So I saw this image floating around fb, what is your defense /fit/

that's not true i bet

please don't assume all vegans are so because "aww animals :^("

I couldn't give a fuck about animals, I'm only vegan for the environment.

>According to the USDA’s Agricultural Research Service’s Nutrient Data Laboratory database, 100 calories of broiled beef, top sirloin steak has exactly 11.08 grams of protein and 100 calories of chopped, raw broccoli has exactly 8.29. I’

>>36680424
Ur gonna be eating a shit load of broccoli

>>36680438
2.6 g per cup so not bad.

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>>36680424
That is 100% not true. Vegans are delusional as fuck.

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wot

100 calories of broccoli is a fuckton of broccoli

According to this, it's 5 cups

http://www.sparkpeople.com/resource/nutrition_articles.asp?id=1987

>>36680463
still not gonna let mommy force me to eat my vegetables
>>36680473
>>36680474
i don't get why they try and fucking convert everyone it's like a fucking religion

Yeah but that's taking info out of context.

100 grams of broccoli = 2.8gr of protein

100 grams of beef = 26gr of protein

Most of it is resistant protein, not bioavailable.

>Vegans

A never-ending source of laffs.

According to google 100 cals broccoli = 8.4g and 100 cals rib eye (what I usually eat) = 8.15g

Interesting, but I'm not about to become vegan.

Also I eat about 1/4 lb of broccoli a day and I can confirm if you ate enough broccoli to equal the amount of protein you got from eating a lb of steak you would probably die in your sleep from methane poisoning because you would be farting your fucking brains out.

>>36680480
you sound like a fag

>with none of the violence

but violence is the most delicious part that gives you test

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>>36680562

>>36680542

>bioavailable protein

W-what does it do once it enters my blood

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1) the protein content is pretty much backwards
2) we can't break down cellulose, so even with cooking, we can't absorb all the protein found in broccoli
3) broccoli doesn't have a more complete amino acid profile which is very important in terms of determining good and poor sources of protein
4) pic is nutrition info from the frozen broccoli I ate a 1/3 of. I can't eat 4 cups of broccoli as part of one meal sitting unless the entire meal itself was broccoli, in which case, I'd hang myself for being such a poorfag

>>36680424

The image is based on this, the author of which doesn't even seem to be vegan

http://blog.timesunion.com/healthylife/the-food-with-the-most-protein-is/7185/

They're basically saying to implement other sources of protein into your diet besides just meat, which is reasonable

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>>36680424

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>>36680705
my sources tell me this is more accurate

>>36680424
Its a blatant lie. If this is what vegans have to resort to that should be evidence enough to disregard most of what they say. Broccoli is delicious and nutritious though, A+ veg would eat again.

The funny thing is, while the pic may be misleading, the point still remains, there are other sources of protein besides meat and dairy, and the good thing about these other sources is that they don't directly harm another living being.

Also, like >>36680457 said, I'm vegan for the environment. Did you know that one burger is the equivalent of two and a half months worth of showers? Think about that

>>36680777
>one burger is the equivalent of two and a half months worth of showers

Equivalent in what? Wtf are you talking about?

>>36680424
My defense is broccoli taste like ass and didn't suffer enough before reaching my paper plate

>>36680795
In the amount of water that it takes to raise cattle.

>>36680806
Don't buy produce out of season you dunkass

>>36680424
>salsa: a fuckin newspaper

fuckin lold, you faggots believe any shit

> fb

>>36680795
Shhhh Shhhh shh. He's a vegan anon. What he says isn't supposed to make sense. It's the onset of delirium from depriving himself from valuable nutrients that meat and meat based products provide. He probably doesn't even know what a shower is because he is such a filthy fucking hippy

>>36680813
Meat is always in season

>>36680777
What they dont tell you is that while it might have the same amount of protein per kg of food, a kg of meat is faster to eat than a kg of broccoli which weights nothing.

A 300 grms steak of meat can be eaten in what? 1 minute? 300 grms of broccoli is literally a whole bowl. Its just not productive.

>>36680853
Yeah, but good broccoli doesn't taste like ass.

>>36680777
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fertilizer+runoff+
Think about that

>>36680514
Fucking vegans man
Who the fuck counts per 100 kcal

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>>36680453
>implying climate change is real

>>36680424
100 gr of brocoli:
Calories 29
Protein 3 gr

That means that you have to eat 344 gr of brocoli for 100 calories and its 10.3 gr of protein

>>36680855
300 grams of meat is the exact same weight as 300 grams of broccoli, do you know how weight works bro?

>>36680818
it's not wrong, though. you can easily verify it.

the catch is that 100 calories of broccoli is like 5cups of fuckin broccoli while 100 calories of beef is 40g

>>36680813
So it takes two and a half months worth of shower water to make a burger since that's how much it takes to raise a cow?

You do know 1 cow =|= 1 burger?

>>36680843
I forgot a word, sue me faggot.
Why is meat so fucking magical? What exactly does meat contain that you can't obtain from plant based sources?
>muh B12
That's found in bacteria, which the animals you eat are supplemented with anyway, so we're all supplementing B12 since there's no more natural sources.

Why so aggressive anon? I bet you didn't know the effect animal agriculture has on the environment. Educate yourself and then see why our current eating methods aren't sustainable at all.
>generalizing all vegans as hippies
I guess you're a fat, meat-eating obese slob that can't see his own dick when he looks down, 33% of the United States is :^)

>>36680795
Equivalent in that vegans have neither.

>>36680889
No retard. I mean that 300 grams of meat is just a small steak while 300 grams of broccoli is literally a whole plate full of it.

You can eat 300 grams of meat like nothing, while it would take a considerable amount of time to eat 300 grams of broccoli.

Not that a vegan piece of shit would understand.

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>be me
>5-6 years old
>realize broccoli look like small trees
>tell my mummy its just like in jurassic park
>mummy tells me that eating broccoli will make me big as a dynosaur
>eat a shitload of broccoli everyday

am I going to make it ?

Broccoli makes me fart the worst smelling farts in all of existence.

>>36680914
4chan is for people 18 and older, little guy. You should be in bed or on club penguin

>>36680862
Most of the crops we grow now go into feeding animals, so if we stopped our consumption of animals, the amount of crops we would need to grow would decrease, which would decrease the effects of fertilizer runoff
Think about that :^)

>>36680904
Vegans cant get b12 from their diet. Simple as that. Spin it as you want it.

You need vitamins, and not just any vitamin supplement but microminiaturized b12 so you can absorb it properly.

> bet you didn't know the effect animal agriculture has on the environment
Every knows. The issue is that no one gives a fuck. If you go full autist on how your phone or computer was made you will surely find worse practices there.

>>36680902
No fuck face, it takes 2500 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of beed, and that's a conservative estimate. I just put it into simple terms so your cholesterol-clogged brain could understand :^)

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>>36680908
>a kg of meat is faster to eat than a kg of broccoli which weights nothing

>impying a kg of broccoli weighs less than a kg of meat

Just stop talking man before you embarass yourself even more.

>>36680438

i think it is true, it says per 100 calories..


Id bet 100 calories of beef is like 200g, but 100 calories of broccoli is about 700g.

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>>36680925
>2016
>not lifting for ur mummy

does ur mummy hates you or something?


i bet she kicked you out of the basement
aswell

100 calories is fucking lot of brocolli

>>36680938
>Vegans cant get b12 from their diet. Simple as that. Spin it as you want it.
I'm not vegan, but neither can meat-eaters unless their food is fortified with it. No one gets B12 from natural sources anymore. Vegans get it through fortified foods or supplements and so do meat-eaters. Vegan sources don't come bundled with the cholesterol and links to chronic disease, though.

>>36680928
>Most of the crops we grow now go into feeding animals, so if we stopped our consumption of animals, the amount of crops we would need to grow would decrease
Yes, because if meat was suddenly taken off the table for consumption, we wouldn't need to fill that nutritional gap with more of another kind of food, right? Jesus fucking christ...

>>36680938
Nutritional yeast and fortified foods have B12 friend, it's just easier for a lot of people to take a supplement. 40% of the US has a b12 deficiency and only about 3% of people in the US are vegan. Think about that

Animal agriculture is objectively worse, it is the leading contributor (51%) to climate change globally. No phone or computer causes that much damage. Besides, trying to live in today's society without a phone or computer and still being successful is impossible, whereas changing your eating habits is a relatively simple thing to do, friend.

>>36680424
100 grams of beef vs 2 pounds of broccoli
Yummy

>>36680938
Vegetarian here, but you don't get b 12 from regular foods, either.

You realize animals are supplemented b 12 right?

>>36680868
People with eating disorders

>>36680463
Sweet that means I have to eat only 11 cups of broccoli post workout to get my brotein

>>36680974
A grass fed cow requires 50 acres of land, you don't think we could grow a lot more veggies with that land? It's common sense bro

>>36681012
The image says 100 calories per food, not 100g per food, you blithering idiot

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>>36680948
Ok, since you are retarded.

Meat weights much more than Broccoli. 300 grams of meat is much less food and faster to eat than 300 grams of broccoli which takes more space.

Meat also has higher amount of calories per gram. So it increases the difference even further.

Lemme put it on a ms paint graphic for your vegan brain to understand.

>>36680943
And cows don't piss back out some water and use some more to make milk? Then use some more to take big sloppy shits that farmers scoop up to mix with the dirt that makes you broccoli? Cows just convert 100% of that water into energy?

Meat eaters getting BTFO ITT, holy shit
No one can refute the environmental claims without saying something edgy like "omg who le cares XD"

>>36681029
what the actual fuck are you trying to say here, pal
Has the cholesterol started affecting your brain now? :^)

>>36680974

It's like you think meat is produced by putting a meat seed in the ground and harvesting meat plants 6 months later. If 10x more food is grown to feed animals before they're eventually slaughtered to feed people, just growing plants directly for humans would decrease the amount of crops needing to be grown.

>>36681032
But no one claimed otherwise. Who are you arguing with? Literally no one said or thinks that meat doesnt waste gallons of water. But as you said "omg who le cares XD". Which is exactly what you think about Open-pit mining for your electronics.

>comparing broccoli to anything but the leanest cuts of meat.
You mean to tell me broccoli has more protein per calorie versus something that gets over half it's calories from fat, who could have guessed?

>>36681024

i eat more Broccoli fagget

>>36681032
Farmers do more to harm the environment than cows do. Or have you forgotten the grapes of wrath? I seem to remember Russia draining the entire Aral sea to plant some beets

how the fuck are you going to eat all that broccoli though

>>36681052
Like I said here >>36680977
"Animal agriculture is objectively worse, it is the leading contributor (51%) to climate change globally. No phone or computer causes that much damage. Besides, trying to live in today's society without a phone or computer and still being successful is impossible, whereas changing your eating habits is a relatively simple thing to do, friend."

Read the responses before you post, friend :^)

Incomplete amino acid bruh bruh.

>>36681045
You're trying to make it sound like all that water vanishes into nothing and I'm calling you out on your bullshit. Eat some meat so that you can comprehend the basic English language

Water in , water out.

>>36681082
Then get a wider variety of veggies, like spinach.

Variety of veggies + higher quantities of veggies + a fuckload of vitamins and minerals > bioavailable protein + heart disease + cancer

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>>36681081
Oh well, good luck for you that all your harm to the world is impossible to get around and justified by the needs as said...by yourself.

And what a bad luck that every bad thing we do, its easily avoidable and should be at all costs.

Its like you picked exactly the right bad things to do. Such a fortunate and lucky guy.

Also, pic related. Fuck off with your climate change. Open pit mining harms much more the environment.

>>36681017
Which is 50 more acres contributing to fucking up water sources due to the runoff. Are the gaps starting to fill in yet? Clean water is already becoming scarcer, and you really think putting more fertilizer into the ground water systems isn't going to further fuck things up?

>>36681051
In the short term, sure, but again, you still have a large nutritional gap to fill with plants, a gap that would require even more plant production, thus contributing to further water pollution. Just because you take a source of food away doesn't mean that the space left behind gets to be ignored

>>36680904
How much technology do you own? You ride a bike everywhere? You can't pick and fucking choose what you want to be an activist about and be and ass hole about it. If you wanna be a douchebag about your diet then go full on so I can't call you on your bullshit.

>>36681091
So the cow just gives back 2500 gallons of water, is that it? It's not just the cow, it's what the cow eats too that needs water to grow. 56% of US freshwater is used by feed. Think about that.
Also that's 2500 gallons per POUND, a cow uses a fuckload more in it's lifetime.

>>36680424
100cal of steak is like 70g and 100cal of broccoli is more than half a kilo. Hf eating all ghat shit

>>36681139
Shoo gains goblin. Shoo

>>36681139
I want sources on everything you have said in this thread.

>>36681128
>>36681133
Since you two don't seem to understand:
Phones and computers have been made necessary by modern society. Animal products are not necessary, made possible by our modern society. Animal agriculture is the LEADING contributor to climate change. We should try to minimize our impact on climate change. Therefore, we should not eat animal products and support animal agriculture.
There now, was that so hard? Think logically friends, it's pretty fun :^)

>>36681176
He is right about the waste of water. He is just wrong about manmade climate change.

See
>>36681128

>>36681139
Cows live 1-2 years before they bite the bullet. You live longer and your veggies require water too. I never once mentioned they pissed back out all the water as you could see by my break down. You're the one saying the use it and while leaving out any mention of recycled resources.

Even the water from my fucking shower goes down the drain with my pubes and gets used to water your precious veggies.

Btw. Cow feed is plants fagget. You're saying 56% of water gets used to water cow veggies. Even then cow feed is dried when it arrives for them so that water goes somewhere

>>36681190
>Animal agriculture is the LEADING contributor to climate change
But there is no such thing as manmade climate change. See the graphic.

Also, how convenient that your videogames and candy crush phones are necessary for modern society. World did just fine 30 years ago without them.

I deem yummy dishes and delicious meet necessary for society too. What now?

>>36680777

Do you know what soy, rice, and palm oil are doing to the environment? It's not just the meat industry killing the environment, it's that there are too many goddamn people in this world.

>>36681190
So what about a car? Definitely not required for anything you can easily bike everywhere or run/walk. Also I'm fairly sure if you looked you could find and environmental phone. It would be a flip with no Internet and you would turn your rich kid nose at it and hug your iphone. Animals kill animals. It's fucking nature, it always has been and humans are animals. Now if you want to talk about the terrible.problem.with factory farming and mass production of cattle we can actually work together instead of us having to listen to your shitty ideals and "morals"

>>36681176
Sure thing friend:
>animal agriculture is leading contributor to climate change: http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294
>2500 gallons = 1 pound of beef: https://www.animalsciencepublications.org/publications/jas/abstracts/71/4/818?search-result=1
Any other sources I forgot, refer to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpmTiHjUEBU
He lists his sources at the bottom too which 4chan won't let me post.

>>36680943
So if every 1lb of beef needs 2500 gallons of water, and if 1 gallon of water is 3.8 kg, thats about 9500 kg of water per pound. So if you have a cow that you get 490 lbs of meat from that cow would have drank over 4.5 MILLION KILOGRAMS OF WATER. That's nearly 2 and a half tonnes of water per day if it lived to be 5 years old. You sound like you need some more cholesterol, you aren't right in the head

>>36680453

hurdur I dont care about animals just the environment. eat shit faggot

>>36681239
>http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294
>GHG emissions
>changing the climate in a noticeable way.

Reddit is the other way, champ. Climate change is cyclical and by no means related to human activities.

>>36681276

Water use includes the water used to grow the crops that feed the cow. Maybe too much cholesterol for you, buddy.

>>36681214
>he doesn't think we're accelerating the rate of climate change
wow, kill yourself my man

Also, let's break down your argument. You are literally saying that phones aren't necessary in modern society because we did "just fine" 30 years ago. I've got news for you buddy, the world changed a shitload in the past 30 years, phones are essentially a necessity at this point in time, arguing that we don't need phones because we didn't need them 30 years ago is just laughable. At least make it hard for me to refute your shitty arguments.
There is an obvious benefit to having phones. What exactly is the benefit that meat provides, since you can get everything from a plant-based diet?

>>36681132

>In the short term, sure, but again, you still have a large nutritional gap to fill with plants, a gap that would require even more plant production

What do you mean?

>>36681190
I am willing to invest time into looking this up if you tell me by what mechanism does animal agriculture lead to climate change? CO2 emissions?

what sort of impact are we actually on about here?

>>36681128
>>36681214

>denying climate change just to have an argument

Lurker here. This is pathetic.

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

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>>36681302
Lol right!? XD

>>36681302
>What exactly is the benefit that meat provides, since you can get everything from a plant-based diet?
Pleasure, taste. Its not all working for your great communist leaders. You need to live your life too. And part of my life is enjoying a damn fine bbq with friends.

You are not gonna make it.

>he doesn't think we're accelerating the rate of climate change
No, we arent. It literally goes at the same rate as the last time it did 1k years ago. In fact the curve is slower this time so it might not even be as hard.

>>36681341
There is climate change. Just not manmade. The little graphic, might be simple but it just dispels any retarded theory. Btw literally less than 5% of the scientific world approves the theory of manmade climate change. Its just a very loud minority. The rest knows climate change is cyclical and natural.

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100 calories is a fucking shitload of broccoli

>>36681341
kek, its literally the same graph I showed t you. It doesnt say anything about man made cc. It just says the climate is getting hotter. Like the fucking graph I posted already.

Please eat meat. You are getting more retarded every second.

>>36681331
Yes, 18-51% of greenhouse gas emissions are from animal agriculture. The 18% figure is from the United Nation FAO from 2006, and the 51% figure accounts for exponential growth in livestock production (60 billion land animals per year btw). This is not just animals, it's also large scale deforestation and forest-burning to make space for the animals to grow.
More facts and stuff here, it's actually pretty interesting: http://bittman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/11/fao-yields-to-meat-industry-pressure-on-climate-change/

>>36680777
And how do you think that broccoli grows?

>>36681106

Oh word, I'm not saying you shouldn't go ham on veggies vs... err ham. Just saying Broccoli does not provide complete protos like a lot of meat does. It's all about moderation for red meats.

>>36681383

> It doesnt say anything about man made cc.

The first sentence.

"Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities."

>>36681309
The implication is that if you have 10x the amount of plant matter going to feed meat sources, that same amount of plant matter could be used to feed humans directly, which is true to a certain degree. However, unlike cows, we can't process cellulose efficiently, and thus our dietary needs are different, which would require us to shift the production of plants away from one to another, as well as developing new land (or in the arguable case of some anon, old land used for meat production) to account for the gaps formed by eliminating the meat proteins/amino acids from our diets.

Look at it this way: adult cow feed is largely grains and corn which has some protein content, but none that is really bioavailable to us. Therefore, we'd need to shift to more production of other plants to fill in the protein gap, but not only that, we'd need to produce enough of the variety of plants to meet the amino acid needs.

Land that was once used for corn for cow feed would say be used for soy. However, since we would require more than just soy, we'd need to up production of plants like spinach or specific grains to make up for that amino imbalance. This would thus very likely require a) more farmland, and b) more chemical usage to facilitate the growth of the plants in non-native environments

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So /fit/ how do you eat your meat?

BBQ? Oven? Spanish asados? I kinda want to try the spanish asados with stakes. I will someday make one of these on my house.

>>36681414
>that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree:
Are you telling me that 97% of the scientists that publish about climate change believe in climate change? WOOOOOAAAHHHH

This is actually a conspiracy if you go on /pol/. Back in the olden days meat was seen as a luxury. There is a push to go back to that as protein is harder to acquire through vegetables and very much needed for proper development. If you can make meat a super luxury item so people can't afford it then you can essentially have all your underclass plebs grow up half retarded because they never had proper nutrition, and thus your position at the top of the chain remains unchecked.

>>36681347
Ok great, you finally admitted there's no advantage besides taste and pleasure. Let's think about that justification, because now your whole argument relies on this. Using pleasure as a justification is a shitty justification because you can literally justify anything with "but it feels/tastes good," try to understand this, friend.

There's no need to continue eating animal products when I've showed you how damaging they are to the environment, and the only way you can justify it is by saying "muh taste." This is incredibly selfish, and I hope you see the logic and stop eating animal products.

>>36681341
http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/03/john-cook-skeptical-science.html

>>36681431

>Look at it this way: adult cow feed is largely grains and corn which has some protein content, but none that is really bioavailable to us.

.... Nigga what do you think humans have been eating for the last 10,000 years? Grains, beans, potatoes

>Land that was once used for corn for cow feed would say be used for soy. However, since we would require more than just soy, we'd need to up production of plants like spinach or specific grains to make up for that amino imbalance

For one, we already grow and eat more than one kind of plant food. People already grow and eat spinach and grains alongside meat. You'd just replace the meat with beans, which don't have to be soy either.

>>36681431
>growing food for 60 billion animals AND 7 billion humans takes up more space and uses more resources than growing food for 7 billion humans
do you even read the shit you type? jesus

Also, look at all these sources of protein:
Broccoli: 5 grams per cup
Spinach: 5 grams per cup
Rye Grains: 5 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Rolled Oats: 7 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Millet: 5 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Amaranth: 6 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Freekah: 5 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Teff: 7 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Buckwheat: 7 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Almond Butter: 7 Grams per 2 tablespoons
Spirulina: 4 grams per teaspoon (!!)
Chlorella: 2 grams per teaspoon
Chia seeds: 10 grams per 2 tablespoons
Flax Seeds: 5 grams per 2 tablespoons
Cacao Powder: 5 grams per 2 tablespoons
Maca: 3 grams per tablespoon
Acai: 5 grams per 3 ounce frozen puree
Kale: 5 grams per cup
Lentils- 18 grams per cup
Black Beans- 13 grams per cup
Chickpeas- 13 grams per cup
Tofu: 10 grams per 3 ounces
Tempeh: 10 grams per 2 ounces
Endamame (Soybeans) – 16 grams per cup
Romaine Lettuce: 3 grams per cup
Sunflower Seeds: 10 grams per 1/4 cup
Almonds: 7 grams per 1/4 cup
Pumpkin Seeds: 10 grams per 1/4 cup
Coconut Flour: 3.5 grams per 2 tablespoons
Quinoa: 7 grams per 1/2 cup cooked
Plant-Based Protein Powders (hemp, pea, brown rice, cranberry bean, soy, etc.) : 17-25 grams per scoop (depending on the brand)
Green Peas: 8 grams per cup

>>36681467

when the universe ends and all sentience is gone, nothing we do or have ever done will matter. So it doesn't matter now either.

>>36680453
>tfw environment propaganda makes you eat shit

>>36680479
This

>>36680424
vegetable protein is shit

>>36681507
>nothing matters ever we're all gonna die anyway hurr durr i'm a faggot
Thanks friend, you could have just said you conceded the argument but it's cool, it was fun arguing with you even though your arguments were pretty shitty

>>36681448
You might be retarded

Aaaaaaaand all the meatfags left because they got BTFO.
>meat, not even once
and this thread and the replies only prove that

>retards in this thread don't understand how greenhouse gases work
>being this cucked by the petroleum industry
It's almost like the petroleum industry has been spending millions of dollars (for decades) convincing plebs that oil is great and muh Merica. Oh wait it has.

>>36681494
>Nigga what do you think humans have been eating for the last 10,000 years? Grains, beans, potatoes
Try reaching your protein requirements through potatoes and grains. I'll fucking wait.

>For one, we already grow and eat more than one kind of plant food. People already grow and eat spinach and grains alongside meat. You'd just replace the meat with beans, which don't have to be soy either.
I never said we didn't. However we'd still have to shift the production to growing more beans on the land that already produces animal feed, and potentially even more land to meet the requirements of enough people.

>>36681498
Did you even read what I typed? Growing food for cow's nutrition is not the exact same fucking thing as growing plants for human nutrition due to the different needs of the species.

Protein content says nothing about the bioavailablity of the protein nor the amino acid make-up of the food in question. To meet the proper needs while accounting for the shortcomings of plant based proteins, you'd need to shift and expand on the current agricultural system in place, both actions causing detrimental environmental changes as well.

You really think coconuts are going to grow as effectively as corn in the Midwest US without some major ecosystem changes?

>>36680777
Growing food is water intensive also. Vegans love nuts see how much water it takes too produce almonds.
Here is the real problem folks..... there are way too many people.

>>36681606

>Try reaching your protein requirements through potatoes and grains. I'll fucking wait.

Why didn't you mention beans like I did? And assuming we're talking about society as a whole, even just a grain and potato diet easily meets protein needs for the majority of people

>we'd still have to shift the production to growing more beans on the land that already produces animal feed, and potentially even more land to meet the requirements of enough people.

I don't see how your mind is working on this. Millions of tons of extra food are grown each year to feed animals. If you skip that and grow, say, lentils, it's impossible to not dramatically decrease the amount of crops you're growing. Where are you getting the idea that you'd need to grow more food to feed people than we currently grow to feed billions of animals + ourselves?

>>36681498
>Broccoli: 5 grams per cup
>20 cups for 200 grams
>20 cups of broccoli

Just fuck my shit up.

>>36681644
I propose we kill vegans. That would wipe out like 92% of India though

>>36681644
>not reading the thread and seeing "1 pound of beef=2500 gallons of water"
Pretty sure 1 pound of nuts doesn't waste that much water m8

>>36681658
>having this much irrational hatred towards vegans
We're not the ones fucking up the planet, the animal agriculture industry and all its supporters are the ones doing a fantastic job of that.

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>>36681679

You're a dumbass

>>36681644
It takes even more water to activate them.

>>36681650
>Why didn't you mention beans like I did?
I didn't mention beans because beans are generally considered sources of protein far more than potatoes.

>even just a grain and potato diet easily meets protein needs for the majority of people
Only if you want to live in a world of manlets.

>Where are you getting the idea that you'd need to grow more food to feed people than we currently grow to feed billions of animals + ourselves?
See the last part of >>36681606

Not all plant-based foods are equal, so it wouldn't be a 1:1 ratio of converting animal feed farms to pure plant protein farms due to the biological shortcomings the befall the diet. Even just speaking from a base nutritional standpoint (e.g. no bodybuilding diets, and going by standard average numbers worldwide), the production shift is still inherently risky to the environment, and even more so if we go beyond the base survival nutrition

>>36681695

> Grown on over a million acres in California, alfalfa sucks up more water than any other crop in the state. And it has one primary destination: cattle. Increasingly popular grass-fed beef operations typically rely on alfalfa as a supplement to pasture grass. Alfalfa hay is also an integral feed source for factory-farmed cows, especially those involved in dairy production.

>>36681707

>Even just speaking from a base nutritional standpoint (e.g. no bodybuilding diets, and going by standard average numbers worldwide), the production shift is still inherently risky to the environment,

How? I just don't get how you're coming to that conclusion, especially when it's a conclusion that no scientists agree with. The shift towards plant foods is something that has to happen. There's no way it wouldn't be more sustainable and environmentally friendly.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet

>>36681695
You're a fat piece of shit that lacks the intelligence to properly refute a single claim ITT
I can do it too friend :^)
Ironic you post that picture when the animal products you most likely eat are a huge contributor to the drought in CA

>>36681719
Dairy is milk anon. Milk is just water made better. The cows are giving us back the water we give them in the form of gallons

>>36681743

All jokes aside, california is fucked.

>>36681742
> calling someone fat as a rebuttal and then commenting on their intelligence

I love you too anon.

>>36681743
Milk lowers testoterone friend
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976
Enjoy your low test :^)

>>36681658
Indians are not vegans. We drink a fuckton of milk and use plenty of animal products. In fact, vegans are considered faggots even in India.

>>36681719
>>36681742

Instead of trying to constantly make everyone's life shittier it would be nice if you liberals did something about the exploding populations in the Hispanic and black communities and the exploding populations in Africa and Asia drying up the water tables.

>>36681748
All jokes aside they steal their water from the colorado? River along with 4? Other states. Too lazy to look it up

>>36681767
>literal poo in loo trying to insult anyone
top kek m80, don't you have a gym to go stink up?

>>36681771

>red herring

>>36681767
And Indians are considered puke-worthy worldwide.

>>36680424
99% of our land based meat sources only need enough natural grazing land to feed breed and live.
That's it.

Before the europeans came and slaughtered the buffalo till they were nothing, there was more then enough of the animal and it's tasty beyond healthy meat to feed the entire country twice. No extra industries created to produce genetically engineered corn, no extra fertilizer, no extra antibiotics no nothing.

If we simply stopped eating meat, the level of destruction to the earth would be catastrophic.

What it takes to feed three pigs and a few chickens? Grass worms and scrap.
What it takes to grow the foods that would be needed to make up for the loss of nutrients that those animals would provide? A fuckload more land and expertise then most people have.

To be honest, we really should all go back to grazing on random nutrient rich plants and hunting and fishing.

>>36681679
>irrational hatred

I don't have irrational hatred towards cows and yet I've helped kill more in my lifetime than vegans

>>36681792

>I watched a couple animal abuse videos now I'm a vegan faggot

You're nothing more than a useful idiot >>36681466

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>2000+8+8
>eating plants
http://www.zerocarbhealth.com/index.php/2015/12/03/plant-foods-are-toxic/#more-419

>>36681810
I sincerely hope you're trolling
>60 billions animals and 7 billions humans requiring LESS food than just 7 billion humans
You either lack reasoning skills, never took a math class, or possibly both. Either way, you should probably kill yourself so the world would be a better place.

>>36681827
>I saw a few infographics and now I'm a /pol/tard

You're nothing more than a useful idiot

>>36681767
Hindus don't like meat anon. I pulled the number out my ass as a joke but according to information from the web. 40% of India don't eat no meat.

I like how everyone ignored this study
>>36681757
But keep drinking cow tit juice, I'm sure GOMAD will make you big and strong :^)

>>36680906
Underrated

>>36681841
What are you saying?
That we should immediately kill all of those animals who require extra food or what?

Are you one of those people who go around pushing the "too many people are on the planet something needs to happen to kill off a lot of people then everything will be swell" faggots?

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>>36681736
I'm clearly having trouble explaining my point, and the more I try to do so now, the less coherent I seem to get. It's almost 4 AM where I am, so I'm fucking exhausted. If this thread is still up in a few hours, I'll try and explain things again, and hopefully in a better fashion, but right now my eyes are glazing over at the screen

>>36681867
No, I'm saying that we should stop BREEDING these animals so that we no longer have to feed them. Obviously the world won't go vegan overnight. Jesus m8, the cholesterol's really getting to you huh?

>>36681859
Meat-eating and milk-drinking retards get BTFO on a daily basis by science. Ees normal. Bunch of delusional fuckers. I'm glad they'll suffer before or soon after hitting 40.

>>36681882
You seem malnourished and easily agitated anon. Have a hamburger and calm yourself down. Nothing but insults all day. Talk like the civilized person you claim to be

>>36681894
>not even refuting the argument at this point
listen m8, apologies if I sound a bit sarcastic but I'm just tired of people not listening to logic and when presented with facts go "muh taste" or "muh nihilism." I agree petty insults lead nowhere, but no one here is interested in having an actual discussion.

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>people not understanding amino acids nor the amount of extra calories to complete them

>>36681882
I see.
That has less then fuck all to do with my post you stupid cunt.

My point is that it would only take a lot of grassland to grow animal sources of nutrients.
It would take uprooting all of that grassland and more water and environmentally destructive farming practices to grow vegetables that will almost equal the nutrients that said animal sources would provide.

The former is environmentally sound and infininitely renewable if the capitalist factory farming thing were taken off the table.
The latter would render massive chunks of the planet inhospitable to anything that walks flys or swims within a few generations no matter what.

The latter would create a potential doomsday scenario that no one would survive.

>>36681910
I'm not the guy you're shit talking bucko. Just chiming in like the Asshole I am. I don't need to refute anything

>>36681919

>grass-fed beef
>environmentally sound
>cows live twice as long because they take forever to grow and produce twice as much methane

>>36680424
>Broccoli is more tight-packed with proteins than beef, therefore all plants have more protein than meat!

Sweeping generalization tbqh

>>36681846

Not an argument

>>36680949
this
maybe more

>>36681949
We can use methane as a fuel source.
Also
>The only source of meat on the planet is the cow

Yeah, nah, you're fucking retarded. Vegetarians are fucking retarded.

>>36681917

Explain it to the vegans than instead of LARPing like a retard

>>36681919
>going vegan will destroy the planet
>actually believing this
Seeing that we already grow a shit ton of grains for animals already, if we utilized these grains for human consumption instead of animal consumption, we would be able to feed a fuckload of people. What is so hard to understand about this?

We don't need to uproot anything, the farms are already there, we just need to stop feeding animals with it and feed humans instead.

>>36681997

Why don't you just eat insects?

>>36681494
And we have evolves how much faster in the last hundred years compared to the other 99,990 years?

>>36681997
It's because that's fucking retarded and vegans know less about how human bodies work and how food production works period.

We CAN'T simply start force feeding people the garbage grains that are fed to animals in factory farming situations.
It's akin to genocide.

It would sicken and kill untold millions.
I'm not even getting into how malnutrition would become a life threatening problem in short order and how people would start eating complete and utter shit because they can't afford or get the needed foods to round out their diets.

I'm not even getting into the horrifying toll it would take on the environment.

>>36681781
Vegan faggot detected

>>36682005
insects are not vegan friend :^)

>>36681848
They don't but they're vegetarians not vegans... There's a difference

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>>36681029
>>36681091
Don't bother with him, apparently he thinks water is magically converted in to energy and the molecules are torn apart and the resulting atoms destroyed in the process.

Water goes in, water goes out. Any water that doesn't go out is later either consumed when the cow becomes a burger and is eaten, or returns to the earth when the unused parts decompose.

tl;dr Vegans are fucking retarded.

>>36681972
Not an argument

>>36682038
Ok m8 you really went off the deep end, see a doctor, your cholesterol levels are too high

First of all, we already have enough food to feed everybody in the world right now. If everyone in the world were to go vegan overnight, as it seems you're suggesting, we would already have enough food for everybody, plus more since we no longer would have to feed the animals. Obviously we wouldn't be growing shit-tier food and would be growing food suitable for human consumption.

>malnutrition
you can get everything you need except maybe b12 from a balanced vegan diet, and it's not even hard.

>can't afford veggies
in most of the world, meat is a luxury. Even if we ignore that, if everyone in the world were to go vegan overnight, as you seem to think, vegetables and fruits would be given the same subsidies that the meat industry is currently getting, making food cheaper for everyone. More demand= lower prices. Simple economics m8.

>environmental toll
Exactly what the fuck are you talking about? How would going vegan fuck up the environment? The animal agriculture industry is doing that already by being the leading contributor to climate change, we went over this a couple of posts ago m8.

>>36680777
>the good thing about these other sources is that they don't directly harm another living being.
>living
>broccoli
Pretty sure broccoli is a living being. How dare you eat it you shitlord. Claim to care about the environment but knowingly murder it. Fucking bigot.

>>36682047

Why not it's better for the environment

>>36680424

Do you have any fucking idea how much 100 calories of broccoli is?

>>36682060
So you're saying that the cow just gives back 2500 gallons of water per POUND of beef, right? That's literally what you're saying.

Please, enlighten me as to how the water comes back, all 2500 gallons of it per pound. If water in= water out, how are droughts even possible then? According to your logic, water is an unlimited resource and we can do whatever the fuck we want with it since it'll just magically come back.

tl;dr meat eaters are fucking retarded, enjoy your low test from the milk :^)

>>36682093
If everyone went vegan over night a surplus of methane producing animals would exist.
Methane is bad for the environment. There's are lot of these animals that produce it and I mean a lot anon.

>>36682093
1.We are not herbivores. We can not eat the same kinds of vegetables that animals eat and get all of the nutrients we need.

We would have to drastically change a lot of our food production to make this happen and this will have a horrible effect on the environment.

2.We have enough animals and plants for everyone to live on RIGHT NOW.
Killing off animals and forcing everyone to eat a handful of nutrient deficient vegetables and making chunks of land unlivable for long decades with irresponsible farming instead of ending factory farming and ending monsanto's attempt at taking over worldwide food production is stupid.

3.By the way, you're not talking about most of the world. You're talking about the parts of the world that you are in right now. And it is not a luxury. Most peoples on the fucking planet know how to and regularly and successfully hunt for their own meat.
That has no bearing on anything.

>>36682144
Except this hypothetical scenario is impossible friend, I just used his impossible scenario to show he was mentally deficient :^)
Ideally the world would slowly go vegan so that we would stop breeding these animals and they would only exist in much smaller numbers.

>>36682120
You still haven't told us where 2500 gallons of water vanishes to? Humans are 70% water right? Does that mean 70% of all liquids I drink never leave my body because somehow the previous 70% vanished into thin air?

You're pointing towards a one way street and buddy is pointing out its an endless cycle. The conversion of water to Cow isn't 100% .the cow doesn't weigh 28k pounds

>>36680479
>cups is a unit of measurement

>>36682157
1. We are not carnivores or omnivores, no other carnivore or omnivore can get atherosclerosis or heart disease because their arteries are built to handle the cholesterol and their intestinal tract is much shorter so that they don't have to keep the cholesterol in their bodies for very long. Every single other omni- and carnivore has night vision, we don't. We have enzymes that break down carbohydrates in our mouths, no other omni- or carnivore has this.
Still convinced we aren't herbivores?

2. Vegetables have all the nutrients you need you mongoloid, how many times do I have to say this?
You're assuming a shitload of things will happen if the world went vegan (irresponsible farming, unlivable chunks of land), what the fuck are you talking about? Try to focus on the argument, not baseless assumptions you're pulling out of your ass.

3. I specifically said to ignore the fact that meat is a luxury, but ok. If it's so easily accessible for everyone, why do poor people so seldom eat meat and instead eat beans and rice?

>>36682191

You get into debates online about this shit

Ahahaha

>>36682187
>united states of america

>>36680914
>eating broccoli will make me big as a dynosaur
Did she also tell you to do SS?

>>36682167
The water goes to the food needed to feed the cow and for the cow to drink, it doesn't disappear but it doesn't come back instantly either, you seem to have a wrong idea about the water cycle. The majority goes towards the massive amounts of food the cow needs to eat to grow, not all of it is just cow.

Droughts exist, you know, and the water doesn't just disappear either.

>>36682195
you shitpost on an icelandic basket-weaving online forum, your point is?

>>36682223
Which ups the ratio of pounds put into cow and pounds taken out. 28k pounds is off water alone.

Drought means little to nothing in the grand scheme of things because if the water isn't somewhere then its somewhere else.

>>36680453
Wtf

>>36680424

I don't want to eat 10lbs of broccoli to get my protein breh

>>36681448
97% of climate scientists agree that climate change is real. Holy fuck! do you even read?

>>36680424
that image must be a lie, because even tuna is 25% protein
how can red meat, which is mostly muscle, be only 6%? were they you eating lard instead of actual meat?

>>36680777

> one burger is the equivalent of two and a half months worth of showers?

nigga the burger shower water has already been used whether you order the big mac or the fucking salad.

you're not a precious snowflake where your choices will make a direct impact on the state of the environment

>>36680453
>only vegan for the environment
Nah. If you were basing your actions on environmental concerns you would be a) campaigning for cap-and-trade legislation and (as a vastly lesser stopgap) b) cutting down on high environmental impact foods. That is not the same as being vegan at all. You would be fine with milk and certain kinds of wild fish, and would be avoiding beef, lamb and lettuce, just as examples. You're either ignorant, begging the question, or outright lying.

>>36680424
Dont give a fuck. I want my MEAT burger with MEAT lettuce AKA BACON.

>>36680874
>>36681283
>>36681514
>>36682451

> implying cows don't produce methane which contribute to holes in the ozone layer, contributing to climate change

This is basic science. The same way some chemicals in products like fridges were phased out for doing the exact same thing when they were dumped. Some of us care more about coexisting with the environment we're dependent on for survival than simply laying waste to it for short-term economic gain for the wealthy elite.

I just don't give a fuck. I don't have kids and I don't give a flying fuck about the environment or how many of your precious showers I'm fucking wasting. I like meat. I will eat it every day while you masturbate to your stupid fucking cauliflower and eggplant steaks or whatever else you faggots eat.
>inb4 you'll die soon haha GOTCHU
I DONT GIVE A FUCK. Were all here for a relatively short amount of time so I'm going to eat whatever I want you stupid fucking cucumber deep throating cunt. Fuck you and your stupid fucking superior mentality.

>>36680480
>i don't get why they try and fucking convert everyone
because they don't want any animals to be killed

>>36680904
>he thinks essential nutrients are the only ones you need

Kek all this shitposting about muh climate change and muh kileng da animuls

I:m gonna eat my next meaty meal with extra gusto using these vegam tears as condiment.

Then I'm going to have a 20min long shower.

Because, tbqh familoa, I could not give 2 shits.

>>36681888
>Meat-eating and milk-drinking retards get BTFO on a daily basis by science.
you mean by the "science" you see reported on vegan websites.

>>36680453
>I couldn't give a fuck about animals, I'm only vegan for the environment
Muh nigga, I thought I was the only one.

>>36682191
>defining an animal's dietary habits by disease susceptibility or other tangential things
>not using the measure zoology uses - i.e. what they eat

>>36682984
>more tards begging questions
Look, I just went and did the calculations for kg of CO2 per 1000kJ of food based on the figures listed at http://www.greeneatz.com/foods-carbon-footprint.html. That is the correct measurement rather than their silly kg of CO2 per kg of food because you need a constant amount of energy intake.

You know what the funny thing is? The ONLY anomalously high CO2 foods in that list are beef and lamb. Everything else is fine. Pork, turkey, chicken and tuna are all comparable to most vegetables. Eggs, cheese and milk are all lower CO2 than potatoes and most vegetables. You can stop being vegan now.

And don't start claiming other environmental impacts (eg water usage) because those lists don't align with veganism either.

>>36681007
28g to get your protein need?

What the fuck, are you cutting and 3'1?

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>>36680424
>Broccoli for protein, not based quark.
Stupid ass vegans.

>>36681024
so what your actually talking about is density not weight they both weigh the same but there will be more broccoli because its less dense than a steak, chose your words better mate

>>36680424
Killing a broccoli is as as bad as killing an animal. Vegetable are sentient, just in a different way from us animal.

That's why I turned fruitarian, and I hope y'all vegan will redeem at some point.

>>36683140
>your actually talking
you are

>>36680424
100 cals of broccoli is like half a kilo or something stupid, who the fuck has the time to eat several kilos of broccoli a day?

>>36680647
It takes longer to process and convert to something your body can use.

>>36681498
the big thing that vegans always fail to mention besides the fact that they are retarded......Not everyone can sit at home jerking off and farting all day... I have tried to get my full day's caloric and protein requirements from vegetables... this obviously included lentils beans and peas... You just fart all fucking day.. there is no getting used to it because i eat a small amount of that shit all the time it never stops making you fart. it has too much fiber you just have to shit all the time. My body was not meant to eat fucking roughage all day .... and i was not meant to have to shit all the time. It is a diet for fucking stay at home neets that have nothing to do but bitch about their new found moral superiority..


http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v531/n7595/full/nature16990.html

>>36683186
And people with fart fetishes obviously

>>36683155
Cringe

Does a cow drink more than 2 gallons of water a day?

>>36680777
A wild elephant consumes much more water during the course of a life. Should we kill them all?

Water circulates. Sure, the rate at which it circulates limits the amount of freshwater/day a certain area will get, but there is zero reason to save water until it's actually scarce in the present place and the present moment. I live close to a large river, that river is running towards the ocean. The water flowing through it now is not going to be freshwater by tomorrow. Not using it is equivalent to many millions of people wasting water by running all their water taps 24/7.

It's wasteful to not use what you have. We have enough grain and water for both ourselves and the cows. What the hell would you do with all of it if there weren't any cows? Who would gain anything from the farmers having to abandon their fields when demand on barley suddenly plummets? No one is thirsty, and no one goes to sleep hungry due to high prices on grain. Not even in Africa, they get as much free grain and water as they want from us. The problem is the logistics of getting the food and water quickly enough to some remote area hit by sudden drought. In the US you just buy stuff from out of state if that happens, Africa can't because they don't have functioning infrastructure; they can't use what they have and they are poor as fuck because of it. No one wastes as much water and energy as Africa.

>>36680951
Missing my mom now :(

>>36683153
>killing baby plants
Lmao, that's like eating human fetuses. You people are despicable.

I personally only eat naturally fallen leaves and small rocks.

>>36683310
THOSE LEAVES COULD BE FERTILIZING MOTHER EARTH YOU SICK FUCKING BASTARD. THE ROCKS ARE SOMEONES CHILD HOW COULD YOU BE SO FUCKING HEARTLESS.

>>36680424
this is violence towards trees you bigot

>>36683107
Comrade, what happened to orthodox "cottage cheese" term? Fuck the new-wave hipstershit.
Also do you eat it raw? I add sour-cream and sometimes a bit of sugar.
PeKaface.jpeg

>>36683333
>Also do you eat it raw?
Usually with yogurt and fruits. Sometimes raw with a tea.

>>36683310
Shame on you, real fruitarians do not eat seeds. So no, it's not like eating fetuses. Maybe it's like eating the placenta of the fetuses.
Some fruitarians eat only fruits that have fallen from trees already, yes.

>>36683310
>small rocks.
>unironically eating mother earth's body

>>36683366
With each breath you are killing thousand of living beings.
Stop this GENOCIDE NOW!

>>36680453
......but aren't you inadvertently helping animals by caring for the environment?

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>>36680777
>they don't directly harm another living being.

FUCKING PLANTS ARE ALIVE TOO YOU BASTARRRRRRDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

>>36680438
it is true

>>36681302
>There is an obvious benefit to having phones
yes but not an obvious need.

You vegans should stop forcing people to do as you do. All these pieces of misinformation will ultimately lead to the premature deaths of the ones gullible enough to believe your propagandas. Not everyone can live off of plant life and stay as "healthy" as some of you claim to be. I bet that eventually, your body's lack of nutrients will take its toll on you and you will think "I wish I listened to all those anons talking sense and ate a god damn steak. Now, it's too la--" in your dying moments.

>>36681841
>he thinks animals and humans eat the same food

loving every laugh

>>36681467
>Using pleasure as a justification is a shitty justification because you can literally justify anything with "but it feels/tastes good," try to understand this, friend.

kek. vegan inadvertantly BTFOs homosexuals.

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Anyone else here that's not vegan, but loves broccoli / greens in general? I plan on eating 750gr of florets today, steam them mfs and put some thyme and pepper on those beautiful vegetables.

>pic related was my lunch, which had 450gr of florets in them, together with some asparagus, quinoa and chicken

can give you the recipe if wanted

I just wanted to post to say, I eat meat. I've always eaten meat. I'll continue to eat meat. I enjoy meat.

Going vegetarian can work, I'll have some meals where I don't eat meat at all. But going vegan? That's a mistake I will never make.

>>36683493

I love eating heaps of green leafy vegetables, fruits and meat everyday. Not eating all makes me feel like my day isn't complete.

I don't know the details, but my vegetarian coworker claims she eats all kinds of beans and stuff, but right now her doctor is making her eat meat because somethings wrong with her. Also of note is that she's overweight.

>>36683493
Congratulations, you eat like a normal, healthy human being.

Not a
>muh steak and bacon
meathead, nor a
>muh lentils and almond milk
tree-hugger.

>>36683493
would appreciate ingredients and recipe anon fampai

>>36681467
>Using pleasure as a justification is a shitty justification
Sensations we enjoy are one of the ways animals regulate their intake of nutrition. If something is tasty it is sometimes an adaptation to encourage you to eat it (sometimes it's an addictive response, though).

>>36680617
I bet that guy never thought about jerking off or fingering his gf (lel) when he got that tattoo.

yeah let me just eat a pound of broccoli plain for 13g of protein

are vegans retarded?

they are just proving the point that you need meat to get protein quickly

>these vegans who dobit "for the environment"
Just know that I'll be eating two 16oz steaks in your honor.

>>36683514
iron deficiency?

>>36683578
Godspeed, Anon.

Make sure you also buy only eggs from caged hens in order to further trigger the vegan tumblrinas.

>>36680473
>talking this much shit

If you don't know anything else than "hurrdurr meat has protein" then just stfu...

>>36683236
;_;

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>>36683554

Aight so for pic related I did the following:
>pop chicken breast (I used 150gr) in the oven for about 35 mins (seasoned with lemon juice, rosemary and pepper)
>450gr of broccoli florets, steamed on high for about 13 mins (like mine soft)
>200gr of green asparagus, also steamed
>While you're steaming the veggies in the microwave, bring your quinoa (I used 80gr) to a boil, recude heat to very low and let it simmer with a lid on for 15 mins.

Once everything is done, I mix all of the above and spray some olive oil and season with pepper, basil, thyme, marjory, oregano and sea salt to my liking.

Going to include macros for the above as well:
>78g carbs
>18g fat
>66g protein
>780 kcals

>>36680424

This doesn't take into account that broccoli (like all vegetables except Soy) is an incomplete protein. It doesn't have enough necessary amino acid chains to build muscle. You would have to eat about 2.3 kg or 18 cups of Broccoli just to reach your daily requirement of complete proteins.

>>36680424
have fun eating 1kg of broccoli vs 100g of beef

>>36683591
I know that meat has more protein than broccoli you fucking window licker.

>>36680855
you don't understand weight and should stop talking.

>>36680949
>beef
>50kcal/100g

Nigga wtf are you talking about. Do you even calorie counting?

YOU NEED FUCKING 500g of (cooked) broccoli in order to get 100 cal out of them. And for that you get only ~15g of protein in total.
In comparison 500g of beef give you 100g of protein and won't make you catabolic.

You need to eat about 3.5 kg of brocolli in order to get the same amount like 500g of beef. Nobody can fucking eat that amount of broccoli, fucking vegan delusion.

Vegan bodybuilders eat shitloads of Soya. Soy milk, soja steaks, soya soya soya & peas & nuts.

>>36680424
Beef protein bio-availability is is huge compared to broccoli protein.

>>36683953

See here>>36681466

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>>36680453

>>36682187
...It is? It measures volume.

>>36683623
Saved, thanks.

I'm not inherently opposed to violence

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>>36680424
It makes me want to murder every vegan cocksucker who decided to shit up /fit/ with their cult

>>36680424
I raise my own cattle and give zero fucks.

>>36680424
One little piece of meat: 100 calories
A thousand broccoli: 100 calories.

>brainlets don't realize just how important a diet high in fish is for not being a complete dick for brains

know how many pieces of broccoli = 100 calories?
me neither but I bet it's a fuck ton

know how much beef = 100 calories?
who the fuck cares, eat both

>>36684796
Post cows pls

>>36683333
>thinking Cottage Cheese and Quark are the same thing
kek

>>36680424
why not both? fucking retardoos

>>36681514
I eat meat and don't give a shit about the environment, but there's legitimately no point in making propaganda for climate change. You fell for the oil lobbies propaganda desu. They actually have plenty of reasons to make you doubt climate change. I don't see what's the point in even doubting climate change unless you work for the oil industry.

Lean beef has 20 g protein per 100 calories. This is also about 85 grams of beef.

Broccoli is 8.4 g protein per 100 calories. This is also about 300 grams of broccoli.

So to get the same 20 g of protein from broccoli as you would in the 3 ounces of lean beef, you would have to eat 25 ounces of broccoli, or over a fucking pound and a half. And it would be about 2.4 times more caloric.

I have no idea where they got the notion that beef is 6.4 g protons per 100 calories. Probably from the fattiest ground beef they could find, I guess.

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>>36684796
>>36684862
Yes, post cows

>>36681223
>too many goddamn people in this world.
Too many blacks and indians
There isn't enough whites desu

>the current year of our lord 2015 + 1
>not being vegan

1. significantly reduces your risk of heart disease/cancer
2. able to get all of your nutrients from a plant based diet excluding B12 which you'll have to take supplements for
3. opposes the factory farming industry which poisons the meat you consume

Sources:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26987270
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27040312

>>36682187
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_(unit)

Nigga u dumb

>>36683155
Topkek

Ya blew it here lad. You were doing well against the vegetable fucker until you resorted to that.

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Even if you're not veggie/vegan you got to stop eating red meat right now it's fucking cancer.

It's not even accurate, look up the nutritional information for yourself.
Beef also has a more complete amino acid chain and eating 100 calories of beef takes 30 seconds compared to 10 minutes to take in that much veggies

>>36680868
People who try to make something seem equal that really isn't

40g of beef (basically 2 bites) vs 300g of raw broccoli (prolly close to a whole head). No wonder that faggot negro vegan is turning green

>>36681024
Meat weighs the same as broccoli you fucking retard.

What you mean is density, meat is denser because it's actual tissue and broccoli isn't. If you'd grind 500g broccoli down and mash it into shape it would be the same density as 500g of meat

>>36681132
Dude ur literally growing food for animals instead of humans. It's 10* less land efficient than just growing plants for humans. It's a fact.

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>>36680479
>mfw i eat 6 cups of broccoli a day

>>36685210
Yes. Replace one factory farmed food source with another factory farmed food source that will require more land, more destructive farming methods and more poisonous fertilizers.

We are already growing enough corn and grain to feed every single fucking person in america. We are even letting that shit rot on the grounds there's so much.
We also have more then enough land and wild animals to feed everyone some amount of meat as well.

So trying to make everyone go full vegan is not going to help the environment at all. The only thing that will help is the destruction of the food monopolies and factory farming industry as it is.

Do you even understand how we would have to further change the environment to grow the crops that are needed for nutritionally balanced eating?

If you were advocating growing your own foods, foraging, hunting, talking about how easy and healthy it is and making people aware of the problems with our food sources as well?
You people would have something. It would strangle the food industry and people would become far more aware of the environment because they'd be living more closely with it.

But you aren't. This entire thing seems like they are just trying to push a stupid narrative to get people to eat cow feed.

>>36683434
PLANT RIGHTS WHEN?

>>36685549
Are you an actual retard

>>36681024
>not putting all that broccoli in a blender and then injecting it into your veins for max gains

>>36680479
>5 cups of broccoli for 11.1 grams of protein
>eating 60+ cups of broccoli everyday to get enough protein
Nope

>>36680424
>per 100 calories

Broccoli is a low calorie food, steak is a high calorie food.

100 calories of steak = 50 grams of steak (for most cuts, can be more or less depending on fat levels, but this is average)
100 calories of broccoli = 296 grams of broccoli

Broccoli may have roughly twice the protein per 100 calories, but to consume 100 calories you have to eat almost six times more broccoli than steak.

If you eat 100 grams of steak ans 100 grams of broccoli, you're getting far more protein from the steak.

My defense is that people need to be more critical in general, but especially when statistics are involved.


For the record, I have nothing against people wanting to be vegan or vegetarian. I do however get annoyed at people trying to push their beliefs on me, especially when they're being manipulative about it.

>>36686534

Why don't you just eat insects then faggot? Then you can really save the environment. Feed them some rotting food in a small crate and you'll have thousands of little pieces of protein in no time. They do it in Thailand.

So instead of trying to FORCE other people to not have meat why don't you stop being such a cunt and eat insects yourself?

>>36685104

They don't care about the birth rates of retarded 80 IQ brown people. They only care about making life shittier for whites.

>>36680453
And...

>>36686815
Also, I forgot to mention that the proteins found in broccoli are incomplete. They could have been slightly less manipulative by using a plant with complete proteins, like cauliflower or potatoes. But then again cauliflower and potato each only have around 2 grams of protein per 100 grams of food.

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>>36683071
So 11 cups of broccoli is 66grams of carbs and 28 grams of protein.

There are alot better foods to fill my macros.

>>36686841
What are some good arguments against veganism really? I can't think of anything that isn't taste preference or convenience

>>36687129

You have to consume way more and a greater variety to make sure you're getting all your vitamins and nutrients.

Much of what they advocate you consumer for protein and aminos is shit like soy which we know is terrible for males.

It's all part of the feminization of society and creating a dumbed down, docile population for the ruling class to control and manipulate.

>>36687189
>You have to consume way more and a greater variety to make sure you're getting all your vitamins and nutrients.

>Much of what they advocate you consumer for protein and aminos is shit like soy which we know is terrible for males.

But this is just convenience, right? I mean, people on this board literally weigh their food, so making a slightly different meal plan shouldn't really be that big a problem.

>>36687129
our brains grew like motherfuckers when we first started eating meat. so we have huge brains thanks to meat. we also have more meat available thank kings in the past could have dreamed of so it is kind of stupid not to take advantage of our place in history.

or just be a whiny faggot vegan who is now gender fluid to fit in with the other cool kids.

>>36687254

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/magazine/09starch.html

>>36680424
Yeah but beef has creatine

>>36687254
Why does this matter though? If some kind of superfood was invented now, giving both mad muscles gainz and brain gainz, i'd give meat up right on the spot no matter how much meat they ate 1000's of years ago

>>36687129
Vegetarians tend to have emotional problems and later have neurological problems. And some who are purely vegan have a higher risk for heart trouble.

There are no 100% positives for the vegan lifestyle.

>>36687297
But going vegetarian probably won't give me emotional problems, will it? Like smokers in average has a shorter education than non-smokes, but if i start smoking my education won't suddenly decrease.

And do you have a source for the heart trouble? I can't really think of anything that should give heart trouble on a well-planned vegan diet. I mean, you're avoiding stuff like mercury in fish and saturated fat

>>36680424
>per hundred calories
Broccoli has no fucking calories though I'd have to eat a bucket of the stuff to match my current protein intake

>>36681528
will you stop saying friend. for fucks sake. you sound like some bullshit off brand comic ripoff version of the joker. i promise you if you know anyone irl they hate it too.

good luck getting the world to not eat meat. hopefully you will save the planet singlehandedly. protip: we are already fucked, nothing to be done about it. just ride it out until the end in style.

i'm not your friend.

>>36687129
>can't think of anything
Probably because you're trolling. Firstly, the burden of proof is on the vegan contingent to put forwards reasons of veganism as the alleged better diet. Beyond that...

Moral veganism, whether deontological or utilitarian, is anti-intellectual and anti-human. This is because it results in valuing simple animals as more important than people due to the sheer numbers involved. The deontological variant being the worse option.

Environmental veganism is bullshit as the elimination of high carbon footprint or high water footprint foods does not results in veganism. It doesn't even result in vegetarianism. Chicken, fish, milk, cheese, etc, are fine by both measures. Convincing people to change their diet is a poor solution to the problem anyway, and cap-and-trade legislation would be vastly superior.

Being vegan due to concerns about food production capacity or efficiency is bullshit because there exists considerable land that is not suitable for crops, but is suitable for pasture. Also, it's well known that food production is not so much as problem as food *distribution*.

On a personal level, if you're poor and want to be /fit/, a vegan diet is exceedingly unlikely to be the cheapest high protein option. If you're bulking you can pull it off if you can handle a really monotonous lentil/bean diet, but cutting? Hell no.

Then, perhaps the most minor argument against, is nutrition. It is tricky to construct a vegan diet that is 100% nutritionally sound. Ensuring you are getting adequate nutrients via dietary planning and supplementation (no, B12 is not the only issue) requires time and effort that some people do not have. Studies that show vegan/vegetarian diets as better tend to be extremely flawed and fail to control for numerous confounding factors.

There are probably other sound arguments I'm forgetting, but that should be enough for the moment.

>>36680424
Any of these arguments can be dumped.

Kale is the only green that has a full amino acid chain. While you need meat for vitamin b.

>>36687525

>It is tricky to construct a vegan diet that is 100% nutritionally sound. Ensuring you are getting adequate nutrients via dietary planning and supplementation (no, B12 is not the only issue) requires time and effort that some people do not have.

Lurker jumping in to say that this is true for any kind of diet. You don't just eat whatever you want and get all the nutrients and avoid all the harmful things. You have to know what you're eating. Regardless,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/

>The vegan diet received the highest index values and the omnivorous the lowest for HEI-2010 and MDS. Typical aspects of a vegan diet (high fruit and vegetable intake, low sodium intake, and low intake of saturated fat) contributed substantially to the total score, independent of the indexing system used. The score for the more prudent diets (vegetarians, semi-vegetarians and pesco-vegetarians) differed as a function of the used indexing system but they were mostly better in terms of nutrient quality than the omnivores.
>The use of indexing systems, estimating the overall diet quality based on different aspects of healthful dietary models (be it the US Dietary Guidelines for Americans or the compliance to the Mediterranean Diet) indicated consistently the vegan diet as the most healthy one.

So why don't you say omnivorous diets are tricky and hard to do well?

>>36687525
>Moral veganism, whether deontological or utilitarian, is anti-intellectual and anti-human. This is because it results in valuing simple animals as more important than people due to the sheer numbers involved. The deontological variant being the worse option.

How is it anti-human? I value humans lives over animal lives, but i still seek to avoid animal suffering. I can do this by abstaining from animal products, but this doesn't not have negative consequences for humans.
>Environmental veganism is bullshit as the elimination of high carbon footprint or high water footprint foods does not results in veganism. It doesn't even result in vegetarianism. Chicken, fish, milk, cheese, etc, are fine by both measures. Convincing people to change their diet is a poor solution to the problem anyway, and cap-and-trade legislation would be vastly superior.

This is just plain wrong.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/03/16/1523119113.full
Which also says that this will lower deaths, supporting a utilltarian view.

>>36686815
they weight the same you fuckwit.

100 pounds of pillows = 100 pounds of bowling balls.

meat has crippled your brain which probably wasn't big to begin with

>>36680453
That's next level vegan. Veganism is an elitist thing. The whole point of it is to one up vegetarians. You're one uping vegans themselves!

>>36687711
Bait? Please be bait.

>>36687745
vegan plebs.

i only drink synthetic shakes causing no harm to any living thing. 2 tablespoons of water per shake to minimize usage. 100 percent RDA everything.

start living in the future when you poorfags can afford it.

>>36687630
>high fruit, or in other words high sugar
>le saturated fat is bad meme
Nice flawed measure they have there.

>why don't you say omnivorous diets are tricky and hard to do as well?
Because there are far more options involved, so figuring out a diet that covers everything you need is a lot easier.

>>36687695
>I value human lives over animal lives, but I still seek to avoid animal suffering
You haven't considered the problem of wild animal suffering. The numbers involved mean that you cannot consistently advocate minimising life loss (deontological) or minimising suffering (utilitarian) and not be anti-human.

>http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/03/16/1523119113.full
A fine example of begging the question. They are skipping straight to advocating eliminating animal agriculture without stopping to measure specific products for their impact on climate change. If they had done so, they would have found that the problem is ruminants, or more specifically beef and lamb. Things like chicken, cheese, milk, fish and arguably pork are on par with potatoes, broccoli, and other vegetables when considered on a kg-CO2-emitted-per-1000kJ-food-produced basis.

>>36687773
hardly. if you noticed I put an end to the argument.

/win

>>36687879
>You haven't considered the problem of wild animal suffering. The numbers involved mean that you cannot consistently advocate minimising life loss (deontological) or minimising suffering (utilitarian) and not be anti-human.

Yes i have. Do you even know how many animals there is in agriculture and how much space they use? Wild animals are pretty much neglectable compared to this, which support an utilitarian view if you accept that it is favorable to avoid animal suffering.
>A fine example of begging the ...

So as a minimum, we should eliminate beef and lamb production, only considering these factors. For the other stuff, these aren't the only factors. If you take this into consideration AND animal suffering, then you could argue for a total elimination of animal agriculture

>>36687879

>>high fruit, or in other words high sugar
>>le saturated fat is bad meme
>Nice flawed measure they have there.

Okay, so you're a retard.

>>36687879

>Things like chicken, cheese, milk, fish and arguably pork are on par with potatoes, broccoli, and other vegetables when considered on a kg-CO2-emitted-per-1000kJ-food-produced basis.

Remember to cite your sources for the person replying to you.

>>36688116
>Yes i have. Do you even know how many animals there is in agriculture and how much space they use? Wild animals are pretty much neglectable compared to this.
No, you really haven't.
http://reducing-suffering.org/how-many-wild-animals-are-there/
Besides, you're actually agreeing with me now. If you're trying to minimise suffering then the inescapable conclusion is that creatures with lots of offspring (simple animals) are worth much more consideration than creatures with few offspring (humans). I personally give zero fucks about animal suffering in general and this conclusion is a major reason why.

>So as a minimum, we should eliminate beef and lamb production, only considering these factors.
No, we should place limits on the allowed GHG emission levels and pass the true cost of beef/lamb production on to the customer. That's not the same thing. Likely outcome is that beef/lamb becomes a more limited luxury product until they get artificial meat happening.

>>36688317
>Besides, you're actually agreeing with me now. If you're trying to minimise suffering then the inescapable conclusion is that creatures with lots of offspring (simple animals) are worth much more consideration than creatures with few offspring (humans)

But by being vegan i reduce suffering for simple animals and keep the suffering for humans the same, which is a plus overall.

And if you believe humans are "worth" more than animals (which i also do) you can also believe that some animals are "worth" more than other. I think the suffering for a higher conscience animal (cow, pig) is worse than lower conscience animals (mites).
>I personally give zero fucks about animal suffering in general
I don't believe this and it's really just a "Nothing matters, so i win this argument"-argument. If you seroiusly believe this, then you would have nothing against kicking a dog, or stomping a kitten. And yes i know were suppose to be all edgy here, but i know you don't like these things.
>No, we should place limits on the allowed GHG emission levels and pass the true cost of beef/lamb production on to the customer. That's not the same thing. Likely outcome is that beef/lamb becomes a more limited luxury product until they get artificial meat happening.

I advocate for the same things, though i just want to go beyond that. Also, plant-based artificial "meat" are available now, waiting for "real" artificial meat is just a way of not taking responsibility. But ofcourse, i'm all for it, since it reduces animal suffering.

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>>36688275
As seen at >>36683059 I took the numbers at http://www.greeneatz.com/foods-carbon-footprint.html and used http://www.calorieking.com.au/ to convert to the more appropriate measurement. Mince was used as a consistent meat product, although I'm fully aware that a more complete analysis would require considering the complete animal. There were 3 outliers: beef and lamb being exceedingly high, and lentils being exceedingly low. I expect the latter has a fair bit to do with how vegetarian/vegan diets are slightly but not excessively lower GHG footprint than no-beef-or-lamb diets.

>>36688447
>And if you believe humans are "worth" more than animals (which i also do) you can also believe that some animals are "worth" more than other. I think the suffering for a higher conscience animal (cow, pig) is worse than lower conscience animals (mites).
This is what makes the utilitarian view better than the deontological one, but the number of animals still overwhelms the number of humans for any reasonable scaling factor.

>If you seroiusly believe this, then you would have nothing against kicking a dog, or stomping a kitten.
Morally speaking? I don't. I find the dog kicking to be potentially questionable because of the uncertain state of cognitive science and how dogs are tool users. Otherwise, it's all amoral considerations (I like cats 'cause they're cute) and what such actions imply about the person doing them.

>>36688452
So yes, a vegan diet is better. 25% is not "sligthy lower".
>>36688522
And no matter what scaling factor you chose, veganism avoids more suffering. This may be small on this abitraty scale, but if you accept the notion the lesser suffering is a goal, then you agree with veganism.
>>36688522
Considering that i don't miss anything from when i wasn't vegan, the morally superior choice is to seek to cause less animal suffering because of the uncertainty.

>>36688793
You vegans might actually be worse than muslims.

>>36688793
>25% is not "slightly lower"
When considered against all the other ways of GHG reduction? That 21% difference between example diets really is insignificant. The only way sensible efforts to reduce GHG would result in veganism is if scientists have majorly overestimated the levels we can get away with, and even then several fruits and vegetables would go before eggs, milk and cheese. You're chasing after an extreme and mismatched optimisation to suit your preselected goal there.

>if you accept the notion the lesser suffering is a goal
I do not. I reject that goal due to its logical conclusion being absurdity. I think therefore I am, and so reason is infinitely more important than emotion. Morally right actions are those that encourage the continued existence and improvement of well run intelligence-valuing civilizations made up of sapient agents who have the agency to make meaningful choices about their existence. Some reduction of suffering is a side effect of that, but not all, and it's not part of the goal.

>>36688857
Veganism, SJWism, religion, it's all similar mind destroying bullshit.