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Hydroponics General

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Just started a hydroponics experiment in my porch, i'll be updating weekly with its progress.

My setup consists of 4 deep water culture 5 gallon buckets housing 1 pepper plant and 3 tomatoes,
for those of you that dont know, deep water culture is a way to grow plants with the roots submerged in a nutrient solution with an air stone aerating the water.

the pepper is a red bell pepper variety, the tomato on the left is a full size tomato and the two on the right are cherry tomatoes.

i'm using a 4-18-38 nutrient solution plus calcium nitrate (16-0-0) which bumps my solution to 20-18-38 plus epsom salt for best results,
i chose this specific hydroponic fertilizer after watching a few videos on youtube from a guy called bobby, the man is your go to guy when it comes to hydro, he tested this fertilizer extensively with pretty crazy results:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQzgMve9hoA

the fertilizer was purchased on ebay premixed to the correct ratio:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydroponics-Nutrient-Fertilizer-Tomato-Vegetable-Formula-2-Pounds-20-18-38-NPK-/171269107921?pt=Fertilizer_Soil_Amendments&hash=item27e06f30d1

since this fertilizer comes in a powder form it lasts for a LOT longer then the liquid nutrient solutions that come in a bottle, this 2 pound bag lasts for around 160 gallons of water.

the pic related was taken today after the plants have been in the solutions for 24 hours, as you can see, the tomato plant on the right is having a tough time, this is my fault, since its bucket was bigger then the others i decided to add more fertilizer but instead of measuring it out i just eye balled it and ended up with a solution that is too strong, i've since diluted it, we'll see if the plant bounces back.

(only had one air pump when taking this picture, i've since added another one so all 4 plants are getting aeration)
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>>640840
this is the second setup, 3 heads of romain lettuce in a long garden pot with no holes at the button and with a foam cover with holes for the plants on top.

the lettuce is sitting in the same nutrient solution but this time i'm going with the kratky method of growing hydroponics, this method requires no air stone, you just let the roots sit in the nutrient solution and forget about them, the plants drink up the water so the level drops and exposes some of the roots to air, since the roots are also getting longer they are always in the water but also getting air.

this method works better for growing leafy greens then tomatoes but should work for both.

although these heads of lettuce might look big in the picture they are actually quite small and young, just a little bigger then my fist.


i will be updating on my progress in a few days, i hope this thread doesn't die by then.
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>kratky method

sounds simple enough, if this works i might try it.
>>
You have my interest. See you in a couple days. Sometime this summer I plan to build myself a nutrient film setup for strawberries and maybe some mint.
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>>640854

you dont need anything for mint

seriously, just throw a loose mint plant in your backyard and enjoy your mojitos in a month
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>>640854
>nutrient film setup
muh nigga, i've seen great results with that setup, and it looks really cool, just takes a little work to build, i'm lazy so i went with DWC.
>>
Longitude close to Stockholm with a balcony facing south. Is it too late for cucumbers?

DWC and let it climb along the railing.
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>>640854
>mint
>in hydro

dont do this, it will clog up the living hell out of your system with runners.
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>>640859
you have cold weather up there no? a south facing balcony is best in your case, it should get full sunlight, does it?
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>>640862
It should. I'm going to buy some seeds tomorrow and order a pump and then I can join in in your future updates.

Pic is my ugly ebb and flow indoors arugula and salad.
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>>640865
at this time of year and with your location i would strongly advise against buying seeds and instead trying to find seedlings at your local plant nursery, i dont think you have the time to start seeds..
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>>640854
Mint is the biggest piece of shit plant, fuck mint, fuck it good, that shit never stops growing/raping everything in its path.
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>>640870
actually i've been growing mint and chives in the same long pot for the past year and somehow the chive is just fine with the mint, dont get me wrong, the mint is coming out of everywhere, but the chives just keeps going...
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Well its been an interesting couple of days, same evening i made the thread i set up a bird net to cover the tomatoes so the birds dont eat the leaves (they do that sometimes) and when i came back from work the following day i found the net had come loose and was crushing the tomatoes, i feared they would not recover but as you can see in the pic related they did and then some, also the over-dosed tomato on the right also seem to have made a full recovery,

i took this picture today, this is 3 days worth of growth since the pic in the OP, so far 0 maintenance is required.

if anyone is wondering both air pumps on use 10 Watts of power together which comes out to $1.2/month.
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>>642131
Your electricity costs $0.16/kw?
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>>642137
yes it does, is that high?
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>>642131
The lettuce is also showing some good progress, but it also had a hard few days because of me,
primarily the lettuce on the right most side, you can tell from the picture that it's not as big as the other two, what happened is that when i was setting up the tomato bird net i accidentally bumped the white plastic that hoses the lettuce and the left one popped up from its hole just a tiny bit,

that tiny bit was enough to keep the roots from getting enough water and when i came back home that evening it looked dead as a door nail, i had no hope of it recovering, but to my surprise after i placed it back in the hole it came back to life overnight.
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>>642139
27c/kwh here. going up to AUD40c in a months time.
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>>642137
Where do you live?
Here in Ohio its $0.05-0.10 depending on if you want to use the power from the reactor or buy into various solar offsets.
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>>642143
everything in kangaroo land is stupid expensive though isn't it?
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>>642142
As you can see the root systems of the 3 lettuce head are developing nicely with the exception of the right lettuce head which i suspect is due to its close encounter with death.


i have to say that this method (kratky) really is a set it and forget it, there is really nothing you need to do after the initial set up.
>>
more information on how you went from seeds to your current state please.

what did you sprout the seeds in? how much nutrients? how do you prep your solution?

I am utterly hopeless at this. I bought a little aeroponics bucket kit but everything goes mouldy.
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>>642155
well i originally intended to start everything from seed and i did but i started everything before the hydroponic fertilizer i ordered had arrived and had to use a liquid fertilizer that is meant for soil to start the seeds until the real stuff would get here,

that didnt turn out so well because the shipping got really delayed and so i had to keep the seedlings in the crappy fertilizer for longer then intended,
shortly after the seeds sprout they would start looking sick and then die off, by the time the real hydro fertilizer showed up everything was too far gone,
i had to drive down to my local nursery and buy the seedlings you see in the op.

if i had the good fertilizer from the start i would have used a half strength solution and start the seeds in rock-wool cubes like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAYpn2Md9eA


>pic related, my seed starting box
>2 10W LED bulbs
>1 40W CFL bulb
>CPU fan
>>
Is this for anybody to post their hydroponics pr0n or just you? Got something cooking up in the greenhouse right now that I know will end in disaster.
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>>642199
Anyone can post whatever they want, this is a hydroponics general thread as i stated in the OP, i'll just be updating on my own project every few days, but everyone is welcome to post, in fact i'm interested to see what you guys are up to, by all means post away.
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>>642209
bumping so thread doesn't die before the update tomorrow.
>>
bumping cool thread
>>
If you guys wanna do this on your porch, get one of these socket adaptors. I don't have a wall socket outside, but i have lights.

>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301158782293?lpid=82

works wonders
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>>642209
the nutrients is probably where I was going wrong then. I was given a bottle of green goo called "bud grow". I am fully legit growing lettuce. its full of shitty dye. probably a B mixture so full of things to stress the plants and grow shitty plants if used for things that will never grow fruit.

I will get some crystal form nutes and titrate them myself.
>>
anyone use their piss and water to grow plants? acquiring many papers and publications on it.
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>>643406
Many people do. It really doesn't require anything farther than a quick google search, and a look up on wiki to learn why.

Urine contains Urea, which is a nitrogen-containing compound. Urea is used commercially as a nitrogen fertilizer.

The problem is urine contains other things, so it needs to be diluted before use. I've heard figures from 1:10 to 1:30 urine to water.
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>>643413
plants dont use urea, they use nitrate, which is what urea breaks down into but only with the help of bacteria, thats why it is recommended to use it as a soil fertilizer.
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This fertilizer is like liquid gold i tell you, i've never had results like these with soil container growing,

The lettuce heads a growing like crazy, the left most head is fucking huge and the middle one is only slightly behind, the right head is smaller then the other two but that is due to it nearly drying up a few days ago because of my fiddling around.
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>>643672
When i bought the lettuce seedlings they came in a pack of 6, so i used 3 of them in the hydro set up, and the other 3 i planted in a large soil pot, because i had to wait for the fertilizer to arrive in the mail i ended up planting the soil heads a week and a half before starting the hydro grow.

look at the size/color difference between the soil lettuce that had over a weeks head start and the hydro lettuce.
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>>643674
which one would you rather eat? i know who i'd pick..
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>>643668
Read my post again.
I never suggested plants used Urea, I simply said that Urea is used as a nitrogen fertilizer. Naturally present bacteria in the soil will break it down.

>>643672
Lettuce is almost entirely water. Are you really that shocked that something that's almost entirely water, and has a constant supply of various nutrients and water grows quickly?

Also, I highly doubt the accuracy of your comparison, as you haven't mentioned anything about the soil quality, how often you water it, etc.

In general your posts come across as hydroponics propaganda, and that's making me trust you less and less. No-one actually says shit like:

>which one would you rather eat? i know who i'd pick..
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>>643700
aww you didnt get to the part where he starts advertising his website like the kreg jig guy.
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>>643700
>Lettuce is almost entirely water. Are you really that shocked that something that's almost entirely water, and has a constant supply of various nutrients and water grows quickly?

Yes, i really am surprised at the speed this thing is growing, but you're implying that not all leafy greens are almost entirely water.. and yet they all have different growing speeds..

>Also, I highly doubt the accuracy of your comparison, as you haven't mentioned anything about the soil quality, how often you water it, etc.

my bad, i forgot, the growing bed is a mix of 10% compost, 60% potting soil and 30% dirt from the yard, more then enough for lettuce if you ask me.


>In general your posts come across as hydroponics propaganda, and that's making me trust you less and less.


just a reminder that you are posting in a hydroponics general, and as far as propaganda goes, thats not what i'm trying to do here, its just my first time growing anything hydroponically and i'm a little overwhelmed by how well everything is coming along so far, just thought i'd share.

>No-one actually says shit like: which one would you rather eat? i know who i'd pick..

i admit i got a little carried away there.
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>>643703
i didnt advertized any web sites, all i did was link back to the ebay action where i bought my fertilizer and to a youtube video of a well renowned grower that has tested it extensively and because of him i decided to buy it,
i only posted it in the op so no one has to ask later in the thread where i bought it, how much it cost, how do i know it will work, how much do i use etc etc.

this thread is going to be up for as long as this grow continues, i thought i should put up the info upfront.
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anyways,
Moving on to the tomatoes, as you can see i've set up a bird net to keep them from munching on my lettuce/tomato leaves, to do this i had to move the tomatoes around and the order is not the same as in the previous pictures, the big tomato is now on the far right, the 2 cherry tomatoes in the middle and the pepper on the left.

up until now the tomatoes had no support and because of being in a small net pot wasn't really keeping them tightly secured they were bending around a bit too much in the wind, i've tied them up today so they should be fine from now on.

aside from that they are growing like champs, in fact ever since they went in the hydro new stems that form are actually thicker then the main stem they started with, looks a bit odd but i guess that means they like the fertilizer mix..


strangely the only under achiever is the pepper plant..
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>>643717
Peppers like dry, hot conditions. Not surprising.
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>>643715
I'm enjoying this thread. I was just fishing for a reaction with
>>643700
because of his intense unwarranted suspicion.
>hydroponics propaganda
>i KNOW what you're up to!!!1
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>>643726
that cant be the problem here, if you look at the bottom of the picture in >>643717
thats a pepper plant in soil that is doing just great, i guess it must be the nutrient solution.. maybe the PH is off...

FYI for anyone thinking about starting something like this, i started this grow blind with no PH meter and no TDS meter, both cost $7 each on ebay, i just remembered i needed them late, the PH & TDS meter will arrive in a few days, then i'll know exactly whats going on.

since this fertilizer will probably last me for the next 10 years or so its not a bad idea to invest $14 in some measurement gear.


>guess what fruit this is
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>>643746
Water will cool the plants, soil holds heat better... And you're ignoring the dry part of my answer.
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>>643753
oh i thought you meant dry air conditions.. if it likes dry growing medium then its a problem..
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>>643746
>guess what fruit this is

Goji?
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>>643762
spot on, didnt think someone would recognize it so quickly..
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>>643764
I know it's 4chan, but I try not to talk out my arse...
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>>643708
No, I never implied that. At all. A lot of the variance comes from bulk and variety. Lettuces, for example, with thick stems and that are going to take longer to grow as a result of bulk.

See, I'd have probably used 100% compost, or maybe 50/50 with the potting soil if I was concerned about density. Compost tend to be light and water-retentive as it is.

I know, but when people say things that sounds like adwhoring, it's kind of hard to view it any other way.

Honestly I'd just do soil. It's easier. You just plant, water occasionally, ignore. No need for pumps, and tubes, and vessels, and aeration, etc. Lettuce doesn't need a lot of soil to begin with.

That said, if you want to hydroponic to being with, then lettuce is a good way to go, especially for your first experiences with it.
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>>643927
>See, I'd have probably used 100% compost, or maybe 50/50 with the potting soil if I was concerned about density. Compost tend to be light and water-retentive as it is.

100% compost sounds like over kill to me, the only so much a plant can nitrate a plant can use, after that you're just sacrificing aeration in the soil, my compost bad is very dense, i wouldn't be able to grow anything in 100% of this stuff, plus the soil mix i used already contains compost and is by itself a very good mix, i've used this brand in the past to grow tomatoes to maturity, i just through in some compost as an extra kick.

>Honestly I'd just do soil. It's easier. You just plant, water occasionally, ignore. No need for pumps, and tubes, and vessels, and aeration, etc. Lettuce doesn't need a lot of soil to begin with.

but thats just not true, i've grown plenty in soil and unless you have a back yard where your plants can handle missing a watering or two or some nutrient they need by digging deep underground and finding it they simply wont survive in a container unless they have optimal conditions.

and in term of convenience, you need to water regularly, you cant ignore the plants because when growing in soil there are tons of soil based diseases that can inflict the plant and catching these things early is what keeps them alive, and at least when growing lettuce hydroponically is concerned there is absolutely no need for tubes/pumps/aeration of any kind, if you notice my lettuce container has no tubes going into it, even with tomatoes that are much more picky you still dont have to use a pump/tubes, it will still grow although produce fewer tomatoes.
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>>644029
Except 100% compost is a frequent recommendation, and things grow very well in it.

Properly degraded compost is light and water-retentive. If your compost does not fit this description, you've probably done something wrong. The nutrition in the compost is sort of like a slow release fertilizer.

Potting soil generally doesn't contain either soil or compost.

Except it is absolutely true. If you can't be assed to spent 5 minutes watering your garden every day (really only needed on hotter/windier days), chances are that's because you're lazy. Decent soil will have all the nutrients they need and retain water well. Your point is invalid.

Healthy plants are pretty disease, and even pest resistant. Hydroponically grown plants can be plagued by many pests or diseases as well.

And great, you now have standing water filled with wonderful nutrients for other things to grow in.

Hydroponics is fine, and has advantages, but those advantages come at a cost.

And frankly, you come across as ignorant about soil-based growing to begin with.
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>>644264
>Except 100% compost is a frequent recommendation, and things grow very well in it.

incorrect, i've grown tomatoes in 50% compost last year and they had nice leafy growth but thats about it, they did not produce a single eatable tomato, during the growth period they dropped a considerable amount flowers and when a tomato did take, it would develop blossom end rot even though i supplemented calcium,
the plants were watered regularly with an automated drip hose every morning, i later found out that they had nitrogen poisoning from too much compost.

>Properly degraded compost is light and water-retentive. If your compost does not fit this description, you've probably done something wrong. The nutrition in the compost is sort of like a slow release fertilizer.

i bought a bag of commercially made compost, the best i could find from a local farm that knows what its doing.

>Potting soil generally doesn't contain either soil or compost.

the potting soil bag i got had the amount of soil to compost ratio listed on the bag in %

>Except it is absolutely true. If you can't be assed to spent 5 minutes watering your garden every day (really only needed on hotter/windier days), chances are that's because you're lazy. Decent soil will have all the nutrients they need and retain water well. Your point is invalid.

how presumptuous of you to assume that i'm too lazy to water my plants every day, cant be assed? some of us have a 9-6 job, and even with that job i still manage to water all of my soil growing plants every morning.
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>>644264

>Healthy plants are pretty disease, and even pest resistant. Hydroponically grown plants can be plagued by many pests or diseases as well.

i didnt say hydroponics are disease or pest free, but unlike the soil plants normally grow in, a hydroponic solution (specifically the one i'm using) contains very little bacteria if at all, this might be specific to my formula but the addition of epsom salt to the solution prevents the growth of most molds/bacteria.

even when it comes to pests, some of them reside in the very soil the plant is growing in, hydro eliminates at least some of them.

>And great, you now have standing water filled with wonderful nutrients for other things to grow in.

again, the combination of epsom salt and pitch black darkness prevents most things from growing.

>Hydroponics is fine, and has advantages, but those advantages come at a cost.
>And frankly, you come across as ignorant about soil-based growing to begin with.

i admit that the cost of the initial set up is higher but its more then worth it considering the amount of control you get over the growing process, not having to worry about under/over watering, not having to worry about root rot, not having to wonder if your plant is getting everything it needs,
with hydro i know exactly what the plant is getting and how much of it, i also know exactly how much of it its actually using up, plus everything you grow with is re-usable.

i wont go as far as to call you ignorant but it seems to me like you tried soil growing and it "just worked" so you question the validity of anything else.
>>
Is hydroponics cost effective? The start-up and maintenance costs seem so high compared to what's being grown.
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>>644991
It really depends on the type of system, the size of the system, and what you are doing with the system. It can be a money sink or a money maker. It can be near $0 cost or tons of money.

Another one to check out is Aquaponics. It involves a plants, water, and fish cycle. It's pretty good, but a little more work than just hydroponics.

Check out the gardening thread in /out/: >>>/out/318217

>>644933
>they had nice leafy growth but thats about it, they did not produce a single eatable tomato,

Indicative of way too much nitrogen. Was the compost 100% completely composted? That normally takes 2-3 years under normal conditions. There's "compost" and there's "aged compost". The later being the one you use for planting and the former you don't use. Just like the difference between "manure" and "aged manure".
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>>644991
no.
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>>644933
No, it's completely correct. You're either a troll, or ignorant. If your compost is too rich in nitrogen, that's a personal problem.

If your compost is not light and water-retentive than whoever you bought it from did not know what they were doing, or simply didn't care.

Most potting soils I've found are nutritionally empty combinations of peat, vermiculite, etc.

If you aren't lazy then worrying about watering your hydroponics isn't really a factor.

So you work 9 hours a day? You do know some of us work 12 hour days every day of the week, right?
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>>644934
No.

Also.

Nutritionally rich soil + Good drainage + Drip Irrigation + Timer = Nutritionally empty soil + Good drainage + Drip Irrigation + Timer + Regular fertilization = Effectively the same thing as hydroponics but with soil.

Every complaint you've had can be remedied without hydroponics.

And no, hydroponics is a system where you buy nutrition, and then remove it from the system entirely. Decent soil-based growing doesn't really require much buying of nutrition, but also retains the majority of that nutrition.
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>>645029
>No, it's completely correct. You're either a troll, or ignorant. If your compost is too rich in nitrogen, that's a personal problem.

Thats the fucking problem, there's no way to know ahead of time how much nitrogen there is in the compost, soil growing is inaccurate bullshit.

also
>trolling
>on /diy/

please.

>If your compost is not light and water-retentive than whoever you bought it from did not know what they were doing, or simply didn't care.

it was water retentive, but it wasn't light when compared to the soil mix.

>Most potting soils I've found are nutritionally empty combinations of peat, vermiculite, etc.

this is one of the few i then.

>If you aren't lazy then worrying about watering your hydroponics isn't really a factor.

it isn't a question of laziness, watering everything is time consuming.

>So you work 9 hours a day? You do know some of us work 12 hour days every day of the week, right?

Do you work 12 hours everyday? do you also take care of your garden while working 12 hours everyday?

not that it matters because you completely missed my point.
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>>645094
No, the problem is you're an idiot. You can test soil quickly using at-home kits ,or send it off for a proper analysis. the at-home kits are ridiculously cheap, and will reveal nitrogen concentrations.
Blaming your ignorance on the method itself is childish.

Soil mixes are light because they contain things like perlite and vermiculite, as well as peat, etc. However, actual soil in most places with a lot of growth is nearly 100% compost.

Watering things isn't that time consuming

No, see, I didn't miss your point. Your point was just a shit excuse, as is everything you've said. Stop displacing blame for your inadequacies.
>>
>>645030

>Nutritionally rich soil + Good drainage + Drip Irrigation + Timer = Nutritionally empty soil + Good drainage + Drip Irrigation + Timer + Regular fertilization = Effectively the same thing as hydroponics but with soil.

incorrect,
both with good soil and shitty soil you still require a timer/drip irrigation and you still have soil based diseases and pests to think about, growing anything in the kratky method hydroponics requires no irrigation drip or otherwise, no pumps, no aeration and no intervention, just a bucket with water and fertilizer that has to be replenished once a month assuming you're using a 5 gallon bucket.

>And no, hydroponics is a system where you buy nutrition, and then remove it from the system entirely. Decent soil-based growing doesn't really require much buying of nutrition, but also retains the majority of that nutrition.

unless you have an infinite supply of good soil you're going to have to buy more of it at some point, you'll also have no idea when the soil has run dry of nutrients, might happen mid grow, then you'd have to either scrap the plant or buy some fertilizer.

if anything hydro saves you a whole lot of WATER, think how much water is wasted when growing in soil, the only water you lose in hydro is what the plant takes up.

i dont know how much soil/compost costs where you live but the fertilizer i bought is not one of those liquid kinds that are 80%-90% water, i got the pure powder form that is 100% fertilizer, for $15 i got a 2lb bag that i can grow 120 heads of lettuce with, i dare you to do the same with $15 worth of soil.
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>>645108
>No, the problem is you're an idiot. You can test soil quickly using at-home kits ,or send it off for a proper analysis. the at-home kits are ridiculously cheap, and will reveal nitrogen concentrations, Blaming your ignorance on the method itself is childish.

>sending a sample for analysis
time consuming and it cant be cheap, why even bring it up?

>at-home kits are ridiculously cheap, and will reveal nitrogen concentrations.
ok, i test my soil and find nitrogen to be too high and phosphorus too low, what now? go buy more stuff to balance it out?


>Watering things isn't that time consuming

it is when you have a lot to water, especially when you do it manually with a watering can.

>No, see, I didn't miss your point. Your point was just a shit excuse, as is everything you've said. Stop displacing blame for your inadequacies.

my point wasn't an excuse at all, you called me lazy for want to save the time/trouble of watering everything every morning,
i pointed to the fact that i dont have the time for because i leave for work every morning, the amount of hours i work in a day is irrelevant, therefore you missed my point by stating that some of us work 12 hours everyday.


it would be nice if you were able to compose a post without name calling, there is no need to be upset.
>>
>>645140
>ok, i test my soil and find nitrogen to be too high and phosphorus too low, what now? go buy more stuff to balance it out?

You're buying stuff to run your hydroponics. Probably far more stuff than most people.

It's not liking digging in a bit of blood & bone is expensive or difficult, and most people know how to rotate their crops so they balance out anyway.
>>
>>645116
Your method is also inefficient, and requires you to add nutrients to the system.

No, see, good soil will not "run out" of nutrients. It will gradually deplete. Over years. It doesn't just stop at some point. On top of that, good soil is constantly replenished as a secondary result of other affairs. There's no need to every but soil, or fertilizer.

Hydro does save water. I wonder how much in arid climates, but then again, in lush climates water isn't in plentiful, as it is where I live. And the water lost into soil ends up growing other things unintentionally, which can be composted to improve your growing soil.

Easy. Buy 1/2 a cubic yard of compost, mix into existing soil, spread lettuce seeds. You can grow multiple crops before you have to worry about nutrient depletion. 120 heads of lettuce don't take up a lot of room. I could grow over 300 heads of lettuce simultaneously with my somewhat small soil-based garden.

I don't know if you're here trying to whore out hydroponics, or if you genuinely believe that hydroponics is this amazing method of growing plants, but... you're wrong?

I mean, I'm not against hydroponics by any means, but I'm tired of the elitism and the ignorance. No, hydroponics is not better than soil. It's just different. As I said, it has advantages, and disadvantages.

If it's what you prefer, great, but don't go around telling people who don't know any better nonsense you believe because of your own ignorance.
>>
>>645140
>time consuming and it cant be cheap, why even bring it up?
because it's an effective method that resolves pretty much all ignorance about soil quality? The very problem the person I responded to raised? I also offered a cheaper alternative.

>ok, i test my soil and find nitrogen to be too high and phosphorus too low, what now? go buy more stuff to balance it out?
I don't see how this is any different than going out and buying nutrients as you have to for hydroponics, so I don't get your point. Hell, people doing hydroponics have to buy new nutrient regularly. Properly maintained soil will need minimal amendment after being properly balanced.

And my point was that you DO have time for it. People who work more than you make time. Not being able to make time for things is almost always an excuse.
>>
>>645140
no joke but my uncle could tell soil ppm nitrogen by tasting it. he was scary close and was never off by more than 5ppm
>>
>>645145
>You're buying stuff to run your hydroponics. Probably far more stuff than most people.

A bucket, fertilizer, gravel and a net pot, even a regular pot with some holes cut in the sides will work, that's it.

>It's not liking digging in a bit of blood & bone is expensive or difficult,

just as easy as putting some fertilizer in water, if soil is not easier/cheaper then whats the point?

>>645147

>Easy. Buy 1/2 a cubic yard of compost, mix into existing soil
>existing soil

i grow in pots on my porch, i have soil when i buy it, and how much does 1/2 a cubic yard of compost cost?

>I don't know if you're here trying to whore out hydroponics, or if you genuinely believe that hydroponics is this amazing method of growing plants

i'm not trying to whore out anything, everything i tried growing in hydro so far has turned out better and was less of a hassle.

>No, hydroponics is not better than soil. It's just different. As I said, it has advantages, and disadvantages.

i never said hydro was the be all end all, i recognize it's disadvantages but for someone that doesn't have the space/time i think its a better alternative to soil.

>don't go around telling people who don't know any better nonsense you believe because of your own ignorance.

i didn't say anything about hydro that wasn't based in fact, people can make up their own mind.

>>645151
>because it's an effective method that resolves pretty much all ignorance about soil quality?

its irrelevant because no hobbyist grower would send a soil sample to a lab, i do however acknowledge the test kit as a good solution.

>I don't see how this is any different than going out and buying nutrients as you have to for hydroponics

exactly, it not.

>people doing hydroponics have to buy new nutrient regularly

i'll have to buy more fertilizer in about 5 years.

>And my point was that you DO have time for it.

i have time because i make it, doesn't mean i don't need it for other things, if i can save some i will.
>>
>>645172
Fertilizer isn't a one time cost.

Soil growing... wait, none of that. The only thing you need is seeds/plants. Possibly need to amend your soil, but not necessarily.

Soil is easier/cheaper if you do it right is my point.

>i grow in pots on my porch, i have soil when i buy it, and how much does 1/2 a cubic yard of compost cost?
That's your problem, not mine. And not much, although it depends where you live. Here it's around $15-20.

>but for someone that doesn't have the space/time
>space
Hydroponics takes up more space than growing in soil. It really only wins out on space in a few conditions, which can be replicated by soil anyway.

>its irrelevant because no hobbyist grower would send a soil sample to a lab, i do however acknowledge the test kit as a good solution.
Your lack of investment in your hobbies does not define what others would do. Personally, I agree that I wouldn't either, but it might be worth it for people who do A LOT of gardening, especially when moving, since they won't have much idea of the soil condition.

>i'll have to buy more fertilizer in about 5 years.
I'm assuming you're the 2 lb kid, who said it could grow 120 heads of lettuce. 120 heads of lettuce is not 5 years. At that rate you might as well not even grow plants, and just go do other shit. As far as 5 years though, that's still regularly. You've just bought 5 years worth instead of what you need now. It really doesn't change the game.

How you spend time is important. If something isn't worth your time, it's not worth doing at all.
>>
>>642142
What are the rock things in your flower pots?
>>
I want to have a hydro lab with plants growing in hyperbaric chambers with 5 hour 1500ppm CO2 levels and 1 hour venting cycles. I am researching which LEDs to use, I'm mainly convinced about red and blue but I'm interested in infrared leds as well.

I'd probably use 55 gallon drums.

Since I'll have co2 I'll probably use it for diy supercritical extraction.
>>
>>645367
also interested in knowing ideal temperature and humidity levels. 90 degrees Fahrenheit seems to be agreeable. Light breeze helps I hear.

Soil interests me. I was wondering what chemical compounds work well with hydroponics. I've seen different pellets.

Will be germinating in coconut husks.
>>
>>645175
>Fertilizer isn't a one time cost.
i know its not, but it also isn't something i need to go buy frequently.

>The only thing you need is seeds/plants.

Nope, pots dont fall out of the sky you know, i hope i dont need to point this out this far down into the argument but i've been comparing hydro growing to soil CONTAINER growing, i agree 100% that if you have the space to plants in the ground you have a much easier time and probably cheaper too compared to hydro.

>That's your problem, not mine.

but this argument is about soil container growing vs hydro.

>Hydroponics takes up more space than growing in soil.

now i'm sure you thought i was comparing hydro to ground growing, i wasn't, i was comparing to container growing which hydro takes less space to do.

>I'm assuming you're the 2 lb kid

Yes.

>kid

No.

>who said it could grow 120 heads of lettuce.

23 grams of powder fertilizer mixes with 4 gallons of water to make a balanced solution, those 4 gallons will grow 3 full size heads of lettuce in about a month depending on the variety.

2lb = 908 grams = 119 lettuce heads.

>120 heads of lettuce is not 5 years

it is when you grow ~20 heads or so per season

>At that rate you might as well not even grow plants

What? unless i go open a farm dedicated to growing i should just quit? do you realize how you sound? you just told everyone that grows something in their back yard or porch to just quit.

>You've just bought 5 years worth instead of what you need now.

5 years worth costs $15 and is the smallest bag you can get.

>>645317
just some cover stone so the soil doesn't dry up too quickly.

>>645367
>LEDs

these look great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoBde8tTxcw
>>
>>645375
I like that hydroponics appear to be a set and forget it sort of deal. With soil you have to worry about pests, disease, soil amendations, mulching, fertilizer, and watering. I could switch to drop irrigation, but you still have all the rest to worry about, and if I'm already spending money on the drip irrigation it doesn't seem like much more work to go to hydroponics.

You have impressive lettuce for planting on an apartment balcony. How often and when do you water the plain container lettuce?
>>
>>645375
You don't need pots to grow in soil. YOUR limitations are completely irrelevant to a discussion of the topic in general. Even so, containers are highly variable in cost. For example, I can get access to 3-5 gallon containers for free without any extra effort, and chances are you get containers that are suitable from other expenses. For example, a container some pie I bought came in is doing well for growing some lettuce for me.

And no, I'm arguing soil vs. hydro. I haven't specifically targeted containers, and I"m pretty sure that was fairly obvious. That said, most of what I've said applies to containers too.

And no. 20 heads a season is just a tiny amount. I mean, if that's all you're going to do, just toss seeds in the ground, water when you remember, pick whatever grows. If I was going to go to all that effort, I'd be growing more in the area of 50+ heads a season, and I'd want to grow other stuff on top of that. 2 lb isn't going to go that far at those levels of production, and below that, the minor hassle probably isn't worth not going out and picking lettuce up at the store. Lettuce is pretty damn cheap.

Maintaining good soil is both essentially free, and environmentally superior.
>>
>>645377
>isn't worth not going out and picking lettuce up at the store. Lettuce is pretty damn cheap.
A huge amount of bagged lettuce is wasted. If you just pick some leaves, it won't waste as much.

This is particularly true for herbs. You can either buy herbs every week, or plant a few and have as much as you need whenever.
>>
>>645172
>if soil is not easier/cheaper then whats the point?

Soil is easier and cheaper. That's the point.
>>
>>645396
Heh, I have kale, lamb's quarter, and romaine lettuce growing. I just picked a few leaves and had them for breakfast. I have enough kale to feed an army. I think every seed sprouted. lol
>>
>>645376
>I like that hydroponics appear to be a set and forget it sort of deal. With soil you have to worry about pests, disease, soil amendations, mulching, fertilizer, and watering. I could switch to drop irrigation, but you still have all the rest to worry about, and if I'm already spending money on the drip irrigation it doesn't seem like much more work to go to hydroponics.

at least this guy gets it.

>You have impressive lettuce for planting on an apartment balcony.

Thank you, check out what it looks like today, just took pic related.

>How often and when do you water the plain container lettuce?

every single morning or it drys out.
>>
>>645377
>You don't need pots to grow in soil. YOUR limitations are completely irrelevant to a discussion of the topic in general.

then you can stop posting right now because the only discussion you've had was with me and i'm discussing the advantages of hydro vs container growing, there's no point in arguing about hydro vs growing in the ground, if you have a patch of land to plant seeds it is far easier and cheaper, i'm not trying to claim otherwise.

>I can get access to 3-5 gallon containers for free without any extra effort, and chances are you get containers that are suitable from other expenses. For example, a container some pie I bought came in is doing well for growing some lettuce for me.

the same can be said for hydro, you only need buckets, i can get buckets for free, i can even use a cardboard box with a black garbage bag taped over the side as a very cheap/free container for water.

>just toss seeds in the ground, water when you remember, pick whatever grows.

again with this ground business, not everyone has a patch of soil to plant in, if they do then they might as well use it then do hydro.

>the minor hassle probably isn't worth not going out and picking lettuce up at the store. Lettuce is pretty damn cheap.

because i like to eat pesticides?

>Maintaining good soil is both essentially free, and environmentally superior.

when you have soil to maintain.
>>
Tomatoes are looking good, just finished pruning the lower leaves
>>
>>645493
>>
soil lettuce not looking too good, same size as a few days ago but some of the leaves are going yellow, i'll hit it up with some fertilizer.
>>
>>645396
Except herbs are an entirely different affair, as fresh herbs aren't cheap. Lettuce is about $1.50 a head. At 20 a season, is it really worth the $30-whatever your costs are(there are costs, even if amortized ones)? I don't really think so.

And I don't get your point. If you mean YOU waste bagged lettuce, that's your fault.

>>645415
I have kale, swiss chard, two types of lettuce, cabbage, etc.

>>645489
Where I live, the majority of people either rent or own a house. Apartments, etc. exist but aren't the norm, and where nearly every house has both a back and front yard, so you'll excuse my bias.

#SuddenlyPesticides
Lettuce is predominantly grown hydroponically at a commercial level to begin with. That said, if that's really your concern, you're probably used to and willing to deal with a premium price.

And you can maintain soil in containers too.

Again though. It's mostly shit like >>645495 that annoys me. Without a ton of info, you can't even determine if it's a valid comparison. You're basically making a comparison between lettuce grown hydroponically... somehow in some conditions, and lettuce grown in soil... somehow in some conditions. And, intentionally or not, you're presenting that as a comparison between the two growing methods when, without that info, the comparison could easily be utterly worthless.
>>
>>645531
first time posting in this thread.. don't even own a garden.

would just like to know why the fuck you care? just leave the thread or start a soil plant thread, for fuck sake man..
>>
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>>645495
did you make that corner planter?
>>
>>645539
Ignorance begets sin.
>>
>>645531
>You're basically making a comparison between lettuce grown hydroponically... somehow in some conditions, and lettuce grown in soil... somehow in some conditions. And, intentionally or not, you're presenting that as a comparison between the two growing methods when, without that info, the comparison could easily be utterly worthless.

while all the information you could possibly need about both my hydro lettuce and soil lettuce grow has been posted in this thread already, i would say that you're reading too much into this, i just made a hydroponics thread because i knew i'd have content to update with as it grows, i showed my soil lettuce because i thought i'd share what the rest of my garden looks like, i'm not trying to bash soil growing.

that said, if you really think that soil container growing yields the same results as growing in the ground then you really dont want to see my soil container tomato, then you'll really get angry.

>>645581
nope, bought it 10+ years ago.
>>
>>645531
>And I don't get your point. If you mean YOU waste bagged lettuce, that's your fault.
Most people waste bagged lettuce. It's fairly well known. Are you saying you don't end up throwing extra lettuce out all the time?
>>
>>645611
No, I don't.
>>
>>645612
Then you're either a liar or extremely unusual.

Probably a little of column a and a little of column b.
>>
>>645487
How much do you water your in-container plants? I worry I am overwatering my plants, but then I go out in the afternoon and the soil top is dry.
>>
For seed starting, do you need a special fluorescent tube or can you use any regular fluorescent light tube?
>>
>>645613
No, I just care about whether or not I'm wasting food. If I have salad mix, I use it until it's gone.

>>645614
You probably only need to water container plants once a day. Don't worry about the top being try, stick your finger in it, until you find the moisture level. Chances are it's not thoroughly dry, it's just the very top layer.

When you water, water A LOT. Some people suggest you water until water starts coming out the bottom of the container. I try to stop shortly before that. Watering deeply encourages stronger root growth, which leads to more vital plants. It also means you don't have to water as often.

>>645615
A normal fluorescent tube will be fine. I forget the distance, I think it's like four inches or something from the plants. You don't need light until your seeds have sprouted though.
>>
>>645629
>A normal fluorescent tube will be fine
Thanks
>>
>>645375
>mfw $575 for some leds
>mfw all rgb
That array would cost less than $100 to diy and you could actually do it the right way with a more desirable spectrum of light..
>>
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>>646858
>rgb

i dont think there's any green in there, its all red and blue, and if you can build it yourself then by all means do, i'm certain that it will be much cheaper, just be sure to get at least 3 watt LEDS for this array or else there's no point.

that specific growlight gets better results then any other grow light on youtube, and i've search around quite a bit, the company says the light is patented for using some kind of special spectrum combo, i was going to suggest you look up the patent and use that but it literally took a single google search so here you are:

https://www.google.com/patents/US20120170264
https://www.google.com/patents/US20120020071

google has too much information these days, just by searching for the patent i've found out that the inventor of the growlight is a transgender scam artist name Cammie Mckenzie that use to scam automobile forums out of imported auto parts.

hold me /pol/g/
>>
no point in having green light for plant growth.

NASA suggests adding green LEDs to growlights only for diagnosing growth problems by making the light white. When only using red/blue plants look off color making it hard to spot discoloration.
>>
Speaking of garden farming. Im thinking of building one of these >>644994 # (left)
And had the idea that reflecting the sun beams that goes in trough the top lid would increase the growing rate of the plants. Im thinking the more reflections inside, pointing at the plants the better. Is this a good idea or would the plants burn.
By reflectors i mean aluminium plates or mirrors in the backplate, at the bottom and around the top lid.

Im also connecting a watherhoze as a automatic sprinker that slowly drips water on the plants, anybody got any experience with this?
>>
>>647105
Doesnt sound like a good idea, any of it, reflectors inside a greenhouse would burn the plants, and constantly dripping water on the plants leave in a very hot and humid environment would create a breeding ground for mold and other foliar diseases, so unless you decide to grow rain forest tier plants, i would not recommend.
>>
>>647030
This simply isn't true. Plants still use green light, if in smaller (okay basically insignificant in green plants) quantities, and that's not addressing plants whose pigmentation is red, etc, who will absorb green light more than other colours of the spectrum.

>>647105
Well, consider that most things like this use a translucent plastic that diffuses the light that passes through it, which makes reflectors useless, but also means light illuminates the underside of plants as well. Also this diffusion does not significantly decrease light intensity, just makes it less harsh.

Also means the entire space stays lit up, so you can grow things under other things without a problem.
>>
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>>647152
>This simply isn't true
>ok its true
>wait its untrue is specific circumstances.

good argument...
>>
>>647201
My point was mostly that what you said was a gross oversimplification. Adding a few green LEDs into a massive LED panel isn't going to take that much effort, or much of the other light away, and is going to probably much better than redoing the entire thing for those plants that do need it.

To be honest, maybe it's more a me thing, though. I enjoy growing atypically-coloured plants.
>>
I just started an aquaponic garden. 100 gallon stock tank with 60 feeder gold fish and two 30 gallon grow beds. just planted one with kale the other with spinach. live in Wisconsin
>>
>>647871
Pictures? i'd like to see that, i'm also considering starting an aquaponic operation.
>>
UPDATE #04
>wanted to write that in the subject field but the subject field is gone for some reason

Anyways, everything is getting too big, the lettuce is way too big and sucking up so much water that i have to refill the tank every 2-3 days.

the tomato plants are also getting so big that i estimate they only have another week or so before they reach the bird net, i'll have to start training them soon.

3 days ago i received my TDS meter in the mail and measured the water of everything, first i learned that the water in my tap is not clean by any means, around 350 PPM right out of the tap, the recommended amount for hydro is under 250 but i guess it works out since the plants look good.

the proper amount of PPM with this fertilizer is around 1000 PPM for the tomatoes and around 800-900 for the lettuce, i took a reading of the remaining water after the lettuce drank up about half of it and the PPM was up to 1300, had to dilute it down to around 900 or it would have burned the roots, the tomatoes have a bigger reservoir so they are doing ok.
>>
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>>648166
tomatoes look healthy, flowers are starting to pop up.
>>
I am thinking about doing a couple of hydroponic setups, r more accurately aeroponics.

My question is, why should aero systems be set to pulse rather than run continuously.

Also, do any of you flush your systems? I want to have a ccontinuous harvest system for my spinach, and herbs.

Flushing seems like it would help the plants about to be harvested, but hurt those still in veg growth.
>>
>>648303
energy efficiency and pump life. you COULD run it constantly. but why run it constantly if you only need a 20% duty cycle?

the point is to keep the roots moist and humid. extra water beyond the minimum isnt going to help.
>>
>>648362
Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.

Has anyone got any experience using fogging system? I found a supplier that has 1-2 l/h ultrasonic atomizers in the $100 range (with out power supply).

The only worry I would have would be salt build up, but the idea is very intriguing.

For my continuous harvest leaf greens I don't think it would work better than nft, but for a few pepper plants in a larger container it could be fun to try.
>>
>>648374
Atomizer on a cycle timer, 12-15min on per hour. With a air stone in the rez.
>>
>>648377
dont need an air stone for aeroponic. the whole point of it is that the roots are constantly in air.
>>
>>648383
>
if the container is sealed, you do, or the oxygen in the sealed,comtainer will be depleated and the roots will suffer
>>
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Update #05 - Delicious lettuce edition

Well the lettuce was getting too big for the container and i needed lettuce for my salad so the big one had to go.
>>
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>>648986
>>
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>>648990
look at that root ball
>>
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>>648992
>>
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>>648994
after giving it a quick rinse and removing the bottom leaves i moved on to the taste test.
>>
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>>648997
it tastes quite sweet, and its by far a lot crunchier then any lettuce i've bought before.

overall, i'd call this hydroponic lettuce experiment a success.
>>
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>>649001
here's a side project, we'll see how it goes.

tomato updates coming tommorow.
>>
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I am trying to grow Rhubarb in a greenhouse in Central Texas using a hydro setup I used long ago for watermelons. Its just recycled fishtank water. Its going to get pretty warm in about a month (about 120-130) in the greenhouse. So I will likely have to move the Rhubarb inside, which light will be a problem, not sure what I will do and keep it costing $0. So far the hydroponics rhubarb which had a huge root cluster has sprouted off a lot of exra plants which I think are not actually the same plant, just tangled roots.
>>
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>>649036

A second plant/cluster that was brought back from washington I planted in a simple pot to keep track of the differences in growing. It developed a single extra shoot and has tripled in size since it has been potted. Easily twice the size of its companion where they both started at about the same size. It obviously enjoys the Texas heat and the tropical feel of the greenhouse more than I first suspected. I doubt it will like it much when it gets to be over 105 degrees outside in a few weeks.

I'll post some pics if anything interesting happens like they spontaneously combust in the Texas heat.
>>
>>649036
>>649040
nice setup you got there, plant looks healthy, keep us updated.
>>
>>640840
>>648168
That's quite impressive for a couple weeks growth.

>>649003
What material is that that's holding the plant?
>>
>>649464
>That's quite impressive for a couple weeks growth.

and thats not even what it looks like today, i'll take a picture when i get home, its pretty crazy.

>What material is that that's holding the plant?

the growing medium? its expanded clay pebbles, commonly known as hydroton.

they have no nutrients in them and they retain water so they work well to grow in.
>>
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>>649464
>>649753
Update #5.5 - tomato edition,

they look like little trees now, and they are flowering, they are also sucking up at least half a gallon of water each every day.
>>
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>>650114
also tasted my first goji berry today, was bretty gud.
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