Machines

>>38663520
You'll make fuck all gains.

They also take a lot longer to cover every bodypart, so your gym sessions will take several hours instead of ~1, and you'll also have very little control. By that I mean you'll be clumsy as fuck, and your athleticism won't improve a bit.

Really, though, how hard is it to just learn squats, deads, bench and ohp? They're all easy as fuck with the info in the sticky.

>>38663548
dead is overrated and useless in hypertrophy

>>38663756
U R FUCKING USELESS U FUCKING CUNT

>>38663756
get out

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>>38663548
could not disagree more with parts of this. for instance i have no trouble doing side laterals with say, 25's. but 25lbs on cable side laterals feels so much more difficult, and requires a great deal more control.

>>38664090
That's because you cheat using dumbbells.
Also go ahead and put the same weight on a bar and Smith and squat then compare

>>38663520
People here simply recommend what worked for them. You can go ahead and only use machines, maybe it'll work for you, I don't know. I never tried to use only machines, just like 100% of the people telling you not to use machines.

>>38664043
>>38664078
>le lifting for strength meme
fuck off you ape, people don't even need strength in this day and age

lifting is all about hypertrophy and aesthetics

>>38664110
thats .....part of my point

>>38664117
>implying you can get hypertrophy gainz with fuckall strength
Go ahead and continue using 10kg on the pec deck machine for 300 reps then lel

>>38663520
machine veteran here, madse exactly zero gains after 1 machine year. when i started freeweights i still could barely bench the bar etc. i know evrybody hates them here for muh movement pattern etc but nobody really knows what hes talking about. i can tell you i made zero gains and this seems to happen to all machinefags at my gym

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>>38664201
Woah... so I guess weight isn't weight after all.... fair enough dude

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>>38664201
Any proofs?

Anyway, look up Kieser Training in Germany. It's machines only but pretty expensive.

>>38663756
For back and traps, deadlift is fkn amazing. Same for wrists. Some people don't like it though, but whatever. I still think everybody should do heavy deads once a week, because it does help your back not look shit. I'm leaving it in there, because I do think OP should learn it with the other 3 I mentioned.

>>38664090
Different muscles. THe weight is spread out a little different. That being said, you can definitely have a lot of machine work in your routine, but you SHOULD be basing your routine mostly on barbell compounds to get big.

Also, any other parts you disagree with? You do definitely make a valid point for the lat raises, but it is largely anecdotal.

>>38664117
>I can't get my form right so my bench is under 1pl8
>A girl laughed at me in the gym so I'm gonna whine on 4chan instead of fixing the problem

Fuck off mate. Hypertrophy pretty much comes from lifting lots for most people.

>>38664201
Yeah this makes no sense at all. I use machines. I can feel the weight. I'm lifting it. I'm increasing the weight and lifting heavier. But according to you nothing is changing. So if I stay on this track I'll be able to lift hundreds of pounds on machines but 1. My body won't change. 2. I won't be able to lift heavy weights outside of a machine. I like your momscience bro.

This is how machines can help you make progress:
>Chins 3X5
>OHP 3X5
>Deads 1X5
>Then a finishing set each of lat pulldowns/machine side-laterals/glute-kickbacks ot get that last bit of stimulation.

This is how to make no progress and fuck your joints:
>Flat bench 3X10
>Peck-deck 3X10
>Cable cross-overs 3X10
>Triceps press 3X10
>Smith bench 3X10

>>38663520
The don't really train your stabilizer muscles
Worst offender of this is the Smith machine

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>>38663520
>why can't I just use machines
Because Arnold says you can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9zCgPtsups

>>38663520
Because you won't make many gains.

Back when I started I did an all machine routine recommended by a PT. It had a shitton of exercises and I didn't make much gains at all.

It took me about 90 minutes to complete each day, at that point, why not do SS or a different routine that has proven to work, have 40 minute days and make multiple times the gains you would normally make?

>>38663520
If all other factors are good (program, nutrition,..) using machines is completely ok.
You won't be the best powerlifter ever, but look at Markus Rühl for instance. He nearly only uses machines.

>>38664209
You use a lot more muscles than the one you're targeting just to keep the weights stable. You get none of that on a machine.

Machines are better if you have injuries. Nothing else is better for the machines. They're expensive pieces of shit that take up too much room.

>>38663520

In terms of mass gains.

Weightlifting (easy mode) > bodyweight exercises with added resistance like bags (medium mode) > pure bodyweight (hard mode) > machines (very hard and borderline retarded mode).

Would. Not. Suggest.

Either you do squat/bench/dls OR you do pull-ups/dips/push-ups preferably with a bag on your back.

There so no half-assing around the compounds or it is just that much harder.

>>38665074
Exactly

>>38663520
>>38664209
damn
its been so long i almost forgot my first waifu
best catwoman ever

machines are good both for hypertrophy and strength. You just need to have a bit of an idea which ones to use and how.

General wisdom is to go with compound exercises & a full-body strength routine first, at least for a few months. This will help you not get injured down the line, as you're probably a flabby piece of shit with weak tendons and joints right now.

Machines should come in later as isolation exercises. Once you've worked out for a few months (e.g. 4-6 months, which isn't very long in terms of building muscle) you will invariably notice that a muscle is lagging, either in terms of strength (if you care about strength in compound exercises such as DLs, bench, OHP, ...) or in terms of size (if you're in it for the aesthetics.)

At that point, the compound exercise will not allow you to appropriately progress; upping the weight doesn't work since that one muscle that's lagging is holding you back, and just doing more of it will hardly make you any progress, since your CNS/brain will automatically shift load away from the weakest muscle.

Then doing isolation exercises on e.g. a machine will allow you to specifically target that muscle and kick your progress back in gear.

Of course not all isolation exercises need to be done on a machine, but usually they can help in one way or another. E.g. even for curls, using a curling rack rather than just standing adds a tonne of isolation quality, and you can go longer and hit your biceps harder without fatiguing your core/back and starting to cheat by using momentum.

>>38663520
The only good machines are for legs

>>38663520
If you're consistent and use progressive overload, you'll make gains just fine.

>>38664117
>implying strength doesn't have looking good as a side effect
>implying more muscle mass doesn't increase survivability
>implying you weren't dropped on your head as a child multiple times