What's the argument against a PPL split?

Going to the gym 6 days a week means you dont have a real job

>>39814370
spending a whole day on legs is stupid

>>39814387
Why?
>inb4 some bullshit broscience

>>39814387
>spending a whole day on your largest muscle group is stupid
fuck i took the bait again

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>>39814370

Doing pushing without pulling feels weird and unessisary. Why not just do a push-Pull day and a leg day:

Push/Pull: OHP, Lat Pulldown/Pull-ups, Bench Press, Deadlift

Legs: Front Squats, Low Bar Squats

>>39814481
It's called an upper lower split breh

>>39814481
What's an Upper-Lower split?

>>39814481
When do you work arms?

>>39814511

I know, that's what I'm saying. OP should just do upper/lower and save two days.

I would take it further and say that most people could get by with a two day program:

AxxBxxx

Day A:

Lat Pulldown/Pull-up/Chin-up (your choice)
OHP
Deadlift

Day B:

Squat
Bench Press
Barbell Row

Sets and reps would really depend on goals. My reasoning is that active people have other things to do and should only see weight training as part of those active things (not everything). Office drones don't have time to workout, but two days a week plus dieting is easily doable.

>>39814370
>Easy to build up fatigue and not be able to catch up if you don't gauge your MRV perfectly.
>Most people with jobs don't have the time or will.
>Puts a lot of stress on joints and tendons, fine if you've been lifting for a while, but if you're a beginner you're going to snap shit up.
>You still only hit full body twice a week, no step up from PHUL/PHAT and for most people you can fit all the volume you need in 4 sessions.

>>39814370
You usually do deadlifts on pull day then squats the next day. Or the other way around.

>>39814537

Biceps can be covered by hitting a set of chin-ups after pull-ups.

Triceps are more than covered with Bench and OHP.

Forearms are covered by deadlifts and pull-ups.

Shoulders are covered by all the exerscises.

>>39814578
Just do pull push legs rest

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Why should I do PPL over SS/SL?

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>>39814626
If you value aesthetics over strength

>>39814640
>no nipples. 308.

>>39814640
shouldn't people start with an SS/SL program anyways? It's tough to get aesthetic with out solid strength & muscle. Also with SL at least you can add in assistive exercises to help with things like biceps, core, tris, so you don't accidentally hit minotaur mode

>>39814626
Because if you have to ask you are a noob and SL/SS is a beginner routine designed for you, PPL can be but is nowhere near ideal for that purpose.

>>39814658
and by minotaur I mean centaur, fuck

>>39814370
ass missing

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>>39814698

>>39814706
my ass is 10000x better

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>>39814626

>>39814660
How long do most people stay on SS before switching?

>>39814741
That picture is full of fuck, who gains 24kg of muscle in 5 months? Who the fuck bulks on a 3000kcal surplus as a noob? Picture on the left is 20%bf at least, right is 40%.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149807833
Is coolcicada's ppl a sufficient routine for those who don't mind going to the gym 5-6 days a week?

>>39814550
>doing any of your big 3 on the same day
I can't see how people have the energy for this. For accessories I don't mind, but if I can't go ham on any of my big 3 because I was too busy blowing off my major energy on another big 3, then I'm going to end up getting upset because I can't move the weight I'm supposed to.

Where does core, arms, shoulders, traps, etc. come into play? Don't say squats and DL are for your core either, unless you want to look inherently DYEL.

>>39814771
>Everyone does 5 reps or lower.
>OHP tires you out significantly for deadlifts.
What the fuck are you on about?
>Bench tires you out for bench.
The only way I can see bench tiring you out for squats is if you train fasted or have shit cardiovascular fitness.

I'm a fatass doing PPL on a cut, is it actually "bad" or does it really matter? Like in the long run am I doing myself any real harm if my macros and calories are all in order?

>>39814580
it's advisable to have a lot more volume than that for biceps and triceps tbqh

>>39814481
>unessisary
>that suggest routine with 1 exercise per muscle

whatever the fuck you do lads, don't take advice from this literal retard

>>39814833
What do you mean? Don't listen to the memers, PPL is great. I've been making great gains in my big three + OHP on PPL. It's a solid routine.

As for the cut, it's not bad, especially if you're fat.

>>39814880
That's what I thought. I see people in here saying you'll end up in snap city if you do PPL or why bother going to the gym 6 days a week, but I've been losing weight steadily while still going up on all my lifts.

I can never tell who is memeing and who is being genuine.

>>39814918
you can trust me

>>39814918
PPL is not an ideal beginner routine for a number of reasons, but it's better than nothing.

Not on steroids so I can't do a good ppl routine.
I'm not a noobie that wants to turn into a T-Rex so full body is out of the question.
That's when you realize upper/lower is the one to rule them all.

>>39814741
those are some crazy fucking numbers for 4 months if they are even true. most people lift for years and still don't hit those squat and diddy numbers.

should have stopped earlier before getting fat but he'll look decent once he cuts down.

>>39815526
He still has a low relative strength which is what is most important.

At OPie - look, when starting out it is very hard to overtrain. The biggest problem with a 6-day split is actually going to the gym once you have a job/social life.

>>39814481
PPL is an intermediate routine.
meaning you need some more volume so that you can promote growth after your noob gains.
your thing has even less volume than a fullbody+accessories

>>39814918
If you want to be a disgusting strong fatass do SS, if you want Aesthetics do PPL and but I don't have a day for Legs I'm just doing Squats on Push Day.

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>>39814771

For one, powerlifters usually end up doing the big three all on one day.

Aside from that, my two day routine is set up to prevent fatigue issues.

Verticals pulls do not affect virticle pushes. Pressing gives your grip a break between verticals pulls and deadlifts. Virticle pulls use more lats while deadlifts use more traps and mid back stabilizers (lats are involved, but not to a great extent).

On the second day, I put squat bench in between squat and rows to give the lower back a break. Horizontal presses and pulls don't interfere with each other.

Finally, with it only being a two day a week routine, you have plenty of recovery even if your diet and sleep are terrible.

>>39814640
meme

>>39817067

I would argue that increasing frequency will hurt recovery. It would be better to just have a volume day.

>>39814381

I worked 60-80 hours a week from March until October this year and I trained 6 times a week. Granted i get better sleep and recovery now I am down to 39 hours and having holidays over xmas but still. Man up. You can train frequently and intensely with a proper job for sure. You just may have to sacrifice other things like vidya etc

>>39814796
>OHP
>big 3
Opinion instantly disregarded.

>>39817131
well you should be intermediate when starting a PPL so increased frequency should not be an issue.
I personally wouldnt do it because I dont have the time to go 6 or 5 times a week to the gym.
I especially wouldnt recommend it for a beginner
I'm starting phul next week

>>39814872

>you need to burn out the muscles!
>multiple exercises per day!

It's frequency that helps you get bigger and stronger as a natty, not doing a fuck ton of volume one-two days per week.

t. 4 day full body master race

I find that 4 days is enough. You don't need 6 to get in 2x a week of all main lifts.

>>39814578
Pull push legs numnutz

>>39814381
You dont "need" to lift 6 days a week on PPL. You can vary between 3-6 days/week.

>>39817125
No.

>>39815544
>he'll look decent once he cuts down.

no.

he gained 120lbs in 4 months

he will be the king of extra skin

>>39817164
PHUL was really good but I ended up always wanting to do more than I could on the upper Hypertrophy day, so I switched to ULxPPLx. Keep it in mind as an option.

Trying to do a high volume of upper body work all on one day is taxing as fuck.

>>39814764
Newfag, go do some holiday asignments

>>39817177
The low volume (per session)
high frequency doesn't always work as you think it will.

I've done it and lost gains even when bulking. (Lost muscle and gained fat).


PPL always for a perfect balance of volume and frequency that you just don't get on a bro-split or full-body.

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>>39814741
ayy lmao

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>>39814537
i have never done isolated arm exercises and my arms look like this

i only use barbell and chinup bar

What about Push+Legs/Pull+LegsxPush+Legs/Pull+Legsx?
A:
Bench
Deadlift
Bench Acessories
B:
Row
Squat
Row Acessories
C:
Bench
Deadlift
Squat Acessories
D:
Row
Squat
Deadlift Acessories

>>39819618
fatty

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>>39819618
>i have never done isolated arm exercises and my arms look like this
arms look like shit; what point are you trying to prove?

>>39817392
pull push legs pull
so squat then dl back to back

>>39819618
some curls and skullcrushers won't hurt you

PPL is the official neckbeard beginner routine. Probably right up your alley OP.
>I have no hobbies or interests besides video games and 4chan so 6 days a week at the gym is the strict minimum
>I'm really insecure in all aspects of life so I only care about hypertrophy but I think I'm too smart for a body part split
>it gives me room to incorporate the billions of assistance exercises I religiously watch on fitness youtube channels several hours a day. T-bar rows anyone?
>I obsess over needlessly complex workouts but completely neglect my diet so I think this kind of volume will help with my shitty progress when I should just suck it up and eat at a fucking surplus

why do people hate PPL so much here?

>>39814550
The point of ppl is to organize your lifts in such a way that your can put in as much work as possible without interfering with your other muscle groups. Not so you can do as little work as possible. It's for people that like lifting and want to excel. Not lazy faggots.

>>39814580
You look like shit and your lifts are shit.

>>39820251
that's pretty funny because i thought SS was the neckbeard routine. i remember years ago, probably long before you ever discovered 4chan, PPL was the go to. and years before that PPL was shit on.

go ahead and take your rant to any physical hobby community. tell all those athletes and hobbyists they are losers. you'd get banned pretty quick for shitposting. but it's nice being anon isn't. gives you lots of courage to talk shit.

>>39817972

When you say low volume, how low do you mean? Obviously there's a point where it'll be too low, but 20-25 challenging sets (RPE 7.5+) for one muscle group spaced out over 3-4 lifting sessions in a week is going to be more beneficial than that same number in 1-2 lifting sessions.

>>39820251

>6 days a week
>all about accessories and hypertrophy
>complex

Top kek

One of the most old school, basic training routines was called these things.

This can serve as a daily reminder that most people on here are planet fitness tier lifters.

>>39817144
picking your arsehole isnt working, faggot, even if it is 60 hours of it

Literally every answer in this thread is shit. How much of a fucking pansy do you have to be do not get your ass to the gym 6 times a week.

The problem with PPL is it's extremely taxing on the rear delts and lower traps. These 2 upper back muscles are used in almost every compound movement, if you are doing them correctly. You can end up badly overtraining these muscles doing them 6 days a week.

Deadlift and cleans are also hard to schedule, is it a pull or legs?

I do a PPL, and it's certainly done me well. But if lower traps or rear delts are a weakness then it's probably not for you. I'm thinking of switching to a push/pull routine where push is push+squats and pull is pull+deads/cleans to get some more rest for my upper back.

>>39820437
finally

>>39814370
a day for legs is simply not necessary, better to run Upper/Lower if you ask me.

>>39814640
MELTING NIPPLES GOLEM GET YE GONE

>>39814713
It is, hon.

>>39814370
You often cannot handle the sick gains, also you get severely spoiled by the mires.

>>39814741
I know this is not real, but a 6pl8 Dl after 4 months of training would be pretty impressive actually.

>>39820251
Just described SS

>>39814741
Bench 135? Summarizes the whole fucking problem.

Overwork lowerbody (which no one cares about) and do nothing to upperbody. Result is the worst looking body possible

>>39814796
DO you wanna know how I know you look like shit and have shitty numbers?

>>39817144

why would you want to lift six days a week if you're working 60-80 hours a week? don't you want any time to spend with others or to invest in your hobbies? there's more to life than lifting things in spite of what those motivational pictures say

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>>39820251
>tfw my dad got me on PPL

>mfw an army veteran who used to bodybuild for fun is a neckbeard

>>39820965
Find ONE aspect of what I said, without twisting my words, that applies to SS.

>>39821391
Just because it's the ideal program for neckbeards doesn't mean only sheltered white 4chan nerds can do it.
Obviously it's also fit for the casual lifter crowd who enjoy doing as many obscure exercises as possible and "bodybuilding for fun"

>>39820251
>T bar row
>assistance
well memed

I like liftin 6 days a week. If I miss a gym day I start getting all fucked up in my head, keeps me stable.

But I'm considering doing what
>>39820437 said and just turning the other days into cardio days

>>39815499
What if you're an intermediate?

>>39819618
yeah no shit your arms look like garbage. No one at my gym who does PPL has good arms.

>>39821774
You can add more volume to your arms and be completely fine. It's not that serious

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Whats a good routine for 4 days a week? Push/Pull with legs worked in or Upper/Lower. Focused mostly on upper body aesthetics desu

So you DO PPL you are only hitting major muscle groups twice a week.

You do full body 3-4 times a week you get 1-2 more days of growth.

The majority of people that promote 6 times a week are on the juice. Studies have shown you put people who dont even LIFT on juice they gain muscle. The more gear you are on the less it matters what you do.

Will PPL work? Yes. Is it optimal? No.

>>39822155
Personally more a fan of Upper/Lower because you can do both Deadlifts and Squats. With Push/Pull it is gonna be hard to do that because you cant really fit them in well together. Deadlifts are not a must but I like them so I would do Upper/Lower.

On the other hand Push/Pull has relatively speaking more volume for the upper body so for you personal goal it might be more suited. So I would say for you it would probably be best to do Push/Pull depending on how strong you are you could do something like

Mo: Heavy Push
Tu: Light Pull
We: -
Th: Light Push
Fri Heavy Pull
Sa: -
Su: -

If you do it like this you can even include both Deadlifts (Heavy Pull) and Squats (Heavy Push) and just do something different on the lighter days like Legpress or Stifflegged Deadlifts with higher repranges.