trying to change my own oil on my truck ('03 S10 if it matters)

and before anyone asks, yes, I have triple checked that I am turning it the right direction

sage

>>1131042
>I started with a box end wrench and managed to nicely round the plug over without it budging at all
You used an SAE on a metric bolt or reverse didn't you? Don't do that.

First things first, buy a new bolt because you will get the old one out and not be able to go anywhere.

Second. Buy a helicoil set for whatever the next size up from the drain plug is. You may or may not need it so keep the receipt.

Having found the size of the bolt (hopefully) Figure out the inner diameter of the threads. There's charts for it. Figure out the next size down with an OD at least .050" smaller

Buy a drill and a LEFT handed tap for it, hope you've got a good drill. Buy new bolt for said tap. Don't get a fine thread, like 32TPI. Get something in the teens.

Drill and tap the old bolt, put new one in and start turning. This will either break the old bolt free and make it start turning or it'll shatter and you can just start digging the bits out. Don't buy a cheap bolt for the smaller one, get something good so it doesn't shatter instead. After it's all cleaned out, check with new bolt. If it looks good return the helicoil set. If not, helicoil the bitch.

>>1131047
nah
15mm head size on the drain plug which is what I used
unless Merlin put the wrong drain plug in it when I had the oil changed last (not impossible)

I already have a new drain plug

drilling and tapping a new bolt into the old one is a bit beyond my skill level
have any ideas that are a bit less escalation to try first?
also, what is helicoil?

>>1131052
>drilling and tapping a new bolt into the old one is a bit beyond my skill level
>have any ideas that are a bit less escalation to try first?
>also, what is helicoil?
Jesus son, take it to the mechanic's then. If you have a good file, I guess you could try putting two flats on the bolt. But the more you fuck with it the harder the mechanic will have to work to fix it.

>>1131042
Knipex cobras would take it right off

>>1131063
Also I guess if you cant find the knipex locally, rhombus shaped jaw Irwin Groovelock knockoffs would work.

Yes the groovelocks and cobras work way better than vice grips. No, tongue and grooves are not the same thing

see this every few months or so (Plant repairs)

>knock on a 6 point socket, tight fit

if this fails

>weld on a nut, heat usually frees it, and you turn off the nut you just welded on

>sometimes drill with LH drillbit and it'll spin out or you can tap it or use an easyout

>or drill out to 7/8 of internal thread size and file one side almost away, then collapse the remaining steel

a real pain in the arse in most cases, but thats life.

Buy some six point sockets before you do this again OP please.

>>1131071
I already told him to drill and tap but he won't do it. If he doesn't think he can, there's no way he's doing those others you mentioned.

Get better vice grips and a breaker bar. You should never have a problem with contact using a good pair of vice grips

>>1131071
>knock on 6 point socket
so, what, get a cheap socket one size down and just hammer thenfucker on there?
that deal with rounded/chowdered fitting, but doesn't help with the plug being stuck

if I go that route, do I just try to get more leverage and apply penetrating oil?

>>1131075
well, you're not wrong
I'm a comp sci major, not a tradesman, so a lot of those methods are over my head

>>1131080
>doesn't help with the plug being stuck
Keep soaking it in oil. Use a breaker bar for the knocked on socket. They're cheap enough at pawn shops. You can use a ratchet and a pipe over the handle but you might break the ratchet. Also heat the bolt with a torch if you got one.

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>>1131080
depending on how badly chewed up it is, it can work.

Your standard 12 point sockets are more inclined to 'slip' on tight or damaged heads.

A good six point socket might work for you.

If you are finding them expensive to buy, 'Impact sockets' are generally 6 point in most cases. But do not use an impact driver,

I'm not in the US, but I imagine Harbor Freight will have reasonably OK impact sockets, They are generally black or dark grey in color.

Soak it in ATF/ Acetone mix or PB Blaster.

Put your glasses on. Try a socket, and get one that is a little too tight, just a little. Line it up as close as you can, gently tap it on, very gently.

Make sure you cover as much of the head as you can.

Try to gently loosen it with firm pressure and no jerky movements

80 percent of the time it works for me.

OP don't you have a dad or some other man in your family that you can take it to?

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>>1131042
Dont drill holes in your oil pan without trying the easy way.

Fucking newbies.

>>1131071
>Buy some six point sockets before you do this again OP please.

The idea that 6 points dont round off and 12 points do is an illusion

>>1131111
that's not really /diy/ then, is it?
and no, nearest family is 200 miles away

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>>1131114
That is retarded tier.

I have had 25 years on spanners and socketry.

Six point, which fit correctly are far, far superior to 12 point.

>>1131114

A properly fitting 6 point is going to have twice the surface contact area as a 12 point though

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>>1131127
>I have had 25 years on spanners and socketry.

If you were such an authority on the topic, why would you post an obviously misleading picture that has no bearing on actual usage?

>>1131134
No it doesnt, they both drive the flanks in the same general area.

Instead of continuing to spread these wives tails, why dont you look for actual testing?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59707&showall=1

>>1131143
Heres another
Youll find that every modern wrench is gripping in the same area regardless of 12 point of 6 point.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57071


If it were an actual issue, 6 points would be more popular. In actual real world usage they are effectively the same

>>1131143
Not that guy but the only thing 'misleading' about it is implying everyone will have a well fitted socket and a standard sized bolthead/nut. In a perfect world where both are the case, a 6 point is going to fair better than a 12 point, more so if you're using them with an impact wrench anyway.

I've always stuck to 6 point sockets where possible.

>>1131148
Did you even look at the link to the contact points where both 6 and 12 points are almost identical?

How would it fare better at all? If its going to round off, its going to round off

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>>1131112
I was going to post exactly this. The Irwin set is pretty decent. Failing that I'd try a pipe wrench if you can get it in. Another option might be pic related but they aren't great. Just another option.

Could always try a hammer and narrow point chisel but that's not for the faint of heart.

>>1131150
I did and I specifically said in terms of an impact wrench. That forum might be a better dwelling for you if your sole intention is to get uppity when people don't side with you. Go and sniff fap-off sockets with your nut cracking buddy there.

>>1131150
I find it hard to believe you have ever used sockets.

A good fitting six point is better than a good fitting 12 point.

I must have tightened and loosened tens and tens of thousands of bolts. Rusty. New. Stainless. Galled. Brass. LH RH . Whitworth. BA. Metric SAE the fucking lot

Six point is better no matter what any shitty diagram (showing a piss poor six point fit btw) tries to prove.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is an armchair mechanic and/or inexperienced.

>>1131155
>I did and I specifically said in terms of an impact wrench

Do they even make 12 point impact sockets?
Regardless, you didnt explain. Saying "in terms of an impact wrench" doesnt really mean much.

If they are contacting at the same points, why does it matter if its an impact.
Throwing personal insults doesnt mean you dont have to explain yourself.

>>1131158
Is there a "Fudd" like term for mechanics?
Youd fall into it.

>>1131161
The fact you even had to ask says a lot. I'm not insulting you I'm just pointing out you're uppity for no reason other than I don't agree with you.

If you prefer 12pt sockets, good for you. I don't.

>>1131161
I think it's still just fudd

>>1131161
Yes 12 point sockets are for 12 point nuts generally.

You know nothing .

aside from 12-point bolt heads, name one instance where 12 point sockets are a better choice than 6 point sockets.

>>1131169
when you only have enough room for 1/12th of a turn and not enough for 1/6th

>>1131170

sounds like one would need a ratchet with more teeth

>>1131163
>I'm not insulting you I'm just pointing out you're uppity for no reason other than I don't agree with you.

How am I getting uppity?
I posted emperical evidence showing that both styles of sockets hit at the exact same points.

I dont understand how one could work differently than the other.
You are the one throwing personal insults and trying to draw lines in the sand.

Give us your knowledge on what looks to be something cut and dried.

>>1131173

12pt are generally made up of less material for one so super excessive force and wear out much quicker. It happens if you use them enough to see it so 6 point on that basis are more cost effective.

I could count one one hand the times I've needed to fasten a bi-hex bolt so the chances for many are probably non existent and those who would find themselves up against the possibility normally have the option of a properly manufacturers to purposes socket or driver for their fixing.

Especially when using things like impact wrenches which is more common than nor for a lot of mechanics or other trades for that is much higher now so the chances of stripping bolt heads or nuts especially when they're made of softer mild steel through 'bumping' or 'slipping' is greatly increased due to the lower surface area of a bi-hex socket.

This is why I prefer and many others prefer 6pt over 12pt. They're better for me because I have to use them all day every day and this is my experience.

As for insults. Again. No. That's not an insult, it's an observation. You're arrogant and I firmly believe it's questionable that you had to ask. Again though, what ever works for you works for you. I'm not particularly bothered.

>>1131173
LOL. Testing brand new nuts in wrenches is a world away from the reality of getting old, stuck nuts and bolts out.

Six point is the way, it is and will be forever.

I'm going to leave this thread as I can't be bothered anymore, if you want to use 12 point go ahead.

>>1131175
>im right because I say im right, im leaving and not going to keep responding

Thats one way to do it I guess

>>1131174
>is greatly increased due to the lower surface area of a bi-hex socket.

But from what I can tell, they both have the same usable surface area.
One a bolt has slipped past into the surface area that is gone in the 12 point socket, the bolt is already going to be rounded.

>>1131177
>One a bolt has slipped past into the surface area that is gone in the 12 point socket, the bolt is already going to be rounded.

So what the fuck does it matter? It doesn't.

>>1131178
>So what the fuck does it matter? It doesn't.

Thats kind of the conclusion I came to
Im not the one advocating for OP to buy 6 point sockets as if it would have mattered.

>>1131042

Do you have a fuckoff big pair of multigrips?

That should give you enough grip and leverage

>>1131185
yeah, I tried them
I tried using locking vice grips (with that rhombus shape another anon mentioned)
I tried using the socket from another wrench for more leverage and
I tried hitting shit with hammers

I'm just about fucking done fucking with it
if I can't get it off tomorrow I'm just gonna take it into a shop

>>1131180
I didn't advocate anything. This is what I suggest OP buy:
>>1131154

I said I prefer 6pt in reference to your comment and you even gave reference to an article where there was a comparison between 6 & 12 on new nuts, not old rusted or stripped, here:>>1131147

You then asked me why I prefer one to the other and replied here:>>1131174


You can find the definition of a strawman here: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

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>>1131189
I'm not sure if you have one in any socketry sets to hand or if it's something you want to try but if you can grind a slot in the centre of the bolt head as a last resort and try pic related. Not ideal and you have to be careful not to take away so much material that it leaves the bolt head too weak to cope.

That's 1/2" drive flat blade

>>1131189
>>1131192
to be clear, at this point, it seems to be a problem of leverage/torque rather than grip
the locking vice grips I have lock very firmly on the nut and haven't slipped yet, but I can't budge the nut

using a pipe or other jury-rigged extra long lever arm isn't really an option as I'm trying to work under the truck and I have very little room
even putting the truck up on jack stands wont give me a whole ton of room to play with pipes/cheater bars

>>1131194
Would an 1/2" extension bar not get you out into the open?

>>1131080
Dude there's youtube videos of literally all of these techniques.

Personally, I'd mix up a 50:50 jar of ATF and acetone (magic bolt loosener juice) then drip it into the tiny gap to let it creep into the threads. Get it good and in there.

Then clean off the bolt head after its worked its way in for a while and get a big ol mole grip or pliers or whatever and yank the shit out of it to the left

>>1131189
Last thing to try is heating it with a lighter or gas torch

Obviously be careful if you've used any of the aforementioned chemicals

>>1131194
Oh last last option: could you get your locking grips/socket onto the nut, then stick the car jack under the lever and lift? That way you'll get a fuck ton of force on the wrenching implement

>>1131199
>drip something up into the drain plug threads
Unless he flips his truck over, that's going to have a very limited effectiveness because of gravity. I agree about the youtube videos, though. You'd think a CS major could figure out how to watch a video, but it's really a generational thing, I think. I remember having to use a Chilton's or Haynes manual for everything automotive back in the day. Now that there's youtube, I use it for just about everything I've never done before, and it's only failed me a few times (mainly for some obscure, esoteric shit I'm trying to do with more modern programming languages).

>>1131042
This is why I always do my own oil changes. Once you get that fucker off, remember that this is the real lesson the universe is trying to teach you. This lesson applies to all routine vehicle maintenance.

>>1131199
>>1131205
it's not that I can't watch youtube videos, it's that I have no practice with these techniques and, without background knowledge, youtube is a poor replacement for a good teacher
plus, it's not like I have a welder or taps just laying around
I don't even have a good drill

>>1131204
that sounds... vaguely dangerous
I can't identify where it might actually be dangerous, but using lifting gear for non-lifting applications, I don't know
it also sounds like it might work

>>1131212
yeah, no fucking shit
if I can't get the fucker off and do end up taking it in, I'm gonna be sure to tell them not to overtighten it like Merlin did so I can at least do it myself next time

one more try tomorrow I think before I let someone with more experience deal with it

>>1131205
I agree but it's worth a shot. I've found it works pretty well as long as there's a bit of a pathway for it (through capillary action or some shit maybe) and that was on two vertical bolts on the underside of my boat.

Then again it was only once so I dunno.

YouTube is a Fuckin savior. I can't get over how many videos there are of obscure issues with cars. I haven't paid for a mechanic in years!

Come to think of it, I haven't even looked in a Haynes manual for a while! Though man they were great. I remember finding out a car I'd just bought had no Haynes manual. Fucking gutted.

>>1131214
Honestly mate give it a go. Just mirror everything they do, what's the worst that could happen. Feels super rewarding when shit works from jury rigged gear.

Think about that jacking method though, think long and hard. There's a lot of force acting upwards and a lot of weight acting downwards - if the bite of the bolt doesn't break, and the head doesn't smush, I'd guess there's an outside chance you'll wreck your oil pan. Don't go lifting the car up by the oil pan that's for sure!

Go for it and report back

>>1131214
If a professional does it, ask him to hand tighten it, and use a new washer. Supply him with the new washer. He'll probably get it off in under 20 minutes.

By the way, have you replaced your O2 sensors in recent memory? If you think a stuck oil drain plug is a bitch...

Good luck, dude. Let the penetrating oil sit on there for another night.

>>1131220
I have not replaced my O2 sensors, but I can imagine
and I'll be sure to have the mechanic hand tighten
thanks

>>1131143

lolwut? did you even read what you posted? the 6 point metrinch owned all the other configurations. way to destroy your own argument.

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>>1131042
look for a set of pic related. i've found they work great with an impact if you have one.

>>1131216
I love youtube mechanic videos, too. Especially the amateur ones. The manuals are great for theoretical mechanics with the exploded diagrams and whatnot, but the amateur videos are where you see all the real world problems people run into and how they deal with them. It's funny how if you have a fairly popular vehicle, there are at least 5 different videos of people working on the exact same thing.

>>1131222
We've moved on dude, don't kill the t h r e a d

I fix the same thing to my first car, I took it to a mechanic. I'm mechanically inclined but if I knew they would have parts, tools, and lift to mange job super quick and easy. After this I learned there is no real savings to changing your own oil these days, for a little more than the price of filter and oil they top off fluids grease points and do a general inspection of your car. You really don't gain anything besides the chance of fucking up the drain plug

>>1131228
>You really don't gain anything besides the chance of fucking up the drain plug
that's exactly why i DONT take mine to oil change places anymore

they use those fucking pneumatic drills on my drain plug and stripped it in 2 vehicles

>>1131228
with my truck it's actually cheaper to get the dealer to do it. $70 for 8L full synthetic, filter, top off all fluids, tire rotation and general inspection. it'd cost me about $120 to do the oil myself and rotating the tires is just a pain in the ass without a lift.

dealer tries to rape me on diff and tcase fluid though($800) so i do that shit myself along with pretty much everything else

>>1131231
NEVER use those quick lube places. they exist solely to fuck people and are staffed but high school drops outs that don't know a single fucking thing about vehicles

>>1131225
Any Toyota Corolla model will be found for the exact year, or at least it would seem that way.

>>1131238
Anon, where do you live that the oil and filters would cost $120?

I can get 2 5Qt (~5L) jugs of full synthetic for about $22 each at Walmart, and the filters for ~15 each. That's if I go for more oil than I need and primo filters.

The rest of the fluids are peanuts, especially if it's a GM product. Even most Toyota trucks will take generic fluids for coolant and power steering.

>>1131231
I've heard of them using threadlock in addition to overtigjtening, when the customer is extra jew-y.

>>1131243
i'm a leaf, we get fucked hard on just about everything then the government comes in with a bigger cock to make sure it really hurts.

since you used Walmart i'll do the same. a 5L jug of full synthetic from any major brand is about $50. the filter i'm not too sure but it's likely $15 or no more then $20. assuming the filter is $20 then you have $120. now sales tax is 13% adding $15.6 for a grand total of $135.6. truck only holds 8L so i guess i'd have 2L left over which i'd likely use on something else since i'm on a farm and there's no shortages of uses for oil

i do often see oils on sale for around $30 but again 2 jugs plus the filter would still be more then just paying the dealer $70

>>1131249
I knew Canada was home of the government niggerdick, but goddamn.

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get your self one of this make sure you get it TIGHT
make sure there is no loose grip and twist
i would get a new drain plug screw for it first so you can replace

or what i do at work
sometimes customer dont have there locks for their wheels
i look at the lock visually measure a 19 mm socket will fit real nice and snug
JAMM IN A 18MM socket in there and turn it lol
but still i would go with the pliers

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>>1131278
we currently pay about 25% for everything just for our currency being shit then there's the sales tax which varies by province but here in Ontario it's 13%. on things like oil, electronics, tires, batteries ect there's a environmental/disposal tax which may or may not be a hidden tax depending on the item

here's a pic of the extra taxes you'd pay just on every day electronics. keep in mind sales tax is also applied on top of those fees. government loves to tax tax here and most of it is all hidden

>>1131224
I already...

Fuck's sake op. In order of cost asuming no halp and any half retarded parts store.


Fucking 6 point socket and round it off more.

Then get a fucking new plug ordered and ger a grider and make a 4 sided bolt.

Abovebof the bit i posted. Be sure and beat it on tight and hold shit straight and not be micheal j. foxandshake.

Then sack up and drill it out. But get the reverse thread easy outs and not the hammer in. Bearing on your oil pan and poking shit in it and then beating easy outs be retarded...

Try a few sizes till u get near threads or snap a few off.

Then weld a nut or 2.

Redrill if u fill in the nuthole. Kek.

If nuts stay try random shit from above.
Far before u get through half shit shit for the first time u will be done. And a buddy or real man will make u feel like a bitch.


Dont feel bad. Learn. Me and my best friend spent 3 days drilling and putting ball joints in and then he shot himself the next day. Meanwhile i never had more fun. Take your time. Get another sgit car or 2 so u never go without. Litterally drive 6 cars ona daily. Started 3 today before bootlegging number 4. 2 batteries and a short. 6 cars in theory will start tomorrow. Albiet i bought a new and used battery today.

>>1131287
are people really still using those shitty wheel locks? jam a socket on mine and you'll spend the next few hours trying to cut the fucking thing off

>>1131249
Am I missing something? Looked up 03 s10 and either engine lists 4.5 quarts motor oil which is still only like 4.25 liters

>>1131326
I'm OP that guy is not me and has a different truck

>>1131290
The socket pictured actually works quite well if you use it properly, and is designed to do what you are saying without fucking one of your sockets, and you can reuse it.

There is no reason to do any of what you just said if the threads are not stripped.

No offense, but you sound like the kinda guy who would install a drain plug with an impact out of sheer "geter duuun BOI".

>>1131389
>heli coil
>junk yard oil pan
Too much beer and too short temper.
(You) yup. Ya got me. Ya found the tator.

>>1131042
there's actually a socket they make now that has cutting teeth. when u turn it the teeth cut into the rounded off bolt. it's kinda like the opposite of an easy out. and on the topic of easy outs, you can always go that route.

If you cant remove a drain plug you have no business touching a tool. Have someone weld a nut to the stripped drain plug, easily remove drain plug then hang yourself

>>1131326
it's a 2014 Ram 5.7L. takes 7 quarts from the factory but i run a bigger filter which brings it closer to 8 quarts.

>>1131389
yep i've used them with success several times. believe a kit with 10 cost me like $20. i've NEVER had one not grab but some bolts are just too stuck to move.

if i'm working on something i don't want to fuck up like an oil pan, lug nuts, calipers ect i always start with the least damaging method and work my way up. last thing you want is to fuck it up and have to go spend a couple hundred on a new oil pan.

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>>1131042
>buy one of these
>leave the drain plug alone
>problem solved forever

>>1131042
leave it and drive it til the engine explodes like every other s10 owner

Stillson wrench and a cheater bar (if you are a pussy).

You are all morons.

There is a way to tighten Vise-Grips which exerts MUCH more force than squeezing the levers.

Lock the Vise-Grips firmly then tighten the adjusting screw veryfuckingfirmly using another pair of Vise-Grips or other suitable tool. Some folks tack weld T-handles to some of their Vise-Grips for the purpose, self included, but you can skip that and just tighten the knob.

When trying to shift stuck hardware with toothy pliers or most anything, make your pull as close to perpendicular to the fastener access as practical so the motion doesn't lift your tool away from the fastener. Move with deliberation, not yanking.

Been there, done that since 1978 on all sorts of vehicles including aircraft because idiots love to overtighten fasteners and I enjoy the challenge of removing them.

Also confirmed six point user. Clean tests are not IRL field maintenance on funky or damaged hardware.

>>1131604
Stillson heads are typically too large and awkward for removing babby drain plugs.

Cheater bars are a good thing for precise manipulation where heaving on a short lever requires sufficient force to disrupt your tool control.

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At this point, I would not bother with any ordinary tools. Get a steel plate about 4mm thick and 40mm wide and 500mm long. Drill a hole at one end so that the mangled hex part fits through. Drive to the nearest shop where they have both a welder and a service lift. Stick the steel plate on the drain plug and have the protruding hex part welded on. Use the other end of the steel plate as a lever, maybe fix an extenson to it. Once the plug rotates, rotate the steel plate as fas as it will go and back several times. Take an angle grinder and grind enough off of the steel plate so that it can rotate freely. Drive home, rotate the plug freely out, and continue as normal. I use aluminium drain plugs and composite hydraulic seals (aluminium ring with rubber insert). These need very low torque to be sealed tight. Also, I recently tested extracting the oil as pic related. Works great, will never mess with drain plugs on my current car.

>>1131648
I just got the image of a daisy chain of dozens of vice grips all attached to on another just to get one plug out

>>1131052
>also, what is helicoil?

this is what I hate about this board. we are all trying so hard to be Mr. Expert that we let shit like this slide by.

If OP has never heard of Google then we should not be spoon feeding him "oh, well, helicoil is this, and blah blah blahl".


help people who have some sense. it's in the sticky. ignore morons who waste our time.

>>1131681
Agreed my man

Just hacksaw a slot in the center and then turn...

>>1131573
Oh shit good call

>>1131042
Jesus Christ.

JUST GET AN AIR HAMMER/AIR CHISEL AND PUT IT ON A BUMP ON THE HEAD OF THAT PLUG, POINT IT COUNTER CLOCKWISE AND GIVR A LITTLE LOVE TAP. It will knock that shit lose.

Never bring out to tap and dye when all you need is a god damn hammer.

>>1131681
Why do you think I told him to just go to the mechanic's instead?

Some Ricky Rattlegun somewhere is gonna catch on fire from all the vitriol he's generated.

>>1131112
I had something similar happen this is the way to go be gentle and tap these mofos on to get a good grip then go to town.

>>1131042
Several people in this thread posted about Irwin bolt-grip Bolt Extractors. (amazon https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-HANSON-BOLT-GRIP-Extractor-394001/dp/B0000CCXVZ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1487216937&sr=8-1&keywords=irwin+bolt+extractor+set&linkCode=ll1&tag=egreene-quora-20&linkId=223638c45dc5305d691e85dfe5551c3d )
They really are fantastic, and I'd swear by my set.

You don't have to get them from Amazon, my set, the one pictured at the link, came from Advance auto parts. They hammer onto the stripped bolt and then you attach a ratchet or breaker bar to spin them out.

Fantastic tools, really they are.

I still think the air chisel works best if the bolt is already fucked. BRRRRRRRAT BRRRRRRRAT BRRRRRRRAT and the bolt is halfway off.

All this talk of gimmicky tools, grinding, cutting, or tapping is the kind of shit that city workers talk about. JUST GET THE DAMN THING OFF AS FAST AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT DAMAGING ANYTHING.

>>1132058
Also, welding shit onto it????? Are you all fucking out of your minds??? It's an oil pan. Fuck. Seeing as you can't change your own oil, I assume your father never taught you about welding on oil pans

>>1132060
a few milliliters of the oil you're about to throw away will get hot enough to smoke
wow so scary

>>1132072
>hot enough to smoke
Not that anon, but the heat from welding is much more than you think.
Think fire, think flames.

You obviously have never dealt with an oil fire or explosion.

>>1132060
You can TACK weld a nut to a plug, but I'd never weld the sheet metal on a pan. My bro did that and has the plastic surgery and scarring to prove it. He was young and his dumbfuck redneck boss knew no better.

I'd skip the outer surface of the plug hex head then tack a large nut through the center of the nut and be quick about it.

>>1132072
If the plug is stuck in place IM GONNA ASSUME ITS STILL FULL

>>1132101
Just no. Just no. Fuck. At most, cut a notch in it. Don't fucking grind or weld on that shit. It's smarter to JUST NOT.

Use a gimmicky tool or use a air chisel. Just don't produce sparks.

>>1131046
There's your problem, you should be turning it in the left direction

>>1132094
>Think fire, think flames.
think there's much oxygen at the bottom of a full oil sump?
think that the surface of a gallon of oil will exceed 400F because of the heat input of a five second weld being laid on the far side of an inch-thick steel drain plug?


i mean yeah, making a weld repair on the thin sheet steel of a drained (but not cleaned) sump pan will start a fire, but that's not what we're talking about here.

>>1132133
Think of the oil leak near the pan. Think of all that oil on everything down there.

I'm not saying explosions, I'm saying THINK FIRE. On the 50/50 chance a fire starts, the chance it will spread AND PROCEED TO FRY YOUR WIRING AND FUEL LINES around the area you're working in.

Is it that hard to imagine the pain in the ass it would be to fix shit after a minor fire under your car?

Kys.

>>1132133
The fact that you don't know how the oil system works doesn't surprise me.
There's a reason they have breathers, because most of the volume above the sump is filled with air.

>>1132135
your fears are irrational.

>>1132142
light the gas burner under the frying pan; why isn't all the cooking oil instantly on fire?

>>1131042
Make a cut into the bolt with a hacksaw or grinder. You want the cut to be across the center of the bolt.
Make the cut wide enough so that you can apply torque with a long arm that fits as snuggly as possible in the cut.
Then replace the bolt.

Anyone have any info on whether it's a good idea to copper paste on oil drain bolts like these? It does wonders against seizing bolts, just wondering if some could get into the engine.

>>1132112
What are you mad? If he can't get enough leverage to unscrew it with a mole grips then a notch and a screw driver will be passing in the wind.

I think abandoning the plug and sucking everything out through the dips tick is the best bet

>>1132133
If he hasn't any of the other tools, nor the knowledge to loosen this shit, he definitely hasn't a welder nor the know how to operate one. You dummies saying to weld on a nut are on another planet from the welding fumes


>>1132161
I somehow doubt he has anything to apply torque in such a a direction

>>1132156
>comparing the heat of a gas burner to the heat of an arc welder.

retard pls go.

>2017
>Using oil drain plugs
Just get an oil extractor pump man. Suck that shit out and do it that way.

>>1131042

apply pen oil, give the plug some firm taps with a hammer, or firmer taps if you have a copper mallet or something instead, repeat this a few times, then use a torch to heat the plug and then hammer on a socket and get out your breaker bar

>>1131767

this is a good suggestion too, i have broken a lot of bolts loose by using a hammer and punch

File: welding.jpg (88KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

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>>1132094
One thing is for sure: Welding on the drain plug is not going to start a fire inside the oil pan, or an explosion, or any of that.
>>1133728
First of all, the thermal energy delivered by a gas burner and an arc welder could be absolutely comparable. If you concentrated the heat of the saucer-sized area of a gas burner to a square inch or so, you would be able to melt steel as well. So the effective amount of thermal energy delivered is comparable.
The question is: How much thermal energy do you have to deliver to the gallon or two of engine oil to make it reach it's flash point? It' a lot, and a lot more than an arc welder can deliver even if it was operated 10s of seconds at a time.Proof:
You have to heat up 3.5kg of oil with a thermal capacity of 2100J/(kg*K) from 20°C to 80°C, which is the absolutely lowest point at which oil can ignite. You would need 441000J for that
You have a welder with 6kW, which is rediculously powerful.
You would need 73.5s of continous welder operation.
More than a minute straight overpowered welding with all the heat going into the oil, and after that it only has 80°C.
Science just proved that you cannot ignite the oil inside a filled oil pan by welding on the outside when the circumstances discussed here are applied. Thanks, science.

>>1133950
>Not taking into account basic thermodynamics
>not remembering that gas cooking is subject to many losses, making the final applied heat not comparable to a welding arc, where something like 60-90% of the thermal energy is put into the material
>implying methane (natural gas) or propane are hot enough to melt steel on their own
>ignoring the fact that rarely if ever do materials heat up evenly, and the fact that you only need to over heat a little bit of the substance to create a problem.
>thinking you have to heat the entire pan to the detonation point to cause an explosion.

A few hundred people die every year by welding "just a little bit" on filled oil containers, usually similar to, if not motor oil.
There are several properties of physics you are ignoring just to prove your bias.
I'm not claiming that an oil pan that is welded will ALWAYS explode, but the risk is real, and it has happened.

I never said the oil pan would instantaneously detonate, and I'm pretty sure no-one else did either. Most hot-work incidents involving flammables happen minutes into, or after the work has been done.

Hank Green, pls go. You can't over-exaggerate the opposition's position, ignore several key thermodynamic principals, and then act like "science is on my side".

>>1132060
Clearly you're a mong

>>1132112
>implying a few sparks are gonna ignite motor oil

Stop commenting please

Borrow a stick welder and weld a decent sized nut onto the plug, then use correctly sized spanner or socket to remove. Heat generated by welding the nut will have aided your struggle

Ignore the tard that thinks you're going to ignite the oil in your sump. You won't. He's just spouting bullshit when he clearly has no idea and has zero experience.

Op did you pussy out and go to a mechanic?

Answer please before abandoning thread due to
>>1133950
And
>>1134049

>>1131112
What are these called?

>>1134092
http://m.sears.com/craftsman-10-pc-damaged-bolt-nut-remover-set-low/p-00952166000P

>>1131238

Although the prices are different, that's what I found when I had a new vehicle. It was 35 for the oil change at the dealer and like 25 or 30 to buy oil and filter and you get all the extras by having them do it...I had a 4wd and liked to rotate tires every oil change. As much as I hated taking it to the dealer I also have experience with them being assholes when they need to make a warranty repair, if you do the work at the dealership they have all the info already.

>>1131042
I deal with this problem frequently. You need to use a punch and hammer, make a notch with the punch in the plug as close to the edge as you can, and hit it in the direction to loosen it. Works every time.

>>1131084
>keep soaking it in oil
you understand this is a sump plug m'lady?

>>1134049
Please explain to me, which "basic thermodynamics" did I not take into account? If you heat up a single point of the bottom of a container filled with a liquid, convection will occur, resulting in a nearly even heat distribution. If this was not the case, immersion heaters would not work. As such, it would only be possible to overheat a bit of the substance if the welding took place on the container wall near the surface of the oil, but not when you are welding at the deepest point possible. Also, take into account that my example was about a minute of continous welding. When welding in little 2-5sec intervals, it is even more harmless.
Welding accidents with flammable fumes can happen, no doubt, but only when the welding heat is able to directly contact the fumes. So it would be dangerous to weld on an empty oil pan with oil residues in it, which could be easily ignited when a singel spot is heated. But when the whole welding spot is deeply submerged in oil, the oil acts as a coolant, and bringing it to a flash point would require serious work, much more than just tack welding.

>>1134378
You are assuming motor oil has a comparable thermal conductivity and thermal mass to water, which is not true. If it was we would use oil as the motor coolant as well. Your model also ignores the fact that oil is more viscous than water to a large degree.
The difference between a immersion heater or cooking flame and an arc welder, is how fast the heat is applied.
In the same time it would take an arc welder to heat a piece of metal hot enough to burn through leather, it would take an immersion heater or gas flame to cause said material to get hot enough to cause moderate skin burns.
You are attempting to compare apples to oranges, simply because the energy in the apple is comparable to the orange.

Your model assumes everything is ideal. Nothing personal but you sound like a physics major or an engineer with no on-the-job experience. You are assuming that the oil will simply conduct heat well enough to negate the effect of the welding arc.
Typically, when it comes to designing safety practices, you generally assume the worst that can happen, will happen, even if the numbers and theory say it's practically impossible, things change in real life.

People have died tack welding on full oil pans before. It was a highly improbable situation, but it happened, despite the theory saying it wouldn't.

>>1134470
Different anon here, and not commenting on the rest of your post, but:
>If it was we would use oil as the motor coolant as well

It IS used as coolant, just not the only coolant. Some cars (including mine specifically) have oil coolers that have a significant impact on engine temperature by circulating the oil through small radiators.

>>1134470
Jesus fucking christ you're dumb.

I literally have no words

>>1134470
>highly improbable situation, but it happened
how about you cite a source for that horseshit

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>>1134470
>You are assuming motor oil has a comparable thermal conductivity and thermal mass to water
No I did not. Oil has a thermal capacity around 2000J/(kg*K), water has double the amount. Look which value I used in my calculation.
But let us assume that the heated drain plug is really able to bring the oil very close to it to it's flash point. Still nothing would happen, as the hot oil is still covered under at least 4 inches or so of cooler oil, and the cooler oil prevents oxygen from reaching the hot oil. Even if the hot drain plug was hot enough to create oil vapors, they would rise to the top through layers of cooler oil, and when the oil vapors finally reach the surface, they are not hot enough to ignite any more. To be extra safe, I'd buy several hands full of dry ice, and put them into the engine via the oil filler cap opening. CO2 is heavier than air, so it will sink down inside the engine and displace the air and oxygen there, further reducing the already low risk of fire.
Here's an example where welding worked just fine:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/32011-Help-Welding-a-nut-to-oil-drain-plug/page2?s=bd2fa483b7cdeabf95e0949d9a806786

And, while researching that matter, I found OP's drain plug:
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/stuck-oil-drain-plug-400170/index2.html#post4188882

And guess how it was finally removed:
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/stuck-oil-drain-plug-400170/index4.html#post4193674
>So I bought a 19mm grade 8 bolt and took it to a shop that welded it on for $10. Without a lot of effort the plug broke free and he tightened it enough so I could get home.

Pic related.

Apply penetrating oil, drink a few beers
Weld a socket on
Drink a few beers while it cools
If you can't weld, fill a socket with cold steel and press it on. Drink a few beers while it hardens.
Spray it with that freeze off stuff.
Don't drink a few beers, no time for that now.
Remove nut.

I've done this a couple times. I failed to remove the nut but I did get lit. Good luck.

File: jack bolt thug.jpg (940KB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

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>>1131042

Remove motor mount bolts jack up engine until dents hood. Cut bottom of oil pan off with cutting torch. Weld another half of a good oil pan on and rattle can to look like new