Okay, what the fuck is with olympic lifting? People look like

It's basically Powetlifting if you took away the respect for form and the humble nature

>>37032631
>>37032625
Are you sure you're not talking about crossfit?

Why do people still think they are the Same fucking thing

>>37032631
Powerlifting sounds like douchebaggery, too. How do you get any gain out of these exercises?

File: Download.jpg (87KB, 1000x666px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 1000x666px

>>37032631
>anything sumo is good form
alright buddy

its a fun way to lift and become stronger
crossfit is its retarded sibling

>>37032684
Maybe I was not being clear.
Clean&Jerks and Snatches make you stronger?
Fucking HOW? The entire procedure is in the fucking momentum of the bar and you standing up.

>>37032625
olympic lifting is a meme

there are like 20 faggots (more every month) at my college gym who are at the gym for 4+ hours a day, hogging to platform, doing one spergy rep with like 140 lbs per hour

and then they sit around looking around smugly and talk about how often they foam roll, and how great the technique they have been using to lift the exact same weight, the exact same way for 6 months is

at least powerlifting is badass

>>37032701
>how does moving 300lbs from your feet to over your head make you stronger

anon pls

>>37032701
>momentum of the bar
Your getting there buddy keep trying

>>37032715
Swinging it around does not make you as strong as individually training muscle groups.
>>37032720
Everyone I see doing this in the way they tell you to do it is jerking the bar into position without fully following through. They dive underneath the bar, doing no lifting, and instead just stand up.
Why not do a squat/deadlift?

>>37032631
Powerlifting is essentially strength training for fat people who want to jade 24% bodyfat as "pure muscle." Go on a fucking run, tubby.

>>37032734
what do you think creates that momentum?
also weightlifters do squats and deadlifts to get better at their movements

>>37032751
The slight, momentary push creates it, relieving the muscle for the remainder of the motion while the person moves their relatively lesser weighted body into position, and then recruits already-accounted-for muscles to do the real work.
The clean and jerk makes literally no sense. The fucking hip-bump is part of the exercise.

>>37032734

Because fitness is more than just strength you fucking moron.

Oly lifting requires speed, power, strength, flexibility, and balance.

It's a hell of a lot more technical and interesting to watch than powerlifting.

>>37032767
So you have never done a proper Olympic lift

That's like saying the only force for any movement is only at the beginning of the lift

File: 492740-laghlyn.jpg (29KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 640x640px

>>37032767

>The slight, momentary push creates it
>slight
>push

Kill yourself.

>>37032625
Olympic weightlifting has over a hundred years of history. Those lifts come from a history of cultures modifying and changing lifts and techniques to get incredibly heavy shit off the ground. Competitive powerlifting has only been arounf since the 50s, though the moves were known before that.

>>37032780
No one fucking cares about *watching* it. I asked what it does to improve your fitness.
>>37032781
The "proper" method, as described by every major video on form out there, tells you to use your hips to bump the bar up, to dive under the bar, et cetera.
>>37032789
How would you describe it?
>>37032790
How does this fucking relate to increasing muscle fitness?

File: 1439662872089.png (48KB, 511x480px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 511x480px

>>37032767

>No one fucking cares about *watching* it. I asked what it does to improve your fitness.
I and hundreds of thousands of people do too

>The "proper" method, as described by every major video on form out there, tells you to use your hips to bump the bar up, to dive under the bar, et cetera.
How do you get the bar to your hips? How do you stop the weight falling to the ground again? Must be magic 2bh

>How would you describe it?
A huge exertion of force. To the magnitude of if you are competing you literally can't lift anything again because you are spent

>How does this fucking relate to increasing muscle fitness?
You missed >incredibly heavy shit off the ground can't do that without muscles that are strong


Go play in traffic while unsupervised

>>37032806
(you) >>37032837

>>37032837
When I said no one fucking cares, I meant in the context of this discussion, regarding the fitness.
Stopping the weight from falling to the ground involves standing under it. That ONLY requires the strength of keeping your joints locked.

What you are describing is a DEMONSTRATION of fitness, not one you use to increase it. Why are people doing this at fucking gyms?

>>37032625
Olympic lifting has a pretty low injury rate desu, just like powerlifting and bodybuilding and other weight training.

Power cleans are pretty fun, so snatches and clean and jerks are probably pretty fun too

I guess the purpose is to get strong

>>37032857
>locking your joints

you clearly don't know anything about weightlifting

>>37032857
I dunno m8, why would anyone care about any demonstration of strength, like a heavy bench press, or log lift, or squat.

Also, I guarantee if you do lots of cleans you'll get strong

>>37032857
>Stopping the weight from falling to the ground involves standing under it. That ONLY requires the strength of keeping your joints locked.
Go hold your body weight above your head for several hours if it doesn't require any real strength. Fuck it do twice your body weight if it's so easy

>What you are describing is a DEMONSTRATION of fitness, not one you use to increase it. Why are people doing this at fucking gyms?
Are you trying to say doing a lift doesn't increase your strength in that lift?

>>37032880
Again, this makes no sense.
You can punch rocks and get stronger bones.
You can push rocks and get stronger muscles.
Does that mean you did it in an efficient and useful manner? People doing this at the gym tout it as the most useful exercise. Where is the fucking proof?

Wow this is the best b8 I've seen in months, 11/10 anon.

>>37032892
With your joints locked, it is easier than holding it in any other form. This is what makes sense.
>doesn't increase your strength IN THAT LIFT
I am talking about general muscle fitness, not specific training of a specific movement that has no fucking useful application elsewhere.

>>37032894
You should probably ask them, why not talk to them, they and you could probably learn from each other

>>37032904
Right, because people at the gym generally know anything other than how many crunches buzzfeed told them to do that day.

File: lesman-floating-atg.jpg (99KB, 800x532px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 800x532px

>>37032899
Olympic lifts increase your vertical jump, all the top guys have crazy vertical jumps like this guy

>>37032899
>I am talking about general muscle fitness, not specific training of a specific movement that has no fucking useful application elsewhere.
>no fucking useful application elsewhere
Literally the most useful 2 lifts ever. So useful that competition with those lifts has become a highly competitive sport way back before the first Olympic games
They might not be useful to you in your daily basement life but to say that they are not useful is truly retarded

>>37032908
>other people frighten me

>>37032899
>I am talking about general muscle fitness, not specific training of a specific movement that has no fucking useful application elsewhere.
Nice goalpost moving there

>>37032924
>at this moment..

>>37032908
90% of people and trainers at the gym are at broscience level and aren't worth talking to about workout stuff

>>37032908

If they're doing oly lifts, they probably aren't getting their fitness advice from buzzfeed.

File: 1462297169489.webm (2MB, 523x579px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 523x579px

I still got to say that olympic weightlifting looks sick and some of the weightlifters are just next level strength and aesthetics wise.
Just getting boners watching klokov's and xiaojun's physiques and lifts

>>37032701

some of these olympic lifters have never done a day of bench press before. then they'll go in and rep like 315lb+ no problem.

don't fucking tell me OLY doesn't make you strong as an ox

File: 1454624467603.jpg (21KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 500x500px

>>37032767
nobody can be this stupid

>>37032806
Because Olympic lifting is the apex of lifting. You take a metric shit ton of weight and get it from the ground to above your head. And that ability comes from training muscle groups as well as technique.

>>37032936
Nothing you just said supports your claim. What the fuck?
>>37032942
Not whatsoever; my experience has been that gym culture is unfortunately ignorant and superstitious.
>>37032948
The beginning of this goddamned thread had me asking what gains you get from it.
>>37032956
Buzzfeed equivalents.
>>37032978
So, as I already said, olympic weightlifting is just showing off, not building anything useful?

>>37033001
What do you have to lose by talking to them anon? You have lots to gain, and maybe they do too?

>>37033019
I am implying that I have already fucking talked with a majority of these people, or otherwise been able to deduce that they are full of superstition. How are you this fucking autistic?

>>37033055
S-sorry anon

>>37033001
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/olympiclift.htm

http://www.nickbolton.fitness/news/2014/12/11/benefits-of-olympic-weightlifting

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/1999/02000/A_Comparison_of_Strength_and_Power_Characteristics.11.aspx

Its been proven that Oly lifting is good for you. Compound lifts are good for you (ie squats, deadlifts, OHP, etc). Oly lifting uses all these compound movements in one blast to lift the weight from the ground to above the lifters head.
It isn't good for joints if done incorrectly.
Idiots lifting look like idiots.
Olympic lifting's purpose is to lift an enormous amount of weight in a effective and efficient manner using the entire athletes body.
Benefits include:
>Stronger athlete

>>37032625
I wish you had studied physics anon
>Massive weight
>Unparalelled ROM
>Done explosively
>Yet somehow it's not impressive to be able to generate that amount of power, nor is it any good for your personal fitness

>>37033061
Thanks anon
You da real mvp of this thread

>>37033102
T-thank

>>37033066
>done explosively
>humping the bar instead of merely lifting it is "explosive"
lol okay, enjoy your reduced stress on the muscles it is supposed to be making stronger

>>37033061
>People enjoy the feeling of the barbell being weightless as they drop underneath it
Hmm. I said this earlier. Sounds like you are not lifting it during this phase.

All of those things that are claimed to be improved by olympic weightlifting are improved equally by normal weightlifting, and none of the data shown here supports olympic weightlifting as being superior.

Wow I dont even lift but Its fucking obvious that this guy thats moving you all around is just a troll that Im starting to question if training your body too much directly makes you dumb or something like that
You needed more protein, /fit/ers, and you bite the b8 like crazy

-bad english I know
Also bad b8 and you ate it

>>37033120
Where do you get the idea all the force in this lift comes from a bump ?

>>37033120
>humping the bar
/fit/ pls

Hey OP! Can you evade your handler and play on the highway!? It's a lot of fun I know you would enjoy it!!

>>37033132
Sorry OP, when did I write that. I've read through my post and at no point did I ever say
>People enjoy the feeling of the barbell being weightless as they drop underneath it

I simply stated that Olympic lifting is a combination of compound exercises. Compound exercises are very good for the lifter body. Olympic lifting combines various compound movements together to perform a standard olympic lift. Aka this means that almost all large muscle groups are recruited to perform a lift.
I honestly don't know what you want to know OP. I've talked about all your points in the first post. It's up to you to do the reading and take on board what this thread has said. We have stated what Olympic lifting is, nothing more can really be said. Sorry if I couldn't help you anon, I legitimately want to help you.

>>37033155
It is a large part of the exercise, commonly stressed by people teaching it to others. It is important to note, as people claim that the force is coming from muscle groups that are truly not involved.
We all know that jerking weight around and exploiting momentum lessens the overall benefit you get from the exercise. Next thing you know, people will say that kipping is a fucking necessary part of the pull-up.
>>37033198
It was in the article you just linked, fuckwit.
Power cleans are all about lessening the overall stress on muscle groups by using your body's momentum instead of your muscle groups. Please just pull up a fucking instruction video for them and see how none of this should exist.

>>37033216
8/10

>>37033216
>fuckwit
Ok OP.
You hurt me bro, we're all just trying to make it.
Olympic lifting is simply a way to make it. Just look at some of klokov's videos and tell me that he isn't an insanely strong man. Olympic lifting is just a way of lifting weights.
Fuck me for helping right.

File: 1462248383077.jpg (7KB, 261x174px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 261x174px

>>37033271

File: 1445749054995.jpg (97KB, 352x259px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 352x259px

>>37033216
gr8 b8 m8 would r8 8/8 obvious troll but it's to l8 to stop the h8

>>37032924
>zyzzwelcomesbrothertovalhalla.jpg

>>37033216
>one lift that trains large percentage of muscles in your body
>useless
No.

>>37033304
Trains to do what, specifically? There seems to be absolutely no proof that it translates to daily fitness.

>>37033337
Oh son arent you b8ing this fittards
I salute your skull

There's literally no point in doing either power lifting or oly lifting if your goal isnt to compete. It's all just cock measuring if you dont compete. Pretty beta if you ask me.

>>37033337
... You didn't look very hard for proof, did you?

>>37033337
>all muscle groups used
>all muscle groups stronger
>implying stronger muscles aren't useful in day to day life
K
Obvious shitposter

>>37033348
Be nice to him. He is only "pretending" to be retarded

File: 1456952389699.jpg (250KB, 1024x708px) Image search: [Google]

250KB, 1024x708px

>>37033337

File: 745.png (211KB, 327x316px) Image search: [Google]

211KB, 327x316px

>>37033364
Mkay

>>37033360
"Stronger" in this context is almost entirely due to repeating the motion, and therefore training specific capability to perform the extremely limited motion used in the exercise. The clean and jerk/snatch are very specific, and fail to train the opposite motion at all. How the fuck are you teaching extra recruitment when those exercises obviously favor muscle groups that move the body in one direction?

>>37033360
>stronger muscles are useful in day to day life
Are you a caveman? Do you need to lift rocks? To fight physically for survival?
No shit. Stronger muscles are useless unless you start fights in bars and shit like that. This whole world of ours that we've created eliminates the need of physical effort in day to day life.
But what the fu k am I doing, this is /fit/, with f, not /lit/

>>37033393
Please do not try and derail this. It is provable that a certain amount of base strength makes everything easier, and that having those muscles around improves resilience and robustness in regard to injuries.
However, olympic lifting does not seem to do any of that. People do not do fucking 'sets' of the clean and jerk. They just record themselves doing it once and then post it to Facebook.

>>37033392
>"Stronger" in this context is almost entirely due to repeating the motion
This is literally every lift at a gym
>therefore training specific capability to perform the extremely limited motion used in the exercise.
No
>The clean and jerk/snatch are very specific
Yes
>fail to train the opposite motion at all.
Not really relevant
>How the fuck are you teaching extra recruitment when those exercises obviously favor muscle groups that move the body in one direction?
You have heard about accessory exercises right?

>>37033393
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_labour
kay

>>37033421

Its literally every lift, but the extent to which its true is somewhat variable. Less technical lifts tend to have better (or at least more reliable) carryover to other stuff because you have much less room to improve just by getting more efficient at the movement.

>>37033426
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Completely. You got me!

>>37033421
Splitting my argument into separate clauses that do not depend on context is not going to allow you to understand my argument at all.
You need to realize that I am saying that, even if olympic weightlifting does improve strength, it is inferior to the other methods we have discovered, and that people who champion it as a bodybuilding and fitness improvement are fucking idiotic, because the entire thing is a dickshowing contest that does not actually translate to proper fitness.

>>37033440
Good post.
You kinda RAPED that guy.

File: 1457488587006.png (513KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

513KB, 720x960px

>>37032625
>posting the inferior version

>>37033440
then do those other more effective methods. Your talk with us has obviously strengthened your conviction that there is a better way to be stronger. We are ok with this, go do it. If you don't like Olympic lifting that is fine, but I personally prefer oly over other forms of lifting. I'll lift my way and you'll lift yours. It's called being different people anon, different strokes for different folks.

I've never seen someone misunderstand hip contact before.
What the fuck are you smoking OP?

Have you ever even attempted one of the Olympic lifts? With proper form?

ITT OP tried and olympic lifting at the gym and either was:
>out lifted and emasculated by a grill
Or
>went to snap city

>>37033503
The purpose of this discussion is to seek, through our respective methods, truth. I am not here to be recruited, and that is why I oppose the broscience posted here.
There is nothing subjective about these methods. Fuck what you like, I want to know why people tout that it works.
>>37033550
Nope. I have observed dozens of people olympic lifting, and have seen no such support for the claims made here.

>>37033585
Post your body and you lift stats.

File: powerlifter bench press.webm (2MB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 640x640px

>>37032631
>powerlifting
>respect for form

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

>>37033599
This discussion is not "Olympic lifting doesn't work for me xDDDDD"
It is "Olympic lifting is inferior for the purposes of building fitness and seems to be only for showboating already-accrued fitness."

>>37032961
I'm not that guy, and I agree that Oly will make you strong, but Weightlifters are on tons of gear, benching 315, even without training bench press, is nothing for them.

File: klokov.jpg (570KB, 788x697px) Image search: [Google]

570KB, 788x697px

>>37033617
Okay. Look at most Oly lifters from Post-Soviet countries. They're all taken from a young age and train almost exclusively in Olympic lifts or accessories to train Olympic lifts.

The reason you should post your body and stats is so that you have more evidence to back up your own claims, and I'm just going to assume if you aren't confident enough to post them and will keep dodging out of doing so.

>>37033611
gets me everytime

>>37033611
I literally laughed
You got more retards like this??

>>37033645
Come on, Klokov is on tons of gear. A natty Oly lifter will look like shit, just like a natty powerlifter.

>>37033645

Aside from Bulgaria, the post-soviet countries mostly inherited the old Soviet approach and that system relies heavily only bodybuilding assistance work and general strength exercises alongside both the actual comp lifts and specific strength work.

File: maxresdefault-3.jpg (64KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 1280x720px

>>37033655
Is Ilya on something? He looks like shit all the time but he's the one with all the records.

Olympic lifts aren't really for building strength, they're for building power. While strength is about producing enough force to move a heavy object, power is about producing enough force to move a heavy object as quickly as possible. The idea is that you train Olympic lifts to get better at explosive movement, which is why sprinters do cleans as part of their training

>>37033645
To back up my own claims, I should never use my own experience. That has inherent bias, and we are talking on a basic level.
Are you really telling me that these people train with literally two lifts: The Clean&Jerk and the Snatch, and they get the same gains as you would doing absolutely everything else we do in the pursuit of fitness?

>>37033645
Klokov does bodybuilding accessories like lateral raises and trains on machines too, he didn't get his physique doing Oly lifts only, sorry to break your bubble.

>>37033655
Steroid/peds/cheating the system is rampant in any professional sport at a professional level

>>37033701
This has been pointed out several times in this thread and op has replied with something along the lines of "but when would I use that in my life"

>>37033733
Yeah I picked a bad example.

>>37033719
You sure build a lot of flexibility dodging out of posting the info OP. I just want to see who these claims are coming from.

>>37033749
I would have thought the ability to run really fast would be more obviously useful than the ability to move heavy things

>>37033770
I lift things or move things far more often than I run
>inb4 lol no cardio
I row not run

>>37033796
Ho heavy are these things though? Unless you have a construction job or help people move a lot, I can't really see when strength would come in to play on a daily basis. However I could see someone needing to run to catch a bus, or to get away from a fight, or to jump over something in the street, or move out of the way of a falling object. Even if it doesn't happen on a regular basis, it would seem like something more beneficial to have on the odd occasion you're in trouble.

Having said that, maybe neither are particularly useful for the average person in their daily life

>>37033842

A certain amount of strength makes you a faster runner, at least over the short distance.

>>37033842
I probably pick something up around 20kgs a couple times a day. On the weekends more weight more often

That's the same if I did olympic lifts or not so not really anything to do with the OP

Like it has been pointed out power helps with running fast and jumping

>>37033216
Explaining
>the bump
and
>Everything else

For simplicity lets say that everything up until The Bump is a deadlift. You seem to be under the impression that deadlifts are good and build muscles, so there shouldn't be an issue with this portion of the lift.
There are differences between a DL and a clean or a snatch, and they mainly involve putting you at a slightly more awkward angle to lift it from the ground so you can position yourself better when it is time for
>The Bump

>The Bump
Da Bump is full extension of the hips (i.e glutes/hips going through full ROM) as well as your quads extending fully (Again, full ROM) which launches the bar up in the air.
Imma lay down some basics here.
In order to accelerate anything you need to supply it with power/force. If you want to accelerate something fast you need more of said power or force.

I'll give you a nice example:
>Deadlifting 100kg
To deadlift 100kg you need to supply more force than 100kg into the bar in order for it to move. Let's say you supply 101kg worth of force into the bar - this will result in the slowest and grindiest lift you've ever seen - but you will lift said bar.

>Snatching 100kg
This is very difference, as I now need to supply (guessing based off of experience) 130-140kg worth of force during THE BUMP part as the bar simply wont accelerate enough in order to reach the height it needs.
Note that it is completely unnecessary for me to supply that much force when executing a DL as the bar is just going to my hips and not above my fucking head.

Conclusion:
Supplying 140kg worth of force to launch a weight above your head requires and builds strength and power. The muscles (mainly hips/hip extensors/quads/upper back) used in said activity gets jacked

>Experiment time
Grab a Snatch Grip on the bar next time you're in the gym. DL it with 50-70% of your max and pull it as high as you can. If you can hit your chin I'll be impressed.

>>37033769
Attack my argument, not myself. There is no use in posting information that is irrelevant to the discussion.
>>37033770
Running longer is typically the important part.
>>37033909
The bump is literally kipping the rest of the lift from your hips to your shoulders. Also, "kg" is not a force. Did you mean newtons?
We all know that doing an exercise too quickly, using extra momentum, reduces the muscle you build and the fibers you train. Why are people trying to justify that you are building these things when the entire point of the exercise and form is to lessen that? You really think kipping during a pullup is good for your gains?

>>37033989
Uhh no that's not how it works. Do you think you're actually shoving the bar with your hips?

>>37033909
Addendum:
The form you use primarily engages your legs while the majority of this exercise uses your arms for stabilization, not for the lifting. Doing otherwise can injure your back. What are you fucking on about? By the time the bar is to your hips, you have been using your legs to lift it.

>>37033989
>>37034000
Second addendum:
When you watch the form, the arms are straight through almost the entirety of the exercise. No motion, no force. How can that be engaging your biceps/triceps/forearms when the only motion is in the joint of the shoulder, and that is only in the rotation caused by the drop of your entire body in order to "snatch?"

>>37033989
>kg is not a force
Fair enough. Please read through my physics-illiteracy and my point remains.
>>37034000
This depends largely on how you're performing the lift actually.
Look at Mohammed Ehab as a good example of pulling with his arms (particularly in his clean).

Regardless. The upper back is being used tremendously in the lift as it is actively shrugging up X amount of weight.

Your forearms are being worked by virtue of holding the bar.

Never said anything about using your biceps or triceps in any of the OLY lifts.

>>37034012
you cant lift anything off the ground without using your biceps.even with locked straight arms.
try carrying a pair of 20kg dumbbells for half a mile with straight arms.your biceps will get sore af and probably much faster than your traps will.

>>37034033
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBY78l4Ydb4
As you used him as an example, this will be easier.
The entire time, all that are engaged are his legs. His arms merely stabilize and maintain their locked position. There is a very short time frame (when he is getting under the bar) that his arms are engaged in the upward motion at all, but that is to keep it in place while you get your fucking torso under it so that your legs can do it again.
How does this engage the back, et cetera, when you are PHYSICALLY not moving in the directions those muscles would be contributing to?
>>37034048
The soreness will be from stabilization of the weight, not from weight put length-wise on the muscle. Isometric exercise has been proven to be less effective, and does not help range of motion.

Legit curious and found this article by coach Rip:
http://startingstrength.com/articles/weightlifting_strength_rippetoe.pdf
tl;dr
>weightlifting is all about strength displayed quickly
>speed is all about genetics and you can't do much about it
>strength comes from lifting heavy
>in wl you the weights you use are limited by your speed aka genetics, so it sucks for strength gains (unless you are gifted)
So OP is pretty much right, BUT
>wl teaches you how to reach your genetic potential in speed aka how much muscle you can use simultaneously
To answer your question OP:
You and I are clones. We are equally strong. We deadlift the same. You start doing cleans, I don't. After a while, you will deadlift more than me, because you will be able to get heavier weights off the floor, while in my case they won't even budge. There you go.

>>37034061
>Isometric exercise has been proven to be less effective,
what a bunch of bullshit.less effective for what?
im pretty sure planks are the best exercises for the core stabilizers and they're isometric. their effectiveness is unmatched and their athletic carryover is huge.
as for your vid,you can clearly see the back muscles engaged throughout the movement.

>>37034061
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecRrT6xTJ80

Albeit this is an exercise to help with the snatch it highlights using the upper back a tremendous amount.
Again, please go in and try this for yourself. Please come back and tell me your traps aren't sore as fuck the day after.

The difference between what Tao is doing here and a full Snatch would be that he would utilize a full extension of the hips as well. That's it.

>>37034083
They are the best exercises for the core because they use them simultaneously and reduce the amount of strain and injury that isolation exercises on the core provide. "Best" takes in multiple contexts here.
>>37034103
This is a row. THAT exercise is believably effective because you have a motion over the range. I disagree with his form, as it uses the momentum and the spring of the ligaments to reduce the actual weight lifted, but this is not comparable to the 2 olympic lifts that are touted by others.
The motion that Tao is doing is completely different from the discussed motions, as those maintain disengaged or locked arms.

>>37034083

Planks are kind of unique because the abs are almost the only muscle where their function in athletics is primarily as an isometric hold. Pretty much vverything else is expected to deliver most of its usefulness in terms of movement.

They're also not particularly liked by a lot of coaches for various reasons.

File: 1370478549127.jpg (70KB, 500x628px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 500x628px

>>37032767
>turns out wl is actually easy af for this guy
>could set all kinds of world records while barely training
>doesn't because he doesn't see the point

>>37034082
Muscle fiber recruitment is capped by genetics to the point that you have a certain amount of muscle fibers loosely capped by genetics. Repetitive isolation exercise is what improves the neuro side of neuromuscular movements.

>>37033120
You clearly don't understand physics. Work = Force x Distance

You burn the same amount of calories walking a mile in 15 minutes as you do jogging it in 8 minutes.
You strengthen the same muscles in an explosive motion that you would if you did it slowly.

>>37034125
>i disagree with one of the best olympic lifters worldwide form
post bodypic and lifts please

File: xiaojuntotallynotusinghisweakassfuckingback.jpg (54KB, 460x387px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 460x387px

>>37034103
cont.

See? SEE? It's almost like he's pulling/shrugging the bar up

>>37034125
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1eD2gTe1Jw
You're wrong.
He's unable to pull the bar higher with his back by virtue of it being heavy. Trust me when I tell you that he is aggressively "rowing" the bar up as he is in the first video.

Also; this >>37034151

You are the best troll in this world, I concede to your bait

>>37034145
I'm gonna need some sauce on that

>>37034144
This is a fresh joke approach. Some circa 2007 humor here, and I have to say I miss it.
Thanks, cutie.
>>37034148
A muscle exerting a -g + x acceleration on an object over y seconds is going to experience more strain than exerting the same -g + x acceleration over y/20 seconds. Muscles are strengthened through exposure to strain.
Momentary strength is greater than sustained strength. Sustained strength trains both. You should train sustained, controlled movements that also involve explosive starts.

File: rezazadeh-athens1[1].jpg (105KB, 472x421px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 472x421px

>>37033645
what a successful olympic weightlifter looks like

>>37034148

Actually moreso in some cases as strength is partially about fibre recruitment. How do you maximise fibre recruitment? You need maximal effort, which shakes out to lifting either at maximal force output or at near-maximal weights.

>>37034161
This guy's clean has a definite shoulder involvement. In no other form video have I seen that, and I can appreciate that THIS could possibly give some arm engagement. Does it mean that the arm is engaged long enough for a proper strain to increase muscle mass and utilize the muscle of its full range of motion? Fuck no.
>>37034163
>>37034186
This guy likely has it. I read it in a few studies that measured strength as a function of muscle fiber recruitment. When you first train in weights, 80% of your increases are because you are learning how to recruit more muscle fibers.

File: totesnot.jpg (139KB, 2048x1362px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 2048x1362px

>>37034161
cont
look, another one who is totally not using his arms or upper back.

>>37034205
That's a snatch and it's the same guy who was doing the rows.

>>37034205
Just to clarify

OLY lifts are not very arm dominant. The sport is primarily dependent on your legs (quads in particular), hips and back. Delts also need to be strong in order to support weight overhead, but that's about it.


Nobody cares about your bicep strength in OLY. There's an argument to be had about tricep strength, but that's about it.

>>37034082
>Mark "lowbar squats have the best carry-over to WL" Rippetoe
>Anything ever about weightlifting

>>37034226
I figured the "snatch" was what you did at the end, and that pulling the bar from the floor to the hips was titled the "clean." Good to know that this is not the case.
My point remains, however, that Tao is involving more arms and less placement than others have in the past. Other videos I see of olympic weightlifting are entirely based on moving your body such that you can minimize the upper body involvement, and they are called "good form."
The freeze-frame you have provided shows arms being engaged minimally while he is positioning for the rest of it. This is not an engaged force applied to the muscle across its range of motion. Watch the rest of the video to see that he likely disengages his arms in order to essentially kip the exercise.

>>37034267

There is also a slight argument about bicep strength in oly at least for longevity. They're going to be stabilising the elbow under load so stronger biceps (also triceps) mean more stability and less chance of blowing your elbow out on a jerk.

Way down the list of priorities though.

>>37034276
dyel? I'm legit curious

>>37034298
Absolutely; I had just made the association when it was called the "clean and jerk" that the power clean described essentially the same motion done in both the c&j and the snatch, so I figured the snatch was just a clean interrupted by the snatch motion.
I can correct that, now.

>>37034276
>Other videos I see of olympic weightlifting are entirely based on moving your body such that you can minimize the upper body involvement, and they are called "good form."
All lifts are based on putting your body in favorable positions.

>>37034290
Yes, but I figured that was a bit overboard since this guy can't tell a clean apart from a snatch and still feels the need to give us his opinion on it.

>>37033585
>There is nothing subjective about these methods.
OK, let's forgo qualitative analysis, and just run the numbers...
>I have observed dozens
what is ... anecdotal?
... statistically insignificant?

>>37034317
Right,
So the Snatch is a different lift from the C&J.
The Snatch is where you place the hands wider and go directly from the floor to an OH position. If you catch the bar above parallel, that's a power snatch.

Clean & Jerk (C&J) is where you start the lift from the floor and move it to your shoulders at which point you then perform the Jerk and go into an overhead position.

Do you feel that you're knowledgable enough to comment on how OLY lifts don't build muscle/are useless tricks when you can't even tell them apart or know anything about them?

>>37034320
Aye, and this one seems to minimize effort and the force involved, putting it all on the lower body.
>>37034328
That part was clearly a misunderstanding in the labeling of the exercises, not the difference between the two. As I said, I was referring to the "clean" (incorrect term, but the part where you lift up to your hips) part of the snatch.
>>37034344
The observations peaked further investigation, and none of the form videos nor the majority of the actual performances involve anything different. Observed dozens in person, seen many more online.
>>37034352
I know much about them. The beginning of the C&J and the Snatch are so similar in general performance that I had made an associative mistake in labeling a sub-process of the exercise.

File: OP.jpg (146KB, 1024x1024px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 1024x1024px

>>37034365
>putting it all in the lower body

YES GOD DAMN IT. It's mainly a lift where you use your legs and back.

Admit it, pic related is you. Hardcore is when you stand on a bosu ball

>>37034148
Wew lad. Please. You took kinematics 101 and now you're the shit.
It's not all about work produced.
If it were, then doing 2 reps with 100kg would do exactly the same for you as doing 50 reps with 4kg. And isostatic exercises wouldn't get you stronger, which they do.

Becoming stronger is all about the stimulus you recover from. And this stimulus isn't proportional to the work done.

>>37032631

>respect for form
>low bar squat

pick one

>>37034408
>Muh highbar ay tee gee

>>37034395
>mainly a lift where you use your legs and back
So you are trying to say that you can get full-body fitness out of only doing those two primarily lower body exercises?
See where I get confused?

>>37034408

Its not like any competition lift is going to have respect for form. Once there's rules involved, the name of the game becomes being as efficient as possible without getting called for breaking them.

>>37034420
where have I or anyone said you can get "full-body fitness" from just doing the Snatch and the C&J? See where I get confused?

Please go and play on the highway unsupervised

>>37034436
>give me a real understanding of the purpose of these, other than to boost ego
From post one, you have yet to provide any other purpose for it. The major claim in this thread, and general fitness circles, is that they are the be-all-end-all of lifting. What the fuck is that?

ITT: butthurt power lifters who have shit mobility

>>37034462
No the general claim in this thread is that you are wrong.
Which you are.

In regards to it being an ego lift I'm not sure what to say. Would it be less of an ego lift if you involved your biceps more? I don't get it. It's lower body dominant movement. You still use your upper body (back and delts primarily).

I nor anyone in this thread has said it is the be-all-end-all of lifting.

Nobody who does OLY says that. Everyone who does OLY does the following:
>squats
>frontsquats
>some sort of pull of the floor aside from Cleans and Snatch
>some sort of pressing movement
>tons of ab and lower back isolation

This is like being upset that ring gymnasts don't focus on their leg development over their upper body development.
Wtf are you on about?

>>37034507
cont.

>>37034462
>The major claim in this thread, and general fitness circles, is that they are the be-all-end-all of lifting. What the fuck is that?

I've not seen anyone else state this - except you stating that other people state this. And random "PICK TWO EXERCISES YOU CAN DO ONLY LOL".

Better for your joints than PL
It's the only lifting competition that is respected internationally

>>37033611
I can't stop laughing.

>>37034507
Why do I _only_ see these fucks doing and posting olympic lifts, in that case? I guess a vast majority of these cunts are doing it for ego, and I got lost in the associative bias.
It still makes no sense to do them when they are inferior to other exercises we use, which was the implied argument.
>>37034543
The thread is not discussing the competition, but the actual practice of it.

>>37034563

You keep assigning inferior and superior as though they were universal qualities, rather than based on intent.

>>37034558
Me neither. I mean, just look at the kid, he barely even squats over 200 kg, while weighing less than 70 kg. Laughing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJAFzdFaZK4

>>37034580
They are inferior in context. Stop blowing your autism for a minute.

>>37034563
>It still makes no sense to do them when they are inferior to other exercises we use, which was the implied argument.
Yes, because doing the competition lifts for the sport you compete in is inferior for becoming good at the sport. Idiot.

ITT: OPs syndromes point in a southerly direction.

>>37032625
It's fine on your joints actually.

More importantly its one of if not the best way to develop power as an athlete. It'll help you sprint, jump higher, swing a bat harder etc. If you're lifting for fitness benefits Oly is great. If you're trying to body build don't bother with it.