>vegans in charge of not being fucking insane

>>37390717
B-but you don't understand. Animal products cause heart disease and are bad for you fucking carnist

>Reminder that no society was ever purely vegan because until supplementation was a thing your shitty meme diet would literally kill you

>Humans were never meant to eat meat!

They said

>>37390717
>Reminder that no society was ever purely vegan because until supplementation was a thing your shitty meme diet would literally kill you

>>37390717
Fun fact: It is actually impossible for a pregnant woman to be on a vegan diet without becoming anemic.

My cousin has a four month old that she breast feeds while vegan. If anything the baby is overweight and she makes sure to stay on top of her suppliments. Cutest fucking baby around.

>>37391423
>My cousin
Sure bud

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>>37391459
Stabil

>charged with neglect
I need a source for this article. While I can believe they lost the baby, I don't belive they'd get a neglect charge for this.

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>>37390762
except ancient indians, monks, gladiators etc

also why does the fact most older societies were not vegan justify you killing animals now?

>>37391294
Does not refute veganism

>>37391372
The American dietetics association would disagree...

>>37391294
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

Also is not an argument against veganism...Most societies thrived because of slavery and conscription...so thats justified now?

ITT: Not 1 justification for modern man, especially in the west to kill animals.

>>37391519
kys senpai

>>37391505
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371172/French-vegan-couple-face-jail-child-neglect-baby-died-vitamin-deficiency.html

>>37391539
>i cant justify killing animals so im gonna tell people to kill themselves XD

>>37391519
There he is.

Why do they always feel the need to respond to multiple posts?

>A baby died because of veganism, let me dance around that issue and defend veganism

>>37391519
they still ate dairy and milk nigga.

the vegan diet on ethics grounds was invented ~150 years ago by an american prude who thought it would REKT your SEX DRIVE (he was right)

>>37391519
>the fact that past people who were also humans couldn't be vegan doesn't refute veganism now here's an article about ancient hominids being vegetarian and that proves that modern humans shouldn't eat meat

>>37391566
The baby did not die because of veganism though.
> a balanced diet without corpses or animal secretions will kill me!!

>>37391571
Not all - it is irrelevant anyway
citation needed on your second part. If you get a low sex drive because you are not eating corpses then i dont know what to say to you.

> 7.2 billion people
> vegans helping stop over population by killing offspring
> people getting angry.

My autism is making me miss the point why people are angry on this topic?

>>37391599
> the fact that most modern civilisations due to a number of factors could not be exclusive vegans does not refute veganism for modern man

> early ancestors (before civilisation and the migration) were mostly veg, so it debunks the point twice... different times though... you didnt read the link

>>37391611
Here, guy, lemme justify killing animals to you.
I don't give a shit about them.
They're tasty. End of story.

>>37391630
That is not justification for killing

> i dont give a shit about your mom and i like the way she tastes so il kill her

see how it does not justify it?

>>37391557
there is nothing to justify

its simply nature you dumbass

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>>37391557
>justify killing animals
>there are universal morals and codes
>seeking approval from others

who do we have to justify our choices to? you? ayyy lmao

>>37391632

Yes it does justify it idiot.
The only difference is one is legal the other one isnt.

stay mad vegan cuck.

>tfw just had 600g tbone steak

>>37391638
>appeal to nature

so you dont think you need to justify killing and causing suffering to sentient beings (when there is no reason to do so)

>>37391640
Hurr durr ethics are not material so everything is right or subjective....but keep people locked up who kill children, even tho its subjective tho

yes you need to justify killing and causing suffering to other sentient beings.

why cant you do it?

>>37391654
the vegan won't understand this

>>37391632
False equivalency. My mom is a human. Humans value human life over other animal life. Therefore, you killing her is unjustified in our society.
There. Fuck yourself, you hair-shirt wearing hippy.

>>37391654
> im a cuck and whatever the law says then i will believe it is ethical without question

> slavery was legal so it was once moral and now isnt

How about you get a justification that you do not reject in the human context.
>hurr durr i ate an animal corpse surely i win this debate durr

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>>37391618
Probably because vegans are easily taunted and baited. Endless trolling possibilities because anything they say can be countered.

>>37391632
>That is not justification for killing

Killing doesn't require justification. Killing is the way of the world. Killing is how humans conquered this planet.

Killing is love. Killing is life.

>>37391669
That is not a flase equivalence and you did not answer the question. The fact humans value other human life more than animals is not justification to kill or cause suffering to animals.

ITS SO SIMPLE JUST GIVE ME A JUSTIFICATION TO KILL ANIMALS THAT YOU WOULD ALSO ACCEPT AS JUSTIFICATION TO KILL HUMANS

>>37391632
>Implying your vegan ass has the strength to overpower a little, older woman
Seriously there nothing wrong with vegetarians
It's always the vegans who are moronic

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>>37391670

>he thinks there is such a thing as morality outside the context of intra-societal convention

>>37391671
yeah look at the guy in this thread using logic and asking for someone to justify killing without resorting to appeal to nature fallacies name calling or i ate a steak...im getting so rustled

>>37391697
>didnt answer question

>>37391698
> not justifying stabbing animals
pro tip : morals could be anywhere as it is an idea.
hurr durr morals dont exsist so its ok to put a baseball bat to a dogs head or throw kittens off buildings

>>37391690
As soon as animals have the same sentiment sure

>>37391690
>caps lock activated
>violent key strokes
>pulsating neck veins

This causes heart diseases.

>>37391714
what?
That is not justification.

So... what trait absent in animals, that if absent in humans would justify you killing them?

NAME THE TRAIT

>>37391690

>ITS SO SIMPLE JUST GIVE ME A JUSTIFICATION TO KILL ANIMALS THAT YOU WOULD ALSO ACCEPT AS JUSTIFICATION TO KILL HUMANS

Why would anyone justify themselves to you? People have been killing animals and eating meat since the dawn of humanity, if you read up on anthropology that wouldn't be something to "justify", just the way of the world.

But, I'm sure you'd rather keep shooting judgmental, simplistic, moralizing opinions out of your ass.

>>37391718

See >>37391720

Read up on evolution, natural selection, anthropology, history and chemistry, then come back.

Your opinion is worthless because it contains no information, merely judgment for the behavior of others.

>>37391716
nah senpai, i just put it in caps to make sure people read it

>>37391720
so you cant justify it then.
Humans have been keeping slaves and killing other humans since the dawn of humanity.... so using your logic enslaving and killing other humans is fine because we have done it for a long time

Im not shooting anything out my ass and im nt been judgemental... why are you getting so sensitive to a question (hurr durr vegans are pussys)

>>37391690
Yes, the fact that humans don't value animal life as much as we value human life IS an argument for killing animals.
The killing of animals provides us a benefit that is tangible (nutritious, good-tasting food source, leather, fur, etc.) without a cost that is too great to pay. It's a simple cost-benefit analysis.
Your request that I give you a reason to kill animals that is acceptable for killing humans is one I don't have to satisfy because animals are NOT the same as humans. They're not. Not as far as we're concerned. They're sentient, sure, but they're dumb and we keep them alive strictly for utility.

>>37391718
>what trait absent in animals, that if absent in humans would justify you killing them?

Their inability to build a legal system prohibiting you from killing them.

There you go.

/thread

>>37391661
no i dont need to justify the rules of fucking nature retard

and they dont suffer you fucking moron

they a sedated and killed the most humane way so fags like you wont feel so bad

you look at animals as intelligent creatures, they arent and they dont have muh feelings like you do. They only have instincts, they only react, like when you see meat and run for your life

Theres literally nothing different between eating a pig and eating a banana

>>37391729
> still not justifying causing suffering and killing
natural selection and evolution, chemistry and history does not justify you stabbing animals when you can eat something that didnt require an animal to be enslaved and stabbed.

Just give me 1 justification for a person not in a survival situation to stab animals...

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>>37391661
>you need to justify killing and blah blah blah

8/10 for getting me to respond in the first place breh

>why cant you do it?
top kek m8 i don't think u understand how this works

>still seeking approval from others

>>37391730
>enslaving and killing other humans

Enslaving and killing other humans is a social construct, while eating animals is survival and an evolutionary advantage. How are these remotely similar in your mind?

>>37391743

>predators eating prey requires justification

There are people who unironically think this?

Do you require your cat to justify itself after killing a mouse?

>>37391718
Survivability m8 we are apex predators animals will kill us just the same, feel free to let a dangerous animal kill you when it's hungry, or you could kill it going against everything you believe so whatever

>>37391661
It's an easy way to get the nutrients I need to survive, because I have better things to do than spend days preparing means to get all my micronutrients? Plus, not all protein sources are equal; there's a lot of evolutionary research that humans amassed such large brains BECAUSE we eat meat, since they're so high in calories we could afford to have larger brains.

Vegans are literally retarded.

>>37391743
Hey, you wanna know something interesting? It's been proven that plants can respond to stimuli, which literally puts them at the same level of comprehension of their surroundings as animals. It's true that we can't yet prove that they feel pain in the same way as we do, but, barring the pain of their death (which many meat producers do as much as they can) there is no difference between killing a plant and an animal.
If we killed them 100% pain-free, there would be literally nothing wrong with eating meat. You, sir, are a raging faggot.

>>37391732
1. No it does not - just like me valuing the life of my kin more than strangers does not justify me killing when strangers when i have no reason to do do.

2. >nutritious (it isnt)
you can eat anything else, and wear other things - this is not justification.
(if i killed your mom and wore her skin and tried to justify it by saying i got something useful from it that would not be justification)

Ive never said animals are the same as humans. Bu you still need to justify killing them, just like i cant abuse a dog... i need to justify harming it....its a very very simple concept to grasp.

You never did name the trait...

>>37391736
So you would be all for killing disabled, retarded, old, mentally ill.... sure

>>37391737
>appeal to nature fallacy
You do need to justify causing suffering...they do suffer.

Yeah so if i wanted to slice your thorat open or keep you in factory farmed conditions all your life then bolt you in the head you would consider it justified because you didnt suuffer.

>nothing different between eating a pig and a banana
Then you are retarded

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>>37391753
>>37391745

vegans don't understand there's a difference between an action being justified and an action being "good or morally right" whatever that means

just think of America dropping A-bombs on japan, most would agree this was a justified action to save even greater losses. but whether or not it was a "good" thing to do is another matter

tldr vegans are children who never grew up and can't accept the harsh reality that is life

>>37391670

>MY MORALS NEED TO BE EVERYONE ELSE MORALS

fuck off cuck, if the law gets changed tomorrow and its legal for me to rape your boipucci and kill you after that i will 100% do this.

>>37391768
vegans who own cats make me giggle m8

>>37391789
>So you would be all for killing disabled, retarded, old, mentally ill.... sure

Nice slippery slope there, you forgot to mention killing babies.

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>>37391710
>hurr durr morals dont exsist so its ok to put a baseball bat to a dogs head or throw kittens off buildings

Vegans are worse, they torture babies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/01/20/baby-contracts-rare-case-of-scurvy-after-drinking-only-almond-milk/

>>37391745
> still cant justify it

>>37391753
what the fuck....you honestly think you eating pre packaged meat is you been a lone alfa wolf surviving in nature paahahahahahahahahaha
>sill not justification as ou can buy any other foods

>>37391768
>people actually think they are predators when they live in 2016 and go to the shop

yes you need to justify causing suffering to animals - which you cannot do.

no a cat is an obligate carnivore and has little moral agency.

>>37391770
>vegans woukd not defend themselves against a threat
>still not justification

>>37391777
nope, its cooked food, yes meat played a role. But how is that relevant to you now?

>>37391789
This argument is going in circles. As long as you continue the fallacious belief that animals deserve the same moral treatment as humans you will forever be a retard. Enjoy your nogains and limp dick, faggot.

>>37391811
>no a cat is an obligate carnivore and has little moral agency
>and has little moral agency

So do I, motherfucker. You should add philosophy to your reading list.

>you honestly think you eating pre packaged meat is you been a lone alfa wolf surviving in nature

That's not what being a predator is. Being a predator means I get to eat weaker animals. Them coming prepackaged is a convenience, nothing more.

>>37391786
even if plants were sentient then why does that justify you stabbing animals?
(plants are not sentient, none of what you wrote is evidence for this)

>>37391790
A- bombs have nothing to do with you not been able to justify stabbing animals...keep on topic

>>37391797
Nope, im asking you to justify it - which you clearly cannot which is why you are lashing out like a cuck

>>37391810
1 baby means all vegan milk substituent is bad despite plenty of vegan babies

>>37391817
FUCKING LEARN TO READ YOU DENSE TWAT

Im saying they have the right to not be killed when there is no justification but absolute retard

name the trait absent in animals that if absent in your mom would be justification for me killing her

>>37391789
HUMANS ARE OMNIVORE

do you want to defy your role in this world? fine go ahead but at least shut the fuck up about it

vegans are like fags who make being homosexual their personality and not leaving it as their sexuality

moral and ethics are not nature, its artificial caused by the weakest link

>>37391843
Humans have more in common with herbivores but w/e

You can thrive not eating corpses or animal secretions so that does not justify killing them.

>>37391828
nice dodge
>a bombs have nothing to do with...
>however let me bring up slavery, laws, history

you've had a good run and we've had some fun, but it seems like you're at the end of your rope

>>37391842
>Im saying they have the right to not be killed when there is no justification but absolute retard
>Im saying they have the right
>Im saying

Exactly, you're saying, and you're a fucking nobody. Why do you entitle yourself with producing a moral outline for the rest of us?

>>37391853
>You can thrive

Kinda like the baby in OP thrived, huh?

right im off

None of you can justify killing animals in a non hypocritical way (that you would rejct in human context)

Animals are not equal and we have more capacity to suffer which is why it is worse make a human suffer than a sheep, or an adult than a baby...however none of you can name the trait absent in animals that if absent in humans would justify killing them

> /fit/ is where clever people who read studies post
> where alphas go...these alfas think killing weaker beings without justification is alpha
> thinks eating fruits, veggies, seeds, legumes, grains is unhealthy

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>>37391870
because he has the right answers man, at noon on the next Friday 13th he'll tell us how the universe really came to be

>>37391883

Ahahahahahahaha stay mad plantfag, don't forget to supplement your tittie milk someday because it is literally poison.

>>37391853
Large canines, high aggression and unable to digest grasses
yeah sure more in common with herbivores

>>37391854
I was using it in context of a point, you need to learn to read...
>still not justifying
vegans care about people getting bombed.

>>37391870
so refute my point...name the trait in animals that means it is justified to kill them without a reason

>>37391883
food IS the justification
goddamn you're retarded and sound like a redditor

>>37391883
You have to go back

>>37391883
if you were stranded on an island with nothing but a pig

would you leave the pig as your bro and die of starvation fast or would you kill the pig and live longer before you die?

>>37391900
>so refute my point...name the trait in animals that means it is justified to kill them without a reason
>without a reason

Literally nobody is saying one should walk around clubbing dogs in the park or harpooning whales for no reason.

The reason is that it's an effective way to procure large amounts of nutritious, affordable food.

>so refute my point

You have no point, just a lack of understanding of the most basic principles of biology.

>>37391690
>The fact humans value other human life more than animals is not justification to kill or cause suffering to animals.
Yes it is. It's called morals. Although I agree animals shouldn't necessary suffer. Adn they mostly don't.

>>37391900
>you need to learn to read...
i feel sorry for the people who have to put up with you irl, take your own advice

>>37391888
trips confirmed, green vege man will tell us the truth

>>37391900

evolution

>>37391901
no it is not because you can get every other food that is not a corpse

>>37391917
very clearly has a point, its been spelt out.... name the trait....or justify...

>people on /fit/ think meat is nutricious

>people on /fit/ think its more affordable than the cheapest food on the planet

>>37391789
>Yeah so if i wanted to slice your thorat open
You keep confusing your own species with animals, dumbass. You make an idiot out of yourself.

>>37391900
>without a reason
nutrition and products is the reason.

>>37391916
>>37391882

please comment on these vegan fag

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>>37391937

You do realize that the vast majority of animals we eat today were created by humans through artificial selection, bred and nourished through thousands of generations?

You do realize that all of these species would die out the moment humans stopped eating animal products?

Why do you want to make cows, pigs and chickens extinct?

In fact, to use your words, how do you JUSTIFY it?

>pic related, it's a Serbian farmer and her cow; the cow has fed the entire family for 15 years

>>37391937
>no it is not because you can get every other food that is not a corpse
It's not as tasty.

>>37391937
So if I cut down an ear of corn, is the husk of corn not part of its corpse?
Is its seeds, which I eat, not its attempt at spreading its biological material?

>>37391933
you are not refuting anything you are just insulting...why dont you actually use your brain.

>>37391946
no i dont, if it is not justification to do it to humans then what trait absent in animals makes it justified?

>>37391957
You can buy any other food, so that is not justification. This would only be justification if you was in a survival situation.
It would be justification to eat another human in these situation...therefore your morals would be consistent and non hypocritical.

>>37390717

> vegans will attempt to justify this

>>37391977
>It would be justification to eat another human in these situation

So, you're saying you would be prepared to kill another person to increase your chances of survival?

>>37391937
>very clearly has a point, its been spelt out.... name the trait....or justify..
they named numerous traits and reasons, but you refute them all, because you're biased. So why do you keep asking for them? No matter what we say won't convince you.

>>37391965
dude he just wants everyone to go vegan so that all those animals in farms can live great lives when they get set free. people will jump at the chance to pay large sums of money to feed and house them over their lifetime and they'll end up having happy full lives that definitely won't end in starvation.

>>37391965
>>37391975

These should end the thread desu if the vegan had any concept of rational discussion.

>>37391962
why, they are strawmen and do not justify killing animals

>>37391965
they would not go extinct so i dont need to justify it.

>>37391971
as tasty as you make it, also taste does not justify killing, you would reject cannibals using this reason....

>>37391975
nope because they are not animals.
you also did not justify killing animals

>>37391977
>you are not refuting anything you are just insulting

funny because that is exactly what you did
when will vegans learn

if you're gonna be a vegan more power to you but please don't reproduce if your diet is literally shitty enough to kill a baby

>>37391977
>You can buy any other food
dude, I don't want other food. It's not as good, not as healthy and not as tasty.

>>37391993

No, I think he wants to let those animals into the wild where they will surely prosper after living sheltered lives for 1000 generations and literally been spoon-fed and protected from wild predators since birth.

>>37391987
yes, if i was in a survival situation. Still you are not justifying stabbing animals

>>37391992
Nobody has named the trait. Point out where they did... or you do it.

>>37391999
obviously not because it does not justify stabbing animals.

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>>37391977

>yfw OP is not even vegan but just a top tier troll

>>37392000
>they would not go extinct so i dont need to justify it.

Then what do you would happen to those species? Let's take cows for example.

>>37391987
Did you expect real morals from a vegan? Lol. They're all holier than thou as long as they're in the comfort of modern society.

>>37392000
>strawmen when they are literally what the thread and OP is about

Nice logic

btw plant are living beings as well

they have just as much feelings and conscious as animals

>>37392017
you're right i forgot the land owners would love to have large amounts of grazing livestock just take over their plots of land and provide no income for them. vegans are so smart dude

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>>37392012
nope, im asking you to justify stabbing animals - which you cannot do... another wasted post where you could of proved me wrong.

>>37392014
It is, you just dont know how to cook.... just because you dont find other food tasty that is not justification to kill...a cannibal could of used your post to try and justify eating humans, you would reject your own reasoning then,

>>37392017
yeah yeah thats exactly what i think
>what are sanctuaries
>every cow would get hunted by every fox in the country

>>37392030

this, vegans just wanna feel good about themselves, it's all about them, them, them... they don't actually care about any other living beings, they are vegan purely because it makes them feel good.

it's actually gross.

>>37392022
>Nobody has named the trait
Numerous people did. You just don't acknowledge them, cause you're biased. The major one is that we're humans and animals aren't. Which is pretty straightforward argument for any normal person.

>>37391519
>ancient indians, monks, gladiators were vegan

'no'

>>37391883
The have given you plenty of justification you retard

Animals do not have the ability to create electrical components. Among a million other reasons that make them lesser beings. There is no 'one trait'

You're trying so hard to sound smart it's actually cringe worthy

>>37392022
>yes, if i was in a survival situation

So, you would be willing to take a life. You would commit the most selfish of all possible acts, that is to sacrifice another man's entire existence. You would show no honor, no empathy and suspend your morals the moment your precious existence is in minor danger.

>>37392042

yeah yeah thats exactly what i think
>sanctuaries
>foxes

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>>37392043
yep, just like this dudes justification thing, its all about him, he needs you to justify your actions to him him him

>>37392042
Cannibals eat people. People aren't animals. Comprende?

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>>37392060

kek, this

>>37391661
>>37391977
>sentient beings
Animals don't have thoughts or feelings other than baser instincts, excluding some apes and Dolphins.

>>37392042

>every cow would get hunted by every fox in the country

What are you even...I can't even laugh at you anymore.

>>37392024
>i cant justify it or name the trait so il call him a troll

>>37392027
some would die some wouldnt...they would eat grass

>>37392030
>>37392043
yeah im asking you to justify stabbing animals (which you cannot do) so you have a massive inferiority complex and assume im just trying to be better than you....

>>37392041
still not justification for stabbing animals

>>37392044
then point me to the posts where they did.
>WE ARE HUMANS AND ANIMALS ARE NOT
So thats the trait?? ... so if i was to transfer your conciousness into a computer would i not require justification to destroy the computer?

>>37392045
yes

>>37392050
so you cant name the trait....so all the humans that cannot make electrical components can be killed without reason and its justified according to your logic yes?

>>37392056
>killing to survive in a survival situation shows no honour or empathy.

ahahahahaha is not a refute.

Yes sanctuaries take care of thousands of animals all over the planet along with preservations...

what a shocker. Still no non hypocritical justification.

There's someone who I'm apparently friends with on Facebook that constantly posts vegan bullshit.

She also has pet dogs and cats.

Assuming she isn't forcing veganism on to the pets, she's in all likelihood still feeding them battery farmed animals, right?

>>37392093
>so if i was to transfer your conciousness into a computer would i not require justification to destroy the computer?
you can't and probably won't be ever able to do that, so that's futile argument

>>37392093
>some would die some wouldnt...they would eat gras

Ahahahahahahahahahaha

>what is an ecosystem
>what are predators
>what is the food chain

NIGGER DO YOU UNIRONICALLY THINK FUCKING COWS WOULD SURVIVE IN THE WILD? ARE YOU GENUINELY RETARDED?

>>37392042
what a shitty comic

>i am silly

except anyone who actually thinks the same way as that girl would also not give a shit about what vegans do, but would rather they just shut the fuck up and stay out of their hair
>implying a vegan has the charisma or intelligence to actually interfere with someone's beliefs

fucking lol, top delusion right there

the problem wider society has with vegans is you simply will not fucking shut up about it, a vegans favourite topic of conversation is veganism and it gets really really fucking tiring because your arguments and so weak and empty that they never actually convert anyone, but instead irritate them and make them even less likely to turn to veganism. all these threads make me want to do is go out and find some veal or foie gras for dinner.

>>37392060
> im gonna be a whinny pussy and make this into a personal attack

So you cant refute me and give me a non hypocritical justification to stab animals...but you wanna try and somehow make this about me!?

>>37392073
not true they are sentient.

>>37392076
Do you not understand?

>>37392104
>Assuming she isn't forcing veganism on to the pets
why would you assume that?

>>37392111
>Do you not understand?

I fail to comprehend how a grown person can think domestic herbivores would survive without round-the-clock human protection in any ecosystem.

Even if one with zero predators, all your farm animals would die come first winter or drought.

>>37392107
>not answering my question
I know it is unrealistic but when talking about ethics and morals you actually need to do some thought experiments like this.

Your argument was the trait absent in animals that justifys killing them and would justify killing humans if this trait was missing - is morphology. The fact that humans are humans....so i asked if i put you in a computer then could i kill you without justification?

or could we kill sentient robots without justification?

>>37392109
>>37392109
> does not refute the comic

>does not give a non hypocritical justification for stabbing animals

>>37392115
True.

She did post yesterday about how cruel zoos are whilst having pets so it's safe to assume she's left humanity behind in the opposite direction and has gone full retard

>>37392111
> im gonna be a whinny pussy and make this into a personal attack

you did that all yourself bro, you need to calm the farm or you might have a heart attack

what are your thoughts on animal control btw?
do you think invasive species that threaten others should be controlled (killed)? it's just for my curiosity not trying to make a point

>>37392126
> still not giving me a non hypocritical justification for killing animals

>>37392136
how is keeping a pet and a zoo the same thing you idiot.

>>37392093
All humans have the ability to learn how to make electric components though

Animals could not. I there is a level of awareness and understanding that humans have that animals do not

They have similar traits to us but they humans are much more complex

SOME BODY GIVE ME A JUSTIFICATION THAT WOULD ALSO JUSTIFY KILLING HUMANS

>hurr durr humans and animals ate different
yeah no shit

SO NAME THE TRAIT ABSENT IN ANIMALS THAT IF ABSENT IN HUMANS WOULD JUSTIFY KILLING THEM WITHOUT A VALID REASON

Only reply to this if you can actually do it.

Friendly reminder that you are all arguing with a grown man who thinks cows, pigs and chickens would survive in the wild because, I quote,

>they would eat gras

>>37392144

He pointed out to you that virtually all your animals would die in a vegan world, and you made an argument a 6 year old would be ashamed of.

It is your turn to justify yourself, friend.

>>37392134
you just don't get it

we do not need to justify killing animals because we do not fucking care, justification of morals is for people who are too mentally weak to accept their actions. am i a hypocrite? yes, for many reasons. do i care? no.

>>37392162
survival

>>37392134
There's nothing to answer. It's the same type of question: "what would happen if we were suddenly transferred onto another planet?". Children at age of 5 ask such a questions.

>>37392162

>I'm just going to ignore every argument and keep repeating my logical fallacy until the thread dies

>>37392149
>all humans
obviously not, think about what you are writing.

so your justification to kill animals is that they cannot make electronic stuff.... so is it justfied to kill the mentally ill, physically disabled, elderly, chronically ill, pets without a valid reason?

That is your argument.

>>37392144
>am doge
>want to run free, sniff other doges butts, live in woods
>human stops me doing this by putting a chain around my neck and yanking it whenever I stray 2 feet away from them
>human decides what I eat and when I eat

Holy fuck are you retarded.

>>37392162
define what a "justification" is first

i could kill someone because i really, really don't like them. in my mind, that justifies my killing of them. to you, that would not be justified. morality is subjective, and you seem to be unable to comprehend that.

>>37392174
it is not a logical fallacy

SHOW ME THE FUCKING POST WHERE A TRAIT IS NAMED

>>37392172
so you are refusing to answer it. Would it be justified to destroy your conciousness outside of a human body yes or no.

>>37392170
Yes i agree - you however are not in a survival situation.

>>37392175
It is yes
They are weak links in the gene pool and as harsh as it is. They should be erraticated so ensure better chances for future population

Doesn't have to be electronic components. Humans have a higher intellect. A trait of greater intelligence. A trait of empathy. Not sympathy

>>37392177
I never leash my dog so its ok

>>37392182
yes, so that isnt justification..

>morality is subjective
im sure you will say that the next time you hear about an adult raping a baby

>>37392198
>empathy
clearly not as you can kill animals without justfication

so to be clear, you are saying we can kill the mentally ill, physically disabled, etc without justification vased on intelligence?

>>37392199
>I've never leashed my dog

What do you feed your dog?

>>37392199
Unless you believe in absolute morality aka religion then you have to believe it's subjective. Therefore raping a baby in a culture that condones it is entirely okay. Morality is determined by a society. You have to choose one or the other.

>>37392185
wrong

if you dont eat you die, that is survival

its just very easy survival because of modern society and the human intellect

but tell me, if you were in an extreme survival situation would you kill an animal and eat it if your life depended on it.

i would stop eating meat if my life depeneded on it, would you do it the other way?

>>37392206
vegan dog food

even if i fed him animals that would not justify you killing animals for you

>>37392204
yes, they have no place in this world according to the rules of nature

>>37392210
so you think that in places where sex with young children in considered the norm then you would say there is nothing wrong with that....ok

>>37392211
Get over yourself, you are not in a survival situation where you have to hunt and kill animals to survive. You go to the shop where you can not but corpses and survive.

>would you kill an animal if your life depended on it
well seens as i agreed with you in that survival is justification then obviously i would.

>>37391519

>except ancient indians, monks, gladiators etc

None were vegan. Gladiators cosumed chicken bones on a regular basis.

Without modern supplementation, veganism will literally kill you.

>>37392199
My justification is religious
God told us that two hoofed animals may be eaten so any way you're against it is irrelevant to me

>>37392185
>so you are refusing to answer it
What's the point of answering futile questions that don't make no sense? Ask astrophysicist what's beyond our Universe and see what he answers you.

>>37392199
>I never leash my dog so its ok

You still imprison it in your house tho.

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>>37392214
So you've decided you're such a superior being that you can dictate what food the animal you've enslaved will eat, despite the fact said animals lineage has eaten meat as a key part of their survival.

You're literally a worse person that the anons that sent the frog into space and electrocuted a lizard on her kid

>>37392199
>im sure you will say that the next time you hear about an adult raping a baby

to those people it is subjective in their own mind, obviously. how fucking thick do you have to be not to see that?

you're like a broken record. just leave the thread and let it die, you're not going to achieve anything, just get increasingly butthurt.

>>37392210
manlets, when will they learn? Now they want to rape our babies too.

>>37392214
>even if i fed him animals that would not justify you killing animals for you

are you fucking serious?

that is the most retarded arugment i have ever heard

im done with you and this thread, i wanst sure how retarded you were but now i know youre off the chart

>>37392226
at least you are consistent....1st one in this thread

>>37392231
Gladiators were vegan, just fucking google it ffs

>>37392236
so you can understand the morals of taking a life which is not humans
You would obviously not want to get killed if your conciousness was outside of your body, this is whyyou wont just say no...because then you would acknowledge that switching you off would require justification.

>>37392214
You shouldn't keep a dog at all.

>>37392230
why does his opinion matter if we are discussing the subjectivity of morality? the very fact that he could think differently to other people with regards to the same topic is proof of it.

>>37392252
>he gets a home
>be around those who love him
>gets every need and want
hurr durr this is morally bad, but its morally ok to kill billions of animals without justfication

>>37392248
I didn't answer your stupid question and you came to your own conclusions and pinned them on to me. Seriously, how do you expect anyone could have a decent discussion with you?

>>37392271
You have no right to own any animal.

>>37392248
gladiators were glorified slaves, they were fed with whatever was cheap and provided them with the nutrition they needed. if meat happened to be cheaper than wheat for whatever reason, or dairy products were cheap at the time, that is what they would eat.

>thinking they ate a strict vegan diet

fucking idiot

>>37392245
other peoples bad actions do not justify your own

>HURR DURR OMG THAT SO RETARDED IM SO DONE THST A RETARDED THING TO SAY OMG I CANT BELIEVE HOW STUPID U R IN 2016 OMGOMG SO RETARD

>>37392263
he cant back up his reasoning. No non hypocritical justification has been given

The only legit justification given is survival (which would also justify taking human life)...however none of us are in a survival situation

>>37392248

Literally every link says that they had a vegetarian diet.

They ate ground chicken bones and fish sauce.

>>37392271
Keeping pets in captivity is worse than eating animals, because you do it personally.

>>37392296
That's probably because they were slaves. Who would give meat to a slave?

>>37392283
You did not explain why it is ethically wrong >>37392271

>>37392272
SO ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION THEN - you have posted numerous times now just crying about a question. Answer it or GTFO
Would you be able to kill a robot with a humans concious in it without justification...or if you cry more about this question

can we kill sentient A.I without justification?
>>37392285
well they are mostly vegan diets... none of what you wrote justifying killing animals in 2916 doe

>>37392306

Gladiators were treated pretty decently, actually. They were valuable slaves. People back then just had limited knowledge of nutrition.

>>37392301
>gets loved
>gets comfort
>gets companions
>gets play
>gets all wants and needs

waaah this is wrong...stfu. I bet you are not even vegan which makes your argument so dumb...if you are vegan then stfu keep SJW out of veganism

>>37392292
you're going in circles

his personal justification does not matter as morality is subjective, which brings us back to the original argument - the decision to kill animals and eat their meat is not objectively "right" or "wrong", as what fits your morals does not have to fit those of someone else.

>>37392204
Your confusing empathy with sympathy kid

Don't worry it takes a bit to get the meanings down packed

But just keep picking a word or two out of everyones post and selectively arguing. You're getting really far

>>37392292
how do you justify feeding your dog vegan when it is supposed to eat meat

>>37392329
>his personal justification does not matter as morality is subjective
yet you would reject this if he harmed a human child

Im not going in circles - im asking the same question because i have no received an answer.

>>37392336
no im not...


>>37392340
because it does not cause him harm, he has been vegan for 2 years. He is fine, his food has every nutrient he needs.

>>37392214
Call animal control

>>37392336
im not selectively arguing. Give me a non hypocritical justification for killing animals (that you would accept as justification for killing human)

>>37392341
>reject this if he harmed a human child
I'll take false equivalence for 300 alex.

Animals <> humans

>>37392346
eating meat does no harm to me

now i just justified it using your own argument

>>37392341
Can't believe I read through the whole comment chain. You are arguing from a philosophical standpoint, not a logical one, and you have obviously never taken a philosophy class in your life. You literally have no argument other than "I think killing animals is bad and you shouldn't do bad things". That is a nonargument.

>>37392162
Ok, easy. Im a human. I don't want to die. so I disagree with the killing of humans. I'm not a nonhuman animal. So that's fine. Kill and eat 'em for sure.

>>37392367
read the fucking thread.

What makes you reject it for humans but not reject it for animals

NAME THE TRAIT ABSENT IN ANIMALS THAT IF ABSENT IN HUMANS WOULD JUSTIFY HARMING THEM


also you just rejected the "morality is subjective" when used against humans...which means your "justification" is hypocritical and not enough for humans....so not justfication at all.

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>>37392214

>>37392341
>yet you would reject this if he harmed a human child

again, personal opinions are irrelevant because guess what?
morality is subjective

you seem to be mentally incapable of understanding this

>>37392358
nobody will give you one because its unnecessary, meat eaters don't care what you think about them

jesus fucking christ just stop

>>37392341

So you're asking why we eat animals and not people? and you want it to not be hypocritical.

Ok, fair enough, we don't eat people because they can fight back, or if they can't fight back (children and the mentally impaired) they have people who are willing to fight on their behalf. So for humans to kill and eat other humans it's a very risky endeavor. Animals however have been bred to be relatively docile, my ducks follow me around when I take them to pasture and back to their coop. So killing and eating animals is a very safe endeavor.

>>37392368
yeah but you are killing another animal for it....that what requires justification....

>>37392373
so your trait is that humans are humans.... so would you not need justification to kill a peaceful alien race? Would you not need justification to kill sentient A.I? would you not need justification to switch a machine off if your conciousness was inside it?

>>37392378
The ability to ask questions. We have taught apes sign language but not one had asked a question. Go watch that vsauce video I think he dumbed it down enough for you.

>>37392378
>NAME THE TRAIT ABSENT IN ANIMALS
That we are having this conversation you fucking mongoloid.

>>37392199
I bet you cut it's balls off though. Atleast zoo animals can keep their nads, their sex life and their hormones ya monster ;)

>>37392341
wrong

you are twisting his argument

you should say

>yet you would reject this if he harmed a different animal, harmed a chicken instead of pig

and then you would get your answer NO and then you fucked yourself because youproved are going in circles

>>37392394
Killing animals does not require justification. And fucking alieums really? You are fucking retarded.

>>37392386
lucky i dont have a kitten then...

>>37392388
so when you next hear about a serial rapist you will just go "meh morality is subjective the rapist thought it was right"... yeah no.

It is necessary to be able to justify when you kill other sentient beings or cause them suffering....unless you are a psychopath

>>37392391
so if i made humans docile then that would be justification?

>>37392378

>Name the trait

This is pure sophistry with no relation to reality. You don't need to name the trait to know it when you see it, and know enough to conduct yourself ethically.

Only an autist incapable of smoothly operating in the world around him feels the need to give everything a name before acting. Are you an autist, senpai?

>>37392358
Any reason ever? Because no two situation is ever the same. You can't just sum it up like that like. Killing animals isn't black and white.

Vegans should focus one something more important like poverty of HUMANS
then maybe we would treat you like humans too instead of mentally ill skeletons

>>37392410
I see you pick and choose only to reply to posts that you can (badly) argue against but refuse to reply to posts that refute your point. You are a fucking troll

>>37392378
justification of harming humans is subjective anyway, as about 20 different people have said itt

but if you want a trait it is the fact that we have the mental capacity to make a conscious decision to cause harm or not cause harm. animals do not, it is instinctual for them, if they want to cause harm they cannot stop themselves, if they do not harm another animal it is because they never intended to. a human has the mental capacity to decide whether to or not.

but this trait is also irrelevant, because the trait which "justifies" a subjective point is up for debate anyway. so really your demand for a specific trait is meaningless.

>>37391547
>Reading Daily mail
Never going to make it desu

>>37392271
You realize what happens if we dont kill all those animals... they die anyway

>>37392410

>so if i made humans docile then that would be justification?

As I stated non-docile humans would be willing to protect the docile ones, so killing and eating them would still be a unnecessarily risky decision.

>>37392395
so the trait is asking question?
>kill the dumb
>kill the physically disabled
>kill babies
>kill those in a coma

>>37392396
so your trait which justfies killing animals is because they cannot talk a human language...
see above

>>37392403
Im not twisting it, he would reject it in the human context - he did.That makes it hypocritical as his argument fails when used against him Nice one at ONCE AGAIN not justifying killing animals


>>37392407
>omg an example, a thought experiment omg i cant fathiom this

Killing requires justification...unless you hinestly think i can just go and smash a dogs head in with a bat...

>>37392410
>so when you next hear about a serial rapist you will just go "meh morality is subjective the rapist thought it was right"... yeah no.

my personal opinion, which is that i would put his head on a spike does not change the fact that to him what he did was justified. your point means nothing and does not disprove what i said.

fuck me are you genuinely autistic?

>>37392449
its a straw man to claim human instead of animal you fucking moron

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>>37392410

>It is necessary to be able to justify when you kill other sentient beings or cause them suffering....unless you are a psychopath

Shit's fucking delicious. Boom, justified.

>>37392449
It shows higher intelligence and the ability to understand that other beings are separate from yourself and thus could have different information than you fucking dipshit. You're obviously very dense as you have never taken a psych class or a philosophy class.

>>37392449
>unless you hinestly think i can just go and smash a dogs head in with a bat...

you could, yes. you don't even need to justify it, you would just feel bad about doing it afterwards. the act of killing does not require justification, it is the consequences that follow that arguably do.

are you genuinely underage?

>>37392341
Ya because there is a primordial instinct to protect genetically similar young packed into our DNA. Same thing tells us to crave juicy meat :D

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>justify stabbing animals

I don't need to, because i don't care.
Animals are tasty as fuck, and even if im an asshole for eating them it wouldnt change my views on it.

>>37392449
Bitching about thought experiments when you have the spelling and grammar of a preschooler. Also most of your fucking arguments are based on logical fallacies.

>>37392315
>w-w-well t-they...
Btfo.

>>37392394
Unless the alien race could hinder my survival, no reason not to pick off one or two for studying. Anything to benefit man

>>37391505
You serious? Death of a child due to malnutrition is not neglect in your eyes?

>>37392449
>so the trait is asking question?
The question is a moral reasoning question. ie humans reason morally animals do not.

>because they cannot talk a human language
You're retarded

>he would reject it in the human context
You make no distinction between moral and amoral beings. Your argument is a false equivalence.

>Killing requires justification
To eat.
inb4 hurr eat humans, and you make another stupid argument.

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this is some good shit

>>37392414
so you just didnt name the trait that would justify killing humans.... ok.

>>37392424
nope i try and reply to every one....also your post did not give me a non hypocritical justification for killing animals.

>>37392427
So you think that people who harm children should not get punishment because morality is subjective?

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbMR81YkvOQ

1 video showing an animal making the decision to not kill....

>>37392435
you will die anyway that is not justfication for me killing you.

>>37392440
So your justification for killing and causing suffering is "they are docile because of what we do to them"...but then you reject it in human terms...

>>37392451
Yeah but your personal opinion dont matter, he should just be allowed to walk round free right!?

>>37392459
no it isnt, im using it to prove my point. You reject your reasons to kill animals when used to kill humans but nobody can name a trait absent in animals that if absent in humans would justify these reasons. That means the "justifications" are inconsistent and hypocritical

>>37392466
so we should kill unintelligent humans as we do not need justification for it and ignore the fact animals understand other beings are separate from theselves.

>>37392467
> the act of killing a child does not require justification it is the consequences that follow that arguably do...

I would need to justify killing a dog, or i would go to prison.

>stops replying to me

well i guess that's it, my autism has been satisfied


op just leave now, the thread will be deleted in a few hours and in time you will forget about everything that has happened in here

>>37392518
>So you think that people who harm children should not get punishment because morality is subjective?

that is a strawman and i'm not going to bother answering it

>Yeah but your personal opinion dont matter, he should just be allowed to walk round free right!?

so is that

>I would need to justify killing a dog, or i would go to prison.

irrelevant, justification to the authorities is not the same as justification to yourself

>>37392518
Animals <> people

Go back to school

>>37392518
You didnt reply to the one where i mentioned you lopped off your dog's nuts cause it was convenient for you... and you try to take the moral high ground after that, tsk tsk..

>>37392518
Wow are you fucking retarded. You don't even understand what the ability to ask a question means even though I spelled it out for you. And >>37392372 already defeated your argument. You have no argument.

>>37392476
> a cannibal can use this exact justification and i would reject his justification

>>37392481
I have not posted a logical fallacy...sorry i made typos but you have not refuted me.

>>37392490
nope, the only way to BTFO me is if you give me a non hypocritical justification for killing animals.

>>37392512
i posted a video showing a wild lion showing some moral agency. If a human could not show moral agency (due to disabilities) it would not be justified to kill him or her.

It wouldn't make my argument stupid - you would reject eating humans based on your justification to eat animals (to eat) that makes your reasoning hypocritical and inconsistent.

>>37391718
We don't share as many genes in common and therefore natural selection doesn't prompt us to preserve their genes by not eating them.

>>37392518

>So your justification for killing and causing suffering is "they are docile because of what we do to them"...but then you reject it in human terms...

Absolutely not; you're free to try and raise docile humans for your own consumption; it would just be an incredibly dumb decision that would probably land you in jail or killed.

However raising livestock is easy and rewarding, no vegan is willing to fight for animals, just bitch about it.

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>>37392558
> a cannibal can use this exact justification and i would reject his justification

nice projecting bruh, like i said i still wouldnt care

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>>37392429
>literally the first google result
>tries to dismiss factual information based on dailymail's reputation

There are other sources if you prefer:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/29/vegans-trial-death-baby-breast-milk

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/vegan-parents-on-trial-over-baby-s-death-1.586260


More vegan parents killing their babies:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/08/child.starved/

>>37392548
my dog has nuts.

>>37392372
Oh so you cannot give me a non hypocritical argument for not killing animals?

>>37392555
What? The ability to ask a question....plenty of humans cannot do that so is it justified to kill them?

>>37392547
thats not an argument... give me the trait absent in animals that if absent in humans justifies killing outside a survival situation.

>>37392558
Every single one of your posts has been called out for their fallacies. I suggest you actually read and try to understand counter arguments instead of just trying to find the most convenient excuse to fight against them. You are throwing a fucking temper tantrum right now.

>>37392315
>Would you be able to kill a robot with a humans concious in it without justification
Honestly, no. If it had intelligence and consciousness on par with humans I would even give them human rights. Still, the original question was stupid and you changed it. It was about transferring someones consciousnesses into a computer, remember?

>>37392578
not gonna lie that actually a really good goku costume

>>37392327
>gets loved
>gets comfort
>gets companions
>gets play
In your mind maybe. How do you know what a dog wants? Maybe he wants freedom?
And how's that different from keeping a cow for milk or chickens for eggs? Vegans are stupid.

>>37392558
>a wild lion showing some moral agency
no you didn't. A lion not doing what they generally do, is no indication that it used moral reasoning to decide not to kill a single animal. They kill and eat baby animals all the time.

>If a human could not show moral agency (due to disabilities) it would not be justified to kill him or her.
I disagree. I believe Euthanasia to be morally defensible.

>you would reject eating humans based on your justification to eat animals (to eat) that makes your reasoning hypocritical and inconsistent.
No it isn't, you again are trying to argue your fallacy isn't a fallacy when it 100% is. And my belief that euthanasia is morally defensible again btfo of this stupid point.

>>37392583
Got all you need, Bob Barker? Good, now go get her!

>>37392583
>thats not an argument
I don't have to give you one, Your statement is fallacious. Try making a logically sound argument.

>>37392583
>a non hypocritical argument for not killing animals
I gave you two and also debunked your argument for neither being logical nor philosophical. Sorry you're too stupid to understand them.

>>37392584
no they have not , because i have not posted a fallacy.

Well done at once again not giving me anon hypocritical justification to kill animals.

>>37392590
yes, but i thought that you could handle a thought experiment desu...but i just re worded the same scenario and i finally got an answer...so your trait of "its human" is now shown to be not the only time you need to justify tkilling.

>>37392602
stfu

>>37392607
yes i know they do, i showed you a video of a lion protecting "prey"... you have much much higher moral agency

Im not talking euthenatisa (where the human gives permission) im talking about killing.

Explain how accepting 1 reason for justification to kill then rejecting that same reason as justification to kill is not hypocritical... again, i have not posted a fallacy...you have accused me of this numerous times now. Point out my fallacy.

>we are not arguing about euthanasia

>>37392616
i have, i have offered you to give me anon hypocritical justification for taking an animals life. You cannot do it, which is why you have not given me one.

why do you talk so much about justification?

Do you know its a term from theology and nothing to do with nature and the world we live in? religion has been proving wrong long time ago, being vegan is not a religion stop mixing it

How do the parents in OPs link justify killing their own fucking baby?

Who we do have to 'justify' eating meat to? you? the law? god? please tell me

is it just you who is a weak link of nature and shouldnt exist to begin with?

>>37392642
>hypocritical justification for taking an animals life.
To eat

>>37392648
because causing suffering requires justification.

Unless you hold the position that one can cause as much harm and suffering and killing as they like and it does not rquire justification.

Why are you still arguing?

Animals are much, much dumber than humans, so their lives do not matter as much as human lives. It is pretty simple.

>>37392583
That is not a case by case thing. It has been empirically shown that the species of homo sapien sapiens has the ability to ask questions, yet no matter how many times we have tried, not a single animal has shown that same ability. This proves there is a fundamental difference in our cognitive abilities and also shoes a fundamental difference between humans and animals. There is your logical reason.

>>37392642
Yeah, it's being on pair in intellect and consciousness with humans, which animals aren't.

>>37392662
who suffer and how?

>>37392642
>Point out my fallacy.
Humans <> animals

>Not arguing about euthanasia
>asks if it is morally wrong to kill mentally disabled humans
>Implying mentally disable humans can give permission.
Yes, we are talking about euthanasia you just don't know it.

>>37392662
>requires justification

that is your opinion and opinions are not objective. the sooner you come to understand this, the sooner you will realise what a petulant child you are being.

>237 posts
>44 replies

lel

>>37392642
>yes i know they do, i showed you a video of a lion protecting "prey"

lmao clearly you don't realize that the lion was "protecting" the prey from other predators so he could have it al for himself! Dogs, cats, honey badgers, basically any wild animal does this.

>>37392652
you can buy other foods, if i used "to eat" as justification to kill a human you would reject it.

> i kill humans to eat
>i kill animals to eat
structurally those arguments are the same.
The only way you can get out of this is by naming the trait absent in animals that if absent in humans would justify killing them by saying "to eat"... (unless in a survival option were it would be justified)

>>37392642
>stfu
That's what I expected, lol.

Why is veganism based on non-ecological reasons so hypocritical?

Take this guy for example
>>37392518
He bitches about animals yet, probably only cares about cute mammals. Every day he unintentionally kills multiple little insects, but they aint relatable enough to give a shit about.
There are monks in Asia who sweep the floor in front of them, so they harm as little insects as possible. Yet I've never seen hippies sweeping anything.
I don't think vegans have any place talking down to other people when they themselves don't even follow their own ideology to it's logical conclusion.

>>37392386
Eat big, kitty

>>37392680
The ability to reason morally.

You are seriously retarded.

>>37392642
Go read through your comment chain again. Prove to me that the posts you made, which were called out as fallacious and had reasonable arguments for being so, are not. Otherwise you are a terrible troll and have no justification to keep arguing, let alone from some false moral high ground.

>>37392676
so you think that those who cause humans to suffer should have nothing done and be allowed to do so, because its there opinion and subjective morality that says it is right to cause humans suffering?

>>37392583
as a vegan myself you realise having pets kinda fights against what we stand for right? even if its a stray.

>>37392410
>lucky i dont have a kitten then...
Are you implying that if you did have a kitten, you'd force your veganism on it?
Well, thanks for admitting that you're a mentally ill animal killer

>>37392701
yet again, my personal opinions on the topic are completely irrelevant, as are yours. i'm not even going to explain why, i've done it about 10 times already.

>>37392701
also you're using strawmen again, don't do this when you're in an argument because it makes it clear you don't have any actual rebuttals.

>>37392686
yeah im sure i accidental kill an insect, that does not justify me going to kill thousands of them

>>37392690
Not all humans can do that - so is it justified to kill them?

>>37392691
>still not giving me a non hypocritcal justfication that would justify killing animals and humans
Its a such a simple question but nah you would rather act clever meanwhile dodging the question.

>>37392729
I'm not the one dodging questions. You are.

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>>37391519

This thread can be summed up pretty easy.

To a vegan a human = a chicken.

Killing one is as bad as killing another. Which logically would lead to eating is immoral, but I don't need to go down that rabbit hole.

>>37392724
nope im not, because if it is rejected in the human context then it is hypocritical. Learn what a strawman is before you type

>>37392711
so we should let all violent rapists and murderers out of prison
>ur personal opinion does not matter morality is subjective we have no right to impose our morals on these poor prisoners

>>37392749
No, to a vegan a chicken > a human

>>37392729
You did kill thousands though.
And even worse, you're barely doing anything to prevent it.

>>37392729
>so is it justified to kill them?
yes, euthanasia.

Good god, you're thick

>>37392759
That's not the definition of a strawman argument, the anon was correct. You really need to go read up on logical fallacies and maybe take a logic 101 class. Your arguments are full of holes.

>>37392558

I'm eating 3-piece chicken meal (KFC tho baka senpai) while you're splergling out like this.

Come on boy.

The problem here seems to be that the vegan values an animal life the same as a human life, everyone else doesn't. The discussion ends here because one cannot argue against personal opinion. Just remember that every species (except maybe spiders lol) value their own species more than other.

>>37392735
no im not.
>once again not giving me a non hypocritical justification to kill animals

>>37392740
that is quite out dated, but yes you cant be 100 percent vegan yet...

>>37392749
no it wouldnt, eating plants and non sentient organisms is not immoral.

This thread can be summed up by

non vegans not giving a vegan a non hypocritical justification for killing animals.

Some would reject the justifications they gave in human context and not understand why this means the justification is hypocritical.

>>37391519
>http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/
>guest-blog
>blog
>no citations
>thinks our guts are similar to monkeys
top kek

>>37392775
I'm cooking some bacon, sausage, and eggs right now. I even went and picked them up from the store after I saw this thread. The OP literally contributed to the death of animals by being a whiny child. I would have had some rice and beans before seeing this thread.

>>37392784
>eating plants and non sentient organisms is not immoral

why?

>>37391618
We need to kill the old people before we start on the infants. Otherwise humanity will collapse in 40 years.

>>37392759

>if it is rejected in the human context then it is hypocritical

I gave you a clear example of a non hypocritical justification, and you stopped replying...

It's dangerous to kill and eat humans, it's easy to kill and eat domesticated animals (this is also why we don't really bother with shit like zebra meat)

>>37392784
>eating plants and non sentient organisms is not immoral
So eating fish and invertebrates is perfectly fine to you?

What if we selectively breed cows to not feel pain?

>non vegans not giving a vegan a non hypocritical justification for killing animals.
Only to the mind of a moron.

>>37392784
You have been given multiple arguments which you have rejected based on flawed logic and fallacious arguments. This debate is no longer about the justification of killing animals but about your inability to argue from a logical position.

File: liberal mindset.png (634KB, 1090x714px) Image search: [Google]

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Veganism, like liberalism, is a mental illness.

>>37392784
>that is quite out dated,

you are right there are plenty more products that you use everyday that haven't been added

the image is just a general image, there are thousands more uses for animal by product

If you want to leave the meat and just use the by-products you are a waster and a hypocrite

the world is just you and your personal dietary needs

>>37392761
not true, but nice post.

>>37392767
Euthanasia is when the one getting killed agrees.... you are the thick one as you dont even know what you are arguing.

>>37392772
I never implied i gave the definition of a straw man.... i explained why mine was not a stawman

>>37392775
csb

>>37392780
Nope, if you actually read the thrwad then you would notice i have had to say this numerous times
Humans and animals are not equal
Humans have a greater capacity to suffer than animals...just like some humans have a greater capacity to suffer than another human.... that does not justify killing those who have less capacity to suffer.

>once again, nobody giving me a justification to kill animals that they would also deem to be justifiable to kill humans


only 1 given was survival, which is justfied- problem is none of you are in a tribe or killing to survive - you just like to think you are lol

>>37392784
>plants
>non-sentient

citation needed

>>37392820
You have had multiple reasons, you just shoved your fingers in your ears and screamed "LALA LALA DOESN'T COUNT"

>>37392820
>Euthanasia is when the one getting killed agrees
ya, dogs always agree to be euthanized. You are talking about assisted suicide. The 2 are not the same.

please tell me how you justify eating plants

>>37392820
>A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

that is precisely what you have done numerous times in this thread

most of your rebuttals have involved strawmen

>>37392798
>mm im eating an animal product i surely win this deb8 hueeee

>>37392807
It is not dangerous to kill and eat certain humans so is it justfied to kill these groups of humans?

>>37392810
No because fish are sentient and cows would still be sentient even if they somehow did not feel pain

>avoiding the question

>>37392813
Nope, you are just trying to derail...give me a non hypocritical justification to kill animals that would also justify killing humans. Then you will win the thread.

>>37392817
im not a liberal. Not eating corpses or secretions is not a mental illness.

>>37392818
so a lot of stuff you have uses slavery... does that justify slavery?

>>37392817
That picture is kinda telling actually.
She talks like she knows he is no longer in her league and she's only staying because she somehow feels obligated.

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>>37392820
>Euthanasia is when the one getting killed agrees
Explain how dogs give their agreement please.

>>37392784
Plant here.
I'm a sentient being and you can't prove me otherwise.
Stop killing my kind

I find that most vegans are strictly vegan because of the moral issue. It's quite difficult to find meat or dairy that doesn't come from a factory farm these days. Given that, I'm wondering how many vegans here would eat meat that they hunted or fished for?

>>37392860
What if you use the trolley problem and switch out humans with animals?

>>37392860

>It is not dangerous to kill and eat certain humans so is it justfied to kill these groups of humans?

Please give me an example of when it is not dangerous.

>>37392860
>give me a non hypocritical justification to kill animals that would also justify killing humans. Then you will win the thread.

if you bothered to read the responses rather than angrily hitting your face on the keyboard to form something that you consider to be a rebuttal then you would realise several anons have already done this

>>37392829
dont be a fucking idiot. Plants have no brain or bodily systems. Show me a mechanism of self awareness that does not require a brain.

>>37392840
im talking about stabbing animals in the neck for a burger even though you can just buy any other food actually.

>>37392835
No i fucking have not, every reason given was rejected when in human context. Give me 1 now that is non hypocritical.


>>37392857
read the thrwad. People were replying to my question, when i showed how they would reject justification in human context (which was a criteria for my question) that is refuting the claim. Not a strawman.

>>37392860
>would still be sentient even if they somehow did not feel pain
Then now you will need to define sentient in a way, that does not include pain, but would exclude plants obvious perception of their natural environment. IE leaning towards the light, Opening/closing flowers at night.

>>37392889
>self awareness requires a brain

citation needed

>>37392817
pretty sure she cheated on him soon afterwards, someone probably has the infograph

>>37392860

>so a lot of stuff you have uses slavery... does that justify slavery?

what stuff?

don't say clothes, they get confiscated at customs if slave labour is used

>>37392889
>Show me a mechanism of self awareness that does not require a brain.
whatever plants have going on

>>37392872
what are you on about? IM asking you to give me a non hypocritical argument against killing any animal and you are coming back at me with not been able to justify euthanasia... what the fuck?

>>37392876
no because as i have said i would not be able to justify the act of taking that animals life.

>>37392883
you could easily kill a homeless person in a secluded area or lonley old people, the lack of danger is justification for you right?

>>37392885
please point out where they have, because every reason given was rejected in human context.

>>37392889
"When rejected in human context" is not a logical argument. Even then, animals being fundamentally different than humans based on their cognitive ability fits your bill.

>>37392889
>self awareness
You do know the vast majority of animals aren't self aware right? Are you sure you don't mean perception?

stop ignoring me

you talk about justifying, how do the parents justify killing their own baby

>>37392889
I wouldn't pick self awareness as a criterion if I were you.
Very few animals actually have theory of mind.

>>37392896
you can be sentient and not feel pain. Learn what sentient means.

Plants are not sentient

>>37392898
show me self awareness without a brain

>>37392902
> some stuff has animal products in it therefroe nobody can be vegan and it is not justfied to stab animals because nobody can ve 100 percent vegan

>some products use slave labour but that does not justify slave labour or anybody keeping slaves

>>37392929
>is not a logical argument.

this anon isn't using logic and he appears to be incapable of doing so

>>37392945
>asks for citation
>"the burden of proof is on you"

ok kid

>>37392929
this has been addressed to many fucking times.

it is a logical argument, if your justification to kill a sentient being is suddenly not valid when used to justify killing humans then NAME THE TRAIT absent in animals that if absent in humans would justify killing them.

>>37391519

Conscription is perfectly ok for any society.

>>37392944
obviously they do or they could not navigate the world and recognise loved ones and rival ones

>>37392953
you think plants are self aware without evidence. Then call me kid hahaha

>>37392946
except i am you just cant answer it.

>>37392921
>non hypocritical argument against killing any animal

Let me try to walk you through this like a toddler.

>Justify killing animals
to eat
>hypocrite you wouldn't kill humans
Humans <> animals, fallacious statement
Humans reason morally, animals do not.
>You wouldn't kill disabled people
Euthanasia is morally defensable
>Not talking about euthanasia that requires consent
Gives you the definition of euthanasia showing that it doesn't.
>HURR WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!!

You are not equipped for this conversation.

>>37392945

No you said stuff that you use, uses slave labour

what stuff?

I can show you how you are not vegan

now you show me how I am justifying slavery with all this stuff I use everyday

even though its not even a comparable argument

>>37392955
I just fucking did. The cognitive ability is fundamentally different between the human species and any other animal species.

>>37392964
No, you don't even understand what logic is, that's the sad part.

>>37391519
well from a purely production standpoint veganism isn't sustainable either.

it would require essentially strip mining the soil -- without animal droppings (IE, putting chickens/goats/cows in fallow fields) the mineral content of the soil is continually depleted. Right now we replenish the mineral content of the soil with fossil fuel based fertilizers; which long term isn't sustainable.

Ideally we'd have small farms with proper crop rotation, and natural fertilizers. Which implies raising animals as well. A farm designed in this manner is nearly completely self sustaining. There's a reason why livestock has always been raised in conjunction with crops.

(This was pasta, since vegans use one of two bullshit arguments in every fucking thread. health, which you've covered; next up is sustainability -- so needed to preempt you.)

>>37391571
thought it was a brit, in 1947.

>>37392964
None of that has to do with the theory of mind. You are horribly ignorant and seriously need to stay in school.

>>37391423
>supplements

Why open your fuck ?

>>37392965
"to eat" is not justification as you can eat anything that did not require you to stab animals

YES I FUCKING KNOW HUMANS ARE NOT OTHER ANIMALS
But you reject that "to eat" justification when a cannibal uses it...but you are just gonna go hurr durr animals are not human so i dont require justification.

Your trait absent in animals which would also justify killing humans is the humans can reason morally while animals cannot... (they can, just go on youtube and put in animal compassion)

but certain humans cannot reason morally...yet you would not eat them and think "they cant reason morally" is a justification.

That means your argument is not consistent and hypocritical.

You then derailed the convo about euthanasia...if a human is non sentient (coma) with no brain activity and wont be coming round then you think that is immoral to switch of the life support?

Or you think it immoral to kill someone in middle stages of a disease that will make them suffer?