Starting with knifemaking...

>>1202261
I'm personally a fan of the electric furnace:
https://youtu.be/Cte_LSYflAE
Which is apparently cheaper to run than a coal furnace, but getting the parts to build it will run up your expenses quite a bit.

Should work for an anvil, at least its not a huge investment if you decide the hobby isn't for you after a couple of goes. You will need to mount it to a big lump of tree though, which shouldn't be too hard or expensive to do.

Propane is much easier to manage temperatures with, (you can see the metal's temperature colours), cleaner and it tends to be a easier to live with. Just fire it up, get to temp, turn it off when you're done... coal, not so much, plus there's ash, smoke and shit everywhere. Which is ok if you're in the country or an industrial area, but not so friendly in a city

You will also need hammers, tongs, files, vise and a shitload of abrasives. An angle grinder, drill press and bench grinder also helps for prep and finish

>>1202273
I see people online using a bench-mounted belt-sander instead of a bench grinder, typically the vertical ones.

>>1202274
Belt sanders are a big investment, even if you DIY your own (which is eminently possible) and starting off, you can live without one.

>>1202273
Mounting the iron plate on a big lump of tree will not be a problem (i have wood, tools and experience)

I understand about temperatures, its easy to "overheat" piece in coal powered type...I don't live in a city (thank god) so the smoke and ash won't be a problem (altho capital is only 20min away so if I ever need anything it's close enough)

Hammers, tongs, flies I plan on borrowing from my mothers cousin, his father used to be blacksmith so he has all the tools i will need, and maby later on I will buy the tools from him.
Vise I already have (small one), I plan to buy bigger one later on.
Angle grinder = check
drill press.....not yet xD
Bench grinder = check, just need to buy some belts of different granulations.

Also I will need to buy few stones for the sharpening.

>>1202274
Well I do have an old bench grinder, but..how to explain it...it has a grinding stone on one side and a belt sander on the other side..

>>1202277
Something to quench in is always good, my favourite is a discarded chrome table leg that I sealed at the bottom, fixed to some planks and cut in half.
Oil- vegetable or mineral oils are good
Drill, you can get away with a hand drill for a while, but I found the press a lot easier to work with and making 90deg holes is good.
Tempering you can do in most home ovens which hold a stable temperature

Dremel's (and associated knock offs) are also fucking great for fiddly shit, I bought a cheap one 10 years ago and it finally shat the bed late last year, so they can take a fair beating before replacing

>>1202281
Okay, thanks for reminding me..
Something to qeuench in ... will make something.

I know about drill...will try to make myself a DIY drill press
Tempering, I will just go and get portable oven, mother or gf would kill me if I did tempering in their oven..

Dremel - check

Oh i just remembered....since im noob in this....
Any tips on what's the best method of Heat Treating (at what temperatures) and Tempering the blades? I have seen many videos and I know the theory behind it (Heat treat to make steel harder so it holds the edge better and then tempering so it wont break like a glass at first strike..) but there are several methods (some incude quenching in water which im not too fond of...)

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>>1202286
Depends on the steel, you buy the stock and generally they have the hardening, tempering and forge working temperatures with it, or look it up

Most high alloy steels tend to harden around 780-800C, low alloy carbon steels around 800-850, most use forge temperatures to work it around the high 900's to 1100C

>>1202272
That can't get hot enough to forge steel.

>>1202277
>Hammers, tongs, flies I plan on borrowing
>Angle grinder = check
>drill press.....not yet xD
>Bench grinder

Facemask. eye protection. hearing protection. I'd reccommend a 3M 6800 mask with dust filters. good IR protection glasses for when looking into the forge unless you find cataracts sexy. Fireproof gloves. ear protection because HAMMERING STEEL IS LOUD.

get yourself safe gear before you get yourself toys.

>Any tips on what's the best method of Heat Treating (at what temperatures) and Tempering the blades? I have seen many videos and I know the theory behind it (Heat treat to make steel harder so it holds the edge better and then tempering so it wont break like a glass at first strike..) but there are several methods (some incude quenching in water which im not too fond of...)

what steel are you using?
Every steel is different. O1 is oil-quenching, W2 is water. EN45 you do one tempering cycle, EN47 you do 2 cycles, and so on.
learn to use proper steel (not scrap), and ensure you have researched your steel choice and know the right processes and temperatures. Also get a k-type or IR thermometer probe to measure accurately in your forge.

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>>1202486
yeah safety first, ear protection especially, i still have slight tinnitus from amateur metalwork years ago.

>>1202467
His latest update can:
https://youtu.be/p7uSGXR8NDs

>>1202486
Hearing Protection = check
"Normal white mask" for starters, better one later on
Protection glasses = check (later on with IR protection)
Gloves = check

Yes well about steel, im not using it yet, so im just informing myself. I see loads of differend kinds of steel used but problem in my country is, i cant just go in shop and buy any-type-of-steel-i-want, companies usually sell those special steels in larger quantities (above 500kg) and only to other companies.
Other problem I have is....all those numbers with steel types xD
I've seen somewhere mentioned that W.Nr. 1.4116 is good for forging, others say its not...im confused xD

I guess the hardest part is with starting...
Is construction steel completely out of the question?

Update:
So i have decided that for starters I will not be dealing and breaking my head with all the kinds of steel types, when I will I will order some from Finland (only place i have found to have smaller quantities and lost of types to choose from), for now, for first few knives I shall just go on the "flea market" and buy few files (i can get used from 2-3€/piece, even big rasps), that should do i guess...

>>1202768
>>1202755
>Is construction steel completely out of the question?

yes. Standard "construction steel" is mild. it may contain between 0.18 and 0.25% carbon. it is a waste of time.

> I shall just go on the "flea market" and buy few files (i can get used from 2-3€/piece, even big rasps), that should do i guess...

So, are those files mild steel with a case-hardened outer? Or maybe they're air-hardening. Perhaps they're 1095 spec steel. Could be water-quenched though.

You are just learning. you do not know the properties of steel, or what methods you can take to work around any uncertainty. You are, in effect, deliberately adding failure points into your creation process where you have absolutely no idea what variables you've added into the equation.

That's like baking a cake, only every powder box has been switched for an unlabelled plastic tub. is that self-raising flour? of plain? Is that baking soda, or salt? is that liquid vanilla extract, or food colouring?

and so on. do you think you'd have a good cake at the end of it?

No.

and the same goes for knifesmithing when you're playing about with Mystery Metal. That's a fool's game, and will lead you to waste time.

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>>1202849
I get it and you are completely right,
I have realised, i have chance of getting "tool steel", not sure what's the proper word for it. The name is different than american names (O1, W2 ....etc...)
1.2080...it contains from 1.9-2.2% carbon.....
wait does AISI stand for "American standards"? Cause i have found a table for this type of steel and it says under AISI D3,O1....
Would this be proper steel to use for knives?

>>1202891
AISI is the american iron steel institute which is their process of making metals, its tied into the SAE standards organisation as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades
But yes, anything AISI is usually followed up by something like D3, D2, O1 etc tool steels, the 10xx high carbon steels, the 3xx, 4xx stainless steels and all that

Then there's all the others for the UK, Europe, Japan etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_grades
Most have some kind of crossover or are 'very close' in their composition.

You will also probably wander across Crucible, an american company that makes various high carbon powder steels- which generally get directed towards the tool industry- as a result get picked up by various knife makers/manufacturers
They're generally quite expensive, high quality but I've run into problems with their heat treatment processes in the past which can be a bit hit-miss and I don't really want to experiment with $200 bars of stock. They also advertise things as 'knife steel', but in reality its just meant for engineering and tooling :)

In terms of supply,
Admiral Steel and the NJ Steel Baron ship everywhere in the world and are well regarded by people looking for hobby amounts of metal, I also get some tool steel from the UK- West Yorkshire Steel, Cromwell Tools etc and found them very good to deal with

>>1202976
Furnival Steel are a better choice for the knifemaker than West Yorks, in the UK. Andy always seems happy to help.

For O1, D2, and an assortment of others, I would not recommend Cromwell unless you're specifically shopping for imperial thicknesses.

for metric dimensions, go to groundflatstock.com - cheaper and better delivery time. they do O1, D2, W1.2210 (Silver Steel - amazing stuff for toolmaking) and a host of stainless types like niolox.

>>1203042
I've used groundflatstock for O1 in the past as its a really premium alloy they sell, Silversteel is pretty uncommon here and never really got my hands on it in any quantities. It was a real trick steel back in the day for making razors, pukos and other small knives with at one point

Hopefully my shipment of 15N20 turns up this week, been waiting for a while to make a few smaller knives with it. Also getting some sheet base metals and nickel silver to make some mokume gane for bolsters and fittings on them... at the moment I'm cautiously optimistic about actually being able to pull it off without it falling to pieces and going to complete shit.
But there is a plan-b
>which is 304stainless again
>because I really feel like beating myself up

Quick question- I've got my hands on a propane furnace and an anvil from my neighbor. What's the /absolute/ most dirt cheap metal a man can get that you can make a decent knife out of?

>>1203755

depends where you are on the planet, and how much you're getting.

buying a 5m long bar will be a lot cheaper than buying 10 50cm long bits, for instance.

however, I'd look for 5160 or 1070 in the US, EN42j in the UK, CS70 in europe.

>>1203766
I'm an American (Georgia to be specific) so I'll look for 5160/1070. What's the best price per unit on them and where can I get it for cheap?

>>1203770
my best advice would be to look at the NJ steel baron: newjerseysteelbaron.com/ - aldo is a good bloke, does a lot for the knifemaking community in the US.

since he has it in stock, go for 1084 - its an incredibly straightforward steel for beginners, very easy to heat-treat.

http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/1084hc/

Thickness 0.125", 1.5" Wide, x 48 inches long, is less than $20. that'll do you for 5 reasonable sized knives with lots of room left over - if you go for thinner stock, even less.

probably your best option in the US for a reliable supplier - you might save $2-3 by a cheaper alloy, but 1084 is a brilliant steel for beginners.

>>1203783
Thanks buddy. I've always found knifemaking fascinating. What are your tips for babby's first knife?

>>1203790
Don't make a prybar fuckhuge thing out of a big lump of 1/4" steel.
Start small- skinners, paring and little utility knives will probably be both a lot easier to work on, don't cost very much, actually leave you with something you can use, test the pants off and if you fuck it up. It's not a huge loss.
Bevels, dead equal bevels before you heat treat will knock out a lot of the chances that it warps in the hardening process.

1075, 1080 and some of the spring steels are ideal as they're tough, don't need anything special to heat treat and quite cheap

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>>1203790
expect it to look shit? trust me, my first was crap too.

watch vids of professionals for how they move tools around etc.
my personal advice would be stock removal for as much as you can for the first few, use heat only for quench/temper. that way you're not worrying about warping and burning the steel in shaping, and ensure your steel is unchanged, while you learn heat-treat. one less uncertainty, eliminating variables.

once you're there, start using cheap mild steel from any hardware store, and practice a few shaping jobs, learn how the steel will curl as you bevel one edge, practice straightening it. also practice hammering flat. hammer out a strip of mild, then use an angle-grinder or belt sander to take off the scale. if you're getting ) ) ) ) ) shapes, you're not hitting square-on. you need to learn to control the hammer. Use scrap and the likes for your practice work, and don't be afraid to spend a day literally just practising how to draw out or swage down etc - I'm mostly a historical maker, and really, I probably spend 1/2 my time just looking at work, studying the details of how I made something, how the originals were done, or practising methods on an offcut or a spare bit.

aim for clean surfaces, use files to get everything flat and even after forge work, then sand. invest in loads of paper, using one worn-out scrap of paper is a waste of your time, for saving a few pennies.

oh, personal advice, your mileage may vary - draw out your designs 1:1 on stiff card, cut it out as a template to aim for. invest in a set of French Curves and a ruler, for making blades. french curves will let you do really nice, clean lines that curl and arc in very good looking ways.

anyhow, have a tiny little whittling/pen-knife in O1, sterling silver and bog oak.

>>1202261
If you've got the time why not find a few more plates like that and lap them together.

Or are flat surfaces too good for your knives?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmsQEAx16o

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Anyway knife noobs, here's your first project before you go leaping into the grinder

A bevel scribe

Took me about 45min to make it in a cave full of scraps
>Sheet of metal, long as its dead flat
>Fix it onto the side of some nice straight timber
>Drill a hole through the side
>Drill a hole through the top to line up with the side hole the dowel/pin sit in
>Mount a bolt to act as the lock
>Dowel or rod to mount the scribe on, flatten the top so that the locking bolt clamps down 90degrees to it

Scribe is just a piece of scrap O1, hardened and then silver-soldered into the end. But the other easy solution for a scribe is just a sharpened drill bit rammed in there. Long as its 90degrees to the pin/dowel you're all good
To use, set the depth, lock the pin with the bolt, run down the side of the blade so there's a couple of nice lines to act as your grinding guide. Generally I leave about 0.25-0.5mm as the edge before heat treating, but it depends on the steel.

>>1203810
>anyhow, have a tiny little whittling/pen-knife in O1, sterling silver and bog oak.
I really like your bolsters, a lot actually!

>>1203858
Oh a cheat mode for setting the depth is spark plug spacers if you've got them handy
Slip the spacer in between the scribe and the metal backing to set the depth and lock it in.

>ie- you have a 3mm thick piece of steel
>get a 0.75mm spacer, lock that in as the distance
>Run the scribe down both sides and now you've got a 0.5mm edge to grind towards

>>1202261
1. Get the plate, and see if you can get a welder friend to weld a hardened steel plate to the top. More mass in the anvil makes for less pain in the ass.
2. Propane is a much cleaner and more viable solution depending on where you are. personally I use coal because I have a very cheap supplier only 1 mile away from my house. Propane lets you control the heat much better than coal depending on the burner setup.

Pros of a coal forge, they are generally quieter, and are almost always hot enough to fireweld
Cons of a coal forge, they are messy (though bladesmithing is messy all around) you need more space to store coal, and the neighbors might not enjoy the smell of burning coal

Pros of a gas forge- can be as big or as small as you want to build it. possible to find fuel for it virtually anywhere with gas stations or superstores. easier to move (Depends on the size) and easier to store
Cons of a gas forge- Loud, really loud. Gas might be more expensive to buy if you have an oversized burner or burning chamber