Suggestion with HVAC

>>1169599
Just pay the guy.

>>1169600
fuck that bullshit. $600 for almost no work? he'll probably go and break some more shit in the process too. all the HVAC guys in the area are a crock of inexperienced shit.

>>1169599
I will say im an HVAC tech, but not one of those rip you off residential ones. most manufacturers will put the model/serial information inside the electrical/controls section of the unit due to the old problem of the nameplate weathering and being unreadable.

Next is if your system is 11 years old I would almost guess it's R-22 not R410a. granted around that time it was the transition years to 410a but most builder specials would be R-22. R22 was phased out and a 30lb jug costs on average $650-700. Filter driers are usually pretty tough and I have seen rusted to shit ones last 20 years. with a 11 year old system I wouldn't be too concerned with it. by the time it fails it will be worth the money to replace the whole system for something a whole lot more efficient. a 11 year old system and builder quality is probably around 10 seer or maybe 11 seer.

If your system is truly 4 to 5 tons then in reality I wouldn't expect more than 10lbs or refrigerant in the system. without the nameplate info the only way to tell is to weigh the recovered charge.

if you do the repair yourself please don't vent the charge or refrigerant. you will have to get a recovery machine and recovery cylinder to recover and weigh the refrigerant you pull out. then you will replace the filter dryer by brazing while purging with nitrogen. then pressure test the system, then pull a good vacuum and then charge with the proper refrigerant and weighed in.

at this point considering the age of the unit and the normal life cycle is considered to be 10-15 years. I would just clean the thing up throw a coat of bomb can paint or wrap it in cork tape and save your money for a replacement unit down the road.

>>1169599
>Do I even bother with this bull?
yeah, just do your research. HVAC is a racket, these guys are community college flunkies. its not like they are mechanical engineers from MIT or some shit and have access to some super secret knowledge that you can't find on the internet and learn in a couple hours.

>>1169620
i was about to say OP, you might be better off running the thing into the ground and replacing it with a couple el-cheapo split units.

>>1169620
Appliance guy here... curious as to your thoughts on 134A and 410 getting phased out in new production in 2021... r600 looks like it's gonna be a bang to work on for anyone who doesn't know what they're doing and gets torch happy....


Op the problem with sealed system work is unless you do it right you can fuck up expensive possibly obsolete parts... there are many creative ways to do this that might appear to work perfectly for months before burning out a compressor...

>>1169599
>the welding shit need
You'll want to solder, not weld
I've done a little bit of HVAC work, and fucked around with some older units. We used acetylene torches to heat and solder fittings.

You have to be careful, it's easy to miss a spot or melt a hole in your lines and then you're fucked.

I'd recommend losing the cocky attitude and doing some serious reading if you really need to do it yourself

>>1169599
You can get tonnage from the compressor model number, as far as filter drier ive seen some rusted to shit and not leak and some new ones leak itall depends, if its not broke dont fuck with it, next thing is you shouldnt need about 4lbs of refrigerant unless he gave u a detailed reason why, low subcool, high superheat, minial temp split, so maybe hes a scamming faggit working on commision, since i read you have a r410 a sysyem, run it till it kicks the bucket and replace it new with a 10 year warrantu when you register your equimpnet

>>1169631
Youll want to braze, not solder, this isnt plumbing rated copper

>>1169635
410 BRAZE IT!

>>1169627
im sure by the time 134 and 410 will get phased out someone will come up with another synthetic blend. as for the propane and butane blends, they kinda scare me. ive read stories of refrigerators exploding in eastern Europe that used the propane based gas. read up on c02 refrigeration if you get bored. that will be fun gauging up to a system running a few thousand PSI

>>1169664
I'm still trying to work out why the fuck an hfc refrigerant like 134a has a gwp of around 1400 while hfo is under 200... that and trying to work out what lokring fittings I'd need so o don't end up dropping a couple hundred on a pile of fittings that will never get used...

I'd think 600 would be unlikely to actually explode, but I could see some idiot debrazing a connection without properly recovering first and getting presurized butane jetting through joint as soon as the braze melts... mini flamethrower for a bit is probably the most likely result..

>>1169599
>It's about 11 years old but still pumps out nice cold air. Problem is the filter-drier outside has been rusted to crap (cosmetic from the looks)

don't fuck with it, it's fine. it sounds like you want to spend a bunch of money for no reason.

clean the fins, straighten them if necessary, check the start/run capacitors($10 replacement if necessary), check the contactor ($10 replacement if necessary). check for metal tube on metal tube contact (vibrations can cause them to wear holes in each other) - just move them apart if touching. any circuit boards should be clean ( no debris / dust / caked on crap)

>>1169599
Get mini splits, they are the best.

>take brass brush to drier case
>scrub off rust
>clean with brake cleaner
>mask and paint with rustoleum
That's all you need OP

>>1169599
>>1169620
Yeah I would say if the condenser is still working and it's just rusty, just maybe sand and paint that bad boy. If you want to diagnose a bad filter drier, take a nice thermometer (2 preferably) and check the temperature difference on the pipe either side of the drier. Make sure you account for differences in the thermometers, and measure off of clean pipe and not any joints. If it's under 2°f it's perfectly fine.

>>1169599
HVAC Pro here. Just leave it alone. Its fine. The filter dryer will last longer than the compressor guaranteed.

Like other anon said, you would need a recovery machine, gauge manifold, recovery cylinder and scale to pull out the old refrigerant, braze in a new dryer, purge and pressure test with nitrogen, vacuum pump and micron gauge to evacuate to 500 micron and recharge by superheat/subcooling.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

>>1169620
already confirmed it was R410a. Just about the only lettering left on the condensor other than the original AC installer's contact (but they went out of business).

>>1169634
>You can get tonnage from the compressor model number
Condenser or compressor? I went and took apart the condenser and found nothing. The Carrier tech that came couldn't find condenser model since AC installers for whole community went and ripped off all the stickered info on install (went and checked other units and asked neighbors). Most homeowners now bought the houses foreclosed, so there's little to no documentation.

>>1169625
>>1169839
>mini-splits
Unless they can somehow go in the attic with ducting to vent out, HOA doesn't allow additional units. It's shit I know.

>>1169631
>reading
HVAC unions literally keep stuff away from consumers. Everything you can find is shit or outdated. Unless you can suggest a book or guide then fuck off.

>>1169791
>>1169855
>>1169882
>>1169934
Pretty much what I thought. I'll do the temp test later and just clean off the filter-drier for now. Thanks.

>>1169955
40$ isn't a check up, that's to knock on your door and tell you you need something fixed. Your filter drier is fine, cosmetics mean nothing. I pay 120$ to get my oil changed, fuck you for complaining about paying someone to fix your central air, something not everyone has the luxury to enjoy.

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>>1169955
>HOA

>>1169998
I pay $20 for my oil change.

>>1170007
You fucked up.

I have an approximately twenty-five year old unit that has had a leak for at least seventeen years. I should probably just buy a new unit huh? Which should I get? Something with the heater all self contained in the unit?

>>1170075
If you got an open floor plan

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Ductless-Air-Conditioner-Wall-Mounted-Air-Conditioners/cat1028.ac?mainCat=&subCat=&trail=1004%3AMidea

>>1169641
Underrated post.

>>1170078
I don't. It's a mobile home with ducting.

>>1170210
Then just get a cheap Goodman unit. Or window up.

>>1170015
Because everyone sucks the same German cock as you do. Fuck you.

>>1169620
>>1169599


If it has a gay sticker on it that carrier called "puron" it is 410A.

Also hvac parts wholesalefag here. If you take the top cover off and look at the actual compressor and give me a number I can get specs. Being that you have a mobile home, I wouldn't imagine you would need anything more than 2.5 to 3 tons unless you have complete shit insulation.

>>1170361
I'm not the guy that said he had a mobile home. It's 1900ft^2 in florida, which is probably why Carrier tech said 4-5 tons. I'll check the compressor again.

>>1170361
Checked condenser, the only large sticker on it has faded to crap. Can only read out "warning" at this point. Other than one or two small parts that had models the only other thing I could find was the GE Fan motor 5KCP39FGS071S.

>>1170275
>I'm a cheap Jew and shit at car maintenance, ergo everyone else is a faggot

>>1170215
I've heard really bad things about Goodman.

>>1169620
>if you do the repair yourself please don't vent the charge or refrigerant.

You do realize that the government sprays R-12 directly on every space shuttle engine during takeoff?

The only reason R-12 was taken off the market is because Dupont lost their patents and they lobbied congress (with millions of course) to change to something else. Which of course has changed several times since then. And will continue to change every so many years because... well you know.

>>1170824
>the government sprays R-12 directly on every space shuttle engine during takeoff?

What is the purpose of the R-12 spray?

>>1169998
>>1170559
>visiting a diy board
>paying someone $120 to loosen and tighten a single bolt and use a funnel
incredible

>>1170867
I guess to keep the liquid hydrogen liquid. I'm not sure i believe him. And the space shuttle doesnt fly anymore anyway.

>>1170907
i dont think anon knows what hes talking about

they did use some chlorinated stuff to make the orange foam for the ext tanks, but had to switch

>>1170959
Even if he did, this "I'm not the only one doing this" isn't a valid excuse.

>>1170907
>I'm not sure i believe him.
Nor do I. That's why I asked the purpose.

>>1170824
>sprays R-12 directly on every space shuttle engine during takeoff

>>NASA
> The main engines burn liquid hydrogen -- the second coldest liquid on Earth at minus 423 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 252.8 degrees Celsius) -- and liquid oxygen. (minus 298 degrees Fahrenheit)

Burning or overheating R-12 produces phosgene gas.

> This colorless gas gained infamy as a chemical weapon during World War I where it was responsible for about 85% of the 100,000 deaths caused by chemical weapons.

>>1170997
You haven't learned to love breathing till you accidentally vent a burned r12 system and the phosgene makes your internal respiratory organs decide to do their best to become external organs...

>>1170901
>>paying someone $120 to loosen and tighten a single bolt and use a funnel

That someone who does the work is frequently clueless and overtorques the drain plug. I change my own oil because I don't trust others to do it.

>>1172716
Here we go boys!

>>1169998
$120 for an oil change?
fuck dude, give me your phone number or email I've got some stuff to sell you.

>>1172893
Maybe guy has an 8L engine

>>1170901
I can do it myself and still do sometimes but mostly what little freetime I have is worth more to me than 120$

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posting here to ask a similar question:

I have a R22 system with a slow leak. I used Superseal last year, which worked to an extent. There is still a slow leak. The system is probably 10-15 years old. At this point I just want to replace it rather than paying a guy to come out once a year to charge the system.

I want to convert to a r410a system while I am at it. Do I simply replace the condenser, lines, and coils with r410a items of equal tonnage and BTU?

Obviously I would vacuum out the r22 and charge the new lines with r410a.

>is it possible?
>what other parts will need to be replaced?
>what compatibility issues might I face with the control board, blower, furnace, etc.
>is there a process to capture and resale the r22?
>where can I look for parts and direction?

Quotes that I have gotten have been as high as 6k, I'm not doing that.

I bestow intense gratitude upon anyone who can point me in the right direction.

>>1169599
That guys trying to fuck you. The only time you need to change the FILTER DRIER, NOT DRIER FILTER YOU HALF WIT is when you open it to the atmosphere. You dont have the skills to braze it right, but if you buy a good thermometer, clamp style you can check the temp on either side of the FILTER DRIER, NOT DRIER FILTER YOU RETARDED PIECE OF HUMAN TRASH WHO SHOULD HANG HIMSELF DUE TO HOPELESS INCOMPETENCE, and if the temp diff is greater than, say 5 degrees f its restricted. If youre feeling fancy you can also get gauges and check superheat and subcooling, but thats more money, and youre obviously too stupid to find a good contractor so like i said before, kill yourself and burn your house down, you waste of space

>>1173927
Calm your autism. You realize that there's 4 instances of filter-drier and only 2 instances of drier-filter in the OP right?

>>1173889
>the condenser, lines, and coils
That's pretty much the a/c system minus the furnace and blower.
The evaporator in your pic is likely the part leaking.
>>1173889
>Quotes that I have gotten have been as high as 6k
It's probably gonna be close to that even with saving the furnace/blower to have it done professionally.

locate the leak and repair it.

you can use the condenser compressor to move and store the R22 while you repair the leak

R22 has gotten so expensive (~$30#) it won't be worth keeping if the leak gets worse.

>>1173889
air conditioning is a luxury if you don't want to pay for it get a window unit and stop being a bitch

>>1174437
>air conditioning is a luxury

Not in the South.

>>1174437
does it get to 115 where you're from? it gets to 115 where I am from. Average day in July is 95.

>>1174001

Thanks for the response. Yeah, the leak is in the coils. I still want to swap it out for a new one, I've tried using some sealers. They work for about 3 months, then there's a new leak.

Can I swap the lines, condenser, and coils without swapping the furnace and blower?

Any good places to look for a new unit?

Is there a market for used r22?

>>1174472
>Can I swap the lines, condenser, and coils without swapping the furnace and blower?

If you can find one that fits or can be fitted to the furnace.

A new a/c package will be higher efficiency than your old one. You should probably spend the rest for a new high-efficiency furnace too.
As a package, the blower will be matched to the new a/c and furnace needs.

You aren't supposed to but you can close the valve on the condenser going to the evaporator coil and let the compressor run until it pumps the R22 into the condenser coil.
Then close the valve coming from the evaporator coil and shut the compressor off (quickly)
This traps almost all the R22 in the condenser coil.
Then cut the lines and install a replacement evaporator coil.
Vacuum the coil and lines down and open the service valves.
Replace the bit of R22 lost and you should be good to go until something else wears out.
A replacement evaporator should be a few hundred dollars.
If you can find a friend willing to do it for you, the labor should be a couple of cases of beer.

>s there a market for used r22?
Yes, you pay to have it taken away.

>>1173889
If you do in fact have an A-coil such as the one in your pic, make sure to get a new one thats the same size to make installation easier and get a tx valve to go with it. you will have to do some sheet metal work to get the coil out and in the plenum. make sure none of the copper is rubbing the sheet metal especially around the holes where the line connections pop out or you will have another leak in a few years.

to do this correctly you will need a recovery machine and tank to pump the r22 into. i have heard that some places in the US pay for clean r22 but i have no idea where you live. you will need new appropriately sized lines to match the connection sizes on the condenser. just get the same tonnage unit if your cooling is sufficient.

you will need to cover your suction line (bigger one) in a closed cell insulation. a common brand is armaflex. the pieces are not split so you have to put them on the lines before you braze them together.

the new condesner will come with a factory charge of r410a stored in it. the manual will tell you how many feet of line the charge is good for. if your line is especially long, you will need to add more r410a by weight to make up for the distance. once the system is sealed you will need to pressure test with nitrogen to make sure there is no leaks. then you will need to evacuate the system down to ~500 micron. then open the valves on the condenser to release the refrigerant into the new line set. wiring should all be identical.

older units typically have no integration to the furnace control board besides an on off signal which is standard 24v and will be the same on the new unit.

if you check the local HVAC-r supplier they usually have bundled deals for all the bits you need.

tools needed: gauge manifold, extre hose, recovery machine, recovery tank, nitrogen tank with regulator, torches with copper brazing rod, tube cutter, reamer, vacuum pump, vacuum gauge, temperature probe
good luck

>>1169793
thats a first

>>1174635
>>1174508

Does it *need* to be the same size, or is it just for ease of installation? I can do ductwork.

Do all condensers come with a factory charge or is it something I have to specify?

Is it worth changing the lines, or should I just flush the existing ones with solvent and call it good?

>>1169599
Check Temperature Differential across the the drier. If it is more than 1K it is restricted and needs replacing, otherwise leave it alone. If you dont understand this you are in over your head. Also, just leave it the fuck alone. If you actually knew what you were doing you could just pump the cunt down, cut out old drier, insert new drier. Pressure test, triple vac and charge. The reason fridgies are the ones who do it is because it's harder than making sweet furniture out of pallets like you fuckin DIY morons think is an amazing show of talent.
Also Freon is R22, not R410A.

To quell your anxiety WRT to the drier rusting out. If it does, you will have to do everything you are considering doing as a preventative maintenance action as a reactive maintenance action so just leave it alone.

Source: Actual experience

>>1169635
copper to copper - solder
copper to brass - braze
just FYI

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>>1176675
>copper to copper - solder
>copper to brass - braze

The difference between brazing and soldering is the filler material and the temperatures involved - not the materials joined.

Just FYI

>>1176701
This is the problem with you internet DIY guys. You can copy and paste something from Wiki that's full of jargon and technical lingo that you don't understand but you somehow think it proves a point.
You'd probably burn yourself with any oxy torch kid, give it a rest.

>>1176721
HVAC pro here. hes right.

>>1176675

Oxygen-acetylene and brazing rod is brazing.

Mapp gas and solder is soldering.

>>1176739
Wrong.

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>>1176721
You aren't special beyond being a special kind of asshole.

Are there any suitable drop-in replacement refrigerants for an R-22 system? I did a bunch of work on my old R-12 car and there were a lot of replacements, but it looks like there are different laws about hydrocarbon refrigerants in residential units.

I'm renting a place that has an R-22 central unit that's leaking somewhere. Had it recharged a year and a half ago when it quit and it lasted long enough to be worthwhile. I'd rather not waste money putting more R-22 in it though. Not really worried about using a substitute refrigerant since the only other option is complete system replacement, but that's unfortunately not my decision to make.

>>1169599
Test prices with multiple vendors, choose the cheapest vendor that isn't just going to tape it up to "fix it". If you're confident enough to do it, go ahead, but as an installer I'd just wait for the next big problem and replace the system with a more efficient one (some states have great rebates)

I'm skeptical it's 410a, since most systems that old is r-22 which is incredibly expensive (and will continue to climb bigly). Switching to a 410a system will save a lot on its own each year

>>1177368
NU-22 works fine.
It's flammable but EU has used flammable refrigerants for years.

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>>1177368
>>1177425
I should have said NU-22B

>>1175089
It needs to be the same size, evaporator needs to be the same size condenser needs to be the same size piston and txv need to be the same

>>1169599
Hvac tech here. If you really believe that you can handle this here is what you need:
Recovery tank
Vacuum pump
Micron guage
40 pound bottle dry nitrogen
Filter drier
410a
Manifold set
Thermocouple
Might as well change out both Schrader cores
Braze supplies
Step one: use your vacuum pump to pull a vacuum on your recovery tank. You should evacuate to 500 microns
Step two: now that the oil is nice and warm on your vacuum pump, change the oil.
Step 3: hook up your manifold set to the unit. If you can't figure out which is the high side and low side, kill your self.
Step 4: hook your yellow hose to the recovery machine. Don't open the manifolds yet.
Step 5: hook another hose from the outlet of the recovery machine to the recovery tank. Doesn't really matter whether you pick the high side or low side on the tank for this part. Don't open the valves on the recovery tank yet. If you do, just kill yourself.
Step 6: open the valves on your manifolds. Unscrew the hose on your recovery tank a couple threads and purge out the air until pure refrigerant comes out. Should take a couple seconds.
Step 7: open the valve on the tank. The vacuum inside will suck a couple pounds out of the system. Once the pressures stabilize, you are ready to turn on your recovery machine. Run it to zero psi. Do not pull a vacuum with the recovery machine unless you want it dead. Close all valves prior to shutting down recovery machine.
Step 8: now you are ready to braze. Make sure you purge with nitrogen while brazing.
Step 9: charge up to 200 psi with dry nitrogen. Preform a leak test. Make sure it holds for at least 30 minutes. Release nitrogen to atmosphere.
Step 10: evacuate unit to 500 microns. Takes about 30 minutes.
Step 11: charge the refrigerant into the system as a liquid. It is clearly marked on your recovery tank.
Step 12: charge to appropriate superheat if you have a fixed orifice metering device or charge to appropriate subcooling if you have a txv. Kill yourself if confused

Test