Repair guy satisfaction contract

Maybe it's just a gimmick that his company has? 100% satisfaction or you don't pay a dime! The catch being that once you sign, you're "satisfied", on paper at least. Now pay the man.
Companies like that make their money if other ways; you can't lose money on every job to make every single fucking customer 100% happy, it's just not possible.

>>1216581
>changing out the capacitor
don't die on us

>>1216581
>Am I just being an autismo here?
fuck no, unless he pointed it out at the beginning he was a cunt to spring it on you at the end.
you shouldn't sign anything for no reason, especially shouldn't sign things that aren't true!

>>1216581
>I cleaned out the AC filter

What type of air filter do you have? Because one does not normally clean the filter, they replace the filter. Unless of course you have an electrostatic gimmick in which case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuiboxpYqZg

>Also thinking of changing out the capacitor in the AC myself. $250 for him to do it. Probably $40 for me to.
Don't know what you have but capacitors are indeed extremely cheap, 55+5 is only like $20. $250 seems high for my area but it could be different in your area.

That said you can get into a world of shit if you don't know how to handle a capacitor or screw up when reconnecting the leads. In tech school it was my favorite problem to put in a unit was something like reversed capacitor leads. Then students would spend hours trying to figure out why it didn't work.

>starter kit
Seems odd for an inspection; normally these are for trying to milk a few more years out of nearly dead units.

>>1216606
You can just do good job that satisfies the customer and quote appropriately for your work.... Jesus Christ we're not all out to get you...

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>>1216606
I paid him before he asked me to sign the document. It was on the receipt. That is why I said "I already paid you - I don't see why I have to sign something".

>>1216628
yeah good point. I know I'll need to safely discharge the cap. I've done some audio repair, but yes - definitely wary of that.

>>1216668
I don't know - I'm sure I misquoted him. See pic for what he did.

>>1216668
>starter kit

He said the compresser was drawing 136 start amps, which was higher than it was rated for, and a sign of an older compressor. With a starter kit it was only drawing 72 amps. The higher amps are a problem because it could burn out the wiring coils. ( I'm paraphrasing here ). I mean if it keeps my compressor going for a few more years, seems like a no-brainer to do it.

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>>1217063
piece of crap, I rotated that before posting it. not sure why it posted in that orientation here.

>>1216581
>Am I just being an autismo here?
No.

> I've had repair people fuck stuff up before, and I figure eventually someone will be like "well, you signed saying you were 100% satisfied with the work".
That's why they do it.

>Also thinking of changing out the capacitor in the AC myself. $250 for him to do it. Probably $40 for me to.
>Not sure about the other stuff, so I'll probably pay for it ( Starter kit, 2 lbs freon )
You do you.

>>1217061
Wow, you fucking kike. That poor spic cleared your condensate line, cleaned the outdoor coil, charged you with R2fucking2, and only charged you $59.00 and you had the jew balls to be an asshole to him and not even tip. Then you vent here?!? Are you the one man creampie cleanup crew for your wife's gangbang, or were you just born to Jew?

>>1217074
Edit: my apologies, I saw that he only recommended charging the AC. Everything else I meant from the bottom of my heart.

>>1217076
Thanks, appreciate your feedback! What is an appropriate tip?

Should he charge me more? $60 seems to be a standard inspection, which they want us to do every 6 months.

>>1217074
He didn't charge me, the company he works for did. He makes a salary I'm guessing. I expect the company might break even on inspections, but that brings in new customers and helps ensure you get the repairs from your current ones.

It didn't even occur to me to tip. I didn't realize that was a thing. I mean like, if a guy hooks up cable, I tip? Or fixes my fridge? I tip? Do I tip my lawn guys too? how much?

>>1217083
>It didn't even occur to me to tip. I didn't realize that was a thing.

You must not have a working class background.

>>1217091
You don't tip repair men. You fucking pay them for the work they did. Jesus Christ

>>1217100
If they did a good job without being Jews you can tip them.

If you had signed that, and something fucked up, when you called them, all you'd hear us some smug prick on the other end of the line asking why you signed off on the work if it wasn't done correctly.

>>1217091
correct. honestly, we did most of our own repairs around the house, except electrical because my dad almost killed himself when he was younger working on wiring. my family owned apartments, so we were always working on them, tarring roofs shit like that. If we need people we'd hire mexicans from home depot.

with that said - what is an appropriate tip? With mexicans you just gave them a free meal which my mom or grandma would make.

>>1217106
I know right? I work in a business where if someone signs off on something, your work is fucking done, and it is their problem now.

>>1217105
>If they did a good job without being Jews you can tip them.

Who the fuck tips a repair man? They get paid and they don't have to suck your ass by refilling your tea every five minutes.

I paint houses and it's demeaning when some slob hands me a 20 like he's making my day. I get paid to do a good job. I know when to ask for a shot of black and other shit. I don't need no insulting 20 dollar crap "here, have lunch on me".

>>1217192
Spoken like a true pro. This Anon knows his shit.

>>1217192
>I know when to ask for a shot of black
What does this mean?

Actually, I would feel insulted if I did some work for a motherfucker and he just gave me $20 for no reason. Outside of my job I install I do carpentry, plumbing, work on cars and basically whatever else I'm asked to do. Been doing it for years as a hobby, better to make money having fun than sit on my ass playing vidya and finishing off a 30 pack in a weekend. I do a good job, I give prices that are fair for them and myself. If some rich dude gives me an extra $20 on top of a $600 job I feel like it's pity. Some exceptions, if I put up with any bullshit or they're old(old people sometimes just like giving money). One time a remodeled this guys kitchen over 8 weekends and a few nights after work. Came up with the layout installed new cabinets, ceramic tile, redid the plumbing in copper to match the rest of the house, up to date wiring, installed 2 ground rods, drywall, painting, finished everything up real nice. I was going to profit $4000 and he threw an extra grand on top because he was so happy. He said even though it took so long I saved him a bunch of money and he thought it was beautiful.

Back when my buddy had a shop with a lift I swapped a transmission out of this guy's work truck. $400 in labor, he gave me $418 over 2 payments. He was a fucking dick the whole time too. He laughed and said "i gave you enough to get an extra case."

>>1217275

It's so people know you're a pro.

>>1216581
>Capacitor
>$40
WOWEE LOOKIT THIS GOY
they're like 10-15 bucks. He's raping you.

>>1217105
This jew is tricking you. OP, don't fall for his shit.

>>1217192
As a former mechanic at a very small garage, tips were my lifeblood. All of the cab drivers tipped because they paid a lower hourly rate than normal customers.
If some old lady wanted to tip me 10 bucks to check the air in her tires, that's 10 bucks that the IRS didn't get their hands on.

>>1217192
>I get paid to do a good job. I know when to ask for a shot of black

fucking yes. That's at least 3 threads, the requisite meme status has been reached

>>1217351
It is definitely different when you run your own company, I would never tip a contractor. But I can at least see it some guy from [big local company] did something cool for you. It does seem weird to be tipping for a service I just paid for, but I can at least see it in that situation.

those of you who tip - let's say he comes back after I've paid them to do the fixes - do I tip $20?

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>>1217369
>they're like 10-15 bucks. He's raping you.
>paying 10 bucks is getting raped

>>1217435
> fucks up the first time
> pay him extra to make it right

>>1217449
he didn't fuck up. he quoted me for fixes I need.

>>1217397
But you're required to report tips anon

>>1217450
Yeah, and you paid 59 bucks for that quote. What makes you think he wasn't getting paid while giving you that service?

>>1217452
yes, he was paid for that time. he works for a company. He also serviced the AC. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

>>1217451
if they're not on paper, it didn't hapen

>>1217451
Think of it as buying someone a pack of cigarettes or a cup of coffee, but in the form of money, which will be spent on coffee and cigarettes anyway.

>>1216668
>reverse cap leads
Run and start caps on a/cs aren't polarity sensitive.
Please explain

>>1217642
>Run and start caps on a/cs aren't polarity sensitive.

Probably means mixing up the start/run terminals on the dual caps.

>>1217074
I'm with this guy, that ridiculous man, he didn't install anything, why wouldn't you sign the dudes paper.

>>1217078
>every six months

You've called this company before, did you sign before?

>>1217083
Are you a fucking baby boomer? This guy definitely does not make salary, probably max $14/hr. You tip based on what you feel the guy was worth to you in the service he offered.

Was he quick? Polite? Hygenic? Punctual? $10 tip. I'm not saying the guy needs a second paycheck, but he's going to get chewed out for you not signing his paper.

He probably considered quiting like I do when I run into people like you contracting. Or switching to commercial only work, where the facility you do work for knows they have to sign your paper.

Man what a dick.

>>1218386
>You tip based on what you feel the guy was worth to you in the service he offered.

jesus fucking christ. this tipping mentality. at some point you have to assume that the guy is competent and honest.

Do you actually run out there and inspect every fucking detail, test the unit, whatnot, to decide whether to hand him a five or a 20????

>>1218386
because I don't sign stuff just to make other people happy.

>You've called this company before, did you sign before?
I haven't called this company before

>Are you a fucking baby boomer?
No, sorry. My point about salary was that the price of the inspection has nothing to do with his salary. So it wasn't like he cut me some deal on the inspection.

> where the facility you do work for knows they have to sign your paper.
That's a really good point. I'd be a lot more likely to signing off on his work if I knew that it was coming, instead of handing me a document to sign

1) after I have paid
2) as he is literally on his way out, without appropriate time given for me to review the doc, his work, etc.

>Was he quick? Polite? Hygenic? Punctual? $10 tip.

Yes, until he got his panties in a bunch about the document. But Thanks, this is useful info.

>I'm not saying the guy needs a second paycheck, but he's going to get chewed out for you not signing his paper.

I doubt it, and I also followed up and spoke to the company. I made it explicitly clear that he did a good job, and why I didn't sign the document. They said it wasn't a problem, that it was mostly for contracts where they would be billing the client afterwards ( and so they didn't have payment problems ).

>He probably considered quitting like I do when I run into people like you contracting.

If the worst thing that happened to him that day was me politely saying I wouldn't sign the document, and that it wasn't a reflection on his work - I'm guessing he had a pretty good day. But I don't know, you sound pretty angry, so maybe anyone disagreeing with you throws you into a tizzy.

>>1216628
As an HVAC service tech, all you have to do is literally unplug the disconnect on the side of his house near the unit, and pull the wires from the top and swap them out. The company I work for charges $300 for this, it can be done for the cost of the capacitor which is usually $20-$100

>>1217065
How old is your unit that you are still using R-22?

>>1217063
The only time a hard start kit is necessary is when your compressor won't start. They pretty much just add 150 micro farads upon startup giving it a little boost to get it going. I normally get 1-5 years extra out of a compressor when I do this. If you replace the capacitor and the compressor still won't start, then go ahead with the hard start.

>>1218448
While r22 is being phased out of production in 2020, it is still the most common refrigerant out there for light commercial. I have been retrofitting 407c for poe oil and r438a(mo99) for mineral oil systems when I need a new charge. Not always economical to replace an 8-10 year old unit. I know they want to phase out r410a as well but I don't think a viable replacement is there.

>>1218490
The compressor starts fine, he just said it was pulling too many amps, and that the capacitor is right at the edge of where manual says should replace it. dumb question: why not just put in a bigger cap, or two in parallel instead of some $300 "hard start kit".

FWIW, when we had the house inspected we brought in a separate AC guy. He said that we have a 5 ton unit for a 4 ton house ( or something like that ) , and that it meant the AC was having to work extra hard because of how the vents were designed. He said "the oil is starting to turn acidic" or something. We tried to negotiate with the sellers about the AC, but they didn't budge. I'm not sure if that could have something to do with the extra amps it pulls on start up.

>>1218448
well guess it must be before 2010 right? although this is AZ, so I can see the previous owner installing a "cheaper" R-22 unit in 2012.

>>1218492
I don't doubt what you're saying for a second, but this is a residential unit. His system would have to be at least older than 20 years.

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>>1218495
The hard start kits are specifically designed to take themselves out of the circuit after startup. What you propose is possible with a potential relay but pointless and more money. Adding a bigger capacitor is a bad idea because the capacitor you need replaced is the RUN capacitor not the START capacitor. The hard start kit helps the START winding.

>>1218500
Wrong. There were residential and commercial units with r22 produced up to 2010. Still extremely prevalent out there in the united states.

>>1218504
ok thanks. In theory though, would a larger Start capacitor, or putting a second one in parallel do the trick?

why is the relay necessary to take it out of the circuit, since the start cap already removes itself after start?

>>1218506
> In theory though, would a larger Start capacitor, or putting a second one in parallel do the trick?
I have never tried. We in the field don't experiment with jerry rigged repairs because we are hired to fix things the correct and designed way. If the capacitor in your unit now is reading less than 6% of the nameplate rating, it is time to be replaced. If your compressor is starting, your tech is selling you snake oil on the start kit.

>>1217091
Either that or you come from a country where you are paid a liveable wage not forced to rely on tips. I've never tipped anybody in my life

>>1216581
paid $50 for a new cap on my AC unit here in GA. Unit was not working, HVAC guy came out spun the fan with a stick and the AC started. He's like, "yeap you need a new cap" I told him to get the AC on its 94 degrees outside. 10 minutes later the AC works, and he hands me a bill for 50 smacks. I was turning cartwheels. Whenever I have an HVAC problem again I'll call that guy.

>>1218512

>If the capacitor in your unit now is reading less than 6% of the nameplate rating, it is time to be replaced
He said it was borderline and did not need to be replaced.

>If your compressor is starting, your tech is selling you snake oil on the start kit

It starts.

What does "drawing too many amps" mean? Why would it draw more amps if it is going bad? Why is drawing "too many amps" a problem?

Just curious.

>>1218506
A compressor for ac and fridges generally has 2 different windings joined at a common point. One is small and is what runs the compressor during normal operation, the other is large and is only used to start the compressor. When you first turn one on it used both windings to get it up and pumping then the start device shuts off power to the start winding leaving the run winding on. All this is so that it uses less power when running. A hard start device has a capacitor in it that gives the start winding a bigger electrical kick so to speak and helps it get going.

Fwiw I do appliance repair and not home ac, but I do a lot of fridges and usually if it's drawing more amps on startup or while it's running then it's something in the compressor or the sealed system.. if the start device we're going out is excpext it not to start the compressor.. on a fridge you'd hear a short 10~20 second hum followed by a click as the overload tripped.. in a few minutes the overload would reset and then the whole thing would repeat. If the compressor is drawing high amps during operation then I'd suspect either an airflow restriction or possibly the system is overcharged, or the compressor itself is going out in which case you pretty much wait till it dies and till then start saving to replace it... but again I do fridge repair so take it with a grain of salt...

>>1218492
Lucky bastard in appliance repair they're phasing out 134A In 2020 and most everyone is going to r600 so now we have to look into fucking mechanical fastening kits because some idiot is gonna try and debraze a 600 butane system and burn down a fucking house...

>>1217414
How does everyone know this meme already? I feel like the whole of /diy/ is just 10 guys

Unbelievable there are those who get upset with tips. Yes we get paid for a good job and tips are not expected. We all like money-if you don't go volunteer your life away. Money is a great way to show appreciation. I got tipped $50 for running out on a weekend not long ago and fixing a customers problem. They were very appreciative and I always turn it down a tip at least once letting them know it isn't necessary. Makes my day though when someone goes out of their way to show how thankful they are, even if it isn't money. Offering a bottle of cold water or other drink on a hot day is appreciated just the same.

As far as signing a paper I can see your point but if everything was done to your satisfaction I don't see the reason in not signing it. There are some disreputable people/companies out there, but if you hire a person/company who has been in business for a long time you should have some level of trust with them. Even signing it if something went wrong they would be willing to come out and fix something at their expense.

>>1218785
There was a count-off thread a couple of months ago, I'm thinking it got to over 200 fairly regular posters. Now figure we all went twice because lying on the internet is just that cool... Still over 100 of us.

>>1217083
$5 and a "Thanks for your work. I'm sure they don't pay you enough" or some other sort of compliment goes a long way, especially if you will need the service again.

Pretty much every time you have someone come to your house to perform a service, a certain percentage of the population is greatly appreciated. The rest get the regular unenthusiastic work the second time. Small tips make people's lives happier. It's not the money, It's the pride that comes from being acknowleged as being valuable.

If there are multiple workers, DO NOT just throw a 20 at the boss/foreman/supervisor. They probably won't see it.

>>1218872
Actually, you really don't have to tip the foreman.
Buy the crew lunch, offer cold drinks (or hot coffee in the winter) and let the foreman know that he has a good crew and should be proud.

But also stay out of the way. If work stops because of your presence, excuse yourself.

>>1218785
I've felt this for years.

>>1216668
>normally these are for trying to milk a few more years out of nearly dead units.

A family member had a brand new unit installed
"professionally" and it had trouble starting. The guys came back and installed one of those hard start capacitors.

Would that mean they installed a preowned unit or fucked it up?

>>1217451
Eat shit.
I've made thousands in tips and the government didn't get fuckin' any of it.

>>1218593
>If the compressor is drawing high amps during operation then I'd suspect either an airflow restriction or possibly the system is overcharged, or the compressor itself is going out in which case

ok, so lets say we have a 5 ton AC unit, with ducting set up for a 3 or 4 ton. Would that explain the extra amps? I understand you don't do hvac, but throwing that out there for everyone.

>A hard start device has a capacitor in it
But there is already a start capacitor - my questions was, why not just put in a bigger one, or run a second cap in parallel with that one. Not a big deal, just curious.

>>1218855
tipping is sometimes like paying taxes. like you mentally figure out how much something costs, which already seems like a lot, and then someone is like "you need to tip him". The first reaction is, god fucking damnit. The second reaction is, well I guess that makes sense. I think a lot of these conversations people don't get past their first reaction ( or are stubborn) In my case, the only time people I know have tipped appliance people is when they are doing something extra, like.. "tip the cable guy and see if he will hook up some extra stations" or whatever. Or we had one guy who waited around for 20 minutes so we could finish cooking dinner before he turned off the electricity ( we were having a party that evening ). I mean - sure - that makes sense.

I guess my new rule will be if the guy works for a company, I'll tip a few bucks.

>>1219000
Not worth the audit for me. Shit they can come after you for barter if they want.

>>1218855
>As far as signing a paper I can see your point but if everything was done to your satisfaction I don't see the reason in not signing it.

I don't have any way to confirm what he did. He went up a ladder, came down a ladder. told me I need to spend $600. Not trying to be a dick - I'm sure he did his job, but I'm not going to legally commit to it. Frankly, if anything, I should be asking him to sign a document that all work was completed 100% to all applicable laws and regulations. Then pay him.

In the future I'm still not sure how to handle it. I'll probably sign it, but write something like "did not inspect" in the signature area. That way he gets his document signed, and if the company wants to contact me about it, they can.

Or maybe just sign it, and not GAF.

>>1216581
Another example of why tradesmen are scum
>hurr just sign this so when it breaks in a week I won't be liable

>>1218857
98 unique IP's in the QTDDTOT general alone
33 ITT

>>1219047
>But there is already a start capacitor - my questions was, why not just put in a bigger one, or run a second cap in parallel with that one. Not a big deal, just curious.

HVAC compressors (and fans) don't normally have a 'start' capacitor. They have a run capacitor which is in the circuit continuously.
The capacitor does help the motor start but it won't run properly without it even after it starts.
The capacity (in microfarads) is specified for the motor by the manufacturer and if it's not within 10% of the necessary value performance will suffer (reduced power and lower RPM) once it's too low the motor can't start itself but may run poorly if push started. Normal values for these are 25mf to 50mf for the compressor and 3mf to 7.5mf for the fan. It's common for them to be in one can. 35+5/370vac is typical. Some units use two individual capacitors. Replacing the failed or failing capacitor usually solves the problem.

If a compressor is wearing out and/or having trouble starting even with the proper run capacitor, it's sometimes helpful to add a 'hard start kit'. The kit for HVAC compressors contains a large value capacitor (150-200mf) and a device to disconnect the large capacitor from the circuit once the compressor motor starts. Leaving it in the circuit would damage the motor in a very short time if the breaker didn't trip first.

The disconnect device may be a relay or a resistive disk that changes value as current through it causes it to heat up.

Refrigerator compressors always use a start device and most have gone to the resistive disk whereas older ones always used a current sensitive relay.
The 'hard start kit' for refrigerators have the resistive disk, a large capacitor, and a current sensitive self-resetting breaker (for over-current condition protection) to replace all of the parts necessary for the compressors operation. It's called a 3 'n 1 hard start kit.

>>1219160
>most have gone to the resistive disk whereas older ones always used a current sensitive relay.

The resistive disks fail frequently but the old fashioned relays almost never failed.

This the face of improved technology.

>>1219160
ok thanks. I misunderstood how the AC worked. It makes sense to me that a separate capacitor with its own relay needs to be added.

The current cap I have should be at 80, and is currently at 76. So that is borderline for replacement.

The compressor is starting it is just pulling "too many amps". How problematic is that? Is that reason enough to put in a start kit?

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>>1219205
>The current cap I have should be at 80, and is currently at 76. So that is borderline for replacement.

New capacitor is +/- 5%
A new 80MF cap could be 76-84MF and be withing spec.

>>1219205
>The compressor is starting it is just pulling "too many amps". How problematic is that?
If it's taking too long (in milliseconds) to start, the current will climb to abnormal levels.
The start kit will make it start quicker so it doesn't take too many cycles (240v @ 60Hz) to fall back to run condition at a lower current.

Some people put hard start kits on new units just to make life easier for the compressor.
(I've not done this myself)

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>>1219217
>File: 80 MFD.png
wrong pic

try this one

>>1216668
>>1216581
lmao OP literally paid a guy to do literally no work then spat in his face. fuck OP why are you retarded? you dont just get shit inspected for no reason. lmao what did you expect him to inspect?

>yup it turns on, clean out your bulk filter more often you moron.

>>1218565
>>1216668
no, your unit dies because you were a jew and never performed preventative maintenance on it. trouble is that people only call the repairman after it's damaged by not following the service schedule.

>>1219217
oh that's funny. I'll look at the house inspection docs, and see if the AC electrician recorded the caps value. Then I can see if it has dropped at all.

Sounds like a start kit is a good idea then.

>>1219223
Yes, that is a good point - I should follow the service schedule. I didn't realize there was one. But I think I'm on the right track now!

>lmao OP literally paid a guy to do literally no work then spat in his face.

I don't think you read my post, or understand the issue. Or how the word 'literally' works either.

>pays a guy to do no work
>you don't just get shit inspected for no reason
>not following the service schedule

which is it? Am I supposed to follow the maintenance schedule and have someone come by and inspect it every 6 months? Or is that literally paying a guy to do "no work". cmon man, put a little effort into your shitposting.

>>1216581
Good lad. Receipt for cash, that is the only contract we need.

>>1219225
the standard inspection for pretty much all equipment is to just check the filters. there's usually more than one filter. a prefilter which catches all the large lint and sand or whatever gets into the intake and finer filters. depending on the unit you may have washable hepa filters or just replacement cartridges. this applies to everything from lawnmowers to cars to vacuum cleaners to AC units.

typically sacrificial parts need replacing every so often. motor oil for example is generally every 5000-10000km or 6-12 months. on appliances it's generally the warranty period of the unit or about every five years for something like a sacrificial anode in a water heater. the idea is that the unit will work for a long time but some parts are understood to work for a certain period because its far cheaper to use that particular replaceable part and replace it a few times over the life of the unit than it is to deliver it with a failsafe part or auto failover redundant units expected to last for 50 years. although you will find this in medical equipment and high dependency infrastructure.

for machinery, the service schedule will tell you when they expect parts of the unit to fail. so they expect say 10% of starter units to fail after 5 years and 50% after 10 years for example. so they say replace it after five years and in this way the failure rate of the units drops to 0.01% after 9 years.

for regassing, generally its not an issue unless you notice the unit doesnt blow air as cold as before or your power usage goes up when you're using it.

if you take something in for a "service" or get an inspection they'll just check it turns on and replace a filter, maybe lube the hinges on a panel cover. its for the same reason when if you take your car in for a service they dont strip down your motor and transmission to check the tolerances, they just give it a quick look over.