>squats >ohp >deadlift >bench >rows that all i've

>>35691542
Happy New Year to you too

Maybe you should touch a barbell at least once before you assess the training methods that surround it.

>>35691626
no accesories?

>>35691632
Read SS

>>35691672
wanted to do SL, but that without accesory lifts seems not enough for what i want to achieve ( strength )

>>35691542
>>35691681
Yes the "no accessories" is a meme. You should put most of your focus on heavy excercises, like squats, bench, deadlift, but doing 2 or 3 lighter excercises afterwards will be better then only doing the compounds. This does NOT mean that you should do dropsets, go to failure or any other stupid shit, it means doing 3 sets or something and leaving at least one rep in the tank on every set.

Main reason for SL and SS not having that much accessory lifts is because most people are afraid to lift heavy and would rather do some curls all day.

>>35691681
What kind of accessory lifts do you have in mind, and what impact do you imagine they'd have on your strength?
Also, how do you define strength?

>>35691732
just being generally stronger
>>35691723
so it's not bad to just to compunds right?

>>35691746
>so it's not bad to just to compunds right?
It's not bad. You will hit most of your muscles hard and you'll definetily get stronger and bigger doing only compounds. You also get more carry-over into other sports/situations from doing compounds then you would from doing only isolations.

Doing isolation excercises is good for focusing more on certain muscles(for example, calves doesn't get that trained from doing squats so you might want to add a lift specifically for the calves) and for keeping the body balanced(example: Some people get forward hunched shoulders from doing a lot of benching with bad technique, rows can help balance the shoulder muscles so they pull the shoulders back into the right position)

>>35691746
>just being generally stronger
I don't think you understood the question.
Strength can be a lot of things and is very specific. For example; one guy can lift 100 kgs 10 times and 120 kgs only 1 time. Another who guy can lift 140 kgs 1 time but 100 kgs only 6 times. Who is stronger?
Strength is extremely specific to how you train. The World's greatest arm wrestler and the World's best shot putter is not the same person. They're both incredibly strong though.
Somebody who'd worked his whole life on a farm could utterly humiliate a bodybuilder doing some things like stacking hay for hours, but would look like a complete beginner in the weight room.

Anyway, training the big basic compound exercises (especially the 5 mentioned in the OP) is one way of getting really strong. As far as becoming strong goes, most other exercises you do, you do because they help you increase the big important exercises, which are the ones that'll get you where you want to be.

>>35691797
alright, sounds good. i'll be doing SL then, solely the compounds
>>35691811
yeah well i meant strong in general, i'm a weak guy and holding a door can be stressful for me, so i want to build mass and get stronger, don't really care for abs, shouldn't be too much fat though

>>35691542
Add some pullups and you're golden.

>>35691847
StrongLifts is okay. I think Starting Strength is better, and Greyskull Linear Periodization is the best option. I'd do GSLP if I had to start over.

>>35691887
>and Greyskull Linear Periodization is the best option.
>Doing AMRAPs every session
Nah, that's just a way for beginners to feel like they're putting in more work then they do. Also letting the AMRAPs decide how much you up the weight seems kind of silly since it encourages you to cheat out more reps and faster isn't always better.

Good StrongLifts with 3x5 instead of 5x5.
Or do Starting Strength, and replace power cleans with rows.

>>35691992
>Le low volume meme

>>35691542

yes this is all you need... maybe throw in pullups and power cleans. u sound braindead though, so maybe dont even lift and check yourself into the hospital so they can let your family decide whether to pull the plug or not.

kpeaceoutbye

>>35692004
>implying 5x5 is high volume

>>35692096
I only implied that 3x5 is low volume

>>35692131

When it comes to volume vs. frequency, frequency wins for beginners.

>>35691542
If you want traps add Power Cleans. And anon, your one rep maxes are a meme

>>35692139
The frequency is the same in SS and SL though?

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>>35691542
I'm only 2 weeks or something into SL so everything has been light (except OHP kmn) so I just do accessories and other shit that will help me with the compounds either after or between the 3 compounds. Between the compounds if I have to wait for someone to be done.

I also do some cardio in the final minutes of the 1hr 30minutes minimum i allot myself

>>35692163

Yeah, the frequency is, in SS, you add chin-ups after week 3. You also deadlift every session until your deadlift far exceeds your squat, and then you replace one day's deadlift with power cleans.

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>>35691611

>>35692272

Also, if you're still afraid of ending up like a t-Rex, if you do SS, do a couple sets of skullcrushers and curls every Friday starting with week 3.

>>35692292
>skullcrushers
More like elblowouts.

>>35692319

Not if you do them right you pussy.

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mfw I can tell I'm gonna stall very soon on the Overhear (You mean the Press Right?) Press, and I'm only at 50kg.

>>35692272
So the frequency is a little better for deadlifts in SS but after a few weeks it becomes the same as SL.

>Power cleans doing that much for deadlifts

>>35692347
They are inherently tough on the elbow tendons, due to the extreme stretch.

>>35692387

Pretty much, power cleans are a sort of an assistance exercise for pressing movements and deadlifts and help build traps and make a balanced physique. You start doing them when your deadlift becomes heavy enough that you can't progress while doing it every session.

>>35692411
>power cleans are a sort of an assistance exercise for pressing movements
Dude, what?

>>35692452

I meant to counter balance. Not assist. I literally typed that out while taking a shit.

>>35692466
How do you figure they help to counter balance pressing?

>>35691681
SL has 10 accessory exercises though senpai. Download the app.

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>>35692476

No idea what he's talking about but power cleans are the shit
Nothing makes you feel stronger than just ripping that weight up
>tfw 275 power clean

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>>35692504
Yea

>>35692476

The clean and chin-up work your upper back muscles, which include trapezius, rhomboid, lats, and posterior deltoids. The clean also uses your entire posterior chain. Basically, these keep your back muscles strong enough that they keep your shoulder/chest muscles from pulling your shoulders forward and giving your terrible posture.

In short, they're important and you need to do them too.

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>>35692504

>>35692362
That always happens lad, OHP gets really heavy really fast.

>>35692520
The power clean is very different from chin-ups.
You can't just lump them together.
What makes you think a power clean uses the rhomboids and posterior deltoids effectively?

>The clean also uses your entire posterior chain.
The hamstrings aren't used nearly as much as in a deadlift.

>In short, they're important and you need to do them too.
But that's just not true.

>>35691542
Yeah you know, Chins, Dips and some Bi/Tri/Delt/Rear Delt Isolations won't hurt that much

>>35691723
So what are the best 2 accessory exercises to accompany the main lifts?

I was thinking:
Bench - dips/close grip bench
Squat - front squats/leg press
Diddy - Romanian deadlifts
BB rows - DB rows/cable rows
OHP - seated DB shoulder press/lateral raises

Opinions?

>>35692571

>what makes you think the power clean uses the rhomboids and posterior delts

Because I know how to clean and if you aren't utilizing the fuck out of them you're doing it really wrong
What muscles do you think are used to keep the bar close following extension? What do you think pulls the body under the bar? How would they not be utilized?

>>35691797
Rows are a compound movement

>>35692633
you don't understand the purpose of support exercises. read starting strength.

>>35692658
If you do a power clean correctly, you don't transfer much horizontal momentum on the bar.

Do ab isolation for ab definition outside of body fat. Squats building abs is a meme. The rest is correct. Also walk looking distances up hill to get big calves.

>>35692387
>Power cleans doing that much for deadlifts
I see people saying this all the time, but I really don't agree at all.
I mean sure, if getting a big deadlift is a primary goal then specificity is of course king and you should practice the deadlift to become a good deadlifter. I also get that there are likely better assistance exercises out there, such as the Romanian deadlift and Bent-over row for example (maybe?).
But to say that the PC doesn't do much for deadlifts is just flat-out wrong in my experience. After I herniated a disc in my low back I stayed away from any really heavy lifting for around 3 years. Lately I started doing PCs (as the only posterior chain work that I do). Worked up to being able to do an ugly single with 90 kgs after about 6 months I think.. So this morning I thought to myself "wonder what I can deadlift", and pulled 170 kgs. Nothing record shattering, but pretty decent when I only trained the PC.

>>35692878
If you're not doing any heavy lifting, ofcourse power cleans will help (both with squats and deadlifts).
That wasn't the point though.
If you regularly do squats and deadlifts, adding power cleans will not make your squat or deadlift go up much, if at all.

>>35692724

Not really true as the bar path has an backwards s shape
You actively pull the bar into you during the turnover but generally you shouldn't have to put too much horizontal force into the bar as that makes it hard to balance

>>35692904
That doesn't make any sense to me. It either helps or it doesn't. It works all the same muscles and in much the same way.

>>35693148
It's not black and white, you doofus.
Example: rows will hit the biceps, but curls will hit them better.
It's not like rows either do or don't build biceps.
Same goes for power cleans.
They don't use all the same muscles in the same way.
They're much more limited by scapular elevation strength and power generation than deadlifts.
Hamstring strength requirements are lower in power cleans, etc.

>>35693221
"Additionally, the activities of the MG, biceps brachii (BB), and GM were all greater than the BF."

MG = calves (medial gastr.), BF = hamstrings (biceps fem.), GM = glutes (gluteus max.)

EMG Changes of Eight Muscles during the Performance of the Power Clean by Novice Lifter
Heredia-Vargas et al, University of Miami

>>35693221
But following the other guy's logic that's like saying that rows will do nothing whatsoever for your biceps if you're already doing biceps curls.
And regardless of whether scapula elevation and hamstring demands are higher or lower, it's still the same muscles.

Like I said, PCs might not be the BEST assistance exercise for deadlifts (and as such probably needn't be performed by people whose goal it is to deadlift big and not much else), but it's still a good assistance exercise for it, and it doesn't make sense to say that it won't help.

>>35693290
>But following the other guy's logic that's like saying that rows will do nothing whatsoever for your biceps if you're already doing biceps curls.
If they demands on the biceps are that much lower for rows than for curls, then yes, doing rows will do pretty much nothing if you're already doing curls.
(that's not true, because rows can hit the biceps pretty hard, but that's besides the point)

>And regardless of whether scapula elevation and hamstring demands are higher or lower, it's still the same muscles.
Demands matter, a lot. The hamstrings and quadriceps are used during curls too, the demands are just a lot lower than with squats.
Does that mean you can do curls for leg development? kek

>but it's still a good assistance exercise for it
Except it's not, because it won't improve your deadlift.

>>35692571
>>The clean also uses your entire posterior chain.
>The hamstrings aren't used nearly as much as in a deadlift.

you what?

You deadlift the bar to the hang position, where you explode and rack it on the front delts. Or am I doing it wrong?

>>35691542
while we're on the subject, is sitching from 5x5 to 3x8 viable?

>>35693407
According to that guy, you use the hamstrings about as much as you use them during curls. Which is of course ridiculous, but I guess at this point he's more concerned with winning an internet argument than who's actually right.

I mean, it's pretty silly to stubbornly claim that it won't improve my deadlift when I just told that it already has.

>>35693407
It's not exactly a deadlift, but it is similar, yes.
However, the weight is much less than in a deadlift, which means that the demands on the hamstrings are much lower too.

>>35693435
That's not what I said and you know it.
You also never said that doing PCs improved your DL.
All you said was that when you were doing nothing except PCs, that they helped maintain your DL strength.
Once again, a completely different thing.

>>35693423
bump

>>35693492
>All you said was that when you were doing nothing except PCs, that they helped maintain your DL strength.
Well I'm sorry if I wasn't being clear about that though, but after my injury I was inactive for a long time and couldn't even DL 40 kgs. So I think it's unfair to say that the PCs simply "maintained" my strength, seeing as it had completely gone to shit.

>>35693423
Yes. That's what I did once I reached 1/2/3/4. You first switch to 4x6 then after a while you switch to 3x8-6-6 and then 3x8. I spent around a month during the switch but that was me being far too careful.

Switching to 3x8 is kinda useless without proper numbers and I believe continuing strength training is useless after linear progression stops. Useless here is in the sense of marginal utility with respect to time.

>>35693407

You don't really deadlift it. Unlike the deadlift the shoulders should be over the bar, not behind it, and your back angle shouldn't change until the bar reaches the knees roughly. It's more like leg pressing the floor away while using the lats to keep the bar close and driving through hips/knees/ankles all at the same time while maintaining tension in the upper back then while the feet are moving outward utilizing this tension to continue pulling on the bar but instead of lifting it up you pull yourself under it, pushing the elbows forward and through and racking it on the front delts

>>35693613
alright, thanks anon i'll continue 5x5 and when i reach good numbers i'll switch

>>35693615
>Unlike the deadlift the shoulders should be over the bar, not behind it
The shoulders can't be behind the bar in a deadlift.

>It's more like leg pressing the floor away while using the lats to keep the bar close and driving through hips/knees/ankles all at the same time while maintaining tension in the upper back then while the feet are moving outward utilizing this tension to continue pulling on the bar
Congratulations, you just perfectly described a deadlift.

A clean pull and a deadlift are different, but not for the "reasons" you mentioned.

>>35693600
Even then, muscle memory is a real thing.
There's a big difference between getting back to what you could do before and progressing beyond lifetime PRs.

>>35692633
>So what are the best 2 accessory exercises to accompany the main lifts?
Depends on goals with training.

Say you're training for looks, and you do highbar squats. Maybe a hamstring isolation excercise or something like that since you want the hamstrings to look proportional.

Say you're training to be a good deadlifter. What you'd do is to analyse your lift and look for weak parts in your technique. If you have an inefficient bar path, paused deadlifts is a good idea. If your upper back rounds excessively, snatch grip deadlifts could help.

The best assistance lift is the one that furthers your goal.

>>35692878
And doing hamstring curls and leg extensions will help your squat. The question at hand is, is it more efficient then doing more squats or a squat variation?

>>35693825
typically higher hips at start of deadlift. you will/should have more upright torso at the start of a clean

that is also why you get less hamstring work

>>35694164
>Say you're training for looks, and you do highbar squats. Maybe a hamstring isolation excercise or something like that since you want the hamstrings to look proportional.
Deadlift (-variations) are great for hamstring development.
Alos, getting bigger hamstrings with isolation improves your deadlift.

>And doing hamstring curls [...] will help your squat
It most probably won't.
Squats are never limited by hamstring strength.

>>35694244
See? You can succintly answer the question.

>>35694317
>Deadlift (-variations) are great for hamstring development.
>Alos, getting bigger hamstrings with isolation improves your deadlift.
Yes but if you're training for looks you're super afraid of getting a back injury by deadlifting.

>It most probably won't.
>Squats are never limited by hamstring strength.
Fine, disregard the part about hamstring curls if you want, it was just an example. Nice job changing subjects.

>>35694408
>Yes but if you're training for looks you're super afraid of getting a back injury by deadlifting.
kek

I'm not the guy you were responding to.
I actually agree with you.
Just wanted to correct some common myths you mentioned.