How should healthcare be handled in society?

Through the government with basic healthcare guaranteed for everyone in society.

The Swiss model is obviously superior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

>There are no free state-provided health services, but private health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country)
>The whole healthcare system is geared toward the general goals of keeping the system competitive across cantonal lines, promoting general public health and reducing costs while encouraging individual responsibility.
>Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans
>The insured person pays the insurance premium for the basic plan up to 8% of their personal income. If a premium is higher than this, the government gives the insured person a cash subsidy to pay for any additional premium.

This is more or less what Trump has proposed for Murrica' aswell.

Government provided healthcare for everyone. HOWEVER, stipulations need to be included for fatties, smokers, alcoholics, etc. so they can't be a drain on the system by slowly killing themselves

>>39807455
This is probably honestly the best way to handle it.

There's no other way to manage the fact that young people don't need it but the elderly and infirm need/want the costs offset.

You can't insure only sick people, you go bankrupt.

completely private with some goverment funded aid cards for the poorest if there is any extra tax money


Completely goverment funded healthcare NEVER works good, eats up to of 50% of budget, increases taxes and brings nothing in return.
I personally pay more in taxes than I use in healthcare and I
DONT GIVE A FUCK
about fatsies or oldies that cant cover their medical bills. Should have lose weight, or should have get a private retirement + healthcare insurance.

>>39807455
Good in theory, but doesn't work.
t. gov health care haver, can't even get a prescription for a flu shot

>>39807418
What does this have to do with picking shit up and down again?

Go to /pol/ if you want to talk about healthcare

>>39807477
>This is more or less what Trump has proposed for Murrica' aswell.
lies

>>39807556
>Completely goverment funded healthcare NEVER works good

Lol.

>>39807418

Independent healthcare.

As a single straight healthy male why should I pay for smokers, fat fucks, women and aids infested faggots.

American healthcare was cheaper, better quality and gave more consumer choice pre-1965 and medicare. As with everything else it touches, socialism ruined healthcare for the vast majority of responsible citizens in order to cover the costs for the minority of reckless and irresponsible citizens.

>>39807418
nothing for people who choose to fuck up their health e.g. obese adults, smokers, drug addicts, etc.
universal healthcare for everyone else.

>>39807455
Sorry bud but socialism doesn't work

>>39807418
This board used to be /heath & fitness/

You can guess why the name is different

>>39807811
Yeah my granddad always talks about how in 1949 he could go to his doc and get an MRI for a nickle same day.

Insurance companies should be able to bully the shit out of you if you're living an unhealthy lifestyle.

>smoker? bullied
>overweight? bullied
>alcoholic? bullied
>obese? superbullied

>>39807515

>just pay for everyone else

not really selling this idea to me well senpai

>>39808183
With wearable fitness trackers this might be the future.
>Oh hey John looks like you haven't met your daily steps total!
>Your rate will now be adjusted accordingly!

>>39808183
Do you mean charge more? Because the ACA doesn't allow for that...
What if like, they hired a full-time bully to like knock sweets out of their hands, or unplug the rascal?

>>39807418
If the government is involved in healthcare, you should not get access to it unless you are
>Of a normal BMI
>Do not smoke
>Drink moderately
And if you do not meet these criteria, you will be asked to change until you meet these requirements

>>39807455
>I'm 12 and what is politics

>>39807477
Based, though I doubt Trump will do this well with healthcare

>>39808183
That's a dangerous Road...
Next they'll be tracking what u eat
'all that Red meat isn't that healthy sir'
U can't give them that power cus they'll cheat u everything they can

Set a universal height-weight standard for expected healthy living then raise prices for those living unhealthy lifestyles. Allow private insurance companies to compete against raised health standards (obesity, alcoholism, smoker) to set market.

>>39808285
>tell insurance adjuster about GOMAD
>rates double overnight

Yeah let's raise taxes for everybody living unhealty
Lifting weights is sure to increase the rate because all of the idiots fucking up their back

JUST LOOK AT FUCKING VENEZUALA

>>39808261
>Of a normal BMI

that's most weightlifters without healthcare then

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>>39807455
>>39807482
>>39807831
>>39808261
>>39808296
Hey statist kids, read this >>39808285

Stop giving the government the power to take our money and determine who gets some of it back when the solution is to massively reduce their role in healthcare.

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>>39807455

In theory nice, but in practice government medicine is terrible.

Veterans in the USA get some of the worst health care around.

Do you honestly think civilians who haven't risked their life for their country with get better?

The VA system would be better if the government just got rid of the VA hospitals all together, perhaps left a few PTSD and other veteran specific clinics in place, but for everything else just issue insurance cards that cover private care, and even they they better not micromanage what kind of care veterans can receive.

For example, TRT, older veterans are required to travel to the VA clinics for their injection, not allowed to do it at home. They get 100mg every two weeks, regardless if it is enough to put them in the normal range. If they get a prescription for Viagra (and VA wont cover cialis) you only get at MAX 4 pills a month.

So, I know veterans who literally come into my gym, talk to an befriend big roided up bodybuilders who home brew, and literally are buying Testosterone cyp or enanthate from them, NOT because the veterans want to get huuuge, but because they are over 40, need TRT and for them 100$ bucks buys almost a year long supply. They might buy a 20ml vial with 5grams of test. At 100mg a week that last almost a year. They ussually buy 2 at a time, and they can take 150mg a week, feel fantastic and it last over a year. Work that out month to month, and that's a bit lower than the co-pay for a lot of private insurances.

Do I think its good that veterans are resorting to this? Fuck no

The point is that the over regulation of medications if what happens in the VA, where burocrats decide the doses and option the doctors have. Its a top down system, with idiocy at every level, and people more interested in covering their own ass with policy than helping patients - who they often treat like shit, because unlike private medicine, they don't have any competition.

Think eryone else would get better treatment?

>>39808346

Eh, I used to be a Libertarian. Government's role is to protect it's citizens and provide well-being. Military (less interventionism), education, infrastructure, and healthcare should be primary focus.

Responsible government > less government role

All of you people complaining definitely don't understand what it's like for people like OP and me. I pay 166/month for "catastrophic" coverage which has a 6500 deductible. I basically don't have health insurance except in the case I'm about to die, and I pay 166 a month for that. Ain't no one got time for that kind of shit.

>>39808379
The US government stepping into healthcare is what fucked it up. Read what >>39808350 said: it's impossible for more government involvement to fix the situation

Healthcare should be a luxury. If we didn't have millions of jobless slobs with their fucking hands out maybe it wouldn't cost so much for productive people relative to their income. Or, you know, maybe if these fucking freeloaders got jobs they could get healthcare through their employer like a normal human being. If I had it my way every benefit and every program would be cut off tomorrow and all of you fucking people would die in the streets.

If someone else has to provide something for you, it can't be a "right" without morally justifying slavery.

>inb4 hurr durr muh libertarianism

What if not enough people want to be doctors? Do we force people to become doctors? Welcome to Communist Russia where the government decides what career you get.

Should be government provided basic healthcare with privatized system on top of it, like legal services.

Communities should have public gyms free of charge like libraries.

There should be government run grocery stores to combat food deserts. Food stamps should not apply to junk food.

Nutrition should be taught in schools. Home EC should be mandatory to teach people to cook, budget, and take basic care of themselves.

There should be tax incentives for meeting certain health goals.

>>39808438
Healthcare is ridiculously expensive even for the middle class. I'm not poor but I haven't been to the doctor for what may be a major problem in months because my health insurance sucks and my deductible is sky high.

>>39807418
no more foodstamps for fat people. no more welfare in general for fat people. clearly when theyre fat they have too much, not too little

>>39808733

If not enough people want to do anything under the free market, then guess what?

The pay for whatever job goes up, and suddenly more people want to do it.

That is the basics behind Austrian economics.

That doesn't mean goverment has no roles to play at all, you don't want pirate capitalism either, but you want the least intervention possible, and the maximum freedom of choice.

There also is an element of personal responsibility too, if someone wants to abuse their body, do we all need to pay to keep them healthy?

Do I need to pay for the fucker who smokes a pack a day, eats like shit, and drinks like a fish?

Oh, shit, now he needs a leg removed from Betus, and his fucking 5 horse scooter to drive around Wal-Martagishu while buying more excess calories and insulin. - but I get to pay his 100,000s of medical bills?

Well of couse idiocy like that will skyrocket medicin, not to mention Mass Immigration of parasitical groups where far < than 50% work or contribute - but have no problem parasiting off such systems and having 6 kids per family.

Then libtards wonder why the cost of Obongo care skyrockets...

socialized healthcare is awful


liberal fags btfo by facts

>>39807418
Deregulate health insurance to drive down costs. Then tie universal health into the economy by having creating a fund for all American taxpayers and their dependants based on stock bundles built around American companies. The more successful we are as an economy, the more returns we see on our stock portfolio and the more funds we have to give people based on their tax stock portfolio. This encourages everyone to pitch in. We then turn around and say to the companies that we will give the returns/dividends on the stocks to the companies which offer the cheapest options with the best coverages for the people.
People are still encouraged to buy additional healthcare to cover nonbasic needs like cosmetic surgeries if they want to, but there is no requirement to do so.

The only way this is going to work is if we set it up around some type of growing asset for the people that ensures we can continue coverage into the future instead of creating a bubble where we end up with a growing bunch of old people to support that won't die.

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To be really honest watching Americans discuss shit like this is grade A entertainment

American Healthcare system is retarded and basically a great example of a totally failed market.

Universal Healthcare works in countries with a political culture which has a strong operational civil service and Healthcare services are not a partisan issue.

America's biggest problem is their political climate and retarded socialism for big business ideals which means anything they do fucks over regular people to aid the super rich.

>>39808914
I like this.

>>39808927
Where do you live? What is your healthcare like?

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>not having free healthcare

>>39808950
The Netherlands. It's supposed to be the best in Europe although it's far from flawless of course. But if I'm to believe the stories I hear about American healthcare we're not doing that bad (although your hospitals are better quality wise)

>>39808927
>he doesn't live in the most prosperous and powerful nation that has ever existed

your opinion really doesn't matter, sorry dude

>>39807836
>>39808346
>heavily implying that basic universal healthcare is a bad thing and that we should kick people out on their ass if they can't afford to provide for themselves
if you're both american i'm laughing, i'm in australia and medicare is great. you wouldn't know jack shit about how fantastic single-payer healthcare is here; our taxes aren't bad at all and we get great healthcare and bulk-billing. we're not the faggots paying 700$ to get asthma sorted out
the hospitals in the US charge you for fucking everything, it's probably the worst healthcare system in the first world

>>39809033
Someone's drinking the American kool aid.

Good luck dying in the street because you're afraid of your deductible.

>>39809046
I buy private healthcare because I have disposable income

>>39809033
>prosperous
for everyone? that's working out great
>powerful
the world police maybe

sure opinions don't matter but dying because of how unaffordable your complete shitshow of a healthcare system is does.

>>39809039
>cut finger using a mandolin slicer for the first time
>bloodeverywhere.jpg
>text photo to sister as a gross out joke
>little sister tells mom who calls me and insists i go to doctor
>holiday so i go to a 24 hour clinic
>asks if they take my insurance, they say yes
>see doctor, turns out i cut the skin clear off so there's nothing to stitch together and there's nothing they can do besides wash it and put a bandaid on it
>takes 5 minutes total
>turns out clinic doesn't accept my insurance
>get a bill for $800 a month later
>for a bandaid
>$800 for a bandaid
>$800 for a BANDAID
>$800 FOR A BANDAID

Fat people should not recieve any medical benefits.

Healthcare and pretty much any public services is fucking theft.

Give money to hard working companies, not abusive fucking burrocrat pieces of shit

>>39807477
The swiss model is a fucking robbery and something like health care should be total responsibility from government.

> Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition.
You HAVE to pay for one, regardless if you need it or not. If you are older, get sick many times or smoke, you pay MORE.

>They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance.
LIES. The Insures are constantly changing the prices for the sake of they own existence. They need profit to assure themselves.

> If a premium is higher than this, the government gives the insured person a cash subsidy to pay for any additional premium.
No one knows this shit. I only knew this way too late and now I can sign myself for the fucking year 2018!

At least you know that the health care works and that you won't die because you have no money, but the privacy is a waste of resources and money.
We have a accident insurance for most workers that works wonderful and is very cheap, because there is no competition.

>>39809058
oh man I can feel the jelly oozing through the screen

Obamacare has been a disaster but we'll be fixing that within the first few months of 2017

>>39809114
shut the fuck up bernie cuck

>>39809075
thankyou anon
you cannot deny this shit
everyone fucking saying 'oh well it's leftwing/socialist/uses my tax therefore it won't work' has not endured what most of middle and lower class america has
my story is taking a friend to hospital for a pretty tight chest for asthma, got him some ventolin and he got the bill a week later for 700
it took two months to slap the hospital up enough to make them send a detailed invoice since the original had zero specifics
they chaged for everything. from the washing of the sheets he sat on to the sterilising of the equpiment used and even the motherfucking plastic cups used to drink water from.
it is the most jewish system in america.

>>39808945

Universal healthcare "works" when you are a 90% white population that can handle a crappy socialized medicine system without completely falling apart

>>39809123
see
>>39809121

>>39809115
australia is great
i'll move out in a couple years but i'm not risking my life in america unless i stumble upon wealth
also the PPACA is a good thing >:(

>>39809128
zero
argument

>>39808843
Maybe if you weren't subsidizing millions of leeches you would have enough money in your paycheck to go to the doctor.

>>39809075
>>39809123

That's when you call the hospital and let them know you can't and won't pay that bill. They literally can't do shit about it and have one of two options, give you a cheaper bill, or sell the debt for pennies on the dollar to a debt collector who has no power to do anything meaningful other than lower your credit score.

You people claim to be experts on the inadequacies of the american healthcare system and you probably don't even know that american hospitals aren't even allowed to deny someone acute aid because you don't know if you can pay for it. The only healthcare that a person could end up not being able to get at all before obamacare was for chronic diseases, IE, being fat or metastatic cancer, the first of which you should have been more responsible, and the latter of which you're already fucking dead.

>>39808843

>Healthcare is ridiculously expensive even for the middle class.

Yeah because of Obamacare

>>39809199
Not just obamacare, youngun'

It was expensive before then. Then republicans blocked a lot of what obamacare tried to do.

>>39809123

>recognize hospital is the problem
>decide to hide it by letting the public pay

That ain't fixing shit. Hospitals should be bend over instead of just accepting 800$ for 20min to be acceptable.

To give you an example how crazy it is: It costs me 40€ to get premium private patient treatment in germany for the same shit. Your problem ain't universal healthcare but accepting those costs. If you get universal insurance you will still pay for the overpriced bullshit just more well hidden over the course of years of insurance payments.

>>39807418
Socialised if it's a white country.
Privatised if it's not.

>>39809210

It was very affordable before then. Half as expensive for many middle class families.

>Then republicans blocked a lot of what obamacare tried to do.

The ACA passed without a single republican vote, could have been anything he wanted.

>>39809221

The hospital never actually gets that 800 dollar bill you fucking idiot. It's there as a bargaining measuring stick for dealing with the insurance companies. It's not intended for an uninsured patient to pay out of pocket. They know the patient will just walk away from it and so they write it off as a loss on their taxes, or, if the actual value of the treatment was substantial, they will send you a much more reasonable bill.

>>39807477
you do realize that this is exactly what obamacare is right

>>39809210
Obamacare was a tax cuckboi. Anything to the contrary is wishful thinking at best. Subsidized healthcare, not this ridiculous scam tier nonsense in the insurance industry, is the proven method for increasing your citizens access to necessary medical treatment.

>>39809221
This guy, and all but one of 133 industrialized countries, get it.

I'm a retard who doesn't know anything, but it seems like there's a systemic problem that boils down to how much everything cost. It doesn't really matter if private citizens, insurance companies, or the government pays for it. The issue is getting healthcare costs down to something reasonable.

>>39809335
The cost is arbitrarily inflated because muh free market(for reference, compare the cost of literally anything vaguely medical related in the States compared with literally any other industrialized country), if people are willing to pay more for like saving medicine and treatment then they should have to pay more xDDDDDDD. There is so much the republicans get right, but we are objectively shit in our healthcare system because it is a profit center for so many organizations and even our democrats are bought and paid for to the extent that when they do "change" the system all they do is add a tax and mandate participation in the insurance maymay.

>>39809281
"not intended" is a shitty excuse for running retarded pricing. Not everyone get's away for free and letting some go just means others have to pay more which comes back to bite you. The system is simply shit.

>>39807418
>tax breaks for citizens below a set BF% *not* BMI
>tax breaks for those who don't utilize their health care over a certain amount

>>39809281
Wrong. If you don't have insurance you get the same bill for an identical service that an insurance company does. The second a hospital charges two different people a different price for the same service, with no further preamble, they are getting legally shit on by everyone.

>>39809384

>I was too much of a retard to even think to call the hospital and ask about the bill, the whole system is broken!

>>39807582
you don't need a prescription for this, its free at most local pharmacies.

>>39809404

>Wrong. If you don't have insurance you get the same bill for an identical service that an insurance company does.

Yep, and then you either just don't fucking pay it, and suffer nothing more than a hit to your credit, or call them and let them know you can't pay the bill, so they send you a newer much cheaper one.

>The second a hospital charges two different people a different price for the same service, with no further preamble, they are getting legally shit on by everyone.

They do it all the time, it's a non-issue as long as you have standardized initial prices

>>39809426

If everyone can do it where do the people come from that claim financial ruin due to hospital bills?

>>39809192
how is that a good system.

>>39808914

Will not work along side Mass 3rd world Immigration.

This could work in a homogenous White country (if any still existed), or some East Asian countries.

>>39809454

The movies, mostly. Or uninsured people on facebook who have a car crash and then get a huge bill and go on a social media tirade before they find out what options they actually have

>>39809506

Because it means people with chronic shitty lifestyle disease wouldn't be covered by public money

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>Angry burgers: the thread

>>39809569
This. Some legit stuff on both sides here, but swarms of illegals will break any systems infrastructure.

>>39809569
It would work. Just vet the immigrants and slow the overall rate at which they flow in such that it is slower than the rate at which our economy grows. Immigrants with prior work experience and education can skip the line and join the workforce immediately because they will increase economic growth rate.

>>39809021
>Free

>>39808232
As long as you're not forced to have health insurance like they force you to have car insurance, I'm fine.

Some things you can take care of yourself.

>2 weeks ago
>homegym, lifting at night before dinner
>almost finished, decide to do some curls to keep my elbows pain free (long story)
>get bar, put a 25 on each side, put on the rests
>go to get collars, nick bar with body as I come back. don't really think anything of it
>tighten collar on left side. right hand on bar near center, left on collar.
>switch hands, pickup other collar
>bar rolls off ohh shit ohh shit
>before I can move plate has smacked into hand
>haha it hit right at the grip. I grab on despite the pain
>somehow manage to push bar so it's now on end, but in doing so i lose balance and have plate smack hand a second time when it hits the floor
>doesn't look bad, I can bend it, it'll just be a bit swollen tomorrow
>that night , wake up in worse pain than after any surgery, drain hemotoma, feels partly broken
>tape the bitch. tomorrow's deadlift day
>do deadlift with middle finger out. fuck you bar, and fuck you 25lb plate

If I'd seen bone, that's a different story

>>39810067

Thats why you ask for some form of identification.

The thing is that in the United States, you have a perfect storm of bullshit hitting the taxpayer from multiple directions. First, you're not allowed to get prescription medicine across borders simply because they want to protect pharma companies (Medicare plan D, written to law by Billy Tauzin), effectively giving them monopolies, since even generics are slowed to a crawl in terms of getting shit approved by the FDA.

Second, Hospitals hire huge groups of Accountants, Specialists, Technoloigists, and charge you for EVERYTHING. Don't need an MRI? Tough shit, you're getting one anyway. X ray not necessary to examine something obvious? They're doing it anyway. It also doesn't help that they are very much corporations, and not a lot of competition. They buy smaller cheaper hospitals and are allowed to grow unchecked. They also have a massive legal staff that does more than just keep lawsuits against them in check. They lobby government officials to keep rules in their favor.

Third, Doctors are artificially kept in relative low supply so their prices are sky high. You have to go through a lot of hoops to be able to even be allowed to wear scrubs. Also, not all doctors are willing to do a certain job. Surgeons in particular cannot all do the same tasks despite sharing the same title (IE neurosurgeons).

You also have Insurance companies with little competition cherrypicking their customers, limiting choice via their network, and lobbying.

As far as I see, in order to get some kind of working system, these issues must be addressed first and foremost. I don't see this issue being addressed any time soon, not while the current congress is in place.

>>39809115

I've already got a letter from my insurer
Anyone with an Obamacare plan with have it cancelled at repeal
Luckily, I switched plans and bought the new one without the marketplace, so I'm safe

I'll guarantee that even if there are state laws disallowing such tactics, the repeal bill will provide indemnity for that. Add to that that the "replacement", if there ever is one, won't hit until 2019. Given the gap in time between ACA passage & the marketplace start, I'd say there's going to be about 6-8 years of whining about the repeal the majority asked for

>>39810097
>muh economy

>>39809304

The Trumpist critique of Obamacare is that it's a poorly-executed mechanically-flawed failure, not categorical, morally-indignant condemnation of its basic premise. Repeal and REPLACE, not laissez faire.

>>39810438

Guess it really is true that you gotta be tough if you're gonna be dumb

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>>39810552
>muh universal ever expandong healthcare can exist for all without any type of ever expanding economic support
What I posted was the answer that fits a reasonable middle ground with moderate politics. People just don't want to accept it.

>>39811267
How are you supposed to pay for healthcare when you're dead because jamal and habid decided that today is chimp day

the only acceptable form of immigration is from other european/NA nations desu

>>39809114
accident insurance wouldn't be wonderful and cheap because there isn't competition. Competition is what makes things cheap and more effective.

>>39807418
I like Spain's model.
Literally anyone gets public healthcare. Sure, it might take longer than private centers to schedule a non-life threatening surgery, and it can get a bit crowded. But I can assure you, I haven't met a single spaniard that felt unprotected if something were to happen. If you make enough money you can just get a private plan and get all the benefits it has (Less crowded hospitals, easier appointment system...) but there is no real need for it.

Let me remind you, Spain is one of the worst economies in the EU and the civilized world and we have the biggest corruptions scandals you can imagine in a first world country. And yet, we have an awesome healthcare system paid by our taxes. People that are making 800$ a month working 40 hours a week have better access to healthcare than many americans.

People can always say that they prefer to choose where to spend their money and which healthcare they want to get. But the truth is that, like the police, the school system and other services provided by every government, healthcare is one of those things you can't leave to private companies exclusively, mostly because at some point the will refuse it to people that don't meet their standards because they are a business, not a public service.

I don't care what it is, if you have a thing, and you want that thing to be cheaper and/or more accessible, putting the government in charge of it is always the wrong answer.

>>39811349
What do you mean? We are using perpetuities and stock investment to pay for the healthcare for taxpayers who pay in. I really don't see where you're getting this "chimp out" idea from. It's basically going to boil down to taxpayers getting coverage for paying their taxes into a system designed to grow. Nontaxpayers can receive care but they get jailed immediately after showing up. They earn their coverage doing prison labor which is taxed and thrown into the stock and perpetuity fund.

>>39808350
Ask anyone working in pharmacy, those with Tricare have it easy. They are also the worst customers, non-officers acting as if they are war heroes, demanding extra attention and care.

>>39811515
I've never met anyone with tricare who does that. People with tricare and from military fanmilies are usually the most humble people I meet. The assholes are usually the ones with cutrate insurance who seem to want to get in and out before someone behind the counter questions their coverage.

>>39809281
Well that's a dumb system then. No wonder our insurance costs so much if they're accepting that a 5 minute thing costs $800.

I once got drunk and got into a text argument with an ex where I drunkenly said I was going to kill myself because I was being an emo faggot. She called the police, I got arrested and thrown into a mental hospital. I was able to talk my way out once I sobered up, but I was still there for a night.

I wound up getting tons of bills with nothing itemized from multiple locations. When I tried calling places to sort things out, I was passed around until I hit a dead end. I tried multiple times to sort it out.

The bills wound up totaling over $4000. I paid it all and I'm still hurting financially from it 3 years later just because I got drunk and acted like a dramatic tard for a moment.

>>39807455
>wanting to subsidize decades of healthcare costs for a bunch of unhealthy obese fucks
no thanks

>>39811689
Damn son. I'd say you deserved some short of reprimend for wasting resources. But not 4000$ for a night in a mental hospital.

>"health care" keeping fat fucks like this alive

CALORIE THIEVIN

>>39811768
They probably had to charge him that much though because mental hospitals don't get consistent business from any paying patrons, so they get little cash flow with the exception of government funding. However they still have to be able to subsidize their workers who tend to the mentally ill. So they send a fat ass bill to anyone coherent enough to read it because it's meant to cover their legitimate cost of doing business with everyone instead of just you.

how has boogie lost lost his legs yet?

how much junk does he force feed himself to sustain that mass?

>>39811423
Same thing here in Bosnia, a few years ago i had my elbow smashed in an accident. Surgery, time spent recovering in the hospital, physical therapy afterwards and another surgery a year after to remove the bolts from the bones didnt cost me more than 50 bucks. Sure everything else is shitty, but at least we have some decent and cheap healthcare compared to usa

>>39811783
It's because people can sue for the smallest shit.
I'm a pharmacist in WV and I can be sued by drug abusers for denying their pain medication for whatever reason, it's too soon to fill, the directions are unclear, the prescription looks fake/altered...AND I can be sued for dispensing the medication and the addict OD's by taking it not how it was written.

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>all these posters that unironically think that universal healthcare isn't the best choice

No wonder the rest of the world thinks we're uneducated stupid fucks.

>b...b...but muh free market creates competition and low rates

Fucking Cuba has a better healthcare system than the US, and it's been largely a communist regime.

Glad to see that most of /fit/ supports single-payer healthcare.

To address more than just how we pay for it, we need a healthcare system that is more focused on preventative medicine like in Cuba. Cuba and America have the same life-expectancy rates, but Cuba spends about 1/10th of the money per person per year because they encourage people to be healthy rather than just saying fuck it, we'll do whatever procedures we need as problems arise.

I also heard that in Australia and some other countries, health insurance includes things like a free pair of running shoes each year. That's kind of cool.

>>39812017
>"universal healthcare"
That just means everyone can get healthcare, it doesn't say anything about how we fund it. Could be due to compulsory insurance laws or because everyone just decides to buy insurance or whatever. The term you're looking for is single-payer healthcare. Or as Sandman has popularized it, "Medicare for all." Might also be called a National Health Service/Program or whatever.

But yeah if you think we should commodify healthcare for muh competition, kill yourself.

>>39809021
>saving makeagif.com gifs off of reddit and posting them on a lebanese canoodling discussion forum

>>39812210

Fair point, I should've been more clear. Single-payer is what I meant.

>>39807418
people seem to forget that insurance companies would not insure people with preexisting conditions and that the only way to curtail that was to make enrollment mandatory. if you don't want it, boohoo. you pay an extremely modest fee. it all goes to the same place and gives very real help to very real people.

btw, preexisting conditions isn't slang for diabetes, there are plenty of ailments that insurers straight up don't want to pay for.

i'm a physical therapist, and i get as mad as anyone at people who cheat the system. but nobody actually fucking understands how insurance works, and they think that parroting talking points from CNN and fox make them informed. why don't you "do" healthcare and get back to me.

>>39810649

Also, I lose my job if I'm out for more than 2 days from non-job injury. And I know a hand injury would be an automatic 2 week from the doc.

Flipside of a R controlled government is you got to supplement with that bag of quikset concrete, because someone else is waiting for your job

>>39812323

>people seem to forget that insurance companies would not insure people with preexisting conditions and that the only way to curtail that was to make enrollment mandatory.

Nobody "forgets", we just don't care. Insurance companies should be able to deny you for your poor life choices.

>btw, preexisting conditions isn't slang for diabetes

Yes it is. That and NAFLD, obesity, COPD, and other shit you did to yourself.

>>39812645

pre-existing condition was slang for the hernia that a former job caused due to mislabeling everything,a be acting like punching someone in the kidneys when they were carrying something was the GOAT laugh

if you don't get it taken care of the minute the injury occurs or has ongoing results, it's a PEC. Sports injuries, cancer, dysfunction due to disease/infection, whatever. So, everything

>>39812700

A health insurance company wouldn't deny you based on having an injury unless it were like, a quadriplegia inducing spinal injury. They can still get back to black as long as you are going to get better. Even cancer patients, as long as you were diagnosed metastatic, in which case you were already dead.

>>39808183
State-sponsored bullying could solve a lot of society's problems tbqh

>>39811768
I definitely deserved for my ex to never speak to me again (she still does though). I ain't mad at her though, I'm not usually dramatic like that, which is why she got scared enough to call the police.

>>39811800
Probably man. There were so many people in there that had been in there for months and were obviously uneducated and poor as fuck. It was really sad. My roommate just stayed in his bed and cried all day.

>>39812721

then you don't understand why the Republicans now want to keep that clause of the ACA.(besides public outcry)

Prior to that, pre-existing condition was used as a catchall to deny coverage and then summarily cancel a plan when a claim came in

As a republican, I am usually in favor of the whole private business govt stay away bit, but there are always areas that need regulation. that clause says you can't make you business profitable by taking payment on a plan and then skipping out when it comes time to pay. This is much the same argument and flood/fire/storm insurance in certain parts of the country; if the government doesn't back it like the FDIC does banks, then the profit first aspect of a corporation is going to squash Joe Citizen

>>39807418
I think that healthcare in general would be a lot better without all the fat and unhealthy fucks out there.

My partial solution would be to teach kids about ucking nutrition. I didn't know what calories were until last year. THat's ridiculous. I had to lurk /fit/ to even understand basic nutrition; most of these normies don't or won't.

>>39808382
where'd you live?

>>39809033
China?

BTFO

>>39812980
i have friends who are republican and support single payer. it takes a truly imaginative individual to assume that insurance companies act in the best interest of their policy holders.

my parents are even warming up to the idea, which is funny, because their old age is catching up with them and they're finding themselves in the doc's office more often. they don't draw SS or medicare benefits yet, but they'll probably shift their tone when house repubs start ramping up the healthcare conversation in the next couple of years.

>>39808382
I am curious about this "catastrophic" coverage. Didn't know it was that much per month. I am currently uninsured because YOLO, and have accepted that if I need to choose between life and medical bankruptcy, I'm fine with taking the hit to my credit score.

I recently had a minor eyelid surgery, and paid $500 cash to get fixed. It felt like the good old days, before insurance got involved and fucked everything up.

>>39813097

I'm not disagreeing with you, but some of the "imaginative" conservative pundits wouldn't. What I have a problem with is the standard "average white middle class american" attitude of work hard and you'll have a house, 2 kids, car and vacation every year. Service companies (insurance, medical, law, etc) only act in their interests, as bound by law, so the trendy Repub cry of "less regulation" strikes me as misguided conservative libertarianism.

As for the SS/Medicare angle , you're going to be in for a shock. Everyone I know where i grew up supports dismantling SS/medicare/medicaid and defining a cutoff age. if you're younger than 55, they want to make certain they get their's, at the cost of you being forced to pay for it...which was exactly what they were fighting against in Obamacare. Regardless, at least one of the following must happen: we smarten up military spending including the VA (/k/ territory), replace/remove SS(/pol/), grow the economy to the impossible(definitely /pol/), or break out of the obesity/disease ride we're on so we actually have a workforce that speaks English as a first language (/fit/)

We live in interesting times

>>39813190

having lasik this summer. Insurance doesn't have it's claws in all things medical.

I'll probably do my consult visit, schedule the surgery, and be happy it's cash on the barrelhead. Probably 3 days tops. Last surgery took 6 months of visits; if it's not dire life threatening they'll milk the time like a union

>>39812017
Testimony and documentation on the subject are vast. Hospitals and clinics are crumbling. Conditions are so unsanitary, patients may be better off at home, whatever home is. If they do have to go to the hospital, they must bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce. In Sicko, even sophisticated medications are plentiful and cheap. In the real Cuba, finding an aspirin can be a chore. And an antibiotic will fetch a fortune on the black market. A nurse spoke to Isabel Vincent of Canada’s National Post. “We have nothing,” said the nurse. “I haven’t seen aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I’ll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date.” The equipment that doctors have to work with is either antiquated or nonexistent. Doctors have been known to reuse latex gloves — there is no choice. When they travel to the island, on errands of mercy, American doctors make sure to take as much equipment and as many supplies as they can carry.

Even super liberal media outlets like Al Jazeera do pretend Cuban healthcare isn't medieval.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/06/201265115527622647.html

How can you be such a child that you would accuse everyone around you of being stupid just because they didnt see the Michael Moore documentary that you did and therefore had no reason to believe in his laughably demonstrably incorrect propaganda?

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>>39807418
The government should subsidize med school and nursing school so people don't have to pay tuition, only books and supplies. This way they aren't in massive debt and health care can be cheaper because first-year resident doctors won't need to be paid such high salaries just to survive. This would help stop the doctor and nurse shortage because more people could afford med school, while now even people with the skills to make it through med school can't always get enough loans and scholarships to afford it.

Some health care assistance for super poor people or the extremely disabled.

Mandatory nutrition and health classes in elementary, middle, and high schools. Not just the one month course, a full class. Extra taxes on anything with large amounts of sugar content, and cigarettes.

>>39813284
>do pretend

Don't pretend

>>39807590
>/fit/
>health and fitness

How does it not belong here?

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>mfw I realized that socialized healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. would not be as much of a tax burden on America if Blacks and Hispanics were gone.

>>39813361
Where do you see the word "health" in this board's name?

>>39813294
>this

>>39807873
lol

>>39816067
>lol

Get out.

>>39813294

>Implying first year doctor salaries are high
>Implying hospitals have a shortage of doctors- they just don't want to hire more to keep costs down

I agree on nutrition and health- the key is limiting lifelong chronic disease like obesity and the beetus, that's costly shit. A one off serious trauma operation? Cheap compared to a lifelong complex disease. Keep the public healthy, they'll work more, meaning more tax, and go to hospital less- more to spend on them when they do get ill, whether private insurance (have a job so can get good insurance) or national healthcare style (more tax so in theory- very long shot- better care)

>>39808438
t. A rich, condescending white kid with no perspective on social grievances of poor people.

>>39809114
>The swiss model is a fucking robbery and something like health care should be total responsibility from government
And holding a gun to a worker's head to force them to pay for your insurance isn't?

>No one knows this shit. I only knew this way too late and now I can sign myself for the fucking year 2018!
That's your fault, not the policy's.

>>39817011
>assuming he's white

No more racists on our board!
No more racists on our board!
No more racists on our board!
No more racists on our board!
No more racists on our board!
No more racists on our board!

>>39807455
Yep, this is the one that works

>>39810609
Except trump wants to replace it with exploitative monopoly and make everyone have worse healthcare for 100x the money

>>39809039
Ur talking beside the point, i doubt u even read the posts
Im all in favor for universal hc, but it should be that, universal
When u give power to gov/Company to select who pays more and who less we are sure to all just pay more

>>39811612

Not all veterans have Tricare. The option wasn't available for all their situations upon end of service.

You're also claiming that non-officers are not war heroes. Do you honestly think we only put officers into front line combat?

That that this entitles anyone to being treated with extra attention socially, but the other side of the dotted line they signed was a government agreement to take care of them if they have health issues after service.

>>39811515

This.

>>39817505
Where did I claim that a non-officer is not a war hero?

>>39807418
Easy. It shouldn't exist

>>39807477
switzerland is also turning into a shit hole socialist country

>>39810097

Well year, slow rate of properly qualified immigration isn't what I said I had a problem with initially however.

"MASS" immigration, where you get situations as bad as Germany where 55 out of 5,000,000 new immigrants happen to be working, and 50 of them are affirmative action hires in the post office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x3JDLr-3sA&t=658s

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>how do you want your socialised health care system senpai?

With millions of low IQ subhuman Muslims from all corners of Africa and the Middle East, that come to suck on the teat of the welfare state.

>say no more

>>39807418
A mix of socialized and not socialized is god tier.
That's what he have in Australia.

Fully socialized healthcare ends up with people paying for fat peoples insulin with their tax money and 5 month waiting lists for crucial surgeries
The opposite is America, where you pay $1,000,000 because you broke your arm.

You need a balance of both so it's affordable, but not so you can't ever be treated due to waiting in ques

>>39817534
...You're saying healthcare shouldnt exist, period?
Like no hospitals?

>>39817215
I am not sure what is going on in this thread but I just wanted to bump into here and say that I really hate niggers, jews and mudslimes. I also want to remove them all.

>>39817737
Always relevant

>>39807455
>probably a fucking leaf

government healthcare raises taxes for all and puts the people on the governments tit.

like welfare it creates a dependent class of morans who just live off the governments "charity" which reduces the spending money and ability to save or invest of the entire nation. this reduces capitalism and the flow of money which in turn makes everyone poorer with lower standards of living.

the USA became the power house of the century through near unfettered capitalism where those that could afford to take care of others were allowed to through charity and not forced to through taxes.

>>39817715
those weak enough to be culled by the common cold are bad for the gene pool

>>39817704
when the government funds private institutions they jack up the price for whatever they are providing, this is because they know they are guaranteed a certain amount by the government and can pass off the new price on to the consumer who thinks they have one, even though they now owe the government(either in taxes or loans like college) and whatever they would normally charge.

>>39817553
Okay cool. Don't really see how that dismisses my plan since I specified that the economy must grow at a rate faster than population growth. Mass immigration isn't really a talking point since my plan assumes we tighten borders and limit the rate of inflow.

>>39817907
That's why instead of having government contracts set up for specific private institutions, the smarter option is to have a government fund pool set up that goes to the company or group of companies which provide the best services at the cheapest costs on yearly contracts which must be renewed.

The problem comes when private organizations get lengthy contracts entitling them to money and they get to state what the costs are later down the road as they please. It gives them incentive to no be economical and help the country because the more economical they become with their solutions, the less we will have to pay them down the road. Making it a constant battle to get the contract year after year fixes that and creates healthy corporate competition.