Solar Power

I have it on the roof of my shed so my freezer full of hard earned venison and trout doesn't go to shit if there's a powercut. It's also out of sight and makes me $50 a month.

>>1200169
Every time I think about getting some panels, I have to sit and think about what I'd actually use it for. My electric bills are never over $40/month. Last month was $29. There's also no net metering in this area due to coal lobbyists. There used to be net metering, but it was only money taken off your bill. You didn't make money. Now that is gone too.

When I do need power, I need a lot of it for a short time. The battery array needed for that wouldn't ever pay for itself.

>>1200169
I wouldn't want to be near those with a lawn mower and then there is theft to consider.

>>1200170
Sweet.
Our power company doesn't actually buy power sadly. (Fuck you TVA... -_-)

My system is currently just used for all my outdoor power needs like lighting and such. The system is also really nice for power outages too of course. (Which we have too many of because Alabama a shit.)

>>1200183
Eh, white people neighborhood.
We ARE the criminals here. (Not really, we're just the ones everyone hates because we do things like cover half our front lawn with solar panels and other junk.)

Also, I have very nice cameras watching them. If someone fucks with my panels, they better hope they go off grid in the woods, somewhere far away, forever.
Or I'd find them. >.>

Lawn mower thing is an issue. We move them to mow the lawn. Going to be building a mount for them that'll sit on a pole so I can actually just mow under them.


>>1200181
I don't ever think my solar stuff will pay for itself just purely as far as the power generated.
It's the fact that it'll be there when the grid (very often) isn't.

Also, it's a nice time-consuming hobby.

>>1200181
T_T The bill here is ~$500 to $700.

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Muh batteries

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>>1200195
>Dem rails
>Shit literally sitting on top of them.

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>>1200195
>CARDBOARD AND PAPER TOWELS ON A RAIL OF BATTERIES MOUNTED ON WOOD.

>>1200191
It was $200 more when I had a live-in gf.

>>1200190
The power is off here a lot too. I got a UPS for my PC because of so many HDD failures from it. Best money I ever spent. The longest it is off is about 2 weeks at a time. But, I have tons of outdoor work I can do, plus, a personal library, and a 36watt netbook with a download of wikipedia, most everything I would ever want, and 1tb of porn. Charging that with solar would be a breeze.

>>1200195
you gonna burn your fucking house down you retard. I am not even exaggerating, this is a fallen screwdriver or some shit away from toasty nuts.time.

>>1200204
It is more about never getting into the habit of placing things on top of stuff like that. The 1st reason is that it sets a really bad example for your friends and family. They may not even think twice about setting something conductive on top because they are completely ignorant of it. The 2nd reason is carelessness from being tired or distracted and setting something conductive on top.

>>1200181
I've never understood the "pay for itself" idea. What's the payback time of your couch or computer or car? Apple & oranges, man. I like the independance PV's provide, for me that's payback enough... plus when I croak, my kid will get them and his cost will be nothing. Say nothing about the environmental aspect of it.

I'm in a cheap (but annually increasing) hydro-electric region. I have four monocrystalline 40 watt panels made in the late 1980's being used to power a friends RV. Originally they were used in a guerrilla solar set up with a puny Trace MicroSine 100 watt synchronous inverter inspired by Homepower magazine. Later I used them to charge some deep cycle batterie as we had frequent power interruptions. I've loaned them out for now.

We have net-metering so any surplus gives you a credit on your bill, i'm not sure if they start issuing a cheque if your credit keeps climbing. My power bill is only around $8-$10 CAD/month.. around 9 cents KWh.. 65% of my bill is monthly fees (grid distribution and monthly subscription) & taxes. Have a friend going grid-tie w/ batt backup on select circuits this summer. I'm hoping to snag some leftover PV's on the cheap to throw on my balcony & grid-tie them.

PV's are getting cheaper by the day. I remember not so long when pv's retailed at $10/watt (in 2000)... now they can be had for around $1.55/watt, or as cheap as 85 cents/watt if bought in bulk (a crate of 26). Love it!

>>1200190
>it's a nice time-consuming hobby.

Agreed! I remember buying ziploc baggies filled with pieces of solar cells from a local planetarium in the mid-80's (ya, i'm an old fart) and spending hours soldering them together to build a small and ugly panel of about 20 watts. Used it to recharge all of my NiCad AA's I used in my discman, camera, and radio scanners. hehe!

>>1200209
>What's the payback time of your couch or computer or car?

Your logic is faulty.

If they had net metering here, I'd go full solar without a battery array, in a heart beat. It'd pay for itself pretty quickly then make me money.

>>1200207
Not to mention any acid leakage will decompose cardboard.

>t. the man who has done this

>>1200169
you live in a gated community or what

>>1200207
>>1200206
>>1200204
>>1200197
I know... I know... It's bad. I'm going to be building a shelf there and also enclosing (with vents) the battery area.

I don't have to worry about others touching it so much cause they're terrified and think that the 12 volts will jump out and electrocute them or some shit.
It's also in a not-rave corner so... I'd give it a 5% chance of burning the house down.
That's lower than my sister trying to make coffee in the morning.
But yea it's still bad.

>>1200220
Sealed AGM batteries, but oh yeah battery acid will eat that cardboard right through.
I was using some flooded batteries and man, I made a mess and bleached my concrete a bit.
I've since been more careful since the acid ate some of my good pants.

>>1200237
not well traveled corner somehow became "non-rave"... I'm confused auto correct.

>>1200231
No, just white-people-land.
I'll feel much better when they're on a pole though, high up. Less risk of people thinking they'll get away with something.

Also, ever since I put up the cameras, literally all the kids that used to spray paint / vandalize stuff quit coming around, so it's not been bad for years now.

Have: 1x 20w panel drilled into the wall outside of window. Feeds into a 10amp pwm regulator which is then split to 1x 12v 7.2ah and 1x 6v battery with cheap buck converter.

The ebay buck converters then charge lipo battery's via the batterys , I run a radio / small stereo and various other 5v devices. Incredibly inefficient but makes my dick hard knowing my toys are powered from the sun.

Probably break even in about 50 years. Good fun.

Thats a cool looking bomb. Surely you jest , thanks for the laughts>>1200195

>>1200243
I'll move the stuff off of the top of the batteries in the morning if the house hasn't burned down by then...

Will that make everyone here happy?

In all seriousness though, anyone have any input on using battery interconnect cables vs "rails" or "bus bars"?

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My 25 watt panel that is powering another one of my "anti-hoodrat" cameras.

>>1200214
>your logic is faulty
I respectfully disagree.

Batteries (decent ones) are still expensive.. I wish there was a price break through on those. I know a guy with LiFePo4 batteries, expensive but a real game changer if one has to rely on storing your own home harvested energy.

>>1200244

its all good mang . sorry i posted after seeing your cabinet plans. need to idiot proof your nice stuff.

I have 1/100s what you got and i managed to start a small electrical fire when accidentally clipped the rails with cheap wires cause im a stupid fuck. Its scary coming backing after a few minutes with smoke in the room. That bus is good imo just cover it up.

>>1200244
Ideally for safety reasons it's good practice to fuse each battery in a bank.. Read about thermal runaways where one battery (or cell) starts pulling current off it's neighbors making things get a bit scary.

Bus bars are exposed. But then my local telco has a humongous battery bank (takes up the whole floor of a highrise building) that uses copper bus bars, and each parallel bank is fused from the rest with fuses as thick as your wrist. i wish I had pics.

>>1200245
Why would you place the power source to your anti-hoodrat camera somewhere for all to see, and why wouldn't you attach the panel to the house?

>>1200181
Tfw my 2 person household in Florida has an electric bill of $180 because of the pool and ac. Still wondering if a neighbor is stealing it or something.

>>1200258
Eh... it was an easy spot that got good sun.
I do see your point though.

>>1200248
Look up Lithium Glass.

New stuff that might hit the market soon. Supposed to be cheaper than current lithium and longer lasting. (more cycles)

Haven't stopped wanking to it since I heard about the possibility of it coming to market.

>>1200254
Good point about fusing though. I wasn't thinking about that at all when I went with my home-made bus bars.
If I make the whole bank a lot larger, I'll probably fuse in between the sets of batteries for safety.

>>1200250
Oh man, shorts are terrifying like that. Did the batteries survive?

>>1200248
>I respectfully disagree.

You can't make parallels with analogies like that. One thing is not remotely like the other. Thus, the logic is completely faulty. Even more so when >>1200181 is very obviously talking about making money and negating paying for money and the comparison to PV costs and utility costs. Yet, you go on about that doesn't matter, though it is the very crux of the conversation.

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Considering one of these FlexMax 80's as my next purchase.

Anyone have any experience with them? I've heard nothing but good things about them.

>>1200369
>New stuff
>2007
its dead jim

>>1200468
There was more stuff about it lately... hopefully it'll actually exist soon.

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>>1200377
i'm sorry dude

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My current charge controller.
Been okay, but the lack of network connectivity built in, annoying to work with MODbus data interface, and a bit slower tracking than I'd like have me considering other options.

>>1200169
I want to install 100W solar cell, to try it.

What should I buy?
Controller, battery, Panel, Inverter?

And where can I calculate optimal mounting angle and approximate watt-hours?

>>1200169
Have some through solar city, they cost slightly less than the utility.

>>1200935
>What should I buy?
>Controller, battery, Panel, Inverter?
yeah that sounds like what you need.

>And where can I calculate optimal mounting angle and approximate watt-hours?
point it towards the sun.

>>1200957
Confused... is this one of those things that you 'lease' solar equipment?

>>1200935
>Controller
I'd recommend you go with an MPPT controller, not that PWM garbage they push over at Renogy and other companies with their 'entry-level' systems.
Take a look at the EPever Tracer A-series (I'd recommend just getting the 40 amp version. You can get them on Amazon for under $200.00. If you are sure you won't want to go much bigger than 200ish watts of solar, then you can get the 20 amp one which is occasionally ~$100.00)
Careful, these DO NOT work on Lithium batteries (not really anyways) without an additional protection circuit of sorts.
They do sell a Lithium model, but it's harder to find of course.


>Batteries
Are you a beginner with batteries? If so I'd recommend some Sealed AGM Lead Acid Batteries.

Now, with only 100 watts of solar, you don't need a huge battery bank odds are, because it'd never get charged back up if you used it much at all. Maybe even just a few standard UPS batteries.
(12v 9ah batteries for UPS batter replacement on Amazon: https:// amazon com/ExpertPower-EXP1290-2-Replacement-BX1300LCD-Batteries/dp/B001NJ3H0C/ - 2 for $40)
These have served me well in a LOT of cases. Any small system that I have put together that needs backup power for any reason I've used these batteries, and they've been great, and amazing price considered.


>Panel
Do you want it 2 weeks from now?
Ebay's got some great 100 watt solar panel deals.
Do you want it in 2 days?
Pay a bit more, and Amazon has some decent 100 Watt panels from HQST and such. I've tried a lot of brands. They all seem to be the same.

>Inverter
Grab a $20.00 one from Walmart or something I guess. I mean, you're not going to run your house on this 100 watt panel.
Inverters are only worth spending money on (imho) when you start actually scaling up your system.

>>1201267
One thing about panels:
Read reviews.
Quality control is an issue with some of them.
Others won't have much of a problem there.

That is really the only difference I've noticed with reviews between brands.
(Except for the idiots that complain that their panels don't always produce 100 watts. Of course it doesn't. It's 100 watts peak output!)

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what could a 120w solar panel power do you think? and what kind of battery would I need? want to set up something cool.

>>1201359
You need to look at a few things:

Sun Exposure
How many hours a day can your panel have full sun? (No shade, no clouds, etc.)
You can look up how many 'peak sun hours' any given location gets. I've found that if you take 'peak sun hours' and multiply it by your panel's max rated power (120 watts in this case), you can get a good idea of what you can count on in an 'average' day.

Total Load over 24 Hours:
How much power (in watt-hours) will your load draw over 24 hours? If you want to run a 25 watt device 24 hours a day, you'll need 480 watt-hours of power.
Your 120 watt panel would need to receive 4 hours of peak exposure. (Now, since it will rarely actually hit the full 120 watts, but will still generate something even off-peak, it'll average out pretty okay.)

Do you want power on cloudy days?
If you want power on cloudy days, you'll need to make sure your panel generates MORE than you need per day, and you'll want a bigger battery bank.


So, what can a 120 watt panel power?
Well, if you were in say, Arizona, with basically year-round sun, and you had a 100 amp-hour 12-volt battery, you could run a 25 watt load all day long and all night long!

>>1201359
>>1201403
My recommended things that I would run off a 120 watt panel:

1) Security Cameras - Nothing like being able to spy on your neighbors (or not neighbors) while you're away, and knowing that the system will stay up no matter if the power is out or not is pretty cool. You can run a whole 4 camera system off the 120 watt panel.

2) Internet repeater station - Who doesn't like internets? Without the need for having a power cord, you can provide a remote area of your property with connectivity!

3) Outdoor lighting - You could run some SERIOUS outdoor LED lighting off 120 watts of solar.

4) A pointless thing that collects energy during the day and then emits heat and light at night. Make it look mysterious and put it in some field somewhere. Watch people get worried. (Just don't make it look like a bomb.)

That last one should clearly look the the marker from Dead Space just to mess with people.

>>1200976
Thanks.
>>1201267
>I'd recommend you go with an MPPT controller, not that PWM garbage
What is the difference between MPPT and PWM?
MPPT draws as much as possible electricity, and than converts it to suitable voltage for charging a battery?
And PWM is simply limiting max voltage and current?

>Careful, these DO NOT work on Lithium batteries
Lithium batteries are expensive, so I will not use them.
Why to use them in off-grid solar system? There is no weight-size limit for battery (as in cars or kick-scooters)/

>Maybe even just a few standard UPS batteries.
So, UPS batteries will work just fine for that wattage, right?
I wanted to buy 12V 50Ah lead-acid car battery... But I guess it will not last long. (after 2-3 cycles it will die)

>Grab a $20.00 one from Walmart or something I guess.
Can I use old UPS? Or it is not that efficient, as switch-mode inverters?
I was planning to use it in a garage/workshop for light and some tools.


>>1201269
>their panels don't always produce 100 watts
They are really retarded.

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>>1201359

It is annoying me so bad that one of the cabinets has a missing handle.

>>1201462
>Power tools
Wait wait wait. For this you WILL potentially need a larger battery, even though you'll never drain the thing much at all. (Which lead acid's are fine with, so you'll be okay. Floating charge good. Full drain bad.)

>MPPT vs PWM
Essentially, the MPPT controller can convert a high voltage low current DC input, to a low voltage high current DC output to charge the batteries.
PWM controllers JUST limit the voltage essentially. They 'pulse' the connection to ensure the correct battery voltage is maintained. The panel array voltage is 'pulled down' to match that of the battery bank. This results in loss of efficiency, as the panel is no longer able to be operated at the Maximum Power Voltage (Vmp as it's often stated on the panel), thus the total energy transfered to the batteries for any given solar exposure is potentially up to around 30 - 40% less than with an MPPT controller.
You can use PWM controllers if you need to power very small things, because often then up-sizing the panel 30% is cheaper than buying a more pricey controller.

>Lithium batteries
Well, the thing is, Lithium is tolerant of a lot of things that Lead Acid isn't, and has a great depth of discharge compared to lead acid.
There are reasons one might go with Lithium in an off-grid setting, but most of the time, right now, Lead Acid is way cheaper and thus preferred.

>UPS Batteries for 100W Panel
Depends on what you want to run.
Lights? You'll be fine.
Laptop? You'll be fine.
Phones? Of course.
Security Cameras? Yep.
Power tools? You'll need a bigger battery. (Consider ~100 amp-hour batteries now.)

>Old UPS, or Cheap Inverter?
Either would have worked for not-power-tools.
Just disable the buzzer in the UPS. Or you'll go mad.
But for power tools, you need an inverter that can handle the 'startup current' surge. Depending on the tools you wanna run, you may be talking a high end inverter even though the sustained draw isn't much.

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I have a 95Ah 12v agm battery here, can I charge it with a 120W 12v solar panel?

>>1201705
You can!
And assuming favorable conditions, you should be able to get it to a full float charge in about 12 hours of sun exposure.
(I assumed 80% output average, or 96 Watts).
Obviously, to charge it from 20% ('empty') to 100% ('full'), it would take at least two days odds are.

If the battery has been sitting a while, make sure to let it get a good charge before actually using it for any loads. If you have a battery charger, you might consider just giving it a good charge and then floating it there for about 24 hours before putting it back into service in a solar system.

Also, I obviously don't recommend connecting the panel directly to the battery (for many reasons), make sure to at least use some sort of charge controller. (PWM if you must, as that'll protect the battery and be just as efficient as a direct panel - battery connection.)

If you MUST charge a battery directly from a panel:
1) Always positive to positive; negative to negative.
2) Always disconnect the panel at dusk. Otherwise, your panel will 'leech' power from the battery overnight.
3) Monitor your charge level with a volt meter or something. The panel (being actually around 18v nominal) will overcharge the battery if left connected for too long after the battery has fully charged.

Other note: You're looking to float your AGM battery around 13.6 to 13.8 volts most likely. Most AGM batteries aren't too fond of the 14.2 volt float voltage used for flooded batteries.

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>>1201467
Calm your OCD anon, the cupboards open in the same direction, it's there.

>>1201518
Thank you very much.

>Wait wait wait. For this you WILL potentially need a larger battery, even though you'll never drain the thing much at all. (Which lead acid's are fine with, so you'll be okay. Floating charge good. Full drain bad.)

My shitty 500W UPS works fine with power-tools. I guess, that they are not that power at all :)
By the way, I have grid-socket in case.

I just want to test solar power. And if I will like it - I will make more powerful system.

>>1202023
No problem.

If you're able to run them on a 500 watt UPS (so, essentially their 'surge' is 500 watts or less most likely) you should be fine with a few UPS batteries obviously, as that's what's inside the UPS. So just to test stuff out, not much point in spending the big $$$ on batteries yet.


Might I ask what sort of power tools you'll be using? I might know (approximately) what kind of load we're talking about here.

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>>1200169
This is me

>>1202031
Hehe.
Running those grow-lights off solar so the DEA doesn't notice the power bill increase? XD

14kw setup on my office. Use what we use and sell the rest back to the grid.

It's now three years old and just about paid itself off. Lifespan of 20-30 years so the rest is pure profit.

>>1200209
>85 cents/watt if bought in bulk

Try 61 cents

>>1202470
Still really mad that my area doesn't buy power. We basically can't even get out of the meter read fee as I understand it, even if we don't use anything. I think there's a rule in this area about not having electric service. Like, you have to have it.

Fuck the TVA.

>>1202548
dont pay it?
soon see exactly how long you 'have to have it' then.

>>1202561
wizard detected

>>1202561
They'll nick your credit and keep adding late fees.

>>1200169

Really debating on getting some for my /out/ cabin. Place has no power, water, etc. So this would be nice addition.

>>1202575
Highly recommend it as long as you have some decent sun exposure. What's the sun exposure like?

Even in partially shaded areas, a solar system can function, but the panels will have to be a much higher capacity compared to the loads, and will need to be carefully positioned and wired correctly to compensate for partial array shading.

>>1202561
>>1202548
The city will condem/repossess your property for not having utilities. It's not 'livable conditions and it doesn't even matter that you are the owner


Murrica.

>>1202678
This.

It's fairly common anywhere that is a 'city' and is 'incorporated'. (IE, has an actual 'town hall' and all.)
Some rural areas you can get away with not having any utility service.

>>1202681
>Some rural areas you can get away with not having any utility service.

*Most.

I want to cut down on my shop costs. I have a 3hp lathe, a 2hp milling machine, a grinder, plasma cutter, and a mig & tig welder. So about 10-15kw draw if I have several things running and I spend about 15 hours in my shop per month. So about 300kwh per month

My question is Would the cnc mill and lathe be able to draw power from the batteries like normal to function?

For additional information, Everything runs on single phase 230vac except for the lathe which has a vfd.

>>1202892
That's like 40 bucks, not a terrible amount.

>>1202892
First off, I don't know what your lathe takes as input power. If the VFD power supply draws from a standard 230vac outlet (I'm assuming it's 3-phrase though), this advice below will still hold true. If it's 3-phase or something input, you're gonna be talking seriously fancy inverters which I have no experience in.


You're talking about a serious system if you want to go 'off-grid' with any of this.


Based on 300 Kwh of power draw per month (actually not bad, would probably cost me like $50 a month), you don't need 50 KW of panels to do this, but you DO need some really incredible batteries, and some fuck-huge fancy inverter.

The CNC mill and Lathe would be able to run off the inverter just fine if it was a 'pure sine wave inverter' of appropriate watt rating and good quality.
Keep in mind you have to handle the startup loads / surges from the motors and such in these devices!
DO NOT SKIMP ON THE INVERTER! You could damage your existing equipment!


I'll assume you want to spend 2 hours a day in the shop, max.
I assume max draw at any given time (startup surge included) is 30,000 watts.

You'll need:
12,000 Watts (12 kilowatts) of panels (with good sun exposure).
A Pure Sine inverter that can handle around 40,000 watts or more. (Can't forget about misc. draw on the system, and room for error and such).
80 Kilowatt hours of batteries. (Assuming 50% acceptable discharge).

You can omit the batteries if this will be a 'grid-tied' system that won't function 'off-grid' at all. (At least half your cost.)


This is... a bit beyond what I've done to be honest. So all these numbers are ballpark and might be a lot more than what you actually need, but without knowing specifics of max continuous draws and startup draws of the various loads on the system, I can't give 'bare bones' advice at all, and to be fair this advice may not be applicable.

A 6KW panel, grid-tied system was the biggest I've ever dealt with, and they were running 'regular house stuff' off it.

>>1202892
Not worth it unless it's grid tied and net meter.

>>1202949
This, essentially. For your purposes, you couldn't go off-grid economically.

If it isn't net-metered, you won't get the full benefit of the panel output anyways, as when you aren't using it, the power generated goes 'to waste' to the rest of the grid, and you get nothing for it.

>>1202906
I was looking at an offgrid system and wanted to include my shop, just needed to know if my draw would be more than what the batteries could provide.

also, 200$ house
15$ well water pump
30$ greenhouse heater and lights
55$ shop
it adds up after a while

>>1202973
>>1202949
>>1202907
damn, I'm sure you guys know what you're talking about, but that's kinda disappointing to hear. I'm talking to a company in a few weeks and I'm going to see what they say too before I count it out.

>>1203025
If you just want to reduce your power bill, then a grid-tied system is a fine option (or a hybrid [Grid-tied with battery backup] system, but those get complicated; however a solar installation company can certainly provide you with one, for a price. :P) for you.

If you want to completely go 'off-grid' and eliminate your electric company all together, you'd be talking a lot of money in batteries and such to be able to run your shop.
You CAN do it, don't get me wrong, it may just never really pay for itself at $40.00 a month average power usage.

The size of your system would need to be drastically increased given the very heavy-duty equipment that you use there. Most of the time, people don't have a 15 or 20 kilowatt draw for a home.
Most of the time, you wouldn't either in your case. But when the shop equipment was in use you would, thus drastically increasing the cost of 'going off-grid', and because it's such a small portion of your total electric use (but a lot at once), it would be hard to justify it economically.


Bottom line:

Could panels that would reasonably fit on your property supply you with enough power averaged out over a month?
Probably. Got a big roof or roof(s)?

How much would those panels cost?
As low as $18,000 if you get a great deal! (30,000 watts of panels!)
You use a total each month looks like of somewhere around 3000 kilowatt hours.
If you get 4 hours of sun a day (good sun), and you have 30 days in a month, you need to generate around 25,000 watts/hour.
So, you'd need maybe 30,000 watts of panel capacity just to be safe?

Could batteries supply you with 20 or even 40 Kilowatts at a time?
Absolutely, just need a lot of big ones!

How much would that cost in batteries?
$10,000 - $20,000 ballpark.

How much would the inverter cost?
Potentially upwards of $25,000.

$18,000 (panels) + $15,000 (batteries) + $25,000 (inverter) = $58,000.

Realistically not bad for a monster system. Buying it all at once, maybe cheaper!

>>1203213
Note, these costs don't include installation; however that is likely to be a small number compared to $58,000.

>>1200169
Currently upgrading to 2200 watts. I bought it at I think 56 cents a watt plus 240 bucks freight to ship it. So 67 cents a watt after shipping which is pretty dang fine. Monocrystaline 275 watt panels.Cheaper deals exist but the ones i found had a real dodgy feel to it and the customer support was ass, couldn't get quotes or help. it was like they didn't want my money. Lots of cubans and mexicans working as well, couldn't understand them. Was off grid for 5 years with a 700 watt. I got electric for a family member because he was a heavy user. Going back because fuck electric bills. Even if i never break even I still want it. The independence and the security is worth it. My money is likely to be worthless in 10 years. Might as well invest it in something that will save me money and hold value (value in utility) for years. If you want to go off grid, save yourself some money. Buy 24 volt panels and go with a 24 volt system. 12 volt panels are expensive (small market) and the size of them is pretty limited. I have a large 12 volt system and I regret it.

>>1200195
Aluminum bus bar....thin as fuck. Holy shit don't make me puke.
Get some battery cables. Short and thick. Like 1/0.

>>1200385
Pretty good. I have a midnite classic. The flexmax does have a sealed version that makes me a bit jelly. I like passively cooled units since they can last longer but the turbo fan in the classic is cheap and it will self protect itself when it gets hot. Really wish they would build a nice sealed unit with a fuck huge heat sink for maximum cold temps.

>>1200930
Tracers are pretty solid for the price. The chinese market pukes out controllers all the time but the market is trickling in with vetted and tested units like that and the price keeps dropping.

>>1202031
How efficient can you get grow lights these days?
I mostly use them now for seedlings ( I don't grow pot, I grow food!) but i want to step it up for 365 days of tomatoes and other stuff i crave. Whats the lowest i can go per tomato plant etc?

>>1202548
Move. Seriously move. If they have this much control you are renting the land and don't own it. Seriously move, you live in fucking commie land of no freedoms.

>>1203225
Definitely going to thicken those up and go with copper or such, or maybe go with cables like you suggested.
Not really working as well as I wanted when I finally tested the whole system output.

>>1203227
I was also considering the Midnite Classic. I like the network connection option and the Whiz Bang Jr. that I've seen people have.

>>1203228
Had some issues with mine, but they're pretty solid for the most part.
Most of the issues I've had with it are generally known.
Slow to track for one, but it's a cheap controller.

The one thing I do hate is that it seems to occasionally decide (due to battery voltage / charge state, or just because?) that the most efficient thing to do is 'drop the voltage of my array down to battery voltage cause fuck you'.
Usually stops a few minutes after it starts though. Just kinda bothers me and I've contacted support but they really haven't been very helpful so far, just telling me it's normal or something.
Got them to admit it is weird looking finally, but they haven't offered to RMA it or propose a solution.

I've found that if I keep my inverter running (usually do anyways cause that's what it's for) or keep a small draw on it (some LED light even), the problem with the voltage drop doesn't happen as much, or for as long.

>>1203229
Not sure, don't know anything about grow lights, but man that sounds awesome. Hate gardening because you gotta be outside to do it. :P

>>1203230
Oh, I know. I'll be getting the fuck out of this area soon hopefully. Our potential property is out in BFE and that'll be no utilities or anything, just what I put there.

>>1203215
>>1203213
58k isn't bad for just the system. With tax credits that would be closer to mid 40's without install.

Might pay for itself in 20ish years

>>1200169
I'd set one up when I own my own house. Apartment dwelling is just not worth it. Too much hassle.

>>1200211
This is awesome!

>>1203213
>$25,000 (inverter)

Explain, the grid tie inverters I saw are pretty cheap. Eg: https://www.wholesalesolar.com/grid-tie-solar-inverters

>>1203374
Thats commercial level stuff, like a 50 kw commercial unit. A good 2-3k inverter runs about 1500-2000.
https://www.solar-electric.com/schneider-electric-sw-conext-inverter-2524-120.html
Thats an excellent inverter. Huge starting power for motors and you can parallel two units. They also have the option (costs extra for the controller) of charging the battering with the inverter at a high rate with a programmable 4 stage charge and it supports the generator if the load exceeds the generators capacity. A ton of useful features. Its a transformer based inverter so it has a few drawbacks vs solid state, like higher self draw (38 watts vs about usually 12 watts for the same size) and Slightly higher harmonic distortion. Similar priced solid states usually run around 2-3% this runs around 4-5%. Main power is considered clean if its under 6% and the voltage is above 110. So this is superior to main power. I have an exceltech inverter, very nice and pricey solid state but I wish i bought this. My grandpa has a similar model thats slightly bigger. Mine has no charger function, but it holds a perfect 120 and 60 hz with 1% THD at all times. Solid state inverters are not as good at starting motors. They can do it, high end ones have longer surge times but the cheap ones its like 100 ms which is useless. Mine will do double for 10 seconds. Don't even consider an inverter unless it can hold double for 5 seconds. Avoid AIMS. The prices are nice and they have similar features to the one i linked but the quality and longevity is hit or miss.

>>1203267
Fair enough.
I often forget that some places have better tax credits too.
(Alabama gives nothing from the state, other places do have state-level tax credits.)

>>1203374
If you're doing Grid-tied, like I said, you don't have to worry about the startup surge stuff as much, etc. You can just 'dump what you can into the grid and then rely on the rest to just be there'.

Now, if you're planning on running heavy duty equipment off-grid that uses 3-phase power, and might have a startup surge from a motor up to 40,000 or 50,000 watts, maybe more... this is where you get into the expensive inverters.

You can probably get one cheaper than $25k, especially if you look around for a good deal.
But I did say before, just make sure you're getting a quality product, or it'll just end up blowing up or damaging the expensive stuff connected to it.

Small Grid-tied inverters that shut off when the power goes out, aren't a big deal to get a hold of.
Off-grid inverters that are suitable for heavy loads (40,000 watts or so), that could supply 3-phase true-sine-wave power, you're gonna get up there in price real quick from what I have seen.
'Hybrid' (off and grid-tie) inverter systems (at this point we're really talking more of a 'system' for sure than just an 'inverter') that are suitable for heavy loads (40,000 watts or so, that could supply 3-phase power, are likely to be even more expensive.

Happened upon one of these on surplus( https://www.altestore.com/store/inverters/hybrid-inverters/outback-international-series-gfx1548-1500w-48v-invertercharger-p9614/ I have the 48volt model)but don't have the programming interface for it, any of you guys have experience with this product?

So what's the cheapest ground mount system? IronRidge seems to be super fucking expensive.

Properly engineered ones.

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I've been researching vanadium redox batteries because they're very cool. Just thought I'd share with /diy/

It's a rechargeable chemical battery. It's cheaper than lithium, , non-flammable, and has infinite lifetime. To increase store capacity of of the battery bank you simply add more fluid, which is cheap. To increase maximum output you simply add another redox membrane. The only downside to these batteries is low energy density. That is they're large and bulky, but that only matters with cars and non-stationary objects. It's going to be the future of energy storage IMO but it hasn't quite caught on yet.

>>1204973
I heard about that... but when I looked at the stuff originally it seemed like you were looking at around $20k to get even a small setup.

Did they get cheaper?

>>1204973
Nah lithium-air or glass batteries are going to be the future.

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Covered my batteries guys.

Now everyone who was worried about the house fire can relax. :P

>>1202031
protip: move the plants outside and cut out the middleman

>>1205194
that seems dangerous too
don't lead acid batteries give off heat or offgas?

>>1200169
>What are you using it for?
I'm using to it kill you and your familiy

>>1206130
The enclosure is vented, on the back and sides.

>>1206183
Good luck. We're behind at least 7 proxies.

>>1206128
But that's way less cool.

>>1204973
Feasibility in a battery always boils down to cost, energy density and how long it lasts. Energy density is optional if its stationary. So how much does it cost? Also what about freezing?

>>1206299
Operating temp is 50 and 104 degrees Fahrenheit (10 to 40 Celsius) but there's a second generation that works at 23 and 122 degrees Fahrenheit (-5 to 50 Celsius).

It uses sulfuric acid so freezing isn't the big issue. It's the material dissolved in the solution precipitating and crystallizing.

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Anyone got a solar attic fan?

>>1206524
Was considering building my own, as I have some seriously hot attic spaces that I'd love to use to say, store my battery bank and such, but they're too hot. T_T
Also I can't even store spare equipment in there when it's not in use in some cases because the attic will possibly exceed the thermal tolerances of the equipment for even storage.

I swear, fuck houses that were built recently. They're built to the cheapest price point, and they're thrown together by people who don't give a fuck.
(Probably aren't paid enough to give a fuck but still...)


I'm considering building an attic fan that fits into one of the existing vents, and I'd just put the panel on the roof outside the vent. It'd be easy enough to seal the small cable penetrating the existing vent hood.

>>1206584
I'm actually going to receive one next week, those fans are like 12-14 inch size and should be moving 1000+ cfms, not sure how you can diy it at that spec.

>>1206593
What model did you order?

>>1206595
Remington 20 watt, i want it more to depressurize the attic.

>>1206524
Attic fans are only useful when you are venting something like a warehouse. Where there is no insulated median between the living/working space and the attic space. Why? Because, unless you insulated layer is air tight (which it never is), the attic fan will create negative pressure and pull the cool air out of your living area and into the attic. Even if your attic is well vented this can still happen. And if it is so well vented that it doesn't then you won't see much improvement. Invest the money in better insulation or some kind of heat reflecting barrier. Or fully insulate the attic and start cooling it with your HVAC. I had to research this shit a while back and there is plenty of info on good.

>They're built to the cheapest price point, and they're thrown together by people who don't give a fuck.
My house was built in 1950. It was built to the cheapest standards of the day, has no wall insulation, asbestos containing Zonolite in the attic, and originally did not have any kind of HVAC. This is in an area that gets well above 100 degrees in the summer and can drop below freezing in the winter. Cheap housing is not a new thing. Hell, some of the houses in my town are 100 years old and their idea of septic back then was a wood-lined pit with a brick top and no bottom at all. Don't even get me started on old wiring standards. There will always be cheap shit and always be expensive shit. The problem we have is people expect cheap shit to be as good as expensive shit.

>>1206618
>the attic fan will create negative pressure and pull the cool air out of your living area and into the attic.

This is exactly what I want, right now the opposite is happening and the house smells terrible.

>inefficient
>ugly
>waste of precious metals
>expensive

PV plebs switch to solar thermal

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>>1206949

>>1206619
not true, have an old garage, upgraded it to two door garage via extension permit, much cheaper. Added sealed fiberglass insulation to the walls and the ceiling. Put up dry wall all over the inside, put up two peak air vents and one electric roof vent. In 115 degree heat, the garage is surprisingly cool and so is the attic. Turn that fan off though and turns into a barbecue.
The main thing with those solar powered vent fans is they usually have a VERY small output compared to utility wired vents. Aka more of them are needed for the same air displacement.

WORTH EVERY PENNY, just make sure you can replace the batteries yourself. Otherwise it is too expensive to have them fixed/repaired by others.

>>1202031
25 square meters of solar 17 % efficient just to power old HPS bulb @ 15%.. ehhh go for led you will get 400%more light from those.

So, I'll be replacing my aluminum bus bars, that I have determined to be too thin / resistive, with 2/0 AWG pure copper welding cable.
Should have that done at the end of this week when the stuff I ordered gets here.

Anyone got a good source for pure copper welding cable?
I'm gonna need some good 4 AWG welding cable soon, to make the run from my charge controller to my panels.
Since I'm gonna expand the array, the doubled up run of 12 awg aluminum shit isn't gonna work out.
I only need about 50 feet of red, 50 feet of black. (Or just 100 feet of one color, Idgaf...) But the prices I've seen are just... making me feel like I'm getting ripped off cause... dude... it's just a wire... (I know, copper costs $$$)

Before anyone asks, yes, the array is currently set up to be 'mobile' as in, if I want to collapse everything and pack it up in my truck, I can.
This is why I'd rather the welding cable than solid / thick stranded cable. easier to work with, can put a quick disconnect connector on there and then just unplug and coil up the cable with the charge controller and battery bank box.

>>1200195
You aren't supposed to post nsfw imagery in blue boards. Mods please remove.

>>1207790
>Anyone got a good source for pure copper welding cable?

Get quotes online and from your local welding supplier for comparison. Welding suppliers also stock lugs and lug crimpers. I make my truck and motorcycle cables from welding cable.

Fine strand copper welding cable does cost money, but it's worth it. You aren't getting ripped off if you find the lowest quote. Indiana Oxygen is a decent vendor.

Shipping will be expensive so you may be better off buying locally.

>>1207837

I've found under $1 per foot for pure copper 4 AWG.
That sound about right?

I wanted to invest into solar power generation and cover my roofs with photovoltaic panels but the government simply refuses to pay me for the electricity. They just give me the equivalent amount of kWh as "credits", which I'm "supposed to use" in cloudy days, and they will expire if unused. So there is zero incentive to generate more power than I use and it's not economically viable. It's just retarded.

>>1208534
Where are you located? Can't you go bigger and sell at wholesale rate?

>>1208588
>Where

Brazil.

>go bigger

I guess. I'm still studying my options but it's proving to be a massive bureaucratic pain in the ass. If I want to make money I'm gonna have make a company and start a photovoltaic power plant, draw up contracts with energy consumers which may or may not include mains electricity providers.

I do own quite a bit of real estate, which I rent out to people. I had this idea where I'd put photovoltaic panels on all the roofs and make some kind of distributed solar power plant that simultaneously got leased for people to live in. I can't determine the viability of the whole thing since it depends on how much I'll be selling the energy for, and apparently it's a free market with fluctuating, fully negotiable rates which are unknown to me.

All I wanted was to cover my own roof with panels, generate more than I consume and get paid by my mains provider while still having them as backup for when sun isn't out. Why can't things be simple...

>>1208635
See if there's energy market that you can sell into. But if you use enough electricity, the savings alone could be worth it for the smaller investment.

Over here in the coop areas, it's really damn simple.

>>1200169
Helped dad set up 10 panels on top of our house, eletrical bill is now almost non-existant (it was around 200 dollars before, which is a fucking lot here) for a house with 5 people, and considering my sister takes and hour to bath

i live near the equator tho, so there's that

>>1203025
Vfds turn ac into dc store it in capacitors and invert it into three phase ac. Cut the middle man, charge the dc bus directly. You will need to charge it to over 600 vdc to drive a 480ac motor.

You could go in the ac terminals if you derate the rectifier circuit. Older drives have better documentation for this

Know what your doing before you mess with high voltage

Time will be the biggest cost

>>1208817
>>1200169
i use 11khw daily what should my build be?

>>1208841
http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

>>1202649
Or buy solar edge with optimizers. Wiring is a joke, and you can add panels like it's Tetris

>>1207790
State electric for pure black. All they stock but its 10x cheaper than the brick and mortar stores.

>>1206584
What color is the roof? Also consider attic foil. A white roof with attic foil and north/south attic vents should be tolerable or barely above ambient.

>>1208858
I mean... if you have the money I guess...

>>1209030
>Attic vents on the north and south.
I wish it had vents.
It has 'a vent' that is a joke.

I guess I should consider seeing if we can add a vent somehow on the other side and enlarge the one it has currently.

>>1200259
>pools cost electricity
the more you know

>>1209093
A shit ton of power actually... Keeping it good and attractive pretty much requires running the pump 24/7 so the water gets constantly skimmed, filtered and treated.

You also have chemical treatment supplies you have to buy and if the pool has a heater that will increase the costs even further, although by how much depends on the heating method.

>>1209030
White roof looks like shit though.

>>1209131
>A shit ton of power actually... Keeping it good and attractive pretty much requires running the pump 24/7 so the water gets constantly skimmed, filtered and treated.

Get this anon, super efficient

http://www.jecod.com/en/displayproduct001.html?proID=1045340

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So I've been given a solar panel that has the glass shattered, but apparently still works. Thought I might use it to make a garden light or something.

What can I do to make the glass safe? Cover it with some kind of plastic film? Remove the glass completely?

>>1209260
Never tried this but, you could cover it with a clear epoxy resin.
I'm sure you'd lose some of the power output, but if you don't need it 'at full capacity' (I'd never expect a panel to be if it'd endured abuse like that), it might work pretty well.

You'd want to make sure you got 'very clear' epoxy though. Like, not that weird brown tinted stuff.
And don't use a very thick layer.

>>1209260
>What can I do to make the glass safe?

Throw it in the trash.

Got the solar attic fan installed for a few days now and it is incredible. i should have installed it years ago.

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>>1209416
>solar attic fan

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I just picked up pic related to run a Goal Zero Yeti for a camping trip and the damn panels use these antiquated SAE connectors you would see on a motorcycle battery or automotive use from the 1970's. My Yeti has an 8mm input so I gotta change the cables on the panels to MC4 which is no big deal for me but for the life of me where can I find out the schematics on SAE connectors so I know which is positive and which is negative?

>>1200245
i would literally steal w/o even jumping the fence
i'd take that enclosure too
> nice s-10

>>1203229
the sun is still the most efficient
as for 365 make a green house with retractable roof
maybe a few panels for all the plants u can fit
set it up lengthwise on your property so you can keep expanding

>>1209454
>Which is positive
Umm... dude... use a multimeter. It may also be marked if you look carefully.

Also, I really really don't understand why on earth anyone would buy those things.
The Harbor Freight panels (Or the Goal Zero Yeti things...) pricey as fuck for the capabilities... D:


>>1209487
I'd have a nice shot of your face by then.
I'll be moving that panel though.
(Also, that enclosure is on the back side of the fence. You'd have to either be 8 feet tall to reach over and undo it or you'd have to jump the fence. And the dogs are butthurt as fuck about negros, I wouldn't recommend it.)

>>1209416
Sweet. Good to know it worked!

Did you cut an additional hole in your roof or such? Or just replace an existing vent?

>>1209447
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Ventilation-Attic-Fans-Vents-Solar-Attic-Fan/N-5yc1vZc662

>>1209494
Replaced one of the static vent with it, they had to make the hole bigger though, new one is 14 inch diameter.

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I know this is /diy/ but I got solar from solar city because it was the lowest cost of entry, but here is my monthly generated power in Massachusetts for this year so far. This is a 3KW grid tie system with no battery backup (although, I get UPSs and batteries from work for free)

My electric bill has been between $25 and $40 a month and I have 2 servers running 24/7. I think I'm doing OK

>>1209878
>solar city

How does the deal work?

>>1209260
Seal it whichever way so dust/particles don't get in there.

>>1209878
Whats your monthly kwh usage? Judging by your @25-40 , I'd say 500-~700?

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>>1209454

those are actually really nice solar panels. i picked a set up when they came out, and even on a cloudy day they put out close to full power.

also are you sure you actually bought the kit? because it comes packaged with a whole set of adapter cables, and there's even more adapters available. you might even be able to find an adapter with the plug you need on ebay.

because that's how the setup is designed.

https://www.harborfreight.com/solar-power-connection-cable-kit-68684.html

>>1209891

They do everything; permits, planning, installation, parts, monitoring, and maintenance.

You finance whatever the cost is if you don't have the cash. They take about 25% off the top of the cost as an instant rebate from the government and you get 30% when you file your taxes on the entire value

ie: $13,000 - 25% = $10,000 this is what you pay

then you get a tax credit for $3,900 the next year so the total out of pocket was $6,100

With this you own the panels and any surplus goes back to the grid. These are rough numbers.

>>1209897
Do you make money on the surplus? What's the dollar per watt cost end up?

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>>1209895

check out the chart on the corner, the panels went live midway through october last year

>>1209898

I haven't had a surplus, the problem is we had no average energy usage and installed the smallest system we could. I would have gone much bigger but the wife didn't want to spend more on the panels. I has helped immensely because all of the appliances are gas. In our last apartment everything was electric and cost us $250+ a month in the middle of summer and winter.

>>1209899

Forgot to add that we had no heat for a couple weeks in December and ran multiple space heaters to keep the house warm.

>>1209493
I'm a newbie to solar and I do a lot of /out/ and /k/ related activities so yeah its more expensive if you use these kits to wire a house for solar, but I'm using it for the campsite.

As for the cables being labeled, no they are not and since I could use my multimeter I wanted some schematics or wiring diagram just to make sure.

Yeah I'll admit that Goal Zero stuff is pricey but once you get all the components to build a solar generator and assemble it the cost of the Goal Zero Yeti would be around the same once you factor in your time as well.

>>1209896
Yes I bought the kit, and it was the amorphous solar panels in the kit is what sold me on it... well outside the coupon.

The adapter cable that comes with the kit has a SAE to 5.1mm adapter cable, my Yeti's input is an 8mm coax plug.

There was a 6mm to 8mm adapter cable that came with my Yeti and I scoured Ebay, MCM Electronics, Goal Zero's website, as well as the general web itself and the only thing that came close to what I was looking for was a SAE to 6mm from Goal Zero that is intended as an output cable instead of an input cable. Or, I could take one of the adapter cables that came with the solar panels, cut off the 5.1mm coax and replace it with MC4 cables and get the proper adapter cable from Goal Zero.

I just wanted to venture here and find out if anyone else had the same problem and could offer suggestions.

>>1209901
Ehhh... what model of the Goal Zero Yeti did you get? I'd imagine I could get pretty close even if I paid myself $50 an hour for assembly.

And I guess I wouldn't really ever consider my time in something like that as it'd be 'fun' for me somewhat, but still.


>>1209896
Interested to know, have you tested the current from them as well in less-than-ideal lighting conditions?
I always wrote the harbor freight solar stuff off because it was so... harbor freight. :P
But to be fair, the panels with stand (if using it for a really small mobile system) might be worth it if they actually put out the rated current pretty consistently.

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Upgraded my battery bank today.

2/0 pure copper welding wire for battery interconnects.
Should be way better than my thin bus bars.

>>1200195
How long do batteries last if you fill them up but don't use them?

Does temperature affect them?

>>1210646
They're sealed lead acid, and according to the spec sheets, 6 months. Now, I'd give that about 3 months realistically before you'd have any notable discharge.


Temperature changes do affect them, but I've found them to be (so far) pretty tolerant of the average climate here.
Cold Temperatures do affect them, but if they're fully charged, they won't freeze as easily in cold weather. If they were discharged and kept below 32 F (0 C) they could freeze eventually. If they're fully charged, I think the spec sheet says they can go down to around 0 F.
Hot Temperatures do also affect them, but as long as you're talking ~85 - 90 F in the shade, they'll be fine. My enclosure keeps them around 83 F on average when they're outside on the porch like that it seems. Cooler if the outside isn't gross and hot like it is in summer here. The spec sheet of course recommends they be at 75 F all the time if possible, but my 83 F is within the tolerance.

>>1210504
why didn't you just get some proper bus bars? would have been way cheaper.

>>1210690
I considered it, but in the end it didn't end up that much cheaper and I had never tried making cables that big, so I wanted to give it a go.
So far they're performing well.

I may eventually of course substitute some huge thick solid copper bus bars.
The cables though, do have the advantage of letting me change my batteries out if I end up getting slightly different ones, as they're not rigid as far as spacing.

>>1210397
I got the Yeti 150. Yeah it's the small one but I figured it would take me a while in researching on what size of inverter as well as the best battery that would work as well as making it portable and all that. I factored my time in the research part as well as the time used in construction.
I'm back in school so any unnecessary time wasted is very valuable, plus I mentioned that I'm a newbie when it comes to solar and what time I would use to learn about solar I should invest it in understanding the panels first as there are a few things I should figure out first.

Don't get me wrong, after I finish school and start working in my field I will be able to go out and get a really good system and build it to my specs.

>>1210504
Nice. Do you have DC fusing?

>>1210819
The plan:
Charge controller will have a 50 amp breaker on the negative side. (Positive ground charge controller.)
Inverter cables fused separately, 150 amps.

If I had paid more for these batteries (and if they didn't sit on my brick / concrete patio) I'd probably have wanted to fuse each battery.


Currently:
Charge controller has cheap in-line fuse (40 amps automotive).
Inverter has it's own fuse internally.

>>1210832
Good plan!
Individual fusing is the ideal way to go but a hefty investment. I know a guy who had a boat with a house bank consisting of six 6v golf cart type batts in a series/parallel configuration for 12v out. One of the batteries faulted (internal short?) and started rapidly drawing current from neighbouring batteries. A lot of damage.

>>1210797
I suppose for a few little devices, the 14ah battery is probably pretty good. Is it heavy?
I know I can look up the weight but, like, is it easy to carry?


I built myself a small 250 watt-hour pack with charge controller (currently working on expanding and re-casing it) out of lithium cells.
I paid about $60 including the 20 watts of solar cells I am using to charge it at the moment.

Plan is to expand it to 500 watt-hours, re-case it, and get a foldable 100 watt solar panel to go with it, and that'll be my backpacking system. The re-case will include a 250 watt inverter to charge my laptop off of it, as well as run any off-grid communications and radios I want that don't use 12 volts.
Should weigh about what the Yeti 150 does (12 pounds or there about) and deliver the power that I need when in the field for long periods of time.

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>>1209899
Your bill looks exactly like the paper from from my electricity supplier: BC Hydro. It offers an interesting comparison on the cost breakdown. No pv's online yet, just a top floor bachelor suite with an excellent sun exposure. 71% of my bill is fees & taxes.

>>1210864
Are you saying that you only pay $20 something each month, without any solar or renewable energy systems?

>>1210864
>71% of my bill is fees & taxes.

JUST

>>1210864
>71% of my bill is fees & taxes.
The "basic charge", which is over half your bill, is neither a tax or a fee. It is what is paid to the power company for their infrastructure. The "energy charge" is the cost of power you use. Think of the power as the product and the 'basic charge' as the shipping. Calling it a fee is kind of disingenuous. It implies that it is some extra thing they are charging you because they are greedy or something. Like airlines charging for overhead storage.

>>1210998
>their infrastructure

That was funded by taxpayer money in the first place. Besides, they charge transmission per kwh already, there is no reason to have a regressive flat fee.

>>1210837
>Is it heavy?
Well, it has a sealed lead acid battery so not really, but if they used a Lithium ion battery with the same amp hours then the weight would drop in half. It's about 12 pounds in weight BTW.

I really haven't started to mess around with it so I really can't answer how long the charge lasts with different devices but I have talked with someone who uses the 150 with a CPAP machine when he goes camping and if he's using the inverter the battery will last only one night but the on board fan makes too much noise. However if he uses a 12 volt adapter he can get two full nights minus the humidifier, one and a half with the humidifier.
I have a family member who uses a CPAP machine and I thought about getting something like the Yeti for some time in case there is a major blackout like there was back in 2003.

What's your thoughts on amorphous solar panels? Are they actually worth the hype compared to noncrystalline?

>>1211066
The panel type that will be best depends on what specific type, your use case, the temperature of the area, and many other factors.
Choosing your panels for the environment they will be used in. Some have advantages in one area where others will not.
Budget is of course also a consideration, as always.


My understanding is that the major thing for amorphous panels is that they're cheap... :/
They're less efficient in general as I understand compared to the other types. (9 - 11% efficiency).

I use giant mirrors to reflect the sunlight back at the sun, so that the sun reabsorbs it's own light, making it more powerful, which in turn generates more solar energy able to be harvested by solar panels.

>>1211125
I'm fairly certain this is a joke... because this is a special kind of retarded.

(IE the 'free energy' / 'perpetual motion machine' people kind of retarded.)

>>1211125
Holy shit, I could be making a shit ton of money selling cheap ass mirrors to retards like yourself

>>1210661
Thank you!

I don't know the exact numbers but it seems my panels produce more than we use and the power company buys the excess (they don't do that anymore to new customers)

Anyone have a good tool for measuring solar irradiance?
Any good resources for averages and such?

Trying to figure out if I should be getting better yields than I am, or if yet again based on my conditions, I'm just getting shafted my nature. :P

>>1211347
Some of those personal weather station can do it.

>>1211096
>9 - 11% efficiency

Damn, I didn't know it was that low.
What about the rumors about amorphous panels dong better in low light/indirect sunlight? Any truth to this?

For right now this is solely for camping/hunting and as an emergency backup for power as I have family members who need to use CPAP machines.
I've learned a lot since my original post and right now if I had the funds to go full off grid with solar I would go with monocrystalline panels as they do best over the long run. The batteries and the inverters are another area I will have to read up before i make any decisions. However for now I'm happy with a simple portable solar generator.

On a flat surface, do solar panels laying flat on the ground produce as much energy as panels facing the sun?
I get putting a panel on a particular side of the roof, since those are slanted, but when you look at any picture of a solar farm, they're designed to rotate with the sun like a sunflower.

Intuitively, it sounds like it shouldn't make any difference which direction a panel is facing so long as light is reaching the panel. It's not as if the calculations are anything like magnetic flux density.

>>1212712
There are some types of panels that are going to be coming to market (hopefully soon) in the future that will be able to absorb a wider spectrum of the light that the sun gives off. This includes some of the UV range and such, which will really help with power generation during cloudy times. (Ever get a sun burn on a cloudy day? Yea... that UV shit's powerful man.)

As far as amorphous being better in low light / indirect light? I have heard that very specific types of panels (not ones that are widely sold it seems) have claimed to do better in low light / indirect light. But the reality is these efficiency gains seem to be very very small.

Since the overall efficiency in general tends to be better of crystalline panels, I usually go with those unless something else warrants using a different type.
Side note:
CPAP can use a boatload of power, depending on the varieties and such.(Also 'how many' CPAP machines? I mean, it's a reasonable question. I've got friends that literally their whole family's hooked up like Darth Vader when they sleep. Shit's weird yo. It apparently really helps though.)

>>1212868
It depends on the time of year, and your sun conditions. But the differences can be HUGE.

Laying flat on the ground, your panels may get less light actually than tilted toward the sun at the correct angle.

During the summer, especially in areas 'near the equator', you're talking basically flat on the ground, looking up at the sky, and that's your 'best angle'.

If you're in Maine however, your panels need to be tilted toward the sun, as it's not 'directly overhead' basically all year round.

>>1212868
>>1212904
When I say 'HUGE' I mean like 20 - 40%.

>>1212902
I have to amend my previous response about the efficiency regarding 'low light' conditions, but not how people might look at it:

Specifically, it seems that many popular 'thin film' or 'amorphous' panels on the market are MUCH BETTER when it comes to shading in one way:
If you partially shade an amorphous panel, say 50% shaded, you are likely to get only 50% of it's normal power.
If you partially shade a crystalline panel, say 50% shaded, you are likely to get ~10% or so of it's normal power. Maybe less depending on specifics.

I'm not sure about why, it's interesting. I'll have to look into it more.

>>1212902
>There are some types of panels that are going to be coming to market

Yeah, in another 50 years.

>>1212936
Killing my dreams.
But yea, I know, the advances are slow.

>>1212916
Interesting to say the least, hell I thought that all panels that were shaded 50% only generated about 50% of power, now I know.

Right now there will only be one person that needs the CPAP machine for the emergency backup as they have sleep apnea real bad, there are two others that use one but could go a night or two without theirs.

Just got the adapter cable from the UPS man and dummy me I failed to doublecheck the adapter cable that came with my Yeti. I thought it was a 6mm to 8mm, instead it's a 4.7mm to 8mm, anyway the SAE cable is a 6mm male to SAE and for the life of me I can't find any 4.7mm male connectors to fix my mistake. Sucks when Radio Shack closed all their stores in my area a couple of months ago.
Anyone know what the official part names are for these coaxial plugs? The small is a 4.7mm and the large one that plugs directly into the Yeti is an 8mm, kinda looks like the power plug from a Lenovo Thinkpad power supply.

>>1214217
Not sure about those power plugs. :/

Does this have the 'end' you're looking for on it?
www amazon.com/dp/B00N80YN2K/

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>>1200169
How viable is going off the grid and exclusively using solar energy if I'm going to be frequently using a PC?

>>1214419

Is very viable but depends on lots of factors.

How many hours of sun you have on summertime and in winter?,

How close are to the ecuator?.

What average power comsumption do you have?

Of course most of the problems can be solved by paying more for the solar array, the battery bank, a good charged and the inverter (oversizing your installation), unless the problem is lack of sun.

>>1214419
Battery cost kills it.

>>1214419
My PC + 3-feet wide screen + router + sound system is around 900 watts, but only if I'm playing graphically intense video games at near full volume. Which I don't do.

90% of my electric bill is PC use ($30-$35). In the humid as balls summer the AC use increases it to about $40-$42. I only have a few lights, box fan, and fridge that need electric. I have all manner of power tools, but I also have manual non-electric versions of most everything. I use the latter more than the former unless I really just need to use an angle grinder, drill press, or Dremel for special shit.

However, I also have a wee tiny underpowered netbook that uses 32watts (it can play PS1 emulated games, but has trouble with any video over 720p/hi-bitrate and any type of flash). I use it plus an external HDD when the electric is out. I can recharge it with my exercise bike which is converted to a recumbent PC chair electric generator. Yes, it takes a LOT of pedaling to recharge anything of note. Ratio is like 5 hours of pedaling for 1 hour of netbook runtime (mostly due to shitty generator design).

The only reason I don't have a solar system is battery costs. I can never recoup the return on batteries. I could use a solar array for everything except PC and AC. I could have it grid tied so that when the sun is out, the panels are used and when there's no sun the grid is used instead. There's no net metering in my area either. We could help pay off the electric bill each month using solar for net metering, but coal lobbyists got rid of that a few years ago.

All-in-all, my PC is the main thing holding me back for solar. I'd like to make some cheap wind turbines (VAWTs) just because of the fun DIY factor. They'd still need batteries to be most useful.

If all you want is to be off-grid then yes, solar and wind can work for you. You won't save money due to batteries and battery replacement. If you don't mind that fact, go for it!

>>1214419
Very viable I'd say. It's not like PCs have to use a shitload these days.
You can have a killer desktop for everything but high end gaming and it'll draw ~30 watts while idle.
PCs are not the huge thing anymore necessarily.
Air conditioning however, is.


>>1214445
>around 900 watts
Christ. That's a computer. And it sounds inefficient. :/
Okay, how much does your PC use at IDLE. (You sleep, I assume? You do other things I assume?)
>netbook
>32 watts
I hope that's the MAX draw of it... otherwise that thing is seriously shitty for the performance.

If you use $30 - $35 of power per month, how much is your power per kwh?
That will give us a decent idea of what sort of daily usage you have.

Your PC shouldn't be the problem for solar. I'd assume the AC is, because it's probably way larger and the startup current means you have to have a FUCKHUGE inverter, but maybe you just don't use AC much where you live?


I run several of my PCs off solar, and I only have a 400 watt system right now. Now, those PCs are very low power at idle (less than 50 watts total), but when not idle they do indeed use some power. (~200 - 300 watts total).
If the sun is out, I'm almost never draining my batteries.


A recommendation to everyone:
If you're looking for batteries, look for high end industrial / commercial batteries used for server rack UPS's and stuff. Not those 12 volt 9 ah ones, we're talking the 100 ah ones.
Sometimes you can get high quality batteries barely used (or new!), for a fraction of the original retail price.

>>1214490
>Sometimes you can get high quality batteries barely used (or new!), for a fraction of the original retail price.


Kek, let us know in a year how that idea turned out.

>>1214494
I definitely will.

>>1214490
Any idea where to look for industrial batteries used? I've asked around a few telecom companies, but they tell me they always trade the batteries in for scrap. Haven't tried large offices yet, but I suppose I'll give it a try.

>>1214522
Those batteries lasts like 3 years. By the time they sell them, the life is down below 6 months.

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>>1200169
I know I'm late but going back to OP, I live in coal country in the US, and since we mine the coal here our power is cheap as hell. My power bill for a 3 bedroom 2 full bath house was about $120 a month. I changed all my lights out to LED and it went under $80 a month on most months assuming I don't keep my AC set to 70°F. I would never, ever get my money's worth if I used solar. Wind maybe, but the cost of batteries is insane regardless. It's just not economically feasible for me. I think the US should switch to all nuclear power and focus on building better efficiency reactors that are safer. When I lived in Cali, I was near a nuke plant and power bills were like 40 a month. If that.

>>1214561
>power is cheap as hell.
>My power bill for a 3 bedroom 2 full bath house was about $120 a month

My power bill was a negative number for the last 18 months.

>>1214523
Well shoot I guess that's why they just scrap them then. Thanks for the info.

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>>1214490
>Christ. That's a computer.

The PC's PSU alone is max 600watts. Everything just adds to it. Idle is about 200watts, but it is never ever idle when it is turned on and floats around 530watts. I has six cores, a massive heatsink with 2 fans (room temp is 80F an CPU temp is 86F right now), and Radeon HD 6950 card, but everything is pretty old. At one time the PC was on 24hours then only 16 hours a day. Now, It is on maybe 10 hours a day. Sound system is only 100watts.

>I hope that's the MAX draw of it.

That's the spec on the bottom. I guess it is 36w, not 32w. It can run without the battery using only the wall adapter which is rated at 12v 3a, but probably outputs at 13v-15v. It runs WinXP (ASUS EEE-900SD) and is pretty damn slow for most everything.

>AC

It stays on 8hrs at night with fan directed right on me. It is only 466 watts. 5k BTU. I can get away with something that small because I use it for spot cooling me instead of cooling the room or house. The remote has a "follow me" function that turns it on/off when the temp is reached where ever it is.

>cost/kw

Nothing has changed, in the house, since this bill was issued. Except the time of year. My last bill was like 10 cents under $40. My summer max has been hovering just under 400kwh/month since this bill. I get a special discounted rate because I run a farm.

Of were to go full off-grid electrically, I'd prefer to have solar-wind combo and have each be able to make 2kwh. Every so often I have to have some serious watts for power tools. So peak continuous running would be 1.8kwh with whatever spike happens when they turn on.

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>>1214626
>>1214490
Here's the netbook. Don't mind the pic, it is for trolling /diy/ when I feel snarky. When the power is out, I can use the 105ah deep cycle battery. I also have a 2kw inverter that takes care of most things I need (unless I want to use a corded power drill. lol)

>>1214629
>Don't mind the pic, it is for trolling /diy/ when I feel snarky
suuuure

>>1214626
>that estimate
what the fuck lol

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>>1214571
From using solar or just at normal consumption? My power company doesn't buy back power so that is an invalid argument for me. Also what was the negative number? I'm not going to spend 10k on a solar setup to earn that money back 18 dollars at a time.

>>1214690
Deregulation free market and monthly credit is a beautiful thing.

See http://www.powertochoose.org/

Anyone have experience with battery equalizers?

I'm gearing up to redo the power system on my boat. Currently looking at 5 to 6, 300 watt panels feeding a mppt controller into a 24v battery bank. Main problem is I have a lot of 12v loads that can't be converted to 24v. Working plan is to wire the 12v loads off the first battery and use an equalizer to balance the batteries. Thoughts?

>>1210868
Yes. This the 2nd highest bill i've ever had in the 24 months i've lived here. My next bill is in 2 days... i'll see where I stand consumption-wise then.

>>1214700

Nice website, but doesn't apply to me. There are 3 power companies in my area, but spoiler alert, they are all owned by the same company. So... There is really only one. I used to work for them, the Obama years nearly tanked them. Coal power was taking a beating for those 8 years but most of the country is run on it. People don't realize that the liberals we're about to turn the nation's lights off with their EPA policies. I'm all for saving the environment, but I think safer, better nuclear reactors really are the way to go. Properly managed their fuel can be reused almost indefinitely and provide virtually free power. Solar is nice, but it's too expensive to manage and the cells degrade over time.

>>1214753
Texas electricity is close to free right now thanks to the federal payment on every kwh produced by wind, so you are actually subsidizing our power prices.

Cheers!

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>>1214761
Sounds good until you learn that it's called a power grid for a reason. It's all tied together. The power you're using in Texas may not come from those renewable resources. States pull electricity from other states plants all the time for varying reasons. Hell, In Ky we probably use some of your power to start up one of our coal plants whenever they bring a new burner online and vice versa whenever some of your turbines quit producing at necessary capacity. Really what I'm saying is that it's a tangled mess and the government is retarded for trying to make blanket legislation when they clearly don't understand how any of this shit works.

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>>1214781
Texas got it's own grid.

>>1214786
I stand corrected. As always Texas is trying to be it's own country and making the rest of the US look stupid. My fiance has family near Austin. I may be moving there in a few years. I notice it doesn't cover the whole state but that's hardly an issue since it covers most of it and most of the major cities. The point remains though, if you kill coal power most of the country is going to have brown/blackouts.

>>1214787
Yeah, I don't get the lib's hatred for coal either.

>>1214285
>www amazon.com/dp/B00N80YN2K/

The barrel plug is the 8mm connector, the others are the MC4, I've been to several computer shops and only one kinda understood what i was getting at and at least tried to help to find the right connector. I swear, computer techs can't seem to figure shit out when its not directly related to software installs or setting up IP protocols. Whatever happened to the real techs that used to have side projects that actually knew about electronics and shit?

>>1214787
> As always Texas is trying to be it's own country and making the rest of the US look stupid.

Every state IS its own country. The USA is like the UN. It is a union of small country states. That is why states can refuse to follow federal laws. The only real backlash they get for that is reduction in aid money for various things. The most recent example of this is the legalization of weed shit.

>>1214523
Depends on the battery. Some (if treated properly) do last longer than that. Telecom backup batteries (depending on type) will often be rated for 5 - 10 years of service.


>>1214522
The batteries you want will have been 'used' as in 'Shipped out with a product that was unboxed and had been set up, but then returned shortly afterwards.'
You can also find new batteries that were for some reason surplus, or delivered / unboxed but never put into service.

Try places that deal in batteries specifically. If a customer buys a battery and returns it a day later because it was the wrong size / wrong type, etc., they can't sell it as new. Some places won't sell it at all unless you specifically ask the manager. Often, they're required to sell it as used or return to their supplier for recycling.
(This only of course works for honest places. You'll need to be a bit savvy to determine if you're getting screwed over.)

Of course, even with the best of quality and assurances, you're looking to pay 1/4 or less of the retail cost if you are not simply buying 'new off the shelf' batteries.
Why? Because you're taking a risk, and everyone involved knows it. So in exchange for the risk, you want to be getting a sweet discount.

>>1214561
It costs us (in Alabama, USA) about $700 to $900 a month for our power bill for a 5 bedroom, 4 bath house.

The reason is our air conditioning system, which has to work way overtime during 9 months of the year. Using alternative energy systems as well as things like Geothermal cooling will save our asses from those $900 power bills. There's something to be said for not having a repetitive cost.
Also since solar power (and hopefully wind soon) stuff is kind of a fun thing for me, I factor that in to what it's costing me. Entertainment is worth something.


A lot of places currently won't ever break even with a residential solar system, and that's a big deal breaker for some.
For others, depending on usage and why you want it, it's worth it.

>>1214626
Wow... only 400 KWhrs a month? Not bad.
Technically you'd need only around 5KW of solar to do the job most days. :D

That's really not bad at all.

Add some wind to it and you're awesome.

>>1214938
I mean, if you have net metering as an option, the 5KW or solar would probably make your bill 0 or negative.
And Grid-Tie is super fucking cheap if you DIY.

>>1214861
True, but in terms of infrastructure it's much more interconnected than most people think. Additionally, 95% of the time states follow federal mandates. Weed is one of the rare exceptions.

>>1214934
>$700 to $900 a month

How? How many kwh? How is that possible?

>>1214962
Not with a swamp cooler. Arizona is like perfect weather for one and they don't use much power.

>>1214962
About 7000 per month. The $700 - $900 bill includes water and sewer though, but that's a very small portion of the bill.
It's about 8000 watts all day and all night for the whole house AC. Other usages (TVs, computers, lights all the time...) and all electric cooking stuff don't help either.


>>1214979
Arizona is perfect swamp cooler weather.
Alabama, swamp coolers don't work. They'd try to make the air even more disgustingly humid than it already is, and they'd mostly fail because the air's already saturated with water.

>>1214753
lel. I remember the halcyon days (daze??) of the 1970s and "..nuclear power too cheap to meter." It didn't quite work out that way did it.

>>1214984
You need to seal your house up and weatherize it. That may only cost you $1k max (mine was $200 in caulking and Great Stuff), it if it really bad and leaky. Then you can save something like $500-$600 every month.

https://energy.gov/energysaver/blower-door-tests

>>1200369
There are constantly news about some new revolutionary battery type -almost- ready to hit the markets. And then fucking nothing. I suspect it's just fishing for goverment grants or stuff like that.

>>1214984
>8000 watts all day and all night for the whole house AC

I'm sorry that's impossible unless we are talking about a 50,000 square feet mansion.

Are you sure no one is stealing electricity from you?

>>1215011
Nuclear is actually the most expensive power there is once you factor in all the permanent land contamination costs from past and future meltdowns.

>>1215145
Not 100% on that. There are some neighbors that do particularly hate us for whatever reason.

We do however have two compressor units outside, and each does draw about 3300 watts each, so 6600 watts total.

The two indoor blower units each draw at least 600 watts each, so 1200 watts.

7800 watts, all day every day. More depending on the fan speed.


House is only a 3000 square foot house I think. It's not like, in the 10's of thousands of square feet.

>>1215201
I should add that the way our house sits, it gets as much sun as physically possible.
When it was built, I wasn't around to bitch at them for creating a house that was basically an oven.
Also, the weather here is just always 80 F or above, 9 months out of the year.


>>1215038
It seems that I'd have to re-insulate the whole house inside the walls, but definitely worth looking into if there are any particularly bad offending doors / windows, etc.

>>1215201
Have you gotten the AC unit checked to see if they are low on refrigerants? Do that, then buy an amp meter from home depot, and verify the watts. I know 3000 square feet houses in Texas that uses $100 a month total.

Something is not right anon. (unless you are running a grow up/server farm as well)

>>1215146
too bad coal pollutes more radio active isotopes than nuclear

>>1215205
Heh, if only it were that simple (as that I was running too many grow lights. :P)
We had the AC units serviced recently. Power usage hasn't dropped, and they said the refrigerants were at the appropriate levels.

I'm aware that something isn't right, but we just haven't found <what>.
It's weird.

My guess, is that while these units do tend to draw quite a bit, they are actually undersized for the home. This causes them to run a much higher duty cycle than they normally would to cool the house, resulting in the ridiculous power usage, and temperatures that aren't even comfortable in much of the house.


I've got a few current clamp meters, I'll have to verify the power going to the units at some point soon again.

>>1215210
For your reference, I've been using a 6000 btu(half ton) window AC to cool my 1000 square feet house when the outside is 80-100f.

It uses 500 watts 24/7. It maintains the indoor temperature between 78-84f. This is a old leaky house with almost no insulation in the attic.
You are using 16 times the power.

I just hate to see an anon getting ripped off like that...

>>1215210
>grow lights

Well, no shit you have a high bill. If you haven't already, switch to LEDs. Less heat, less watts needed. Mine are like $20/month when starting seedlings for the next growing season outside. So, I pay $40 for 2 months before I set them out.

>>1209260
Look up "solar panel laminating" on amazon and buy the silicone they used to make the panels. That glass probably can't be removed very well since it's usually glued right to the cells. So coating the other side in the same stuff should work well. If you buy the cheap kind it'll yellow in a few years and reduce power output so spring for the legit stuff.

>>1215212
Wow.
That's... pretty impressive.

I do appreciate the thoughts and input. It's really annoying how much power we tend to use.
I wish there was a log (like my charge controller now has) for how much power went where. Or at least how much we were using at any given time of day. This would give me clues as to if someone might be tapping our power or something, without having to stare at the meter all day.

>>1215218
I was joking. No grow lights here, only actual legal plants outside. :P

>>1215226
Wire this to your two ACs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/381987486223?ul_noapp=true

Do you have a well?

>>1215231
Don't currently have a well, but it's an option I'm told.

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>>1206949
Relevant

>>1215665
Kek, once you factor in contamination costs nuclear would be negative. Fukushima alone is a trillion dollar+ disaster that keeps on growing.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Imperium-12V-40A-Solar-Charge-Controller-Regulator-String-240vdc-Input-/253060744581?hash=item3aeb988585:g:HakAAOSwPRxZdVo0

Anyone know a source for 'specialty' rated breakers / fuses?

Looking for a breaker or fuse that is rated at essentially 39 amps.

Why you might ask?
Well, my charge controller is rated for 40 amps output. I want this thing to trip if it exceeds 39 amps.


Also, has anyone actually figured out if the Tracer A-series units are 'dumb enough' to kill themselves if there's a 'sun spike' (Cold temps, brighter than normal, etc.)? Or will they only 'use' their rated current to charge the battery?

If you're 'at 500 watts input' and then the available solar power from the panels goes to say, 550 watts... what happens? I assume it just doesn't use the extra power... but if I were a really cheap chinese manufacturer... I bet I could come up with a way that it would fry itself instead.

>>1215806
No, that is factory in containment costs
All of the bad shit from Fukushima has already decayed away

Would sure be nice if the watermelons would let people build nuclear power. Green on the outside, communist on the inside. The solution is never to stop funding stupid government programs like inefficient solar or wind shit that is nothing but a way to give money to backers

Fuck your hat for bringing this shit up on my /diy. You're a goddamn bootlicker and will be up against the wall with everyone else when the globalists come to kill us all

>>1216711
No it isn't. Once you factor it in there is no return from nuclear power whatsoever. The reason they are still operating is because the taxpayer socialized the losses while the profit is privatized.

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>>1216713
Putting shit in a barrel and loading it into an abandoned salt mine is not that expensive. It is expensive now because green faggots won't allow for permanent storage

Most waste can be recycled

Coal, oil, solar, wind all have costs too. The fossil fuels are very hazardous to produce. Solar and wind create toxic batteries and are use toxic solvents and resins to produce

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html
Death rate per watt hour, nuclear
Blows out everyone else

Now that the folks at EESTOR let us down (I never bought stock, but I had such hopes), if I were going to do a serious install, I'd use lots of iron-nickel batteries. They're crappy as batteries go, but they almost never go bad. You can use them for freakin' decades.

Bulky, heavy, prone to discharging, low energy density ... but if I were a SHTF type, that's what I'd get.

>tfw you will never bid and win on a lot of 90%+ functioning 11 year old 2200mah batteries off a British Nuclear Submarine for £80 a piece

>>1216711
>All of the bad shit from Fukushima has already decayed away
(137)Cs has a 30-year half life, shitnigger.
>>>/pol/

>>1216711
>brings political disinformation onto /diy/
>can't between liberal and communist
>wants this shit off of (((my))) /diy/
Aristocrat salt is best salt.

>>1216729
ah not mah. 2200ah

>>1216735
Fulushima hasn't leaked enough radioactive strontium to poison even give cancer to apex predators, much less be detected on the west coast

YouTube Fukushima beyond busted, skip to 1240

Even if it was a thousand times worse, it would be less than background radiationif you ate pacific tuna that has surely been exposed to the Fukushima death ploom, you would get a thousand times higher dose from a banana

>>1216735
>political disinformation
>shilling for big solar
Literally a hyperinflation engine that only looks profitable because the national government throws so much money at it in subsidies. If you value your currency to a watt of energy, the roi on solar and wind is always negative, it lives off of other positive energy sources

Your government takes your money and gives it to their environmental friends, and then tell you to take even more of your money and buy their subsidized solar panels

File: nuclear vs renewables subsidies.jpg (102KB, 1200x904px) Image search: [Google]

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Really gets the almonds activated

>>1216753
>ignoring cesium
>whines about nonexistent strontium

>>1216757
>ignoring hydrocarbon subsidy
>whines about wind subsidies
Is there a reason that both of you should not go right outside and commit suicide by cop? Serious question.

>>1216770

The video also covers cesium. Strontium bio accumulates more readily so it is of greater concern. Cesium acts like sodium, so it is easily eliminated from the body by your metabolism, and does not reach high concentrations, or stay indefinitely

Cesium can become an indefinite resident inside your body if it binds to your bones

>>1216736
Fucking christ! Those would be some fucking batteries!
I mean... that's "Air conditioning all night long" from one battery (assuming that's 12 volts per battery.)