CO2 Laser Cutter CNC Thread

TL;DR: I want a 2 axis laser cutter CNC to cut cardboards and thin wood/plywood. (How original! :kappa:). Already confident with motors/linear motion/electronics problematic. I read that what I need is a C02 laser tube.

Here are my questions:

*I have no idea how to determine what the power should be, but I guess I can't take a too powerful one since all i have to do is run it on lower power.

*Is there any good build log/guide/tutorial available to understand the basics of CO2 lasers, the safety ofc (again i'm so scared of lazors), and most importantly how to assemble precisely and effectively the mirrors/lens, etc?

*(Ok, Maybe I should have asked this one first) do I really Need CO2 Tube? I feel like a classical laser diode would be so much cheaper and safer regarding the overall build, but I guess 20W or 40W laser diodes don't exist. :/

(Also, pic is what i'd like, a laser diode machine, not a CO2 laser tube one.)

>>1166158
Student don't usually own a machine because 1. expensive 2. lots of time to set up properly, if you think your model will outweigh the cons then do it but 99.999% it is not worth the time unless your design is also amazing.

Power level are often achieved by trial and error which is part of the set up process. You put different stuff to test the levels.

Safety is not an issue if you buy the machine, it comes with cover. Wear a goggle if you are too scared.

Lens I don't know, if it is a focus thing then it is usually just turning a knob, or setting distances.

If CO2 tube is what people use then yeah. I mean, you are not reinventing the wheel here, just buy a machine and read the instructions.

As architecture student I don't imagine you have nearly enough time for all this dicking around but that is another topic.

If you really spend the time and money, people who did this usually also run a small business and sell your service to other students to make the most out of it. Your own project is not going to have enough jobs for the machine.

Get together with other students, set up a fablab and finance it with providing a service for even more students (Look up Fablabs).
Alternatively, get together with other students and convince your faculty to invest in a University workshop for students. Actually, I'm surprised that you don't have that yet.

>>1166177
I guess ur right. But what I failed to mention is:
1- I have access to steppers and drivers, and i want to make a cool project out of it, (and why not a project that could help me build other stuff?) i was thinking primarily of a CNC router, but the motors are just too weak to handle a spindle.
2-Yeah u're right I don't really have time but I was planning doing that on 2 month summer break. (An Internship during Summer break, which could help me earn enough money to build it)
I like coming to this board cause people always somehow offer valuable insight. Honestly I appreciate all those frank answers.
Still, don't you guys think there's room for a hobby CNC laser machine? Or is it something I should really forget even as part of a hobby?
>>1166180
Yeah i realize that, and I might offer my services to people, or sell decorative shit on ebay, idk. Even if I don't, idc spending a few hundred bucks on something that can keep me entertained for a few months and let me learn things.
>>1166186
We have a model shop with A LOT of tools and two laser cutters, which are actually really cool and i used them a few times. But due to management issues from the workshop staff, we can rarely use them. Even when we can, we have to wait like two weeks before having a slot on the planning. Then, there's the fact we don't ever get to control, maintain or even understand the machine - we give cardboards, .dxf files, a few instructions, and we wait.
I'm not bitching about them, these guys are really friendly, but, you know, two machines used by 800+ students :/
About fablabs, I don't even think people would like to get involved in that. We are in Paris, France, and the rents are so high even a 4sqm cabin on the sidewalk is financially a no-no.
You guys are pretty much all right, It's really not worth the investment considering model making, especially considering I graduate next year.
But then, what should i do with those steppers/motors?
Btw sorry for the shitty english

>>1166158
If you want to cut cardboard and thin wood, just get a regular 5W chink laser module with a driver. It'll cost you about $80. The only difference is that it takes somewhat longer to cut material with the lower power lasers, but again, for cardboard and thin wood, you'll be fine with the 5W laser. Check some youtube videos if you want to see how fast they work.

Also, everything you want to do has been done, to the point that completely ready-made solutions exist. You can get CNC shields for arduino where you just plug in the DRV8825s and the stepper wires and you're good to go. Same goes for software.

>>1166212
Looks like you want to build your own machine rather than buying one, which is even more work and a lot more dicking around and I guarantee you it will take at least twice longer than you expect even with worst expectations... you don't know what you don't know.

Also to make architectural models you probably need at least an A1 sized cutting bed so you can make longer components, any smaller and it will just be not worth the effort.

The machine will also need fume extraction which is a project in itself and maybe a health and safety issue if you set up in your bedroom.

But all that said, if that is what you want to do then go for it. Part of being an architecture student is learning to ignore other people and doing what you want to do. You don't know what you will end up with if you don't at least try. It will be a good learning process. Good luck.

>>1166230
I don't think OP necessarily needs to go up to A1. A2+ seems to suffice for most things. My school has three machines with a 720x420 bed size and they were fine. Hell an A3 one would still be useful, wouldn't go any smaller than though.

>>1166250
oh also you could design so you can swap out the laser for a pen and use it as an old school plotter.

>>1166250
Ur right, A3 is already useful enough, I was thinking A2 though.>>1166213
>>1166213
Thanks for the advice. Just went to chinese exports sites like aliexpress etc to check and didn't found any, but i'l keep searching for that

>>1166253
Yeah, I Wanted to design a way to replace it with other tools? Maybe a 3d Printing head? But that will most likely be a later upgrade.

>>1166230
Thank you, I appreciate your advices, as I am still trying to figure if this can reasonably be done. But I go step by step with this project. I even keep a journal of every pros/cons, and keep track of design ideas or things like infos on electronic parts :D

>>1166264
I remembered the numbers wrong, you can get 3W lasers around that $100, but it seems you can get up to 15W in regular lasers for a bit more
http://www.banggood.com/445-450nm-15W-Blue-Laser-Module-Mark-On-Metal-for-DIY-Laser-Engraver-Machine-p-1137779.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/450nm-3000mW-Blue-Buner-Laser-Module-3W-Blue-Laser-Bunner-Engrave-laser-TTL-/262895640135

http://www.banggood.com/445nm-2_5W-2500mW-Blue-Laser-Module-With-Heatsink-For-DIY-Laser-Cutter-Engraver-p-993521.html

>>1166271
Thanks for that. Now i need to figure if those aren't too expensive. CO2 seems to be harder to setup, but so much cheaper for the same power. I hope this.

Also, someone on reddit recommended buying a K40 (some standard CO2 tube 40W laser cutter) and mod it (remove shitty lenses/mirror). But i don't like it. Too small. 12*8 inch, which is 30cm by 20 is really too small. I want something that can handle A3 minimum

>>1166298
Wtf dunno why i wrote "i hope this...", tired, drunk, and mad at the election results maybe ;D

>>1164294
Hijacking OPs thread, I wanna build my own laser cutter, as I was doing research I had a couple questions.
1) I've seen alot of the tubes have liquid cooling ports on them, how neccisary is this? Unscented seen it before on some of the laser cutters I've seen, but I haven't seen many and perhaps I wasn't looking in the right places.
2) I've also never seen a laser cutter that uses the h-belt setup before, only 3D printers. All examples of laser cutters I've seen so far are regular Cartesian. Is there a reason? H seems like a much nicer setup conceptually, but Idk if the belts act funny over the larger distances.
3) I was thinking of using the smoothie board with the appropriate fusion360 post processor so I can give it g code rather than dxf, because I want better control over the ordering and things like lead in and such. Good idea/bad idea?
4) I was also thinking of using dual 4 amp nema 23 motors for the y and one for the x, so I'll probably need to use external drivers with the smoothie. Thoughts?
5) what sort of peripherals would I be looking at for the laser itself, just a small airpump for the lens, and maybe #1? What about general ventilation?

>>1166662
Feel free to do so, those questions are relevant to me too. About the liquid cooling ports, i've seen them too, but on high powered co2 tubes. Looks like a 10 to 40 watt doesnt really need them. But that's pure guessing, which is basically worthless when it comes to deathbringinglazors.

In general, I am looking for informations on the math required to check all those kind of aspects, about optics, thermal behavior, motor power/speed, ventilation, etc...

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Laser-Cutter-Machine-3020-2030-portable-Laser-Engraver-For-Plywood-Wood-Leather-Acrylic-No-tax-to/32806635851.html?spm=2114.06010108.3.48.muQxVi&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10065_10151_10068_10136_10137_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10177_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10181_5110012_10078_10079_10073_10070_10123_10124,searchweb201603_9,ppcSwitch_5&btsid=cbe14b04-af88-4c34-ba30-fc6f22ebef93&algo_expid=60c4fb5e-8028-4000-800f-2efacfcc89aa-9&algo_pvid=60c4fb5e-8028-4000-800f-2efacfcc89aa

you will not have anything cheaper

>>1166662
Dunno who I'm quoting, ignore plz

>>1166668
>Tfw so close to quints
Y but those are small, and not diy

>>1166662
Also, are proper linear bearings necessary for a DIY lasercutter? I found some that are long enough for my purposes for about $75 each (2000mm long), and I'm going to need four. Is it worth the money?

>>1166691
>>1166797
i dont find the point of making one if you can buy it assembled, im sure it will be even more expensive to build a similar one, the laser tube and its power supply are like 200$ alone.
netherless, if you go for a diy one, it will absolutely recquire a complete casing, co2 laser are dangerous devices, don't be cheap, your retina is a precious thing

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>>1166797
i would said no, there is no cutting stress of the struture so i guess something like pic related would be enought
google "homemade bearing rail" there is a lot of examples

>>1166159
>>1166158
Bro you can get prefabricated tubes that have mirrors aligned (or alignable on the fixture) and shit.
In fact the CO2 laser tube is the easy part. Having the means to focus it properly (you can't see CO2 lasers), and having to power it are more challenging

>>1166813
I want a large bed, which is why I'm planning on building it custom. I want to be able to feed it raw 5'x5' panels that woodworkers source sells

Laser cutters are about as complex to build as a 3d printer, the primary difference is that the parts are more expensive because they are larger.

http://buildlog.net/ is the traditional source for DIY laser building. Light-object is a chinese supplier that sells the parts you will need, or you can get them off ebay.

The other option is to buy a Chinese k40 laser for a couple hundred bucks and repair/upgrade whatever doesn't work on arrival. You get a complete laser cutter basically for the cost of a tube, but its very low quality as delivered.

You can do a really nice build for like 2-4k but you just give up too many features if you go much below that price point. You want air assist and venting even if you are just cutting paper.

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>>1167395
For reference I did this laser build six years ago.

>>1166158
You are right my friend co2 lasers looks like a pain in the ass, I got a 2500w laser they are very easy to use, but I am only engraving shit, maybe in the future I will get a Co2 laser, but right now I think that is just matter of time when they make 20w diode lasers with a good cooling system, they will be able to beat the co2 ones, just because they will be more easy to use and also they last 10 times more, the other way is to buy a CNC but not the shapeoko o xcarve ones, those are too expensive, you have to build your own and it will be 3 times cheaper and bigger,
there are right now 15w diode lasers, but they are as expensive like 300 bucks or something and they get hot in less than 10 minutes, so you have to pause the work and let it cool.
right now the 2.5w laser I got is working 24 hours I just programed the engraving software to stop every 8 minutes and start again 4 minutes later, that way I am engraving shit like if is an industrial laser, if they say that the diode last 10,000 hours then I have like 1 or 2 years of work with the laser instead of 3 months with the co2 laser, co2 must die in favor of laser diodes

>>1167451
yeah that's what i thought.
I assume u meant u got a 2500 mW laser and not 2500W :D
So with 2.5W u can only engrave right?

>>1166158
Yeah, gas lasers are a pain the ass. I'm going to work on a CO2 laser myself (though not for CNC). Personally, I think the laser is too unwieldy to move around if you need >30W, though you could drop the size of the vacuum pump if your tube was sufficiently small and you had very good cooling. I think it's literally better for a DIY CO2 laser system to be run like a mill and move the carridge rather than moving the tool. Another solution is to use gold plated mirrors (like in most engravers) to reflect the infrared into the tool tip, but this requires painstaking calibration and you'll hit the diffraction limit easier (usually not a problem though). Most tubes are >600mm so quite big for the job.

>>1167401
what's the structural material called?

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>>1167401

>>1168327
I will admit I have a soft spot for tiny adorable tools. We should make a thread for that sort of thing, now that I think about it.

>>1168326
Its aluminium extrusion. Misumi series 5 to be precise.

>>1166662
>Hijacking OPs thread, I wanna build my own laser cutter, as I was doing research I had a couple questions.
>1) I've seen alot of the tubes have liquid cooling ports on them, how neccisary is this?
Absolutely necessary. The tube will crack in a second or two without active cooling.
>2) I've also never seen a laser cutter that uses the h-belt setup before, only 3D printers. All examples of laser cutters I've seen so far are regular Cartesian. Is there a reason? H seems like a much nicer setup conceptually, but Idk if the belts act funny over the larger distances.
it's more complicated and more finicky.
>3) I was thinking of using the smoothie board with the appropriate fusion360 post processor so I can give it g code rather than dxf, because I want better control over the ordering and things like lead in and such. Good idea/bad idea?
Good idea.
>4) I was also thinking of using dual 4 amp nema 23 motors for the y and one for the x, so I'll probably need to use external drivers with the smoothie. Thoughts?
You don't need anywhere near that power. You're moving a two ounce head, not an entire extruder.
>5) what sort of peripherals would I be looking at for the laser itself, just a small airpump for the lens, and maybe #1? What about general ventilation?
water cooling setup, air pump for lenses, ventilation for cutting area. That's absolute minimum. There are all sorts of other things you can do as well.

>>1168248
>only
yea I did a mistake is a 2.5w

For low power operations you can find decent used folding mirrors from industrial 2-6k CO2 lasers that will still work fine in 50w applications. And because of their size cooling will not be an issue. You might be able to get them real cheap too since they cant be used any more in the real laser and are only worth their weight in copper.

>>1169460
Where would one start looking?

>>1168587
What type of air pump would be ideal for a laser cutter?

>>1169483
http://xiphmont.livejournal.com/72022.html

>>1169510
looks like it's two of these buggers bolted together: http://www.ebay.com/itm/728450-1-to-18W-Single-Outlet-Commercial-Air-Pump-793-GPH-/122465778328

>>1169481
Ebay?

>>1166158
I work with Nd:YAG lasers (cleaning). Lasers are over rated shitware, expensive, needs constant servicing, slow, must have stabilised power supply all the time...

>>1171675
Lasers are great, and you're a kike