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Having patellar tendonitis, I am suppose to foam roll that bitch

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Having patellar tendonitis, I am suppose to foam roll that bitch to help stuff out. My question is, how much is too much foam rolling? Can I do it in the morning? Or should I only do it after a workout. Or before a workout? Because I work that bitch hard and it gets really painful so idk about before a workout. advice?
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>>31881506
>Because I work that bitch hard
maybe, just maybe, you should take it easy?
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Nigger you can't roll-out tendonitis, you have to let it heal
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>>31881827
You can do a little massage/stim to increase blood flow but that's it. Tendons and ligaments have relatively poor blood supply compared to muscles.
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>>31881506
Just blast it with ultrasound.
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>>31881842
You can roll it, not it but around it like the quads help reduce strain and pressure on it
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To help alleviate the pain of tendinitis, use a small knee strap. You can find them at most drugs stores. They do wonders
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>>31882189
I have one, but they don't fix the problem do they?
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>>31881506

I dont know about foam rolling, but I have the same condition OP

There are two very important things you need to do:

1) find any and all muscle tightness in your legs and stretch them the fuck out. It's most likely your calves and your hamstrings. And when I say stretch, I mean like some proper stretches, not some pansy-ass 5 second poses

2) Double check your form on all exercises relating to legs

The pain will NOT stop unless you do these two things. Pain is an indicator you are doing something wrong and something needs to change
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>>31881827
This

I had pataelar tendinitis, didn't let it heal, it turned into tendonosis and then tore. It's not worth it, take a week off of legs while constantly stretching and foam rolling them and see how it feels
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>>31883373
Ty for good response
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>>31881506
Rest + that pull your heel over your butt cheek stretch + cissus extract pill. Repeat until fixed
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>>31883763
I got diagnosed in October lol
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>>31883763
Like it just started hurting again badly after squatting
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I was diagnosed with stage 3(stage 4 = torn the fuck off) patellar tendonitis in august. I used to be an athlete at a reasonably high level.

The situation was bad. Running in general hurt, squatting and deadlifting hurt, the squat would hurt even with just the bar. The situation now is good, deadlifting 140kgx3 without pain, I can squat lmao2pl8 x3 without pain. Running is not an issue anymore.

This is how I've improved my patellar tendonitis:
- take a long-ass-time off squatting, harsh I know, and say goodbye to isolation of the quads
- I did a lot of hamstringisolation, that shit worked wonders, and my hams are strong as fuck now
- stretching quads, calves, hips, the groin, hams and glutes also worked really well
- pressure on the tendon works wonders on everything
- massage your as much tissue connected to the knee as possible
- always make 100andfucking10% sure you're properly warmed up in the legs

Here is some useful links:
BB.com, read everything flex500 wrote
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=636568
this one is good too
http://drsquat.com/content/jumpers-knee
ChalkTalk, this guy knows his shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9pAX6KQLM
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>>31881506
I got patellar tendinitis too and had to deal with it for about half a year now. It gets better, but progress is very slow. Don't expect anything different.

>>31881842
True. You can also use knee sleeves to keep the knee warm. They have helped me.

>>31883373
This is also true.

One very important thing: keep atleast 4 rest days between any knee-heavy movement. Make it 5 or 6 days if your knee doesn't feel quite recovered.

But it is important to then actually do exercise after those 4 rest days. Doing no leg exercises at all only makes it worse.

Watch this video and do the stretches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLh0jF5M_gY

Do single leg eccentric squats, preferably on an incline board. Come down on one leg very slowly (keep the knee forwards, like a front squat, not like a back squat), then stand up again with both legs.

Strengthen the hip abductors (gluteus maximus and medius). Do unilateral (one legged) exercises. Practice stability.
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>>31884574
I posted >>31884675 but thanks for those links!
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>>31884743
did not know about those stretches, will add them to my routine, thanks anon
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bump, won't let this useful thread die
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>>31884574
So strengthening hamstrings helped a lot? What about stretching them?
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>>31883373
So stretch the fuck out of the hams and calves? How do you stretch calves? And I've been foam rolling that helps too. Pain during foam rolling is good though?
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>>31884675
What about adductors
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>>31885524
I didn't write that post, but adequate hamstring strength is really important for knee health.

>>31885669
The adductors usually aren't a problem as they get hit in many hip extension movements (e.g. deadlifts, goodmornings). They are often tight though, so stretching them is probably good.

If you find that your patella (kneecap) tracks medially (to the inside) too much, it could be that your adductors are weak and that you need to strengthen them.

You can test if you have an imbalance by doing both the seated abduction and the seated adduction machine. You should roughly do the same amount of weight (for a certain amount of reps).
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>>31885524
I wrote that post.

Yes, as >>31885812 said hamstring health is really important and i would the say that the absolute best excercise for my recovery are Romanian deadlifts(RDL).

AND as the guy from 70'sBig video I posted said: always assume kneepain is product of hip-tightness, doing this stretch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JawPBvtf7Qs has been a big weapon in my fight for recovery. His videos in general have been crucial for me.
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>>31885812
How can I strengthen my hamstrings without doing the squat movement? I don't wana hurt my knees
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>>31886329
Romanian deadlift(personal fav), stiff-legged deadlift, some variations of legpress, leg-/hamstringcurls
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>>31885812
I have flat feet, so my knees do cave in a bit naturally. You think strengthening my adductors would help this issue and possibly fix my knee issue? Or at least help?
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>>31885812
You got me really interested in the adductor thing. I do have flat feet like I said. So I should work with the adductor machine? What kind of sets and reps are we talking for rehab
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compression does a lot for PT, get some bicycle inner tubing and wrap it tight around your knee, then do some supported squats.

Also, make sure you're releasing the IT band and adductors/VMO, rolling the popliteus, and stretching calves/hamstrings occasionally. If you're like me and get tendinitis through patellar tracking issues, these help a lot.
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>>31886380
>>31886422
I posted that.
I also have flat feet. You really don't want your knees to cave in, but you also don't want them out too much. The knees should be right in the middle, tracking over your foot.

It's important to strengthen the foot arch. You do that by lifting your big toe and contracting the muscles very hard (you will feel it in your calves). Look up foot arch exercises on youtube. I've found that weightlifting shoes help very much for squats. For deadlifts, I take off my shoes and just lift in socks. While doing deadlifts, I contract the foot arches very hard and focus on keeping them contracted through the lift.

The aBductors are important (the aDductors not so much). They pull your thighs outward. So use the abductor machine (see pic attached). I usually do 3~5 sets, with anywhere between 5~15 reps. If you're just starting, I'd do high reps (10~15) and focus on contracting properly. You need to activate the same muscles during a squat and deadlift. So focus on activation first.
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>>31886634
Can someone stretch hamstrings and strengthen them at the same time!
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>>31886747
What? Ofcourse. Just do the exercises at the gym and stretch afterwards, or at home.
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>>31886660
How do you contract your arch muscles? Is that flexing them or pushing them down?I've been squatting and deadlifting before this tendonitis with a custom arch. One of those green super feet from the doc. I was told it was okay to lift in them
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>>31886747

stretching the hamstrings after you've used them (in for example strength training) leads to long-term flexibility progress

same as everything else
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>>31886660
In the original post you said adductors which is pushing thighs together so I got confused
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>>31886768
It's flexing them, making the arch bigger. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpPQ8Yk_zjU
You should probably keep the arch thing in your shoe while squatting, but give deadlifting in socks or bare feet a try.
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>>31886660
Yeah not gonna squat until this is fixed. But I'm gonna deadlift and maybe do rdls to strengthen hamstrings. So I should not worry about adductors and just abductors? How do you stretch calves? Like foam roll them?
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>>31886794
Usually the lateral quadriceps (outer quads) are strong, while the medial quadriceps (also called vmo, inner quads) are weak. The patella (kneecap) then could track too much laterally (to the outside). So you need to strengthen the medial quadriceps and the hip abductors. This is a problem I've also experienced.
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>>31886814
So you're saying fixing flat feet is possible? Because if I fix thaf., my knees that curve in will be a but better as it is
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>>31886861

look up the calf stretch, but also try pic related; calf tightness and ankle tightness often go hand in hand and one can be confused for another
>>
>Had Patellar Pain
>took 3 weeks off squating
>all fixed
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>>31886872
Medial quads? How do I do those then?
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>>31886861
Do this calve stretch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYi9kxDxQZ4

And do this hamstring-calve stretch (dorsiflex your foot so you feel it in both the hamstrings and the calves): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDuAEa4ZCMs

>>31886886
If you have 'supple' flat feet (as opposed to 'rigid' flat feet), you can improve it a lot. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_feet

>>31886971
Look at your leg. Are your inner quads small? Is there a difference between your legs? Place your hand on it, extend your leg fully, and try to contract them. Can you contract them slowly and then also slowly let them relax again? Do they fire (contract) right away, or does your outer quad contract first and the inner quad follow a bit later (delay)?
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>>31887046
Isn't the inner thigh the vastus medialus?
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>>31884675
>>31885812
>>31886660
>>31886814
>>31886872
>>31887046
I hope I've helped. I'm out now, going to the gym.
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>>31887046
Also yes the inner quad sucks for me. When I contract my leg I can feel the outer doing all the work
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>>31887204

by the knee it's the vmo, above that it's the adductors
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>>31887298
Is that what that other anon was talking about
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>>31887668

yeah he's referring to vmo. Specifically, innervation of the vmo relative to the rest of the quads it seems. I've had this issue a lot in the past, and find step ups to help strengthening regardless of diagnosis
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>>31881506
physio told me i had some calcification on the tendon. he said this was causing crepitus but he didn't really checking anything else.

he then said the only way to remove this was through surgery or 'pining': jabbing it with a pin to make it regrow.

currently i have almost no pain.

anyone have any experience or insight into this?

thanks
>>
I was doing high bar squat and didn't know my knees were caving. When I found out it I already had pain in my knees randomly throughout the day (but not when squatting). Is there anyway to reverse the damage?
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>>31887942
So step ups will help strengthen the medial quadricep And will help push out the knee from being inverted naturally via flat feet? Am I understanding this correctly
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>>31887942
>>31888646
How can you work the inner quad? Wide leg press?
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>>31888646

it's more that done correctly it strengthens all the surrounding musculature. I'm not sure it cures flat feet though.

>>31888672

I believe the best you can do with isolating the vmo is turning the toes outwards laterally and doing light quad extensions. Double edged sword though because you have to then worry about the damage an open chain exercise can do. I prefer to just squat/front squat carefully.
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>>31888561
lol. I am the opposite of you. I have pain in my knees during my warmup sets of high bar squats, but not during my working sets, and never throughout the day
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>>31887942
I can agree with this.

>>31888646
>And will help push out the knee from being inverted naturally via flat feet?
You want to keep your knees in line with your feet (see pic "normal"). You don't want knee varus (knees too much out) or knee valgus (knees too much in). Both are bad.

>>31888672
Turning the toes outwards shifts the load slightly to the inner quads. I've found that the only way to exhaust my inner quads before my outer quads was to do leg presses with 30~60 degrees knee flexion, while focusing on putting force on the medial (inner) side of my foot.
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>>31889615

lel r u me
this is more or less exactly my opinion too, though as I said before I worry about the effect of open chain exercises on a compromised knee
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>>31889615
Cant do leg press with this knee pain I have, so I guess that will have to wait
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What are people's experience with knee sleeves, like the one you get from the drug stores? I was wondering if I should get one. I have some mild pain and don't want it to get worse
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>>31889735

order some rehbands and wear them on top of tights for ultimate knee comfort
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>>31889663
>I worry about the effect of open chain exercises on a compromised knee
Yup, I wouldn't use leg extensions for anything more than high-rep, low load warm-ups.
I'm not sure why you mentioned that again though? Leg presses are a closed chain exercise.
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>>31889778

sorry, I read that as leg extensions for some reason.
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>>31889771
What about a 10 buck tendon band u stick on your knee?
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>>31889805

might work short term I guess but I prefer to spend a bit more on quality
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>>31889833
One wouldnt need the band if they did the fucking exercises in this thread, yes?
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>>31889674
Pain is almost never a good sign. Although I went through 4 PTs, I still recommend you see a physical therapist. A sports doctor could be good to see too.

>>31889735
I got the Rehband knee sleeves and I like them.

>>31889796
Ah, okay.

>>31889805
I've never used a patellar tendon strap, but I've read that they distribute the load on the tendon more evenly by providing pressure. Clarence Kennedy (clarence0 on youtube) has got severe patellar tendinitis and also uses them, so they're probably helpful.
If you're getting one, don't skimp on it. Get something high-quality.
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>>31881506
Ive had this for about 5 years now lol. Wat do, i play bball and soccer.
I cant play the day after a game because running hurts like fuark.
Not op btw.
Is it tendonosis now lol
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>>31889874
I don't think it's one or the other. A patellar tendon strap probably helps regardless.
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>>31889877
The thing is, I cant go to a pt or doctor, no health insurance lol. I could go to the guy my mom sees but thats 188 miles away. SO I wana try to fix it with the shit in this thread
>>
It took about a year and a half for mine to heal. Mine was bad enough that I once did 'something' during a game of netball that caused it to give way. It didn't test according to the doctors I've seen since, but the pain was bad enough that I passed out and was in the ambulance before I woke up.
Anyway I literally just did stuff. Took about 3 months off of leg and deads, plus a lot of movements that I could feel in my knees (seated preachers is the only one I remember). After that I started hiking a lot and light legs. It hurt up until 4 months ago when it just started to get better. I didn't really rehab it seriously. I just rested it.
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>>31889907
Don't fuck around with this. Go see a local PT and pay for the session (it's probably less than $100). Or go to your mom's guy.

We can only help you so far. You need someone who can see you in real life.
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>>31889958
I don't advise strapping or using a support. It's usually caused by weak supporting muscles that cause the knee to be unstable during movements and put pressure and tension on the tendon. Strapping it doesn't make those muscles work. Sumo squats are good for those supporting muscles - hip abductors and adductors I'm pretty sure are the ones I mean.
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>>31889997
>(it's probably less than $100).
1 session of physical therapy without insurance in my state is $577 without tax
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>>31890021
Wow, it's way less here in the Netherlands.
$600+ seems absolutely crazy.

Why don't you have health insurance?
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>>31889874

I wish that was true, but rarely is due to structural imbalances, movement patterns, and plain old fucked up musculature.

>>31889877

I believe they keep the kneecap in line with the central line of the knee. Well, at least that's one of their functions.

>>31889888

it's probably just regular tendinitis rather than tendinosis

you have an issue that needs fixing, probably weakness
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>>31890059
I'm 21, and am in college. No full time job so no health insurance, of course unless I go to where my mother is. But again, thats far as fuck
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>>31890089

your college should provide care
if not, just sign up for Medicaid
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>>31890063
>I wish that was true, but rarely is due to structural imbalances, movement patterns, and plain old fucked up musculature.
what?
>>31890100
community college
>>
>>31890100
Also not poor enough for medicaid
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>>31890063
>I believe they keep the kneecap in line with the central line of the knee.
They do? I thought patellar tendon straps (see pic) merely provide pressure on the tendon, while knee sleeves keep the knee tracking better.
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>>31890184
>see pic
Would that be the tendon? Looks like the patellar ligament to me
Also looks completely useless. What does a little pressure do, and how does it affect your hamstring tendons behind the knee?
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>>31890109
>>31890125

what state?
and yeah, basically a lot of people have fucked up knees in some respect, and the exercises will do a lot for preventing regular injury, but probably won't be enough for trying to reduce that to low risk. That's where the sleeves come in, because they keep you warm and stable

>>31890184

I thought this too, but spoke to a podiatrist (yeah I know) who tried to correct me. Apparently the pressure on the tendon keeps the patella grounded and only the contraction that happens during flexion is sufficient enough to move it (and then only vertically)
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>>31890291
Illinois, that should say it all
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>>31890324

Illinois is a medicaid expansion state, and you are probably eligible for subsidies

https://getcoveredillinois.gov/
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>>31890279
>Would that be the tendon? Looks like the patellar ligament to me
Patellar ligament is the same thing as the patellar tendon. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patellar_ligament)

>Also looks completely useless.
It's not. Olympic lifters use it all the time.

>What does a little pressure do
See >>31889877

>and how does it affect your hamstring tendons behind the knee?
I'm not sure, but I don't think it has any negative effect on them.

>>31890291
>I thought this too, but spoke to a podiatrist (yeah I know) who tried to correct me. Apparently the pressure on the tendon keeps the patella grounded and only the contraction that happens during flexion is sufficient enough to move it (and then only vertically)
That's very interesting actually. I'm not assuming (?) it for truth, but I will keep it in the back of my mind.
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How low cab i foamroll here, about halfway the pain is intense
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>>31890359
Not without a job im not. Im not black or mexican so no free passes
>>
File: CAM00479.jpg (3MB, 4208x3120px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
CAM00479.jpg
3MB, 4208x3120px
>>31890741
Forgot pic
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>>31890808

blacks and mexicans play by the same rules you do. You just said you had a part time job, but the only thing that affects eligibility for a federal program is your income. If you have no income, as a student would, you are eligible for Medicaid. If you have income from a part time job, your employer doesn't have to provide it, but you are eligible for health insurance subsidies or medicaid depending on annual income.
>>
Does anyone's knee move side to side? Not the patella but the tibia and femur move side to side.
>>
How often should I use the tendon strap?
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