Drill rifles

>>1224704
The purpose of reenacting is honor. There is no honor in complaining about the weight of a rifle your grandfathers carried for months or years.

Also, I'm guessing the barrel is filled. There is no easy way to retain appearance and lighten the rifle. It's time to man up, your faggot group isn't even carrying the weight on your back or head that soldiers carry.

>>1224715
The problem is that we're allowing 16 year olds now, which means they're a bit too small to carry them. Also, with complicated drills, the weight really gets annoying.

I don't have a problem with them. I mean, they're vintage '39-'44 receivers, with a lot of history and character behind them. I'm just plain looking at finding some new rifles, because that'd be easier.

Could you zip off the barrel after the action and replace with conduit?

Core out the butt stock and plug the ends?

If a gun smith reamed it out the barrel or made the alterations would be still be legal?

>>1224723
Barrel needs to original, plugged on both ends (chamber and muzzle) with a 30mm long pin , and welded shut. This has already been done.

Hollowing out the buttstock would create negligable weight savings, while weakening the stock. Not a good thing when people slam them onto the ground during drills.

Reaming out the barrel would mean first drilling through the 30mm rods, then reaming it out, and then welding the rods back in. Wouldn't save much weight either.

remove the barrel and replace it with a piece of painted plastic.

>>1224733
Replacing the barrel would mean reactivating it (legally speaking).

dont post this to /k/ - they will just scream and 'sperg out about the fact they're deactivated, and start going on about "pussy yuros noguns faggot" or something.

You know, the usual drivel.


I would suggest, OP, that you do a search for HEMA (Historical martial arts) training in bayonet drills. There's quite a lot of hema groups in the netherlands, and it does range from iron age, to 19th C sabre and, importantly for you, Bayonet training.

they might well be able to source a bayonet trainer rifle dummy in ash or similar wood.

>>1224738
>You know, the usual drivel.
That would be ironic, sine I'm one of the few people in the Netherlands who is hasguns.

The problem with wooden replica's is that they'd look unrealistic. We're judged at authenticity.

>>1224738
>>1224740
Oh and HEMA is a major Dutch shopping chain. Doesn't exactly help when googling it.

>>1224741
>>1224740
never underestimate /k/'s ability to scream utter bullshit, regardless of the facts.


personally I feel you're in a catch-22 situation. An accurate rifle replica is going to be illegal under the law there, regardless of the weight. Any replica that isnt accurate, to save weight, is undesirable to you for accuracy.

My inclination therefore is that you need training/practice "weapons" that are close to the right weight, perhaps 4kg, but do not look anything like the actual ones (so, a stock, a steel rod where the barrel is, no bolt/trigger group), and people train with those, slightly lighter objects to get accustomed to doing the basic weight, before they then step up to training with the real thing.

Anything less, you're simply not going to be happy with the accuracy of the look when its on an actual reenactment field.

>>1224722

Like that previous Anon said: man up.

My military High School had 12 and 13 year olds performing silent 21 count drills. Hell, even some of the girls in the sister Academy did so.

You go ahead and let all those faggots you work with know that theyre literally more feminine then teenage girls.

As far as a DIY answer to your question, it can't and shouldn't be done.

>>1224704
Stuur iedereen die klaagt naar het echte leger, daar zijn de wapens een stuk lichter.

>>1224747
Kek fucking hillary cuck noguns beta commie cuck faggot

Don't make them lighter. Make them heavier until your noodle armed army can handle those. Then remove the weight.

>>1224715

>The purpose of reenacting is honor

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!! The purpose of reenactment is to have fun. Anything else is a lie you tell yourself when you buy a new toy.

>but muh veterans

Fuck you. If you cared so much about them you'd sell all that shut and donate the money to a military charity and spend your free time wiping their backsides at am old people's home.

>>1224704

If the laws are so autistic they don't allow you replicas, they're going to rape your face if you try to modify a deactivated one even if it's not visible.

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>>1224704
>So I tried finding replica rifles. Turns out those are super-duper illegal here according to the Weapons Law, because they are identical ''in shape and measurement to actual rifles''.
you can't even play with asg toys with the kids in netherlands?

>>1224788
huh, I thought only the US banned airsoft

>>1224704
if a gunsmith's blessing makes them legal, why not pay a gunsmith to weight-reduce them? i'm sure he'd be glad to make 200 euros each for replacing each barrel with an aluminum welding rod and hollowing out the stocks (which is a lot of your weight even if you don't think it is.)

>>1224942
>I thought only the US banned airsoft
Fucking what? Airsoft is almost completely unregulated in the US save two main laws.

>18 to buy
>orange tip for import

>>1224944
>orange tip
so in other words, double-secret illegal if "identical to actual rifles"
>18+
good luck playing them with the kids

Milling generous slots in the bottom of the original barrels would get rid of a lot of metal and could leave the welded plugs as-is. The 30mm plug length is short so you could probably reduce barrel weight considerably.

Also look into drilling or milling holes and slots from the bottom of any part you can reach. The gunsmith would know where to cut.

Easy operation on a milling machine and you could cut close to the opposite side. Any area covered by the stock is fair game for milling. You could also mill off hidden areas of the receiver.

also, for just practice drilling, the standard marching band solution is a plank carved to rough shape with a pipe strapped on. close enough in shape and balance, can be reduced to around 2 kilos with copper plumbing and cheap softwood, take around 30 minutes each of sawing and whittling to make, can even be used as step-up trainers by dropping slugs down the copper pipe and capping.

>>1224948
>so in other words, double-secret illegal if "identical to actual rifles"
>for import
There are no federal laws about keeping it orange after purchase. Some local laws may apply though. I could buy literally any airsoft gun and paint the tip and there's not a damn thing the cops could do about it. The law is just bullshit red tape for importers.

>>18+
>good luck playing them with the kids
>to buy
Buying is different than possession. No one is going to harass a bunch of 13 year olds playing with airsoft guns unless they're being stupid and shooting at bystanders/people's windows and shit.

Stop mouthing off about shit you know nothing about.

>>1224965
>th-the restrictions on me don't count because they're FREEDOM RESTRICTIONS! Make America Orange Again! Make America Orange Again!

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>>1224967
I'm sorry you're illiterate when it comes to legal definitions anon, but that's no reason to act like a cunt.

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>>1224764
Funny thing is, I've actually contacted the army asking for deactivated rifles (C7 & C8) but they're not exactly willing too.

Even better is that we got these Kar98k's from them when they were standardising on the FAL. They were trying to consolidate the mixture of small arms they had after WW2, and they just gave them away (not even deactivated) to the schutterijen (reenactment groups, basically).

>>1224788
Nice dubs, and airsoft was illegal here up untill a few years ago. Most airsoft stuff fell under the Category 1 ruling of the Weapons Law that outlaws everything identical ''in shape and measurement''. However, you can now get a permit for them. Even requires a background check iirc.

>>1224958
Now this is the kind of thinking I need. subtracting metal were the law doesn't say anything is a brilliant idea.

>>1224964
I've made 120 wooden rifles with PVC barrels already, pic related. We had to do some marching drill with kids who were still in elementary school, and I wasn't going to make 100+ rifle ''stocks'' by hand, so I used a water jet cutter. Instead of 30 minutes, I was down to 80 seconds each. I guess I could scale these up and weigh them down for practice.

>>1224965
And as far as Dutch law goes, I can't take new airsoft rifles (C7 or FALs, for example) and hollow them out. They'd still be airsoft ''weapons'', which means each and every member would need a permit to own hem, and the team would need a special permit to display them publicly.

Buying and posession are the same thing here, sadly: both outlawed if you don't have a permit. You can still shoot everything you want (airguns, guns, airsoft) under supervision, but owning is a big nono.

>>1224967

If you're not an importer or a child, what is being restricted?

>>1225146
If you practice with lighter rifles, then won't they screw up when it counts?

>>1225234
Not if they're weighted down, and not if we practice enough.

>>1225179
>If you're not being restricted, what's being restricted?

Ah yes, the classic "Fuck You; Got Mine" yankee fuckwit attitude.

Please leave.

>>1225146
Why not just use playfully colored airsoft or other toy guns? I'm sure people in the stands would be understanding of local laws, and not pitch a fit because all your rifles have orange tips or whatever.

>>1225247
>They'd still be airsoft ''weapons'', which means each and every member would need a permit to own hem, and the team would need a special permit to display them publicly.

>>1225249
>playfully colored
>still "identical" to real firearms
is this a thinly veiled /k/ LOL YUROPOOR NOGUNZ thread?

If the law really refers to replicas being IDENTICAL in shape and measurement, it might be interesting to research how much you'd need to alter the shape and size so it's no longer IDENTICAL to the real thing. Maybe shortening the wooden part by 1-2cm would suffice without onlookers noticing?

>>1225251
>Most airsoft stuff fell under the Category 1 ruling of the Weapons Law that outlaws everything identical ''in shape and measurement''.
I wish I was kidding you. The Netherlands probably has the most pants-on-head retarded gunlaws in all of Europe.

Meanwhile, with the right Category 2 permit, you can literally own artilerry pieces and machine guns. Since Category 2 permits are rare as fuck, there's no market for those guns and demand is low. We're one of the most restricted gun markets possible, yet machine guns usually trade for well below 1000 euros here. I've seen a 7.62x54R Maxim, including mount, sit in a gunshop for several years with a 750 euro pricetag - FYI, those Maxims are considered ''national heritage'' in Russia, they're forbidden from export, that means it's was a WW1 captured gun according to the stamps, it doesn't get any rarer than that. It's literally the inverse of the US situation.

>>1225252
Most toy guns for sale here are anywhere from 40 to 60% scale. Changing the scale by 5-10% would probably be asking for trouble.

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>>1225257
>identical ''in shape and measurement''.

>a hot pink and transparent clearsoft piece of shit

>identical in any way to a real gun

>>1225270
Still identical in shape and measurement. The law explicitly does not mention colour or material, so I couldn't even replace the steel barreled action with an aluminium replica.

>>1225247
>12 year olds aren't allowed to drink
>that means everyone is restricted even after they reach drinking age and have literally no restrictions on it save things related to being an asshole while doing it
>fucking fascists
This is literally your argument.

>Reenactment fags complaining about the weight
Have you tried shouting at them, or kicking them out if the group

>>1224948
i bought an airsoft rifle,pistol, and shotgun when i was in 7th grade the 18+ law probably only applies to california like everything else stupid.

>>1225476
It's not true reenactment though, that's just what I'm describing it as for the sake of this thread. I tried explaining the concept to foreigners, or even Dutch people from a different part of the country, and it baffles them.

Shouting or kicking them out isn't effective when you're outnumbered.

>>1225247

>businesses need to follow ever so slightly different regulations and literal children need adult permission
>fuck you, got mine

Sorry, not really seeing it.

How about taking a cast of one of these deactivated rifles in a high quality modelling silicone, then casting models in resin. Pretty sure you could do it, check out volpin props on YouTube, he does a lot of that - been following him since he was really diy

>>1225695
So... Play-marching and trying to look organized?

>Shouting or kicking them out isn't effective when you're outnumbered.
What are they going to do? Complain even more?

>>1226022
>Turns out those are super-duper illegal here according to the Weapons Law, because they are identical ''in shape and measurement to actual rifles''.
Also, they're a bit too awkwardly shaped to properly cast. I'd rather use a 3D scanner, print some parts, cast those, and then assemble them.

>>1226025
>Play-marching and trying to look organized?
Pretty much, with a bit of drinking and shooting.

>Complain even more?
No, stop coming, at which point I won't have any riflemen left.

>>1225280
This is a legal problem, not a DYI problem.

You need to find out what is the legal definitions of deactivation. As there are several methods.

If it's welding pins to the barrel, you could drill the barrel first and then weld pins to it.

Also how about deactivating replicas? If they are legally considered guns, then as guns, deactivating them should should make them legal. A aluminium barrel would weight less than steel barrel even when welded shut.

>>1226990
There is only 1 legal method of deactivation. It involves drilling the barrel crosswise, welding two 30mm long pins in the chamber and muzzle, and then welding the entire action shut. The rifles we have were officially deactivated in the 1970's.

Deactivating replicas is expensive, and nigh-on impossible, since there's no way to legally deactivate a single shot muzzleloader. The only stuff you can legally deactivate are break actions, single shot bolt actions, and magazine-fed bolt actions. Everything else can only be deactivated by sawing them in half lengthwise - but that doesn't make for good drillrifles.

Deactivating replicas therefore means I'd need to make one-off aluminium bolt-action replicas that are functional rifles (maybe in .22LR?), and then have a certified gunsmith deactivate those.

>>1226998
>There is only 1 legal method of deactivation. It involves drilling the barrel crosswise, welding two 30mm long pins in the chamber and muzzle, and then welding the entire action shut.

Then drilling the barrel lengthwise to outer diameter minus 3mm and then welding the 30mm pins to it would be a legal method of making a lighter drilling rifle.

You would have to hire a gunsmith to do it, but there is no cheaper way to accomplish what you want as cheap options are against the law

Your problem cannot be solved with DIY engineering, it needs solving with social engineering. If 16 year olds are not physically strong enough for the requirements of the role, then 16 year olds can not participate.

Final bump

>>1227004
The problem is that it's more of a social club than the actual focus on reenactment, being period correct and looking good. Can't solve that by restricting it to 18 year olds.

>>1227002
Given that we've got a few experienced machinists in our club willing to do the work, they can do that at the gunsmith's shop under his supervision, that'd save some bucks. Having him re-deactivate the rifles is the legal (and financial) pain in the ass.

>>1224704
I have an idea, but I'm not sure if it's legal in the netherlands.

Are you aware of the G88 (the K98's pre-predecessor)? They had a sort of "sleeve" made of sheet metal around the barrel. Now the way those are sometimes deactivated here is that the chamber is cut / drilled open (or sometimes rebored for 8mm blank cartridges), the barrels cut off in front of it and at the muzzle and the muzzle inserted back into the sleeve. That way, instead of a thick-walled barrel, they only have a 1mm thick sheet metal pipe for most of the length, making them far lighter to handle.

My idea would be to do something similiar to the k98, by having a gunsmith cut of the barrel in front of the deactivated portion and right behind the front sight (5min with an angle grinder), put a steel pipe between them (easiest way would be to use wood or plastic plugs in the remnants of the barrel, but turning sown the barrel until the pipe fits snugly over it would look better ba far) and smooth over the transition by polishing and bluing the whole thing.

Other than that, you could drill out the stock under the buttpad, drill out part of the receiver (which at least here in germany is one of the ways of legally deactivating a rifle).

If the guns are to heavy when marching, adjusting the slings might also help.

Of course, you could also change to wooden or plastic toy rifles. Just paint them in pink camo and give them to everybody who even thinks about complaining about the weight of the steel ones. Soon you'll hear no more complaints. (of course, that might be because you'll no longer have members).

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>>1228231
I'm aware of the G88's barrel shroud, should have thought of that. Might be a solution I could talk about with the gunsmith.

Drilling into the receiver on a wartime production K98k isn't really what I'm looking for. They'll go out of service eventually, and that would ruin their historical value for a museum. I've tried removing the buttpads, but they're firmly in place.

Adjusting the slings isn't exactly useful when the rules say you have to carry them like pic related. Rifles have to be carried with your elbow at a 90 degree angle, which means you're supporting those 5-6kgs directly with your biceps for an hour or two at a time.

Obvious pink fakes to encourage the troops are a good idea, might even encourage our new female members. Then again, it's going to cost us point when we're being judged during the schutzenfeste.

Thanks for your help Germanbro!

With all due respect, your laws are retarded. You should change your laws.
>/diy/ - democraticise yourself

Didn't occur to anyone to just use color guard plastic / wood rifles?

http://www.fjminc.com/store/colorguard/equipment/rifles.html

These should be fake enough to only vaguely resemble a rifle, skirting your Nancy gun laws, as well as being well balanced for regular marching maneuvers.

I believe that the nobler quest would try making them even heavier.

>>1224780
God damnit, I told you to stay in the dungeon.

Sorry guys, he must have slipped out.

As for OP's situation >>1224747 is right, you really have your hands tied. you can't modify without going into replica territory.

Best thing you might be able to do is replace them with more deactivated guns, but nothing else would be lighter. i would suggest somthing with synthetic furniture but the balance would be way off.

Tell the kids to bulk up i guess

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>>1228729
>i would suggest somthing with synthetic furniture but the balance would be way off

>I would suggest putting plastic furniture on 70 year old early war Kar98k's

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>>1228730
god damnit, sorry guys, looks like another one got out.

>>1228765
I'm OP, just messing with you. Been on /k/ since... I dunno, a decade by now?

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>>1228769
Been about 5 years or so for me, it is my main home though, don't leave it much. Personally i'd rather see the rifles given new life as something people can use than fed to the forge.

it looks like /diy/ has answered your question though, the kids are just gonna have to deal with it. I'd say hit up /fit/ to get some exercises for them, but I hear those guys are kinda nuts

>>1228779
>Personally i'd rather see the rifles given new life as something people can use than fed to the forge.
They're not going to be thrown away, there's plenty of museums that'll want them. Hell, since they were previously used by the Dutch Marines, they'll probably be welcome at the National Military Museum - if you follow Forgottenweapons, you can see some of the cool stuff they have in that collection.

I'll find a solution eventually, but it won't be on /fit/. Those gays are gay, and that's coming from a seasoned /k/ veteran.

>>1224704
Have you looked into replica pellet or sordid guns manufacturers? That might be close to what you are looking for.

>>1224704
Get a weather balloon filled with helium and tie it to the rifle

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You do realize that marching bands across the U.S. have this figured out, right? Just search "marching rifle". They're used by color guards.

op just go down to the nearest weird street food vending machine and get loadsa protein and shove it down those kids' gobs

>>1229076
It seems like the problem is that would be a gun-shaped object that is not registered with the proper authorities, and thus he would be a criminal in his country for owning one.

>>1229044
Replica pellet guns are prohibited because they look like real guns.

Sordid guns? What?

>>1229059
I like your thinking.

>>1229076
>>1229142
Those are actually allowed here, but they're fake and gay.

>>1229160
> Fake and gay
Also your only currently viable option, fggt.

>>1229160
They're only as fake and gay as you make them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyyu4TbsxAk

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>>1224726
>Barrel needs to original, plugged on both ends (chamber and muzzle) with a 30mm long pin , and welded shut.