HELP

>>919350
No expert but these things usually come down to tolerances and power ratings, you mostly would have to take their word for it as testing these tolerances would be time consuming and in some cases destructive. For example, modern microprocessors and chips are usually rated after manufacture for their stable speeds and what not.

>>919359
My assumption is that Frys is actually a third party to some other manufacturer. They'd have to be the first retail store in history manufacturing their own line of small items.

>>919350
Guitar amps have been built for ages with terrible tolerancing and great results.

Better tubes for example will be quieter, last longer, and be more efficient. This is all kind of moot though when you're hosing full bore distortion through your drivers.

The type of components chosen will make more of a difference, albeit a very small one.

>>919350
Shit guy, start out slow
Tube theory makes no sense. And when used in audio equipment it will drive you crazy. I work with guitar amps part time. And when some guitar jackoff kid comes in with his dad as says he wants more jigga wahwah from his amp and wont swap tubes since hey he bought the amp only 2 years ago...

So some common newbie mistakes I see made when people "repair" (if a nigger with a hammer can be called a repairman) their shit.

Learn your tubes.
You don't have to know the difference between 6L6GL and a 6L6EH but pls don't try to shove something like a 12ax7 in there it wont work and might just kill you if I'm lucky.

Check wattage ratings on components.
A lot of people put 1/4 watt resistors in place of 1/2 of 1watt resistors. They burn out.
Same goes for capacitors. This is where you might want to pay a bit more attention since these do explode, so if you fuck up, there's a lot more at stake. Transformers overheat a lot. Leave them room to cool. Ceramic is better than plastic for tube sockets. Use a decent wire when wiring your shit. I've seen a lot of mods made with shitty wire, this burns the wire out and puts a lot more work on the tubes so they last a lot less.
Some components have mounting rings, kipp switches and potentiometers, this makes them more expensive, not buy much but don't skimp out on money here it will save you a trip to the store.
Now silver and gold plated wire. I like my connectors gold plated. This is to prevent contacts from corroding over time. This really fucks shit up on amps. It makes a cracking noise and is just annoying as shit. This can be fixed with a bit of sand paper inside the jack, flat out swapping the jack whenever it gets cracky, or you can save yourself the trouble and use a gold plated one. you oly need like 4 connectors and the price difference is negligible.

>>919614
cont.

Kipp switches have a sure contact thing, this makes it so that you cant have the switch in a bad contact position where it would spark, this is implemented to protect the tubes.
The tops of potentiometers have a large price difference between ones with a plastic and a metal winding in them. Metal ones last longer and are therefore better they are also more expensive.

Now a word on safety.
Unplug it first!
You are not done yet. Now these things have big filter capacitors, with can have enough power stored to turn you in to a burned crisp. So you need to discharge them before hand. You can look up how to safely do this online. simply use a resistor and a decent peace of insulated wire to short them out, and check if they really are discharged with a multimeter.
Most amps have what's called a bleeder circuit. Older ones don't and if you built your own it might not have it. So always assume the caps are charged.
Ground GORUND GND, make sure everything is grounded always. People die because of this. Ground your chassis your transformer and every switch.
You need a fuse, not rolled up tin foil, a fuse with a proper rating.
Encase the filter caps in some form of shield when the amps is done. Like I said these sometimes explode, you don't want the guitar player catching shrapnel.
And that's pretty much all that comes to mind right now. Will be answering guitar amp general questions

>>919614
>gold connectors
Muh tone metalz

>>919616
The gold on your connecter won't make you sound any better or less like shit, it will just keep you sounding for longer before the jack falls apart inside and needs to be replaced.
also it's a guitar amplifier, if tone doesn't matter than what dose?

>Inb4 LED-s

>>919621
>if tone doesn't matter, wat does?

fucking exactly my point and why I'm trying to find the better components to be used..on guitar and stereo tube amps, I'm noticing most people referencing the quality of transformers being an item that makes significant difference..I'm just asking why, really.

how are any components I buy from Frys or Radioshaq any different from "Premium Components"?

>>919614
>Tube theory makes no sense.

What the fuck did I just read? Apply yourself, it's just a learned skill like most other things.

>>919616
..never really understood all that, considering silver is a better conductor and considerably less expensive.

>>919614
>>919615
please continue if you're still around.

Ceramic capacitors are better than most.
Use germanium diodes for audio signal applications.
Resistors generally don't need to be low tolerance, if they do the data sheets will say so.
Art of Electronics is an excellent book.

>>920230
Why are ceramic caps and germanium diodes better though? Not disagreeing, just curious as to the reasoning.

>>920207

Silver is a better conductor yes, bit it makes for poor connectors since it covers it's surface with a layer of oxide, if you have any silver trinkets you'll notice they loose their shine and get cloudy over time, well this oxide is a bad conductor. its ok for wires, but not so much for jacks connectors.

>>920108

Well I'm pretty sure OP is a beginner with tools, and experience to match. So explaining tube theory on a post limited to 2000 characters is not gonna work out.
What I was implying was that need won't really need to know the difference in the low end and high end responses in a germanium or a tungsten tube. He wont be able to measure them without an spectrogram, and unless he is a seasoned musician wont be able to tell the difference.
So he can skip learning theory and start building, than later on fill in the gaps as he needs to.

>>920089
I don't know what Frys is but I'm assuming a general electronics store.
Also I'm assuming that "premium" means the components have a smaller error tolerance.
The simple example would be a resister with a gold and a resistor with a silver stripe.
If it's a 100 ohm resistor with a silver it mens it's 100ohm +/- 10%. so it could be a 90ohm resistor or a 110ohm resistor and anywhere in between. With a gold stripe it's 5%.
So you get a bit more precision for your coin.
Transformers are weired things to put a price on.
I've seen people buy 30yo transformers form old fender amps for the price of a kidney. Witch is see as insane. Things to look for that drive the price up is the tapping on the transformer. If you want to drive various speaker sets (normally 4,8,16 ohms) make sure your transformer is tapped the right way to give you the power you need (this may vary based on amp design).
What i found works best as far as obsolete components work is to get hooked up with local radio amateurs. These guys have their ear to the ground for old-world components, Russian old new stock tubes ets.

>>920232
The properties of a capacitor drift with changes in temperature, frequency, voltage, age, ect. This causes non-lineararities in the signal
Ceramics are more stable in this respect but all capacitor types have their uses.

Germanium diodes or "signal diodes" have a lower voltage drop than silicon diodes which results in less cross over distortion in a signal.

>>920232
Another thing is that germanium diodes and ceramic caps have a higher temperature tolerance.
So they wont burn out before the fuse in case of a short. However older amps had wax paper capacitors used as filter capacitors and there worked fine. However they go bad over time.

>>920238
OP here. So is the silver solder talk I see around the audiophile forums just a bunch of crap?

Also, Frys Electronics is basically a general electronics store with quite a much better selection of DIY electronic stuff. Got my Fluke 117, WES51 soldering station...hell, I've pretty much bought all of my higher end electronics tools from there. But it's obviously much easier to know what is and isn't a good tool versus components..I was actually fairly astonished by the lack of results on google.

Keep going btw if you're down for it. Any morsel of info you provide will not go unread or unused.

>>920250
Neah silver solder is a waste of money. The only place i really see it having a real use is in some super precise instruments. I only used it a hand full of times when fixing resistor boxes for my university.

Now are you serious about building an amp? A tube amp? Might want to look i to making a clones first. Just to get some practice around circuitry. Look in to some early amps, without a lot of bells and whistles. Guitar in loud out. This you can sell on and make up (most) for the money you put in to it.
Avoid bells and whistles since these are a bit harder to troubleshoot without some serous gear and know how. Ease in to it over a few amps.
Get some dummy loads for said troubleshooting, older amps might burn out a transformer without a load and newer ones simply wont start. Having a oscilloscope and a frequency generator will save you some troubles, but these are expensive so buy them used analog is fine too. I inherited mine so I can't help you here much but mine are over 35 years old and are the workhouse of my little shop. There are tube testers and tube biasers out there and a lot off garbage things designed to rip off guitarists. They are expensive as fuck and basically trinkets. Tubes come in pairs from the factory, no need to check them again, you can bias your tubes with a multimeter and a hand full of math, and if your bass goes wild well that means your tubes need to be replaced.
Something you might already know is that tube amp tubes are paired form the outside to the inside. So the inter 2 tubes are one pair and the inner two are your second pair and so on. People neglect to mention this.
I'll be around the shop (4chan) during the weekend but I'm writing this as it comes to mind so it's kinda all around. If you have questions i'll answer no problems

>>920256
So is silver solder counter-productive, with the oxidized coating you mentioned earlier?

Definitely serious about it. Actually, the reason I started this project and thread was because I'm set on building a Marshall JTM45 clone but don't want to pay TubeDepot or the Metro or Mojo the money for a kit they've put together with random parts that they're able to swap out for others before they send you. Especially when the cost could easily be cut in half just going out and buying my own components (or so I've read)..also read "it would be cost 3/4 of what they charge if you were to go out and buy your own 'all-premium' components"...whatever that means.

Bells and whistles aren't a big thing for me..maybe tremolos and reverbs eventually, nothing major. I'm ultimately wanting to make a few Marshall style amps and a Dumble style amp. Also wanting to make some stereo tube amps for people's hifi systems and turntables and whatnot.

Someone on this board mentioned tube testers, are they really worth it? I'll look into the oscilloscope and frequency generator once I feel I'm at a point where this can be something that could make me some money, or interests me enough as a hobby to the point that I can't do without.

>>920260
See it's not counter productive. Silver isn't good as a finish on connectors. As a solder it has ultra low resistance and the corrosion is on the outside or the joint so it makes no difference. But for the price difference, unless you're fixing an ultra expensive instrument used in calibration just use a thin 60/40 and some decent solder flux. You will never notice a difference.

Tube testers are trinkets

The JTM45 has somewhat changed over the years, so some transformers may not be a simple buy, but should be available as new old stock. Apart form that a simple build.
However i would try building a Pignose 7-100 fist. It's a cheap build the only part that costs a bit is the transformers (10 bucks for the pair) the rest of the components are dirt cheap and might set you back another 10 bucks. If you can get your hands some a decent case you just made 50 bucks. And you have more room to fuck up since it wont fry you or any expensive tubes to a crisp if you do fuck up. Schematics are available online, tho you might have to look a round a bit for equivalent transistors. This was my first build back before the Internet was a thing. From there i would move on to some tube preamps for headphones and things. This will get you used to working with tubes and do it somewhat cheaply and safely. Preamp tubes are cheaper than amp tubes since you only need 1-2 for a decent preamp and they burn out one at a time.
once you get comfortable with high voltage you can modify your preamp and turn it in to a decent amplifier by adding a power section to it. This is also a good little project since if you get shocked half way the next of kin will at least have a decent little preamp to show for it.
Now as to what to build it depends on what you want to get out of your build and what you can get as far as tubs go.
If you take a too big chunk out of this you might not finish it. Small fuckups add up on an amp and building it up peace by peace you'll get a bit of a hang of it.

>>920260
Tremolos and reverbs (specially spring reverbs) are a pain to fix, they can go wobbley on you in no time, and are generally hard to get right on the cheap.
the circuits are simple but unless you have a 2 channel o-scope and a F-generator you might have a hard time getting them to sound just right.

>>920089
There are some current production transformers that aren't wound in an acceptable fashion for tube audio. This is to say that many of the amps are failing in short time under proper use. I guess older transformers will occasionally hum from age and breakdown of laminating materials but this is more rare.

As far as your tone, some guitar amps utilized under value OTs which add band pass filtering by transformer saturation. Just as many others use over rated iron which will not inject a band pass into your tone.

I like switchcraft jacks because the springs are durable.
I also treat physically large ceramic capacitors as a lead dress. Both can be susceptible to stray inductance, so consideration of their layout needs to be addressed.

>>920270
>>920271
Meant to also ask - I bought the Fluke 117 and a Weller WES51. It was recommended to me that I get a Weller WTCPT and a Fluke 87.

Any of you know if either of these switches should be made?

Also, any literature on the subject that you'd recommend in-particular?

>>920319

It's a multi meter and a soldering iron, don't stress out abut it too much.

As long as your iron isn't one of those things that you burn wood with for fun, or the type that you use to solder a copper pipe you'll do fine. Might want to swap the tip from the standard point to a flat one, you don't have to, but most people seem to prefer it this way.
Same with the multimeter,if it measures voltage, current, resistance you're set for life. They have a 3% error no matter how much money you spend, and if you can keep them in the ball park calibrated you'll do fine. The rest you're getting charged for bells and whistles.
I'm sure DIY snobs will disagree.
But improve your tools as you need them. No need to get "the best thing money can buy with diamond encrusted dick rings". Once cash starts to flow it's easy to upgrade.

As a read up Hmmm, well I own a few amplifier specific books but these are in "Various versions of Easter European" so they probably won't do you any good.
The art of electronics Vol.1 and 2 are a good read cover most of the stuff you'd otherwise learn in school or the hard way. Schematic reading and most all basic circuits. You'll see after a while that all amps are pretty much the same 3 things put together and this will make your job a whole lot easier. however it's lacking in tube theory.
Most amps have service manuals witch carry basic repair guides and schematics. So if you plan to clone an amp find it's service manual you can cut a few corners this way.
Rest of my stuff is basically collage electronics books that have piled up over the years... For tube amps I dug up one from the early 60s witch still had a lot of tube theory and radio design in it.
In the later versions of the book tubes are somewhat phased out in favour of solid state components, the legacy of the vacuum tube are florescent bulbs.
These a book called circuits and tubes printed in like 1947. It's tube theory galore. so might learn from it.

>>919378
what is sears for 200

>>920302
Looking at the Pignose now, while it seems like a fun idea, I can't justify building something I know I could just pay $75 for. I definitely see where you're coming from though. Start small, move up gradually...Maybe the Marshall original 18-watter (1974x)??

Was also thinking it may be easier to start with a stereo amp, seems simpler for some reason. Something to power this awesome new turntable I got my gf for Christmas would be fun. Hifi tube amps are hard to come by these days and definitely not without their outrageous premiums.

Thoughts?

>>920354
Also, the thing that's worrying me about the Fluke 117 is that it only measures up to 600v whereas a 177 or 87v knocks it up to 1000v.

The soldering station I think I'm just being paranoid with. Not sure why - I was staring at the two when some electrical engineer just walks up and goes "that one".

Any recommendation on books as far as tube amps? Cause this--> >>920302
is just about exactly where I'm at and shit starts going over my head.

>>920522
Uff, that might be a problem see 6l6s go form 400-600V on the plate voltage. KT88 (think big marshals JCM800s) go up to 800V.
The 18 watter is in your work range. it has 12ax7s, or as the British would call them ECC84s. These have a plate of 250-300v.
and EL84s witch have the same voltage.
I don't recommend building a tube amp right off the bat. Try solid state first. yeah you can buy it for 75$ buck can you build it for less? Or are you just gonna have a pile of expensive broken parts? Don't expect it to work on your first try.

With the stereo amp you're just kinda loosing me here. See a stereo amp is just 2 amps put together side by side. 2 preamp sections 2 power sections 2 output transformers. How do you see this as being any simpler? I said build a headphone preamp witch is one power transformer a preamp tube to amplify, maybe an output transformer to match the impedance of the headphones. I didn't say build tow amps in one box. You're just digging a hole for yourself there.

The thing is you kind need to be an electrical engineer to know this stuff. No book's gonna go yeah overload the transformer Scottoe we're going warp 9 this is stuff you pick up over a few hundred circuits and amplifier designs. Since I guess you're just gonna put together clones for a few years, just stick to the schematics and you're stuff will do fine, like I said my books on tube amps are 1980 Eastern European probably based on something from Russia or the States, but not credited in the footnotes. Might want to ask around locally, like I said ask local radio amatures these guys got their shit down to earth so they'll give you the best local version of the stuff.