/fit/ memes vs. building muscles

True bro that shit is silly afuck
strength training has its place in bodybuilding
desu all that low rep bullshit is an excuse to be a fat ass while feeling good about lift numbers
i do however finish my compounds with a low rep set,shit feels good

People who know how to train and make progress know that you can combine both. Doing weeks with higher reps followed by weeks with max rep workouts. I build mass and muscles in the time where I have no competitions. When the time of competitions start I switch my workouts to build strengh.

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SS Fags will defend there meme.

>>36020023
Aren't you supposed to start with an SS type routine for like a month or two if youre a complete noon, then just move to bro split?

>>36020269

No, you are supposed to make gains, that's all you need to worry about so why the fuck would you waste 6 month of your life while looking like garbage after? Why not do it right from the beginning?

This board and theire strength routines are literal cancer

>>36020168
It's almost like someone figured out periodization of training 50 fucking years ago.

>>36020269
no give your joints and sinews some time to get used to heavy weights. Avoiding an injury is more important then lifting heavy.

You're not gonna make it in 6 months anyway, but by all means be one of those guys who 'goes hard in the gym til their arms drop off' and does 7 different dumbell exercises on their 'shoulder day' yet somehow looks small as fuck after 3 years lifting with 'clean macros' meanwhile actual strong and muscular lifters do heavy bench and ohp + accessories and are jacked as hell. If your end goal is to actually look big and strong, you'll need to actually be strong to accomplish it.

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>>36020023
>most people on /fit/ believe in 5x5, SS or powerlifting
Funny, I've never seen a huge dude at the gym benching 90 lbs, or squatting 135 lbs.

It's almost like you need to get strong and athletic before you can "build" your body.

"Bodybuilding" before you can do basic movements is like polishing a turd. It will get shinier, but it's still a turd.

Meme on, weakshits.

>>36020337
literal mom science right here,
but no just keep doing your 6 day split with cardio every other day and see how strong you get after a year after someone on these "fat powerlifter" routines

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>>36020023

>>36020337
That's why you start light on the routine
Why the fuck would you need to do a routine to prepare you for a beginner routine? Dipshit

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>>36020420
>Why the fuck would you need to do a routine to prepare you for a beginner routine?

Because most lifters on this anime forum have lived worthless, sedentary lives with no athletic background.

>>36020369
Bullshit. No one said that you need to do only high reps to get big. Of course even bodybuilders do workouts with heavy weights. You didnt get the point of this thread.

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>>36020378
I do olympic weightlifting for now 11 years and I start at competitions in the whole EU, but thanks for your opinion.

>>36020463
>You didnt get the point of this thread.
See:
>If you do only squads, bench, OHP and deads for fucking 6 months you will not gonna make it.

I respectfully disagree with the OP's statement.

A bro-split aimed purely at hypertrophy got me about 10-15 lbs of newbie muscle. Lifting heavy and not wasting my time in the gym being a pouf got me the next 20-30 lbs.

Most non-athletic guys go to the gym to "bodybuild" because they are pussies.

Chinese weightlifters use bodybuilding for hypertrophy, yes, but their strength comes from their weightlifting regiments where most of their sets do not exceed 3 reps (called a 'triple' in weightlifting).

5x5 is actually a lot of volume.

>>36020369
>>It's almost like you need to get strong and athletic before you can "build" your body.
And why is that? Most people do those two simultaneously no matter they goal.

>>36020544
>And why is that?
Because if you can't perform basic hinging, pressing, and pulling with proper motor patterns, then you'll never put up enough weight to grow.

>>36020023
5x5 is more volume than 3x8 and is easier to progress with. Why would 3x8 be better?

The truth is SS on a slow, clean bulk will get you /fit/, by normie standards. If you eat like a pig to increase your lifts like everyone on here suggests with "eat more" when people complain about stalling, then you'll end up looking shit.

Keep an eye on yourself in the mirror and do SS.

I'm 5'8" and 68kgs and practically a skele by fits standards but my family thinks I'm ripped because I have a six pack, due to SS and eating clean.

>>36020496
Nice e-statting, but back to the point. Tell me, what percentage of /fit/ is at your level and should train with the volume and intensity of a competitive olympic weightlifter?

>>36020557
>Why would 3x8 be better?
It goes quicker so you're in the gym for less time. You also use less weight, so it's somewhat easier. Slightly more metabolic stress.

That being said, 5x5 is NOT specifically a strength protocol. Bodybuilders have been using 5x5 since well before these bullshit memes.

>>36020553
>Because if you can't perform basic hinging, pressing, and pulling with proper motor patterns, then you'll never put up enough weight to grow.
You didn't answer the question. Why can't you build mass and strength at the same time, or focus on mass before strength? Why would that make it harder to learn the movement?

>>36020400
>greg cuckols

>Beginners think that anything big can happen for their body in 3-6months

>Beginners think that 3x5 / 5x5 is not enough volume

This is why i only read OWG and PLG these days

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I honestly will never understand why retarded trolls will make shitty threads like this. All it does it confuse and fuck up newbies. People somehow get a kick out of making threads like this?

a 5x5 program like Stronglifts with a few added accessories is the best program you can possibly do if you're new to weightlifting. It'll get you strong as fuark or at least squatting 2pl8, 3pl8 dl, and 1.5pl8 bench AT LEAST

then from there you can graduate to a different program or work on building hypertrophy. Don't waste your noob gains.

>>36020618
>You didn't answer the question.
You asked a retarded question.

Which will build more mass/strength:
>a month of 5x5 compounds
OR
>a week of high rep dumbbell work

If you don't know the answer, then you better start trying harder.

>>36020023
Why does there have to be either/or? I do daily undulating periodization.

>>36020586
I dont want to make people train on my volume. I just want to point out that you cant just copy-pasta this /fit/-philosophy and then complain about small results. As weightlifter I love the core exercises (they are bread and butter for me) but people here give away a lot of potential if they avoid isolated exercises at all costs.

>>36020649
>if you're new to __weightlifting__

Plz

>>36020610
I know it's not specifically a strength protocol, but you will get stronger doing 5x5 vs 3x8 because you're using heavier weights.

>>36020619
Cuckolds didn't do those studies, he just made the picture.

>>36020685
>you will get stronger doing 5x5 vs 3x8 because you're using heavier weights.
And also because there are more sets.

More sets contributes largely to strength and skill at a movement more so than reps alone.

>>36020649
I think its because people see athletes at very high levels do very high volume, specific routines and then think that to be as successful as them, they have to emulate them. And when they come here and see a 3 day/ week strength routine that looks like the complete opposite of what Ronnie Coleman and Rich Piana do they end up assuming everyone here is just a fat powerlifter on roids that only lifts to boost his ego.

Looks like this is the right thread to ask this: I've been lifting for 2 years, did SS+accessories for 10 months and got very good noob strength gains, then I did texas method for 6 months, but the volume day killed me and I couldn't go on, so I did a generic strength split. Now I look like I lift but nothing impressive, but the worst thing is Its been months since I i gained strength or size (started skinnyfat). I'm around 1/2/3/4 at 5'7 but can't progress. Is it because of my routine? It's getting fucking frustrating to see curlbro snigger than me all the time. Pls help.

>>36020649


except all that does is train your CNS and prepare you for a real routine. realistically ramping up to a heavy set of a main exercise followed by 3 squeezing, slow, controlled exercises is the best of both

The only I ever take away from these thread is that it's always inconclusive.

It's never both sides agreeing on one way to go and everything's settled to become one thread to end all advice threads for a noob looking to not fuck up and waste a year on bullshit.

>>36020651
Ok so you're just gonna change my question to avoid admitting you don't know. Got it.

If someone where to do a program that focuses on multijoint lifts for slightly higher reps. and finishes of with a lot of isolations, they would grow more then if they did a low volume program.

>>36020711
People forget that these bodybuilders who can do like +200kg squat sets easily, can not progress as fast anymore by increasing weights, and at that point that increase in weight will not add size as much as getting your squat set from 100kg to 200kg.

They just have to do things differently, because they're advanced af.

>>36020023
The best program a natty lifter can do is a strength oriented routine with accessories to target your weaknesses. As a natty, if you're not getting stronger, you're not getting bigger.

>>36020738
>then if they did a low volume program.
Put them on equal volume, and the higher weight/and set group still gets bigger.

If you stay with SS and low rep only you will stay small and look weird. 5x5 is good but only if you use it to boost your strengh for 8-10 weeks and then switch back to a 4-5 day split with more weights.

>>36020766
>As a natty, if you're not getting stronger, you're not getting bigger
Amen to that.

>>36020782
>Put them on equal volume, and the higher weight/and set group still gets bigger.
Of course. But the point of doing lighter weights is to allow for higher volume(or in some cases serve as a deload session but that isn't the case here).

>>36020369
How about learning the basic movements while you start bodybuilding?
Or do you need a period of strenghttraining to learn how to use dumbells and the cable machines too?

I used to do SS until I saw some nigger listening to nightcore and benching 275lbs 5x5 and STILL looked dyel as fuck.

POWERLIFTING NEVER AGAIN

>>36020839
SS isn't a powerlifting routine. It's actually pretty bad for powerlifting because there's too much focus on OHP.

>>36020839
that's what strenght does

you don't like liek you lift

>>36020557
Because you don't quit after 5 reps, you do 8 reps which is more taxing and thus provides more gains.
Remember that you quit after 5 reps t take a break which'll cool you off.
Might as well extend the rep range to get the most out of it then.
Besides, some of us actually do 3x12, 4x8 or 4x12.
3x6 is the bare minimum for a bodybuilder rep, with 3x8 being a close 2nd

>>36020817
>But the point of doing lighter weights is to allow for higher volume
Keep telling yourself whatever allows you to take it easy and "feel the squeeze", lol.

>>36020818
>do you need a period of strenghttraining to learn how to use dumbells and the cable machines too?
Maybe. Depends on how completely unathletic and kinesthetically unaware you are.

>>36020868
How has your first month at the gym been?

>>36020839
>SS
>Powerlifting
Kek

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>>36020868

>>36020868
5x5 allows you to use more weight than 3x8. I use 80% on my 1rm when I do 5x5 and 70% when I do 3x8. Point is I do BOTH.

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>>36020724
>>36020023
>>36020803

>>36020904
And more weight=more volume.

>>36020879
>Maybe. Depends on how completely unathletic and kinesthetically unaware you are.

You only have to learn how to use the equipment once, it worked for me so it will work for others.


>How has your first month at the gym been?

I can't remember it's quite a while back.
These gains are loyal though.

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>>36020649
>Stronglifts? Sounds like a enerydrink for small faggots

Everyone's got different goals, but if you're training for strength, a decent strength-focused routine will help you get the most out of your current muscle mass (and build up some new mass, because strength and size do not have a one-or-the-other relationship). Then you tend to plateau, so transitioning to a bodybuilding-oriented routine for 8-12 weeks can set you up with a new baseline of muscle mass, so that returning to a strength routine can net more results. It's a tried-and-true method practiced by accomplished lifters for years.

The Chinese and Russians bodybuild as part of their program, the Bulgarians often did foundational bodybuilding prior to starting their brutal regimen, many of the early greats in powerlifting were bodybuilders (Pat Casey was a bodybuilder who became the first man to bench over 500lbs in competition, and Arnold was an accomplished lifter in his younger years), and German weightlifters did volume-heavy bodybuilding routines in the offseason to add more functional mass. Phil Grippaldi, Vasily Alexeyev, David Rigert, all accomplished lifters, and all did bodybuilding as part of their regimens.

"Bodybuilding" in this context should be understood as lifting with the intention of adding muscle mass, and not necessarily the modern mass-monster routines.

>>36020803
>4-5 day split
>as a natty
kek

>>36020879
>Keep telling yourself whatever allows you to take it easy and "feel the squeeze", lol.
Someone who advocates low volume "strength" programs targeted towards lazy keyboard lifters are hardly in a position to call anyone else lazy kek.

>>36020023
You're not going to gain size without being strong enough to lift heavy.

You get strong enough to lift heavy by using a strength training program with progressive overload.

Basic and boring is the very best method of building raw strength. It's the user's responsibility to program in isolation that doesn't interfere with their big lifts. All the old school lifters still lifted heavy as fuck as their primary training.

>>36020930
best example for high rep and small weight that builds tons of mass is german volume training.

TRAINING FOR STRENGTH VS. TRAINING FOR SIZE

It doesn't matter how many reps you do in a set, you're always training for strength. Whether you increase your 3RM from 100 kgs to 120 kgs or your 12RM from 75 kgs to 95 kgs, you've still gotten stronger. And this should always be your focus.
It also doesn't matter whether you do e.g. 4 reps in a set or 10 reps in a set. Both of these sets would elicit a hypertrophy response.

So what's the difference between high rep and low rep work?

The fewer reps you do per set, the heavier weights you'll be handling, which means that you become good at doing just that; handling heavier weights. That's the main advantage of performing low reps - you become skilled at displaying strength using near maximal or even maximal weights. If you're used to training with very low reps, your real 1RM is going to higher than it would be if you usually trained with only high reps and thus lighter weights.

Conversely, the higher reps you do, the better you become at performing a higher number of reps with any given lighter weight.

So if you compete in powerlifting, naturally you must include some amount of low rep work in your training in order to become good at your sport. If you compete in e.g. CrossFit it'd probably be a good idea to practice high rep work as well.

>>36020904
More weight doesn't equall more muscle mass.
More reps equall more muscle mass.
Don't assume that the 5lbs that you bench less while doing 3x8 makes you miss out on any muscle gains.

Why does it matter that you do both? Are you trying to impres me or something?
I play Ass Creed Black Flag bitch, don't fuck with me

>>36020969
Doesn't allow you to use heavy enough weights. Lacks mechanical tension.

>>36020979
There's an additional benefit to using a lighter weight and doing more reps however. Because using a light weight doesn't put nearly as much strain on your central nervous system and your joints, using a light weight makes it possible to perform a much larger total amount of work (more sets). This is called volume. Training with a large amount of volume is the primary cause of hypertrophy i.e. making your muscles bigger. So if your main concern is growing bigger, then most of your training should be comprised of higher reps using a lighter weight. The weight can't be too light though, because if it is, it's simply not going to be sufficiently heavy to provide an effective stimulus. As a rule of thumb, don't go lighter than 60% of your 1RM. For most people that's a weight you can do around 12 reps with - hence the general recommendation of 8-12 reps for hypertrophy training.

>>36020942
>Someone who advocates low volume
You keep saying that, lol.

Ever run Smolov? Ever put up 50,000 lbs of squatting in a week? Fuck off, breh.

>>36020023
Dorian Yates says failure at 4-6 reps for size....

But what does he know about bodybuilding?? Certainly not as much as you, op

>>36021044
>But what does he know about bodybuilding?
He knows his chemistry.

>>36021015
So your response to me saying that doing a high volume program is to ask "yeah, but have you ever tried this even higher volume program"? Thanks for proving my point.

>>36021070
Literally too stupid to talk to.

>>36020969
I didn't mention it explicitly in my post, but kind of in passing with what German weightlifters did in the offseason. I agree, I'm currently running a 12-week modified version of GVT and I'm already noticing results 4 weeks in. I can't wait to get back on a strength-focused routine and start putting these gains to work.

>>36020942
It's harder to lift a weight closer to your 1RM though, are you mentally challenged or something or is math not taught in your country?

>>36020935
<implying?

You only need 48 hours rest per bodypart meaning that you can actually train each bodypart at least 2 times a week.
You lazy bastard

>>36021103
Because someone doing a 4-5 day split is only training each body part once a week. Splits were meant for guys on tons of gear because protein synthesis is elevated for longer than 48 hours when you're on gear.

>>36021056
You can roid and look like shit. Just look at Jason blaha

Also he was six-time mr.o. No amount of roads will get you an Olympia title. You need crazy training, crazy genetics, AND crazy amounts of roids.

Man had the greatest lats of all time, he knew the optimum way to train for size.... Also unlike most roid monsters, his advice applies to natties because he took what worked best as a natty and added roids to it.

Itt: a bunch of autists who don't actually workout arguing about working out.

>>36021136
>his advice applies to natties because he took what worked best as a natty and added roids to it.

5 bucks and my left nut says you're under 170 lbs and can't bench more than 250 lbs because you are acting full-retarded right now.

>>36021126
>Because someone doing a 4-5 day split is only training each body part once a week

Let's analyse this.
Day 1: Legs, Chest, Shoulders

Day 2: Back, Arms

Repeat

Seems to me like you can do Day 1 for 3 times and Day 2 for 2 times for 5 days in a row, while allowing each bodypart to have 48 hours of rest.

So your theory is bs, i know, because i've been training like this for months without the use of any steroids.
And i'm going to do chest everyday this week.

Synthesis, gear, don't speak about things you don't have personal experience with, how do you know that YOUR body can't handle it without trying?

...Virgins these days...i bet you'll never try tkaing it up the ass too, faggot.

>>36021149
In almost all of these threads it becomes clear really quickly that the anti-SS camp are new lifters who've been memed by /fit/ and need to reassure themselves that their 10 exercises per bodypart 7 day split really will keep working for them in the long run.

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dunno the source lil faggs, saw this crap yesterday on a thread

>>36021236
Yes, because SS will work better in the long run?????

>>36021236
I think both parties are equally ridiculous. In the true spirit of /fit/, nobody gives a shit about what's actually right - The important thing is to win the fucking argument and call the other guy a retard as many times as possible.

>>36021229
That's not a 4-5 day split. That's a 2 day split genius.

>>36021091
>It's harder to lift a weight closer to your 1RM though, are you mentally challenged or something or is math not taught in your country?
And doing low volume is easier then doing high volume retard.

>>36021229
What the hell are you saying? Do you think I'm doing some sort of split?

>>36021266
>because SS will work better in the long run?????
No, retard. You have to change methodology as you get stronger. Literally autistic.

>>36021264
kek, it's fake.
>7 reps=0 gains

>>36021229
You have some serious reading comprehension issues.

>>36021277
D-d-do i look like i care?
S-s-shut the fuck up

>>36021296
I'm thinking you're doing SS

>>36021297
>What is sarcasm?

>>36021323
You have some serious autistic issues

Skelly trying to get into weightlifting. Should I just shill out and get a personal trainer so I dont have to worry about who is trolling about routines and who isnt?

>>36021345
>I'm thinking you're doing SS
Nope, I'm doing my own programming which turns out to be a 6 day upper/lower. Previously did daily maxing on squat and bench. Why aren't you daily maxing you scared little faggot?

>>36021354
>weightlifting
If you're getting into Oly training, then yes, you need a coach.

>>36021354
DESU, routines are usually done for a period of 2 months and not longer.
You could use these 2 months to get used to the barbell exercises and then switch to a normall routine and start making bodybuildergains, but i wouldn't become like these SS fags who do 1 routine for 6 months and wonder why people laugh at them or why they aren't ripped like the rest of us.

>>36021229
You're a fucking retard. Please fuck off.

>>36021345
lmao why would you use sarcasm over text?

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>>36020400
Don't forget that if you are doing light weights, it's imperative that you go to failure. And I don't mean "it's hurting I can't do it anymore" kind of failure. If you've done low weights to failure you know what I mean, your muscles get bumped and hurt so much that you want to stop, but deep you know you can cram another few reps. After you've crammed those " another few reps", and you feel like you can't do another rep, but you say fuck it and manage another 1 or 2. Those few reps are the ones that count. It hurts. It builds muscles. Do light weights. Do medium weights. Do heavy weights. But do it smart. Feels your muscles working through the contraction. Do it to failure. After you've failed, fail once more. That's how you build muscle.

>>36021354
Eat clean, do a 3-4 day split at 8-10 rep range, use core exercises, dont fall for the SS-meme, change routine after 8-10 weeks.

>>36021375
Daily maxing? I go heavier each day that i'm in the gym. What do you mean daily maxing?
I destroy you

>>36021408
No, you're just a whiney little bitch.

>>36021432
Is there a law stating that sarcasm can't be used over text?

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>>36021446
>Be Safety

>>36021457
>Is there a law stating that sarcasm can't be used over text?
No, but there should be a law that prevents retards from using the internet.

What the fuck are you nerds talking about

Is this the part where I do 5x5 reading the sticky instead of actually lifting anything

>>36021489
/thread
I feel ashamed.

>>36021457
6 days a week for squat and bench I worked up to a daily minimum (around 85% 1rm), then worked up to a daily max (95% of 1 rep max) depending on how I felt. also 2 of those days II would drop the weight 10-15% and do 3 sets of 5-8 then drop another 10% and do as many as possible.

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>>36021457
>I go heavier each day that i'm in the gym.
>mfw after 300 days in the gym he is 300 lbs heavier

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>>36021520
>mfw that guy is working out harder than most of /fit/

>2016
>people still not using heavy compound for low reps (4-6) followed by 8-12 compounds and 10-15 isolations

Daily reminder that if you are not doing this you are never gonna make it

>>36021575
But I do. GZCL master race

>>36021484
You're using the pc with a safety helmet, aren't ya?

>>36021501
I see, the last 2 months i did 100% 1RM each wednesday and on monday and friday i did strenght and hypertrophy.
Upped my bench by 25lbs (10kg) in those 2 months.
And this week i'm going to do a full chest week, mostly medium weights on the bench 10-15 reps, but 80-90% of 1RM on the other chest exercises ending each exercise with 1 set to failure (Gotta go hard this week).

>>36021520
Like Piana 2.0