year straight or eat a +1k surplus

>>39950760

Lots of plus size models and athetles (female powerlifting) sit at 35-40% bf. because it's apparently optimal for female health and needed for when they need extra energy to keep them alive.

Anyway, the amount of effort natural, like really really natural girls , go through to maintain a sub 20% bf is ridiculous and basically kills their libido and normal est production.

I think we should push 35-40% bodyfat as being a female fitness ideal

REMINDER

>those skinny girls are sickly and can't even please a man because of their hormone levels

REMIDNER

>they have to do a crazy amount of effort to stay SO skinny

>we look better, real men want curves!

>>39951487
You have a choice.

Walk around at 9%(actual 9% not claimed 9%) as a natural or have a working dick.

>>39951487
i half expected sellstograndpa to make a thread about DHEA to sell shitty roids to natty and yet you take the cake of autism

kys