Did I switch to PPL too early?

>>38389543
No. Claiming you can do 5x5 to 1/2/3/4 is retarded. You'd have to eat a shit ton, sleep as much as you can, and even then you'd need to have the genetics for it.
Switching to a PPL is good for where you're at. Once you get to roughly 1/2/3/4 for reps on that switch to an intermediate routine.

>>38389569
Getting to 1/2/3/4 on a basic 5x5 beginner program is expected of any healthy adult male within one year, provided they actually try.

>>38389655
Did you do it on a 5x5? Or are you just spewing shit out of your ass?

Don't lie faggot

>>38389670
Not the poster above. I did it on SL in like 8 months. Just eat a lot and don't miss working out.

>>38389764
Starting bodyweight?

May help to point out starting weight was ~150

In my opinion, anybody interested in aesthetics should AT LEAST start with a UL, but preferably a PPL. Full body is for powershitters who want to bench, squat, and deadlift big weights while looking like fat pigs with no arm muscle. You made the right call.

>>38389543
If those were your 5x5 weights, then it's a fine time to switch to an intermediate program.

PPL is for roiders though. You'd be better off with Madcow or PHAT or PHUL imo

>>38389764
SL is 3x5 not 5x5

>>38389843
I did PPL for aesthetics up until now, it's been 6 months. Most of that time was a hard bulk. I still can't dead 2.5 plates. I do not recommend PPL to beginners anymore.

>>38390015
I'm just starting up PPL after a while of doing a 5x5 routine as well.

How much do you think I should drop the volume compared to a 5x5 bench at around 70% 1RM?

>>38389670
Everything except squat, but that's because I had bad squat form. After fucking around for along time, I went back to SS, actually did GOMAD, and pushed my squat to 330x5, and then pulled 475x1 shortly after that.

>>38390039
I'd probably stick with 3x5 twice a week PPLPPLx.

>>38389655
this is such fucking bullshit. Fuck off with that shit

>>38389543

PPL is top tier dogshit for anybody not natural.

>>38390109
Why don't you try trying? There are plenty of dudes that hit 1/2/3/4 within a year. I'm working on 2/3/4/5 now, and have already reached the 4 and 5.

Lots of guys hit 1/2/3/4 within a year. Those aren't particularly good numbers, just good first milestones for beginner lifters.

>>38390131
You're saying PPL is bad for roiders?

>>38390159

no program is bad for roiders really ;_;

>>38390143
>There are plenty of dudes that hit 1/2/3/4 within a year.
No the fuck it aint. Only good genetics get those numbers. Most peoples genetics aren't that good.

>>38390015
>lifting for 6 months
>I do not recommend PPL to beginners anymore
Nigger you are a beginner

>>38390199
What constitutes good genetics? The fact they reached beginner milestones within a year of training?

Most people don't fucking try, don't eat enough, skip workouts all the time, fuck around with the same weight over and over rather than trying progress, and are overall lazy faggots.

Most people don't reach this numbers, but most people could.

>>38390109
what the fuck are you talking about? 1/2/3/4 in a year is easy as fuck with 5x5

back when I started I got to 1/2/3/4 in 6 months and the stuff I did on top of SL5x5 didn't help with those lifts at all i.e. bicep curls and other vanity exercises

>>38390223
Yeah, I know

>>38389543
>I switched to PPL 2 weeks ago
>2 weeks
>expecting to see results in 2 weeks
>no comment on how the program has been going
>Did I fuck up?

how the FUCK are we supposed to know if you don't fucking know yourself or tell anything of value? I hate people like you so fucking much.

>>38390199
>plenty of dudes
>recent poll shows the vast majority of /fit/ hasn't hit it
>inb4 every is DYEL except me argument

>>38390261
>fuck around with the same weight over and over rather than trying progress

t. catback deadlifts

>>38390261
4 plates is fucking 200kilo deadlift. You cant get that in a 1 year of training, what the fuck. This is 4chan /fit/ e-statting like crazy

The people at my gym with those lifts took much longer to reach those and they haven't been slacking or doing it wrong.


>>38390377
They are fucking e-statting like crazy. Fucking shitdicks

Why does it matter? Srs question

I started lifting over a year ago but had no idea about routines and just fucked around for months in hypertrophy ranges and only recently got on PPL because it's fun

I might not be as strong as I should be because i used up all of my noob gains on unstructured training, wat do?

>>38390199
>Only good genetics get those numbers
dude like he said 1/2/3/4 is a beginner goal. it's the first sign you've gone from a total DYEL to someone whos taken their first steps into lifting weights. 1/2/3/4 is easily achievable by anyone within a year if you work out 3 times a week and pay attention to how you eat and sleep. by the time you've really learnt proper form and have the routine of training down you should already be doing 1/2/3/4. a year is much longer than it takes most.

>>38390418
>This is 4chan /fit/ e-statting like crazy
The most hilarious part is you can't ever find these guys in your gym. The people hitting these numbers are usually 2+ years in depending on their weight and height. I mean how many times have you seen some kid come in and start awkwardly with the bar then squat more than you within a few months?

>>38390453
It's typically an intermediate goal, not a beginner goal unless you're in the mid 200's you're not hitting it fast.

I think it just depends really. I've literally just begun to switch to TM from SL to see whether it's my program or other factors that are stalling my training. I put 2.5 on my squat with the TM method that wouldn't go on with SL so I think the program has run its course for me. desu in the end a lot of SL ends up being near weekly progressions anyway. the deload rate skyrockets at heavy weight and it usually takes 2-3 sessions to add another 2.5 kg (5lb) to a squat let's say at around 130 kg (~290 lb)

>>38390482
I was around 220 when I started lifting but on a simple background of body weight exercises and casual sports I already had the 1pl8 OHP and 2pl8 bench the day I walked into the gym. Squatting took the longest to get up to 3 but I got there in under 6 months and I was skipping leg days regularly.

Now I recognize some people start out much skellier but 12 months is a long time to improve.

>>38390564
this is why pl8 markers are stupid measures of competency in the gym imo

>>38390015
You're still a beginner, most PPLs aren't meant for strength so you're a dumb ass for thinking that a measure of strength means anything for aesthetics, and I'd bet you're everything was shit. I just did the math, and what you said could only be true if you only added ten pounds a week to your DL AND started with just the bar. Don't blame the program because you're an idiot and a failure.

>>38390456
thats because most gym goers don't know what the fuck they are doing, and the few that do care too much about aesthetics and not enough about strenght to justify bulking up and squatting 3 times a week

>>38390015
been doing PPL for 4 months and I can do 2.5 DL. I think you're doing something wrong.

>>38390159

Typo, meant to say it's shit for natties.

>>38390640
or its because people are assigning set numbers to every single person despite several factors which influence the speed at which those numbers can be attained.

beginner/intermediate/proficient/elite should be looked at entirely based upon weight, height and weight shifted, not set pl8 numbers.

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>>38389977
>SL is 3x5 not 5x5

>>38390706
i agree, but how is that relevant?
seriously, when was the last time you saw someone doing ss+gomad in your gym, even if it was a >100 lbs grill who could never attain these numbers in his life time?
people are not achieving 1/2/3/4 in a year not because they cant but because they are not even trying

>>38390418
I pulled 400 lbs within 7 months weighing 155 lbs. 4 plates isn't 200 kg btw.

>>38390377
Most of poll is skinnyfat losers engaging in debates about high bar vs. low.

>>38390456
More than me? None, because I actually lift. More than the rest? A few times. I usually see them doing squats for sets of 5, then I ask them "Starting Strength or Stronglifts?"

>>38390869
>then I ask them "Starting Strength or Stronglifts?"
What's the most common response

>>38390990
Honestly, split pretty evenly. They usually say they are doing a "version" of it that includes curls and shit, which is fine. Nobody ever stall their deadlift because they did 3x8 curls once or twice a week.

>>38390862
how is it not relevant? when you've got cunts saying they turned up at the gym weighing 100 kg and hitting the 2pl8 bench first time in there then lecturing people who weigh half what they do about how they should be hitting those numbers as easy as them. it's stupid and makes absolutely no sense because you are lumping people who weigh 100 kg and people who weigh 50 kg into the same category which they are never going to be when looking at a series of set numbers.

>>38391316
stop evading my question and answer, how many people have you actually seen doing ss+gomad or anything similar in your gym?

and no, "being half their weight" is NOT an excuse because if you are still a 50kg twink by the end of your linear progression program then you obviously didnt bulk hard enough (if at all) and therefore you have no right to complain about strenght standards because you literally are not even trying

>>38391470

You do realise that SS+GOMAD is, intentionally, a really fucking stupid thing for most lifters to do, right? Even most strength-focused lifters.

>>38391316
>as easy as them
if it took me 1 day then giving skellies 12 months is not "as easy as it was for me"

>>38391493
that because i added "something similar" to the question
also say that to zach who was squatting 3.5plates for reps after 6 months of ss and texas method

>>38391537

The cost of which was be ballooned up, would've needed six months to cut back to a decent weight class and still sucked at everything except the squat.

It's a short-term 'make this work at any costs' approach for people who have one shot at making the football team. There's a reason basically every other strength coach thinks its a shit way to break in new lifters.

>>38391470
how would I see whether they're doing gomad or not? i don't follow them home. I see plenty of people doing 5x5. I know of plenty of people doing 5x5. I know plenty of people who've done well on 5x5.

i also have no idea where you pulled the "50kg twink by the end of your linear progression program" from seeing as what I was saying was that starting weight is an important factor as is their height which determines how much weight they can carry without being a massive fat cunt.

>>38391510
yeah? what i'm saying is that the pl8 standards set retarded precedent where people who've literally no idea of the other side give their expectations of people from the other side. i'm not even a victim of the long drawn out meme. with muscle memory and training i've got my squat back at 130 kg in 4 months after losing it all due to an operation.

>>38390199
You haven't tried lad have you. Stop wasting your time with PPL. GET on a powerlifting routine.

>>38392901

Why would a powerlifting routine work any better for that than a general strength routine?

>>38392932
PPL isn't a general strength routine.

>>38392932
>why would a powerlifting routine work for increasing powerlifting exercise results
???

>>38390143
>I'm working on 2/3/4/5 now, and have already reached the 4 and 5.
I know those feels.

Seems like 3 plate bench and 2 plate OHP is so far away.

Serious though I don't think 2/3/4/5 is at all symmetrical progression.

>>38392968

Powerlifting routines care about the biggest totals. One of those lifts doesn't get counted for that and another is usually relegated to secondary status because it interferes with bringing up the other lower body lift.

>>38393013
What is 5/3/1

>>38393013
SL counts as a powerlifting routine and includes all of them
>is usually relegated to secondary status because it interferes
you know you can not relegate something to secondary status if you don't want to? you're like a woman reading her magazine and thinking the advice is useless if you don't follow the program to the letter

>>38393021
>>38393031

Neither of those are powerlifting routines.

>>38390782
people actually do barbell rows?

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>>38393059
I should've known you were baiting all along.

>>38393083

They aren't.

They're strength routines, but there's a difference between that and a powerlifting routine.

>>38393059
they both are
you think a powerlifting routine is a routine that consists only of bench, squat and dl? that's like thinking a football practice is just an hour of playing football each time.

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I started lifting with SL for 8 months, had some serious strength gains. My only regret was that I should have squatted way less. I switched to PPL since then.

my stats when I finished were something like

>305 squat
>245 DL
>180 Bench
>100 OHP

This is coming starting as a fatty. The worst part about the squating was that after I lost a lot of weight I ended up having to go back into my larger jeans because my thighs got too fucking huge. I'd recommend any recovering fatties be aware of this.

>>38393112

No. A powerlifting routine is one that's intended to create the biggest total when competing in the sport of powerlifting. This can involve a fuckton of the competition lifts or very little of them.

But neither routine is intended to do that.

>>38393121
T-Rex mode?

>>38393121
who cares what size the jeans are as long as they fit? it's not like somebody's looking at the label

>>38393133
Then name q powerlifting routine.

>>38393180

Sheiko
Westside (although primarily intended for geared rather than raw)
Deitmar
A metric fuckton of others.

There is a variant of 5/3/1 intended for powerlifting. The differences are quite notable from the base routine.

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>>38390782

>>38393171
kinda, but my deadlift is just really weak w.r.t. my squatting power. I think it comes down to grip strength.

>>38393178
well it's not just the number, it's the fact that they fit awkwardly being loose at the waist but fitting tight in the thighs.

>>38393200
You mean strength routines?

>>38390564
>there are people on this board who will believe this is true

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>>38393121
>305 squat
>245 DL

what in the fuck?

>mfw 100 ohp, 240 DL, 165 squat

>>38393231

Some people are much more proficient at squatting than deadlifting, due to either proportions or weaknesses in stuff that's used in the deadlift more than the squat.

Far more people just squat high as shit.

>>38393203
luckily they make jeans in many different cuts
>>38393237
squatting is so much more fun tbqh

>>38393231
my grip strength is pretty weak while my legs were strong from carrying my fat ass for 20 years.

>>38393214
No you dense fuck, notice how these routines have a shitton more volume that the ones you posted? How they don't have a 1:1 bench to ohp rati? That's because these routine were literally designed with powerlifting in mind. These are not conditioning routines or general strenght routines you can run in the background while preparing for your football season or whatever. There's a big difference.

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>>38393261
lmao senpai, you got baited so fucking hard.

>>38393121
can someone explain to me why i can press 100lb and continue to progress but have been stalled at 1plate on my bench for two months. my lifts are nowhere near this, except my press

>>38393280
>le i was just pretending to be retarded faec

>>38390199
LOL

If you're a HEALTHY male you can reach 1/2/3/4 around a year.

But when you fuck around in the gym doing retarded brosplits and not eating, you'll be lucky to get anywhere close to that...

You'll make more gains in the long term by skipping the bro splits/PPL for a year or two, then introducing them when you can actually move decent weight.

>>38393293

Most likely? You have poor bench technique and/or press form.

I will probably get flamed, but I'll ask anyway:

If I only have time to workout twice, maybe even once a week, what kind of program should I use?

I'm a beginner, a weakling, a skinny fat nerd

DL: 100 pounds
Squat: 140
OHP: 60
Bench: 90

I'll follow every single dietary plan since I have no problems with eating discipline, but I really don't have enough time to adhere to the 3, 4x a week programs

My goal is realistic: I just want to be able to 2x my strength

5'7, 145 pounds

>>38393315

If you're only training twice a week and you have time on those days, you generally want a full body routine. Something like SL can be adapted very easily to fit a two-day schedule, depending on which days you have available.

>>38393331
I'll definitely schedule non back to back days

say Tuesday + Thursday/Friday every week

>>38390564
I'm with you brother, played rugby as a kid and had 1/2/2/3 the day I walked in the gym for the 1st time, now at 1.5/3/3.5/5 after a few months fucking about with SS/SL/TM

>>38393083
Nah m8 5/3/1 is just a strength routine, NOT a powerlifting routine

Even Wendler says it himself...

>>38393338

Tues+Fri would probably be the best, if you have the option. The more evenly you can space out the workouts the better.

>>38393376
thanks bro

since I'm spacing them out like that, would you recommend squatting every workout?

I don't know why, but I just enjoy squatting more than the other exercises

I find the OHP the hardest thing to do. My shoulders are pathetic

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>>38393202

>>38393397

You could try it. Most beginner routines will have you squatting every session (and because you're only training twice instead of three times a week, the added volume on SL isn't as big a deal). The other option is squat once and deadlift once - you can do more volume on the deadlift if you're not also squatting in that session.

>>38390418
>4 plates is fucking 200kilo deadlift
l2math
4 plates is 20 kg x 4 x 2 + 20 kg (bar) = 180 kg.

Even if you were considering plates to be 25 kg, it would be 220 kg.

How the fuck did you get 200 kg?

>>38393315
>>38393397
if you can recover in time there's not reason not to squat every time

in your shoes I'd probably decide on some basic compound exercises I try to do every time then add on stuff if I had the extra energy to do some more since I've managed to get my ass to the gym. something like

tue:
bench
squat
ohp

fri:
squat
dl
bicep curl

then the additional stuff would be like lat pulldowns, dips, rows, shrugs, calves, peck fly, delt fly etc. if you see a machine or a dumbbell exercise you'd like to try just go for it. start out light and get the proper form. depending on your energy levels you could add 1 or 2 things per workout or none if you're feeling exhausted. it's nice to get some variety and mix it up and you might find a workout you really like doing.

>>38393471
this is really helpful, thanks

I'll follow this with some accessories thrown in

>>38391537
>>38391556

just gonna point out he did it 4months not 6.

i strongly doubt the aggressive pace of squat progression ss asks for is possible without something near gomad level. I do 1/2 gomad and recently swapped to alternating deadlifts and squats just cause squat volume was tearing my body up


OT: my progression in 3months is

press 65 -> 120
bench 85 -> 162.5
squat 95 -> 215
deadlift 135 -> 290

and thats with a couple weeks of having to leave out lower body. at this point I cant see it being possible taking longer than something like the end of January before I get 1/2/3/4 which is way less than 12 months. people are just self-defeatist babies

>>38389655
Lol

>>38393570
height, weight?

that's insane progress. Did you start way lower than you should've?

>>38389543
100% does not matter

>>38393570
Nah m8, i'm pretty sure you just won the genetic lottery.
Most mortals like me are doomed to a life of mediocre lifts, it doesnt matter how hard i work out or what i eat i just cant seem to lose wei- i mean, put weight on the bar. You can't fight genetics, it's just literally impossible. And honestly i'm getting tired of how blessed lifters and the media keep repeating how any healthy man should be to achieve 1/2/3/4 within a year. Well guess what you bigots, i have been powerlifting and drinking a barrel of milk for the last 10 years, am nowhere close to 1/2/3/4 and there's nothing unhealthy about my body, you got that? I'm not gonna let you impose your unrealistic beau- strenght standards on me anymore.

#mybodymyroutine
#healthyateverytotal

>>38393790
preach it

For fuck's sake. 1/2/3/4 is possible for anyone here. If a 3x5/5x5 stops working and doesn't get you there switch to something else. This isn't rocket science.

>>38393231

It's far more common than you think. I can do 5 pl8 high bar squats but I can barely DL 4.5. My torso/arms ratio is bad enough that I have to lower my hips too much to get into a good position, it blows.

>>38393859
Oly lifter?

>>38393894
No?

>>38393695
6'2 160 -> 185

i didnt start way lower. most people arent aware you can add 10lbs on squats and 15-20 on deadlifts early on as a skelly so they waste a bunch of time

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>>38390109
I'm just a noob but I hope it's possible. But who knows, maybe I'll stall soon. Doesn't feel like it though, I'm still progressing most workouts.

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>>38390109
>>38393790
Fuck, I wish I could filter you faggots. Just because you fail at lifting properly, you go around spouting bullshit when most committed lifters are realistically reaching 1/2/3/4 in around a year. I was a skelly without a formal sports background, I skated for years so if anything I was skinnier than most. All it takes is EATING, SLEEP, and for the faggots that stall, FORM. If you are a weak faggot after working on this, you're doing something wrong and should figure out what's wrong instead of blaming it on muh genetics.

>>38394516
Ebin CAPITOL WORDS may may with ebin 1234in a month memay

>>38394549
I don't get why non-lifters even post on this board. What's the point you miserable faggot? Some people want to better themselves rather than do nothing and bring others down.

I did sl and enjoyed it, however i had to add exercises like chins, dips, curls , core... It took so long time to get through a pass, and you could only exercise 3 times a week.

I switched to ppl and I like it, i can do shorter gym pass and do it 5 times a week.

Is PPL really that bad? I'm not that interested in big numbers on my lifts, i care more about health and not looking skelly.

>>38393790
Nice troll nigga.

>>38394516
>>38394589

Not those people you're talking to, but listen:

Not everyone has the same potential. Not everyone has the same ratio of fast twitch to low twitch muscle fibers. For some people, reaching 1/2/3/4 take a lot longer than for others.

>>38393448
He probably divided 405lbs in half. Fucking amerifat education.

>>38389655
This is obviously b8, but getting to any arbitrary level after an arbitrary timeframe doesn't account at all for history.

A mate of mine starting lifting around the same time I did. He reached 1/2/3/4 in just a few months, and I took about three years.

The fact is, he basically grew up playing sports and when he left school he became a bricklayer and has basically worked out every day.

I grew up being fairly sedentary playing vidya and now I have a coding job and work from home.

So I took three years to reach 1/2/3/4 from a starting point where I had to take a rest after walking from my car to the bench, and fuck anyone that claims it should be easy.

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>>38393448
Math checks out. 200kg would take 9 plates total.