Strength vs. Hypertrophy

95lbs? Are you a woman or underage?

>>39095292

>doing so much biceps
>having shitty biceps

>doing so much triceps
>having shitty triceps

top kek

how tall are you? Seem like small person. Sounds like your burning up all your glycogen stores. Try adding more weight if you dont feel tired add a heavier load or accessory exercises for your main lifts that day

There are 3 options here. You are
>A: A woman
>B: 10 years old
>C: A 5'2" male skelly

Tell us so we can help you properly.

>>39095292

I will reply to your bait

If you don't feel tired after your 5x5 it's either because

>you don't know how to activate your CNS to lift at your maximum capacity

>you can't push really hard in a short time period and you are used to keep some fuel for more reps

if you were actually pushing really hard for low reps, you would literally want to take a nap after your sets

in fact, strength training done correctly will literally make your tendons and muscles hurt if you try to do hyperthrophy afterwards with a lighter weight

>>39095320
>>39095352
Lol guys. Im a 21yo female and 5'1". Im not anorexic or anything, I just have a small frame.

Also, just to clarify, I feel tired while/right after doing hypertrophy workouts and not hours after my training.

So my question was: is there a difference in general between hypertrophy vs strength workout in terms of fatigue while working out?

>>39095408
You should feel much more tired during your workouts in strength training. If you feel like 2 minutes is too much time between reps then you are not lifting heavy enough. Find out what your one rep max is for your lifts, and then do 80% of that for your 5x5.

>>39095408
You know the drill, time stamp and body pic before we help

>>39095366
OP here.
No, this isn't bait. I'm just a newbie.

I don't know a thing about this type of training. What should I fix?

>>39095425
OP here.
Okay, I'll lift heavier next time. This brings me to my second question: at what point should I start wearing a belt? Im already lifting 95lbs, which is my body weight.

>>39095408
LONDON
O
N
D
O
N

>>39095446
Should I wear a belt when I measure my 1rm? Im super scared of getting a back injury

>>39095482
Start wearing a belt when you are scared of hurting yourself. If you're uncomfortable with the weight, wear the belt. Also make the belt fairly tight, kinda defeats the purpose if you wear loosely. I personally can't wear the belt, it throws me off. I know it's stupid, but it just doesn't work for me.

>>39095446
If you're a noob, you should not waste your time with hypertrophy split routines

>>39095292
>95 lbs
>taking advice from balcony
never change /fit/

>>39095446

how newbie are you?

if you have less than 1 months training you should first learn the form before attempting strength training, you could do sets for 8-6 reps

after that month you could start with strength training, but if you are scared of fucking up your back at this point it's because you aren't comfortable with your form yet

if you are a newbie you aren't able to calculate your 1rm anyway, you just don't know how to push yourself to that limit

you should use some of those calculators of RM with the heavy sets you did in your hyperthrophy routine and then use the ones for 5RM or 6RM

you need to see strength training as skill training, you want to be become better at doing the skill; the lift, you don't care about muscle fatigue or if you will make muscle gains this way or another, you should think as if what you are doing will make you stronger or not in the long run, if it's improving your skill or not, you push yourself hard so you are comfortable with heavier weights

You should research periodization. All the best routines have a time where you do high volume, peaking, and intensity(for dropping fatigue).

Your heavy lifting right now and the way you feel refreshed is how the recovery is supposed to feel. Low rep high weights is a good way to recover but not to progress. Your really doing like 80% if i had to guess.

You need to do like 2 weeks of hypertrophy.

So do like 4x12 with 75 as a main workout and a lot of accesories. Youre gonna feel kinda tired but not like youre dying yet. This will prepare your body for peaking and allocate more resources to your muscles.

Then do 2 weeks where you do 6x6 105 pounds. This is where you will never want to squat again in your life. Then the last 2 weeks you do 95 5x5 and recover. You just did 105 for 6x6, 5x5 is gonna be cake.

Now you do 4x12 with 80 pounds for 2 weeks. 110 for 2. 100 for 2.

Then you do 85 4x12. 115 6x6 for 2 weeks. 105 5x5 for 2 weeks.

Kind of this pattern.


Or you can just read 5/3/1

>>39095691
I have been lifting on and off for a year (lost my gains during the off periods). I am very comfortable with my form, it's just that Im scared of injuring my back because of the heavy weights. I mean, experienced powerlifters use the belt because of the heavy weights and not because they dont feel comfortable with their form.

Thanks for suggesting the 1rm calculator online. It's useful since idk how to measure it myself.

>>39095292
Hey anon, I might be able to help you. I weight a little more than you (101~105lbs) but we're the same height. I switched from a hypertrophy routine to a strength routine earlier this year. I experienced the same change, but I do still get fatigued when I up my weights. I don't feel the same "burn" in my muscles as hypertrophy, but I definitely feel tired. I usually wait maximum 1 minute unless going for a PR. Women need less rest time than men, I believe.

I wear a belt when I feel like I need the extra support which is usually when I'm squatting 175lbs+ for more than 3 reps or deadlifting 185lbs+ for 5 reps. I suggest getting a shorter belt though unless you have a very long torso. The regular belts probably will cut into your ribs. I definitely get out of breath doing squats, come to think of it.

I've seen girls your size (97lbs, I believe) squat 200lbs+ without a belt or knee sleeves far past parallel. I always wear knee sleeves though. I think you just need to lift heavier. Maybe get someone to spot you and correct your form OR record yourself and evaluate your form if your'e scared of injuring yourself due to improper form.

>>39095827
Okay, >>39095425 is saying that I should feel a lot more tired and you are saying that Im not supposed to. Who's right here?

>>39095827
>>39095691
Also, I should add that the reason why I switched my training in the first place is because Im competing in Olympic Weightlifting and I want to get my strength up. Idk if that will change your answers

>>39096079

Yes, we are both saying that 5x5 95pounds is not stimulating you enough. You need to up the weight. I believe you can do 105 6x6 and that should do the trick. On a real strength training protocal youre gonna feel like shit.

>>39095504
Calculate your 1RM based on how many reps you can do of a lighter weight.

You should never lift a 1RM as noob.

How does this routine compare to a "basic" push pull legs (PPL) routine?

Lets say:
Push (chest and triceps)
Bench press: 3x8 or 5x5
Dips 3x8
Trucep ext. 3x8

Pull (back and biceps)
Deadlift 3x5
Pull ups 3x8
Bb rows 3x8
Bb shrugs 3x8
Preacher curls 3x8

Legs (quads and shoulders)
Squat 5x5 or 3x8
Leg press 3x8
Ohp 3x8 or 5x5
Random shoulder exercise?

>>39095366
>you don't know how to activate your CNS to lift at your maximum capacity
Is this like going super saiyan? Can you boost your power level natty?

>>39096193

more like kaio ken

>>39096094
Okay, I'll lift heavier next time for sure

>>39096028
Thanks for the advice! Im definitely gonna get a belt now. I dont think my core/back muscles are strong enough to pull off a clean lift with really heavy weights haha

>>39096187
OP here
Why are deadlifts in back day and not in leg day? Don't they activate the hamstrings and quads?

Lower reps will most likely feel easier than higher reps because you are not lifting heavy enough. To find a good starting weight do a set of 6 reps. If you manage it, then add 2.5/5lbs for upper/lower body exercises respectively. Once you reach a weight where you feel your form will be bad, write that down as your starting weight. Slight mistakes do not make form bad, I’m talking bending your upper back over, knees caving dramatically inwards, or failing the 6th rep completely.

Then you should follow the starting strength progression that deadlifts on A days and power cleans on B days. As a woman your explosive power plays a large part of your strength gain, and the (power) clean is the best way to train this. Rows are not a substitute. The first few sessions will probably feel easy as the weight really isn’t that heavy. However, as you progressively overload you will find that to get the 5 reps for every set you’ll need longer resting periods.

If you are eating and sleeping correctly, you may find that you never feel tired or sore after a workout. Take this as a good thing, DOMS is hell and if you can gain strength without it then you are blessed.

N.b. As a woman you have a genetic cap of how well you can recruit your muscle fibres that is a lower percentage of the maximum than men can. This means that you will not get as fatigued as men. T-nation wrote a good article on this.

>>39096379
I forgot, wear a belt when you feel that you need some assistance holding your core tight and your lower back in extension (extending the lower back moves the upper body backwards over the hips, if you lay on your stomach and lift your straight legs up, those are the muscles that cause lower back extension).

The starting strength book is not even 10$ and answers any questions about form, equipment, routine or equipment someone new to strength training could think of. It's not a perfect routine but it's a great book

>>39096279
Depends how you lift, typically Deadlifts should be a hamstring, glutes, and lowerback move. If it activates your quads more you maybe bending too low with your legs

>>39096187
I don't know what you mean by a "basic" PPL but here are my thoughts. Deadlifts really don't require volume, do them 1x5 every other back day. Alternate them with a deadlift variation (romanian deadlift is probably the best bet). The shrugs are completely unnecessary. If you start to notice your traps are really far behind then add a couple of heavy sets after deadlifting. Why preacher curls? If there isn't a good reason just do normal curls. Lateral raises or reverse flys are probably your best bet for the "random shoulder exercise."

>>39095446
i thought you do strength first than do hypertrophy? im a noob too but i always thought you build a good foundation then move on sculpting your body

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>>39096593
Thats a meme and makes no sense. Just fucking lift weights.

>>39095292
Op i gotta ask, you do realize when you do 5x5, the whole reason you stop at 5 reps is cause its heavier than what you would do for 12 right? You are doing 5 with the same weight just cause, its supposed to be heavier. I hope you realize that.

>>39096622
>Op i gotta ask, you do realize when you do 5x5, the whole reason you stop at 5 reps is cause its heavier than what you would do for 12 right? You are doing 5 with the same weight just cause, its supposed to be heavier. I hope you realize that.
Legit laughing out loud because plenty of people on this board probably don't realize that.

>>39095292
>Single arm sideways chest press

What the fuck is this meme shit senpai

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>>39096717
>What the fuck is this meme shit senpai
Just that, a meme. People make fake routines and slap them on bodies to trick idiots.

>>39096703
>Legit laughing out loud because plenty of people on this board probably don't realize that.
Its sad but 100% true. You gotta explain this shit on a 1st grade level. Remember that idiot who did GOMAD but wasnt eating just drinking milk and was loosing weight, funny but a shame.

I do 3x10 and it's giving me gains quicker than 5x5. 3-4 exercises per workout. Legs twice a week

>>39096796
Youre either lying or you just started lifting. Either post body or tell us your big lift maxes.

>people ITT think belts have to do with preventing back injury

Never change /fit/

Hey OP. You just aren't lifting heavy enough weight to REALLY tax you yet. If the height feels heavy but isn't taxing you then you haven't even gotten close to your true strength potential.

Keep going heavier.

>>39096796
If you can actually tell the rate you're "making gains at" you're dyel enough that literally everything will work.

OP here
>>39096622
Hahaha yes I do realize that.

>>39096796
You are doing hypertrophy training that is focused more on gaining mass as opposed to strength. Both training styles will increase both but at different rates.

>>39096814
Wait, they're not?

>>39096834
Yea Im gonna lifter heavier next time. I guess I was just nervous about lifting so heavy.

Does anyone here do Oly Lifting that can give me some advice? I can clean&jerk but I can't snatch because I can't seem to do the overhead squat part.

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>>39097009
>You are doing hypertrophy training that is focused more on gaining mass as opposed to strength. Both training styles will increase both but at different rates.
So you ask for advice but now youre giving it? Stay quiet cause thats another meme anyway. Unless youre on gear it wont matter.

>Wait, they're not?
They are, just not for the reason people think they are. You dont need one yet anyway.

> I can clean&jerk but I can't snatch because I can't seem to do the overhead squat part.
If youre just starting out why are you doing either of those? No Oly movements are in SL 5x5.

>>39097039
OP here
It's not a meme, you silly. It doesn't matter as much only when you're a beginner since the gains will come anyway. When you reach the plateau, training style will have a difference. Ex. A bodybuilder will undergo different training than a powerlifter.
You shouldn't give out advice when you don't what you're talking about, anon.

>>39096187
>no press on push day
>No RDL
Why annon?

>>39097039
OP here.
Idk how to snatch and clean&jerk yet so Im doing 5x5 on other exercises to get my strength up. Im just practicing my form with a pvc pipe when it comes to oly weightlifting

>>39096593
meme/fit logic
SS is the best weights program, you will still be beginner after you finish

>>39097090
>Reach the plateau
Fucking kek

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>>39097090
>A bodybuilder will undergo different training than a powerlifter.
Youre an idiot if you think this is true. The only reason BBs do that is cause they are on gear. If you are a natty and you do Hypertrophy training you are retarded. See pic related you ignorant fucking silly.

>>39097115
My point is why are you doing OLY at all? There no reason to ever snatch or C&J desu. As far as OLY goes all you need is Front Squats and Power Cleans. And those arent even really OLY completely.

>>39097115
OP, you know there is an olympic weightlifting general on this board?
>>>>39090427

>>39097150
>Youre an idiot if you think this is true. The only reason BBs do that is cause they are on gear. If you are a natty and you do Hypertrophy training you are retarded. See pic related you ignorant fucking silly.

Yes you fucking retard.
Geared bodybuilders and powerlifters do in fact train different.

And once you get out of baby bitch weights you're not going to be able to have the same volume as a fucking beginner.
You are not going to be able to put up huge numbers with high volume consistently without major injury potential as a natural.
It's fucking not going to happen.

Meaning, once you become an interemediate or above, you are not going to put on the same mass as someone who lifts like a bodybuilder.
You're just not.
You will not be able to put up the same level of volume unless you do FUCK ALL ELSE in your life and you knew for a fact that you are 100% completely safe from injury. It's just not going to happen.

>>39097261
I dont understand. Are you agreeing with me? Cause thats what im saying. The only reason BBs do hypertrophy is cause they are on gear.

>>39097150
man you really grossly misconstrued what greg nuckols was saying in that article

really really badly

you should read his follow up articles that explain why training in higher rep ranges for hypertrophy is more effective in practice (your maximum recoverable volume is higher at lower intensities, a brutal 7x3 maximal triple workout produced the same hypertrophy as a 3x10 workout, etc)

so yes rep ranges themselves do not determine hypertrophy at all, but training in higher rep ranges = you can do and tolerate more volume = more size gains

>>39097291
no he's blowing you the fuck out for being an idiot who shouldn't be giving nonsense advice

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>>39097329
Ok explain how? btw its not my advice its fucking facts.
>>39097306
You misconstrued what im saying. If you are a beginner lifter and all you do is volume and no heavy movements you arent going to see the results you could be seeing otherwise. Same as im not saying volume shouldnt be used, cause it should. But 95% of the time this discussion comes up its by some kid who hasnt even set foot in a gym yet but hes been reding BB.com meme routines and wants to do 10 different chest exercises with volume out the ass. See Ops pic as a perfect example. Its easier to just tell these kids to do strength only rather than hold there hand through the whole process.

>>39097291
Volume as they say in that stupid picture also means weight.

I'll put it simply.

Volume = weight plus reps.
Naturals have far higher recovery times and energy levels and drive compared to geared lifters.

Once you are not a beginner anymore you will see the instant gains from any stupid bullshit you do, instant recovery, and almost negligable injury potential VANISH.


On a pure strength or power based routine, AS A NATURAL, you will not be able to put up the volume needed to build as much muscle mass as someone who lifts heavily enough to make a relatively high number of reps and sets a challenge.

It's safer, it's easier, and it will make strength training, if you choose to do it, far more easy later on.

That's what I'm saying.

>>39097412
>Naturals have far higher recovery times but lower energy levels and drive compared to geared lifters.
My mistake.

>>39097412
that's literally the entire point of assistance work, sure you may only bench a 3x5, but that's why anyone with a half decent routine is going to do some form assist work after, or have either a high volume cycle where they built the mass they need.

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>>39097412
This is the worst bull shit ive ever seen.

First off if thats the case then why do strength routines even exist for beginners? Why would anyone ever do SL or SS?

Second geared lifters recover far quicker than a natural lifter regardless of their experience level. Thats one of the whole fucking reasons to get on gear you moron. Why do you think geared OLY lifters do 2 a days with heavy ass weight? Why do you think BBs lift 6 days a week? Cause they recover fast as fuck.

Please just stop posting.

Also see>>39097452, assistance work can help.

>>39095292
Just lift heavier shit, you're not supposed to get a burn, your muscles are supposed to be obliterated.

Try this:
on your last set do as much reps as possible, keep lifting until your muscles say no, if on your last set you can do more than 5, then you're not lifting enough.

>>39097588
>These are the people giving advice on fit

>>39095408
everything 2-5 reps makes me feel extremely exhausted. Deadlifts are by far the worst.

>>39097472
Are you fucking retarded?
I'm dead serious.

Your entire fucking post is about muscle mass not strength.

Secondly strength workouts exist to get people strong not swole.
Back when the only way to get big was to lift heavy shit and lift it a lot there was no difference between strength and mass.

Somewhere along the way geared up fucking loons decided to create two distinct camps and huddle the stupid as fuck masses into each one.

If you look at the second post where I corrected myself you'll find out that you're a complete fucking moron who's parroting bullshit they barely understand and are picking out that one single thing that I admitted was a simple mistake because you honestly have no fucking idea of what you are talking about.

>>39097452
Actual lifters in the real world don't see bench squat and deadlifts as the reasons to go lift in the first place.
That's for fucking losers who will quickly get sick of lifting and drop out or get super serious about it and get on gear and not stay natty for long.

Everyone, litterally everyone see every lift as equal.

A 3x5 is not going to give you mass worth a fuck after your noob gains are over and you are not a teenaged boy - early to mid twenties man and fuck all else going in your life.
You are simply not going to have the recovery capability to do it.

You are going to have to drop the poundage and up the reps to continue to gain mass and strength.

Period.

>>39095292
Is this pic bait?
Because thats one of the most retarded routines ive ever seen

>>39096279
If im not mistaken a lot of PPL routines have deadz on "pull day" do they not? Ive been doing them on pull day this whole time. Since theyre also primarily a back exercise. If not please tell me an ideal PPL routine

>>39096500

This site tends to really stress the fact that deadz are important. And I keep hearing to do 1x5. Will this make my numbers do up without checking into snapp city?

>>39097112

Well my push is chest/triceps no? BP, dips, tricep extensions or incline bench all hit both muscle groups well. How is this not "enough"

Since this seems to be a routine thread...
Dont have time to do a PPLPPLx, or even an ULxULxx
Here is my 3 day full body. focus is on gaining a bit of mass particularly in the shoulders/ upper back/ arms, and slow strength progression in squats, diddlies and Power clean.


Monday:
>Snatch Grip High Pull: 4 x 5
>Squat: 4 x 8
>Overhead Press: 4 x 8
>W. Chinup: 4 x 6
>Cable Crossover: 3 x 15
>Barbell Curl: 3 x 10
>Hanging leg raise: 3 x 10

Wednesday:
>Deadlift: 5/3/1 + AMRAP set
>DB bench: 4 xx 8
>Kroc Row: r x 8
>Lateral DB raise: 3 x 15
>Skullcrusher: 3 x 12
>Neck Curls: 3 x 20

Friday
>Power Clean: 5 x 3
>Push press: 5 x 3
>Pause Squat: 3 x 6
>Pullup: 4 x 10
>W. Dip: 4 x 10
>Hammer curl: 3 x 15
>Hanging Leg raise: 3 x 10

>>39095292

As a natural lifter, there are two things that make you stronger, volume and frequency. As a natural lifter, there are two things that make you bigger, volume and frequency.

Just do a strength routine.