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Circuit breaker

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Thread replies: 37
Thread images: 3

Hey /diy/ what would cause a toaster oven in one room to trip a breaker in another room but not turn off the oven? Are the wires crossed somewhere?
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Breaker as in over current or RCD?
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>>1235231
Ovens are 220 and are generally on their own circuit. It is quite possible that you kitchen shares a breaker with other parts of the house.
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>>1235240
Toaster ovens are countertop-sized devices that plug into standard household plugs and run on whatever the household current is.

>>1235231
Different breaker sensitivities combined with some other wiring fault like cross-connected branch circuits.
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>>1235324
>Different breaker sensitivities combined with some other wiring fault like cross-connected branch circuits.

well that sounds bizarre, but maybe. OP, to test this, find the breaker that turns off the toaster oven, and turn it off. then see if the toaster can trip the other breaker. if the toaster does not come on and does not trip the other breaker, then the toaster is not causing it to trip.
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>>1235234
It's the circuit breaker in the panel, not GFCI.
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>>1235231

Your roommate is doing it to disable the security cameras so he can pilfer the fridge
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>>1235231
>toaster oven trips a breaker
>but the toaster oven stays on
>and other stuff is deenergized
>toaster oven thus trips cb that is completely isolated from the toaster oven
Am I understanding what you're saying? Because no combination of wiring mistakes could cause this, short of adding in another component like a relay or CT.

Tldr: Correlation =/= causation.
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>>1236301
I bet the toaster oven breaker is next to the faulty one. It heat up a bit, the faulty one gets a bit of heat and it trips.

It's also possible but unlikely the branch conductors are experiencing some coupling due to their positions. I literally just made my electrician re run a multi conductor cable because he laid the original just above some t12 lighting. This was enough to pull in a contactor on the cable with a 2 amp, 120volt coil even with the source isolated. It was intermittently activating a 100hp belt. Thankfully the 480v side was locked out and noone got hurt. But dude that fucking light didn't even draw that much so it just blew my mind.

Or even more likely someone is seriously fucking with OP.
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>>1236301
What if you wrapped the active wire from the toaster oven circuit around the neutral wire for the second circuit which has a GFCI? That would mean whenever a enough power was put through the toaster oven circuit it would induce a current in the second circuit's neutral wire, potentially unbalancing it and tripping the GFCI without affecting the non-GFCI protected toaster oven circuit.
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>>1236322
True, if the kitchen breaker was fucked and/or getting hot, and the one next to it (above most likely) was already heavily loaded on the verge of tripping or fucked, there's a terribly small chance of that being a problem. Swap both breakers and call it a day. Ring the circuits out with a multimeter while you're in there poking around.

Still much more likely is OP seeing more in this than there actually is.

Also, if rerunning the cable fixed your problem, it was improperly run to begin with. Most of the time those ballasts say on the packaging to keep other cables away because they create high frequency noise. The problem isn't unheard of though. I had to troubleshoot a problem at a power plant where the whole unit (180 MW) would trip when a cooling tower pump would kick on. They a had 4160V line and 120V control cable with a BFI input to a relay run in the same cable tray. Our solution? We added a resistor in series with the input.

>>1236343
No. Kirchhoff' Current Law dude. If you add current into a circuit from something like that, you're going to push the current all the way around the circuit, through the load, back to the other terminal of the GFCI. The other breaker would need to be loaded up a great majority of the way and trip on overcurrent which is another problem to address entirely. (You start wrapping a wire around another one and see how many turns it takes to get even an amp out of it)
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>>1236429
Aren't GFCIs sensitive to like, 20mA? It wouldn't take anywhere close to 1 amp.
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>>1236623
Usually 10-20ma current imbalance between the hot and neutral will trip a gfi.
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>>1236429
The light wasn't there before they ran it. Nema 4x 36" t12 Fixture.

That apprentice (and journeyman) learned something that day.
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>>1236623
Lets ignore the point of what I was saying to spout some extraneous info. Current is the same at both terminals of a branch circuit. If you add current in the middle with a winding like that, the current is applied to both sides so there's no imbalance. They will only trip on ground fault if there is a ground fault.

>>1236639
Makes sense.
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>>1236650
Alright, noted. Second idea. The earth pin from the toaster circuit is wired to the neutral wire for the second circuit instead of ground.

In normal operation nothing happens since nothing is leaking to earth. However, the the toaster oven is faulty and leaks current to ground (2nd circuit neutral) when it's turned on. This doesn't trip the first circuit since it doesn't have a GFCI, but it does trip the second circuit's GFCI (backwards!) since the 2nd circuit neutral will be carrying more current than the 2nd circuit's active.
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>>1236657
Dude... Lay off the pipe man. This shit is usually stupid simple.
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>>1236660
Probably just a weather balloon.
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>>1235231
Floating neutral wire.

In a three phase system if you have power drain in all phases and neutral isn't connected to the transformer neutral it will float to about 0V if the power drains are even.

And to some other voltage when not. As when you turn on the toaster the voltage on the another room rises and so does the current, flipping circuit breaker.

THIS IS A SERIOUS FAULT!

Call electrician immediately to fix it as it can burn electronics or even the house.

What's worse the ground wire might be affected too, so the casings of appliances could have a voltage from anything from zero to line voltage!
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>>1235231
>toaster oven in one room
>not turn off the oven
mfw.jpg
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>>1236724
If this were true he'd be blowing bulbs when the fridge turned on. The electronics now a days probably wouldn't see it cause autoranging.

No need for a sparky just need a multimeter. The case of the "service transformer losing earth ground to the neutral connection " is a plausible one indeed!
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>>1236657
Holy fuck stop please.
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>>1236724
Homes are not wired that way in the states. But good try.
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>>1236429
What about crossed wires? If the toaster outlet was crossed with a wire on a smaller breaker wouldn't it pull the power from both this tripping the smaller breaker and leaving the larger one in tact?
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>>1236779
Why? Am I wrong?
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>>1236738
You can check it with multimeter, to see if the voltage goes up in the other room when turning the toaster on.
As for measuring neutral wires resistance to the ground, don't. High chance of blowing the meter and the measurement would be useless anyway. The fault might be oxidiced connection that often shows good contact with low current measurement, like with a normal multimeter but fails with high current.
As for autoranging electronics, they will be able to handle it if OP lives in a place where AC voltage is 110, but if he lives in a place where voltage is 220-240, the neutral wire fault can throw the voltage upto 400 volts which will blow up stuff.

>>1236781
And we know OP is from the states living in a average home how?
As for wiring in the US you use braindead split phase wiring where the transformer is tapped from middle. Neutral wire fault still applies as the voltage will shift as power differs.
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>>1236851
Yes.
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>>1235231
The toaster oven is on a different breaker than the full size stove.

If your stove, like mine, has a standard recepticle on it to use with 120V devices you'll find that there's a fuse there to protect that circuit. So blowing that circuit still won't blow the breaker supplying the stove.
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>>1235231
Also, you may have some broken down insulation or poorly made splices in a junction box. I've seen that before.
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>>1236952
How so?
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>>1238689
oven as in the toaster oven, not a seperate appliance
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not a sparky but how about this:

>toaster oven is on breaker A
>breaker B is nearly overloaded
>turning on toaster oven causes a voltage drop
>when the mains recover the extra inrush through breaker B trips it

i don't know if all toaster ovens are purely resistive so who knows
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Replace the breaker that is tripping, it's old.
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>>1235862
Lol
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>>1238805
Textbook warrior detected.
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>>1238805
First year?
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>>1235862
damn, your room mate has got you digging in the walls and replacing breakers now. Battery backups for camera's anon, or bust. P.S. Hidden fridges are a good idea
Thread posts: 37
Thread images: 3


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