Why does /fit/ hate Starting Strength?

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SS is a decent program for beginners who don't know what the fuck to do in the gym to learn the very basics of lifting, but it's too minimalist to get you aesthetic.

>>39752847
So what do you do next?

>>39752847
You know, except for the guy who looks like Hercules from doing ss

>>39752961
You're right Chloe is a beast.

>>39752961
No elite bodybuilder or strength athlete ever got to where they are through 5x5.

>>39753114

ofc they did.

>>39753114
>elite level professionals don't get to that level through a BASIC BEGINNER programm
Wew, what a shocker.

>>39752847
I've been on SS for 10 weeks after taking nearly ten years off from lifting. I am seeing decent progress on the strength side and also on aesthetics. This is also the first time I've really paid attention to diet so that's also helping.

Okay so if SS is the bible for unaesthetic but strong fatties, what is the bible for beginner aesthetics then? Theres so many out there its overwhelming for a noobie. Surely one must be more agreed on than the others? Pls help

It doesn't. SS is by far the best program for skinny beginners. The meme begins when fatasses think it applies to them.

>>39753168
To this guy's point I was 134lbs when I started. Up to 143lbs today.
>>39753157

>>39753168
A question: SS is great for skellys, got it, but it transforms then into strong, not aesthetic fatass or that's bullshit?

>>39753183
No programm will 'transform' you within 3-6months. SS will atleast build a very decent amout of strength that you can very easily build aesthetics from.

SS is very similar to a peaking program: It will get you to the point where you can use your muscles, but does not build much.

If u wanna build muscle, you need more volume. No, that 10 pounds of water weight after starting SS after being sedentary your whole life does not count as muscle.

>>39753249
>>39753220
literally auschwitz survival
should i bulk on SS with isolation volume ex for every muscle group + ab works or bulk in hypertrophy routine?
i am weak as fuck and all bonez

>>39753281

GZCL linear progression, 5/3/1 for beginners, greyskull, and the reddit ppl are all good beginner programs.

These all are similar to intermediate-advanced programs with linear progression programmed, and get you used to real volume work that you need after 1 month to get strength gains, and need always to get hypertrophy.

Get enough protein, ect

SS is just bad. First of all, it sets one up for elbow and back issued with 2:1 push-pull ratio
(both press and bench vs just chinups). Second of all, its deloading tequnique is just awful. Third of all, lowbar squats are bad for the average gym goer who cares more about general size and strength: high bar is better. fourth, 1x5 deadlifts is not enough to build sthrength

Finally, don't be afraid to fuck around with weights a bit after your main work

>>39752847
>aesthetic
this is always the criticism of SS. clue's in the name and I am sick of repeating it.

Is it called Starting Aesthetics? No, it;s called Starting Strength. Squatting barbells will not make you hercules, it will make you strong.

Want to get strong? Do SS. Want to get aesthetic? Nothing to see here, you picked the wrong program. You wouldn't try a sprinting routine then get mad when it didn't increase your marathon speed as effectively as marathon training would so why so faggots hold SS to the same standard?

>>39752886
if you run it to its end, you might try the texas method and give that a run for a year.

doing that, you'll be in a position to do literally any other program within reason without problems, if you did both effectively.

seriously can't rec the TM enough. it teaches you valuable lessons by not being one of those programs that you just enter numbers into and are provided numbers to hit that week.

>>39753476
It's because faggots don't have patience.

>What? I didn't get to Zyzz level within 3-6 months? Gotta be the program! Fuck Rippletitts!

They don't realize that no fucking program will give you major aesthetic gains in so little time, but that's a hard truth so they rather make stupid excuses. Build a solid strength base and make better aesthetic gains then? No, they need it right fucking now. Same reason why we have all these stupid '6day sixpack programs'.

>>39753158
PPLPPLx , or ULxULxx (push pull legs or upper lower)

SS will make you look good if you supplement it effectively with curls, chins etc and don;t bulk like a retard. get it into your head that routines don't make you fat, diets do.

>>39753587
absolutely.

the fact that stronger muscles wil get bigger faster by using more weight when they come to hypertrophy training is actually very little known outside of strength training and powerlifting.

i suspect its because no one has the care or patience to get strong to much of an extent if their interest is mass (which is fair enough but people need to be educated about this)

>>39753622
Literally the opposite. You'll do a bit of peaking whether you do 3x5, 5x5 or 5x10. But strength is a function of hypertrophy, not the other way around.

A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. If you add size to a muscle, it will always be stronger. that's it.

>>39753622
Here's a good article I found on how hypertrophy leads strength.

http://mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/2016/11/real-pyramid-training-from-beginners-to.html

>>39753647
no, not 'literally the opposite'. yes, hypertrophy results in strength but using higher loads results in more mass. its two-way. never did i say that hypertrophy results in no strength gain

besides, if 10s were the way to maximize strength, then strength athletes wouldn't do doubles, triples etc.

you ain;t gonna win this one, boyo.

>>39753158
Allpro's beginners workout

>>39753647
I'm sorry, but reaching 1/2/3/4 for reps on a pure hypertrophy programm will be quite the difficult task. Speaking from experience (my own and watching guys train with such programs for years without ever reaching such weight).

I can't prove it ofc, but I'd say reaching 1/2/3/4 for reps fast (like you do with something like SS) and then doing a more hypertrophy focused program would ultimately lead to more strength and muscle volume in the same time as a pure hypertrophy routine would.

Would be interesting to actually do some studies on this.

>>39753729
10s don't maximize strength. peaking does, and practicing the movements helps.

But there's a reason why every successful overpowering program includes super high volume.

5/3/1 BBB, building the monolith,GZCL, Jacked and tan 1& 2, sheiko, deathbench, deathpress, ect

Volume leads to long term strength gains, peaking leads to short term strength gains

because GOMAD.

>>39753778

If you think you reach 1/2/3/4 for reps on SS without having already:

fucked around in the gym
working out for a sport
or being fat,

you have a rude awakening coming to you.

Generally, if someone thinks you can individually train for strength or hypertrophy, they probably have neither.

>>39752804
People hate it because they misunderstand what the program is for. It's for building a >>>STRENGTH<<< base. It's not an aesthetics program.

You will gain some aesthetics for it, as with strength you will see at least a minimal size increase.

/fit/ hates it because they do SS, thinking it will do everything and anything they want it to do and then get mad that they didn't bother reading the sticky.

>>39753813
Jokes on you - never did SS. I did brosplits for years. Then trained consistently, but not seriously or properly the last 2 years (no proper equipment and diet). Had to pause half a year due to severe injury last year. To really get back in, I'm now doing a strength routine for the first time.

So can't really tell how it is doing something like this without having fucked around in the gym or working out for a sport. I'd say I have quite the experience with hypertrophy programs though. But I'm quite positive I'll again reach 1/2/3/4 with it easily.

Also everywhere on /fit/ you hear them say 1/2/3/4 should easily be possible with SS within months.

SS is fine but damn that is an ugly squat they preach.

>>39753778
>>39753813
>>39753882
Newb here, what does 1/2/3/4 refer to?

>>39753882
You already have a muscle base, i don't doubt you'll hit 1 2 3 4 pretty easily.

And /fit/ says you can hit 1/2/3/4 on SS in months? the same /fit/ where every other thready is a no gf thread or a "high test" thread? Most people here are beginner's and say SS works because some other beginner told them SS works.

SS is honestly liked because its easy to understand and do, not because its good. 3x5 feels a lot easier than 5x10. No one goes into the gym "oh boy I can't wait to do 5x10 deadlits" Because it hard, and beginers don't want to do something thats hard

>>39753920
1pl8 the press
2pl8 flat bb bench
3pl8 squat
4pl8 deadlift

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>>39752804

>>39753934
>And /fit/ says you can hit 1/2/3/4 on SS in months? the same /fit/ where every other thready is a no gf thread or a "high test" thread? Most people here are beginner's and say SS works because some other beginner told them SS works.
I'll give you that. What would you say someone can realistically achieve with SS within a couple of months?

I too don't like everything about SS. The weird low bar squat, the extremely low volume, the imbalanced exercises (only 1x5 dead, no rowing/chinups at all). But from what I've heard, it does what it's supposed to and I kinda like the idea behind it. Personally I'd do SL at the very minimum. In fact, I'm doing something like ICF - so a SL modification - atm, but as I said I have a different condition than real beginners.

>>39753997
I'd say that SS will teach someone how to do the lifts. For someone who either used to lift or used to workout in some other way, it will get you pretty quickly to where you should be.

But its designed to make you feel good about your lifts, which is not nessaserally the same as gaining overal strength-hence the cheaty press ripptoe recommends and lowbar squats

Honestly, greyskull is a better SS routine. Any good routine should have at least 1 AMRAP set in the main exercise to modulate progress.

>>39753813
First time gym goer here. Ive hit 1/2/3/4 in 6 months without prior experience in sports and lifting. Not even fat, 6'0 175lbs.

you're a moron and should kys. Not everyone is a weak fuck like you fucking indian

>>39754047

You've got too much there, the bait is too obvious. Be more subtle next time.

>>39753779
>Volume leads to long term strength gains, peaking leads to short term strength gains
elaborate? how short term we talking here?

The book "Starting Strength" is a very good resource.


>>39752847
>too minimalist to get you aesthetic.

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>>39753114

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>>39753168
>he meme begins when fatasses think it applies to them.

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>>39753249
>SS is very similar to a peaking program

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>>39753322
>SS is just bad. First of all, it sets one up for elbow and back issued with 2:1 push-pull ratio
>(both press and bench vs just chinups). Second of all, its deloading tequnique is just awful. Third of all, lowbar squats are bad for the average gym goer who cares more about general size and strength: high bar is better. fourth, 1x5 deadlifts is not enough to build sthrength

Doesn't know what he's talking about; clearly hasn't read the book

>>39753779
>high volume.
>5/3/1 BBB

CLEARLY doesn't know what he's talking about

>>39753919
>damn that is an ugly squat they preach.

fuk u

>>39754031
>not nessaserally the same as gaining overal strength-hence the cheaty press ripptoe recommends and lowbar squats

Doesn't know what he's talking about

>>39753779
never heard of deathbench and deathpress, what are those

>>39754108
>CLEARLY doesn't know what he's talking about
fucking hell, how is BBB not high volume? how much more do you want?

>>39754108
Ahh just what we need, someone who posts in an authoritative tone with a tripcode to tell us what to do.

I totally bet this guy is super strong and aesthetic, and not just some keyboard warrior!

>>39754122
Sheiko large load

>>39754128
at what point in one's strength 'career' is one ready for those presumably advanced programs? currently grinding the texas method and enjoying it but want to settle into something higher volume after. will i be ready

>>39754123

Come hang out in the /plg/ anytime friend


>>39754162

What are your goals, friend? If you're still enjoying Texas Method I would stick with it.

>>39754162

Gradually scale your volume up until you're doing the most sessions you want to do. I've done 12 in a week or 40 in a month just by spending 2-3 months ramping up. Then you ramp down, currently doing 5-7 a week. Will probably do 8-10 next week and 10-12 the week after.

>>39754241
Ahh you post in plg, therefore you must be big and strong.

Post body or turn off the trip

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>>39753114
I started with SS and am happy where I ended up.

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5/3/1 for beginners is a better program than LPs like SS and SL, if you can keep track of it, because:

Youll increase reps, not weight, which prevents;
> Ego lifting
> Bad form from to much weight
> Stalling at all

Also, it is properly periodized, so:
> You won't stall
> Bad days won't mess up the program
> Do not waste good days: do more reps
And finally, it incorporates assistance work as early as possible, so you get to train arms and shoulders properly.

That being said, if you like something really basic, SS or GSLP will suffice for noob gains. Both are good non bullshit programs.

>>39754115
High volume high intensity programs. Basically you need to put all other lifts on hold to survive the volume and just bench, but apparently it works really well.

>>39754259
I agree 99%, just one thing:

GSLP is much much better than SS, As the included AMAP set gives some semblance of periodization It also means that when you deload you increase volume, not decrease it.

>>39754241
strength and aesthetics im general

want to hit strength gains first then focus on mass.

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>>39754254

k

>>39754286

So a bit of a BB focused program then? I'm afraid I can't help you much there, lad. I train pretty specific to powerlifting. It's too bad more of the form competitors on /fit/ don't have a general.

>>39754306
i guess. i'm not interested in powerlifting, only general strength. also aesthetics. don't wanna look like that guy isley.

>>39754325
>don't wanna look like that guy isley.

No-one does friend, but if you wanna deadlift 300kg you gotta make that deal with the devil. Sorry lad, wish I could be more helpful.

>>39754283
GSLP says it's an intermediate routine, it sounds really good though.

Should I do SS first then switch to GSLP?

>>39754339
goal 1RMs:

230kg diddly
200kg squat
100kg OHP
140kg bench

the rest of my time can be aesthetics. doable on BBB?

>>39754400
Also since GSLP has press, bench press, and curls should I do pull ups instead to work my late better?

>>39754411
>BBB?
More like Baby Back Bitch.

>>39754400
>>39754417

If you do GSLP you'll do fine, the AMRAP set lets you progress at a good rate at beginner level, and most importantly lets beginners know what trying feels like

chinups and pullups are basically interchangable, do the one thats most comfortable

>>39754424
guide me m8, after TM i have no idea what to do

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>>39754400
>>39754417
>>39754395
>>39754433
>I do GSLP. Should I miss a rep on any lift I better deload by 10%!

>>39754411

I really enjoyed BBB, just be sure to cycle off it every once in a while.

>>39754424

You forgot the "!" in the tripcode, lad.

>>39754448
Its not a deload, as volume increases when you decrease the weight. Unlike a certain other program where its recommended to do less volume to progress

because first the big fad was to recommend starting strength, now the big fad is to hate starting strength

SS is perfectly fine, always has been

i think a lot of people either don't do the program right or stick to it for too long when they should be going to periodized training with more volume

>>39754456
>cycle off it
why? i thought it was for gaining like forever

what else could i do

also how do i cut without losing all my gains, how should i train

>>39754433
How do you feel about this version of GSLP?

http://www.barbellmedicine.com/potpourri/gslp-strength-bias/

>>39754500

The core 5/3/1 is really good for steady slow progression, but the actual BBB sets really fuck you up after prolonged use. He kind of outlines it in the book. I would basically suggest doing Three mesocycles on BBB and then do one whole mesocycle without it. I did 22 mesocycles in a row of BBB and it fucked me up.

>>39753322
(you) are just a huge faggot aren't you?
I'm not even gonna touch on how dumb you sound - I'll just pray that you leave and never return

>>39754600
>faggot

ask me how I know you're 13

>>39754589
poutine,

if you have experience cutting, what routine do you think would work the best on a 500-750 calorie deficit? sheiko already chewed me up on this cut so that is not an option

>>39754634
>sheiko already chewed me up on this cut

Oh jesus why would you ever do fatigue accumulation and cut oh god why do you hate yourself.

I cut from 215 to 185 with an acceptable amount of lost strength on 5/3/1. It sucked, I would never do it again. Not because of the 5/3/1, but because I love food.

>>39753813

ive gone from 65/75/85/135 to 160/215/285/385 in 6mo on ss

the only thing I wont hit with ss is bench. moved to TM for arms. squats low cause of injuries and deadlift will be 405 in 2 weeks

>>39754651
oh it accumulated alright, i think i'm only now getting back to normal

what 5/3/1 template were you doing? I was considering going to something like that, or something even simpler (maybe just hitting a couple heavy 3x5s a week)

>>39753322


135 to 385 1x5 with 10lb jumps the entire way here

you seem real knowedgeable great work

>>39754669

By that point I'd tweaked 5/3/1 beyond any template that currently existed. But I enjoyed the classic 5/3/1 over the newer version, and I tried to keep it simple. Do the template you enjoy the most.

>>39754619
How do you know I'm 13?
>How do you know I'm 13?

You massive faggot

>>39754761
>faggot

You're up past your bedtime. It's not 2005 anymore, no-one thinks "faggot" is edgy or acceptable.

>>39754769
Do you know what website you're on and understand its history and culture?

>>39754669
the form of the guy squatting is completely wrong.

It's not but like most things it has been bastardized and hardly resembles what it once was or intended to be. Bill Starr (Ripp's teacher) made it as a cycle to be ran by his football players to recover lost strength. In other words, it wasn't aimed at your regular couch potato, yet nowadays is for some reason.

That's also the reason why this program has some of the highest differences in strength gains. A guy who has been doing sports will get more out of it than the guy doing brosplits, who will get more out of it than the guy starting out.

A better option would be the Candito LP (hypertrophy) or 5/3/1 for beginners. They are less aggressive and can be ran longer than SS for someone who has never been in a gym.

>>39754769
Jokes on you I'm posting from my bed.

>trying to act mature on the fourth channel

Tripfag please go be a enormous faggot somewhere else

>>39752847
>aethetics
nigger just get your lifts up to 1/2/3/4 and then add curls and increase reps to 3x8
this will get most people a better body than they could've ever achieved on any shitty brosplit

>>39754858

ur mum is gonna take away all ur goodboy points if she finds out ur sneaking compy time under the covers lad r u crazy ull never get ur tendies this way

>>39754903
>gets called out on being on trying to act mature
>overcompensates with pathetic attempt to me
Ask me how I know you're a faggot again

>>39754895
I believe this aswell, but are there actually any studies done on this matter?

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>>39754843
I was always a skinnyfag weakling and never did any sports whatsoever, even avoided school sports whenever I could

my stats after 3 months of SS while on a caloric deficit in kg:
25/42.5/80/95 and 1 gf

pretty happy with the results except for my DL being weak as fuck because I was convinced I could avoiding mixed grip on my worksets and didn't increment it for a long long time

also I'm e-statting about the gf it's actually 0

>>39754925

If being compassionate to the fact that using "faggot" as an insult has harmed thousands of people makes me gay, then lube up and stick your dick in my butt.

>>39754945
no need for studies, everyone who looks good to you lifts 3x heavier than you do but does the same amount of sets you do

put 2 and 2 together

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>>39754960
you're a total faggot poutine

>>39754966
Not true. Have seen guys bench less then me with way better chest development.
That's not what I was talking about though. Again, I agree with you, I'm just curious whether it's scientifically proven that building solid strength fast then going for aesthetics from there is more effective than just starting with a bro split. I'd say no, but just because I personally made experiences that match this and have seen brosplits fail horribly dozens of times doesn't make this a general fact. My observations are completely anecdotal, which is why I asked for studies.

>>39755009
>Not true. Have seen guys bench less then me with way better chest development.
you asked them to take off their shirt for you?

>>39755010
>what are tanktops
Are you autistic?

>>39754966
this is pretty wrong

nobody benching 405 is doing so with starting strength levels of bench volume

you can get bigger quicker with more volume at a lower percentage 1rm

believe it or not the differences in hypertrophy and strength oriented routines did not come about by accident, lower intensities with more volume actually are a whole lot better for size

>>39753569
Whats the tradeoff in aesthetics in TM vs ppl over half a year or something? Will I only put on half as much muscle mass or something, but be stronger?

>>39752804
Very low volume and lack of GPP

>>39753141
The didn't do something like this even when they were beginners. Most powerlifters I know did something like 3x10 bodybuilding style routines in the beginning.

IM about to start SS ...

When do you guys think i should stop doing SS (as in what lifting maxes)?

Im 6'2" 155 lb,

>>39755111
Read the book

>>39753249
>SS is very similar to a peaking program
This
>>39754108
You are stupid as fuck.

Th origins of SS is offseason program for football players. They need to gain strength fast after before new season. And how is this program can be good for average guy that decided to build muscles and strength?

>>39755117
No

>>39755120
Then why is it called "starting strength" instead of "regaining strength" or "offseason strength?"

It's for absolute beginners who are completely out of shape to gain some core strength on compound lifts before they start a real beginning (what people on /fit/ would call intermediate) program. If you're already reasonably in shape (at least casually play a sport), sure it's probably remedial for you.

>>39755120
>You are stupid as fuck.

Mate, you don't know what the fuck peaking is.

Linear Periodization does not allow for peaking: there is not variance of frequency or intensity, there are no microcycles, there is no overreaching phase. Getting strong fast is NOT peaking, ya dingus.

>>39754051
nah you're just weak

tl;dr you're weak

>>39754047
>>39754660
>not hitting 2/4/6/8 in six weeks on SS
You are weak as fuck

>>39755120
>Th origins of SS is offseason program for football players
Source?

>>39755136
>>39755120

Here is some additional reading, so you can actually understand what we mean when we talk about 'peaking'

http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2014/08/12/peaking-powerlifting/

>>39754660
THat's great dude.

What did your diet usually consist of in general?

Did you get nice hypertrophy gains?

>>39755134
>Then why is it called "starting strength" instead of "regaining strength" or "offseason strength?"
Why deadlifts called so if nobody dies?
Why dumbbell flies called so if nobody flies?

>>39754949
Dude, hate to break it to you but those are some awful stats. You need direct shoulder and peck work at the very least.

>>39755215
Because you're lifting starting from a "dead" position, the weight is just on the ground.

Flies because it mimics wing action.

>>39754966
>>39755009
Believe it or not, constantly lifting heavy is the worst way to make hypertrophy/aesthetics.

>>39755165
The Strongest Shall Survive: Strength Training for Football by Bill Starr aka Ripp's teacher.

>>39755134
Yeah no. No legitimate coach will make uncoordinated individuals max out on the squat and deadlift.

>>39755246
That's what every fucking linear progression program and program with AMRAP sets mentioned here does.

>>39755266
It's still bad but at least the AMRAP controls the weight increase and rep progression is safer than just adding more weight. I will get a lot of flack for this but untrained individuals are better off spending 3 months with a PT than going straight for something like SS.

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Sheiko's novice routine in pic.

This is Juggernaut beginner routine.
http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

This is Dmitry Golovinsky's beginner routine
Monday: squat 3x10, bench 3x10, leg extensions 3x10, DB bench 3x10.
Thursday: Deadlift 3x10, bench 3x10, goodmornings 3x10, dips 3x10.

It leads to

Monday: squat 4x10, bench 3x12, front squat 3x8, cgbp 3x8, leg extensions 3x12.
Wednesday: deadlift 4x10, bench 4x12, goodmornings 3x10, ohp 3x8.
Friday: squat 4x8, bench 4x10, wide stance squat 3x8, incline bench 4x12, curls 4x10.


This is beginner strength routine from russian MS in powerlifting IPF, pretty similar to most russian beginner routines.
Monday: squat 5x5, bench 5x5, dips 3x8, goodmornings 3x10, calves 2x15, abs.
Wednesday: deadlift 3x5, rows 3x8, OHP 3x8, shrugs 2x20, hypers 3x15, abs.
Friday: squat 5x5, bench 5x5, cgbp 3x8, goodmornings 3x10, calves 2x15, abs.
Why should I use SS and not this programs?

It doesn't matter if SS is good or not.

Doing compound lifts often with a
focus on progression and good technique is what's good. SS is just an efficient way for people to do that for 3-6 months so they don't wind up like a bunch of dyels who can't even bench 1pl8 wondering when their chest day is going to start giving them results.

>>39755320
You should do whatever program you want.
If you do SS, you'll gain mass and get stronger.
If you do SL, you'll gain mass and get stronger.
If you do Reg Parks, you'll gain mass and get stronger.
If you do GSLP, you'll gain mass and get stronger.
If you do TM, you'll gain mass and get stronger.

No one here is at an elite level where the nuances between each will matter, and if they were they'd be working out on a custom plan for them. For novices and most people, the differences are moot.

Stop being an autist, pick a program, and start lifting. The worst program will give you better gains than shitposting on /fit/ about which has marginally better aesthetics.

>>39755193

>What did your diet usually consist of in general?
i started at 3 autistic frozen chicken sandwiches (yes i literally eat the same 3 meals every day) and 1/3 gomad and ramped up overtime to 1/2 gomad with a couple spoons of peanutbutter

as long as you hit calories/macros you will get stronger. im poor so I do this.

>Did you get nice hypertrophy gains?

im 6'2 so I just look like a bigger dyel instead of auchwitz. I look at at my progression purely in terms of strength. will keep going until gains get hard and lean out after

I did bench, OHP, curls and shrugs for many months. Unbalanced as fuck, I know. Got my bench up to 215. Girls could notice that I lift and for a good amount of time after I stopped lifting, they could tell when my shirt was off. Unfortunately my arms weren't very impressive and a lot of people assumed I was just a skelly.

>>39755355
>listed almost same programs
>DO WHAT YOU WANT, EVERYTHING WORK!!!

>>39755499
That's my point.
You are arguing over programs with negligible differences.

>>39755453
>bench, OHP, curls and shrugs
>literal neanderthal mode posture

>>39755218
not counting the bar by the way

It's mostly retards who hate SS because they don't understand what it is.

>>39755818
lmao that fucking changes it

I was like "what the fuck 25kg ohp after 3 months?"

what should i do after SS? TM, 5 3 1 or sheiko?

>>39753770
I second this
AP is amazing for pure aesthetics, but is too slow for strength

>>39752847

NO n00b LP program is going to get you "aesthetics," dipshit. Especially by /fi/'s standards, you need steroids to get "aesthetic."

And even then, SS is the best starting point for a n00b. It will build the most muscle the fastest in some dork that just started, or some dude who has taken extended time off.

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>>39753114

>SS
>5x5

Get out

>>39753281

"Ab work" is a meme. Even if you WANT visible abz, squats and shit will build enough muscle for that. After that, you need low bodyfat.

Actual, factual SS The Program has chin ups in it for your arms. You don't need a lot else, and you won't benefit from a bunch else as a n00b, unless you're on lots of roids.

>>39752804
Because they dont know how to program it to make it more balanced and they do GOMAd even though they are already fat.

They dont know that the book recommends a fourth set with less weight and more reps for more volume and muscle gain.

The reason why they hate it is because they havent read it properly and are 50% autistic.

When do you know to transition off SS?

>>39753947

>0.5lbs per day

>>39756206
ANd people dotn udnerstand that the basic program is originally made for football players who have to train football and gain strength at the same time. Which is why its so minimalistic.
Rip even says it in the book. SO if you dont lay football then you can add a few extra exercises that will balance the program more to give you more "aesthetics"

>>39756213
You read the god damn book. It says when youre sure that the stall isnt caused by lack of eating or sleeping and you have resetted a few times.

read the book.

>>39756213
when it longer works and you're sure you've eliminated obvious user errors like not eating enough, skipping workouts, bad technique etc. the book says after you stall for the third time, but in practice they use a more pragmatic approach where they stop you before that.

the actual answer is to change when doing weekly progression would be just as fast or faster than the progress you currently get on SS.

>>39756221
no, you're confused. Bill Starr's original program was made for football players. SS was never made for football players, it's for people who want to get big and strong. the program is already "balanced", but if you want to be a bodybuilder you can make a couple of changes. people are way too worried about what they can add to the program and not nearly enough worried about doing the program correctly, though.

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I'm doing bro splits but don't think it's working, should I just do TM or something else if my goal is A E S T H E T I C S ?

>>39756241
When i mean add exercises i mean like chest isolation on OHP day and curls on hte day you dont do chin ups.

>>39756249
Do starting strength.
add a fourth set with 8 reps.

and this>>39756297

SS is pretty much balanced, but you wont see it untill youve gained a decent amount of muscle.

>>39754470
I think if you're starting out, it's effective enough. It's definitely a million times better than just sitting home all day wishing you could do something. It's also a good way to learn all the shit.

>>39752804
One does not need a beginner program

All you have to do as a beginner is add weight on every week, that's it. It's as simple as that.

>>39756104
TM then 5/3/1

>>39756499
you're right in the sense that a novice will make progress even on a shitty routine, but the purpose on the good novice routines is to make the whole process a lot quicker. you see people on bad routines taking years to reach the same weights that you can reach in 5-6 months on SS. so you're right in the sense that you don't need a novice routine to become and intermediate, but you need a good novice routine if you want to make optimal progress.

SS is a decent program, but the cult around it is ridiculous. It's just one of the many very basic strength program types that have been recommended on the internet for 15 years. Rippetits and his shills have suddenly started spouting everywhere since about 2010 to get easy shekels.
As a beginner (no matter if you goal is strength or aesthetics) you should do a basic program that teaches you the lifts and add weight every workout.
So SS is not a meme, but the hype Rippetits and his cult followers create around it is.

>>39756499
profoundly stupid.

SS will have you adding weight 3 times a week, not 1, that's the texas method's job.

>>39755231
Elaborate

because /fit/ wants aesthetics, and SS doesn't give you aesthetics due to the very little exercise selection and low volume + no one actually does the program correctly so most people are just wasting their time doing SS when they could be getting the same results and better doing a PPL program or something of that sort.

what I mean is the way people are doing the program is incorrect, thus their linear progression will be extremely slow, so instead of doing SS which is supposed to increase your lifts in a very short timeframe, do something that will actually suit your goals with high volume, you'll progress regardless of what program you're doing as a novice anyway.

tldr - do the program as written or fuck off and stop your cunty whining

>>39756875
You gain hypertrophy by doing volume work. Your 3x5/5x5 is in the high-intensity bracket, meaning you are accumulating more fatigue and wear and tear on your joints for less overall work done. To put this into perspective let's use bench as an example:

3x5x80kg = 1200kg
5x10x60kg = 3000kg

The other guy then is able to do assistance work which further increases the tonnage because he still has more energy in the tank and more time on the clock. Now, with enough conditioning and drive you can match his volume output for this and the next session but good luck maintaining it for an entire training cycle.

This goes back to what I said previously - it's a good program but it has been bastardized to such an extent that it has become a joke. I blame the effect that WoW has had on forums plus Ripp's constant shilling of it.

The best program is the one you stick to.

Why do people act like retards on here?

Pick a fucking program that is based on the fundamentals and stick to it.

If you don't like doing compound movements only, add some assistance shit after you do your compounds to make yourself feel better.

If that will motivate you to do the program, then do it, it's not gonna kill your gains.

You need to eat like a pig to make the recommended strength gains on SS, and most people are not willing to do that.

>>39756967
I always wonder why GOMAD and GVT aren't recommended to beginners. If you are going to eat 2000 over your maintenance why not make full use of it?

SS will make you strong but it neglects the upper body.

It can be a good program if you add accessories for the "glamour muscles," but on its own it will quickly give you functional real-world strength with the most practical muscles that you use every day.

>>39756951
>3x5x80kg = 1200kg
>5x10x60kg = 3000kg

The first guy will, however, be able to do easily do this 2-3 times a week and therefore possibly even surpassing the second guy in total work load all the while building less long-term fatigue. I guess this boils down to volume vs frequency, but the calculation you did is definitely to simplistic for this matter.

>>39757076
On SS you bench once or twice a week. If you bench two times you are 600kg off his total volume from benching alone. I know this is simplified to a very large degree but so is SS.

>>39757103
Considering SS - I'll give you that.

I was adressing this more as a general matter. For example when doing UL/PushPull (not even talking about PHUL) twice a week vs doing a PPL/brosplit once per week. The first should at the very least come very close in total workload, but with higher frequency, lower reps and less long-term fatigue. In this case - workload in total is similar, though getting there is very different - your calculation wouldn't really apply, would it?

>>39754259
This

>>39757196
No - of course not. I don't think he was asking that, though. There are ways to have high volume and high frequency with low reps but the intensity will have to go down. Think Sheiko training.

Look, there's literally thousands of ways to structure your training. What matters most is the goal you have for the training cycle.

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>>39752804

Starting Strength is a great program for the first 6 months of lifting. Middle of the road lifters can expect to see the following at the end:

Squats / Deadlifts - High 300's to 405
Bench - 200 - 225
Overhead Press - 135 minimum
Chin-ups - 20 - 30

From there, just do the split routine recommended in Practical Programming.

>>39757242
I don't doubt that there's a million ways to structure a program. We've come a bit far off the initial thought though. What he said was:

>constantly lifting heavy is the worst way to make hypertrophy/aesthetics
>you gain hypertrophy by doing volume work

As example he brought that workload calculation as a quantification of volume. Now my problem is: As I said in the post you referred to, I can reach similar workload as a 'hpertrophy program' with a program that focuses on high weight. So how does he become to his conclusion (high weight = bad for hpertrophy) despite the objection I made. Is total workload a bad quantification of volume? Is ULx2 so good that it combines both? Is doing higher volume on one single day (with longer rest) still somehow better for hypertrophy and if yes why is that?

I'm not even saying he's wrong, I just have my doubts.

>>39757244
Wow, after following SS I am nowhere near that, wow.

>>39757321
Volume is king when it comes to gains - the more work you do (and recover from), the better your results will be. Frequency is a way to distribute volume and control fatigue and wear and tear. Shoving all of Sheiko's bench volume in a day will trash your shoulders or make you want to stop going to the gym entirely.

Now, the reason why constant heavy lifting, i.e. 80%+ is generally a bad way to gain hypertrophy is that it is unsustainable or if it is you will be in the gym for 2 hours, trying to match the work of someone using high reps. 2 hours for 10x2 at 90% is an awful way to spend your time there.

The biggest problem comes when you start building up fatigue. Good luck hitting 90% when you are deep into a high volume cycle with high intensity and good luck NOT having technique breakdowns/higher injury risk.

There are ways around it. WS and CnP do it but they use exercise variations so you could lift heavy but they also use assistance work and variations again for the bulk of the volume-building.

That's making it too complex, though. A better way to train is - when you bulk, ramp up the volume and do a split. When you cut, run something like SS or 5/3/1.

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>>39757339

Here is a more conservative estimate. Any man should be able to get these numbers in 6 months. Women should probably expect similar for the lower body and 2/3's for the upper body.

>>39755320

This is actually not the correct novice routine. I don't know why the ptw-guy transcribed it that way, maybe to save space and time for his youtube series?

You can find the ACTUAL novice programs on his forum, which has the correct rep schemes and what not: http://sheiko-program.ru/forum/index.php?board=1.0 (the stickys) It's not recommended to run without a coach though.

Is rows an actual replacement for power cleans in SS? Rip says no in the latest SS, but I've seen people quote him on it.

Excellent thread. One of the rare ones where most peope are civil and know their shit.

What are your opinions on GVT?

>>39757746
Doesn't seem logical for to me.

To be able to finish all sets you need a light enough weight, which means the first sets won't be as hard. Why not just use a pyramid scheme like sheiko does on his bench days instead? Makes much more sense.

>>39757639
It's Pendlay row. He says something along the lines of "you should know what you're giving up" and how it helps deadlift explosion.

>>39757746
It's needlessly sadistic but it gets the job done. I'd rather put a GOMAD skelly on it that SS. With it, you won't have to do GOMAD, though because it spikes your appetite.

SS is most importantly good for form and an overall good and recommended beginner book. Nothing bad about it and if you hear a bitch complaining about it just know that they are a bitch

>>39755818
>not counting the bar
literally no point in excluding the bar's weight ever.

>>39756951
then why do people who give SS and TM a good run normally have absolutely massive legs (far bigger than most bodybuilders etc who do high volume leg work?) when 3x5, 5RM and triples are most predominantly used throughout that time (assuming 5x5 on TM volume day isn't kept up for needlessly long)?

>>39757924
literally no point including the bars weight ever. Everyone knows you're lifting it, it doesn't add any information adding its weight to your total weight besides pushing your ego. You don't see people here bragging about their 80kg pull-up either, so stop this meme.

>>39757381
>Now, the reason why constant heavy lifting, i.e. 80%+ is generally a bad way to gain hypertrophy is that it is unsustainable or if it is you will be in the gym for 2 hours, trying to match the work of someone using high reps

Ahh come on, 5x5ing your two major compounds won't make your workout 2hours long.

>>39757381
>When you cut, run something like SS or 5/3/1.
not him

currently on the TM. been eating a lot so feeling like a bit of a fat-belly. now, if i was to use 5/3/1 to cut, which variation would I use (would i just do the basic 5/3/1 skeleton program or throw in assistance too?), and now my main concern - given that its advised to begin with low weights, am I correct in assuming that low weight + caloric deficit = insane strength loss coming off a short term peaking program like the TM, in the initial introductory period?

i've never really cut properly before so i don;t know how to transition between routines. i was thinking maybe i could switch to 5/3/1 before i cut and to get through the introductory period in order to handle deent weights again, and the cut.

thoughts? if you can spare the time

>>39757964
I doubt they are bigger than BB. You are using tension overload which is a way to manipulate volume. When you up the weight, you up the work done. This is very effective for the lower body because it is, by default, developed more and far stronger than your upper body. You are essentially making your bigger muscles even bigger.

>>39757999
Depends.

>>39757999
>meme
wew. you've got DYEL stats and it shows in your posts

ever stopped to consider the fact that 7ft, 6ft, 5ft and other bars exist? these bars are different weights.

also, if i was to OHP 40kg plus a 20kg bar, i have pressed 60kg over my head. why the fuck would I say I pressed 40kg when i pressed 60kg?

as for your stupid pull up analogy - most people report their bodyweight when talking about pull ups.

>>39758018
Just run something that doesn't have insane volume and you will be fine. You can gain strength on a cut as long as your recovery is on point.

>>39757999

Guess what? Everyone else does it, so you should too. You won't change the rest of the world, so use common fucking terminology.

What's better? Always counting the bar or always mentioning that you're not counting the bar and getting into autistic arguments like this.

Fuck off.

Regarding: people do mention their weight, but since everyone is different it doesn't really matter. You say BW, or BW@70kg or BW +10kg or whatever if weighted. The bar always weighs the same, so it's not a good comparison.

>>39758049
so bigger, stronger muscles are easier to grow using heavy weights by merit of being stronger and bigger, than small musles are?

if someone was to use TM to increase their press in the usual setup (vol/light/int), would this be a bad idea?

>>39758080
>so bigger, stronger muscles are easier to grow using heavy weights by merit of being stronger and bigger, than small musles are?
Yeah. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

For your second point, people complain a lot about the pressing volume on Rippetoe's programs. See how it goes. If it works, it works - if it doesn't unleash your inner bro and smash those things with some more work.

Lifting weights for us hobbyists is simple - eat more to grow, do more work for better gains and train towards your personal goals.

>>39758058
>why the fuck would I say I pressed 40kg when i pressed 60kg?
Ah, as I said - it's an ego thing. Nobody cares you pressed 60kg over your head. Literally nobody. We don't care about the total number, we care how much weight you added to that thing everyone else lifts anyways. Again, it doesn't provide any information it's just you pushing your ego because a 60kg OHP just sounds so much better than 40kg.

>>39758065
>What's better? Always counting the bar or always mentioning that you're not counting the bar and getting into autistic arguments like this.
What's better? Never counting the bar or always substracting it when figuring out how many plates the guy actually added to the bar and then getting into autistic 'b-but I did lift it mommy, I'm a strong boy' arguments like this.

Why do you think we ask how many pl8s someone lifts? Because that's the thing that matters. You lifting the bars weight is a void, blatantly evident statement that provides no information whatsoever.

>I also pulled up the water in my stomach and my clothes and my shoes and my smartphone and the belt - lets add another 5kg because I did lift that!!!!!

>>39758201
If you want to know their actual weight you ask them how much they weigh.

>>39758213
>their actual weight
Meant strength.

>>39758201
what the hell

you are being needlessly modest. i would be ego lifting if i did bad form for shaky reps then went online and bragged about it. why you think saying you have a 60kg OHP when you have a 60kg OHP is 'an ego thing' is absolutely beyond my comprehension.

and you've yet to discredit my point that 1 plate on a 5ft bar is different to 1 plate on a 7ft bar. you better know what you're lifting if you find all the 7ft bars taken one day.

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Can only speak for myself, but this is my results from 7 months of SS. Great for fast strength and visual gains, the program only takes like 30-40 minutes 3-4 times a week and it taught me all the basic exercises to a point that im now squatting 5 plates and DL 5 plates for 5(haven't dared maxing because last time i fkd my back for about 2 weeks).
I don't do milk so i bulked slightly over TDEE with unsalted peanuts and larger meals.
10/10 would recommend for sknny guys.

>>39758265
very good gains brah. what did you do for abs?

>The weird low bar squat, the extremely low volume, the imbalanced exercises (only 1x5 dead, no rowing/chinups at all).
I could point out your errors in your post bit I'll simply call you an idiot.

>>39758283
Literally nothing, i've had abs since before puberty. But i don't use a belt for lifting so i guess that works the core a bit.

>>39758265
I want to believe.

>>39758265
why cut picture above shoulders? afraid that people will see your overdeveloped traps from steroids?

this shit wasn't natty on SS because SS doesn't have the upperbody volume needed to produce such physique. even if you did both bench and OHP every day i still wouldn't believe it.

especially in 7 months from that base. who are you trying to kid?

>>39758316
kek not in this universe, sorry m8

>>39758299
lucky bastard. god shafted me in the calves and abs department.

or maybe i've just been bulking for too long.

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>>39758331
look at jelly-mcgee over here. Literally have 0 traps.

>>39758348
i'm not the one lying and in desperate need of compliments from strangers

>>39757339
If you're short on chin-ups, don't worry, it's probably because you're a bit flabby.

>>39758244
>and you've yet to discredit my point that 1 plate on a 5ft bar is different to 1 plate on a 7ft bar. you better know what you're lifting if you find all the 7ft bars taken one day.
Then I'll make sure to just post the data with the 7ft bar. Are you so autistic that you have to post your lifting data after every workout or why is this so important if you used the bar that weights half a kilo less once?

>Why is spouting a higher number that provides no additional information an ego thing hmmm?

See, I don't brag with my 'total lifted weight' online, because I'm not an austistic powerlifting faggot that probably also counts the safety clips to seem super hardcore with that high number. I put a plate on each side when OHPing? I lift fucking 1pl8 or 40kg - everyone immediately knows how much it is, how many plates I added, everyone else can easily compare it and that's it.

Literally the only people I've ever met irl that count the bar are bragging curlfags that are all like 'wooow breh I bench 100kg I swear, I'm sooo sick' and then you see them putting 2pl8s on each side.

>>39758359
Sure whatever buddy, if you send me the cost (26 dollars) for a drugtest ill do how many as you want every month. Just because your doing some shitas brosplit and get no results doesnt mean everyone else is doing drugs.
"Everyone smaller than me are DYELS and anyone bigger is doing roids"

>>39758377
i've been lifting for about 7 years and i've never met anyone halfway strong who doesn;t include the bar, it;s relevant information.

hard as i try, i can't see why you seem to have this massive chip in your shoulder over something this innane. if that works for you, fine, but suggesting that its egotistical to report that you lift, ya know, what you actually lift, is profoundly retarded.

Why are you two fighting? Some programs work for some and not for others. Find what works for you. It's not that hard.

>>39758402
>it;s relevant information
It's not. At all. But I see, you're the guy ordering pizza with dough. Fine if that makes you feel special - nobody will think you're impressive for lifting the bars weight like everyone that ever walked into a gym.

>>39758497
What the fuck dude? You ALWAYS count the bar and it's ALWAYS counted in competition because you are lifting THE BAR plus the weights. By your logic when you are starting out you are lifting 0 because that's how much the bar weighs according to you.

>>39758509
Learn to read. I never said that you don't lift it. I said it's absolutely trivial to count it when comparing. We compare what we change, which is the weight on the bar. Again, that's why we say 1pl8, 2pl8, 3pl8, etc. Because that's how much we put on the fucking bar.
Or are you the guy that puts 10kg on each side and then claims to have a 1pl8 OHP?

>m-muh competition weight
This is a bavarian sausage sommelier forum, not a powerlifting competition. Also it is widely agreed that powerlifiting is the most autistic sport ever.

Nobody will complement you here for lifting the device that everyone lifts in this sport and nobod will complement you for eating the pizza WITH ALL THE DOUGH BECAUSE I ATE IT DUUHH!!!

>>39753947

PERFECT

>>39758573
It's not just in powerlifting but in Oly lifting as well and also by every lifter ever. You lift the weight you lift plus 20 kg which is the bar.

>>39758585
Stop responding to this fucking bait lmao. It's been a meme for newfags since forever.

>>39753801
So how would you get a 6'2 130 lbs aushwitz mode guy stronger?

>>39758678
GOMAD+GVT+good food

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>>39753920
It refers to the number of full 45lb/20kg plates on either side of the bar when performing the main 4 lifts.

Strict Press (no help from legs) with 1 full plate on either side of the bar (135 lbs)
Bench Press with 2 plates (225 lbs)
Squat with 3 plates (315 lbs)
Deadlift with 4 plates (405 lbs)

Being able to do all 4 of these is a good baseline for male strength. Doing them for reps is even better.
Some people struggle with one over the other, which is why it’s good to do all 4. I had 1 and 2 easily when I started, worked to get 3, and am still chasing 4. Only got up to 365.

>>39757000
GOMAD isn't recommended to beginners because unless you're a complete skeleton you're just going to get fat. GOMAD is strictly for people who are very underweight and need any and all weight they can gain.

>>39759079
You know what I meant.

>>39756206
Do you actually expect me to read?

>>39756951

you dont need volume work as a novice you are a dumb dyel

Would adding incline bench after regular benching be helpful with progressing on the bench and press? Also should I throw in a calf exercise somewhere?

>>39757639

i replaced powercleans with yates row and it didnt really impact me until recently (high 300s on dl)

the "true" alternative to powerclean is dynamic effort deadlifts which are talked about in the context of texas method. which is basically 12x1 deadlifts at 60% 5rm that you rip off the ground as hard as possible with 60s breaks between each

dont bother with until youre youre having to deload in the high 300s imo but they seem effective

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>>39757339
yeah, me neither. How much do you weigh? I am at around 155lbs atm, started at 143lbs.

Those results are probabbly meant for americans that start somewhere between 180-250lbs, since 180lbs is already considered skinny there. Squatting 400 in 6 months would mean 2.6x of my bodyweight ... yeah sure, not gonna happen. I bet most people that can squat 400lbs in 6 months are fat fucks.

>>39759483
About 70-75kg. I'm only 5'8".

>>39753934
Finished sl with good results and moved onto Phat. 5x5 is brutal especially on squats. Hypertrophy routines are easy in comparison imo.

>>39757339
Don't feel bad anon, those numbers are utter fucking horseshit. Have a good look around your gym and tell me how many guys you see repping 405 on squats, of the entire membership there is likely only a handful of guys who can. And how many of them are natty? Fewer still. And how many of them got there in 6 months? Zero.

Here is a little example of just how delusional SSfags are. Take the average male bodyweight in the US (196lbs) and put it into strstd.com. Then in the squat section input 405x5 and it gives a 1rm of 481lbs... at this bodyweight a 498lb squat is considered 'Elite', defined as "athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level".... and this fucking faggot thinks that these are 'everyman' numbers. Pure delusion anon, pure delusion.

>>39758573
>Also it is widely agreed that powerlifiting is the most autistic sport ever.
on 4chan it is, yeah

answer me this - what is the point in NOT counting the bar, when it only leads to confusion?

why are you so fucking retarded? do you think people count the bar because it makes them feel strong? personally, if i lift a weight, i count the bar because i lifted it. i didn;t leave it on the rack and squat 4 plates on their own - they hang on a 20kg bar, and if i lift that as well, why wouldn't i count it?

would you use 25kg plates and call that 1plate? no? because convention dictates that 1plate is 20kg plates. then why the hell are you so literally autistic about the bar?

>>39759188
if you do SS without reading the book you;re shooting yourself in the foot before you even begin. don't start badly.

the book is by far the most in depth analyis of all 4 main lifts available anywhere while still being relevant to a beginner. you may think you know the form but you don;t know shit till you read SS.

>>39757924
there is a point for me
It's immediately transparent to me how many plates I put on the bar without having to subtract 20kg first

it was stupid of me to post stats without bar though I admit that

>>39754241
>Come hang out in the /plg/ anytime friend

Aka come join a bunch of tripfags try to convert upstanding /fit/izens into twin loving faggots.

>>39754255
glorious

>>39754769
>not edgy
>also not acceptable
you're a special type of retarded, aren't you?

>>39754843
its really not difficult to understand.

newbies and sportsmen regaining strength are both fast gainers. i can't think of a better program to adapt for beginners than one intended for the quick re-gaining of sportsmen.

it doesn't matter that it evolved from starr's. it works.

>>39760013
I'm not autistic enough to read a book about proper weight lifting form.

>>39761296
if you take that attitude, fine, great, but don't expect to get anywhere significant if you can't even be bothered to read the most basic, stripped to the bones book about barbell training, centred around the program you wil be doing, no less.

you can squat objects up and down as many times as you like but you need to treat lifting with a certain degree of respect if you want to go anywhere with it. maybe you'll be afraid of thinking yourself autistic for comitting to something that way but you're only shooting yourself in the foot and i suggest you don;t even bother starting to save yourself the disappointment

>>39761296
if you wanted to get better at fixing cars would you say it was autistic to read a book about fixing cars? get real lmao.

>>39761319
>>39761343
>reading words in a book will make me stronger

>squat 3 times a week
>ohp and bench alternate
Gee i wonder why
its simple math
I did it and am now a trex
Just do all main barbell lifts 2 times a week for more balance
also add some accessories in the end and there u have it
SS 2.0

>>39761430
>knowing correct form, programming and nutrition won't put me in a position to get stronger

>>39761525
>I have a small penis.

>>39761343
Nope I'd ask a guy who I know is an expert then attempt it myself

>>39761606
whatever dude. doesn't affect me at all, its your loss and no one else's. all i'm saying.

>>39761606
>>39761720
This. Why the fuck do you care how little his babydick is?? You gonna try to fuck him or what who fucking cares?? I often hear that people with small penises tend to go on to live perfectly normal lives. Hell, the average penis length is 5 inches (and that's not even taking lying into account. He has nothing to be ashamed of. And on top of that he could be a grower and not a shower. What other people in a gym or theater shower might see as a small penis might actually get quite large when erect.

>>39761645
get a coach then

>>39761521
Not too long ago on this board t-rex mode was the goal

thanks /fit/

>>39761923
My squat is fine though