The age old question

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>>1239174
Could you get away with only ever owning a Tig welder? Or are there situations where you absolutely need a mig welder?
Asking for a friend.

>>1239177
All I know is stick is the worst

>tfw no alu welding

WIRE FED ELECTRIC

>>1239184
stick is good for deep penetration welding, probably structural welding

>>1239184
you're thinking of mig welding, where a spool of wire is used to shit out large globs of molten metal into the seam, it doesn't always penetrate and weld the pieces together, but it's handy for building up material.

mig welds are shit, but it's quick welding.

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>>1239188
>a spool of wire is used to shit out large globs of molten metal into the seam

>>1239188
>mig welds are shit, but it's quick welding.
this means you're a shit welder

>>1239174

If my understanding is correct, with TIG one hand has to accurately hold the rod while the other hand has to accurately hold the torch, and if the torch touches the puddle it gets fucked up.

so it would seem that TIG requires more dexterity than stick or MIG, but is about the same as oxy-acetylene in terms of two-handed operation.

All my experience is with AC stick, which seems good for steel that is 1/8 or thicker, but I'd like to try TIG or MIG or the flux rod deal, but every time I read up I get discouraged by all the warnings about this and that.

>>1239194
>>1239192
Okay, Mig *can* be shit.

>>1239204
Tig uses a shielding gas typically, and with the right gasses and rods you can weld almost any material, and with the right machine most thicknesses.

aluminum, titanium, inconel, whatever you happen to be working with.

>>1239184
>All I know is stick is the worst
>>tfw no alu welding

sure you can, 4043 rods

it's just not easy to do and pretty expensive (~$1/rod)

>>1239215
The result is not as good as TIG, I've tried welding alu with stick, and the resulting weld are not solid inside

>>1239174
Tig.

>>1239174
At my work they use MIG for literally everything, i try to avoid a TIG, because of jittery hands

>>1239174
age old answer:
it depends

>>1239211
Welding 20mm with a TIG machine that isn't water cooled, let me grab some MIG gloves.

I don't understand why people are so afraid of stick. it's stupid simple for thicc material and setting up the machine is a breeze.

>>1239174
Fast, good or cheap?

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>>1239174
They are 3 separate tools for 3 separate jobs. You're asking something like, "Spoon, Fork, or Knife?"

Sage for pointless thread.

>>1239362
>They are 3 separate tools for 3 separate jobs. You're asking something like, "Spoon, Fork, or Knife?"
>Sage for pointless thread.

maybe post at least one sentence telling us what you know?

when I google "welding", it's always "this is good but not so good, and this other shit is good but sucks sorta, so there's this other way that is great but is really hard to do."

welding. I suppose you have to teach yourself.

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>>1239368
>googling for and reading blogs
>then asking 4chan to be spoonfed

>>1239174
tIG is best hands down for welding pretty much everything. Downside is it's quite expensive to get a good rig and proper rods, not to mention tungsten tips. Expect to pay 5k for a halfwauy decent setup.

ARC is good for heavy duty (re thick) structural stuff. Easiest to learn and the machine and rods shouldn't sset you back more than $600.

My personal fav is mig welding. You can weld 18g steel to 1/4 inch plate no problem. Just need to adjust your settings accordingly. You can get a nice semi portables mig, argon/co2 can, spoolsa (I recommend .30 wire for most everything) for around $500.

t. been welding over half my life. I'm 30

>>1239174
GTAW if done correctly leaves a clean low profile bead requires little to no cleaning, but you need both hands.
GMAW and SMAW throw more sparks, may require removal of slag, but you can use one hand.

I've welded with all 3 and a few others. stick is the funest by far. it's easy to use, easy to fix and easy to get perfect.

mig needs more resources like gas and wire, tips, cups etc. it's more complex and more shit can fail like wire feeders, rolls, hoses and shit.

tig requires time to master it and gas and tungsten and a grinder and everyone that does it is a douche.fuck that.

flux core, blue shield? shit same as tig shit with no gas.

sub arc shit ton of machinery and resources.

thermite will kill you or blind you and it's more like making a cake than welding.

all else needs shit ton of expensive equipment.

stick is the most straight forward, if you fuck it up you will immediately know and you have to be an illiterate monkey to fuck it up.

>>1239174

>The age old question

Asked by whom? All three methods have a need, place, use and asking silly shit like this only serves to make you look stupid IMHO.

>>1239208

It's clear you're not a professional; you're possibly ok on a home gamer level but you certainly shouldn't be taking it upon yourself to 'educate' others when what you're saying is pretty much rubbish.

They can be shit if who ever using it is shit. Same goes for anything else.

This thread seems relevant, I just got a small 115v 100A stick welder in a trade for some guitar services. Is this sufficient enough to make some film rigs?
The welder itself says it can do up to 3/8" thick steel, but other stuff on the web says it'll only really be good for sheet metal. Anyone have experience using a welder this small? Once I get good with what I have I'll upgrade to something with more oomph, but for now I'd like to learn and help my buddies make shit for their filmmaking stuff

>>1239440
im glad im not the only one who notices that tig welders are usually cunts
>"see its a stack of dimes, hey everybody come look at how neat my weld is"
fuck off

>>1239488
you might have to preheat the metal if its that thick

>>1239491
I'm sure i can go thinner than 3/8 for what I need to do, I was just confused because the forums I checked out seemed to say it couldn't do more than sheet. Once I get my outlet set up I guess ill just have to test it out, thanks for the tip though.

>MIG

For normies and beginners and general welding

>STICK/ARC

For structural iron and steel

>TIG

For aluminum/stainless steel or other easily malleable and sensitive materials.

>>1239493
Stick welding thicker material is easier than thinner material, it just takes proper joint prep and multiple passes. Thinner sheet metal (16g.+) is more the realm of mig and tig.
I have an 115v 80 amp stick/tig DC inverter and whoever told you it will only do sheet metal is full of it. For film rigs you'll probably be using angle, pipe and square tubing no thicker than 1/4", which that machine will stick weld without a problem. Get some 3/32" 7018 rods and you'll be good to go.

>>1239174

MIG is fast and easy. Notable downside, however, is that it can produce a good-looking weld that has virtually no penetration.

Stick is best for thick material. Pretty much the only thing you're going to see on heavy pipe and structural material. Big buzz box machines essentially never die and are very cheap.

TIG is a fiddly bitch, slow, and difficult. But it's handily the most versatile process. Any metal that can be welded can be welded with TIG.

>>1239526
>Any metal that can be welded can be welded with TIG
Not tungsten itself, which you could conceivably weld with oxyhydrogen.

>>1239603
>oxyhydrogen
Couldn't you just use DC electrode positive to melt the tip of the tungsten and in theory fuse it to another piece of tungsten. Maybe even throw in some chem sharp as flux?
Also why use oxyhydrogen instead of acetylene.

>>1239623
I heard acetylene doesn't get hot enough, but yeah you can probably spot weld any metal.

>>1239177
If it's a good TIG welder, probably. Say 10-150 amps, AC and DC output. AC balance control and pulse would be nice, but not strictly necessary. TIG can weld just about anything with suitable setup, arc, and filler, but it's slower than most other processes. That means more time (and shielding gas and heat input) than MIG for a given weld if MIG can do it too, though the TIG weld will probably look nicer. You may need to run more passes with TIG, which will add even more heat and distortion, which may be a concern. MIG does handle dirty metal better than TIG, and a good MIG machine may be able to do spray transfer, which is a whole other animal. Both TIG and MIG are vulnerable to wind blowing the shielding gas around, so they're not suitable for field use like stick and flux core are. Ultimately, it comes down to what your friend expects to be doing. Have any details?

>>1239493
100A is fairly anemic, especially for a cheap machine, You should probably mostly use 3/32 rods, but you might get away with 1/8" 6011. Even then, you'll probably have to work for good penetration and tie-in. Practice maintaining a tight, consistent arc and manipulating the puddle to achieve penetration and proper bead profile. It's not a good machine to learn on, but it should be doable. Get good before building anything that will have to not fall apart, and meet in person with a professional welder to review your welds before building anything that could fall on someone.

>>1239603
>Not tungsten itself
Most of the heat is deposited on the positive side of the arc, so a TIG torch running DC- can generate considerably higher temperatures at the focus of the src than what the electrode itself experiences. And in all torches, the electrode enjoys considerable cooling from the torch itself and the argon flowing over it. The arc itself is far hotter than the melting point of tungsten.

Never used TIG, but I find stick to be better than mig in almost every way.

>>1239708

Most here are concerned with melt thru or burn thru using stick (SMAW). However, if they ever used the right electrode, such as 3/32" E6013 you'd see that SMAW is probably the most versatile process

>>1239711
>However, if they ever used the right electrode, such as 3/32" E6013 you'd see that SMAW is probably the most versatile process

I have tried to weld exhaust pipes with a Lincoln AC stick welder, with 1/8 rods and it was a constant battle to move fast enough to not burn through and yet keep a decent puddle. I don't recall the type of rod, but if I had E6013 3/32" would that weld something as thin as exhaust pipe, assuming the right guy was doing the welding?

>>1239215

Really?

I have noticed that there is no Ali works in my country so I was investigating why to see if I could enter that market somehow.

The main reason turns out to be that argon gas itself is hard to get which is why there is no mig or Tig either. Pure stick welding.

I am trying to see how to enter Ali welding (and hydraulics) cheaply without having to import my own argon at least until the business can start expanding.

>>1239726
I've stick welded as thin as 22ga, and 6013 is a particularly low-penetration rod. Running AC (lower penetration than DC+) on exhaust pipe should be doable, if perhaps a bit tricky.

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>>1239734
http://hildstrom.com/projects/stickaluminum/

>>1239174
Stick is best because all you need is a car battery and a rod while all the others are shop queens that cant be used around site.

The fact is they all see use because they all have a use, in my trade poertability reigns supreme so I love tiny arks over taking a gas bottle up 5 floors of stairs for a tack.

>>1239327
*like*

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>>1239362
>
SPOON. SPOOOOOOONNN!!!!!!!

>>1239362
This guy knows

>>1239511
This guy also knows

>>1239450
Mig not getting the penetration needed for a strong joint is a very common problem with Mig welded stuff.

If industry can mig weld better then that's great and it might deserve another look.

>>1239734
what? How could there not be importation of Argon in your country??

Sounds like an opportunity, even for a small timer.

>>1240220
>importation of Argon
It's worse than that. Industrial argon is produced from the air, which is about 1% argon everywhere on Earth. That means there's no domestic fractional distillation of air, which also means no oxygen or nitrogen production. This is century-old technology.

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>>1240219
>not knowing that MIG is slowly overtaking SMAW in construction

>>1240219
Mig underpenetration only happens with untrained jackasses like you.

>>1239174
Tig

I have to use a mig that my dad bought when i specifically told him that tig is the most controllable

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>1239174
FIB

The correct answer is ALWAYS FIB.

Because welding a few atoms at a time has a heat effected zones smaller then the thin film bonding limit, so there is no weakening.

>>1240260
is that some kind of cold-welding process with super flat surfaces?

>>1240288
Focused Ion Beam (FIB)

You throw charged atoms at things to get them to stick together.

It is similar to micro laser welding, but energy profiles are different enough to matter as a charge gallium atom moving insanely fast holds a much higher energy cross section then a typical photon cluster. And it is hard to just up the photon energy as too much and the targets depth relativistically becomes transparent and the energy move through it rather then hitting and depositing it. (see x-ray laser welding issues)

Obviously there is always going to be a specialized to for optimum effect, but FIB really does seem to be as close as we get to a silver bullet*. And the core mechanics are simple, feed gas and electron gun*.

*assuming you have the time to wait, welding a few microns makes for horrendous feed speed


*for DIY grab a helium tank and a old CRT, note some higher level refinement and details not included

>>1239208
Any of them 'can be shit' you mong

>>1239174
It's not an age old question, it's a dumb question asked by somebody that doesn't understand that there's a valid scenario for each different one.

Want to do pretty welds on stainless or ally? Use TIG

Want to weld mild steel quickly in a fabrication environment? Use MIG

Want to weld thick shit outdoors on a windy day? Use stick

Obviously there are numerous other pros & cons, I just can't be bothered to spend any more time on you.

>>1239381
>tIG is best hands down for welding pretty much everything
Not if you want to fabricate in a workshop and actually produce things in good time.

>>1240326
in unskilled hands it is likely MIG will be worse than TIG or stick

If you have to have only one, have MIG, but like many other pointed out, each thing has its uses. Stick is very good for structural welding and generally less of a pain in the ass when welding some thicc metals.Anything above 5mm thick is when I would use a stick. Stick is also better when welding outdoors. Many people are just instantly turned off by stick due to it requiring a bit more skill and a steadier hand, but it's really not that hard. Keep the angle and the speed in mind, the subtle patterns will come naturally overtime.
TIG is good for aluminium and stainless, nothing too thick.

Tig is for aluminum.

Stick is for third world pajeets and mohammeds welding with car batteries and jumper cables.

mig is for the russian air force.

>>1239184
Stick can do a lot of different alloys of steel and even cast iron much quicker then TIG. Also, stick can deal with crappy work prep, you can even go through paint (but the welds will look like crap).
MIG/MAG is pure speed. Welds are crappier and material choice is most limited, as it has to be on a spool. Can do Alu, but only thin stuff and has to run stupid fast.
TIG only if you actually need it. Also, sloooow.

Welder here.
If I had to have one welder to do everything in a diy context it would be a TIG/stick multi process welder and it wouldn't even be close.

The only reason why semi-auto processes are so widespread is because they're faster.

Tig may be generally considered the best, but often really isnt. Most of the time I go with what ever process is "good enough". Unless I'm welding to someone's code, I'm going with whatever is fastest and gets the job done with the least fucking around.

I like tig the most as it's clean and quiet to run (not AC obviously), but its pretty slow and will warp/distort pretty bad if you dont take sometimes extreme measures to prevent it.

Sometimes its nice to just throw on a few stick passes and get on with life, especialy if strength is important but appearence is not. Because at the end of the day both stick and tig are equal in strength if done correctly by some one who knows what they are doing.

also, fuck mig and flux core both

>>1240403
>if strength is important but appearence is not
m8
A properly made 7018 weld is boner-worthy.

>>1240403
im this guy
>>1240389
>Can do Alu, but only thin stuff and has to run stupid fast.

You can mig any thickness aluminum you want if you have the right gun/feeder. But, i just can't get over how terrible it looks, personally. I'll tig 1"+ aluminum all day every day just to not ever have to see a nasty smokey mig weld.

>>1240396
>a TIG/stick multi process welder
Both processes use constant current. Every TIG machine I'm aware of can run stick, and DC stick machines can run scratch-start TIG. But yes, that's a pretty versatile combo.

>>1240444
If you're gonna TIG do it properly, ie with a pedal.

>>1240447
Pedals are nice for benchtop work, but on-torch remotes or no remote is typically better for working on large weldments and work outside a shop, since it may not be practical to operate a foot pedal. My TIG machine at home has a foot pedal, but I often run it in lift-arc mode when working on bigger stuff.

>>1239174
Stick for rough and ready on the spot
Mic for alot of welding
Tic for nice stuff

>>1240449
I hate torch remotes so goddamn much.
I literally turned down job offers because they used them in their shop.

>>1239184
Most of the stick welding I do is aluminum. It's tricky though, consumes rods super fast.

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>Start training for a diploma with welding in it
>They make us start with TIG
>Touch with the tip about 5 times in an afternoon
>Sharpening machine is terrible
Being bad is a pain. How long have you guys been training before getting decent ?

>>1241389
>>Touch with the tip about 5 times in an afternoon
That's not bad for just starting out. As you build up muscle memory, it will happen less often.

>Sharpening machine is terrible
What I've usually seen used is a pedestal grinder with a 6" expansion wheel running a coarse Cubitron II belt. Sometimes with a dedicated cordless drill or cut-down worn-out torch head to hold and spin the electrode more easily than bare hands. What are you using?

Anyway, I picked up TIG pretty much right away. However, I have exceptional hand-eye coordination, close visual acuity, and conscious reaction time. I also went into it with stick experience. If you're doing afternoon classes several days a week starting from nothing, you can probably expect to see initial troubles, significant progress once you "get it", and then a tapering off of improvement on the scale of weeks as you become competent at the particular things you've been practicing. But let's say your coordination isn't that great, or there's some other difficulty, and things are going slowly. That just means you'll have to practice more than others might, but unless you have a significant physical disability, the muscle memory, skill at puddle manipulation, and pretty welds will come in time. If you notice someone doing particularly well, pay attention to their technique, and don't be shy about asking questions.

One out-of-class exercise that might be useful is to get a piece of filler wire and practice feeding it through your hand (with a glove if that's what you do in class) while watching TV or doing other things where you have a hand free. If that's down to the point you don't even have to think about it apart from the results you want, you can focus your attention on what the torch is doing.

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>>1241465
>As you build up muscle memory, it will happen less often.
Yeah I still have trouble accustoming to the gloves and seeing through the mask.
>What are you using?
Pic related. You put the tungsten in the slot and it sharpens it for you, except it doesn't work well. My instructors was pestering about it.
Using an old torch seems smart. I'll ask if they have any to try

Yeah I don't think I've got it. I made some apparently decent point welding (dunno how to say it in english, sorry) but that's out of pure luck. Guess I'll have to feel how long or how quick I should move and all.

Oh damn that's a good exercise. I have plenty of free time so I'll try that. Thanks anon

>>1241389
>Touch with the tip about 5 times in an afternoon
That's actually pretty decent. When I started (especially with aluminum) I dipped my tungsten multiple times in the same weld sometimes.

>How long have you guys been training before getting decent ?
Started solidly getting the hang of it after about two weeks I guess. Then after about a month or so of doing aluminum TIG production full time I started doing some weldporn-tier shit.

It's weird that they make you start with TIG though. It's really not something I'd recommend.
Starting with stick would be a better idea imo

>>1241523
Well I was being overly careful as it was my first time, surely as I try a bit harder I'll dipped more often
I believe it was more of an introduction as it was easy to setup. We'll do MIG and stick as well next week, so perhaps they plan to make us touch everything a bit and then focus more seriously on easier welding process. It's still the first week

>>1241465
>>1241523

I'm an infrequent welder, like once or twice per year, and it seems that I have to relearn a bit every time to get good welds from my bottom of the line Lincoln AC.

I'm assuming that if I bought a Tig I'd never be any good with it, right? It seems that you need to use it quite regularly to keep the skills sharp and be able to manipulate the rod and the tip where they need to be.

>>1241530
Oh okay. In my welding degree we did each process intensively before moving on to the next one. That kinda makes sense too in a way.

>>1241541
Depends on you, but yeah, usually when you're out of practice it kinda shows, but it wouldn't be a "start from scratch" situation every time since a lot of the welding skill is about reading and controlling the puddle.
Sometimes when I get back in the shop after 2 weeks vacation my welds suck big time, but after like 15 minutes of practice it's back to normal.

>>1239194
I mean its like using a hot glue gun, any retard can do it. So the likely hood of a guy with a mig gun in his hand being a shit welder is pretty fucking high.

>>1239174
Realistically, get a tig machine that you can run stick weld with and you would be set for pretty much everything you would need to do at home. Saying this because mig is worse than tig/stick unless you need really long welds

>>1239174
spot welder is all you need

>>1241888
lolno

>>1241530
>Well I was being overly careful as it was my first time, surely as I try a bit harder I'll dipped more often
One thing to watch for is maintaining a tight arc. Newbies often use a too-long arc length with TIG, which really messes up puddle control, though it does reduce the chance of dipping the tungsten. Try to keep it as tight as you can control.

>>1241541
That depends a lot on what you'd be doing with it. Simple stuff like easily accessible structural welds probably wouldn't be too hard to pick up again, but then stick would probably work for that. For the fiddly stuff where TIG shines, you might have trouble. What do you have in mind for hypothetical TIG welding?

>>1241920
>What do you have in mind for hypothetical TIG welding?

thin steel like automobile sheet metal and exhaust pipes. I've tried what another anon suggested, just sitting at my desk holding two objects to practice moving the torch and drawing little circles with the rod, and it seems that my right hand should hold the rod if it's my better hand, since I'm right-handed.

>>1239174
Use the proper names

>GMAW = MIG
>GTAW = TIG
>SMAW = Arc
>SAW
>FCAW

>>1239174
I try to mig usually. It's faster, and my tig machine isn't as portable as my mig or oxy.

>>1242105
>I try to mig usually. It's faster,

I keep seeing that, or "tig is slow". What exactly are we talking about here? Lets say I want to run a bead as long as my arm, and everything is suitable for tig or mig, meaning in both cases the process is fine, are we talking about twice as much time, or 20 times, or what?

As a casual welder, I like the idea that tig is easier, even though in some ways people say it takes more skill. I understand that professionals actually care about something taking twice as long, but at home that's not usually the critical factor. Of course, if it's 20 or 30 times slower then I can see why you'd never use tig unless you had to.

So, people who have experience with both, can you describe the "slowness" of tig in real world terms that a novice can relate to.

>>1242106
Mig is maybe 30% faster when your actually welding, plus the time you lose by grabbing more rod for your tig. Mig welding also puts more heat into the weld than a comparable tig because the heat that would go into the tungsten is being fed into the workpiece with a mig.

Tig isn't slow though. If my tig machine wasn't the size of a refrigerator I would use it more.

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>>1242105
>>1242106

Pic related.

I have some better graphs in my handbook but that is at the office. not going in on a Sunday to settle a 4chan argument

>>1242054
you're right. here's another
(you) = FAG

>>1239174
We all know atomic hydrogen welding is king

>>1242106
You can do a fusion weld with TIG with a travel speed as fast as MIG, but the main speed advantage of MIG is its deposition rate. If you're making a big fillet as long as your arm, TIG might take three times as many passes, and you'd need to stop periodically to get new filler rods. MIG also deposits much less heat for a given fill amount, so it's better at filling gaps quickly, and you have less risk of burning through at a given amperage, which means that you can run MIG hotter and faster on a given thickness of metal. MIG is commonly run at 2-3x the travel speed and several times the deposition rate of TIG. Whether that matters much for you depends on what you'll be doing.

>>1240406
>7018 makes boner-worthy
A good 7024 weld will make you cum on sight guaranteed

>>1242956
as an AC-only pleb i love the results with 7024 (when i can get the position for it) but the puddle's a swirling mess of fuck, it looks like walnut burl.