Tips for better file knife

>>896252
what did you cut the metal with? those deep grooves at the bevel is bad

also the bevel is too shallow, go deeper to get a proper edge angle

>>896255
Angle grinder. They actually are not that deep, the photos makes them appear deeper. The bevel extends 1/4 inch into the blade, and the final edge was make using a fixed knife hone

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i would widen the grind, add pins for the handle, maybe add a bolster, and work on the blade finish. otherwise bretty good first go

>>896344
Haha thanks! How would I go about adding pins to it? The tang of the file is 1/4 inch welds to 3/8 all thread with a. Nut

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Keep working the metal until it's smooth
Then buff with Tripoli or some other buffing compound
As others have said it needs a bolster and some pins. Epoxy alone is weak and may not hold over time
Oak has large pores. Sand up to 1200 grit then add pore filler to your stain and this will give you a glass smooth finish.
But once it's wet your hand will slip without a bolster over finger grooves

>>896439
It's not held by epoxy, all thread welded to the tang of the knife, with a nut at the end

>>896483
It needs a bolster. Since handle is bolt on I'd remove and install one.

>>896650
I will have to do that at work tommorow, I've thought about going bayonet route, since it's a straight knife

>>896483
China and Pakistan junk knives are made with a nut on the tang
Take some pride in your work
There are several utube videos to show you the proper way
Pins and epoxy

>>897424
So are professional handmade knives. I've made many of them. Granted, I don't weld on allthread, but actually tap the end of the tang. Regardless, you, sir, are a dumbass.

>>896252
You need to learn how to do heat treatment. Since you used an angle grinder, the temper from the file will be ruined already, and the remaining temper on your blade will be all over the map. Even when doing stock removal, controlling heat is ESSENTIAL. Either plan on a full treatment afterwards, or find a way to keep the metal cool enough to touch then ENTIRE time you are working on it.

Heat treatment is an entire class worth of material. Google is your friend.

Otherwise, you also need to work on polishing skills, that metal is ugly. Functional, but most ppl expect knives to be polished and pretty. Then you have some wood carving to learn for handles etc.

Don't take all that to mean it's bad. It's better then my first knife was :P

>>897563
I didn't grind hard enough hot to discolor the metal, so I don't think it lost the temper, and I know the polish is poor, but for what I'm using it for ( welding utility knife) it works great

>>897627
Files are (should be) case hardened, so the inside part is a lot softer than the outside. You may need to reharden, possibly using casenit to get it hard enough to hold an edge.

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>>897778
I slammed it on my welding table full force and this happened do you think it's hard enough?

We can't see anything from this picture. Is it bent or chipped ? Also you are asking for advice and when someone gives you one , you are making excuses why you made it so lazy. And what the fuck is welding utility knife ? Something to remove the slag? you have slag hammer for this. With this wide angle on the cutting edge you cant cut anything. You can only smash things with it. If you want to make a good knife from a file you must grind it to a much more acute angle. If you dont want to heat - treat it , you should cool it with water every 4-5 passes of the grinder. It will be a very slow process. Sorry if I am too rude.

>>898774
It is a little chipped on the blade, sorry sucky camera. The blade itself is only 3/32 wide. I held it in my hand while grinding it so I know it didn't get good enough. And I should have mentioned the welding utility knife part, I kept the file part intact on the back of the blade to file and didn't point the blade exact so I can chip slag from dual shield. Also I re polished the knife and added a hands top thing at the top so my hand won't slide off. It works really well to cut the 1/2-3/4 band that holds materials together

Better than my first knife, OP. Not having read the thread, here are some suggestions for the next project:
The most important thing in building a knife is having your supplies on hand before you start. That includes a grinding tool, (grinder, file, etc) base materials like wood and steel, and incrementally finer sandpaper.
Okay, notice the grooves along the blade of your knife? These remain because you jumped from 320 grit to 600 grit. Ideally, one would start with 320 or so and get a uniform sanding; no obvious gashes or anything. then you would move up to the very next grit size like 400. Repeat until you get to the desired shininess. It's important to sand evenly or you end up with the streaks like the ones in your knife. 600 or 800 is likely satisfactory, but I usually don't stop until I get to at least 1200.
It looks like you fitted the handle without pegs. Pegs aren't entirely necessary, especially if the blade was burnt into your handle. I don't necessarily trust epoxy-fitted handles either, but that's just me. To myself and many others, the pegs are not just functional but decorative as well. You can match the shine of the blade with stainless pegs, add some class with brass ones, or use tubes in order to create lanyard holes.
Handle-wise, I hope to see you grind a face on either side instead of leaving it round. Be sure to stain it a nice color too. In the future, be sure to use cured wood to ensure that no moisture is left in it. Down the road, the moisture leaving the wood may cause your hard work to crack down the middle.
For a challenge, I suggest making a full-tang knife where the steel can be seen all the way around the handle. The challenge there is to grind your steel and your handle material evenly with one another to create a smooth surface. Pegs are pretty much necessary in this kind of construction. You can challenge yourself by adding a bolster to the top of the handle out of a different material for flair.

>>897563
No offense, but I'd look down on any knifemaker that uses a nut to secure his handle. If nothing else, it's just plain lazy design and there are much sturdier and more appealing ways to build the thing.

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>>899319
While I may not like it personally, there are plenty of knifemakers who do, some using pretty scarily short tangs with long threaded sections. Its particularly common on things like "take-down" bowies.

a quick search of a group I'm on found this as just the most recent example:

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This
>>897424
And this
>>899319

>>897563
>>899333
Just because you can make a knife bolted together does not mean it's a well built or solid design.
They have shown to be inferior to full tang construction.
If you want a presentation pr wall hanger then do it. But if you want to use the knife as a tool go with a full tang.

>>899497
Op here, it is full tang. It's welded and it's not coming off
>>899318
Okay thanks for the advice, the knife does have faces on each side, and it added a bolster to it, also the wood is cured, but I oiled it to seal out moisture. And I do think I'll make a full knife out of something a bit larger next time so I won't have to weld it

>>897424

The author of the $50 knife shop which is one of the most famous books gets people into this hobby uses the brazed on nut exclusively and believes it is the all-around best handle construction

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>>899578
Too bad he is wrong
Will not buy hie book now
Enjoy this sunset over Lake Michigan

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>>899610
>I think I know better than some of the most highly respected experts in the world! Let me demonstrate my prejudices for everyone to see!

>Enjoy this picture of the value of my opinion:


fixed your post there.

>>899333
Christ, looking at that build makes my fingers ball up. It looks so unreliable and crude.

>>899651
No, dude. He was 100% right. In this case, there's the right way and there's the wrong way to do something. using a nut on a threaded tang is a quick out. It's like epoxying a piece f furniture together rather than using screws and nails. Will it function? Certainly. Will it last? Not reasonably.

>>899651
You mad
And this>>899333
Is not a knife, this a show piece
It's not meant to be used, it's meant to look pretty.

>>899970
While I agree with you, I would like to hear your opinion on what constitutes "the right way".

I just epoxy the tang into the handle and I've not had a problem yet. I don't believe in knives for looking at, either. The beauty in a knife is in how well it performs it's job. In my opinion, etc...

>>896252
My suggestions:
- spend more time smoothing the surface. You really gave up before the job was done. Angle grinder is fine for mass removal, but then you need to go to hand file, then a block with some coarse emory cloth or sand paper, then swap out the paper for finer grits until you get to the finish you want. If you keep going to the 4 figure grits, (1000+), it'll start getting a mirror polish. (Not that that's necessarily a good thing.)

Your edge is still serrated. I know that this is your first knife, but that's sloppy. The only thing that is preventing you from honing that thing to a beautiful edge is time and effort. So do it.

Also, power tools can fuck with the temper of the file. If the piece ever gets red hot from grinding, you might consider rigging up an oven to retemper it. That's a whole ball of wax in itself though...

Handle: It looks like your first knife. What's the butt/pomel end look like? Use another knife to give it some figure then sand it to a nice smooth finish. It doesn't need to be crazy, but a gentle swell in the palm, round the butt, (my opinion) narrow the handle near the junction with the blade. As it stands, it looks like either a prison knife or a work in progress.

I also agree with the anon who suggested widening or deepening the grind. It would be better for cutting through material.

All in all? Not a bad job, but I suggest you keep working on it. By that I mean this knife. You can still adjust the profile of the blade and the shape of the handle, and I think you'll be proud of the result in you do.

But seriously, turn on the tv and settle into a couple hours of filing and stoning that blade.

"A dull knife is the sign of a dull mind". If the edge still has teeth on it from the edge of the file... You can do better!

>>900713
And I agree with you; The beauty is in the performance. However, if it performs then one must move up on the hierarchy of needs, which if basic functionality is on the bottom, longevity is next. Then comes aesthetics. For someone like myself, a career knifemaker, the goal is to create a tool you can hit with a hammer and not have it break. Unrealistic, yes, but unrealistic goals create impressive results. It needs to be able to be pushed past whatever its owner would realistically ask it to take on. This, to me, means no moving parts. Having a nut on the tang counts as a moving part. Not just that, but the tang being welded onto the knife blade presents other problems. The weld could break, the tang is an inferior tool steel, the nut could come loose, and the tang itself could rust inside the handle. (Big problem if the knife is used regularly.) Besides that, a loose nut will mean a loose handle. One could weld it, sure, but they risk slag-spraying their handle. Further, why have a nut if not to disassemble your knife for inspection later? It would be self-defeating, and therefore pointless.
In anything, the fewer the components, the stronger the tool. If you can boil a knife down to a blade, a handle/handle scales, some pins and perhaps a guard, you won't have a tool that fails you so long as the hand that assembles them is practiced enough.
As for epoxy, so long as the handle hole exactly fits the tang then it's viable. The Nepalese tend to burn their tangs into the handle for an exact fit, followed by a sap epoxy to keep it in place. Some still pin it in place however. My reference to epoxy applies more to epoxying a rocking chair together or something.
In summary, the "right way" is the way without shortcuts. Welding a tang on is the answer to not having already made a proper tang. Likewise, epoxying a chair together is the answer to not having been prepared and owning the fittings for said chair. It's a quick fix expected to last a lifetime.

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I'm going to post some shit because this thread needs a dose of stupid repellant. I mean proper vocabulary.

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Hidden tang blades, up to and including full 2-handed swords, have existed since the Iron Age was a thing. They are perfectly acceptable, strong, worthy handles. In the old days, they were peened over the pommel instead of being threaded into it, if that makes a difference to anyone.

I've made probably about a dozen knives at a hobbyist level, using both handle types. Full tang is much easier to make, just drill some holes and pin it. However, the hidden tang is perfectly strong if done right. It's easy to do wrong though. Welding on some all thread is most definately one of the wrong ways, it creates a weak point at the weld site. Otherwise, the weak point is at the bolster where it narrows.

A proper hidden tang will be wider at the bolster with gracefully curved corners, that tapers down towards the pommel. The pommel should be directly attached to the tang, either by threading or peening. A small strip of leather that the pommel is tightened against will keep it from working loose, as it compresses and forms to the pommel and holds on to it. Or you could use epoxy, if you wanted. This design will be strong enough for use as any kind of bladed tool, although perhaps not for a crowbar, but if you're using a knife that way you deserve to break it.

>>902241
Also, I just noticed the pic I posted happens to have a nut on the pommel, presumably welded. Fuck that lazy shit. Drill and tap the pommel itself, you don't want any secondary joints that might fail.

>>900716
I polished the knife a lot more and added a bolster, the edge does not have any serrations on it. I left the file on the back edge of the knife so I could use the back as a file. I'm gonna Make a new grip for it soon but right not the grip is ovaled. And how would to suggest re tempering it.>>902241
I'm and experienced welder. There is complete penetration and the grain of the steel is perfectly aligned . I know the knife doesn't look the best yet, but that weld is not gonna break

>>902274
Give it a quick file test first to see if you need to. Along the cutting edge, gently run a fresh file along it at an angle that won't damage it too much. If it bits, it's softened and you probably need to re-harden it. If it skates off the metal, it's probly fine. Very unscientific test, but can be used to ballpark. Also decide if maybe "close enough" is just plain good enough for you and what you want to use this particular knife for. Heat treating is a bit of an undertaking.

Heat treatment involves doing a full heat-quench-temper cycle. You need a way to heat the full length of the blade to the austenite stage (test hot blade with magnet, should not stick) with an even heat, then a quenching medium. I use vegetable oil with good results. Final step is tempering, re-heating the blade to a controlled temperature (300-400 deg usually) to remove internal stresses. There are many details to this process, google an overview and come back for specifics if needed.

What about forging a knife from a RR spike or a length of rebar?

>>902557
waste of time.

Railroad spikes are defined by law for their carbon content, stupulated by the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association. (A.R.E.M.A.), Section 2.1.3 of the railway specifications.
That content is from 0.20 to 0.30% carbon content - nothing even close to the content to make a proper knife blade from.

Rebar is worse. that's construction steel, which is specified as 0.18% carbon content steel

Neither is worth spending a second on. Go to Aldo Bruno, the New Jersey Steel Baron ( newjerseysteelbaron.com ) and buy a proper carbon steel - 1085, 1090, or the likes instead.

>>902557
As long as you are doing it to practice technique, or make as decoration and nothing more it's just fine. If you want to make an actual knife for actually cutting actual things, see >>902562

>>902410
Just skated off, interestedly, it's harder than my hf machete which now has a 1/16 gouge

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>>902608
Also pic of polish, not finished yet but better

>>902601
Yeah, it would just be for practice. I am putting together a forge this weekend and was just looking for things I can do for free or for cheap to see what metalworking is like. Then maybe if all goes well progressing to something a bit more substantial.

>>902719
Practicing your grinds and basic shaping on cheaper stuff isn't a half bad idea. Heat treatment is a whole other story though.

Bed frame/rails are pretty cheap if you find busted ones out at a flea market or something and it's easy enough to cut with a cheap angle grinder. Not a band source for stock removal practice. That and you can always use the steel for other projects or smaller tools where edge retention isn't key.

>>902988
Now with this thread being about file knives I thought I'd ask this too; what is the carbon content of the average file and do they make decent blades? I'm sure those are present in my junk pile back home.

>>903003
Old school ones like you find in rusty buckets on grampa's farm are typically 1095 or a similar high carbon, simple alloy.

Modern ones are completely unpredictable, they could be tool steel, to traditional 1095, or merely case hardened. You'd have to check with the manufacturer.

Some make good blades, some don't. All of the old rusty ones I scavenged made good ones, some of the ones I got off the Harbor Freight shelf did and some never hardened. So it's really hit or miss.

They made good cheap practice when I started heat treating, but it's a bit wracking when you can't tell if it's soft because you screwed up or cause it's just the material. Overall, I'd say they make great practice/hobby/wtfever knives, but as soon as you start getting serious, buy some graded alloys from a reliable source.

>>903003
There are two things that can give you a rough idea of how much carbon is in a steel really quick.

Spark testing is the easier of the two. Get your piece on a bench grinder and see how much it sparks, how much they flower at the end and how wide it sprays. The wider and longer the spray and the further it flowers out, the more carbon present.

The more surefire method is bringing it up to non magnetic in the forge, water quenching then applying shearing force like whacking it with a hammer over a table edge once it's cool. The more carbon, the cleaner it snaps off. Mild steels just bend. You can also examine the grain and get a better idea of what you're working with.

>>903019
Again thank you very much.