I have just begun the keto diet. Have I done the right thing?

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>>39566157

>ketosis

>>39566157
haha meem carb the fuck up

If you are keen on developing various chronic and potentially fatal illnesses and losing all your athletic performance, yes.

>>39566167
He said keto, not vegan.

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>>39566157
>falling for the keto meme

>>39566157
ahh yes the stinkman bacon lard diet

>>39566157
Double your vegtable intake, drink lemon water, do fasting, try and do your workouts in the morning, supplement vitamins you are missing out on.

Its a decent diet for short term, but I'd be hesitant to do it for anytime longer than a month without a plan from a Doctor and Dietician (not a nutritionist)

>>39566157

Depends. Are you fat or diabetic? Then yes.

>>39566157
good on you OP. You're doing the right thing. Drop the processed carbs, eat lots of good fat, good protein, veggies and you'll be blown away by the results. Not hard to stick to at all, and I can say that over the last two years I rarely feel hungry, shed weight, sleep like a log and have a tonne of energy. Ignore the haters.

>>39566157
ignore the doubters, keto is amazing for losing weight

The mental clarity from keto is fantastic. It's like I had brain fog my entire life, and didn't know it, but going keto is what lifted it. I don't think I can go back, familam

>>39566157
depends. are you obese, don't care about athletic performance and just want a diet that makes it easy to lose weight quickly? If so, keto might be your thing (or not, not everyone likes it)

>>39567617
Technical Keto Diet makes up for a large portion of the performance decrease, and there's a whole host of other benefits from ketosis apart from the weight loss perspective.

Yeah keto's fine. The "keto is a meme" meme shit is tired.

>>39567655
it's a pointless diet. you get the same result on other diets without all the hassle and side effects.

>>39567647
>there's a whole host of other benefits from ketosis apart from the weight loss perspective.
uh huh. name some proven benefits of keto for regular people

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>tfw can slip in and out of keto without trouble
>never went through keto flu

feels god

>>39567677
Here's the list of things covered as to the benefits of either being ketotic itself or just reducing carbs/increasing fat - just in case someone handwaves it like "oh that keto fad is just for epilepsy and fatties":
acidosis
acne
adaptation
adiponectin
advanced glycation end-products (AGEs)
aging
alzheimers
amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS)
anti-oxidants
apoliproteins (apoB, etc)
appetite regulation
atherogenic dyslipidemia
atherosclerosis
ATP
autism
bipolar disorder
blood lipids
blood pH
blood pressure
bone mineral density
brachial artery flow-mediated dilation
cachexia (wasting syndrome)
calcium
cancer
cataracts
cerebral function
cholesterol
cortisol
creatinine
CRP
cytochrome C release
diabetes
diarrhea
energy expenditure
epilepsy
fatigue
fatty liver disease
free radical formation
gall bladder and stones
GGT
glucagon
glucose trasporter 1 (GLUT-1) deficiency syndrome
glutathione
glycogen
glycolysis
glycosuria
heart disease
hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c)
homeostatis model analysis-insulin resistance (HOMA-IR)
homocysteine
hormones
hunger
Huntington's Disease
hypercapnia (elevated blood CO2)
hypercholesterolemia
hypertension
injury recovery
insulin
insulin resistance
insulin sensitivity
insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1)
insulin:glucagon ratio
irritable bowel syndrome
ischemia (blood supply restriction)
kidneys
lactate
lecithin-cholesterol acyltransferase (LCAT)
leptin
LH/FSH ratio
liver
medication
metabolic syndrome
migraines
mood stability
muscle wasting
NADH
narcolepsy
nerve agent survivability
neuroprotection
organ function/failure
osteoporosis
oxidative stress
pain sensitivity
Parkinson's Disease
performance
polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS)
schizophrenia
stroke
testosterone
uric acid
Oh yeah, and:
weight loss

>>39566157
I'm skinny fat gonna try that, will I be lean then bulky or what?

>>39567723
>>39567677

If you need sources for any of these, they can be found here:
http://ketopedia.com/principia-ketogenica/book.php#references

Id read The ketogenic diet by lyle mcdonald before attempting to do it.
So many people think keto is only eat less than x carbs and fill your calorie target with protein fat

Keto burns has a worse muscle:fat loss ratio than just regular cutting

I started keto about 3 months ago intending just to get into single digit BF. I ended up liking the mental benefits (overall positive mood these days) and stable energy level. There was a noticeable performance dip in the beginning, but I'm performing better than before (could mostly be from my training progression of course). I'm mostly fit from my sport, I don't lift heavy, just body weight shit when I'm not in the water. It probably wouldn't make sense if you're trying to get real big and strong as keto is shit for bulking, but I've been able to maintain low body fat without the shitty parts of when I would do a standard cut (low libido, headaches, moodiness, always hungry, low energy, no motivation). It all depends on your goals and where you're at. I'm thinking about cycling carbs in sometime soon but I really never had a taste for carbs in the first place which is why I decided to give keto a shot. The other reason was to quit drinking alcohol daily.
Make sure to take your electrolytes and get enough fiber and greens. Don't use keto as an excuse to eat like shit, you'll just enforce your bad habits.

>>39567756
Funny shit, more than half of the references on that first image are already from known shills (Volek, Mozafarrian, Manninen (an overweight supplement salesman) etc.), most of which run or are involved in keto-pushing businesses and sell diet books to gullible fat retards.

Keto is the funniest scam ever, it's like a post-ironic distillation of American idiocy and obesity combined.

>>39567723
Woah brahs, an empty buzzword salad. It must be legit!

>>39567756
See >>39567756
for references.

>>39568055
Give evidence and sources to the contrary, then. Show me some science that says that it fucks up your system or is ineffective. I would love to go back to eating carbs and sugars again, but I haven't convinced myself, and nobody else has convinced me that it is worth it compared to the benefits I recieve from being keto. I gave you sources and concrete science that you can look up on PubMed, right now, why don't you give me something?

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>>39567556
Type 1 diabetic here, keto diet is potentially fatal for us, more so than non diabetics

>>39567723
Then why doesn't a single clinical study or piece of evidence exist to support any of those claims?

Could it be because that's marketing bullshit?

You also listed diabetes and weight loss- the keto diet has been confirmed as potentially fatal to the former and having no affect when controlled against simple calorie restriction on the latter

tl;dr you fell for marketing and bullshit instead of using google and looking at actual data for 5 minutes

>>39568392
I think you're confusing Keto Acidosis from the diabetes with regular Ketosis, which doesn't involve kidney failure, or the dangerously low ph drop.
https://www.clinicalkey.com/#!/content/playContent/1-s2.0-S0899900714003323?returnurl=null&referrer=null

http://dmsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1758-5996-4-23

>>39568348
>>39568055
Eh, keto has basis on real science, the reason it's called a meme diet is fatties use it as an excuse to eat terribly and wonder why they balloon back when they get off it. 90% of the keto sites out there are mom blogs with recipes to emmulate junk food and desserts. Sure you'll get skinny and eat great tasting shit but the most effective way to change your body is with lifestyle change. Plus cooking like that is a hassle. You can eat whole and nutritious foods and stay in ketosis making it godlike for a cut. I get most of my protein from fish, my fats from coconut oil, olive oil and a whole bunch of nuts and seeds and avocado, and carbs from leafy and carniferous greens.

>>39568441
I'm not, it's potentially fatal because your liver produces sugars indirectly from carbohydrates, throughout the day. If you eat extremely restricted carbs your liver has trouble producing enough sugars to keep your brain and other bodily functions going (which is why keto diet has the famous 2 weeks of feeling like shit). Non diabetics can suffer through this but us diabetics are just putting ourselves at greater risk

>>39568479
Meant cruciferous not carniferous lol.

>>39568485

Indeed. It's like exercise is potentially fatal for fatties because their heart gives out.

If you're not diabetic or have other medical conditions, keto is safe.

You can monitor your blood glucose and ketone levels if you are extremely cautious, but you'll see you'll never get into dangerous ranges.

>>39568348
Well, virtually every expert body on nutrition on the planet advises against low-carbohydrate diets and promotes restricting intake of total and saturated fat, animal protein and often cholesterol, and maximizing fiber, fruits and vegetables intake. This is an overwhelming international consensus based on decades of research and experience, not something that can or should be supported with some PubMed links.

It takes more than a list of inherently biased references to overturn such a scientific consensus, especially when the proposed alternative is the exact opposite (eating a shitload of fat and animal protein and no fruits at all). To deny that keto is harmful is to deny all of mainstream nutritional science, and is basically the nutritional equivalent of denying global warming.

I truly doubt that any significant portion of those who claim benefits on a keto diet have ever eaten a balanced, healthy diet that is 100% in line with nutritional guidelines. Such a diet would be relatively low in fat and quite high in carbohydrates from whole plant foods, which is what people in the second and third world eat where many first world health problems like diabetes and cardiovascular disease are rare to nonexistent.

>>39568485
To my understanding, though, a ketogenic diet was the only treatment for Type-1 diabetes before insulin came into the mix? Also, I couldn't find any literature on this liver problem resulting in low-carb, and the brain makes its own glucose via gluconeogenesis... I did do some looking into whether there was a populous of Type-1 Diabetics doing keto, and reddit popped up with plenty of T1Ds saying that keto was a great idea, so I don't know if this liver problem from a low-carb diet is as severe as you've been lead to believe.

>>39568544
>global warming

It's called climate change now because the globe isn't actually warming up.

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>>39568542
Now you're just objecting for the sake of being right

You're wrong, deal with it.

>You can monitor your blood glucose and ketone levels if you are extremely cautious, but you'll see you'll never get into dangerous ranges.

I do, and did while on keto. In fact it's most of the reason I stopped. It's particularly bad in relation to exercise

The fact you're promoting it as safe for us tells me all I need to know- that you're 100% full of shit and don't care about any evidence which might go against your presumptions

>>39568574
>To my understanding, though, a ketogenic diet was the only treatment for Type-1 diabetes before insulin came into the mix?
Yes, in combination with extreme calorie restriction and it was fatal more often than not.

Also the liver produces glucose rather than sugars like I stated, which may help you google, I was typing fairly quickly.

Yeah, reddits /r/diabetes is actually where I heard about and tried keto- but less cited and known is that the liver produces glucose during many exercises, particularly strength training or anything involving muscles, presumably to feed the muscles in the same way taking dextrose (glucose) would.

In short, my answer is that low carb diets are fantastic for diabetics, but the keto diet definitely is not because it's on the bat-shit insane side of carb restriction which results in more problems than benefits for us, some potentially fatal.

I'm also of the opinion that 99% of people who try the keto diet don't actually try the keto diet- they don't restrict carbs and are not disciplined about it nearly enough to qualify.

>>39568544
What are the detriments to low carb diets though? Cite a source for me to read and understand. The keto diet still involves vegetables, fiber and some fruit such as berries, and it is very possible to meet nutritional requirements.

Keto adaptation causes Saturated fats to be the most favorable fats to be converted into ketones, so no they won't clog your arteries, dietary cholesterol barely moves the needle on bodily cholesterol, and Japan's Health Department openly stated that there isn't enough scientic consensus around dietary cholesterol being bad: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/02/20/world/science-health-world/diet-guide-drops-cholesterol-warning/, and people doing the keto diet have to limit their protein intake since 56% of it is converted into glucose, I make sure not to go above a 1:1 ratio which is the staple behind this entire mongolian noodle trading website.

I mean, speaking for myself, man, ketosis feels good. Level mood, steady supply of energy without any crashes, and my systolic BP has dropped 17 points.

>>39568743
>that pic

Taken by you?

>>39568751
>What are the detriments to low carb diets though?
Less nutrition is the biggest

Potatoes, many starchy vegetables like beetroot, most grains, dairy and many other sources of carbs are fantastic sources of many important nutrients and minerals which aren't easy to find without them.

http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php is a great place to get actual data and solid information on healthy diet

>>39568737
Actually calling is "climate change" rather than global warming was primarily a decision by US politicians looking to downplay the dangers to the planet in order to avoid passing legislation that could hurt business short-term, because they thought "global warming" sounded too threatening, like we actually should be doing something to stop it. It has nothing to do with the science

>>39568743
>The fact you're promoting it as safe for us

If with us you mean diabetics, I'm not doing that.
I'm explicitly saying it's safe if you're NOT a diabetic.
It's safe for healthy people and even for pre-diabetics.

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>>39568737
>the globe isn't actually warming up.
>All scientists, climatologists, weather people and governments are in a massive conspiracy and me, a guy in a basement on 4chan is the only person who's right

It takes a special level of incomprehension to believe this nonsense these days. Hell, it took quite a lot of stupidity even back in the 60s

>>39568801
You aren't wrong, the keto diet does have a few holes in filling micro nutrient gaps, but nuts, avocados, kale, spinach, cauliflower, and the rest of the keto-friendly micronutrient-dense foods help pick up the slack. Along with a good multivitamin, which everyone should take regardless of their diet and lifestyle, you've got all bases covered.

I'm not saying the foods you mentioned aren't good, and sometimes superior sources of nutrients, but I am saying that if a keto diet is done correctly, you don't have a lack of nutrition. The only thing I personally worry about, is the lack of antioxidants I get, which are found mostly in fruits and vegetables, some of which I don't eat. So I make sure to get my antioxidants from other sources, mostly from teas.

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>>39568392
Holy fuck that's awesome. Going to print and hang those bad boys up. Thanks.

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Low calorie diets make me feel irritable and hungry all the time.

Keto gives me mental clarity and I can eat in a way that satiates me.

It may not be the ONLY way to cut fat, just the most enjoyable.

>>39566157

It works to control hunger. An ECA stack is more effective, imo

>>39566157
>>39569148

Although I do fucking love coconut. It's nice having 3 trees in my yard. The mango tree is the real star of the show, however.

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>>39568868
I'm type 1 and very healthy, it's still not safe for me.
No ball.

>>39569056
Once again, keto has been shown in multiple clinical studies NOT to lower bodyfat nor weight when controlled against simple calorie restriction


The single worst thing about the keto diet is the amount of bullshit people come up with to promote it

>>39569241
>Once again, keto has been shown in multiple clinical studies NOT to lower bodyfat nor weight when controlled against simple calorie restriction

"Do you believe me or your own lying eyes?"

I've consumed much more calories on keto and lost fat equally or faster than a low calorie diet.

It fucking works. Try it instead of being a faggot.

>>39569342
>I believe it therefore it's right

You believe you lost weight due to keto because you went on the keto diet and lost weight, I get it. You're still 100% wrong.

You're not defying the laws of physics and 100 years of science and medicine and clinical study are not wrong.

Less calories in than out = weight loss
More calories in than out = weight gain

Anything else is bullshit, including your beliefs.

>>39569241
It's simple, calories in calories out, but the edge Ketosis has is that you use bodyfat as a fuel source much more readily. Here's some reading on keto's efficacy.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/774424

http://annals.org/aim/article/717482/effectiveness-safety-low-carbohydrate-diets

This guy some good info: http://eatingacademy.com/personal/my-quantified-self-part-i

I mean, the literature is there, but most of the studies on a ketogenic diet are relatively recent, going only as far back to the 90s.

>>39569416
Not the guy you're having a dick measuring contest with but I've done conventional cuts and keto, and keto is way easier to drop weight and not have cravings. It's more comfortable to eat at a deficit on keto.

>>39569435
No, as has been proven it uses calories at exactly the same rate when controlled against calorie restriction

>>39569439
>and keto is way easier to drop weight and not have cravings
So have I, and I agree. That's not what he's trying to say or what I'm arguing against.

>>39566157
It works if your goals involve losing fat quickly and maintaining as much muscle mass as possible in the process. When you cut out carbs, you cut out a significant amount of empty calories.

Not a great thing to keep doing for too long, though.

>>39569439
>It's more comfortable to eat at a deficit on keto
This. I barely have to count calories and instead just eat until I'm full, and when I do measure how much I'm eating it's around 1500 calories. Normally I can be eating 2500 calories and still feel hungry at the end of the day, with keto I can eat half as much and feel more full.

worked for me
a diet consisting only of bacon, cheese, chicken, tuna and water
(and daddy's helper, amphetamines)

I was aushwitz in months

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>>39569416
Yes I've done both, they both work but keto makes you feel less shitty. Science is frequently wrong in fitness.

Try both and see how you feel a lot less miserable on keto.

And calories in, calories out has been proven as moronically simplistic by much more knowledgeable people than either of us.

>>39569630
Probably should add some leafy greens in there to avoid crazy nutritional deficiencies.

>>39569757
And berries and seeds as well, just in moderation.

>>39567723
>Huntington's Disease
...is a genetic disease.

>>39569838
Personally I think "hormones" is the most retarded on the list. It's so fucking vague, no doctor would ever list that as one category of benefits. I don't even think keto is bad, just that list is retarded.

>>39569645
Calories in calories out has been repeatedly and more or less undeniably proven correct though.

I mean if you get those calories by eating an entire cake at 9am you'll feel shitty for the rest of the day, but so long as more energy goes out than goes in, you lose weight.

I've never tried keto but i lost around 60lbs with psmf in 5 months (i still ate carbs every 2 weeks), i'm currently on the 5th day of my second cycle which will hopefully get me to the low 200s before march.

I never understood why keto is so much more popular than psmf, it's pretty much keto with just lean proteins and green veggies allowed. I guess americans need their bacon and butter

>>39567556

>diabetic
>eating keto

Diabetes is a risk factor for heart disease. Eating the most heart unhealthy diet there is makes it a double whammy.

>>39569838
What they're saying is the a ketogenic diet can attenuate the demylination of your neurons, and supply energy to the neurons in a more thermodynamically favorable way which can offset the cognitive and motor damage done from this demylination.
http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fnins.2012.00033/full
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21501628
http://www.neurorexia.com/2013/03/24/brain-livin-on-ketones-a-molecular-neuroscience-look-at-the-ketogenic-diet/

>>39570014
Here's an info-graphic showing how healthy fats have been associated with increased testosterone levels. Of course this isn't exclusive to the ketogenic diet, but I try to get my fats from butter, olive oil, and avocados which are among the better ones

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>>39570014
Woops, forgot the graphic

>>39570571
What is this? Regression for ants?

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>>39570606
I just noticed how it was a bit fun-sized, here's another one.

>>39570638
Shit I give up. It's showing how larger amounts of saturated and monounsaturated fats (butter, olive oil) per pound of body weight correlates with higher serum testosterone, while higher polyunsaturated fat intake had a correlated decrease in serum testosterone.

>>39570571
Makes sense, my point is that the list just saying "hormones" is retarded, it also says testosterone. If it said something like "increased levels of testosterone" I'd see it as more legit, but just saying it improves "testosterone" and "hormones" is like a banker telling you that a certain plan is good because "money" without further explanation.

>>39570638
>trying to be smart but looking retarded instead

Maybe you should workout at the library

>>39570745
You're right, it's a lot to explain, that's for sure. I think what is meant by the "Hormones" is brushed on in this article I read,
> "There’s a reason neuroscientists and neurologists still haven’t figured out why keto is so effective in treating epilepsy. Holistically, the body is now running in a different metabolic state with changes in hormone levels (to say the least) which influences the nervous system. Locally, the brain is running on 3 types of semi interchangeable ketone bodies, the effects of which often can’t be teased apart. Hence it’s hard to say whether specific molecular and cellular alterations observed clinically or experimentally in animal models are a direct effect of ketosis, or simply a secondary phenomenon. Nevertheless, several hypotheses have been put forward to explain keto’s neuroprotective effects."

My thought is that the ketotic state is one similar to the ketosis of starvation, and the production of hormones is altered accordingly as if to prepare for starvation, this is just me handwaving and speculating, though, your guess is as good as mine.

>>39570661

That's taken from this way-too-frequently cited study http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49.long

They logged epidemiological data for a population of 12 men relating dietary fat and protein to testosterone. They didn't test the effect of diet on hormones directly, and the sample size is ridiculously small for a study like this. Unsurprisingly, the lead author (Jeff Volek) is also a long-time Atkins shill. Regardless, even if it weren't so heavily flawed, it's not a study that looks at ketogenic diets' effects on hormone levels, so there's no reason to cite it anyway.