Natty lifting vs /Fraud/

they also die 20-40 years earlier

There's more to life than working out.

When you get older, and not even that old, maybe 40s, 50s, you risk a lot of negative side effects.

>>38675249
[citation needed]

>>38674150
Depends on what you want.

Honestly, your health may not even be are risk while juicing-depending on your genetics and how big you get/strong your cardiovascular health is.

Juice = amazing quick results with a potential cost to health.

Natty = natty

Say I juiced for 6 months as a beginning/entry level lifter.
Then I went natty

Obviously I would lose a lot of strength after I went natty....but would it be worth the kick start on my strength and size?

And what would be the health detriment/fallback after those 6 months?(if i continued to spend the same time and effort in the gym)

>>38675249
I'd never use steroids because I'm not a fucking retard or a pussy, but, this is just plain not true. Most steroid users are still kicking it fine. Arnold and Franco Columbo are still working out fine into their 70's (and mid 70's for Columbo).

>>38675382
You wouldn't lose a lot of strength.

If you lost any at all it would be very little.

The downside to juice is that once you start you become addicted to the results until you're way past the point of natty results.

If you only stay on for six months, then there won't be an issue.

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>>38675382
6 months of juicing you would look easy 1.5 year natty body. That entirely depend on the bikes your going to ride though. As mentioned already, you get addicted to riods because they give you almost super human willpower, strength and most importantly endurance. When you stop taking them you will see a dip in how much you can lift and for how long. It's a very shitty feeling getting off roids but you can do it.

>>38674150

yes natty gains are fucking worth it. most really fucking strong and aesthetic guys who also happen to be on roids didn't start doing them right from the get go. i've heard stories of gyms who have members that will fucking disown you for doing steroids before you're ready - typically for 5 or more years. if you don't toil away learning how to lift and how to follow an actual regimented strength and conditioning program then steroids aren't going to make you magically look like mike o'tren from your picture.

someone who roids for six months and doesn't know what the fuck he's doing is almost certainly NOT going to look better than a guy who's been training for three fucking years who by then knows a thing or two.

steroids fucking work but they aren't goddamn magic. they don't make up for a poor diet, shit training program, and terrible conditioning or any other number of bad habits that almost all beginners tend to have.

and even if what you said IS true - it's not, but just for the sake of argument - that someone roiding for six months would look better than a natty guy training for 3 years, that guy would still stall like crazy and stop making progress. why? because he relied on drugs to make up for all the shit habits i listed above that he hasn't trained himself out of yet.

stop whining. get on a good fucking program and learn how to eat right and get everything else in order before you think about tossing drugs into your toolbox. you're not fucking ready.

>>38675491

>You wouldn't lose a lot of strength.

yes you would. beginners barely even know how to get strong and typically know even less about nutrition. they wouldn't be able to maintain what the drugs gave them.

>If you only stay on for six months, then there won't be an issue.

unless you actually did this yourself and are speaking from firsthand experience you are just talking out of your ass.

>>38675620
I'm not thinking through a beginner's lense. More of a best case scenario. I forget how lost we are when we first begin training

>>38675249
Pfft, a cycle or ten will not kill a nigga if done right.

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>>38675566
Would you make exceptions in your negative view of gear users to people who are low test (say, 336ng/dl for example - namely, my example)?

Gains just won't come to me naturally, no matter if I've been training 1.5 years with a good diet and routine. And during cuts I lose shit tons of muscle even while getting enough protein and lifting 4x/week.

Thinking of hopping on later - kinda interested to see how anti-AAS people view legitimate need for vitamin T (most people are anti-AAS, I assume).

>>38675523
>endurance

Nope.. dbol and tren sap the fuck out of endurance.