>he doesn't fast

>>39941379
Faster than you

>>39941379
If you believe that fasting gives any benefit of value then youre stupid. Especially if you lift.

>>39941437
I'll be sure to let multiple research teams know they're wrong.

>>39941437
https://authoritynutrition.com/10-health-benefits-of-intermittent-fasting/
;)

>>39941451
>a low calorie diet has life extension benefits
>wanting to become an ugly old useless man

protip: kys

only on Yom Kippur & Tisha B'Av

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>>39941477
>The body induces important cellular repair processes, such as removing waste material from cells
>implying you'd be an "ugly and useless" old man

>>39941437
>>39941451
did they compare that to caloric deficit? did they compare that to people who exercise?

Do you really think fasting helps building muscle and strength? when coloric surplus and getting enough proteins is crucial for strength and muscle gains.

A tiny, acute spike in some hormones does shit all for anything.

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>>39941477
;)

>>39941437
>>39941477
>>39941494
educate yourselves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk

>>39941503
>Vegan Shit
nice study :)

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>>39941493
>there are people on /fit/ that think humans should live past 60

>>39941494
>A tiny, acute spike in some hormones
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC329619/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1548337
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Pituitary-testicular+axis+in+obese+men+during+short-term+fasting.

>>39941518
kys and be done with it

>>39941516
>cherrypicking

>>39941503
>vegan breakfast
>fermented soybeans and garlic

must be nice to have neither friends nor job to be able to eat that in the morning

>>39941580
*pprrrbbbtttt*

>>39941527

so in response to somebody saying

> these acute transient spikes don't do anything

you respond with 3 citations that say "a spike occurs".

genius.

>>39941602
>spikes
please read the articles.

the best thing about fasting is surely the lack of insulin.

>>39941617
either that or the 180% test increase

>>39941614
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC329619/
> Fast-induced enhancement of GH release is achieved through combined frequency (discrete pulses) and amplitude (sinusoidal periodicities) modulation. Such alterations in somatotropic hormone release may play an important role in substrate homeostasis during starvation.

> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1548337
> In conclusion, the present data suggest that starvation-induced enhancement of GH secretion is mediated by an increased frequency of GHRH release, and longer and more pronounced periods of somatostatin withdrawal.

> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Pituitary-testicular+axis+in+obese+men+during+short-term+fasting.
> Short-term fasting increased the GnRH-elicited LH response by 67% in the non-obese group (LH incremental areas 2147 +/- 304 vs 3581 +/- 256, p less than 0.01), and the corresponding testosterone response by 180% (testosterone incremental areas 111 +/- 61 vs 311 +/- 49 micrograms.l-1.min-1, p less than 0.01)


Niga please stop copying and pasting links off google scholar without reading them, it's annoying. Thanks.

Or at least know what context to use them in.

If somebody says "these transient increases aren't beneficial" it is not an actual counter arguement to provide 3 citations that just confirm "transient increases occur".

Seriously.

>>39941623
Tell me more

>>39941437
have u ever had breakfast u fuckn faggot

>>39941477
Implying you don't eat the same amount of calories but in larger, less frequent meals. Do your research fag.

>>39941634
If you believe those tiny amounts matter you're beyond delusional.

Fasting is a meme and for dyels only

>>39941636

tl;dr temporary increases in testosterone that don't translate to any tangible gains in muscle mass or alterations in mood/cognizance.

this is shit that we went over like 4 years ago during the Berkhan era.

i say this as somebody who has used intermittent fasting for 4-5 years without a break.

the benefits are EXAGGERATED HEAVILY

the only legit hormonal benefit is insulin sensitivity, that's not debatable.

this whole "muh test muh gh muh muh muh" has all been shown to have no benefit years ago.

>>39941655

Thats what I just said you stupid fuck, I was shitting on his meme copypasta citations that he didn't read but just ctrl-v'd into the thread.

Fuck off gook.

>>39941634
You've read them but didn't understand them.

>>39941674
>>39941655
Why are you fags so salty about fasting?

>>39941758
Ignorance and prejudice.

>>39941758

> Make post that disagrees with IF

> hURRURU DURUR R Y U AGREE WITH IF THO?

> Fuck off, retard.

> Why you fags so salty?

>>39941655
>TINY AMOUNTS
BEYOND RETARDED
5000% increase of GH is tiny?
Fucking kek, neck yourself, retard.

>>39941750

You replied to wrong poster, you meant to reply to this guy: >>39941527

Thanks.

>>39941765
>>39941759
Translated: I'm salty because I don't have the self discipline to fast for a prolonged time.
Sour grapes.

>>39941768

Is it within physiological ranges?

Then yes.

Here's an idea sweetheart, go online like a good little girl and look up what's the therapeutic range for supraphysiologic GH doses.

>>39941775
I'm serious, apparently you don't know how the humoral system works, every hormone is released in pulses.
Why you still think you're right without actually knowing anything about the subject we're discussing is beyond me.

>>39941779

Huh? I do 24 hour fasts M-F. I eat 1 meal a day and it's dinner.

I'm just not a fucking retard who gets bamboozled by things like

> INCREASES GH!

> INCREASES TEST!

That means moar muselz!

>>39941792

... ?

So you agree with me? You just echod what I said.

Are you confused?

I said

> Transient spikes aren't meaningful

You reply

> You know how the humoral system works, these pulses are normal.

.. I mean .. I don't ... ?

>>39941768
GH doesnt do SHIT for muscle growth.

Also 180% increase of test doesnt matter when you have ZERO calories or protein to build muscle.
Caloric surpluss and getting enough protein is WAY more anabolic than a 180% test spike without any calories.

>>39941808
Hormones are released in pulses, that doesn't mean you have significant spikes in bloodconcentrations.

>>39941794
>That means moar muselz!
It literally does, yeah.
>>39941811
>GH doesnt do SHIT for muscle growth.
You're a funny lad.
Also, fasting doesn't mean you're at a caloric deficit.

>>39941875

What the fuck are you even talking about, you're not agreeing or disagreeing, you're just stating a fact thats semi-related in the sense it's physiology.

This is like me saying this is my knee, and you respond "but the head is connected to the neck :)".

>>39941890

Hey, post a single study that shows transient physiological increases in testosterone increasing muscle mass.

Note: do NOT post studies that are about hypogonadism getting TRT, or people with clinically depressed testosterone (i.e. sub-physiological).

:).

Good luck.

>>39941914
The guy I replied too probably meant that the increase of the bloodconcentrations of the hormones we're talking about was temporary (they're only spikes durrrr).
All I've been saying (or trying to say) is that that's not the case.

>>39941931
It's a well known fact testosterone increases muscle mass.
The more test you have, the more muscles you can hold onto at a low bf%

>>39941890
HGH increases non-musculare lean bodymass. Not muscle. Sure it may play a role, but not even close to what most people think it does
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/supplementation/growth-hormone-great-expectations/
https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/exercise-induced-testosterone-and-gh-does-not-build-muscle

If exercise induced increase in HGH doesnt build muscle then why should fasting induced HGH build muscle?

And intermediate fasting isnt optimal for muscle growth. If that is what youre refering too.

>>39941959

Yes, supraphysiological testosterone does increase muscle mass sigifnicantly.

That's what bodybuilders take.

Do you understand the difference between supraphysiological doses and physiological?

E.g. if I said endogenous and exogenous would you be confused?

>>39941959
Yes, test incease muscle mass, but within normal ranges there is no data saying it matters, unless youre deficit.
And the relation between test and increase in muscle mass/protein synthesis isnt linear. doubling test levels doesnt double the muscle growth.

>>39941978
I'm studying medical physics at a university senpai.
A 180% increase in test has to have some effects though, it doesn't make sense if there would be no measurable difference in muscle mass when your test level almost triples.

>>39941947

Yeah look, this is such a confused and poorly constructed point I had to re-read it at least 5 times, and even then I only had at best a tenuous grasp of what you're trying to convey.

Ultimately, I'm not going to engage any further.

I honestly can't even determine if you're agreeing, disagreeing, or just throwing non-sequiturs out.

Recommend you enroll in some English classes or something.

God bless.

>>39942013
>180% increase
>almost triple

>>39942013
Not the guy you responded to, but it probably matters less then what you think.

Caloric surpluss and getting enough proteins will do more for msucle and strength.

Also, do you have the study that shows the 180% increase in test?

>>39941996
>within normal ranges
Test levels reference values are 270-1,070 ng/dL for adult men.
There's definitely a chance you'll still be in the normal range after starting fasting if you started off with low test, but there's a bigger chance you'd be above normal values.

>>39942013

Awesome, so you're training to be a radiographer. I don't see the significance.

>>39942037
Does 180% increase mean something different in burgerland or something?
Increasing 100 by 180% yields 280, right?

>>39942055
>implying I can only become a radiographer
Nigga, they teach us alot of shit.
It's a really broad study, I share alot of courses with medicine students.

>>39942075

So do nurses, where are you going with this?

You're an authority almost at the level of M.D. because you took a med sci undergrad?

>>39942049
>Caloric surpluss and getting enough proteins will do more for msucle and strength.
For sure, no question. However, you can do both at the same time.
>Also, do you have the study that shows the 180% increase in test?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Pituitary-testicular+axis+in+obese+men+during+short-term+fasting

>>39942037
..yes

>>39942089
>You're an authority almost at the level of M.D.
Are you saying you are?
You said:
>Do you understand the difference between supraphysiological doses and physiological?

>E.g. if I said endogenous and exogenous would you be confused?

To wich my response was:
>I'm studying medical physics at a university

With that statement I meant to tell you that; yeah, I understand.

>>39942117

Then why do you need it explained to you, here, now, on 4 chan?

Why do you need somebody to explain to you why a physiologic & temporary increase in testosterone ISN'T significant for muscle mass?

Why?

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>>39942141
>temporary
We're back here again?
Really?

>he doesn't slow

>>39942168

Oh boy, are you going to try to de-rail into a semantics argument again daddy. You know how I love them. Or do you genuinely not believe transient increases exist because hormones are """""pulsed""""".

> Well .. GH reaches a peak here 5000% higher than typical .. then goes back to more typical ranges .. I guess you could say it's a transient increase.

> UMM ASHKUALLY .. it's pulsed .. you can't say its transient because hormones are pulsed regularly and so it's different ok.

> Right, but but it never peaks like this again, so it's transient.

> NO ITS DIFFERENTITS PUSLED UFUCKCKUFCKKC

>>39942202
Okay if you're going to be this much of a retard I'm not gonna discuss with you anymore.

>>39941514
There is one thing i dont get, if it requires more than one day for your body to use the fat storage, then why is it ok to do things like intermittent fasting together with low calories diet according to him? Wouldnt that slow down the metabolism?

>>39942256

Could we say this discussion was transient or would you prefer I say it was pulsed?

>>39942091
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Pituitary-testicular+axis+in+obese+men+during+short-term+fasting

It increases test by 180% in OBESE men. Which means it probably doesnt have the same effect in normal or trained individuals.

So i doubt it does anything at all for muscles in normal individuals.

>>39941931
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Citation/2017/01000/Exercise_Induced_Hormone_Elevations_Are_Related_to.6.aspx

>>39941931
>>39944251

BTFO

>>39942934
>It increases test by 180% in OBESE men
The exact opposite actually, learn to read.