Super spring

>>1204386
You need a compression spring, or a tension spring? Garage door springs are about the right size for tension springs, but multiple tens of tons? Yeah, one spring the size of your arm with 2 meters of travel isn't going to give you that, no matter what kind of spring it is.

>>1204395
I dont need multiple tons, I want multiple tons, really I just want as much as possible and then I can work with that, I need a compression spring, for maximum release of force

>>1204386
What the shit are you trying to do with it?

>>1204398
Long story short, spring cannon

>>1204399
Yeah, good luck finding one of those ready-made. You're gonna probably have to custom order a spring from some sort of metalworking-engineering factory, and it probably won't be cheap.

>>1204400
/wrists/

two meters isnt absolutely nessesary for the record, but the more travel, the more force it's releasing

is there a shitty diy equivalent I could do?

If this sounds retarded, its because it is, but

Could I weld say, car springs together to achieve something similar?

>>1204401
What is this for, a pumpkin chuckin competition?
And the problem with going after the record holder in whatever this field is, is unless you are already involved with a related industry or the industry of the record on an intimate level, they probably have more resources than you. /diy/ing isn't impossible, but I'd be surprised if the record holder didn't have either a shitton of resources and sponsorships or else literally owns a part of the industry that makes these things, for example be the manager of a steel-spring making company.

Does it have to be a spring-powered launcher? Could you do something with pneumatics?

>>1204403
Its basically to circumvent gun laws, if I have a spring like that I can effectively make a weapon as functional as a firearm (I have a way of cocking it easily)

if I use pneumatics it becomes an air gun, which you need a license for here

>>1204404
Look up JoergSprave on Youtube, aka The Slingshot Guy.

>>1204405
yeah thats where I got the idea, its just slingshots arent as practical, and there are more limits on the velocity of shot, with a spring gun I can use say, air pressure to cock the spring

>>1204406
Welp, I still have no idea what the shit you are trying to do, so good luck.

>>1204403
We tried garage door springs for a pumpkin launcher but the energy stored is pretty pathetic compared to everything else.

>>1204407
going to use air pressure or magnets to push the spring back, the spring itself will launch a shot

>>1204408
yeah its starting to look like the springs I would need to do this dont really exist at the moment

>>1204409

I dunno m8, a 2 meter spring that is as strong as you want it sounds terrifying as fuck.

You can with relative ease order a custom made spring and get it hardened as well, but fuck me i wouldn't make a spring canon unless i really knew what the fuck i was doing.

>>1204423
Yeah but im an idiot and I need to remove myself from the gene pool like a proper idiot

Honestly I wouldnt tension if I was within 100 meters of it, gotta make sure it's safe and all that

>>1204399
I like where this is going. Anon, they male spring compressors for cars but

BE WARNED

Dicking with this heavy duty of a setup can kill u.

I know a mechanic with half a face due to a spring compressor breaking or sliping.

Please use air or even explosives over springs.

>>1204549
yeah I know, And I wont be doing any maths for it if I can get the spring, just feel out the mechanism and sit 100 meters away with a string to the trigger, because fuck being close to that timebomb until I can see it's safe

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>>1204386
godspeed you crazy zebedee

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leafspring crossbow op, or in this case leafspring ballista, its the most realistic option.
but it's not like building a siege weapon is going to be any more legal than you owning an airgun without an airgun license in your country

and though it's probably marginally safer than a coil spring, a snapping cable under tension is still not something to fuck with

>>1204402
nope...sping goes flat or loses its temper when heated. Easy, shitty way to lower a car is to heat the springs

>>1204758
This is true but the whole spring wouldn't be heated, just a small portion of it (the HAZ). I don't know enough about springs or metallurgy to be sure, but why wouldn't this work?

>>1204770
by the time you weld all the way around the spring will be screwed. Thats why you never weld or torch or weld on front end parts of a vehicle

>>1204775
Why is that? I understand that torching a whole spring lowers it's tension, like >>1204758 said, it's a shitty way to lower a car, and I know from riding in someones car who did this, it removes all of the stiffness out of the spring. The car rocked like a boat in a hurricane when braking for a stop sign at 25mph.

However, when welding 2 springs together it seems like you would only be affecting about maybe an inch on either side of the weld, leaving the rest of the spring to function as normal. I don't see how this would fuck up the overall spring force more than a little bit. I see how this would lead to early failure in front end auto parts, since any change in metal tension on a particular area of a specific part could lead to failures of other areas of the part.

For this hypothetical spring system, I see welding 2 springs together as lowering their longevity, but not significantly affecting their usefulness. I'd at least give it a shot since getting 4 big ass truck springs welded together is way fucking cheaper than getting a custom spring manufactured.

>>1204748
this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLMd_B5bJU8

>>1204386
Why don't you just use hydraulics instead? Would probably be much easier to make a piston that feeds pressure right then getting such a bigass spring. Take some bigass tank (try water heater? Not sure how much pressure those can withstand but maybe easier to use that and connect it to something. But that also might be more difficult, but better than nothing

OP here, I love you /diy/

>>1204748
I live in Australia, spring systems like this would not fall into any of our overly specific weapons catagories
>>1204748
I thought about this, but crossbows require a license, my backup plan if I cant get some way to generate releasable pressure is to aquire an antique musket and give it an automatic loading system I have worked out in my head

>>1204831
Air as a method of propulsion will categorize it as an air rifle I believe, though its possible use of hydraulics like this will be a legal grey area, I'll need to find out more, originally I was intending to use something like hydraulics to cock the mechanism

>>1204786
if no one has a sound argument to this guys theory, I'll start buying what I need when my pay comes in

OP stop being a raging nygger and fix your magna first

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>>1204844

>>1204786
Welding anneals the metal, which makes it less springy. Something you may not know: the modulus of elasticity of the steel does not change. The spring constant is as it was before. The metal just becomes weaker. Loading the welded assembly to the same load as the hardened spring would put the HAZ into plastic deformation. A few strong loading cycles would snap it.

But to the OP! Get a replacement airgun compression spring. They're sold on their own since they don't last forever, and they're already made for person-portable levels of power and size/weight.

>>1204902
hmmm would that be functional for power in actually launching a projectile from the spring itself?

>>1204904
You mean like putting the spring in a tube, putting a ball bearing down after it, and pushing, then releasing? Sure, but I would propose that a practical implementation would have the spring in an enclosure that controls its compression and release, with a mechanically-connected projectile-holder that itself contacts the projectile as it's pushed down the barrel. Like in the air rifles it's made for, only with a mechanical rather than pneumatic final link.

>>1204831
this, they also won'T explode in your face (usually)

Also for consideration. "Dry" firing a spring-powered gun (without a projectile) carries a large risk of damaging the mechanism, including the possibility of shrapnel-producing explosions. This is because the same energy as a regular shot is still stored and released, only now the energy can't get out of the gun. This energy must dissipate in the gun's mechanisms somehow, which are at that time zooming around much faster than what they were designed for. An airgun spring in a sturdy enclosure isn't likely to kill you in this eventuality unless you're particularly stupid. A car suspension spring easily could. The spring described in OP would go off like a bomb, flinging hundreds of pounds of supersonic shrapnel around.

>>1204911
oh Im not using propellant, the spring is the propellant, that's the point of the setup, that's why I'm shocked a spring like that would generate the force needed to launch such a projectile at high speed

>>1204919
I see, still gonna try and make it work vOv just wont fire it without a projectile loaded

>>1204921
>that's why I'm shocked a spring like that would generate the force needed to launch such a projectile at high speed
You know that what I'm suggesting is the compression spring from an air rifle, right?

>>1204923
An air rifle uses compressed air to fire a projectile doesnt it?

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>>1204924
The air is compressed by a piston powered by a spring. There are different mechanisms, of course, but this is the kind that has springs.

>>1204925
I see, im not sure if it would work, but I guess ill try it, my setup would work the opposite way more or less, air on the spring, ill get a air rifle spring and report back vOv

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just google: "spring calculator", you can play around with different dimensions and see, how those dimensions affect safe travel distance etc. Storing a lot of energy in a spring and directly driving a projectile doesn't equal high speed. Spring can be quite slow (relatively), eseentially you need to convert the raw - super strong and quite slow - to very fast and strong enough. In pneumatic guns, for example, this is achieved by driving a piston, which is much larger diameter than the projectile.
Anyways, without no rough calculations, chances are, you'll produce a dangerous turd of equipment,

>>1204934
I did mention I'm retarded

but thanks, I used a spring calculator, and can safely say I do not need a spring that absolutely fucking retarded, I thought springs were a lot weaker than they are, I just need one with a lot of travel, and thick coils

>>1204399
m8 just buy a bb gun on the internet

also you'll be disappointed to know that spring effectiveness to muzzle velocity drops off rapidly at transsonic speeds. theres a reason most spring piston guns hover around 800-900 fps. at 1000+, not only do the ballistics get fucking stupid at transsonic speeds, but your springs start to lose a lot of efficiency since they have to fight supersonic air (which is harder than non-supersonic air)

inb4
>BBUT GUNS ARE SUPERSONIC
guns expel a mixture of gases that have higher speeds of sound, so by the time the bullet leaves the barrel, it is going so much faster than the speed of sound that the increased power you get is well worth the wonkier ballistics, and those wonkier ballistics are further negated by heavier rounds that are less affected by it. even with a heavy round for you, unless you can really bust through the sound barrier, it wont be worth having that strong a spring since the travel of the round down the barrel will be so much less efficient and the ballistics will suffer so greatly shortly after leaving the barrel

if you want a very powerful non-firearm gun, look into light gas guns. expensive to feed, but hypervelocity research is mostly done with those (they are even better than railguns!)

>>1204404
unless you live in the US, where it is trivially easy to get a gun even in California, most countries (and probably your country) define firearms by muzzle energy and nature, not by "lol ids a aye are fifheen". your ridiculous spring gun will still be classified as a gun. even in the UK, which specifically has laws for airguns, airguns of certain power are still restricted/prohibited.

oh also ps op if you want to fire a gun with that kind of force stored in a spring, you have to first cock it. to fire something significantly powerful, you will need a SHITLOAD of force, in fact the same force it fires with. because it's a spring.

for reference, even hobby shooters dislike 400fps airguns since they need significant force to break and cock; not much, but enough that theyre bad for children and even adults will get tired after a long day of shooting. supersonic spring piston guns are notable for requiring about as much force to cock as it takes to pull back a longbow, which is a lot (between 80 and 160 pounds depending on how early you want arthritis)

even a 400fps gun, the most common kind since it satisfies the most countries as not being a "real" gun, ususally take around 30-40 iirc.

>>1205094
Not OP but airsoft guns are banned in 'straya. Also aerodynamic forces on a spring are negliable. On the projectile however they are not, and the drag coefficient of a sphere in supersonic flow isn't pretty.

>>1205096
>supersonic spring piston guns are notable for requiring about as much force to cock as it takes to pull back a longbow, which is a lot (between 80 and 160 pounds depending on how early you want arthritis)
lol no. The velocity depends highly on the mass of the projectile, power stroke and draw force. For example a 0,2g bb at the sound barrier is like 12j, which is 120N with a power stroke of 10cm. That's like 26 pounds in retarded units.

>>1204386
>>1204399
>spring cannon

Springs are basically in 3 types-
>Compression (car shock absorbers)
>Tension (Garage doors)
>Torsion (Leaf springs)

Save you a lot of trouble that the first 2 are mostly complete shit for what you want to do as a stand alone means of throwing something, torsion springs 'can' throw things but it really comes down to the draw weight, weight of the projectile and the power stroke of the springs movement. A longer power stroke, the better the energy transfer is essentially and that's where the Compression and Tension springs tend to suck arse.

Tension and Compression can work as part of a larger system like a piston, compressed air etc where their smaller power stroke makes them much more compact and they're not having to deliver their energy to the projectile, the air does it by being forced down a smaller diameter bore.

The other mechanical means of getting a longer power stroke is the use of pulley's and a cable- ie: compound bow and theoretically it can be applied to to any type of spring. How well it works is entirely up to how its engineered and it's going to be complex. You can make your own springs out of steel, but it does require some blacksmithing tools, steel (5160) and knowledge of how to temper it (more tools)

>>1205334
A torsion spring can be either compression or tension, and a standard leaf spring is a pretty bad example of one. A linear spring is characterised by having its force linearly proportional to its linear displacement, while for a torsion spring the force is proportional to its angular displacement.

A standard automotive leaf spring is a bit of both, as there is no fixed radius or completely linear motion.

>>1205344
Yeah it can, but fucked if I'm writing an engineering essay here- just pointing people into areas they can research themselves

>>1205350
pussy

>>1204836
headsup, if a cop sees this they will fuck you up, potatoe cannons are illegal in some states.

the antique musket also is illegal, although legal to own since it is old as soon as you try to use it it becomes a firearm and requires a licence (for example display only)

the best way i can think of having this work would be feeding a wire cable thick enough to compress the springs through the middle of the springs to a crank with one of the quick release hooks used with cranes to fire the projectile

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>>1205384
shitty paint for you

also include a stop so the springs dont fly out aswell

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>>1204386
>spring
>2 meters of travel
>about the diameter of my arm
>handle as much weight as possible
Go-go-gadget autism!

I think OP would be better off with a trébuche

So after you compress the spring with a few tons of force, how do you plan to release it safely?

>>1204619
the problem isn't releasing it, it's loading it. and how the fuck are you going to load it? do you have some sort of remotely operated hydraulic press with a big-ass safety cage around it?

Otherwise you are going to die. just a warning.

Why not just use 5+ car springs with metal spacers in between?

>>1204426
Balista

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You could try a series of stacked Belleville washers if you're insistent on using springs. It would give you a high rate in a much smaller package, although you still have the problem of cocking the gun...

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>>1205723

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>ITT op reinvents the european crossbow, because he's european.

>>1204386
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAawhg6JtyY

I found a tension spring that has the right dimensions for what i need but i need a compression spring. If i would stretch it far enough would that turn it into a compression spring or would that fuck everything up.

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>>1205987
yes

>>1205987
could you elaborate on what exactly are you trying to achieve with these springs? What are you trying to use as a projectile?

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>>1206092

>>1206093
airsoft gun. I'm not OP btw

>What are you trying to use as a projectile?
0,2g bb's i guess.

>>1206095
it is far cheaper and lightyears better to buy one

>>1206099
that applies to most of this board. Anyway something like >>1204925 seems fairly simple to build yourself. I already got the springs and pump but i still have to figure out where i can get a 6mm barrel
I was wondering if i could turn a tension spring into a compression spring which would most likely be stiffer than the ones i already have. I'm trying to maximise the power obviously

>>1206110
I agree, the principle looks simple. Anyways, if you want power I doubt you'll be able to achieve tolerances and surface finishes needed. However it is possible to build and airsoft gun that will shoot out a bb.

>>1206121
The only thing that concerns me is getting the barrel right. The piston is just a bicycle pump so that's a guaranteed seal, and the spring i have is 17cm in length with a stiffness of 1kN/m. I've no idea how strong airsoft springs are as i haven't found any specific data on those, but if they are significantly weaker than what i have i might as well end up with something more powerful even if the efficiency is far lower.

>>1206127
From the fact that you could compress it with your hand, I'd guess it's much too weak. It takes quite some effort to compress pneumatic gun springs using a lever.

>>1206159
Depends on what you're shooting. 0,2g is basically nothing, so you don't need a super strong spring to get reasonable velocities
If you want something to kill small game with then 'd agree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4JZmmacJuU
This nigger is getting 200m/s and he isn't exactly struggling to cock the gun

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>>1206174
That's an AIRSOFT gun. Even with overcharging a high-end gun, muzzle energy is much lower than an air rifle, which shoots larger (typically lead) pellets through a rifled barrel. That gun was failing to penetrate safety glasses. Air rifles can penetrate dimensioned lumber and kill small game like coyotes and hogs. A break-action air rifle might have a 30-pound draw over two feet, with a six to one mechanical advantage on the spring (180 pounds over 4 inches). One can DIY both sorts of guns, but they're rather different.

>>1206198
>That's an AIRSOFT gun
Yes. Haven't you read my previous posts?

>>1206213

>>1206095
>0,2g bb's i guess
0.2g airsoft pellets (6mm plastic), or BBs (4.5mm steel, 0.35g)?

>>1206110
>Anyway something like (pellet rifle) seems fairly simple to build yourself
The rifle has a powerful spring, which means that there's still a lot of energy left over after overcoming the internal friction of the various mechanisms. Scaling down the spring and DIYing the rest would probably produce highly inconsistent shots.

>>1206174
>This nigger is getting 200m/s
The chrono says 464 feet per second. With the extra-heavy pellet, that's a little over 3 foot-pounds. A standard pellet from a standard gun might get 1. Bicycle pumps operate at high loads and low speeds, so friction isn't a big concern, but even a little resistance could eat up a lot of the energy budget in an airsoft gun situation. Getting your proposal to work will take a major emphasis on precision rather than power. If you can't get the energy to the pellet effectively, adding a more powerful spring just deposits more energy into the internals, which may damage them. It should be doable, but it will take a different approach from an air rifle that has an order of magnitude or more larger muzzle energy.

>>1205386
>using a spring to drive the projectile instead of using a spring piston or something
nigger if you want to make a spring-based gun you're better off using leaf springs to basically just make a crossbow

>>1205330
>lol no [continues on to be retarded]
fucking cunt muzzle energy is not the same as the force required to cock. an AR15 has a cocking force of like 8 pounds or some shit but it has way more muzzle energy than that

>>1206095
>0,2g
youre talking about airsoft you fucking frenchman

im not even going to watch that video. fuck you. most actual pellets for actual pellet guns are three times that weight and deform going down the barrel. bb guns arent exactly pile drivers in terms of energy but looking at airsoft guns is going to lead you down the wrong path. they typically have fucktiny pistons, operated electronically on a rack and gear setup, and fire ultra light round projectiles, unlike actual bb guns that use skirted projectiles and much larger pistons (and in modern guns, the springs are often air springs) so they can actually be used to kill small game or w/e

>>1206110
>I was wondering if i could turn a tension spring into a compression spring
not really no

literally just use leaf springs off a trucc and make a ballista

you could also use an air spring. get a suspension spring off a bike and overcharge it with air

>>1206264
>fucking cunt muzzle energy is not the same as the force required to cock. an AR15 has a cocking force of like 8 pounds or some shit but it has way more muzzle energy than that
An AR15 is a firearm. Cocking it compresses the spring that drives the hammer that hits the firing pin which ignites the primer which ignites the main propellant which provides the energy of the projectile. In a spring-powered gun, the energy exerted when cocking it is all it has to work with to propel the projectile.

And not to belabor a point that's already been repeated, OP is in Australia, where crossbows and air guns require a license, but the kind of purely-mechanical coil spring guns proposed here apparently do not. Surely this isn't your first encounter with regulations that produce silly results.

But to elaborate on the point about the feebleness of airsoft guns, I have a BB pistol that cost about 1/20 of the airsoft gun in the video. It has equal muzzle energy and much better penetration.

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>>1206248
>0.2g airsoft pellets (6mm plastic), or BBs (4.5mm steel, 0.35g)?
0,2g.

>The rifle has a powerful spring, which means that there's still a lot of energy left over after overcoming the internal friction of the various mechanisms.
I linked to that rifle because it's de facto the same mechanism as an airsoft gun.

>Scaling down the spring and DIYing the rest would probably produce highly inconsistent shots.
such light weight projectiles aren't very accurate either way. I don't expect to hit anything beyond 30m or so

>The chrono says 464 feet per second.
Yeah i thought the speed was that mentioned in the thumbnail, my bad.

>Bicycle pumps operate at high loads and low speeds, so friction isn't a big concern, but even a little resistance could eat up a lot of the energy budget in an airsoft gun situation.
I know, but it's a bit of a trade off isn't it? a good seal and higher friction versus some leaks but smoother travel of the piston. I've noticed that the friction is less when the piston seal is reversed, maybe i can do some experimentation with that later on.

>If you can't get the energy to the pellet effectively, adding a more powerful spring just deposits more energy into the internals
I was autistic enough to simulate it so i'm not building it completely blind. I could even optimise it if i wanted to, but most design parameters are constrained by their availability.
Pic related is the piston speed, though i have to admit i neglected the leakage around the bb and i pulled the friction factor of the piston out of my ass. I'll do some measurements on that in the very near future.

>>1204386

Might try McMaster-Carr, it looks like they have some pretty heavy duty springs.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-springs/=18ewhbx

You might also consider train car springs. A quick google search found me a couple websites.

That said it may be difficult to find a supplier that will sell them to you as they may require a minimum order size.

http://www.alcospring.com/
http://www.sctco.com/barber-spring.htm

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>>1206264
>confusing mechanical weapons with gunpowdered ones
you're an american aren't you?

>>1206290
>>1206275
>Confusing muzzle energy with cocking force
>missing that point this hard
fucking abbos i sware

the point is that the nigga was retarded and missed that I was talking about the force it takes to cock the thing, not the output energy. Obviously, some energy is lost to friction of the parts and deformation of the pellet and shit; the 80lbs of you cranking the barrel down to cock it is not all used effectively when the spring decompresses, and depending on the design of the gun, the piston might not even be done moving by the time the pellet has left the barrel (which is bad design, but better than a squib) equivalent). The spring itself could also just have wonky characteristics that make it take a lot to compress, but decompress slowly or without the same kind of force.

Anyway, the key point for forever ago is that supersonic airguns already have a significant issue of tiring the shooter as they have to cock it and cock it again throughout the day's shooting. Something with a giant 2m long super stiff spring is not even going to be cockable by hand, like those giant crossbows that have to have a windlass on it.

>>1206275
>crossbows and air guns require a license, but the kind of purely-mechanical coil spring guns proposed here apparently do not
I imagine firearms law is similar to Canada's where firearms are defined by muzzle energy rather than being obviously a gun, so OP wants to diy this ridiculous spring cannon because he can't get one in a store, and isn't concerned with the legality of it.

Assuming OP doesn't care about the legality of what they're doing and has chosen this design for simplicity reasons rather than legality reasons, I feel it's better to just say "build a crossbow; they're simpler to source parts for" or "build an airgun; it'll be more effective than a naked spring" is better than discussing such a dumb kind of gun.

Look up viet cong defenses against helicopters, I vaguely remember hearing that they would use truck springs to make an absurdly large crossbow to fire tree trunks at chopper rotors.. maybe not cannon velocity... but with enough mass behind it to ruin someone's day..

>>1206309
nigger a goose that gets nailed by a helicopter blade will severely damage the helicopter. you dont need that great velocity to damage a helicopter, especially if its currently flying

>>1206304
>claims that others are confusing muzzle energy with cocking force
>compared the cocking force of a firearm to a spring rifle to show something about the spring rifle
Why bring firearms into the discussion as if they're relevant? There seems to be a remarkable degree of projection here. Or maybe just really bad reading comprehension.

>Anyway, the key point for forever ago is that supersonic airguns already have a significant issue of tiring the shooter as they have to cock it and cock it again throughout the day's shooting.
If you're a wimp, maybe. A 30-pound draw break-action air rifle can push pellets beyond the speed of sound. A medieval longbow it isn't.

>I imagine
And that's your problem. The relevant laws actually vary around the world. OP's whole point here is that he does care about the local laws. If you'd bothered to check before dismissing what others have said about their local laws (https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/W/WeaponsR16.pdf), you might have a better idea of what people are talking about here.

>>1206316
Are you retarded?

The point is that cocking force and muzzle energy are unrelated. One will scale up with the other, but it's not a direct relationship, and depends on other aspects of the design of the gun and what the spring is made of.

>A 30-pound draw break-action air rifle can push pellets beyond the speed of sound. A medieval longbow it isn't.
First off, no, a break action that only takes 30 pounds to cock isn't doing jack shit unless it's got some really exotic meme tech inside it.

Second, a medieval longbow is firing a much different and much heavier projectile.

Third, because pellets are so light, obviously they're not going to have a ton of energy, and will rapidly get diminishing returns on the energy you put in at transsonic speeds because of the wonky ballistics.

Fourth, a spring as large as OP wants is not going to be cockable by hand, straight up. It's not going to work.


>that link
>a 151 page document
>Definitions the article it points to don't have an entry for "firearm" or "weapon" or anything similar
>not providing where it actually says the thing OP describes would or would not be a gun
>implying the OP even said anything about feeling the need to respect law thus far

>Why bring firearms into the discussion as if they're relevant?
Because most countries define "firearm" as "thing that casts a projectile of somesuch energy (and in somesuch way)" so airguns are commonly also lumped into firearms law, as are things like crossbows (which OP's device is remarkably similar to)

fucking yankees and abbos, you're all illiterate

>>1206322
>The point is that cocking force and muzzle energy are unrelated.
If they're unrelated, one won't scale up with the other. And in a well-designed gun, most of the cocking energy will go into the projectile. This means that rough estimates of cocking force can be derived from a given muzzle energy and cocking mechanism.

>First off, no, a break action that only takes 30 pounds to cock isn't doing jack shit
I guess this doesn't exist then: http://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-model-125-air-rifle-177-cal-scope-hc125177.html Lead pellets are low supersonic, but alloy pellets go much faster. Second and third are irrelevant because the question was about the force required to cock it. Fourth, OP has already acknowledged that the initial request was comically oversized because he did not appreciate the energy storage capabilities of springs, and he is now pursuing an air rifle spring. It usually helps to read the thread.

>not providing where it actually says the thing OP describes would or would not be a gun
That's because they're not mentioned, being unregulated and all. But if you want to check it out for yourself, you might start with the table of contents, perhaps then moving on to such sections as "Weapons for license and what license authorizes".

>implying the OP even said anything about feeling the need to respect law thus far
>>1204404
>Its basically to circumvent gun laws
>if I use pneumatics it becomes an air gun, which you need a license for here
>>1204836
>I live in Australia, spring systems like this would not fall into any of our overly specific weapons catagories
>I thought about this, but crossbows require a license
>Air as a method of propulsion will categorize it as an air rifle I believe, though its possible use of hydraulics like this will be a legal grey area
To reiterate, it usually helps if you read the thread.

>Because most countries define "firearm" as
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/firearm
Australia and English itself don't.

>>1206322
>>1206342
Additionally, the contention about "firearms" in this line of discussion is not about the semantics of the term or the legality of any firearms or non-firearm weapons. It's about whether the cocking effort of a gunpowder-powered gun has a relationship to the muzzle energy that is relevant to considerations of the cocking effort vs muzzle energy of a spring or otherwise mechanically-powered projectile launcher. >>1206264

>>1206342
>Fourth, OP has already acknowledged that the initial request was comically oversized because he did not appreciate the energy storage capabilities of springs, and he is now pursuing an air rifle spring
i'm that airsoft guy but i'm not OP >>1206095

>>1206480
I know. I was referring to >>1204928 and >>1204943.

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>>1206483
oh i see

>>1206486
People can get stressed and snippy, but if you find yourself getting worked up in a discussion about springs on an Inuit scrimshaw imageboard, you might consider going out for a walk or other relaxing activity. And when you get back, read the thread again with a level head.

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>>1206488
I read the thread but i must have read over the part where OP was aiming for an airgun instead. I thought they were sort of banned in 'straya but i might have been mistaken

>>1206493
He's looking for something like an airgun that is mechanically different enough to avoid trouble with the relevant laws. From what he's said, he'll probably want to scale things up a bit from the air gun spring version (he's unlikely to achieve the efficiency of a commercial airgun), but working bugs out with an airgun spring probably won't kill him in the meantime, and it might actually produce something good enough.

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>>1206342
>discussing law
>citing a fucking dictionary
im thankful i skimmed your post and saw that so i didnt have to read the rest of it

>>1206488
I still maintain that a spring that OP wants is not going to be cockable by hand and you're too autistic to even understand that this is my original point

>>1206488
>Inuit scrimshaw imageboard
ehehehe

>>1206110
>I already got the springs and pump but i still have to figure out where i can get a 6mm barrel
turns out finding a 6mm pipe was piss easy, but the inner diameter is slightly too small

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVYKeKDB_kU
I hope this trick works

>>1204399
What if instead of springs you used a gas? Like the nitro springs used on airrifles?

>>1207553
what about a gas powered spring

leespring dot com is the website you might be looking for.

I didn t read the whole thread, dont have tine, dropping this source just in case.

Unless you have a hot and big ass oven to harden your steel, forget about making your own spring (even more if you plan on making a big one, which makes the hardening process even harder to realize.)