clausing lathe

>>1222399
>if i got it i would just get a single phase motor for it

What are you, gay? Get a VFD for that sweet speed control.

>>1222402
nigga a vfd wont magically give me 2 extra phases

>>1222403

An inverter VFD will actually do just that. Literally the first hit on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HITACHI-WJ200-015SF-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-2-HP-230-VAC-SINGLE-PHASE-INPUT-/142450816175?epid=1001591496&hash=item212abaf4af:g:MQQAAOSwax5Yz9fM

Chinese ones can be had for like $110 at 2hp.

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>>1222407
well shit guess im the asshole and that makes my life a hell of a lot easier and cheaper
my b anon

>>1222399
you're gonna want a tailstock for it.

buy it, but you probably don't know how to inspect nor have the tools to do so...

Even so it's probably worth more than $250 sold piece-by-piece on ebay or even as scrap metal.

>>1222410
ill see what he does and doesnt have for it but im ready to spend a quite a few bucks on tooling and accessories, even moreso if i can get a good lathe for 1/10th what it probably should cost. i have somewhat of an idea what im looking for, but yeah for 250 i could probably restore it and come in under budget or resell it and make a buck

>>1222414
take it out of gear and make sure the spindle turns, push on the chuck and see if it moves side-to-side or up/down

>>1222408
As long as the input terminals are over rated for the current you're good. Typically 3 to 5 hp from single phase.

Vfds convert to DC and then to 3 phase.

>>1222407
if the motor is over 7hp it will require a rotary phase converter or 3-phase power.

since it's a rather small lathe it's probably not

>>1223122
>if the motor is over 7hp it will require a rotary phase converter or 3-phase power.

Inverter VFDs are made in rather large sizes. I recall at least one catalogue that listed them up to 150HP, when I was browsing for one to use on my router.

There might be some de-rating involved when running off single-phase, but the upper limit for single-to-three-phase VFDs is certainly not 7HP.

>>1223568

>hurr durr 150hp is totally possible from single phase. It's only 111600 W. It must be true I saw it in a catalog.

God I hate you google scholar hippies. You'd be lucky to get 10 kva to a residence.

>7hp is not the limit

Nope it's not. But it's comes out to as a 50 amp connection at 240v. Starts to hit practical limits in residential installations which you obviously know nothing about. If not everyone would be flaunting 10 hp spindles on their shitty cncs.

>might be some de rating involved.

Obviously never done this so I'll clue you in.

The conversion from single to 3 phase current is a factor of about 1.7. The input terminals of the drive will have to handle the higher single phase current in order to provide the same amount in 3 phase. This is not so common after 7hp, because the terminals get huge. Then there's the limitation of residential breakers which are all 80% usage.

Catalog degrees get you nowhere Senpai

>>1223977
I mean I'm not that guy, but I assumed you could get a VFD for a machine lets say 45HP and power it at a residence.

I'm glad you proved me wrong. I would have hated to buy a 45k machine and find out I couldn't use it without having a fucking facility with 3phase or it run to my house. Both of which would probably cost as much as the fucking machine itself.

>>1223992
With single phase, 45hp, it's possible. But you'll want a rotary phase converter. You can always attach your vfd to this if you like but you'll want to de rate à bit. The phase converter is not a true 3 phase source but it's darn close.

http://www.phaseconverter.com/rotary-converter.sizing/

If you look at the chart you're pretty much at max of your entire service for "50hp". You normally don't get more than 200 amps but it is possible depending where you live. Usually it's less. This is a chat you have with your utility. Tbh I'd rather get a 3 phase utility connection instead.

The concept of providing residential 3 phase with a vfd, above 7-10hp using single phase 240v, blows my brains. Even the rotary phase converter trick can get a bit much when demanding around 40- 50hp depending on the type of load.

Be cheaper IMO for the diy to get a 3 phase 600v or 480v fossil fuel burning generator if the service wasn't available at those demands. At least the cabling wouldn't be so crazy.

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>>1223977

I like how you bother to type this out, assume I'm not aware of the typical limits of residential wiring, and completely ignore the fact that your bit about "hurr durr rotary phase converter" doesn't help with that problem, either.

No shit you're going to have to put in some new wiring if you're trying to run industrial equipment. If that had been your point to begin with (rather than stating some nonexistant limitation of the equipment itself), you could have saved us both some time.

By the way, a 50A outlet on 240V nets you 12kVA, or ~16HP (when ignoring power factor). So uh, you might want to take some advice from the Google Scholar hippies and hit up their built-in calculator for a refresh on your kindergarten math.

Jackass.

After a certain point it makes more sense to run a generator to make your own 3 phase power rather than try to get three phase drawn to your house. >Plan on machining, turn on generator, have power as long as you need it. You could easily repurpose a motorcycle engine or a car engine for pretty cheap. A dingy car engine making 150 hp will run you $400, which is a far run from a rotary converter or vfd that can handle 50+hp

>>1224102
>I like how you assumed 150hp is possible from single phase in a residence.

>I like how I never mentioned rotary phase converters in that post so I have no idea what your going on about.

>I like how you think input current rating on the terminals are a non existant limitation

>I like how you assumed I said a 50 amp connection calculates to 7hp when it's only about the provisions in a residential application. And no the same connection would harbour 12 hp not 16hp. But you're gonna read this post like your text books or my last post - badly.

>and just for fun I like how you mention pf with a vfd application. How does that even apply Senpai? Twice now, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about but you're still trying to desperately make some valid point. Just like a Google scholar. No concept of reality beyond ohms law.

I like you. Keep posting, Senpai.

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>>1224230
>I like how you assumed 150hp is possible from single phase in a residence.

Are you high? I never said or implied anything of the sort.

>I like how I never mentioned rotary phase converters in that post so I have no idea what your going on about.

I assumed you were >>1223122. If not, I apologize.

>I like how you think input current rating on the terminals are a non existant limitation

I didn't said they weren't, just that it was trivially easy to find a VFD that could manage a >7HP motor, derating or no.

>I like how you assumed I said a 50 amp connection calculates to 7hp when it's only about the provisions in a residential application

Gee, I'm so fucking sorry that "But it's comes out to as a 50 amp connection at 240v" didn't translate into English as well as you'd hoped.

>And no the same connection would harbour 12 hp not 16hp

I'm genuinely curious as to how you figure 12kW ends up being 12HP. Do tell.

>and just for fun I like how you mention pf with a vfd application. How does that even apply Senpai?

It's besides the point, but, I dunno, maybe the same way it ALWAYS applies for a load that isn't purely resistive (or looks like it). But, no, that wasn't there to refer to specifically to a VFD so much as it was to deter any "muh real vs. ideal" stupidity.

>I like you. Keep posting, Senpai.

fight me faggot

>>1224520
Wow ur such a dumass.

You implied (badly) 150hp vfds are available and they could be fed by single phase here:
>>1223568

So I pounced on you. For fun at first but then you made it personal.

Next point, naw that wasn't me, this is me:
>>1224097


OK I'll help you do some reality checks.

(single phase current) * sqrt(3) = 3 phase current

You can't de rate a fucking vfd. It uses a DC link. Means there's a bridge feeding a big fuckin cap bank (to be ultra simple). You can tell it to output less but not take less on the input. The fucking input terminals have to handle it. Bro do you even vfd?

You can't trivially find a vfd that can handle >7hp and take single phase. The terminals would have to take 1.7 * nominal nameplate current rating for that. Its not common after a certain size. You might find 10 but it's fuckin hard, especially at 240 single phase. I know, cause I'm still looking around. I've built a few machines with vfds and it's not an easy thing to find.

Next point:

I said it 3x now, residential breakers start their thermo-magnetic time over current trip curve @ 80%. That's how u get 12.something hp vs your 16hp on a 50 amp plug. If this was an industrial setup then ok, ud get 50 amps then the trip curve starts. Go on clamp one tell me what you learn. Getting your head out of those catalogs might teach you something.

Vfds are super complex igbt devices. They adjust for pf. Don't even need a starting cap bro, even with 1000hp 600v or 4160v motors under load. So pf pretty much goes out the window.

>fight me faggot

If I wanted to I'd have already. Instead I'm trying to stop you from making a fool yourself and misleading guys like this:
>>1223992

Besides these are seriously mundane facts you learn in the field, but are not explicit in any code book, text book, blue or white collar school. Don't feel bad Senpai, nothing wrong with being a noob to the field. Most catalog engineers are.

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>>1224563

Okay, this is the last response I'm giving, because you have to be either a troll, willfully ignorant, or outright retarded.

>You implied (badly) 150hp vfds are available and they could be fed by single phase here:

Literally the first link on google for "150HP VFD" turns up, unsurprisingly, an ad link to https://www.driveswarehouse.com/. They offer VFDs up to 500HP. The second link turns up (holy shit) a listing for a 150HP VFD. http://www.vfds.com/100hp-150hp-460v-mitsubishi-vfd-frf74001800na'

Not even going to bother explaining this one:

https://www.google.com/search?q=derating+vfd+for+single+phase+input&ei=I6aKWfvOCaTJjwTY14bQBQ&start=30&sa=N&biw=1887&bih=2045

Skip the first couple pages of results to dodge questions on forums about using a VFD on single phase. For fuck's sake, one of the main selling points of a VFD _is_ that they provide a way to run 3-phase motors off single-phase, obviating the need for a phase converter (for a single machine, anyway).

>you can't de rate a fucking vfd. It uses a DC link.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHY YOU CAN DERATE THEM AND RUN THEM ON SINGLE-PHASE. The fact that the incoming AC is rectified means that what sort of power it receives is somewhat arbitrary, However...

>The fucking input terminals have to handle it. Bro do you even vfd?

The input terminals have NOTHING to do with it. If the contact resistance of the terminals is so high that the 3x increase in resistive heating fucks them up, there was something wrong in the first place. The problem with running them on single phase is the fact that the output of the rectifier crosses zero along with the input. On 3-phase, the output voltage of the rectifier never drops below 50% of the peak voltage. Because of this, the peak current feeding the HV DC bus is much higher on single-phase than 3-phase, even if the average current would be the same. This causes significantly more heat, thus the need for de-rating.

>>1224575
(Con't.)

>I said it 3x now, residential breakers start their thermo-magnetic time over current trip curve @ 80%.

Valid point, but ultimately irrelevant. Again, if you're planning on stuffing something 10HP+ into your garage, it's already assumed you're going to need to add a dedicated circuit to accommodate it. The fact that you have to use an 80A breaker instead of a 50A doesn't mean it's now somehow impossible to do.

>Vfds are super complex igbt devices. They adjust for pf.

Yeah, that's great. I'd add more, but given that you're still on about that when I already explained that I only mentioned it to prevent a particular bit of stupid, I'll refrain. Doing so appears to has generated a different bit of stupid instead, unfortunately.

>I'm trying to stop you from making a fool yourself and misleading guys like this

There's no reason he couldn't run a 45HP piece of equipment off a residential service, technically. That's only 140A at 240V. Many houses are supplied with 200A panels. McMansions tend to come with 300A service.

I mean, I'd check with the power company to make sure that he could actually get it from the pole first, of course. I can't imagine why you'd want to bother with a machine so horrendously overpowered for home shop use, but there isn't actually anything stopping you from doing something that crazy.

>I know, cause I'm still looking around. I've built a few machines with vfds and it's not an easy thing to find.

I don't know why I'm being nice, but...oh, wait, yes I do, I'm not being nice, I'm just doing this to further the point that you're a moron.

Literally the first result for "derating vfd single phase":

http://www.dartcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/De-Rating-VFD-for-Single-Phase-Power.pdf

Go buy a 20HP VFD. There you go, you now have a VFD that will run a 10HP motor off single phase.

>>1224575
>http://www.vfds.com/100hp-150hp-460v-mitsubishi-vfd-frf74001800na'

o no I made a typo now my entire stance is invalidated and I am wrong REEEEEEEEEEEE

http://www.vfds.com/100hp-150hp-460v-mitsubishi-vfd-frf74001800na

>>1224581
>>1224577
>>1224575

Also YES I'm aware that those massive VFDs won't work on residential 240V, so don't even start. It was just to make the point that they do, in fact, exist at power levels over 9000.

>>1224575
>The input terminals have NOTHING to do with it. (etc.)

FUCK I forgot to clarify that that was for the same input current. For the same OUTPUT, you also have to deal with the fact that the current through the two active sections of the rectifier will be higher, which not only increases heat in those sections, but which also exacerbates the ripple problem on the DC bus.

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That price is a screaming deal.

Stop babbling about high output converters OP will never use. That little Clausing although it's got no tail stock will be fine for his purpose and it's dirt cheap. They are well made industrial lathes.

OP, remember lathes are tippy and somewhat dangerous to move, even little ones.

If you bring two four-foot pieces of channel or similar and bolt the feet to the channel, you can move the lathe with much less risk of tipping. If you attach casters (bolt them, don't weld) which I strongly recommend, you can move the lathe easily to its final location.

Pic shows how I move machine tools without paying a rigger. It's safe, stable and inexpensive.

Raise one end of lathe, bolt to (green in pic) outrigger, then repeat other end. The grinder shown uses channel beneath it and is raised into position by long allthread, but a lathe won't need that setup.

You will still need to lift the lathe. Prybars and wooden blocks and shims work well but take it slow because you can't afford to break off parts by dropping the lathe. That Clausing weighs several hundred pounds. Do not tip it sideways when shimming it to clear your outriggers. Do leave your casters unbolted from the outriggers until they are bolted to the lathe feet. Then you can raise the lathe to slide them under, or you can skid the outriggers on pipe or tubing placed parallel to the lathe.

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New metal is reasonable at most local metal suppliers. Casters are usually expensive (for a hobbyist) new so I try to get them used but they would be worth buying new.

Lathe in pic is several thousand lbs. I had to make this setup a skid because caster wheels would punch through the rotten borrowed trailer decking or shop floor in transit to the final location. Lathe is bolted to orange channel which is tack welded to gray pipe.

For OPs small Clausing you could bolt the outriggers to the feet if using channel then skid them on pipe.

Have a plan. Figure out what resources you have available. Save your moving kit and add to it as you move more tools.

Make sure that lathe CANNOT fucking tip. You can't catch it if it does so be ready to GTFO the way.

If moving with multiple people, have one boss and don't bullshit. You need to be on-task. Make very slow movements until you have a feel for how your load behaves.

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Also remember you can't jack the lathe by the chip pan because you'll bend the shit out of it. If seller has an overhead hoist or a fork lift you can lift the lathe by using slings or HEAVY duty cargo straps at least 2" wide.

Image search "moving a Bridgeport" for some ingenious techniques. Yes, I know BPs are mills but that string will get you many useful ideas.

I've moved lathes, mills and grinders my way and I've never seen anyone else use a method that stable so I tell the world. BP in pic weighs about 2,000 lbs.

>>1222399
OP should get the model number and search for manuals if one doesn't come with the lathe. Machinists usually save those.

Also, from now on go to home shop machinist and machinist forums. There are too many trolls and yungdumbcunts on /diy/.

Practical Machinist is a professional forum but well worth your time to study. New machinists should check out the metrology section in particular.

>>1224563
>>1224097
I would like to add that "static phase converters" rate their max horsepower about double the HP rating of the motor it can run, rotary phase converters sometimes use a similar system.

I have an American Rotary AR-20 rotary phase converter, it can start and run a 10 HP motor.

>>1224607
vintagemachinery.org has a good selection of manuals to download (free)

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>>1222414
as far as restoration goes, I just took the cross-slide, cross-slide screw, and nut off my Pratt and Whitney model C.

The gib was floating in and out like 1/4 inch, I just thought there was a lot of wear on the saddle dovetail so it needed it.

It still tightened up near the ends though, anyway after I got the screw out it was obvious it was worn the fuck out.

I cleaned it all and put it back together, then I noticed that with the tapered gib floating about 1/4 the cross-slide was sliding freely across the whole length of the saddle dovetail.

So I put the screw and nut back on loosely, and tightened the gib up until it didn't rock and there was about zero backlash.

Eureka, it easily slides freely across the entire travel of the saddle dovetail with zero backlash.

Turns out someone tightened the nut so damn much it was the only thing holding the cross-slide in place. It wore the screw out in the middle and that's why it was tightening up at the ends.

Don't be afraid to take it apart, OP. Plenty of dumbasses owned the machine before you, in most cases.