/ssg/ - Starting Strength General

rows build the back muscles
power clean builds fuck all

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>>39145531
>hips
>core
>traps
its an explosive version of a deadlift, thats like saying pendlay rows are worthless, just do bentover rows instead

>>39145531
>>39145520
power cleans build power which is essential if you are playing ANY sport

>>39145637
Are rows better over all? they dont target legs as much but I do squats so I should be fine right?

I do rows instead of power cleans because my right wrist pops during the 'jerk' motion.

For some reason, my wrists flare a bit during the end of an upward row. I am horribly confused as to why because as far as I can tell, my form is spot-on but now that I type this, maybe my elbows should be out a little wider and not tucked back as much.

If I only do rows, I wont have to do dead lifts right?

>>39145799
Not true, Deadlifts work glutes, hamstrings, lower back, upper back, traps, etc - basically everything.

Rows work primarily your lats depending on what kind you do.

You need both.

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>all these faggots not doing the program

>>39145816
I do squats as well though, does this matter?

>>39145833
>implying you can't tweak SS with minimal knowledge of programming and lifting
>implying the best program isn't one you will stick to
>implying you even lift

WE GOT A LIVE ONE BOYS

>>39145839
Well, both beginner programs include Squats + Deadlifts, and SS includes Power Cleans over Rows.

So you need both squats and deads. But you can choose between PC or Rows.

Also this applies to beginners, if you have intermediate lifts you start to look at another program.

>>39145520
i follow the sean 9mm SS program. and it recommends doing pendley rows in its stead. i dont actually do the cleans because it is a technical lift and i dont want to hurt myself. either way, simply go to the gym and lift.

What should my foot position be during OHP?

>>39145851
The only reason why I started lifting about 2 months ago was to lose weight faster

I started dieting and shit for 4 months and lost 40 pounds

I'm not seriously into building muscle until I hit goal weight and I cant lift that much anyways I bench press 140 pounds so I would say I am an beginner

I think maybe I'll incorporate it, but I honestly cant see why

>>39145866
same as the squat

>>39145876
So basically shoulder-width?

>>39145876
NO

>>39145882
yeah or just outside it

whatever is comfortable, as long as you don't have one foot forward or anything

>>39145867
>I'm not seriously into building muscle until I hit goal weight

This is a little silly, just build the muscle WHILE you lose the fat, then it will be more pronounced that you have lose weight.

Also take into account muscle is denser than fat, so your scale may not be too accurate during this process.

Also, I know you don't want to hear this, but re-read the part of the sticky referring to weightlifting and fat loss.

>>39145897
Okay. Works for me. Also, should my knees be locked or slightly bent?

How does a calisthenics workout compare to a traditional gym one. The thought of having to interact with people gives me anxiety.

I have been doing 5/3/1 for two cycles now, and like the progress I'm seeing on the big lifts. Yet I still feel like I'm not doing enough with the accessory lifts. What would you guys recommend on each of the days?

>>39145910
Not him but I'm doing SS on a cut. Lifts have stalled at 40/60/90/100 kg all 3x5 while cutting heavy
I'm 5'10 80kgs. Goal is 70. There is only so much u can lift while cutting.

>>39145910
>just build the muscle WHILE you lose the fat
I'm definitely getting gains, it's just that my body fat percentage is a bit high so I'm working that out, been doing keto recently and I got to a point where I was losing a pound a day

I understand that I am to eat more calories for more gains, makes sense, but for me to lose fat, I have to eat less calories

confusing as fuck

This is embarrassing but I only do about 3-4 exercises each time due to time because I have a partner

So the only things I do FOR NOW are

squats, bench press, rows and sometimes the rope thing and leg press

>re-read the part of the sticky referring to weightlifting and fat loss.

god damn it, alright

I know what I'm doing isnt optimal for muscle mass, but it's optimal for fat loss which is what I'm focusing on for now

Hey guys

So I'm in my 4th week of SL. Enjoying it quite a bit so far...I have some questions though in regards to form and stuff I guess.

Start with rows: how much am I supposed to feel them during the workout? I'm not going to lie I don't really feel them at all during, afterwards my back has a bit of a burn to it but nothing serious. I try to stay as parallel as possible and bring the bar up to my chest but I don't really feel the "pinch" in my upper back like I've heard you're supposed to. Is it a form thing?

Also: squats

How do I know if my knees are too far apart? I'm trying to focus on pushing them out but how much is too much?

also does anyone else get inne groin pain when doing squats? Today was the first time I felt it at 85lbs. It wasn't like horrible horrible but...it was there. Anyone had this?

>>39145816
>Deadlifts work lower back, upper back, traps
In the same way as standing OHP works legs.

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does SS get you the girl?

2 8 F R E E P R O G R A M S

>>39145915
You don't have to interact with people in the gym. I go headphones in and don't take them out until I finish and I'm home.

>>39145912
Locked, otherwise you are cheating using leg thrust.

>>39145992
Not at all the same thing. Heavy deadlifts will give you big traps, big lats, and a strong lower back.

OHP does basically nothing for legs if your form is right.

>>39145973
here

and i dont know whats causing it probably bad stretching

>>39146022
you're not me

Do you guys think I could hit 1/2/3/4 by June/July? My lifts are garbage right now 1.5 months in. This is where I'm at so far, started with the bar on each.

RDL: 120
Deadlift: 155
Bench: 110
OHP: 90
Squat: 105 (I have shit flexibility so this one is hard)
Bent over row: 85 (just started this a week ago)
Best plank 1:30

19, 6'1, 165lbs

>>39146144
Also 6'1 here, up to 93kg, have 1/2/2.5/3.5
The key is making sure you are eating enough and progressively overloading as often as possible.

For your squats, either get lifting shoes, or use small plates under your feet to get a more complete ROM and proper depth. This works your hamstrings and calves more.
Godspeed.

hey

I've been doing this for two months now
A
Deadlift
OHP
Dips

B
Squat
Bench
Lat pulldowns

considering switching to a PPL program to get one day for each major lift
that way I can get more accessory work for hypertrophy but still lifting heavy in squat, deadlift and bench. I'd especially like to have one full day for squats which I struggle the most with

does this make sense?

lifts are 37,5/57,5/65/95 kg for 3x5

>>39146329
Try jumping on SL, I've done it for 4 onths and have better lifts than that.

IF squatting is your weak point, a program like SS or SL has you squatting 3 times a week which will definitely help. You can add any accessories you want to these programs (see IceCream 5x5) but dedicating a day to each lift at such a beginner level is only going to slow your progress.

As always make sure you are eating enough and overloading as often as possible.

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heres my stats for 13 weeks of SS

127.5kg squat
130kg deadlift
72.5kg bench
55kg press
55kg powerclean

I'm eating as much as I can but my workouts are getting longer and tougher.

Any advice? Sleeping and eating enough btw

>>39145677
If you aren't playing a sport though rows are a pretty natural pull analogue to the benches press movement though. Personally I've done them all my lifting career instead of powercleans and its never done me any harm.

>>39145763
yup

>>39145799
No, that's pretty stupid m8 and demonstrates you don't have any real understanding of how the two lifts actually work. Learn how to do them properly and you'll realise why this is a pretty embarrassing post.

>>39146448
SS gets tough towards the end.

Typical beginners mistakes:
1. not resting enough. eventually you'll need 5-8 minutes between sets.
2. not eating enough. (no, you're not.)
3. using 2.5kg jumps on the bench and press instead of 0.5-1kg. the book is pretty clear about this, but obviously people never bother reading the book.

the book also explains how you modify the routine to squeeze out the last bit of progress from the novice routine. you've read the book, right?

>>39146010
>OHP does basically nothing for legs if your form is right.

That's bollocks though. A heavy enough OHP will be felt all through your core, your glutes and your quads. It even mentions this specifically in SS. I have good form on OHP and have literally felt my legs shake with effort as I get near my 1RM.

Your comment suggests you're either lifting with poor form and not bracing your core and lower body enough or you simply haven't lifted heavy enough to really feel it yet.

Now, it's not going to give you big strong legs like a squat will, but the weight is transmitted right down the kinetic chain through your legs. It's why a big squat helps improve your upper body exercises as well. Rip talks a lot about how improving squat in particular improves all other lifts but it seems to me too many people still don't understand or appreciate his point. Squat strengths legs, legs allow you to OHP/bench more, squat also indirectly strengthens upper body.

>>39145897
>just outside it

How fucking wide do you stand for OHP?

You should just be at a natural stance for OHP basically. Hip width or shoulder width at max. Any more is just retarded. You don't need to sumo stance for OHP ffs.

>>39147489
Yeah I have it. He talks about micro loading and I'm on the advanced program of SS so you only deadlift once a week

>>39145520
Power cleans are a good assistance to the deadlift (which gets difficult to train 3x a week pretty fast) as they allow you to put max effort into a pulling movement in a way that isn't going to completely blast your ass.

They serve a pretty important function inkeeping your power current with your strength as it increases. Power is pretty much always going to be limited to a portion of your total strength, but the ability to display it can lag behind total strength if you don't specifically train it. If you're doing any power dependent sports (all contact sports, throwing sports, Weightlifting, and even some others like rowing etc) then they're probably the second most important lift after squats.

Rows are fundamentally different - they're a back accessory exercise for intermediate or higher lifters that really don't need to be included in a novice program (especially to the exclusion of cleans.) not saying they're a bad exercise for what they're meant to do, but they're by no means a substitute for cleans, and shouldn't be taken as such.

>>39146144
Short answer: yes.

Slighty longer answer:
Lets assume we're aiming for mid next year, so we'll just ballpark it at approx 30 weeks between now and the goal date.

OHP requires 45lb = 1.5lb a week. At this level, that's easy.
BP requires 115lb = ~4lb a week, at this level, very easy.
Squat requires 210lb = ~7lb a week, once again, totally achievable for this strength level.
Deadlift requires 250lb = ~8.5lb a week, this one will perhaps be a bit tricky if you've got shit grip like me, my squat and deadlift are worryingly close to converging. As long as you get out ahead of any grip issues, this is a very reasonable progress.

All of this assumes you're going to break out of the hungry skelly mode. If you put on a shade over 1lb \ week (read: a fairly conservative bulk for a light and tall guy like yourself) you'll be approx. 200lb at 6"1' doing 1/2/3/4 after around 7-8 months training, all of which is about right.

The one exercise I wished I had started earlier was shrugs, because great grip work, and also juicy neck, so take that as you will.

For what it's worth, I'm the same height, about 200lb, currently on 50kg OHP, 80kg BP, 137.5kg Squat (3pl8 on saturday, huzzah), and 150kg DL
All weights are for somewhere from 5-8 reps depending on AMRAP success of the day.

Just finished my 7th week of strict training after about a month of building up some base via retarded "I didn't do my homework" type training.

I recently started running SL and I feel like I just hit a wall. I worked out Monday and everything was easy, only needed the 90 second rest but yesterday I needed the full 3 minutes every set. Usually I get all my compounds done in 30 minutes but last night took about 50. This normal? Felt so easy up until now.

>>39145841
>implying swapping cleans for rows is using 'knowledge of programming'
>being so much of a pansy that having to take 2 seconds to learn the powerclean is enough to stop you from 'sticking to the programme'
>implying you even lift

>>39145973
>also does anyone else get inne groin pain when doing squats? Today was the first time I felt it at 85lbs. It wasn't like horrible horrible but...it was there. Anyone had this?

I had problems with this when I first started squatting. At first it was really bad, like sharp pain right where my leg meets my groin. I'm pretty sure it was a hip impingement that was causing it cause it was too sharp a pain to have been anything else I reckon. I also have problems every now and then where I'm walking and a similar pain just spontaneously occurs and I need to kind of do a twist thing to pop it back into place and the pain just disappears instantly. I'm sure it's the same problem causing it.

I fixed it by first of all taking a break from squatting to let it heal. I stupidly tried to squat through it at first thinking it would fix itself just by stretching as I squatted, but no it got worse to the point it was pretty agonising. So I stopped for a few weeks. When I started again it was OK for a while but then it came back again. So I stopped again and started stretching and stuff, I found stretching hip flexors, that stretch where you sit like a monk and press down on your knees to stretch your groin, lunge type stretches etc all helped. Also do 3rd world squats through the day and just sit in it for a while. Try to relax into it. When I came back I narrowed my squat stance as well to pretty much just inside shoulder width. This all fixed the problem and over time my squat stance has gone back to normal with no issues. No pain at all now for a good long time. Not had that issue where I'm walking either so I think it's gone for good hopefully. Hope that helps bro.

>>39146448
As you near the end of SS you'll end up taking abominably long rests especially between squat sets - I was having to take 12. This is because your work sets are getting close to being ACTUAL five rep maxes as you neuromuscular system is now a lot more efficient and your body can't adapt to stress as easily
As it could at the start.

You should be able to get to the low 300s on squat (in lubbs) before you need to move on - maybe even further. Do you have a copy of Practical Programming? There's a section in it which outlines what's effectively a tapering method to get a little more out of it.

>>39145915
Go before 3pm or after 9pm and you likely won't have to interact with anybody at all. Like the other anon said, just put your headphones in and get in your zone. First time you go, go right after they open or right before they close, that way almost no one is there, then scope the place out, get a feel for where everything is, get comfortable and a mental picture of the whole area.

Calisthenics are objectively inferior for muscle and strength growth. It is harder to achieve consistent progressive overload, with free weights you just add weight to the bar, with calis, you have to learn weird variations and shit. Also, people who do calisthenics look weird as fuck, they tend to have underdeveloped traps, glutes, legs, and sometimes shoulders, all of which are important to building a nice physique. Also, in my personal opinion, free weights are 10 times as fun. Calisthenics are boring, and the last thing you want to be is bored. Adding weight to your lifts every week with free weights feels fucking awesome. The sweet sensation of a PR is unbeatable. But with calisthenics its like "oh great I did 20 pullups instead of 19." Eh. Hope I answered your question.

>>39145973
With the rows, concentrate on bring your shoulder blades together, a good cue is to try and pull the weight all the way up while bending your elbows as little as possible. act like there is a string tied to your elbow and someone is pulling it up.

For squats, they should feel natural. Go check out jonnie canditos videos on how to squat, then go to the gym and practice with the empty bar til it feels good. Also when you're at home, pop a squat every once in a while to see what feels natural.

>>39147506
Don't be a memer, ohp does nothing for legs. Your legs don't move at all during the movement. You will be flexing your legs to hold the weight, yes, but that doesn't mean anything. At best it is 1% as effective for leg development as a squat.

>>39147589
>in lubbs
I've been saying this in my head since I was a kid. I just never questioned it. Why the fuck do we abbreviate it like that?

>>39147677
>Your core muscles — abs, lower back, glutes, and upper thighs — have to be strong and stable to do a standing press with good form.
>Standing presses are better than seated, since they involve more stabilizing muscles and contribute to core strength and stability. They also offer less spinal compression, making them a better choice for those with a history of lower-back pain.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/bodybuildings-forgotten-muscle-builder

I'm not saying it'll give you massive tree trunk legs on its own, that's the squats and DLs job, but it hits your legs, quads in particular. You might not like that for some reason I don't understand but it doesn't make it any less true. A heavy enough OHP needs your legs to be strong and doing work or you won't be able to do. Period.

>>39147677
Also,
>Don't be a memer, ohp does nothing for legs. Your legs don't move at all during the movement. You will be flexing your legs to hold the weight, yes, but that doesn't mean anything.

What are isometric exercises...

https://www.t-nation.com/training/isometrics-for-mass

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I've been doing ss for about 7 months now. Im getting a little bored of the program, at what point should I switch it up? I was thinking of doing PHUL or PHAT, does anyone have experience with these routines? I'd like to do something with a little more volume and frequency.

6' 185
Working sets are
OHP 55k
BP 1.5plate
S 2 plate
DL 3 plate

>>39147842
Switch off it when you can no longer make linear gains. That means when you plateau for at least three sessions, deload and work back up to that weight, and can't get by it after another three sessions.

You'll usually find squat and DL are ready to transition first and I'd suggest switching them to a Texas Method style of progression for a while until you've exhausted your bench and OHP progression as well.

As for routines after SS, I personally did TM first but found it incredibly boring. I then dabbled with 5/3/1 but the progression is pretty slow tbqh. I'd say 5/3/1 is more of an advance intermediate/advanced routine personally.

Right now I'm doing Candito's 6 Week routine and loving it. 10/10 would recommend and I'm seeing better gains on it than I've seen on any program I've tried yet. Especially in the upper body, as it is pretty high on upper body volume. It's free on the Candito training HQ website so I'd suggest checking it out at least. The pdf that comes with it is a good little read too.

Never done PHUL or PHAT so can't say either way, although I see people say good things about them on here.

>>39147690
It's from latin, "libra".
oz is from old italian, "onza"

Is SS advanced novice ok?
I feel like I run myself to the ground with 3x week squat. Here are my stats and my squat has been stalling hard:

What should I do?

75kg BW
95kg 3x5 Highbar
140kg 1x5 DL
52.5kg 3x5 OHP
70kg 3x5 Bench

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>>39147777
>>39147793
>using T-nation as evidence.

WOWEE

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>>39147555
>implying powercleans are useful for anything but cleaning power
>implying SS is even a good program compared to Reg Parks/Stronglifts
>implying you even lift

You don't even know how to change up your program.
Confirmed for T-Rex mode.
Confirmed for idolizing Rippletits.
Confirmed pleb.

I'm totally stuck on 75kg bench press. The fuck is up with this. I followed program to the letter and did everything correct. My other lifts are great compared to my bench. Someone care to help?

>>39147907
I've plateau on squat and DL twice now and BP once. Deloaded both times and worked back up setting new prs. I'm stuck at 3plste DL because of grip reasons and I'm supposed to go up next session on squat. Next plateau I'll look into new programming. Never heard of this candito routine but I'm going to read up on it. Thanks bro, may your lifts be heavy and your gains huge

>>39148099
bench more

but seriously, try 3x8 at 90% for a few days, then try to progress more, make sure you activate the pec and your form is good. eat plenty and do some push ups in your spare time. sleep plenty.

if this isn't working, find your sticking point and do half reps from there with 90-100%

>>39148136
Will do that.

Can you explain the sticking point.

>>39148087
>implying powercleans are useful for anything but cleaning power
this is as true as saying "squats only make you stronger at squatting" or "pressing can only making you stronger at pressing"

>implying SS is even a good program compared to Reg Parks/Stronglifts
kek

>You don't even know how to change up your program.
you think you're a programming genius now because you think swapping pc's for rows is a good idea?

troll harder.

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>>39148081
>just talking shit on 4chan and expecting people to buy your shit on your say so alone

OK bruh.

EVER SINCE I LEFT THE CITY YOU

>>39147549
What we're the working weights for each lift then and what are they now?

>>39148255
Squat from 200 to 210
Bench from 175 to 180
Row from 120 to 125
OHP 95 to 100
DL 255 to 265

FRIENDLY REMINDER

Never use the pussy pad for squats. Although you might think it's more comfortable, it's ruining your form, so just find a natural position (usually just above your rear delts). Check out a video posted by Mind Pump TV on YouTube about it, that shit if life changing

>>39145938
Don't lift on a cut expecting to make gains. Since you're still a beginner, if you eat to maintenance, you'll lose fat and yur lifts will still progress.

>>39148087
kek ss is a real program

stronglifts is just Shitpost: the Routine

>>39145945
>the rope thing and leg press
Sure doesn't sound like SS to me

>>39146144
Same goal as this anon, 1/2/3/4 by June/July. Lifts are

Deadlift: 245
Bench:135
OHP: 95
Squat:225
Power Clean: 115

22, 5'7, 178lbs

Bench and OHP are stalling, but I think it just might be not enough food. Squat and deads have gone up lately, but that's because I realized my form was shit so I deloaded to get into better form.

Also doing stretches for ATP, and I think it's working

Can I make it?

I've been lifting for about 3 months doing my own thing. (Mostly compound exercises with accessories on the side)

So far, my deadlift and squat are my best lifts. With both being a bit above 2pl8, yet my ohp and bench are shit. Not even one pl8 and I can't seem to get past this point.

I've decided I'll start SL next week since I'm doing a 4 day split right now. But my question is this: should I start off from the beginning of SL with practically just the bar and add 5 lbs every week? Or should I start at a lower weight range than what I typically do where it's still somewhat of a challenge?

I've pretty much been doing as much weight as I can on everything for my first three months and have made some decent gains. I just don't want to risk losing them from dropping my weight down to the very beginning of SL.

>>39148677
The point of SL is for basement dwellers to learn the lifts properly without a coach and groove them before hitting real weight. If done per the program you will have performed 900 squat repetitions before achieving lmao2pl8s. If your form is correct, either start of with half your current 5rm, or start with the bar and increase faster than the program calls for. Use it as a time to correct any imbalances or deficiencies in your lifts.

>>39145841
I don't think that guy implied any of those things.
Reading comprehension, fagtron.

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Been running SS for 6 weeks. I'm a 350 lb fatty at 36 years old. Weights are in pounds because USA.
Squat: 95 -> 190
Press: 70 -> 110
Bench Press: 95 -> 160
Deadlift: 135 -> 245
I do Pendlay Rows 3x5 on Bench Press days for the same weight as my Bench Press. I do Lat Pulldowns on OHP days, last set was 150 lbs for 3x8. I do workout A tonight, next workout B I'll start Powercleans. I'm doing this on a 500 calorie deficit from TDEE and 4 - 6 hours of sleep a night (demanding job, long hours). Sometimes I take a two day break between workouts because I'm old. Overall, I feel really good about my progress.

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When I do pendlay rows (actually they are bent over rows because I still can't 1pl8 so it's hard to drop weight every rep) I feel my grip and especially biceps getting tired much faster than back. I barely feel my lats after set. possible reasons:

>my form is whack
>my lats are stronger than grip/biceps (I can 2x5 2pl8 DL)
>I'm struggling to lower the weight for too long

I even tried to do lat pulldowns and some pic rel, but still feel like I'm using biceps more than lats.

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>>39147677

Maybe it doesn't build them just like squats do, but there is that thing called kinetic chain. Basically you need to brace all your muscles from feet to palm to keep weight over your head. OHP won't do much for legs hypertrophy, but will surely strengthen your whole body. There are many different types of gains, guys.

If I want to keep my twink like small frame, do I still do SS?

And what after?

>>39147842
>6' 185 2 plate squat
>doing ss for about 7 months now
What

On my 4th week of Starting Strength (but I have been doing Pendlay Rows instead of Power Cleans) and I have a few questions.

I have been doing distance running for the past year or so. I currently weigh about 140 @ 5'10" and my goal weight is no more then 160 as I plan to get back into rowing in the spring and summer and need to stay in the lightweight class.

I have been doing longer sessions of rowing machine workouts on non-lifting days.

1.) Would it be beneficial to do both Power Cleans and Rows? I was thinking of adding the PC in soon and was wondering if I should just replace the Pendlay Row or do both on the same day or neither?

2.) I work out at my schools gym and the smallest plates they have are 5lb. It seems like my OHP has stalled already. Would I benefit from doing less reps with the same weight for a while or more reps with less weight?

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How do you warmup and cooldown for SL?

>>39149343
No. SS will build you up like Zeus. You want Apollo.

>>39149671
Apollo is cool
What routine do I do to get into Apollo mode?

>attempt to place bar in correct position
>hands over shoot the bar and its locked in by my wrists
>trying to force my hands into position moves the bar upwards
What do /fit/?

>>39149459
1) power movements are generally beneficial as a sports accessery

2) use ankle weights for micro weights, or; lift the same weight until it's "easy", or; add reps until you hit 10, then drop down to 5 and add weight.

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>>39149679
x 1

>>39149679
Kettlebells. Look up anything by Pavel.

>>39149343
Your small frame will change up some but not enough to lose your shit over. Remember this is a beginners program for non athletes to become athletic in a short amount of time. You will look like what most 13 year old athletes look like which isn't bad but its nothing to write home about either its just the start.

>>39149737
Except heavy deadlifts and squats thicken up the core by their nature.

>>39149756
By the time he finishes SS his body will not have changed in such a way the he could not consider himself a twink or at the very least effeminate. But lets say hes got some of the good stuff blessed upon him by thousands of years of god tier fathers. All he has to do is stop when he believes himself to have grown larger than his goal and maintain from there. My brothers boyfriend does SS with me and he hasn't changed much since twink he just has an ass and proper posture now.

>>39149715
What if there are no gyms with kettlebells near me?

>>39149801
True enough.

>>39149804
Calisthenics.

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>>39149804
You have no choice but to embrace the macho man you are born to be. You could do SS until you think you are getting bigger than you want to be which is going to make you the most unique novice ever to brace training.

Alright, so i'm doing SS or atleast something very similar for 3~ months now. I'm not progressing as fast as i should, but i know i'm not doing everything optimal. Atleast i started lifting.

I have two questions:

1) What (upperbody) exercises are good to supplement the program with? I'm currently screwing around with dips and bicep/tricep exercises, but if there's anything thats especially good i'd like to hear it.

2) After looking around at other beginner programs like SL or Greyskull I see that some do 5x5, 3x8 or 3x5. Does it really matter? What's the difference?

Cheers

>>39149885
Step 1. Recognize you are a beginner
Step 2. Pick a program
Step 3. Read the program, Study the program, practice the program, Learn the program, and quit being dumb
Step 4. Progress

>>39149885
>Alright, so i'm doing SS or atleast something very similar for 3~ months now. I'm not progressing as fast as i should, but i know i'm not doing everything optimal. Atleast i started lifting.
So you aren't doing SS
>1) What (upperbody) exercises are good to supplement the program with? I'm currently screwing around with dips and bicep/tricep exercises, but if there's anything thats especially good i'd like to hear it.
Why are you even in this thread? Buy or find an online version of SS, literally a whole section dedicated to extra shit like this.

>2) After looking around at other beginner programs like SL or Greyskull I see that some do 5x5, 3x8 or 3x5. Does it really matter?
What program are you even doing?

>>39147619
>Calisthenics
>Underdeveloped shoulders

Pick one

Anyone doing ICF 5x5? if so how are your gains?
Whats the general consensus on ICF? I know Jason Blaha is a bit insane but it seems solid.

I started squatting today for the first time.
I did 6 sets of 8 reps with 20kg, my question is maybe stupid but I felt my quads working but not buttock muscles. Is my form wrong ?

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>>39150134
>Okay you wanna get strong and aesthetic? Glad ya stopped by. Look no further. You're gonna need a couple of things. First off, you're gonna need a good diet. Second, you're gonna need plenty of rest. And lastly, you're gonna need some ice cream!

*record scratches*

>No, no, no, not the kind you eat! Ice Cream Fitness 5x5! It's the perfect beginner program and has just the right amount of volume for a beginner! Plus the guy who made it is super ripped! He's full of loads of information that would classify him as an expert on powerlifting AND bodybuilding (BOTH!)

>>39150134
It is literally SL (itself an inferior knockoff of SS) with some common assistance and accessory lifts tacked on.

Intermediate lifters require assistance lifts to apply extra volume in a way that won't cause burnout. Novices simply don't need them because the only thing they need to do to gain strength is up the weight steadily.

When you're evaluating a program you need to ask what the exercises are there for, and why they're arranged the way they are.

ICF has basically no reason to have the exercises it does in it. Shrugs, for instance, don't really serve much purpose to a novice in a rogram that already includes rows AND deadlifts. LTEs and CGPs likewise for a program with both press and bench. Likewise rows for a program that already has chins and deadlifts. The list goes on.

A true beginner will make progress on a routine like this for a month or two till the weights start getting even moderately heavy (for a novice) at which point it becomes close to impossible to progress.

DO DOMS EVER GOES AWAY?

>>39150135
No - this is a common misconception.

When you squat it always feels like your quads bear the brunt of the work because of the function they play in the movement.

Your quads are the muscles that extend (straighten out) your knees during the squat. However, the brunt of the force in the squat is produced not by your knees, but by your HIPS extending up out of the hole.

Your hips are extended by multiple groups - hamstrings, glutes, and hip adductors (the muscles on the inside of the thigh that you feel stretching when you shove your knees out while squatting.) Even though much more force is produced to extend the hips, the job is spread over multiple muscle groups, so none of them individually feel like they've been overworked.

Since the quads have to do the whole job of knee extension with no support, they end up feeling like they've taken a much greater strain.

>>39149885
The best thing you can do is stop screwing around with your upper body exercises and in general.

Start training with consistency and intensity and you'll see far more results than just fucking around which by the sounds of your post is all you've done for 3 months.

And stop looking around at different programs wondering which one is best. Pick one and do it. The difference between 3x5 or 5x5, what exercises are in each routine etc etc are all pretty minimal at the moment. The most important thing a new lifter can do is pick a routine and do it consistently. Everything you describe in your post is basically terminal fuckarounditis. You're wasting the best period of your lifting career where gains come thick and fast by just screwing around. In 3 months you could have been much stronger than you are so pull you finger out, do SS (and not "something like it", the actual program), then stick to it consistently.

>>39150279
How do the accessory exercises halt progress? Do you mean you simply halt progress outside the main lifts?

>>39150437
They don't halt progress so much as impede recovery. Accessories focus on specific muscles that have an important role in compounds. If you stress them too much they won't be able to perform their actual compound role effectively.

When more advanced lifters use them, they're using them to add volume that they can't get from the main lifts. Novices simply don't require that extra volume to grow.

>>39149885
Beginner's programs are designed to take you from untrained to novice in the shortest amount of time possible. It doesn't really matter which beginner's program you choose, they all do the same things and all cater to their "audience" in which specific exercises they utilize. However, they all have the same things in common:

>barbells
>linear progression of weight
>complex muscle, multijoint movements

The 5x5 program (3x5, 2x5 whatever) are variants on a theme and chosen mostly for simplicity sake. Medhi's SL5x5 is a variant of Rippetoe's 3x5 which was a variant of Starr's 1x5 which was a variant of Reg Park's 2x5 which was a variant of Hepburn's block progression 5x5 which he likely picked up sometime in the early 40's. They all vary slightly, but they all have the same things in common. Pick one and stick with it until you start stalling on all your lifts.

>>39145520
In which days (A or B) should I add bicep curls and triceps extension?

I know I should do barbell curls but I don't want to be hogging the only squat rack in my gym so I use dumbell curls.

>>39150554
Try them on different days and see how you feel. There's competing theories on lifting order, but it really boils down to individual response.

>>39150346
Yes. Stop being a fag and lift. Next time you have a workout do it then take the rest period your program tells you to. You will likely have DOMS.

Here is the important bit. The next day you are supposed to be in the gym you don't make excuses. You don't go "I'm still stiff and sore, I can't work out like this". You suck it up and you go anyway. The warm up sets will suck but your legs or whatever will start to ease off. You'll do your first work set and feel better. By the time you've done all your work sets the DOMS will be pretty much gone. And then they'll stay gone unless you take a week or two off in future.

>>39150554
Don't bother with LTEs till you're really struggling to add weight to pressing movements.

I generally do curls on days when I'm not doing bench, but they're such a trivial addition that it really doesn't matter where they go. If the mood takes you and there's gas in the tank, do a set or two.

>>39150584
>>39150601

Thanks. So far I'm only having some soreness in my triceps but not as much as my legs.

Also, I don't really feel any soreness at all in my pecs when I bench press. I bench 40 kg and I think my form is pretty good.

>>39150639
Soreness is caused by eccentric work that the muscle hasn't adapted to. You're likely just not at a heavy enough weight yet for it to bother your pecs in that fashion.

Started lifting a month ago, 5'10 185.when I started, down to 178 now. Decided to cut since I'm a fat fuck, and gaining strength in everything but the bench where I legit can't do more than 75lbs so I've decided to use dumbbells until I build up strength, but I don't know if that's wise or not.

>>39150741
Put a 10 lb weight, and a 5 lb weight on each side of the barbell and voila, 75 lbs.

>>39145783
Why are you even doing the jerk for power cleans?

>>39150595
>get a load of this guy's cam

I wasn't planning on not going, fag.

>>39150741
Not progressing?
There's a lot of stuff you can do
What are your other lifts at?

Check your form first though

>>39147584
awesome, thanks anon I'll definitely try those stretches

>>39147652
Sweet i'll try to concentrate on that next time I row

>>39150837
Plenty of people pussy out though. Just making sure you're not gonna be one of those guys. Good for you.

>tfw about to nearly restart SL tomorrow at the uni gym
it took me a while to get past the excuse and anxiety cycle of being embarrassed for lifting such light weights, but if I don't start somewhere how am I gonna get to weights I wont be embarrassed by
also i'm gonna go early as fuck so no one should be at the gym

>>39145520
Since I don't feel tired or sore should I work out even though I did yesterday?

>>39151278
Just don't look anyone in the eye when you're in the freeweight area.

>>39145973
>groin pain when doing squats
fixed this by slightly reducing my stance width. keep toes 30% out though

>>39151063
Thanks, mom.

>>39151323
I'm gonna be with a friend who's been lifting for like 7 months maybe, he's not huge but just having someone around should make things less awkward

>>39151332
She did ask me to look after you when I was railing her last night.

>Did SS for like a month or so
>Switched to SL
>Actually feel a challenge now
>Thinks "Feel" more muscular and lighter, but that elusive sensation of feather light step is still away

How much does lifting barefoot influence your lifts? I did it alot in my early 20s, but it's been 8 years later. And I've packed on a small teenager in those 8 years.

>Trying to get squat form down
>Can't air squat worth a damn
>can perform a half-decent loaded barbell squat.
>Not sure what I could do without tension bands

Is that squat mobility infographic actually useless?

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SL5x5, I'm 30, 5'11".
I had a superficial surgery early October.

I changed DL increases to 2.5 kg/5lbs recently. Too early?
Also changed OHP increases to 1kg/2.2 lbs each session.
Squats feel scary now but I'm not planning to decrease the overload.

Any hints what I can do better?
Will eating more prevent stalling or am I at maximum possible regeneration already?

>>39151419

>Scary squat

What're you squatting?

>>39151559

Disregard. been awhile since I've had to read a graph of anything.

You're scared of squatting 175lb? Are you a girl?

Does anyone do "real" cardio in addition to SL?

I'd like to start doing some genuine cardio with my workouts but I'm worried it'll hurt any potential gains.

I'm 5'11 trying to get out of skele/skinnyfat mode. Currently 138 lbs. and eating ~2500 cals on off days and between 2500-3000 on workout days.

Would cardio be a bad idea?

>>39151570
I think it's more a dislike for the possible event that I have to unload the barbell when the barbell rests on the safeties which I experienced a few times now.

>>39151629

I had my bench rack's safeties just fucking fall away on my last 5x BP of 150lbs.

I was not fucking happy.

Squat bailing is pretty easy AFAIK
Lean forward, role your shoulders and lean back a bit. Thing should drop right off. Jump away once it's rolled off your shoulders.

I haven't had to bail mines, but I'm also having inner groin issues that might be impingement. So I may be bailing my next session.

>>39145915
I lift and do calisthenics on rest days to target arms and the serratus + some shoulder mobility

>Chinups, dips, pushups

>>39151345
gross

>>39151627
Im trying to go for a run and do some accesories for arms (im the califag) on rest days. It doesnt affect my lifts and im doing a modified version of SL.

Im not a novice tho, but i dont see why you would have a problem doing some cardio. If anythining you wont be overtrained but underrecovered.

Got my gf doing SS. She's making fuck all progress on bench. I may start getting her to use micro plates cause 5 lb jumps just is too much.

>>39151737

My Squats have been aggrivating the inside of my groin lately. I started weight lifting because I thought I might be too damn weak to run.

I'd get done and my goddamn shins would hurt all damn day, the following day. And my tendon in my right ankle would be sore as hell.

I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.
I wanna get rid of some serious weight. I'm a fat fucking manlet.

>>39151760
then she's not eating enough and not arching her back enough

>>39151760
I guarantee 5lb jumps are too much. Chicks simply don't have the same upper body strength guys do. I'd give her a small deload, then build it back up in 2.5lb increases.

Also, make sure she's eating enough, getting enough protein and sleeping enough.

Dont push her too hard. It's great she's doing it at all but of she isn't making progress and you're getting all frustrated with her she'll quickly give up. No one gets disillusioned like a girl when it comes to physical exercise.

>>39151765
Sounds like you might have been getting shin splints which can be caused by your gait and cadence. Basically you might have been running like a retard.

Try to strike midfoot when you're running, wear proper running shoes, and if possible gave your gait analysed to see where you're going wrong. Some athletic equipment stores will offer that service but it might be tricky to find somewhere that does depending on where you are.

>>39151903

Yeah I'm out in the middle of buttfuck nowhere.

I feel like I stride wider then I should, but taking shorter steps feels fucking retarded.

The tendon problem in my ankle doesn't normally bother me, only when I run, or wear flipflops for extended periods. Then I'm feeling it for several days.

I've a lot of overall lower body tightness to be honest. But I can't for the fucking life of me find the "Hey faggot, your shits all fucked up. DO THESE THINGS RIGHT HERE ANDUNFUCK YOURSELF" type of website or information.

>>39151760
>girl
>benching

lmaoooooooo

>>39145637
pendlay rows are useless desu

>>39151928
Find some videos of correct gait and try to copy them. If you search "running gait" or "running form" on youtube you'll find plenty.

I found this one helpful.

https://youtu.be/wRkeBVMQSgg

>>39151928
Also, stretch your achillies. Stand in a step or something raised with the front half of your foot, let your weight dip your heel down and you should feel a stretch in your calve/heel.

Alternatively, roll a towel to a fair thickness and place it under your toes, from there do a lunge and you'll feel a similar stretch in your calve and heel again. Hold these stretches for around 30 seconds each, a few times a day and slowly increase the time you hold them for.

>>39151760
Practical Programming pretty much says that women can get away with maybe one or two 10lb jumps on bench, then maybe a week or two of 5lb before moving straight on to microloading.

To give you an idea of how disproportionately weak the average grill's upper body is, the equivalent standard to 200/300/400/500 in men is 100/155/225/315 in women.

>>39152140

Jesus christ. I'm not the other anon, but my ladies been weighting too.

I've a broken up, I've been doing SS for a month, and switch to SL like 2-3 weeks ago. I'm up to a 150lb Bench, 145 squat (Having hip issues), and like 160lb Dead. I know I can do a raw 260lb dead maybe more.

She's struggling with 20lbs on the bar. I knew the disparity was ridiuclous. But that's nuts.

>She watched me do my OHP and refused to try it for at least 10 minutes.

>>39151984
t. backlet

>>39152199

>I've a broken up.

I meant to say my arms all snapped up from an injury as a kid and an animal mauling.

is the 1x5 deadlift in SL a meme
would there be anything wrong with deadlifting every workout for a beginner or increasing the sets for the time i do deadlift

>>39153635
It's a protection. There's nothing wrong with doing more sets, but deadlifts are such a full body lift and they activate the CNS so hard, it's easy to burnout on them quick.

>>39149282
Sounds like you're doing great mate. Do your best to up that sleep if there's any way you can

>>39148275
Your lifts are too low to stall that hard, eat more.

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Just about wrapping up my second week on this Greyskull LP, loving it, how do you guys hate this program?

Also, my gym doesn't allow me to deadlift outside the squat rack (bizzare, I know, but I hear a lot of gyms don't allow deadlifting at all), I can do it with proper form just fine, but I wonder if picking up the bar at the squat rack safety whatever level instead of the ground fucks with the gains too much?

6'7, i've been doing SL for a month. Currently at 180 DL, 140 Squat, 100 Row, 70 Bench, and 40 OHP.

Not bragging, or anything. Just wanted to say becuse I feel proud of myself.

>>39154889
It's not so much that I stalled, the session just felt like a rather high spike in difficulty compared to others. Maybe that is stalling and I'm retarded but either way I added another daily meal to my diet.

>>39155557
Does your gym squat rack not allow the removal of safeties? You can be in the rack and take the safeties completely off. Depending on the height at some point it just turns into a rack pull instead of a deadlift.

>>39148151
>>39148151
>>implying powercleans are useful for anything but cleaning power
>this is as true as saying "squats only make you stronger at squatting" or "pressing can only making you stronger at pressing"

>implying anything written above is wrong

>>39148151
>>implying SS is even a good program compared to Reg Parks/Stronglifts
>kek

>you kek because you have no argument

>>39148151
>>You don't even know how to change up your program.
>you think you're a programming genius now because you think swapping pc's for rows is a good idea?

>implying you won't get more gains from rowing then pc'ing

ABSOLUTE BAIT

>>39148155
kinda like how you just did that? your memey pic doesn't make it anymore believable btw

today was my first day
FUCK squats

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>>39150279
>It is literally SL (itself an inferior knockoff of SS)
>literally
>SL inferior to SS

guaranteed replies

>>39151872
>what is equality?
She wants to get equal, tell her to get stronger.

Fucking bullshit microplate bullshit.
Tell her to sack the fuck up and stop being a little bitch.

Fucking women, wanting to cherrypick what equal rights they get.

You either do the exact same shit or get back to washing dishes, bitches.

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>>39156059
The squat rack has little bumper area one inch off the ground after the safety bars, I just do the deadlifts there.

>>39156239
One inch shouldn't make a difference.

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>>39156246
Great! Literally no one ever uses it, not even for squat rack curls.

>>39153889
I really can't that's why I take an extra rest day if need be. I just listen to my body and it usually works out for the better. Some weeks I've ended up training every third day instead of every other day. I'm still consistently gaining strength so I think I'm doing something right.

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>>39151872
>give her a small deload

Raunchy desu

>>39156163
Where did I mention equality. If you think you're average woman is anything close to a man's equal physically you're retarded.

>sack up and lift this weight that I'd heavier than you're physically capable of

Ok, why don't you take your 1RM, add 50lbs and rep that shit out. It's just a case of sacking up so why haven't you done it already?

>>39156796
L-lewd...

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>tfw squatting 130kg on Monday! Eeep

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>"Stop browsing 4chan and get in, pussy. We're going deadlifting."

>>39157984
But I did deadlifts on Wednesday!

The program! the program!

I started SL and managed to hurt my thighs on the third workout of the first week while doing squats, it hurt that bad that I had to drink ibuprofen for almost a week or so, otherwise every movement would hurt. Now week and a half later, looks like everything healed, I can squat once again (haven't been to the gym yet, just regular squat with no weights) so I am planning to start again from Monday. Looks like I've been doing something wrong

>>39147549

Dude you're supposed to take the 3 minutes regardless. Any less than that and you're building endurance, not strength. If you only need 90 seconds, you're not lifting heavy enough.

>>39147549
Congrats, you're making progress and the weight is starting to get challenging. Wait until you need 5+mins after each set. Your workouts will probably end up around 1.5 to 2 hours when that happens. Including accessory work of course.

You start to appreciate deadlift day for that sweet 1x5 instead of 5x5 or 3x5 of Pendlay rows. Makes those days that little bit quicker.

>>39158023
Were you lifting weights at all before? Sounds like DOMS to me.

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I started doing SS this thusday and asked the gym owner to check my form on the deadlifts because he was a bodybuilder back in the day and figure he knew what he was doing.
He told me to drop SS and told me to do OHP 3x15, curl 3x15, squat 3x15, rows 3x15, some machine where I had to hold my elbows next to my sides and pull a rope, hell if I know what that is called 3x15 and kneel on one knee and then get up and do the other, i don't know what the fuck that is called 3x15, all of this using only the barbell.

Am I being memed?

>>39158259
Yes you're being meme'd.

If he was a bodybuilder he was likely roiding at some point in his career and his idea of what works for a natural lifter is probably pretty skewed.

SS will get you stronger quicker than doing all that volume. Once you're actually capable of lifting something significant those rep ranges might make more sense but if you go in day one and try to do OHP 3x15 you'll be struggling with just the bar.

Also,

>bodybuilder
>deadlifting

Most bodybuilders don't go near DL. Some do, but most prefer to "replace" it with a mish mash of lesser exercises. Have you ever seen him deadlift? If so does he lift a lot of weight? The fact he's telling you to remove DL and replace things with machines is a warning sign to me. Machines have their place but not as cornerstones of a routine like DL should be.

Just ask yourself, would you rather go in and do 3x5 on three compound lifts and make great gains or would rather go in and fuck around for hours on 3x15 on like 7 exercises to achieve what will be, in my opinion, lesser results.

Just because he's a gym owner and might be or have been a big guy doesn't make him a good coach. If you want to get into bodybuilding later in your lifting then by all means take his advice. It's not terrible for further down the road. But for an untrained novice it's pretty shit.

But again, this is all just my opinion. If you'd rather take his advice over some dude on 4chans the most important thing is to stick to it consistently. That's more important than what routine you're doing at this point.

>>39158182
Never lifted before in my entire life

Should I try to learn squat and deadlift form by myself or wait and join a gym with a couple bros in a month or 2?


One of them nows how to squat and deadlift but I have a feeling the other is gonna drop out after a few months anyway

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I dont care what anyone says, THIS IS THE GREATEST PROGRAM EVER! IT IS HARD! IT IS TOUGH! IT GETS YOU STRONG LIKE OX!

>>39158352
Thanks, anon. I'm going to stick to SS and maybe later follow his advice.

>>39158415
I learned myself and did fine. Been lifting about 3 years now, heavy compounds, no injuries.

Theres plenty of YouTube materiel to learn from, just record yourself lifting and be critical of yourself and work on weak points.

Personally I'd be leary of taking anyone's advice on form unless they were a qualified, proven coach. Or a strong as fuck lifter that I respected. But just some gymbro? Nah, too many self proclaimed experts in gyms for me. I'd rather trust my own judgement.

I'm doing SL, and I've plateaued at lmao 1pl8 (+2,5 kg) bench for over a month now. I've tried deloading, I had a week of rest (trained consistently for 2 months) and I hit 150 grams of protein and are gaining weight. What the fuck is going on guys? A PT said I might simply respond bad to strength training. Could that be it? My body simply responds better to hypertrophy? I'm willing to try anything at this point.

>>39159379
150 grams of protein every day*

I'm 73 btw, and my DL has also stopped at about 110 kg

>>39159390
73 kg* jesus

And yes, I am eating carbs before working out, I'm sleeping about 7 hours every night and take pre-workout. I shouldn't be pleatouing like this

>>39159390
Have you tried reducing volume? It's a bit early to be worrying about periodization and shit, but I found SS > SL for strength and size gains because I simply responded better to the 3 sets. Probably helped I had more energy for accessories.

Also, microplates?

>>39159401
Don't know what you mean by "microplates", but by 1pl8 i mean 20 kg each side, aka 62,5 kg bench.

I'll have a look at switching to SS. If not, would going more for hypertrophy be a good idea?

>>39159417
Microplates are smaller than the normal 2.5lb smallest increments. Most linear progress programs will suggest them for upper body movements (protip: now I KNOW you didn't read the damned book)
So next tip is read the damned book (SS, SL is a fucking stupid meme)

Have you been gaining weight? How heavy were you, lets say 8 weeks ago?

>>39158026
Well when the program started the sets were so easy that I felt waiting 3 minutes was useless. I used the SL app and at the very start it set me up with weights that were incredibly low for me and I didn't want to bump it up as I felt like that wouldn't be following the program.

>>39159439
yeah, 1 pl8 + 2,5 lbs on each side. You're correct when you say I haven't read much about SS, but that's simply because I've been doing SL (and I did read the entire thing there).

8 weeks ago, I was around 70 kg. So I have been putting on some mass ( I can also see that I've gotten slightly bigger through progress photos), so it's just very weird to me that I'm not getting those glorious "noob gains" everyone is on about.

HEY YOU FUCKING people on fit
im a 6'4 75kg weakling and i can lift 5kg weights for 10/25/50/75 with brief breaks
but 5kg weights is all we got
advice for what weight dumbbells to buy? nowhere cheap to get them so keep in mind that an adjustable set some weight higher is best so i can work off the same pair without paying big money for a new pair a few kg heavier
what weight should i start with and what size of adjustable dbs can get this weight as a minimum while ALSO having a reasonable progression of weights AND lasting pretty long so i dont have to buy 100 pairs of dbs

thank u

>>39157882
M8 I do it all the time, its called progressive overload, DYEL phaggot?
Fucking beta fatty neckbeards on this board.
Holy shit.

Also if a woman wants to be equal but won't push as much weight as a man, she isn't equal then is she?
NOT MY FUCKING PROBLEM PHAGGOT

>>39159659
I never said they were equal. In fact I'm saying the exact opposite, that they aren't equal and simply cannot handle the weight men can.

You're either fucking retarded or trolling. Gtfo.

http://startingstrength.com/training/why-will-you-not-do-the-program

KEK only 6% of people follow the program correctly;

>>39160589
2%*

>>39160589
I can believe this. It always amazes me how many people manage to fuck it up. It's about as basic a program as it gets yet people still fuck around with it and get it wrong.

Frankly it's kind of depressing how stupid your average person can be.

>>39151393
>Switched to SL
>Actually feel a challenge now
You'd accomplish that by just increasing the weights more than usual for a couple workouts.

I keep hearing SS/SL is a meme. Is this true? And if not, why are there no good progress pics with that program?

>>39159740
>implying women aren't equal to men
>2016

then you are sexist plain and simple m8 hate to be the one to break it to you but thats how fucking equality works

if what you are saying is true than a woman shouldnt get paid the same as a man for doing the same job simply because she is less efficient from everything like getting places slower because she has smaller strides to only being able to carry so much to not being as useful in an emergency situation

you are deluded and a bigot you phaggot beta

>>39160589
people don't want to gain weight or they got fat, they do it for a month, get pissed they didn't get abs and then they quit

>>39151629
That's not scary, scary is when you squat in a shitty rack, miss the safeties and get squashed

>>39160589
that's 2%, and it's 2% of the people who post their logs on startingstrength.com. the ratio is most likely even lower if you consider the general population.

we see that on /fit/ as well. how many times do we have poster who "do SS" yet have modified it in some stupid way? how many poster actually do the program as written? honestly I can't remember the last time I saw one.

I do SS with added chin/pullups, flies, and forearm work in the form of hammer curls and weighted deadhangs. I'm not overworking my shit right? I do cleans and everything

What do I add to SS? I don't mind being in the gym for a few hours, and I just switched from PPLPPLX from lack of time, so SS feels like nothing.

I was thinking of adding at least weighted dips, close grip bench, curls, front squat, leg press, lunges, incline bench.

So when and where do I add these?

>>39161190
>>39161189
>So when and where do I add these?

after like 4 months but all those aren't very good accessories. You only want to do accessories that assist your main lift. So chins/GHR/backextension/Abs/curls/dips that's it really. It's a simple program. You also have to progress on your accessory lifts

>>39145520
>book
Here the book for free
megadownloder com/592148

>>39161190
You add 5lbs to your lifts, nothing else

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>>39161233
its 50bux. Just buy the book. He's a old man and he needs the money

>>39161227
Not that retarded faggot who wants to add a quadrillion exercises, but the guy above.

I have very underdeveloped looking abs due to intentions, that's why I'm doing flies.

Forearm work is due to me doing rock climbing and them helping immensely.

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>>39161260
>I have very underdeveloped looking abs due to intentions, that's why I'm doing flies.

>>39161284
*insertions

Stupid frog poster thinks it's worth posting a (you) for an autocorrect mistake. Jesus the autism on this board is getting out of hand. Summerfags still at full force.

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>>39161299
go to bed

>>39155732
Im 6'7" too. I hate being this tall . Bench hurts my shoulders.

>>39161348
Yeah that must suck

>>39161090
>who is zach evetts

>>39161257
go to bed rippletits

>>39157984
>going deadlifting
>not squatting

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>>39161366
Disgusting

Here's the thing
I want to do SS and power cleans look fun but Im struggling to learn them.
I also have shoulder health concerns because of hypermobile shoulders and a rolled forward Shoulder with a torn labrum, and I need to strengthen the area.
So I've been doing a 3x5 with rows, Overhead shrugs and lateral/rear delt work.

I know it's breaking the program but I can't ignore my shoulder concern.

Band facepulls/landmine lateral raises when I chin/power clean, and overhead shrugs/band facepulls when I deadlift?

What could I do to minimize program fuckage while fixing up my shoulders and strengthening them all around?
Would neckwork be okay too? Doesn't seem like it'll get in the way.

>>39145520
Is there a good starting lifting program geared 100% toward hypertrophy and fat loss?

>>39163831
gross

>>39163931
No. as an untrained novice it's physiologically impossible to grow muscle. You have to burn out your newbie gains which takes 6~24 weeks. Nearly the entirety of those newb gains are CNS adaptations, your nervous system must learn to lift heavy before you are able to lift heavy enough to initiate muscle growth.

What people think of as "muscle growth" as a beginner is nothing more than "toning". Or "tonus". It's the state of muscle contraction while at rest. Mostly used to refer to posture, it "firms up" muscles as they're used. That "toning" is maxed out in about two weeks.

This causes program hopping and eventual quitting of weight training as you make AMAZING GAINZ at first and then the "program" fails you. Fact is, you just didn't stick with the program long enough to see actual real results.

And BTW, if you're a fatty. Those first two weeks are going to be shit if you're watching a mirror. Enough time for your muscles to firm up, not enough to lose appreciable amount of fat. You'll actually look worse than before you started.

>>39159512

Yeah, not super familiar with SL, looked it up and you're right, don't bother waiting the 3 min if you don't need it. But the goal is 100% to get to a point where you need to wait 3-5 min between sets, that's when you know you're getting stronger. SL has a really slow starting progression to acclimate new lifters to the form and routine without risk of injury, so it basically starts you out lifting way, way below what you're capable of.
So go ahead and keep following the program, just know that it's a good thing that you need to wait longer now, that's absolutely the norm and it means shit's getting real.

>>39164035
Here, I'll be a little more specific, a bit of background info may give you a better idea about how to help me.

I used to be a high-ranking competitive swimmer (i.e. within the fastest 100 in my state and the states surrounding it). Back then, my coach had me doing sport specific weightlifting exercises, mainly ab/back, lats, tricep, deltoid, pecs and leg work to strengthen muscles used in swimming. I was doing things like weighted pullups, weighted back extensions, weighted dips, leg raises, 100 billion different types of flies, hypergay middle-aged pregnant lady leg machine exercises (you know the ones I'm talking about), power clean and jerks, squats, things like that - all to failure. I was benching and squatting 2pl8, and could do around 25 pull ups and dips with a 25lb plate chained to a belt around my waist, to give you an idea of what kinda weight I was doing.

This was in 2009.

Since then, I've stopped exercising, gained about 30lbs, most of my muscles have atrophied, but just last week I went back into the gym on a slow day and did some work with just the bar and light weight, and as far as I can tell my form is still decent or at least "safe".

My heart and lungs are in some very shitty shape, but a month of swimming about a mile 3x a week has fixed that to some extent.

As of right now, I weigh 165lbs, I am 5'9 and 25 years old.

My current plan is to drop enough body fat to expose my abs (aiming for 8-12%) with more cardio, then start doing hypertrophy training.

In my case, will SS still be required first to retrain my CNS or can I skip straight ahead to an intermediate hypertrophy program given my athletic history? Will SS + swimming + deficit diet give me better results in fat loss than just swimming + diet, or is it not worth the extra effort? Is it even possible to get muscle mass gains while on a cut?

>>39164382
Oops typo - I was benching 1pl8 and squatting 2pl8

>>39164382
>In my case, will SS still be required first to retrain my CNS or can I skip straight ahead to an intermediate hypertrophy program given my athletic history?

Yes, but. I would ramp up the progression faster given your history. You'll be surprised how out of shape you are, and I'd be surprised by how fast you progress. Don't step right back into where you were, that's how people get rhabdo.

>Will SS + swimming + deficit diet give me better results in fat loss than just swimming + diet, or is it not worth the extra effort?

Lifting won't necessarily help fatloss other than that ~250cal burn while you're lifting.

>Is it even possible to get muscle mass gains while on a cut?
Yes, but it's difficult except at the beginner stages. You're likely to see some. Up your protein intake to something more like 50-30-20.